This is why you make the playoffs btw. Do people really beleive we wouldn't have had a chance against the Kawhi-less Clippers, the AD-less Lakers, the Conley-less Jazz or the CP3-less Suns? Make the playoffs, give yourselves a chance. We'll always have the best player in the series anyway.
And we are a really good team hiding in plain sight. In 1300 minutes with Steph + Draymond + No Wiseman, we have a Net Rating of +11 and an ORTG of 122. Those are title contender numbers (at least fringe contention numbers). I don't think those hold up against top, top quality oppositions who have the defenders to load up on Steph + shooting, but do those teams exist in this year's playoffs?
And those numbers probably undersell the smallball Warriors because Looney was out in February and Bazemore/Lee/Oubre were all out at various points in April and May.
I think you are dramatically oversimplifying. As Goofus outlines, the deck was massively stacked against the Dubs this past season. Sure, if you could play out unlimited scenarios, you could undoubtedly find ones where they do better, but "a complete failure" sounds detached from reality, to my ears at least.
Smallball Clippers giving the Jazz fits, Batum stripes an open three to put them up 10 in the fourth because Gobert doesn't want to go out to guard the perimeter.
And I'm sorry, but the Kawhi-less smallball Clippers don't have more talent than the smallball Warriors.
I think that's a bit reductive. It's the athleticism edge for the Clippers just as much as the shooting imo, which the Warriors would have had with Wiggins, Oubre, and Bazemore. But as far as Gobert, Curry/Green is all that you need to attack him. Gobert sagging off Green with the ball means Curry is getting a three.
Warriors beating them twice in the regular season wasn't a fluke imo. But I do think the Clippers beating them on the road without Kawhi would be a bit fluky, still not convinced it'll happen. If nothing else, Jazz have an elite crowd.
I would be absolutely sick if I were a Sixers fan right now. Is Simmons just scared to be aggressive offensively at this point because of his FT shooting? His lack of contribution in that area despite the other things he does well must be familiar with a lot of Warriors fans
Funny how so many GSW fans are clamoring for another superstar and then you watch these guys on the biggest stage and they fall apart. Question: Simmons or Draymond at the free throw line to win the game. Who are you taking?
I came to say the same thing. Our team had some warts, but we had defense, shooting, team BBIQ and one of the 5 best players in the league. That would’ve looked pretty good against all these train wrecks.
The Hawks scored on like 8 straight possessions with Lou Williams, and it was just a matter of time before Philly's shooting cooled off and the collapse was complete.
If they blow this series I really gotta wonder if they consider trading him or if they run it back. Could see it going either way given that their GM is Morey and they were interested in trading Simmons earlier in the season, but they'll probably run it back given how well they fared.
I can see the flirt potential in Davion Mitchell. He seems like a natural leader and would fit into our bench right away. But, looking closer at his stat sheet and the NBA level he would have to go against, doesn't leave me convinced he's a plug and play guy out of the draft.
Two guys high on my list of "Smoke Screen Picks". The country assumes we would take Mitchell as high as 6 because we are in win-now mode and at 14, maybe we know more about Zaire because of our proximity to Stanford. Would I take Davion if he dropped to 14? Only if we had already snatched up Barnes, J Johnson or Wagner at the top of the draft. If we only have 1 pick, we won't be spending it on a 6'2" guard who will come in ranked 3rd on the point guard depth chart. But, if snatch one of the top forwards in the draft, Davion at 14 would take the spot that GP II will be trying to earn this summer. An upgrade over Payton, yeah. But am I wrong to prefer the hometown kid and spend that draft money on another wing?
Yeah, I don't think the 'win-now' player choice trumps taking Kuminga if he drops in your lap. I mean, try explaining not taking him. I would still take Barnes over him if I had a choice, but he's the only guy that can crack that current top 5.
Dude. Don't tease me like that. I would trade EP and our #14 to move up one spot to get Barnes. The rotations that you could put out with: Curry, Klay, Dray, Wiggs, JDub, Poole, Barnes, JTA, Loon, add Baze and Chriss splitting the TPMLE, D Lee and Barbosa and Zaza on a couple of 2 way contracts (wink wink) would be sick.
