129 Comments

>Was signing Wiggins really the death of the Warriors future?

Turns out, no.

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Mar 19, 2021Liked by Daniel Hardee

Just saw this great article!

As for this:

>>> Wiggins has been average, at best [at MIN]. A replacement-level NBA player.

I don't usually browse stat tables for the heck of it, but I finally took a look at PER and was surprised to find that Steph was the only Warrior above 15, the definition of average. Wiseman was just below at 14 something and Wiggins was 13 something.

No doubt there's flaws with PER, but since I've enjoyed Wiggs this year, it surprised me.

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The most encouraging part of the 3 Wiggins games had to be the offense running through Green. A staggered rest for Steph with Green, Klay, Wiggins, Chriss, Looney/Poole line ups would be really interesting to watch. I loved seeing Green revitalized on offense and wish they would have gotten a Wiggins type player for Dlo sooner. We were completely wasting Green’s skillset when guys didn’t cut off ball. And Wiggins actually attempting to play D gives us a D that has Steph playing passing lanes and grabbing FT line rebounds, Klay and Wiggins running with their man on the perimeter all day, Green at free safety, and Chriss at strong safety. That could be super fun on D too.

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“Don’t screenshot me bro” AHAHHA

I just don’t want to make the same mistake I did at the start of this season, when I believed everyone who was saying that the Warriors sucked so bad because their roster was dismantled and once WCS plays, they’d start “winning games”. It kinda feels the same way with this “once Steph, Klay, and James Wiseman play with Draymond and Andrew Wiggins, they’ll win next season” talk that almost every Warriors fan on YouTube or Twitter has been using. Like, I simply don’t wanna believe that they’ll win a championship next season just because this player X is finally gonna play with players A, B, C, and D. It doesn’t help stagger my belief either how Andre Iguodala basically said the same thing as Warriors fans did, in his Heat v Warriors speech, “They’re going to wreak havoc on the league for 80 games” (although he may have just been exaggerating). So as much as I have hope for Wiggins’ player development, I don’t want to use that as a blanket assurance for anything next season.

PS. I am new to basketball/NBA in general. Learning everything from watching the Warriors and reading articles.

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Came here from a link at GSOM - thanks! GSOM lives!

Anyway, my hot take on Wiggins was about the same as DDDs - OMFG are you kidding me! After I had a chance to calm down, and see him do OK in an extremely small sample size (3 games), here's my lukewarm take on Wiggins:

1. Since Durant was leaving anyway, we basically swapped Iguadola, who is old and was overpaid, for Wiggins, who is young and even more overpaid, a high draft pick and a 17MM trade exception. Not too shabby.

2. Despite Wiggins being overpaid, the front office avoided the repeater tax, which will more than make up for Wiggins' high salary.

3. Remember when Wiggins was entering the draft, and the teams that were tanking were "riggin' for Wiggins"? He was supposed to be a future all-NBA guy, or at least a perennial all-star. I think if he'd been drafted at say 15 or 18, and was making 10MM a year, and taking D'Lo out of the equation, we'd be like, "Yahoo, we got Wiggins! He's a perfect fit positionally, and he can hit open corner threes all day!" But since he went #1, he's considered a bust.

4. And yeah, he's a reclamation project. Can he play smarter? Can he learn to play half-decent defense? Can he play off-ball? If so, we've got a winner on our hands. And one of the reasons I fell in love with this Warriors team was because they were all underdogs - remember the scouting reports on Steph, Klay and Draymond? They were all expected to be role players at best. Wiggins is the opposite - if he can turn into the new Harrison Barnes, and we get a high draft pick, this will start looking like a GREAT trade.

Anyway, SO glad I found this site as I needed (obviously) to vent...

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Welcome to LGW!

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A small-ball lineup of Steph, Klay, Wiggins, Okoro, and Green would be a lot of fun to watch. And if Poole continues honing his playmaking, that opens up some longer second-unit lineups with a 6'5" shooting guard at the point.

