Traded Alec Burks and Glenn Robinson to the Philadelphia 76ers for a 2020 2nd round draft pick, a 2021 2nd round draft pick and a 2022 2nd round draft pick. (2020 second-round pick is DAL's pick) (2021 second-round pick is DEN's pick) (2022 second-round pick is TOR's pick)
I also want to believe. The Ringer article offered some hope. The proof will be in the defense. He's got the athleticism and the body; let's see if he has the resolve.
Great Kawakami article in The Athletic. I’ve been thinking all through this that culture is really difficult to build, tougher to sustain, and really, really fragile, unless Curry continues to hold it all together. Kawakami used the word “reckless.”
Ok, just spitballing here, but maybe we're targeting Griffin? The Pistons are almost certainly going to try to dump him, but where's the market for that? He's under contract until 2021 and has a $38.9 million player option that he'll almost certainly exercise for 2021-22 season, so not many contenders are going to even be able to entertain it, and no one building their team is hitching their star to that.
Meanwhile, the contract only has one year extra and, that aside, is actually worse than Wiggins' contract from Detroit's perspective, as it's more money per year and Griffin is a much better player, so worse when it comes to tanking good and proper, which they'll need to be doing now.
Maybe our FO's calculus is that we can actually keep some of those picks or flip them for an additional pick after a deal like that, and still be able to turn Wiggins into a useful piece?
Now that Wiggins is one of us,I’m all for it. ( Can’t help it. I’m a fan).
The fantasy is the Warriors culture can teach and motivate another lost athlete. Can he turn into an above average defender with spot up 3s in the high 30s%? Can he learn to move in Kerr’s system? Why not?
I am a fan of Steph, Klay and Dray.
I’m all in with Steve, Bob and Joe.
If they get us back to the finals next year without the Greek, by cobbling together (some very good) MLEs, and by trading some picks for a sixth man using the TPE (does that work with the cap / apron?) there will be NO DOUBT those six make up the core of the best basketball team ever. It will make tiny the Durant asterisk. (I like Kevin, but I didn’t like that his presence distracted from the greatness of our original core.)
(3/3) I feel the Warriors had to take a gamble with the Wolves' pick, even if Wiggins sucks still (I'm not convinced he can't at least be a bit better than league average on both sides of the ball, but it's a good bet that most people are right and he's unsalvageable). Sometimes, all it takes is one player to keep a dynasty going. Is Wiseman or the Wolves 2021 or 2022 pick going to be Kawhi? Almost certainly not. But the Dubs have the Splash brothers and Dray, so the margin for error is bigger.
Essentially, the Warriors are gambling that 4+ yrs (+ RFA, so potentially much longer) of a good player outweigh 2+ established contributors that are only there for 1 year. I’m not so sure about that. Contenders need good, veteran role players, and Wiggins might not be able to even start in the playoffs. But maybe the Warriors either think that the FA/buyout market is weak next year, or (more probably) think that a veteran wing will be available cheaply.
If the Dubs didn’t have a top pick this year, the calculus might have been different. But 2 good picks have a decent chance of producing one good player that can be in the rotation even when Curry declines. Either way, FA’s want to play with the splash brothers. Maybe the Warriors recruiting power can overcome the Wiggins-induced lack of flexibility.
Or maybe they wanted to give Ron Adams a huge test of his abilities.
Edit per Badly Browned, below: okay make it the taxpayer MLE rather than the full MLE. They'll still be highly motivated to spend the whole thing; and guys like Favors and Marc Gasol may still be available at the price, given the fallow market in the league for true centers.
(2/3) But . . . if we're going to be the Spurs, we're going to be smart with contracts. LaMarcus Aldrige was a star in Portland, and was great when SA acquired him. He's basically a very tall Livingston, when he gets hot from mid-range, he can score at will. So even though mid-range is on the down-swing in the NBA (or out, if you're Houston), he was vaulable, although I'd argue that his signing, not that long after the Spurs rained 3's in the finals, started their decline.
I think the Spurs did probably the best they could when traded Kahwi. Poeltl isn't bad by any means, and they had no leverage. They only got a very low 1st rounder (where they could've taken Paschall :) ), and took DeRozan's contract.
DeRozan is way, way better than Wiggins, but he's a bad fit for the Spurs, because with LaMarcus, too, they've had to double down on mid-range. Also, DeMar's contract (2 more years at DLo money) is hurting the Spurs flexability as they try to claw their way back to the playoffs.