Heck the Stanford guy mentioned in the article that I would most like to see on the Warriors is Bryce Wills. He looked useful off ball, and was the best defender on the floor most games.
Mitchell would be a fine pickup as well, but I wouldn’t expect great shooting from him.
Zaire is the guy who seems least ready to contribute and he seemed overwhelmed by the college game even before his leave of absence. The team was way better with Terry
I can't get exited about either of these guys. My big question mark with Mitchell is the age; in his one good year he was essentially a G-league player playing against high school kids. It's not like he was Steph Curry and was jacking up and making a ton of 3s, or making 85% of his free throws, as soon as he got to college. He could be a late bloomer, but this is exactly the kind of guy the Warriors could pick up at the veteran minimum, as they did with GPII. As for Williams, I don't know, the stats don't scream future star and there are a bunch of guys with potential upside that will be available at 14, along with nba ready guys like Kispert that might be available with that pick.
Davion Mitchell - Look we're all conditioned to look at FT % and say that's got the bigger correlation to future shooting ability. BUT, there's obviously going to be exceptions. Look beyond the percentages. Are you really going to weight it more heavily that he made 41 of 64 free throws (low volume, low percentage) vs 63 of 141 3P's (High volume, high percentage) or that he made 95 of 168 from 2P range (57% mid volume, mid percentage)?
So yes, his FT percentage is low and that's a red flag, but he took a lot more shots all over the court and was knocking them down at a great percentage. It added up to one of the most efficient shooters in the country.
If you buy the shot...this guy is a present day great fit as a dog of a defender who can take on the toughest perimeter assignment so Steph and Klay don't have to, space the floor, attack gaps, and is a good passer. He's a fit next to anyone in the backcourt: Steph, Klay, Poole, Lee, Baze..
And he's got upside - I think there's some star potential here. Like a bigger, more explosive Fred Van Vleet. Goran Dragic who's an elite defender? The story of his shooting percentage doesn't need to read: "Unrepeatable outlier". It can be "Proof that he's got a great work ethic, and it's proven out on the court." Generally guys who improve like that don't stop improving.
Great comments. I really do like Davion and his foot speed on D is ridiculous. And D on ball at he point of attack is a very big box the Warriors have to check. We can't rely on Klay to be the only on ball stopper for guys like Irving, Lillard, Ja anymore. Davion has great game. But looking at games against the likes of PHI & UTA this year, the Warriors lack of size and athleticism is glaring. I put BBIQ higher on my wish list, but at some point you have to close that gap size/hops gap. Davion grades out on skills higher than Moody or Barnes, but because of his size, he would have less opportunity to impact games, whereas Moody or Barnes could fit into just about any rotation with their size and ability to guard across the board. But I appreciate your defense of Davion and I do think he will have a solid NBA career. And still think we can get our on-ball point of attack defense on the cheap from GPII.
How many players improve their ft% from the 60's to the 80's? Add the NBA level of talent that rookies have to go against and the competitive challenge of teammates vying for your job, it's asking a lot from a win-now situation that the Dubs are obviously in. Personally, I like Mitchell but I'm not sure I'd use a top draft slot to pick him. 3 and D players and size should trump potential in our case. And, what about this guy Josh Giddey from Australia? A 6-8 PG who can do it all? We passed on Lamelo last year and look at what it cost us. We need NBA ready talent, plug and play talent. That is what I am considering when I look at these players. Also, the very real possibility of trading out our picks for a proven player(s).
Giddey shot 29% from 3, 69% on FT. No one thinks he's going to be a good defender, like ever, let alone next year. I like Giddey because 6'8 playmakers don't grow on trees but I wouldn't count on a big Melo-like impact.
You forgot to mention 7.4rpg, 7.5apg, 1.1 spg. No one thinks he's going to be a good defender? Nonsense. Shooting is something that can be improved. Size cannot. This guy has sleeper written all over him. Put him in the Dubs system and you will have a much better Shaun Livingston with a much higher ceiling. Our pg's off the bench are ineffectual. This guy will produce. I'd say a good choice at #14 apart from Kispert and Wagner whom I like a lot.