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Warriors stats before the All-Star Break:

Offense:

26 in points scored (106.3)

30 in points in paint (42.8)

11 in fastbreak points (13.9)

29 in offensive efficiency

30 in shooting % (43.3%)

26 in three point % (34.1%)

30 in two point % (48.2%)

23 in off. rebound % (21.4%)

23 in def. rebound % (76.0%)

29 in total rebound % (47.9%)

17 in opponent blocks (5.1)

27 in opponent steals (8.3)

12 in assists (25.2)

16 in turnovers (14.7)

Defense:

24 in points allowed (114.7)

19 in opponent points in paint (49.1)

24 in opponent fastbreak points (14.5)

23 in defensive efficiency

24 in opponent shooting % (47.5%)

29 in opponent three point % (38.3%)

22 in opponent two point % (53.4%)

21 in blocks (4.7)

6 in steals!!!!!!!!! (8.5)

29 in opponent assists (26.0)

4 in opponent turnovers!!!!!!!!!!! (15.9)

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Also Daniel I need to find out more about your illustrations! Fab!

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author

thanks! It's all the power of photoshop filters. there's a billion tutorials on youtube but I liked this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phl48dTE1KI

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The Wolves had some success post-Butler playing Wiggins at the 2, with Taj Gisbon and RoCo covering for KAT's defense (they were actually above .500 with that line up in a limited amount of games). But they also had to cover for Teague's defense as well, and of course this is not an option for the Dubs (and doesn't need to be, with Dray's defense, although a fairly mobile, shot-blocking 5 would be nice. Maybe Chriss could grow into that role, or more likely Wiseman if they decide to go there - although he might not be good enough - or an FA or trade-exception player).

Maybe EricApricot (or someone else) could do a special trade edition "explain another team's play" which illustrates how Wiggins (mostly unsuccessfully) tried to cope with the increasing lack of interior rim protection and perimeter defense, and how the Warriors might be able to best utilize (or hide) him.

One thing is certain, though, Wiggins is going to be really really tested on defense against the Rockets in the 1st game after the break. It's perhaps unfair to him to face a 5-out offense with new teammates and a new defensive system, but it's good to get the experience now, rather than when it counts (Lacob was definitely right about that, although the not-waiting-to-the-offseason aspect of the trade will be debated for a long time if the Warriors' off-season doesn't go to plan.)

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Feb 14, 2020Liked by Eric Apricot, punk basketball, Daniel Hardee

Fun with Player A / Player B...

(Per 36 minutes)

Player A

======

• 6'-9", 7'-1" wingspan, born July 1997 (22 y.o.)

• Former #14 pick, athletic freak who dunks all day (2.4 dunks per 36)

• 16.5 pts on .613 ts / .681 ft / 10.8 reb / 5.1 ast / 1.3 stl / 1.2 blk

Player B

======

• 6'-9", 7'-1" wingspan, born July 1997 (22 y.o.)

• Former #8 pick, athletic freak who dunks all day (2.9 dunks per 36)

• 16.3 pts on .596 ts / .756 ft / 10.7 reb / 3.2 ast / 1.2 stl / 2.0 blk

Hint: Player A is "The Perfect Center for the Modern NBA" (per 538) and "The Fiercest Best Player NBA You Don't Know" (per Zach Lowe). Player B is a walk-on scrub who was released by the crummy Warriors and allowed to clear waivers by 29 other teams before returning.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/bam-adebayo-is-the-perfect-center-for-the-modern-nba/

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28678382/bam-adebayo-fiercest-best-nba-player-know

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Player B is a ridiculous find for us. A player of his level for free is has been a revelation in this dim year.

There's some big differences though. Player A moves his feet really well, he get's switched to constantly (per your ref) and still posts a stellar DRPM. He also is a fantastic screener, with great dribble handoff #s (538). And all those assists!

