I see a lot the concensus laughing at the possible, albeit unlikely, prospect of DET trading the #1 pick for Wiseman plus 3 1st rounders from the Dubz. DET was and i would think still is interested in Wiseman, and they get a slew of good/great picks in this deal...
I dont think its absolutely out of the question that they like Wiseman as much or better than Cade
Which player is more useful to the Dubs: a fully realized Wiseman or a full realized Cade? I’m guessing Cade but that Kevin Garnett comp gives me major pause.
Okay, I am preparing for our annual Draft Pick Tournament, where we decide whom we want for the #7 pick, in a big bracket and pairwise showdowns.
The question is who should be in the running. I will show you my list, and I would like you to tell me if any other serious candidate for the #7 pick is missing.
This list which is constructed by looking at 15 mock drafts and listing all players that were selected from picks #7 to #13 inclusive.
Ziaire Williams probably, it's hard to know where he ends up on draft night because the growth spurt came after the season but before the draft. But he's more realistic to me as a guy who has a huge pre-draft rise to 7 than say Tre Mann.
Sengun only makes sense if we're trading Wiseman. Furthermore, his defensive limitations may just be too much. For example - if he develops pretty well and a has a pretty high-level outcome (say Domantas Sabonis level), is he still a guy that can play as a 5 for a championship team? The amount of defensive responsibility that is put upon bigs in the league is crazy high, and it is really hard to construct a winning defense with a bad defensive 5. That, combined with his lack of shooting (at least right now) makes it a no-go for me.
(b) I don't think we're the team for him as we already have a young, project C on our squad. If you take him, my guess is we need to trade one of the 2 pretty soon.
I will say that the FT shooting indicates that he will be a shooter eventually (he's 80+% at the line).
Here is one of my grab bag questions...can the warriors sign Marquess Chriss now or do they have to wait for the free agents signing period later this summer (which I think is after the draft)?
It seems to me that the whole draft analysis about players seems to ignore free agents filling a needed slot. (I am not saying Chriss fills the role of center, but I sort of got the impression that people thought the Warriors wanted him back and that he wanted to be back and I wondered why they did not sign him already.
Don't think they should be signing a guy who won't be able to play at the start of the season. Maybe they could try to add him in the spring like they did with Bogut in 2019.
He is a normal Free Agent - free agency begins a couple days after the draft (Aug 2nd), so no contract talks allowed until then. Right now, I think you can only talk to your own under contract players regarding extensions.
The draft process for teams had better be about Best Player Available. The draft process for pundits is for poking holes in teams' rosters and finding the player in the draft that fits best. And it's all done in a vacuum or speculation with biases... it's going to be a very imperfect science.
Thanks. This seems so backwards, it makes sense to me to have free agency, then the draft. that way, if you get what you want in FA (say a good center) then you do not even look at a center in the draft, but this way, you never know what free agents you might be able to get so your draft is more random.
Esp. with warriors and salary cap. They can only sign minimum deals
They all have good guesses... there are rules against "tampering" and visible penalties for tweets to keep up appearances, but they all work in the back rooms (e.g. why Kidd turned down Blazers job interviews)
Sengun probably has the higher upside... with his floor being maybe a slightly more skilled Kanter... but I can see Garuba making a lot of sense for us. Defense, rebounding, and passing at the 4... basically stuff we want EP to improve on. And with the emergence of JP, and especially if we get another scorer at #7, we would probably need less of EP's individual scoring.
So after all these previews, it seems like there's quite a lot of good defenders in the draft. Stay away from the centers at all costs. The Dubs need a veteran there and they still have Looney and Wiseman. Dray at the 5 will remain their best playoff lineups, as even Gobert gets played off the floor. Add a veteran big man, think about Chriss for the minimum and you have 4 full-time Cs at the 5. Any additional investment is too much. I still believe the 5 is the least important position in today's NBA. And that's without mentioning Paschall.
Which brings us to wings. With JTA, Looney, and Dray, shooting is at a premium to me. Give me two wings who can shoot with the two picks, assuming we keep them. The best shooter is likely Kispert. Hope he falls to 14, with Duarte as the fallback. At 7, I'm leaning Moody now. If Mitchell or Barnes are available at 7, I'm semi-interested, but their potential shooting woes scare me too much. Wagner could be another interesting pick. But the Johnsons, Sengun, Kuminga all are worse shooters. A lot of the others mentioned are just too short.
An underrated part of why the dynasty Dubs were so good was size. Steph, Klay, KD were all big for their positions. Then they had Liv and Iggy who also were quite long. The backcourt was full of these athletes with size. With Poole added, there's just less room for anyone who's not a wing in the backcourt. With Mitchell, I'm not positive he could play with Steph and we'd still be a top 5 defense. With Poole as well, I'm not sure they could even be league average when the backcourt is Poole/Mitchell. And Mitchell's better defensively than Bouknight for example. Perhaps Mitchell becomes Jrue-like defensively and can make up for his height. But I can't give that benefit of doubt until I see it for a young player.