I’d be ok with picking Giddey. He obviously has a nice mix of size and ability. But he’s neither 3 nor D, and I think he’d probably take at least a couple years to the point where he’s running the bench offense.
There’s a few guys I like more because I think they have comparable upsides and are likely to be ready sooner. But he wouldn’t be a bad pick.
I don't presume to know who is NBA ready, guaranteed. We need 3 and D and also a PG. Our PG's are sub par, Mannion, Poole not really a PG. 2 picks, one of each. Mitchell is probably more fit to plug in, but who are you thinking of at PG?
Can Mitchell run a pick and roll like Dragic? This tape from the video Apricot posted raises some questions imo (https://youtu.be/ZffyiqtugOc?t=408 ).
Also why did Mitchell not rebound in college? VanVleet was better in college, Patrick Beverley was way better, Kris Dunn was way better. From the last draft, seems like every point guard except Nico Mannion (lol but he was a freshman) and Cassius Winston outrebounded Mitchell in college per 40 minutes. Not going to go through all the short guys in the league, I'm sure Mitchell outrebounded some of them.
Yeah - fair points. The rebounding thing isn't great. Pick and roll game can develop over time.
My comps weren't necessarily spot on. More like he could be in this tier of players. And a guy who can come in and help the team right away while having a path to being that type of lead guard is super valuable. Mainly pointing out he's got a good ceiling.
I was rooting for the Clippers to beat the Jazz, personally. Not happening without Kawhi though. Awful news, basically ruins the Clippers for next season too. It's been a miserable playoffs and I really hope the Sixers know what they are doing with Embiid's knee.
Because of basketball pettiness and a desire for personal vindication lol. The Bucks have been denying me my "Bucks in 6" prediction in absolutely sickening ways, so I was doubling down on the Clippers to deliver me that momentary feeling of satisfaction.
I think Draymond is clearly a better defender than Gobert and I don't like how Gobert has been racking up regular season DPOYs and tricking people into believing otherwise. Elite rim protector but pull him away from the rim and he's uncomfortable, whereas there's no way to make Draymond uncomfortable on the defensive end. I'm annoyed that years from now, somebody is going to tell me Gobert was better than Draymond and are going to point to the DPOY advantage as proof, so I've resorted to hating on him in the present lol.
I also think the Jazz could be beaten by a good smallball team, which the Clippers have been doing. Two close losses in Utah (which is a way better homecourt advantage) and two big wins in LA, I think they've easily outplayed the Jazz so far despite the tied series score. I also truly believed that the Warriors were a good smallball team and could have definitely beaten the Jazz (who also have athleticism issues with Ingles/Favors/Bogdanovic that Wiggins/Oubre/Bazemore could have exploited), so I've been vicariously living through the smallball Clippers. Not anymore though, it's probably gonna be an asswhooping tonight.
Speaking of good smallball teams, I think the (semi-healthy) Nets would have destroyed the Jazz. Green or Griffin would draw Gobert out to the perimeter and then KD/Kyrie/Harden would enjoy some BBQ chicken imo. If you can neutralize Gobert defensively, you can neutralize the Jazz defense.
According to Defensive RAPTOR, defensive Real Plus-Minus, defensive Estimated Plus-Minus, and D-LEBRON — Gobert’s 2020-21 season is ranked as the best defensive season of all time.
Draymond is first in DFRTG and DBPM so he definitely has a case (especially given how noisy defensive metrics are) . . . but let's not act as if there isn’t a genuine case for Gobert to be DPOY. It's almost disrespectful :)
I think people (especially Dubs fans) remember Curry putting Gobert on skates 4 years ago and think that he gets exposed on the perimeter. Firstly, thats against Curry, everyone gets exposed against him.
Secondly, that was a long time ago and Gobert has improved dramatically in this area. Its there on tape, and its roughly represented in the numbers. Gobert was 7th ranked in the NBA on isolation defense, 6th for on-ball pick and roll defense, and 7th on catch and shoot defense (a rough approximation of perimeter defense) making for an overall average of 0.73 points per possession which was best in the NBA.