Wiggins' contract is going to hurt for at least the next 2 years, making it practically imperative that the Wolves' first and second both hit on at least solid players (you can get two very good role players or even starters for a combined $27+ mil). Luckily, one of those picks should be 20-25 places higher than the Spurs' Raptors pick, but it's not even close to sure thing.
Then I read the posts about defense and decision making and man-purses and I ran back to TEAM NO WIGGINS.
But I am now firmly in the TEAM WIGGINS camp for two reasons:
One he has WINS in his name (and IGGI for that matter) and Two he has played for crap teams, he has an 8'11" standing reach (WTF?) he is athletic, the thought of him and Paschall trading off slashing to the basket is like releasing a gazelle and a bull in the streets of Pamplona.
That is more than two but I will keep going: I never saw Dlo long term after the first few months of watching him play. I can envision WIggiNS crashing the middle to open up the outside. The guy is considered likeable just a bit aloof and unmotivated. Spellman came to us with less of a resume and even though he initially rejected a Janet Jackson date with Draymond, he eventually turned into the definition of hustle. Maybe the Maple Jordan will follow suit. Or maybe he wont and he will always fail to live up to his potential. Whatever happens, the rest of this year will be fun. Hopefully Steph finds a reason to sit and cheer, Smiley goes Super Saiyan, and the rest of this team plays with energy and joy for the remainder of the year.
(1/3) I'm actually liking the trade less from a short-term perspective and more from a long-term perpective the more I think about it.
I'm convinced that the combination of a mid-to-high lottery pick in a good draft + long-term relief from the repeater tax + less pressure on Dray (meaning less wear-and-tear long-term) + a max slot (even if it's untradable now) might be better than adding solid pieces (probably on 1+1 deals) and trying to eke out a 4 or 5 seed (even if Curry hadn't gotten hurt, Klay's absence still would've really hurt) by really putting in a good effort. I mean, a title this year was always unlikely, anyway, might as well s&t DLo and try to get some future assets. A pressure-less year is going to be so good for everyone down the road after 5 straight of not just great achievement, but a lot of pressure and wear-and-tear. If we're really going to try and be the Spurs, long-term is the goal anyway.
As someone suggested on Reddit, our final piece has to be Jeremy Lin. The CBA season got coronavirus-canceled and our homeboy is out of a job. A Curry Lin back court would sell out every seat of Chase Center for the remainder of the season.
Lol. Amazing stuff as always, Eric. I lol'd at "ok, wait there is a Wiggins in here."
With the initial shock of this deal calming down (and the chicken littles on GSoM presumably changing their diapers) I think some observers are still underplaying the financial angle.
Yeah, Lacob will *probably* be able to feed his family either way, but the amount this trade is going to save the franchise on repeater taxes — particularly with the high draft pick this year — is damn-near incalculable. Any cap mavens who want to try to calculate, go crazy, but remember: we're not just talking about next season but the compounding seasons afterwards. My general sense is that when once it's all over and done with, this cute li'l "cap-ducking" exercise may yield somewhere near a nine-figure savings.
How does that affect the on-court product we give a crap about, you say? Well, without those compounding 3x penalties looming over their heads, we can be pretty sure Lacob and co. will be motivated to spend like drunken sailors this offseason. That $17M Iguodala TPE now looks eminently usable, as does the full $10M non-taxpayer MLE (s/o to Chris for reminding me we that have to play with now; can't even remember the last time we did). Say ... JJ Redick and Derrick Favors, anyone?
If the DLo/Wiggins performance difference ends up anywhere close to a wash, this is a huge win for GS, imho, since on top of the $$ relief they also got a (likely) high first-round pick in a putatively stacked draft. I still think DLo has marginally better market value, and some untapped upside that running P&R and pick-and-pop all day with his BFF Towns will help unlock; but then I think you could say the same about Wiggins becoming more of a slasher/cutter/dunker alongside Splash.
Meanwhile, call me a shameless fanboy — you won't be far off — but I'm actually kinda looking forward to the breakneck, uptempo game they're gonna run all day with their newly-minted Bowman-Lee-Wiggins-Green-Chriss starting 5 (with a bench of Paschall, Looney, Poole, Smailagic, Toscano-Anderson, Norvell). It'll be brick-tastic, but I suspect they'll run a couple of late-season tired-legged teams off the floor. And that Curry guy should help a bit with the bricktastic part when he returns in 3-4 weeks.
I also want to believe. The Ringer article offered some hope. The proof will be in the defense. He's got the athleticism and the body; let's see if he has the resolve.