Are you thinking that the Warriors don't need at least a backup PG out of the draft? Mitchell is the top choice and is far better than anyone we've had in years! No one plays defense like him and he is a leader with intensity and he's not a bad scorer. For me, you have to get a PG because going into the playoffs, Mannion or Poole is not going to cut it at PG. Add Mitchell into the starters on occasion for full defensive lockdown. With Splash Bros and Wiggins, that 70ppg right there. A consistent Poole, JTA, JW, Green and Looney, plus Mitchell and whoever else they bring aboard, they've got a ton of scoring chances along with a better defense and more playmaking.
Sengun seems like the star hiding in plain sight in this draft. Like when Kevin Love was at UCLA. Yes he was chubby, not that tall and not that long. Easy to pick apart the scouting report and wonder how it would translate. But he was also a dominant player, Pac 10 player of the year and the team went to the Final 4. Domantas Sabonis at Gonzaga. Not tall enough, not long enough. Just freakishly efficient and dominant.
Both guys have been tricky to build around as your team's best player or who to pair them with in the frontcourt. The Warriors would face the same issue with Wiseman. But Sengun could also just be treated like a luxury pick. He's very experienced for his age and could have a year focusing on his body really without the playing time that Wiseman needs. Basically taking the Smailagic roster spot. And if needed...he can probably play a little!
Then in a year or so you can find minutes at PF and C in the 15-20 range. If he's as good as he seems he should be really efficient in that time allottment and crucially would be maintaining asset value.
Garuba - Buy the defensive upside, but as an undersized C he seems to lack the offensive skill like a Bam has that makes that work. May work out, but tough fit for Dubs.
As Evan Zamir used to say about Draymond Green or Omari Spellman and Ethan Sherwood-Strauss adopted, Sengun has "fat upside". Saw this point from ESS about Doncic when looking it up that strength and conditioning programs aren't priorities in European basketball. No idea how true that is, although it would certainly have applied to Jokic as well.
Spellman was an example of when it doesn't go well, although sidebar, if the Warriors are looking for a cheap stretch big after spending the MLE on a playmaking guard/wing who can start when Klay is out, Spellman is still eligible for a two-way contract if he's in shape. His Instagram has pictures of him at the gym with hashtags like #TheFatBoyInMeDying. Just saying.
Ultimately, I just don't see Sengun being the pick if the Warriors are holding onto Wiseman. But man, Sengun being developed by Milojevic would be pretty awesome.
It's a great term. Big believer. Gasol, Jokic even Udonis Haslem once upon a time.
Thing is for Sengun is it's already happened. He's not fat now. I like this video of him. He's not cut, but he's fit, he can drive, and he's even got some ups. Check the dunk at 1:02. That's him getting up and over, with body strength to finish through.
Any 18 year old athlete could and should improve athleticism and strength. There's a big man version of Luka thing here where it's like: yeah he doesn't look that athletic, but he's also getting wherever he wants and grown men are bouncing off him along the way. The post footwork is cool, but that's tough at 6'10. The face up driving off the bounce stuff absolutely translates to the NBA.
No doubt, he's got skills that we wish Wiseman had. We haven't had a big guy in the paint with this type of game since David Lee. He was magic around the rim. But some questions arise concerning how Kerr uses his big men. Would Jokic have the same role he has on Denver if he was a Warrior? Everything runs through Steph and Dray. The big man is a support, not a focus in Kerr's system. Of course, Sengun could fit into our scheme. No other big guy has the overall stats that Sengun has in his 1 year at Besiktas. This guy fills the stat sheet. He's very intriguing. Davion Mitchell #7, Segun #14. I was all in on Kispert fitting into our scheme now, but I'm not so sure Segun is not the better choice.
Remember when Bogut was on the team, they'd run the offense through him in the high post all the time. Did it with West too. Draymond could be off ball setting screens for shooters, or just on the bench. They could definitely find a use for Sengun imo.
Bogut was already a proven commodity by the time he joined the Dubs. Plug and play. We can't expect that same plug and play with Sengun. But because the possibility is there along with his overall game, I am very inclined to give him top consideration.
So apparently Cleveland is opening the Sexton sweepstakes. I swear, if we could get in on those, that would be amazing. A career 38.5 three-point shooter averaging 24.3 on a rookie deal. Would be worth opening our treasure chest for.
Definitely can't buy into another small guard. But it's good to know CLE is open for business. But again, any move up, expect OKC to make the move, given their draft assets.
Not a great fit for the Warriors though since he would be a 6th man and in that role is only a modest upgrade over Jordan Poole if we believe Poole's 2021 results are for real. And Poole won't be an RFA for another 2 seasons which is important to a team with luxury tax problems.
He would start the season at the SG and after that we'd have to see whether Klay actually should be the starter (I have my doubts; I personally believe the way people talk about Klay, they will be in for a rude awakening next season). Plus, our second biggest problem was offense, so adding more of a scoring punch is well worth the effort. Plus, even if the luxury tax burden is too heavy, by the time Sexton's big contract comes into play, Wiggins will be an expiring, so there will be various options to reduce the tax impact (trade Wiggins, bite the bullet for one more year so Andrew and Dray can consider paycuts or leaving just to name the obvious).
What basis do you have for thinking that about Klay? He was taking it into another gear when he went down, and KD’s recovery should give us all hope that the second greatest shooter ever will still be very much himself.
For one, KD didn't also suffer an ACL tear. He also was given much more time to regenerate. Plus, we cannot even say for sure that he actually is at a 100%, because even a KD at 90% is still better than all but maybe twenty people who have ever played this game. Klay does not have that margin.