Not to mention, Gobert's absolute dominance within the paint allows for defenders to hug more closely to their man on the perimeter knowing they have him covering their mistakes inside improving perimeter defense that way.
To be clear, Draymond is obviously a better perimeter defender but Gobert has become really good in this area as well. This narrative that he's anywhere near a liability here needs to die.
Never said he doesn't have a case for a regular season award, Westbrook won the 2017 MVP and Gobert can win a DPOY award. He's not in Draymond's class as a defender though. Don't care at all about any of those all-in-one defensive metrics, personally. At their best they will tell you how good a player is in the role they are asked to play, which is why Nick Collison out-rated guys like Pau Gasol, Chris Bosh, and Marc Gasol in RAPM.
Gobert is an absolutely elite rim protector, what happens if his opponent can force him out of that role? Draymond recently discussed this himself, spot the lie if you can:
> "You didn't name not one person who can control the game from the defensive side of the floor," Green told Bleacher Report's Taylor Rooks when asked why she should have put him in her top three for DPOY over Gobert, Simmons and Bam Adebayo. "I think what [Gobert] does on the defensive side of the ball is incredible. I think the way he protects the rim is incredible. Defense is more than just protecting the rim.
> "Y'all don't judge defense the same way you judge offense. There is no offensive situation where you don't want Steph Curry on the floor. There is no offensive situation where you don't want James Harden on the floor. There is no offensive situation where you don't want LeBron James on the floor. Well, guess what? There's no defensive situation where you don't want me on the floor.
Firstly, I never said you did, I was responding to Sabrina who claimed that the only reason Gobert was winning was because of his greater size.
Secondly, this entire post relies on a basic faulty assumption that I already addressed in my above post. Gobert is not a liability on the perimeter. Gobert is not okay on the perimeter. Gobert is actually quite good on the perimeter utilizing his underrated speed + wingspan to stay in front/contest against smaller players.
To respond to Draymond, there is no defensive situation where I wouldn't want Gobert on the floor.
These playoffs are wild lol.
This is why you make the playoffs btw. Do people really beleive we wouldn't have had a chance against the Kawhi-less Clippers, the AD-less Lakers, the Conley-less Jazz or the CP3-less Suns? Make the playoffs, give yourselves a chance. We'll always have the best player in the series anyway.
Who would we lose to injury? Glad we don’t have to think about that, honestly. Brutal season.
Smiley.
But seriously, wasn’t losing Klay, Chriss, Wiseman, Lee and Oubre enough to say we had injuries too?
Not during the playoffs where no one is phoning anything in.
And where all it would have taken was one bad fall for fractured-tailbone-having-Steph
I always say this too. You can't go into a season thinking you won't win the championship. You never know what will happen in the playoffs
And we are a really good team hiding in plain sight. In 1300 minutes with Steph + Draymond + No Wiseman, we have a Net Rating of +11 and an ORTG of 122. Those are title contender numbers (at least fringe contention numbers). I don't think those hold up against top, top quality oppositions who have the defenders to load up on Steph + shooting, but do those teams exist in this year's playoffs?
And those numbers probably undersell the smallball Warriors because Looney was out in February and Bazemore/Lee/Oubre were all out at various points in April and May.
Just a complete failure by the organization.
You’re blaming an inability to stay healthy on the “organization”?
For allowing Klay to practice to get in shape and therefore hurting his Achilles?
For allowing Chriss to break his leg?
For allowing Draymond, Lee and Wiseman to get Covid?
For letting Oubre break whatever he broke and letting Curry fall backwards onto a step an injuring his tailbone?
While we’re at, I’m sure Paschall’s injury was an organizational failure as well.
There were arguably bit as hard as any team by injuries and Covid, yet still went 39-33 and that’s a complete failure by the organization?
What?
It was a complete failure to miss the playoffs. I didn't say anything about injuries being an organizational failure lol.