Still, I'm grateful we have Chriss in our time of misfortune. I'm so glad he's starting instead of WCS, Deyonta Davis or even Damion Jones. Just think if he ever get's his jumper consistent!

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Damian Jones is getting a bunch of PT, though RPM thinks his D is some of the worst in the league...given he's 24, cutting bait on him was probably a wise move.

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I definitely remember thinking, Damian Jones just could not seen to get the gears to click into motion, and then seeing Chriss was like... "Oh! That's what that was supposed to look like!"

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19m not exactly a bunch ;)

He gets no rebounds or blocks. Seems like his help D or changed shots would have to be stellar for his defense to register.

I liked him, but he's always been a long shot and we're lucky so far to come across Chriss.

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Adebayo does have 26 lbs on 'Quese. Not sure if it's befitting his game or not, but if it can be integrated into his flow, would love to see Chriss bulk up a little.

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And learn to move his feet better, understand passing angles better, screen a bit better--just basketball fundamentals stuff. He occasionally makes me yell with frustration and surprised joy on the same play.

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Feb 14, 2020Liked by punk basketball

How do you do it? Fascinating.

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My recent worst take: Believing in WCS and insisting that playing for a better franchise would result in consistent effort and intensity.

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Feb 14, 2020Liked by Eric Apricot, punk basketball, Daniel Hardee

Hey, just want to remind people to Heart up these articles if you enjoy them. These writers went out on a limb for us, so let's try to get them more exposure, k?

I've linked a few articles to my personal, real name FB page and will continue to do so to get anyone who loves the Dubs over here. Doesn't take much effort, but us hardcore fans doing a bit like that can make or break a new endeavor like this.

So, if you appreciate the hard work and dedication put in, if you like the articles, if you want to show Dub Nation pride, let's get this spot on the social media map.

P.S. This was totally unprompted by anybody (I don't communicate privately with any of the staff) and comes entirely from my appreciation for the community here, especially the reporters, writers, editors, etc. whose sweat and toil have built this from the smoldering ash-heap of Vox Media...entirely for our reading pleasure. :)

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author

Well said! and thank you!!

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Feb 14, 2020Liked by punk basketball, Daniel Hardee

I'm pretty much a lurker nowadays but I love this community from GSOM. Have my hearts!

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Animated gif avatar = 🔥🔥🔥!

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It was such an exciting time! Can't wait for upcoming seasons.

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Feb 14, 2020Liked by Eric Apricot, Daniel Hardee

Well said! Yeah, this is such a great leap of faith this group took to carry on this community. It is exciting watching it grow, but getting the word out is important.

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author

You're awesome , thanks for this!!

Yes, the shares help, and your appreciation warms the spreadsheet that serves as my heart.

I was a power user at GSOM long before I was staff, so for me the main reward here has been about not letting Vox wreck our community by firing everyone and turning into a series of 250 word posts with no soul.

Deeply thankful as a community member, and a site author for everyone that is reading and participating here!!

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I dunno if I'm a power-user, but I did apply for a job a few years back. Sadly...sadly...and me living in Asia was doubtless part of the decision...I did not get the job.

Maybe someday, though I don't have time now. :)

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Feb 14, 2020Liked by Eric Apricot, punk basketball, Daniel Hardee

I'll definitely heart up!

I'd gotten out of the practice after SBN removed REC for the article. Didn't even realize it was now an option on this new platform.

Hearts to all writers!

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Feb 14, 2020Liked by Daniel Hardee

DDD, is coloring super-hearted comments high on the list of wants with substack? I ask because I think a new person coming here would be impressed by that. Yeah, it's straight out of the SBN playbook, but it is a really neat kind of shorthand for valuable commentary.

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Feb 14, 2020Liked by punk basketball

I'd love to see the whole super-hearted=colored comment thing come back, definitely.

But ehh, whatever. My priority is to do what I can to keep this site going because I like the comment and I love the community.