Yes and no. I think his movement off ball and D may not be as good as before, but he is still the second best shooter of all time and with Steph and Dray that is a BFD.
Yeah, it's going to take a while, people will freak out, and then he'll eventually be back to a very Klay like level. He won't be the two way workhorse of yore, but he'll get back to 20/game shooting 3's at a high percentage with volume.
Yeah - this was Wes Goldberg's take (who has a great daily Warriors pod). Klay was ascending to a new level when he went down. Just in terms of shot creation and being able to control the game.
Maybe that Klay is gone. But the old Klay, at least on O...why can't he be back?
On D he may be a step down, but I think can still be quite good. Especially if they protect him in the regular season and let someone else do the heavy lifting (like Wiggins, and this is why I like Davion's fit.)
> Klay was ascending to a new level when he went down.
Best he'd ever been, for sure. Sad to think what could have been.
> Especially if they protect him in the regular season and let someone else do the heavy lifting (like Wiggins, and this is why I like Davion's fit.)
This is why I like Oubre's fit too. Can pick up the speedy guards and allow Klay to guard the wing, or can guard the wing (which Wiggins obviously can too) and allow Klay to guard a Patrick Beverley type if that's who is playing.
I assume Klay will need to play more SF and less SG after these injuries. Also though, I think Klay's expected defensive drop off means the Warriors will need better rim protection from the center position.
Watching both of these guys makes you appreciate just how good Wiseman could be if he could just stay on the court long enough to figure out how to play defense. He has the footwork of Segun, size that these 2 can only dream about, and unlike both of them, he can shoot away from the basket. If Kispert (or a Johnson or Moody) is still available at 14, I'm still for taking that guy assuming of course that Looney will still be with the team. There is always a Chriss, Bender, or, dare I say it, Cousins around that can be picked up relatively cheaply to be the 3rd center.
Nah - he doesn't have anything close to Sengun's footwork or hands, and Sengun probably projects as a better shooter too. Better stroke, better touch around the rim and much better free throw shooter.
Which is all fine. Wiseman is way bigger, and more athletic. They're just very different.
yeah, that's definitely not the sort of thing you want associated with your team. But he will keep finding jobs as long as GM's think he has some game left.
Although it's a lazy comparison, Sengun really does look like Kanter down low. But man, these scouting reports include laugh-out-loud defensive red flags:
"Good on-ball defensive potential *if his athleticism improves* in the pros"
LOL - you're too cynical. He's 18. Part of his breakout season was attributed to him not eating as much candy. He *should* improve his athleticism, and hustle and spirit mean that he gives a crap on D. That goes a long way.
I think Jessup is a sure fire 2-way next year where he can log big minutes while learning the Warriors system and working on areas of his game that FO feels he needs to improve. If he forces his way onto the roster, great. But limited minutes in the NBA isn't going to help him develop. I think he makes his way onto the roster following year and I think he'll be a JTA glue type player, not as strong defensively, but a better shooter.
You’re making my point: dude averages 6.5 ppg over his career. Not a lottery pick candidate. But, if you want to take someone with the 7th pick that might blossom into a decent role player in 2028 …have it I guess.
December or January was my guess all along. I'm thinking the Warriors will do their best to re-sign Damian Lee, so some combination of Poole, Lee, rookie to be named later.
Simmons for Wiggins and all our assets is a struggle to see how it makes the team better. You’ve got a terrible fit between Dray and Simmons and then need to fill out a rotation of stretch bigs and 3 and D wings with minimum contracts. Those are hard to find.
Simmons for Dray and the assets is the only way I see it working. You lose Dray the defensive eraser but he’s replaced by the most versatile 1:1 defender in the league. Steph, Klay, Wiggins, Simmons and JTA/Looney line up as a good to great offensive lineup.
The bet is that in a lineups with the two best shooters of all time you unlock the superstar offensive version of Simmons. He’s one of the best transition players in the league, and playing off Steph let’s him be in a constant state of 4 on 3. He could get to 20+ PPG and 10 APG shooting close to 60% from the field.
It’s not a crazy idea on paper, but cashing in all your chips to replace Draymond with Simmons as a franchise cornerstone just doesn’t seem like the big move to make.
I think Wiggins having a year in the 35-40% range from 3 is far more likely in 21-22 thanks to Klay's added spacing, than him regressing to 33-35%. Furthermore, I think Wiggins staying the same or improving is also more likely than Ben Simmons being a good fit. Finally, since we want a Championship, what happens in the playoffs in the final minutes of games? Would we be counting on Simmons to be "de-exposed"? Seems like a bad bet, since that was the culmination of something Sixers fans have been worried about for years.
Simmons playing primarily C next to Draymond is just a terrible fit for his talents. You’re basically confining him to a dirty work Loomey type role. What’s the point of it?
I do wish we had someone else other then Wiggins or Draymond to trade for him but I'm not betting against our culture having an immediate positive impact on simmons
Yeah, I don't get this. Simmons has been in the league for 4 years now and he hasn't improved at anything. Why would you expect him to now? The only player you could plausible trade for him is Draymond since they have roughly the same skills set and Simmons is 5 years younger. From a purely statistical point of view it makes sense, I'm not so sure about the intangibles.