I think you are dramatically oversimplifying. As Goofus outlines, the deck was massively stacked against the Dubs this past season. Sure, if you could play out unlimited scenarios, you could undoubtedly find ones where they do better, but "a complete failure" sounds detached from reality, to my ears at least.
Imagine if hawks somehow make it out of the east too. That would make it hurt even more
Other than the Nuggets/Suns this has been the wildest second round I can remember
Too be fair, the first round ended up being pretty pedestrian.
Two straight possessions where the Clippers pull Gobert out to the perimeter and make him look silly.
They aren't beating the Jazz without Kawhi so I'll have to settle for this as my victory lol. I'm sure Gobert is a nice guy but sports hate>>>
Smallball Clippers giving the Jazz fits, Batum stripes an open three to put them up 10 in the fourth because Gobert doesn't want to go out to guard the perimeter.
And I'm sorry, but the Kawhi-less smallball Clippers don't have more talent than the smallball Warriors.
They have way more shooting though, which is what is causing the Jazz and Gobert fits.
If we've learned anything from these playoffs, it's that shooting is king. Teams with multiple high-level shooters have all done pretty well.
I think that's a bit reductive. It's the athleticism edge for the Clippers just as much as the shooting imo, which the Warriors would have had with Wiggins, Oubre, and Bazemore. But as far as Gobert, Curry/Green is all that you need to attack him. Gobert sagging off Green with the ball means Curry is getting a three.
Warriors beating them twice in the regular season wasn't a fluke imo. But I do think the Clippers beating them on the road without Kawhi would be a bit fluky, still not convinced it'll happen. If nothing else, Jazz have an elite crowd.
Everyone yesterday: Wow, what an epic choke job by the Bucks
Sixers today: Hold our beers!
Also, if Utah were to lose to a Kawhi-less Clippers team, yikes!
I would be absolutely sick if I were a Sixers fan right now. Is Simmons just scared to be aggressive offensively at this point because of his FT shooting? His lack of contribution in that area despite the other things he does well must be familiar with a lot of Warriors fans
Funny how so many GSW fans are clamoring for another superstar and then you watch these guys on the biggest stage and they fall apart. Question: Simmons or Draymond at the free throw line to win the game. Who are you taking?
Simmons is definitely not a superstar IMO.
(if that’s who you were referring to)
Draymond's a way better shooter than Simmons. That's not even close. He's 71.5% from the line for his career and nearly 80% this year.
Good lord, Sixers and Hawks. What a collapse in the City of Brotherly Boos.
Starting to think the Warriors could have won it all with these crazy injuries and disasters.
I came to say the same thing. Our team had some warts, but we had defense, shooting, team BBIQ and one of the 5 best players in the league. That would’ve looked pretty good against all these train wrecks.
Oubre and Lee both sounded like they were close to coming back too...sigh.
I can't believe the Sixers lost that, weren't they up like 30? How does that happen twice in a row?
The Hawks scored on like 8 straight possessions with Lou Williams, and it was just a matter of time before Philly's shooting cooled off and the collapse was complete.
If they blow this series I really gotta wonder if they consider trading him or if they run it back. Could see it going either way given that their GM is Morey and they were interested in trading Simmons earlier in the season, but they'll probably run it back given how well they fared.
I can see the flirt potential in Davion Mitchell. He seems like a natural leader and would fit into our bench right away. But, looking closer at his stat sheet and the NBA level he would have to go against, doesn't leave me convinced he's a plug and play guy out of the draft.
Two guys high on my list of "Smoke Screen Picks". The country assumes we would take Mitchell as high as 6 because we are in win-now mode and at 14, maybe we know more about Zaire because of our proximity to Stanford. Would I take Davion if he dropped to 14? Only if we had already snatched up Barnes, J Johnson or Wagner at the top of the draft. If we only have 1 pick, we won't be spending it on a 6'2" guard who will come in ranked 3rd on the point guard depth chart. But, if snatch one of the top forwards in the draft, Davion at 14 would take the spot that GP II will be trying to earn this summer. An upgrade over Payton, yeah. But am I wrong to prefer the hometown kid and spend that draft money on another wing?
