42 Comments

I see so many people suggesting to trade down in the draft. But from my limited knowledge of sports drafts, trading down rarely, if ever, works out for the team that trades down. There are numerous success stories of teams that traded up (the most recent of which was Dallas trading up to get Doncic... ask Atl how they feel about their franchise right now). Can someone point out at least one occasion where a team struck gold trading down from a near top position in a draft?

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I think its a no brainer if the guy you're targeting can be had a later spot...

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2017 Celtics trade down from the #1 to #3 to take Tatum, gaining more assets as well as saving some money on the cap for a guy they knew they wanted to take.

1998 Dallas dropped from #6 to #9 to grab Nowitzki, apparently owner didn't want to risk a European player on a #6 but would for a #9 pick.

1980 Celtics gave up the #1 pick (Joe Barry Carroll) and the #13 pick (Rickey Brown) to the Warriors for the #3 pick (Kevin McHale) and Robert Parrish....

So yeah, I dunno about trading down from like a Top 3 pick into the late lottery, but trading down a few spots has netted success.

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Thank you! I appreciate that. I completely forgot about the Celts trading down and getting Tatum. It's still a rarity to succeed.

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I’ve been preaching to sell the high draft pick to the highest bidder, and pick up Devin Vassell for a few months now. He will be a cornerstone for the dubs next evolutionary step. I’m tired of warriors attempts to turn bad defenders in to passable ones, I’d ready to see if the system can turn a good defender in to a great one and I think Devin Vassell has the potential to be all NBA defense I’m 3 years . Let’s face it dreymond is great defender, but even he needs help on that end! The other player I’d love the duds to look at is Jalen Smith , reminds me of Spicy P has the potential be impactful on both ends of the court

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Saddiq Bey and Aaron Nesmith are similar size and skill set players but ranked higher in the draft than Devin Vassell; what is it that you think Vassell has that Bey and Nesmith don't have?

I am curious. I think they need to add either defense and shooting or a high energy rim runner and defender like Onyeka Okongwu. I like the idea of trading down and adding another draft pick for next year or using the TPE/bridge to add a player like Aaron Gordon to make a win now - win later move.

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Vassell is Dreymond like on the defenseive end flying out to switch on a defensive assignment mid-pass , always hustling making meaningful closes outs , great on ball , great using hands , plays tremendous baseline defensive, arms always up his defense is a joy to watch and it’s not often you get spellbound by someone playing defense kid is special and that end oh and he shot a career %41 percent from the 3 in college

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It's great to see the high regard you have for Vassell. If what you say is true, and if the Warriors are thinking the same thing, how do they guarantee that they get Vassell? It would seem that they would have to pick him before any of the let's say top 10 picks are taken. Trading down to a mid level pick is no insurance at all that Vassell is on the board. Do you see my point?

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Just watched the Youtube clips focusing on both offensive and defense. This is a very impressive 2 way player. Seemingly a perfect 3&D guy that would/could fit perfectly with the Warriors. He looks like a great athlete and his motor is relentless. Great hands, block and defends well, excellent 3 pt shooter. How do we get him? The only way would be to take him early in the draft. Would the Warriors go for a seemingly late round pick with a high lottery ticket? Talk about a gamble! he looks better than Wiggins ever did!

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I like the Idea of a starting 5 of Ibaka, Dreymond,Vassell,Klay, Steph with Wiggins , Paschall, and Marquises coming off the bench

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Let's get through the draft first before we start playing with the pieces that we are sure about.

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It's good to think outside of the box. But, in this case, you are talking about trading the pick for what?, 1 or 2 2nd round draft picks that won't guarantee we would get either of these two players. What kind of deal do you have in mind, specifically?

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Thunder might be an interesting trading partner possibility as well there accumulated a lot of draft capital . Maybe they would take a swing and take this years first as well as Andrew Wiggins for there pick in the teens this year next years first and Steven Adams who I don’t think fits there current youth movement

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Honestly think half way thru the season Vassell would be starting over Wiggins and I kinda like the idea of Wiggins, Paschall, Marquises coming off the bench especially if warriors are able to get a good defense center with there MLE like Ibaka

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Well really hard to speculate since we don’t have concrete draft order yet but I know Washington and the Knicks are hot for LaMelo soo I think chances are they are both in the 5-10 range ( again no guarantee ) but you create a bidding war between them ( and this is assuming we have the first ) take back there 5-10th pick and have them add there first next year in a start led draft then Bob Myers has two first next year to play with and we would have a VERY HI IQ wing that can guard 1-3 and provided shooting

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Unless the Warriors' brain trust knows a secret they are telling no one, their pick will be "none of the above." High draft picks, and the financial commitment that come with them, are designed for teams who need a reason for fans to get excited, unless, of course, it is someone like Zion or Shaq or Tim Duncan. When the top few picks are only "roll-the-dice" good, then a rational team will play the odds and trade down, resulting in lower costs and increasing the value of their intelligence/scouting, allowing them to pick up a Siakam or Klay or Draymond a little further down the draft order.