I would do the Simmons trade for Wigs straight up, and could be convinced to throw in the 14 (maybe). But not giving up the 7. I’d then go either Bouknight or Moody with the 7 as we’ll need spacing/offense. Simmons brings defense, rebounding and ball handling. Dubs become an elite defensive team, and I think with that line up could challenge for the WCF.
Wiggins was actually making fairly steady progress his first 3 seasons in the league despite being drafted onto a horrible team (hence, the #1 pick) and playing for 3 different coaches. Whatever the reason, he didn't do well under Thibobeau's system but seems to fit in well with Kerr's. Getting away from Doc Rivers isn't going to turn Simmons into a shooter.
Despite not being a shooter hasn't Ben always put up better advanced offensive numbers then Wiggins? Even in this year, Wiggins best year Simmons still has higher metrics right? We already know Simmons is much better on defense even though Wiggins got a lot better this year.
I just think this is a classic example of sell high, buy low
Last season Wiggins for Simmons would be laughed at
Our spacing would be straight up atrocious but I'm so down for this trade. It will be sad seeing Wiggins go though. I'm guessing Draymond would want to do this trade but they should tell him they'll only do it if he practices his shot more lol
Simmons needs the ball in his hands (except when it's crunch time and he's afraid of getting fouled, hey-o!). How does that work with Steph and Dray? Feels like the kind of redundancy that is bad.
I mean in a perfect world, Dray probably needs to eventually become an Iguodala-esque 6th man to preserve his body. He's done a lot of banging guarding guys bigger than him. And it can come quicker than you expect.
Even still, Simmons is more 3/4 and Dray more 4/5 to me. I don't think Simmons could ever be a full-time center against non-small ball lineups, just like I don't think Dray could be a full-time 3.
Expecting either Draymond or Simmons to develop their shoot at this point is unrealistic. They are what they are. If for some reason we have to make a trade with the Sixers, I'd rather have Seth Curry who was arguably almost as valuable to the team this year than Simmons was, and he only costs $8m/year.
Wiggins or Thompson for Simmons or Draymond + Wiseman for Simmons all work and would both lose the Warriors about 5 pts per game. The later trade also loses rebounds and assists. There's really no scenario where Simmons makes the Warriors better.
I see a lot the concensus laughing at the possible, albeit unlikely, prospect of DET trading the #1 pick for Wiseman plus 3 1st rounders from the Dubz. DET was and i would think still is interested in Wiseman, and they get a slew of good/great picks in this deal...
I dont think its absolutely out of the question that they like Wiseman as much or better than Cade
Which player is more useful to the Dubs: a fully realized Wiseman or a full realized Cade? I’m guessing Cade but that Kevin Garnett comp gives me major pause.
Cade’s floor, realistic upside, and crazy 1% upside all look WAY better to me. Not really on the same level as prospects.
I’ve yet to see what earned Wiseman a Garnett comp.
It's a wing's league, I'd take Cade by a bunch. And that's ignoring the likelihood of either reaching their ceiling.
Cade and it's not close lol especially under Draymond mentorship
6'8 great passer shot 40% from 3 in college and 80%+ from the line, 7'1 wingspan, good defender, high iq and very mature
I think it was the most well rounded season for a one and done wing since Durant.
Bucks up by…. 39!? on Hawks at the end of the third.
“Ice Trae” got a different meaning tonight…
Okay, I am preparing for our annual Draft Pick Tournament, where we decide whom we want for the #7 pick, in a big bracket and pairwise showdowns.
The question is who should be in the running. I will show you my list, and I would like you to tell me if any other serious candidate for the #7 pick is missing.
This list which is constructed by looking at 15 mock drafts and listing all players that were selected from picks #7 to #13 inclusive.
Alperen Sengun
Corey Kispert
Davion Mitchell
Franz Wagner
Isaiah Jackson
Jaden Springer
Jalen Johnson
James Bouknight
Josh Giddey
Kai Jones
Keon Johnson
Moses Moody
Tre Mann
Usman Garuba
Scottie Barnes
Jonathan Kuminga
Thanks!
Jared Butler
I feel like Butler would be less of a reach than some of these guys, he should probably at least be in the running.
Ziaire Williams probably, it's hard to know where he ends up on draft night because the growth spurt came after the season but before the draft. But he's more realistic to me as a guy who has a huge pre-draft rise to 7 than say Tre Mann.
Sengun only makes sense if we're trading Wiseman. Furthermore, his defensive limitations may just be too much. For example - if he develops pretty well and a has a pretty high-level outcome (say Domantas Sabonis level), is he still a guy that can play as a 5 for a championship team? The amount of defensive responsibility that is put upon bigs in the league is crazy high, and it is really hard to construct a winning defense with a bad defensive 5. That, combined with his lack of shooting (at least right now) makes it a no-go for me.
I get that thinking at 7, but at 14 you’re really worried about that?
For sure, he's probably worth a flyer at 14, but:
(a) I don't think he lasts that long
(b) I don't think we're the team for him as we already have a young, project C on our squad. If you take him, my guess is we need to trade one of the 2 pretty soon.
I will say that the FT shooting indicates that he will be a shooter eventually (he's 80+% at the line).