The real question is if kuminga is there at 6-7 do you take him no matter what? I think I do
Yeah, I don't think the 'win-now' player choice trumps taking Kuminga if he drops in your lap. I mean, try explaining not taking him. I would still take Barnes over him if I had a choice, but he's the only guy that can crack that current top 5.
Curry klay wiggins green Barnes would be ridiculous
Poole klay wiggins/JTA Barnes wiseman would be a crazy second unit too
Dude. Don't tease me like that. I would trade EP and our #14 to move up one spot to get Barnes. The rotations that you could put out with: Curry, Klay, Dray, Wiggs, JDub, Poole, Barnes, JTA, Loon, add Baze and Chriss splitting the TPMLE, D Lee and Barbosa and Zaza on a couple of 2 way contracts (wink wink) would be sick.
Lol. The only issue with that PH is it ruins my Horford/Mills fantasy.
Maybe I have to get some new material to fantasize about, but KD has already been on the warriors so...damn...Im out
I'm not taking either over at 6-7. If we get Moses there I'm fine with taking a project at 14
Heck the Stanford guy mentioned in the article that I would most like to see on the Warriors is Bryce Wills. He looked useful off ball, and was the best defender on the floor most games.
Mitchell would be a fine pickup as well, but I wouldn’t expect great shooting from him.
Zaire is the guy who seems least ready to contribute and he seemed overwhelmed by the college game even before his leave of absence. The team was way better with Terry
I can't get exited about either of these guys. My big question mark with Mitchell is the age; in his one good year he was essentially a G-league player playing against high school kids. It's not like he was Steph Curry and was jacking up and making a ton of 3s, or making 85% of his free throws, as soon as he got to college. He could be a late bloomer, but this is exactly the kind of guy the Warriors could pick up at the veteran minimum, as they did with GPII. As for Williams, I don't know, the stats don't scream future star and there are a bunch of guys with potential upside that will be available at 14, along with nba ready guys like Kispert that might be available with that pick.
Davion Mitchell - Look we're all conditioned to look at FT % and say that's got the bigger correlation to future shooting ability. BUT, there's obviously going to be exceptions. Look beyond the percentages. Are you really going to weight it more heavily that he made 41 of 64 free throws (low volume, low percentage) vs 63 of 141 3P's (High volume, high percentage) or that he made 95 of 168 from 2P range (57% mid volume, mid percentage)?
So yes, his FT percentage is low and that's a red flag, but he took a lot more shots all over the court and was knocking them down at a great percentage. It added up to one of the most efficient shooters in the country.
If you buy the shot...this guy is a present day great fit as a dog of a defender who can take on the toughest perimeter assignment so Steph and Klay don't have to, space the floor, attack gaps, and is a good passer. He's a fit next to anyone in the backcourt: Steph, Klay, Poole, Lee, Baze..
And he's got upside - I think there's some star potential here. Like a bigger, more explosive Fred Van Vleet. Goran Dragic who's an elite defender? The story of his shooting percentage doesn't need to read: "Unrepeatable outlier". It can be "Proof that he's got a great work ethic, and it's proven out on the court." Generally guys who improve like that don't stop improving.
I'm hyped on Davion Mitchell.
Zaire Williams - Nah.
Great comments. I really do like Davion and his foot speed on D is ridiculous. And D on ball at he point of attack is a very big box the Warriors have to check. We can't rely on Klay to be the only on ball stopper for guys like Irving, Lillard, Ja anymore. Davion has great game. But looking at games against the likes of PHI & UTA this year, the Warriors lack of size and athleticism is glaring. I put BBIQ higher on my wish list, but at some point you have to close that gap size/hops gap. Davion grades out on skills higher than Moody or Barnes, but because of his size, he would have less opportunity to impact games, whereas Moody or Barnes could fit into just about any rotation with their size and ability to guard across the board. But I appreciate your defense of Davion and I do think he will have a solid NBA career. And still think we can get our on-ball point of attack defense on the cheap from GPII.