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That's if they can find a buyer who wants a higher pick in this Draft. As with all trade suggestions involving Warriors player X, often the very premise of, "Why would the other team want X?" is overlooked.

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The Knicks in particular are a team where they have some spare assets (young players, lower first round picks from Mavericks and Clippers) and could want to trade up for someone like Lamelo. They have a hole at PG, and he'd be a nice on court fit with their best young players in RJ Barrett and Mitchell Robinson. (No one knows if they actually like Lamelo vs guys in the mid lottery, but in theory it makes sense).

The Hawks could look to move up for Anthony Edwards. Suns could want Lamelo to pair with Booker. Hornets, Bulls, Pistons..maybe even Spurs? Any of these teams could really value a specific player they see as a cut above what will be in the mid to late lottery. And I think the Warriors can make it happen by not setting too high a price on the cost to move up.

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I actually think given the Covid situation more teams will have finical incentives to sell the pick UTAH for instance has been making news about not paying there workers right now heck even Lacob has stated that the warriors brass may have to take finances into consideration of he. Making more moves

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Fortunately, there are always other teams who have a different view, PMC. Anything can happen. The main problem is the identification of a player(s) that can help them now that doesn't double up on what they already have. Now is the central word. They could use a power big man. PF or C, now. They need a backup SG and a backup PG. To not get another starter out of this draft is a gamble so I think they either trade down or give up the pick in a trade. I would say with some certainty, how much is debatable, that the main target(s) will be through trade(s) or FA signing. If they are reasonably sure they can get a starter or two out of this whole offseason, then the Warriors will not go fishing in this weak draft.

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There's plenty of guys who can make an impact next year, who also have big long term upside: Killian Hayes, Devin Vassell, Onkongwu, Okoro. They'd all need some improvement throughout year, but all could be rotation guys on a contention team, and maybe playing key minutes. Vassell in particular is someone who can play right away as a dangerous shooter and great defender. The things he needs to get better at: his handle, and filling out...are typically the things that most players add easiest in the NBA.

Lamelo should probably round into a good shooter. He's shiftier than Lonzo on his handle and has a higher slashing/scoring potentiel. He's got the size and instincts to be a good versatile defender. I just think he's a year away, and probably better suited to going to a bad team where he can dominate the ball and figure things out.

Edwards isn't really good at anything. We've already got Andrew Wiggins who's a picture perfect body type who is an inefficient scorer and bad defender. Let's work on turning him into a winning ballplayer and let someone else waste their time on Edwards.

Wiseman also could play playoff minutes in certain matchups. He's got a pro body right now, and is a really good athlete. I just don't think he's got the upside of an All-NBA Center. So its hard to spend a high pick on a somwhat limited archtype.

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I'd stay away from LaMelo, personally, though I admittedly haven't watched that much of his Australian league play (though I did see a bit). I haven't seen any indication from him that he's willing to do the "little things" that it takes to win. He seems to play basketball as if the point is to rack up glamour stats (points/assists/rebounds) and highlight plays. Perhaps the poor efficiency doesn't matter and he turns into a good scorer but I still wouldn't risk it.

Has he ever set a screen for another player? Has he ever pulled on a defender's jersey to slow him down while a teammate is driving the lane? Why does he completely die when he gets screened?

He's a guy who has been catered to and told he's the centerpiece his entire basketball career (sometimes because his dad would undermine the coach). Not to mention he was thrown into a very distorted positive reinforcement cycle that rewarded him for Youtube highlight reels instead of wins. I don't know if the "Warrior culture" is going to do anything for him.

I can see the height and the passing ability making him appealing and I know everyone in the draft is flawed, but I just don't get why a team would take him over Killian Hayes, who will probably be available wherever the Warriors draft in the top 5. Also, I don't like the idea of drafting for an impact next year. They should take the guy they think projects to have the best career imo, even if it's a PG.

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I don't think Lamelo is a good fit for the Warriors. He's not likely to be a good shooter, or defender next year. There's only so much value he can have as a passer. I really think he's best suited to have a team give him the reins and let him go. Even if it means a couple seasons of losing.