Ain't too many Warriors' fans in Saigon, and I'm probably going to move to the far side of the country because that's where my backers want me to start a new school...and there will be like 1 Warriors' fan in the city of 650,000 there.

So we *have* to keep this going, please, for the sake of my sanity and my future as an obnoxiously wealthy person (who can give big donations to this site) please...keep hope alive in LGW so my $$$ can thrive. Or something nearly like that.

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I need this place too. We will do all we can, Matt!

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"like the articles and love the community"

Say, you know what else would be great? An edit function on comments.

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I believe it's called the reply button 😂

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author

haha IDK exactly what Substack's priorities are.

We basically give them a list of wants and needs, and they reply back with "short term" "maybe some day" or "probably not"

They did "ooh" a little bit when we showed them the rec to green feature though, so I am sure they're into it.

We gotta be flexible with them because they already invented some new features just for us (multiple authors, comments for non-subscribers). They are an awesome partner for us here so far, so we have to give them slack when it comes to timelines for specific features. My sense is that if we stick around they'll get to most of our list eventually.

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Feb 14, 2020Liked by Eric Apricot, punk basketball

I've been using this I threw together:

https://hastebin.com/raw/zipaxaciwi

To make it work, I created a bookmark and put it in the toolbar. Then replaced the url field with the code. Every time I open the comment section, I hit the button in the toolbar and it highlights all the comments with 4+ likes.

The number and the color can be changed in the code. I have it at 4 and the color as the same one from GSOM.

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Damn, man, that's awesome. I know sweet FA about coding these days (now that is a skill I wish I had kept up with--that and MMA) so I don't know if this is amazingly clever or obvious, but all the same, it seems amazingly clever to me.

Have a heart!

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author

Wow, brilliant, I never even thought about JS bookmark hacks for this site.... I have to think out some ideas. Maybe there could be a semi-official Bookmark

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Wow that works beautifully!

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Feb 14, 2020Liked by punk basketball

What it looks like for people wondering:

https://imgur.com/a/jAmqlTe

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imagine the ooh's if you could make it GOLD:

https://i.imgur.com/chqbGGo.jpg

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Feb 14, 2020Liked by punk basketball

And my sense is that if LGW is getting this much traffic now, it should receive big boosts in March from Steph returning and from the official date of Vox nonsense kicking in! So, no ifs, my friend ;-)

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author

yeah, we really could not have picked a worse time to launch a new Warriors-centric platform... but yeah, Steph comes back in early March (which was our initial launch window), and then a rip roaring offseason should kick us into the next gear

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So can we trade this dude and our picks for Zion? Zion is becoming must-watch TV at a crazy rate.

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I'm totally certain the Pels would go for that in a heartbeat...if we included Steph and Klay.

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Feb 14, 2020Liked by Daniel Hardee

Wiggins net on/off, last five seasons: +6.7, +3.1, +4.1, +1.6, +3.8

To me that doesn't look that much like a guy "actively causing his team to lose games."

Russell net on/off, last five seasons: -5.2, -4.7, -4.9, +0.7, -5.6

That looks more like what MB's talking about.

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Also known as the "Karl Anthony-Towns is good at basketball" statistic. :)

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Basketball is nuanced my man. I talk a lot of shit about KAT because he's not a championship player. You NEED to play D at big man and he just doesn't do it. But at the same time he's a legitimately incredible offensive player and that can't be denied, and it shows up in something like on/off for a teammate that spends almost all his minutes on the court with KAT. KAT is good, it's just that he should be great. Dude seriously has everything in place to be a top 10 player of all-time. He should be Tim Duncan, and it's frustrating to watch him be....not Tim Duncan.

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Yeah playing with KAT is probably why Wiggins' RPM doesn't match his net on/off

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author

That's a tough angle though

> He should be Tim Duncan, and it's frustrating

Like shooting threes well, defense is about a lot more than just knowing where to put your feet and how to hold your arms.