Great Kawakami article in The Athletic. I’ve been thinking all through this that culture is really difficult to build, tougher to sustain, and really, really fragile, unless Curry continues to hold it all together. Kawakami used the word “reckless.”
Ok, just spitballing here, but maybe we're targeting Griffin? The Pistons are almost certainly going to try to dump him, but where's the market for that? He's under contract until 2021 and has a $38.9 million player option that he'll almost certainly exercise for 2021-22 season, so not many contenders are going to even be able to entertain it, and no one building their team is hitching their star to that.
Meanwhile, the contract only has one year extra and, that aside, is actually worse than Wiggins' contract from Detroit's perspective, as it's more money per year and Griffin is a much better player, so worse when it comes to tanking good and proper, which they'll need to be doing now.
Maybe our FO's calculus is that we can actually keep some of those picks or flip them for an additional pick after a deal like that, and still be able to turn Wiggins into a useful piece?
I just want to reiterate, I love this site and am so glad that its creators did this.
Haven't seen this here yet:
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/02/warriors-to-sign-jeremy-pargo-to-10-day-contract.html
Now that Wiggins is one of us,I’m all for it. ( Can’t help it. I’m a fan).
The fantasy is the Warriors culture can teach and motivate another lost athlete. Can he turn into an above average defender with spot up 3s in the high 30s%? Can he learn to move in Kerr’s system? Why not?
I am a fan of Steph, Klay and Dray.
I’m all in with Steve, Bob and Joe.
If they get us back to the finals next year without the Greek, by cobbling together (some very good) MLEs, and by trading some picks for a sixth man using the TPE (does that work with the cap / apron?) there will be NO DOUBT those six make up the core of the best basketball team ever. It will make tiny the Durant asterisk. (I like Kevin, but I didn’t like that his presence distracted from the greatness of our original core.)
Resurrect Wiggins and shut Sir Charles the f up.
(3/3) I feel the Warriors had to take a gamble with the Wolves' pick, even if Wiggins sucks still (I'm not convinced he can't at least be a bit better than league average on both sides of the ball, but it's a good bet that most people are right and he's unsalvageable). Sometimes, all it takes is one player to keep a dynasty going. Is Wiseman or the Wolves 2021 or 2022 pick going to be Kawhi? Almost certainly not. But the Dubs have the Splash brothers and Dray, so the margin for error is bigger.
Essentially, the Warriors are gambling that 4+ yrs (+ RFA, so potentially much longer) of a good player outweigh 2+ established contributors that are only there for 1 year. I’m not so sure about that. Contenders need good, veteran role players, and Wiggins might not be able to even start in the playoffs. But maybe the Warriors either think that the FA/buyout market is weak next year, or (more probably) think that a veteran wing will be available cheaply.
If the Dubs didn’t have a top pick this year, the calculus might have been different. But 2 good picks have a decent chance of producing one good player that can be in the rotation even when Curry declines. Either way, FA’s want to play with the splash brothers. Maybe the Warriors recruiting power can overcome the Wiggins-induced lack of flexibility.
Or maybe they wanted to give Ron Adams a huge test of his abilities.
Edit per Badly Browned, below: okay make it the taxpayer MLE rather than the full MLE. They'll still be highly motivated to spend the whole thing; and guys like Favors and Marc Gasol may still be available at the price, given the fallow market in the league for true centers.
Can we get 1 Giannis for 1 Wiggins and our one hundred draft picks? 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Wiggins + Dray = a shooting fest.
I’m still angry 🤷🏻♂️
(2/3) But . . . if we're going to be the Spurs, we're going to be smart with contracts. LaMarcus Aldrige was a star in Portland, and was great when SA acquired him. He's basically a very tall Livingston, when he gets hot from mid-range, he can score at will. So even though mid-range is on the down-swing in the NBA (or out, if you're Houston), he was vaulable, although I'd argue that his signing, not that long after the Spurs rained 3's in the finals, started their decline.
I think the Spurs did probably the best they could when traded Kahwi. Poeltl isn't bad by any means, and they had no leverage. They only got a very low 1st rounder (where they could've taken Paschall :) ), and took DeRozan's contract.
DeRozan is way, way better than Wiggins, but he's a bad fit for the Spurs, because with LaMarcus, too, they've had to double down on mid-range. Also, DeMar's contract (2 more years at DLo money) is hurting the Spurs flexability as they try to claw their way back to the playoffs.