But that said, I don't think he's any less likely to turn into a winning basketball player than any other 18 year old. I think Lavar is a clown show, and actually instilled some bad mechanical flaws into his sons with the way they shoot. But he did seem to set them up to have a very professional mindset.

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I'm the opposite. I think LaMelo needs to fall in the draft and go somewhere where everything is earned not given for him to shake the habits that have gotten him to this point. LaMelo isn't like most 18 year olds imo, his level of fame amongst the zoomers is absurd.

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What kind of credentials do you have in evaluating Draft picks?

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LOL - credentials.

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Hayes, Vassell... where are you getting this from? Are you actually watching tape? Are you getting it from other Draft pundits? Who are the pundits. You just wrote hella paragraphs. Might as well state some “sources”.

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hammystyle has been giving detailed breakdowns of prospects for years on GSOM (and now here)

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He should’ve just said that. Instead, he took it as a pissing contest, which was not my intention but that’s how most commenters react on social media 🤷🏻‍♂️ Anyways my point still holds. We are all just armchair GMs unless there is some credibility such as years followed the Draft, years CORRECTLY followed the Draft, and ability to source info from agents and mgmt.

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All due respect, I don't see anything from their initial post that was confrontational. It seemed like "what kind of credentials do you have in evaluating draft picks" was the beginning of the confrontation, but it was probably just a miscommunication.

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For one - relax. Grilling me on my credentials in the comments of a blog is absurd. Try a little more congenial tone. If you want to know some places I like, here you go: In general, I think Kevin O'Connor at The Ringer is probably the best online draft guy right now. Sam Vecenie at The Athletic, Thestepien, nbadraft.net, Jonathan Wasserman at Bleacher Report, Chad Ford, John Hollinger, Nate Duncan and Danny Leroux. I read their stuff and listen to their podcasts. In no particular order there, but I think TheStepien's approach is really cool and informative. I'll also read any feature articles about the prospects themselves if I can find them. Just get a solid cross section of opinions.

I know all their their stats, I know their estimated measurements, and I have been into the draft for long enough to have opinions on how important those things are. I do watch tape and in general just get a feel of "how does their skill level look", "how athletic and big do they look".

If you add all that up, Hayes and Vassell look great. Hayes' has a great frame and tremendous skill level, period. His passing skill and off the dribble game look NBA level right now, and he's 18. To me that's a very good sign that he is going to be good soon and get better.

Vassell - I've taken some of the experts word on it that he along with Okoro are the top two wing defenders in the draft. The Warriors need a player like that. He's a good 3 point shooter right now, with a nice high release. So typical 3 and D prospect who I think fits pretty safely in the Danny Green to Josh Richardson spectrum. The upside is he could be better than that. He's got some herky jerky mid range game. He's athletic enough to finish in the paint. So if he can be a high level 3 and D guy right out the gate with some upside to develop into a 2nd or 3rd scorer who can create his own shot, then that's a great pick. I'm interested to see what his measureables are. He's estimated at about 6'7 in socks with a 6'10 wingspan. That's very solid. If he's more like 6'5 with 6'8.5 wingspan it's a little more limiting.

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Relax? Lol. You're the one saying I was "grilling" you.

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You asked me a series of questions to determine my credibility. That's what "grilling" someone usually refers to.

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What kind of credentials does anyone here have for that matter? We are all playing armchair GM, no?

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Exactly. I prefer sitting back and letting the Draft happen. If I’m reading anything, it will be from credible, EXPERIENCED sources (DraftExpress, NBAdraft.net being the top two)

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So why didn’t you lambast all the writers participating in the round table that people are commenting on? Sheesh.

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Sorry, what are you mad about, specifically?

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Vassell has game watch the tape , People are starting to find out about him I’ve seen him as high as six recently

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I will end up going to YouTube for Vassell just because I’ve heard the name drop on Twitter and because of your comments here (take that as a hat tip and the fact that there is more time to do that nowadays than before) but truth be told, I would prefer to know where you found out about him and all that. That’s kind of the point I’ve been trying to drive home about all this “armchair GM/draft” stuff which I understand that a lot of people go crazy about — comments on our articles are great, for sure — and hence fall in love with certain players. I get it, it’s fun, but at the end of the day I will just end up reporting on whomever it is that is picked by Myers, once the NBA gets back to some semblance of normalcy — I’m certainly conscious that my idea “fun” (say, watching this new guy shoot around and develop over the span of months) is atypical (rumor-ville, hot takes, et al).

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Just checked he is 6th on “The Ringer NBA draft board “

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Ok good, The Ringer it is, then. NBAdraft.net still doesn’t have Vassell on their Top 30. To me, Ringer needs more clicks than the venerable NBAdraft.net, so we’ll see.

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