How many players improve their ft% from the 60's to the 80's? Add the NBA level of talent that rookies have to go against and the competitive challenge of teammates vying for your job, it's asking a lot from a win-now situation that the Dubs are obviously in. Personally, I like Mitchell but I'm not sure I'd use a top draft slot to pick him. 3 and D players and size should trump potential in our case. And, what about this guy Josh Giddey from Australia? A 6-8 PG who can do it all? We passed on Lamelo last year and look at what it cost us. We need NBA ready talent, plug and play talent. That is what I am considering when I look at these players. Also, the very real possibility of trading out our picks for a proven player(s).
Giddey shot 29% from 3, 69% on FT. No one thinks he's going to be a good defender, like ever, let alone next year. I like Giddey because 6'8 playmakers don't grow on trees but I wouldn't count on a big Melo-like impact.
You forgot to mention 7.4rpg, 7.5apg, 1.1 spg. No one thinks he's going to be a good defender? Nonsense. Shooting is something that can be improved. Size cannot. This guy has sleeper written all over him. Put him in the Dubs system and you will have a much better Shaun Livingston with a much higher ceiling. Our pg's off the bench are ineffectual. This guy will produce. I'd say a good choice at #14 apart from Kispert and Wagner whom I like a lot.
I’d be ok with picking Giddey. He obviously has a nice mix of size and ability. But he’s neither 3 nor D, and I think he’d probably take at least a couple years to the point where he’s running the bench offense.
There’s a few guys I like more because I think they have comparable upsides and are likely to be ready sooner. But he wouldn’t be a bad pick.
I don't presume to know who is NBA ready, guaranteed. We need 3 and D and also a PG. Our PG's are sub par, Mannion, Poole not really a PG. 2 picks, one of each. Mitchell is probably more fit to plug in, but who are you thinking of at PG?
Mitchell. If our bench backcourt is Mitchell and Poole we’re in good shape.
> Goran Dragic who's an elite defender?
Can Mitchell run a pick and roll like Dragic? This tape from the video Apricot posted raises some questions imo (https://youtu.be/ZffyiqtugOc?t=408 ).
Also why did Mitchell not rebound in college? VanVleet was better in college, Patrick Beverley was way better, Kris Dunn was way better. From the last draft, seems like every point guard except Nico Mannion (lol but he was a freshman) and Cassius Winston outrebounded Mitchell in college per 40 minutes. Not going to go through all the short guys in the league, I'm sure Mitchell outrebounded some of them.
Yeah - fair points. The rebounding thing isn't great. Pick and roll game can develop over time.
My comps weren't necessarily spot on. More like he could be in this tier of players. And a guy who can come in and help the team right away while having a path to being that type of lead guard is super valuable. Mainly pointing out he's got a good ceiling.
I was rooting for the Clippers to beat the Jazz, personally. Not happening without Kawhi though. Awful news, basically ruins the Clippers for next season too. It's been a miserable playoffs and I really hope the Sixers know what they are doing with Embiid's knee.
Might be a more minor knee sprain than something that would keep him out next year…
E.g. either of Stephs MCL sprains
But why? Aren't the Jazz just more likeable? Better shot at beating the JuggerNets?
Because of basketball pettiness and a desire for personal vindication lol. The Bucks have been denying me my "Bucks in 6" prediction in absolutely sickening ways, so I was doubling down on the Clippers to deliver me that momentary feeling of satisfaction.
I think Draymond is clearly a better defender than Gobert and I don't like how Gobert has been racking up regular season DPOYs and tricking people into believing otherwise. Elite rim protector but pull him away from the rim and he's uncomfortable, whereas there's no way to make Draymond uncomfortable on the defensive end. I'm annoyed that years from now, somebody is going to tell me Gobert was better than Draymond and are going to point to the DPOY advantage as proof, so I've resorted to hating on him in the present lol.
I also think the Jazz could be beaten by a good smallball team, which the Clippers have been doing. Two close losses in Utah (which is a way better homecourt advantage) and two big wins in LA, I think they've easily outplayed the Jazz so far despite the tied series score. I also truly believed that the Warriors were a good smallball team and could have definitely beaten the Jazz (who also have athleticism issues with Ingles/Favors/Bogdanovic that Wiggins/Oubre/Bazemore could have exploited), so I've been vicariously living through the smallball Clippers. Not anymore though, it's probably gonna be an asswhooping tonight.