Wiggins' contract is going to hurt for at least the next 2 years, making it practically imperative that the Wolves' first and second both hit on at least solid players (you can get two very good role players or even starters for a combined $27+ mil). Luckily, one of those picks should be 20-25 places higher than the Spurs' Raptors pick, but it's not even close to sure thing.
Ok. I was initially TEAM NO WIGGINS.
Then I traded sides to TEAM Meh WIGGINS.
Then I read the posts about defense and decision making and man-purses and I ran back to TEAM NO WIGGINS.
But I am now firmly in the TEAM WIGGINS camp for two reasons:
One he has WINS in his name (and IGGI for that matter) and Two he has played for crap teams, he has an 8'11" standing reach (WTF?) he is athletic, the thought of him and Paschall trading off slashing to the basket is like releasing a gazelle and a bull in the streets of Pamplona.
That is more than two but I will keep going: I never saw Dlo long term after the first few months of watching him play. I can envision WIggiNS crashing the middle to open up the outside. The guy is considered likeable just a bit aloof and unmotivated. Spellman came to us with less of a resume and even though he initially rejected a Janet Jackson date with Draymond, he eventually turned into the definition of hustle. Maybe the Maple Jordan will follow suit. Or maybe he wont and he will always fail to live up to his potential. Whatever happens, the rest of this year will be fun. Hopefully Steph finds a reason to sit and cheer, Smiley goes Super Saiyan, and the rest of this team plays with energy and joy for the remainder of the year.
I'm all in.
(1/3) I'm actually liking the trade less from a short-term perspective and more from a long-term perpective the more I think about it.
I'm convinced that the combination of a mid-to-high lottery pick in a good draft + long-term relief from the repeater tax + less pressure on Dray (meaning less wear-and-tear long-term) + a max slot (even if it's untradable now) might be better than adding solid pieces (probably on 1+1 deals) and trying to eke out a 4 or 5 seed (even if Curry hadn't gotten hurt, Klay's absence still would've really hurt) by really putting in a good effort. I mean, a title this year was always unlikely, anyway, might as well s&t DLo and try to get some future assets. A pressure-less year is going to be so good for everyone down the road after 5 straight of not just great achievement, but a lot of pressure and wear-and-tear. If we're really going to try and be the Spurs, long-term is the goal anyway.
As someone suggested on Reddit, our final piece has to be Jeremy Lin. The CBA season got coronavirus-canceled and our homeboy is out of a job. A Curry Lin back court would sell out every seat of Chase Center for the remainder of the season.
Lol. Amazing stuff as always, Eric. I lol'd at "ok, wait there is a Wiggins in here."
With the initial shock of this deal calming down (and the chicken littles on GSoM presumably changing their diapers) I think some observers are still underplaying the financial angle.
Yeah, Lacob will *probably* be able to feed his family either way, but the amount this trade is going to save the franchise on repeater taxes — particularly with the high draft pick this year — is damn-near incalculable. Any cap mavens who want to try to calculate, go crazy, but remember: we're not just talking about next season but the compounding seasons afterwards. My general sense is that when once it's all over and done with, this cute li'l "cap-ducking" exercise may yield somewhere near a nine-figure savings.
How does that affect the on-court product we give a crap about, you say? Well, without those compounding 3x penalties looming over their heads, we can be pretty sure Lacob and co. will be motivated to spend like drunken sailors this offseason. That $17M Iguodala TPE now looks eminently usable, as does the full $10M non-taxpayer MLE (s/o to Chris for reminding me we that have to play with now; can't even remember the last time we did). Say ... JJ Redick and Derrick Favors, anyone?
If the DLo/Wiggins performance difference ends up anywhere close to a wash, this is a huge win for GS, imho, since on top of the $$ relief they also got a (likely) high first-round pick in a putatively stacked draft. I still think DLo has marginally better market value, and some untapped upside that running P&R and pick-and-pop all day with his BFF Towns will help unlock; but then I think you could say the same about Wiggins becoming more of a slasher/cutter/dunker alongside Splash.
Meanwhile, call me a shameless fanboy — you won't be far off — but I'm actually kinda looking forward to the breakneck, uptempo game they're gonna run all day with their newly-minted Bowman-Lee-Wiggins-Green-Chriss starting 5 (with a bench of Paschall, Looney, Poole, Smailagic, Toscano-Anderson, Norvell). It'll be brick-tastic, but I suspect they'll run a couple of late-season tired-legged teams off the floor. And that Curry guy should help a bit with the bricktastic part when he returns in 3-4 weeks.
Onward...