Here is one of my grab bag questions...can the warriors sign Marquess Chriss now or do they have to wait for the free agents signing period later this summer (which I think is after the draft)?
It seems to me that the whole draft analysis about players seems to ignore free agents filling a needed slot. (I am not saying Chriss fills the role of center, but I sort of got the impression that people thought the Warriors wanted him back and that he wanted to be back and I wondered why they did not sign him already.
Don't think they should be signing a guy who won't be able to play at the start of the season. Maybe they could try to add him in the spring like they did with Bogut in 2019.
Are we talking about Chriss? I thought he was already good to go and doing major workouts?
Oh. Well, good for him.
He is a normal Free Agent - free agency begins a couple days after the draft (Aug 2nd), so no contract talks allowed until then. Right now, I think you can only talk to your own under contract players regarding extensions.
The draft process for teams had better be about Best Player Available. The draft process for pundits is for poking holes in teams' rosters and finding the player in the draft that fits best. And it's all done in a vacuum or speculation with biases... it's going to be a very imperfect science.
I think almost every team takes BPA, but when there's no emergent "best" then it gets into the question of fit and prediction of development
I don’t know the answer about the timing, but just about to say none of the bugs we’ve been looking at excite me as much as Chriss does.
A lot of people keep talking about a big banger, but Chriss has offense AND defense, as well as the athleticism to stay on the floor.
This is my thinking as well. These bugs (lol) intrigue me but I'd 10x rather have Chriss, if we can get him back.
In my defense, i and u are next to each other and spellcheck was apparently all, “Ok by me 👍🏼“
If we’re being picky, it’s ‘you and I’
Yes, if they can sign him soon, I hope they do! Seems like a no-brainer.
Thanks. This seems so backwards, it makes sense to me to have free agency, then the draft. that way, if you get what you want in FA (say a good center) then you do not even look at a center in the draft, but this way, you never know what free agents you might be able to get so your draft is more random.
Esp. with warriors and salary cap. They can only sign minimum deals
They all have good guesses... there are rules against "tampering" and visible penalties for tweets to keep up appearances, but they all work in the back rooms (e.g. why Kidd turned down Blazers job interviews)
Hard pass on both. Usman could be a better fit in Portland.
Sengun probably has the higher upside... with his floor being maybe a slightly more skilled Kanter... but I can see Garuba making a lot of sense for us. Defense, rebounding, and passing at the 4... basically stuff we want EP to improve on. And with the emergence of JP, and especially if we get another scorer at #7, we would probably need less of EP's individual scoring.
But if we get Barnes at #7 then Garuba maybe wouldn't make sense
Sadly I don't think Barnes will be there at 7 :(
Yea, not looking likely... which makes it even more confusing who we should take.
So after all these previews, it seems like there's quite a lot of good defenders in the draft. Stay away from the centers at all costs. The Dubs need a veteran there and they still have Looney and Wiseman. Dray at the 5 will remain their best playoff lineups, as even Gobert gets played off the floor. Add a veteran big man, think about Chriss for the minimum and you have 4 full-time Cs at the 5. Any additional investment is too much. I still believe the 5 is the least important position in today's NBA. And that's without mentioning Paschall.
Which brings us to wings. With JTA, Looney, and Dray, shooting is at a premium to me. Give me two wings who can shoot with the two picks, assuming we keep them. The best shooter is likely Kispert. Hope he falls to 14, with Duarte as the fallback. At 7, I'm leaning Moody now. If Mitchell or Barnes are available at 7, I'm semi-interested, but their potential shooting woes scare me too much. Wagner could be another interesting pick. But the Johnsons, Sengun, Kuminga all are worse shooters. A lot of the others mentioned are just too short.
An underrated part of why the dynasty Dubs were so good was size. Steph, Klay, KD were all big for their positions. Then they had Liv and Iggy who also were quite long. The backcourt was full of these athletes with size. With Poole added, there's just less room for anyone who's not a wing in the backcourt. With Mitchell, I'm not positive he could play with Steph and we'd still be a top 5 defense. With Poole as well, I'm not sure they could even be league average when the backcourt is Poole/Mitchell. And Mitchell's better defensively than Bouknight for example. Perhaps Mitchell becomes Jrue-like defensively and can make up for his height. But I can't give that benefit of doubt until I see it for a young player.
Are you thinking that the Warriors don't need at least a backup PG out of the draft? Mitchell is the top choice and is far better than anyone we've had in years! No one plays defense like him and he is a leader with intensity and he's not a bad scorer. For me, you have to get a PG because going into the playoffs, Mannion or Poole is not going to cut it at PG. Add Mitchell into the starters on occasion for full defensive lockdown. With Splash Bros and Wiggins, that 70ppg right there. A consistent Poole, JTA, JW, Green and Looney, plus Mitchell and whoever else they bring aboard, they've got a ton of scoring chances along with a better defense and more playmaking.
Sengun seems like the star hiding in plain sight in this draft. Like when Kevin Love was at UCLA. Yes he was chubby, not that tall and not that long. Easy to pick apart the scouting report and wonder how it would translate. But he was also a dominant player, Pac 10 player of the year and the team went to the Final 4. Domantas Sabonis at Gonzaga. Not tall enough, not long enough. Just freakishly efficient and dominant.