Not every player will have every talent and it's not fair to presume that certain skill sets are easier to learn than others.

And it doesn't always wreck a player (I am pretty high on Bem Simmons, even without him developing a 3 ball). But like you are saying, KAT's problem is that he's so SO bad defensively.

But I'd say he wouldn't even need to turn into Tim Dumcan. If he could even get to Marquese Chriss territory it would change the whole franchise

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The thing is KAT showed some nice defensive flashed as a rookie, and things have just gone downhill since then.

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Also, I dunno why so many of you guys seem to think Chriss is a solid defensive player. Dude is not very good at defense...

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But you don't think Klay is good at defense either, right?

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Feb 14, 2020Liked by punk basketball

Chriss, for me so far, has been kinda like JaVale. He can have really good stretches (or even games, depending on the matchup), but other times, he either misses rebounds or goes for a block at the wrong time and either gives up an easy basket or fouls. Like JaVale, neither of these seem to be from lack of effort, maybe just bad instinct. But Chriss is very young compared to JaVale when we got him, so there's plenty of time for Ron Adams to work his magic. At worst, Chriss is a decent backup, especially during the regular season.

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author

I have many, many worse takes.

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Feb 14, 2020Liked by punk basketball

Enjoyed the exchange, between Duby and Daniel/Eric. I remember when Duby was down on the trade; I just didn't want to comment. Frankly, I thought then, as I do now, Wiggins was the perfect wing for our offense! Though his game was not really pushed to superstar level in Minnesota, he definitely has star quality and superstar potential. I think with Steph and Klay taking some of the heat off him, and Green's savvy on offensive creation, Wiggins is going to be that awesome 3rd scorer when needed! my concern remains the front line, as it looks like the road to the Finals will be through Lakers the next year or two...If we can figure a way to keep Wiggins and get lucky with best center out of the draft, we may be able to solve my concern...

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Feb 14, 2020Liked by punk basketball

Eh, I think you have a pretty thick pair of rose colored glasses on. Even if the fit is good and will help improve Wiggins game and possibly even make him a nice offensive player, let's not sugar coat things. Wiggins has been really bad in Minnesota. He's shown some serious downsides, too. Again, we're talking about a dude 2 years removed from leading a team with KAT and Jimmy Butler in FGA's. He's shown very little ability as a playmaker. He's not that good a shooter - not nearly as good as he thinks. He doesn't make great decisions with the ball. His problems are not all situational. Cutting off the ball is great for our offense. We do need someone to attack the rim more, to get to the line. His shooting numbers should go up with better quality looks. So yeah, there are some good things, but you sound like you think it's all going to be good things...there are definite downsides, and that's not even addressing the D, which has always been the most important part of the equation to me.

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author

It's just...a max contract for a player who is either average, or slightly below average that was killing me.

If he can keep playing like he has been, I'll be more than happy to be super wrong about this move.

Also, I've learned and grown in the past week. I'm more mature now and can see that maybe Wiggins on his deal isn't too drastic of a value discrepancy from DLo

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Feb 14, 2020Liked by Daniel Hardee

A bit more on the Lakers, because that is what we will be up against if we want to get out of the West. I am totally impressed with their depth on the frontcourt. McGee, a role-accepting Howard, and Davis are all athletic rip-protectors with the ability to score inside. Throw in a savvy LBJ into the mix, who knows what to do with them, and it presents a real challenge for our frontcourt, even if Chriss plays out of his mind. Looney is now doubtful, and the rest of our frontline is just too small to handle them methinks.

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Yeah. But I’m thinking very good small ball would expose too much McGee and Howard usage. Wiggins is the perfect wing body style to play against the Lakers. We just need depth and smarts. I’m still hoping there is a way to get Dre back to the Bay.

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Houston did it for one game, but the issue is a series. Can't surprise people 5 games in a row that easily.

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