Speaking of good smallball teams, I think the (semi-healthy) Nets would have destroyed the Jazz. Green or Griffin would draw Gobert out to the perimeter and then KD/Kyrie/Harden would enjoy some BBQ chicken imo. If you can neutralize Gobert defensively, you can neutralize the Jazz defense.
>>I'm annoyed that years from now, somebody is going to tell me Gobert was better than Draymond and are going to point to the DPOY advantage as proof
Crap! Now I'm annoyed, too!
It does help though, doesn't it?
According to Defensive RAPTOR, defensive Real Plus-Minus, defensive Estimated Plus-Minus, and D-LEBRON — Gobert’s 2020-21 season is ranked as the best defensive season of all time.
Draymond is first in DFRTG and DBPM so he definitely has a case (especially given how noisy defensive metrics are) . . . but let's not act as if there isn’t a genuine case for Gobert to be DPOY. It's almost disrespectful :)
I think people see how Rudy can get exposed on the perimeter and think there’s no way that’s better than Draymond, who never get put on skates.
I think people (especially Dubs fans) remember Curry putting Gobert on skates 4 years ago and think that he gets exposed on the perimeter. Firstly, thats against Curry, everyone gets exposed against him.
Secondly, that was a long time ago and Gobert has improved dramatically in this area. Its there on tape, and its roughly represented in the numbers. Gobert was 7th ranked in the NBA on isolation defense, 6th for on-ball pick and roll defense, and 7th on catch and shoot defense (a rough approximation of perimeter defense) making for an overall average of 0.73 points per possession which was best in the NBA.
Not to mention, Gobert's absolute dominance within the paint allows for defenders to hug more closely to their man on the perimeter knowing they have him covering their mistakes inside improving perimeter defense that way.
To be clear, Draymond is obviously a better perimeter defender but Gobert has become really good in this area as well. This narrative that he's anywhere near a liability here needs to die.
Never said he doesn't have a case for a regular season award, Westbrook won the 2017 MVP and Gobert can win a DPOY award. He's not in Draymond's class as a defender though. Don't care at all about any of those all-in-one defensive metrics, personally. At their best they will tell you how good a player is in the role they are asked to play, which is why Nick Collison out-rated guys like Pau Gasol, Chris Bosh, and Marc Gasol in RAPM.
Gobert is an absolutely elite rim protector, what happens if his opponent can force him out of that role? Draymond recently discussed this himself, spot the lie if you can:
> "You didn't name not one person who can control the game from the defensive side of the floor," Green told Bleacher Report's Taylor Rooks when asked why she should have put him in her top three for DPOY over Gobert, Simmons and Bam Adebayo. "I think what [Gobert] does on the defensive side of the ball is incredible. I think the way he protects the rim is incredible. Defense is more than just protecting the rim.
> "Y'all don't judge defense the same way you judge offense. There is no offensive situation where you don't want Steph Curry on the floor. There is no offensive situation where you don't want James Harden on the floor. There is no offensive situation where you don't want LeBron James on the floor. Well, guess what? There's no defensive situation where you don't want me on the floor.
This video does a good job breaking down Gobert's defense including addressing misconceptions regarding his perimeter defense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y93fx0ZDLAQ&t=366s&ab_channel=ThinkingBasketball
Firstly, I never said you did, I was responding to Sabrina who claimed that the only reason Gobert was winning was because of his greater size.
Secondly, this entire post relies on a basic faulty assumption that I already addressed in my above post. Gobert is not a liability on the perimeter. Gobert is not okay on the perimeter. Gobert is actually quite good on the perimeter utilizing his underrated speed + wingspan to stay in front/contest against smaller players.
To respond to Draymond, there is no defensive situation where I wouldn't want Gobert on the floor.
espn.com: "The Clippers just lost the postseason's biggest superstar" - no, that'd be KmfD.
https://www.espn.com/espys/story/_/id/31633158/espys-2021-vote-best-nba-player
why is chris paul there lol