Both guys have been tricky to build around as your team's best player or who to pair them with in the frontcourt. The Warriors would face the same issue with Wiseman. But Sengun could also just be treated like a luxury pick. He's very experienced for his age and could have a year focusing on his body really without the playing time that Wiseman needs. Basically taking the Smailagic roster spot. And if needed...he can probably play a little!
Then in a year or so you can find minutes at PF and C in the 15-20 range. If he's as good as he seems he should be really efficient in that time allottment and crucially would be maintaining asset value.
Garuba - Buy the defensive upside, but as an undersized C he seems to lack the offensive skill like a Bam has that makes that work. May work out, but tough fit for Dubs.
Love to hear it! I have Sengun at 5, I was expecting to get mocked mercilessly
As Evan Zamir used to say about Draymond Green or Omari Spellman and Ethan Sherwood-Strauss adopted, Sengun has "fat upside". Saw this point from ESS about Doncic when looking it up that strength and conditioning programs aren't priorities in European basketball. No idea how true that is, although it would certainly have applied to Jokic as well.
https://twitter.com/sherwoodstrauss/status/1076012078853279745
Spellman was an example of when it doesn't go well, although sidebar, if the Warriors are looking for a cheap stretch big after spending the MLE on a playmaking guard/wing who can start when Klay is out, Spellman is still eligible for a two-way contract if he's in shape. His Instagram has pictures of him at the gym with hashtags like #TheFatBoyInMeDying. Just saying.
Ultimately, I just don't see Sengun being the pick if the Warriors are holding onto Wiseman. But man, Sengun being developed by Milojevic would be pretty awesome.
It's a great term. Big believer. Gasol, Jokic even Udonis Haslem once upon a time.
Thing is for Sengun is it's already happened. He's not fat now. I like this video of him. He's not cut, but he's fit, he can drive, and he's even got some ups. Check the dunk at 1:02. That's him getting up and over, with body strength to finish through.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlhNh5zNHOE
Any 18 year old athlete could and should improve athleticism and strength. There's a big man version of Luka thing here where it's like: yeah he doesn't look that athletic, but he's also getting wherever he wants and grown men are bouncing off him along the way. The post footwork is cool, but that's tough at 6'10. The face up driving off the bounce stuff absolutely translates to the NBA.
No doubt, he's got skills that we wish Wiseman had. We haven't had a big guy in the paint with this type of game since David Lee. He was magic around the rim. But some questions arise concerning how Kerr uses his big men. Would Jokic have the same role he has on Denver if he was a Warrior? Everything runs through Steph and Dray. The big man is a support, not a focus in Kerr's system. Of course, Sengun could fit into our scheme. No other big guy has the overall stats that Sengun has in his 1 year at Besiktas. This guy fills the stat sheet. He's very intriguing. Davion Mitchell #7, Segun #14. I was all in on Kispert fitting into our scheme now, but I'm not so sure Segun is not the better choice.
Remember when Bogut was on the team, they'd run the offense through him in the high post all the time. Did it with West too. Draymond could be off ball setting screens for shooters, or just on the bench. They could definitely find a use for Sengun imo.
Bogut was already a proven commodity by the time he joined the Dubs. Plug and play. We can't expect that same plug and play with Sengun. But because the possibility is there along with his overall game, I am very inclined to give him top consideration.
Great pairing for this draft review. Obvious choice, do you want offense or defense with those guys.
So apparently Cleveland is opening the Sexton sweepstakes. I swear, if we could get in on those, that would be amazing. A career 38.5 three-point shooter averaging 24.3 on a rookie deal. Would be worth opening our treasure chest for.
<gif of empty treasure chest being opened>
Definitely can't buy into another small guard. But it's good to know CLE is open for business. But again, any move up, expect OKC to make the move, given their draft assets.
I feel like PHI has to at least look at Sexton considering their Simmons problem.
Listening to Givony on Zach Lowe. Suggested Kevin Love and Sexton for Simmons. That's not bad.
Plus a pick I imagine but that sounds good for both teams.
Mobley or Green w 3rd pick, plus Garland, Okoro and Simmons is pretty interesting. Probably want better shooting, but it’s not a bad fit
That's a great call. They want probably a better passer/playmaker but maybe they can find that in a guard or wing spot.
Not a great fit for the Warriors though since he would be a 6th man and in that role is only a modest upgrade over Jordan Poole if we believe Poole's 2021 results are for real. And Poole won't be an RFA for another 2 seasons which is important to a team with luxury tax problems.
He would start the season at the SG and after that we'd have to see whether Klay actually should be the starter (I have my doubts; I personally believe the way people talk about Klay, they will be in for a rude awakening next season). Plus, our second biggest problem was offense, so adding more of a scoring punch is well worth the effort. Plus, even if the luxury tax burden is too heavy, by the time Sexton's big contract comes into play, Wiggins will be an expiring, so there will be various options to reduce the tax impact (trade Wiggins, bite the bullet for one more year so Andrew and Dray can consider paycuts or leaving just to name the obvious).
What basis do you have for thinking that about Klay? He was taking it into another gear when he went down, and KD’s recovery should give us all hope that the second greatest shooter ever will still be very much himself.
For one, KD didn't also suffer an ACL tear. He also was given much more time to regenerate. Plus, we cannot even say for sure that he actually is at a 100%, because even a KD at 90% is still better than all but maybe twenty people who have ever played this game. Klay does not have that margin.
Yes and no. I think his movement off ball and D may not be as good as before, but he is still the second best shooter of all time and with Steph and Dray that is a BFD.
Yeah, it's going to take a while, people will freak out, and then he'll eventually be back to a very Klay like level. He won't be the two way workhorse of yore, but he'll get back to 20/game shooting 3's at a high percentage with volume.
Yeah - this was Wes Goldberg's take (who has a great daily Warriors pod). Klay was ascending to a new level when he went down. Just in terms of shot creation and being able to control the game.
Maybe that Klay is gone. But the old Klay, at least on O...why can't he be back?
On D he may be a step down, but I think can still be quite good. Especially if they protect him in the regular season and let someone else do the heavy lifting (like Wiggins, and this is why I like Davion's fit.)
> Klay was ascending to a new level when he went down.
Best he'd ever been, for sure. Sad to think what could have been.
> Especially if they protect him in the regular season and let someone else do the heavy lifting (like Wiggins, and this is why I like Davion's fit.)
This is why I like Oubre's fit too. Can pick up the speedy guards and allow Klay to guard the wing, or can guard the wing (which Wiggins obviously can too) and allow Klay to guard a Patrick Beverley type if that's who is playing.
I assume Klay will need to play more SF and less SG after these injuries. Also though, I think Klay's expected defensive drop off means the Warriors will need better rim protection from the center position.
Oubre was pretty bad guarding quick guards he would always play them way to tight and they would blow past him to the basket
Watching both of these guys makes you appreciate just how good Wiseman could be if he could just stay on the court long enough to figure out how to play defense. He has the footwork of Segun, size that these 2 can only dream about, and unlike both of them, he can shoot away from the basket. If Kispert (or a Johnson or Moody) is still available at 14, I'm still for taking that guy assuming of course that Looney will still be with the team. There is always a Chriss, Bender, or, dare I say it, Cousins around that can be picked up relatively cheaply to be the 3rd center.
Nah - he doesn't have anything close to Sengun's footwork or hands, and Sengun probably projects as a better shooter too. Better stroke, better touch around the rim and much better free throw shooter.
Which is all fine. Wiseman is way bigger, and more athletic. They're just very different.
Cousins is radioactive to me based on threatening another human’s life.
yeah, that's definitely not the sort of thing you want associated with your team. But he will keep finding jobs as long as GM's think he has some game left.
Although it's a lazy comparison, Sengun really does look like Kanter down low. But man, these scouting reports include laugh-out-loud defensive red flags:
"Good on-ball defensive potential *if his athleticism improves* in the pros"
"His hustle and spirit are major positives"
Yikes.
LOL - you're too cynical. He's 18. Part of his breakout season was attributed to him not eating as much candy. He *should* improve his athleticism, and hustle and spirit mean that he gives a crap on D. That goes a long way.
Yeesh...JP and/or Moody likely fills in til xmas...would be my best guess
What about Baze? I hope he comes back
Jumpin’ Jessup
I think Jessup is a sure fire 2-way next year where he can log big minutes while learning the Warriors system and working on areas of his game that FO feels he needs to improve. If he forces his way onto the roster, great. But limited minutes in the NBA isn't going to help him develop. I think he makes his way onto the roster following year and I think he'll be a JTA glue type player, not as strong defensively, but a better shooter.
Don’t think Moody has near the quickness. Very hard pass.
Doesn't have the quickness to do what?
To be an effective perimeter player.
Beli is gonna get you banned for that 💀💀
They said Kyle Anderson didn't have the quickness either
You’re making my point: dude averages 6.5 ppg over his career. Not a lottery pick candidate. But, if you want to take someone with the 7th pick that might blossom into a decent role player in 2028 …have it I guess.
Well he doesn't. He just compensates ..... somehow.
December or January was my guess all along. I'm thinking the Warriors will do their best to re-sign Damian Lee, so some combination of Poole, Lee, rookie to be named later.
Obvious cloud over ‘22, hope for the best prepare for the worst.
Simmons for Wiggins and all our assets is a struggle to see how it makes the team better. You’ve got a terrible fit between Dray and Simmons and then need to fill out a rotation of stretch bigs and 3 and D wings with minimum contracts. Those are hard to find.
Simmons for Dray and the assets is the only way I see it working. You lose Dray the defensive eraser but he’s replaced by the most versatile 1:1 defender in the league. Steph, Klay, Wiggins, Simmons and JTA/Looney line up as a good to great offensive lineup.
The bet is that in a lineups with the two best shooters of all time you unlock the superstar offensive version of Simmons. He’s one of the best transition players in the league, and playing off Steph let’s him be in a constant state of 4 on 3. He could get to 20+ PPG and 10 APG shooting close to 60% from the field.
It’s not a crazy idea on paper, but cashing in all your chips to replace Draymond with Simmons as a franchise cornerstone just doesn’t seem like the big move to make.
Fuck it I'm down, let's not forget Simmons is still young
Curry, Klay, 3nD wing, Simmons, dray would be an awesome lineup with Poole, jta, wiseman, lee, moody rotating in and out
I loved Wiggins this year but what if he drops back to 33-35% from 3?
Everybody talks about dray mentoring Scottie Barnes but how about him mentoring Simmons? That's be amazing
I think Wiggins having a year in the 35-40% range from 3 is far more likely in 21-22 thanks to Klay's added spacing, than him regressing to 33-35%. Furthermore, I think Wiggins staying the same or improving is also more likely than Ben Simmons being a good fit. Finally, since we want a Championship, what happens in the playoffs in the final minutes of games? Would we be counting on Simmons to be "de-exposed"? Seems like a bad bet, since that was the culmination of something Sixers fans have been worried about for years.
But tell me what's the issue with a curry Klay (moody/Poole/jta/lee) dray Simmons lineup?
I'd bring Simmons in here and treat him like a center asap
Simmons playing primarily C next to Draymond is just a terrible fit for his talents. You’re basically confining him to a dirty work Loomey type role. What’s the point of it?
Didn't he say he would only be a guard?
But a) he doesn’t have all the center skills someone built like him would typically have and b) he has resisted playing center.
I get that but that's where I'm betting on our culture. I could see him playing the next to Draymond and Draymond role next to wiseman
I do wish we had someone else other then Wiggins or Draymond to trade for him but I'm not betting against our culture having an immediate positive impact on simmons
Put Simmons on a non-playoffs bound team that can build around him on a slower timeline. It will be better for him and them.
Is Simmons capable of being mentored? I’ve seen a lot of Sixers fans lamenting how disinterested he’s been in improving.
Who on that philly team would mentor him? Bad coaches and organization, jimmy was there for how long? Other then that it's been a bunch of young guys.
Simmons wanted Butler out of Philly because Simmons didn't want to play off-ball, no?
I think that was the reports but at the same time weren't there reports of beef between Wiggins n butler too?
Yeah, I don't get this. Simmons has been in the league for 4 years now and he hasn't improved at anything. Why would you expect him to now? The only player you could plausible trade for him is Draymond since they have roughly the same skills set and Simmons is 5 years younger. From a purely statistical point of view it makes sense, I'm not so sure about the intangibles.
You could say the same about wiggins
I would do the Simmons trade for Wigs straight up, and could be convinced to throw in the 14 (maybe). But not giving up the 7. I’d then go either Bouknight or Moody with the 7 as we’ll need spacing/offense. Simmons brings defense, rebounding and ball handling. Dubs become an elite defensive team, and I think with that line up could challenge for the WCF.
Dubs are already an elite defensive team, especially if Klay is able to retain some of his prowess in that department
Wiggins was actually making fairly steady progress his first 3 seasons in the league despite being drafted onto a horrible team (hence, the #1 pick) and playing for 3 different coaches. Whatever the reason, he didn't do well under Thibobeau's system but seems to fit in well with Kerr's. Getting away from Doc Rivers isn't going to turn Simmons into a shooter.
Despite not being a shooter hasn't Ben always put up better advanced offensive numbers then Wiggins? Even in this year, Wiggins best year Simmons still has higher metrics right? We already know Simmons is much better on defense even though Wiggins got a lot better this year.
I just think this is a classic example of sell high, buy low
Last season Wiggins for Simmons would be laughed at
Is Stephen A. Smith ever right about anything?
he's right that this will get ESPN a lot of clicks...
Our spacing would be straight up atrocious but I'm so down for this trade. It will be sad seeing Wiggins go though. I'm guessing Draymond would want to do this trade but they should tell him they'll only do it if he practices his shot more lol
Simmons needs the ball in his hands (except when it's crunch time and he's afraid of getting fouled, hey-o!). How does that work with Steph and Dray? Feels like the kind of redundancy that is bad.
Dray can teach Simmons the little things he does that makes him help the offense while not being a shooter and not having the ball
I mean in a perfect world, Dray probably needs to eventually become an Iguodala-esque 6th man to preserve his body. He's done a lot of banging guarding guys bigger than him. And it can come quicker than you expect.
Even still, Simmons is more 3/4 and Dray more 4/5 to me. I don't think Simmons could ever be a full-time center against non-small ball lineups, just like I don't think Dray could be a full-time 3.
If he develops a shot again, then we'd have no problems.
Steph-Klay-Simmons-Dray-Stretch 5 would be sick
Expecting either Draymond or Simmons to develop their shoot at this point is unrealistic. They are what they are. If for some reason we have to make a trade with the Sixers, I'd rather have Seth Curry who was arguably almost as valuable to the team this year than Simmons was, and he only costs $8m/year.
If I were 2 feet taller I'd be a baller.
Does SAS consider Simmons more or less valuable than a bag of cookies?
LOL - SAS hot takes.
Big grains. YUGE.
Yeah, he would have to be locked into PF/C for there to be a fit and it would still be a big risk, depending on who’s being sent out.
lol, I'm still stuck on salaries.
Are we supposedly trading Wiggs for him? And how on Earth does that help the Sixers maximize Embiid?
Even presuming a third team, I can't imagine the Warriors would be all that eager to swap out any one of our big contract guys for Simmons
Wiggins or Thompson for Simmons or Draymond + Wiseman for Simmons all work and would both lose the Warriors about 5 pts per game. The later trade also loses rebounds and assists. There's really no scenario where Simmons makes the Warriors better.