The "Poole moving to the bench is a demotion" media comments are off base. The 6th man role comes with a lot of history and a lot of responsibility. It will be on him to push the 2nd unit, to score, to involve others and one of his biggest responsibilities may be put together a successful P&R game with Wiseman. If they can find some success in that, that will get Wiseman a little more time on the floor.
More importantly, it's about who finishes games and, if the Warriors need to score, a 5-man unit of Steph-Poole-Klay-Wiggs-Dray will be pretty deadly. I suspect Klay may split his time between the 2 and 3 from here on out in his career. Won't make any difference to him, just a less stressful defensive assignment. And this will leave the door open for more minutes to share the floor with Poole. There will always be minutes for the guys who can make a difference.
What matters is how Poole feels about it. I'm sure he'll accept it for this season but 22 year olds with tons of confidence generally aren't eager to be coming off of the bench for most of their 20s. It seems like an issue down the line because Poole is probably best as a PG and the Warriors have Curry. I could definitely see Poole on another team in a few years.
Unfortunately, this is exactly how I see it too... They gotta get him and Andre a ring this year. That way, every time he goes home he gets a reminder of what he's accomplished, and every time he goes into the office, his strength & finance coach (newly retired Andre Iguodala, who strangely wears all 4 championship rings all the time) can remind him that winning championships as the 6th man isn't so bad... especially when he's logging 30mpg.
In the '23 offseason, Poole will be RFA, so the Warriors can match any offer he gets. I suppose he could refuse to sign anything other than the QO, become unrestricted after '24 offseason, and bolt... but by the '24 offseason, Steph will be 36, and Poole would be the heir apparent. You gotta figure he'd consider sticking around for that...
Is NBA TV part of standard cable packages now (cut the cord ages ago)? Aside from trying to workaround League Pass blackouts for NBA TV games, I don't think I ever hear about NBA TV otherwise...
Jan 5, 2022·edited Jan 5, 2022Liked by punk basketball
It's commonly included with basic sports packages. Generally if you have anything more than the very basic set you probably have it. Still a lot more TVs than just local affiliates (and those affiliates still count, so it's a strict value add in that regard).
Right, NBA TV is the one that gets blacked out "locally" (I put that in quotes because in St Louis our "local" teams are Memphis and Indiana, so it can be a bit more widespread than one might think).
So help me out on this logic problem. Assumptions: 1. The Nets are better with Kyrie. 2. He can't play in home games, including playoffs. 3. The amount that the Nets are better with Kyrie is more better than their home court advantage. THEREFORE AND QED: Should they be aiming for the 8th seed, so as to have four away games in any playoff series?
That's pretty interesting game theory. I agree w Sleepy below, but you're not wrong either. You just went too far.
They're a virtual lock for a top 4 seed, but there's definitely some strategy to how they'd want to match up with the Bucks specifically. Long way to go, but just assuming the end of season standings were just like they are now.
1. Bulls
2. Nets (tied with Bucks)
3. Bucks
4. Miami
5. 76ers
If they're tied with the Bucks it makes a lot of sense to drop a game behind so they not only get Kyrie for a game 7, but also get him for the first two games of the series.
So then they're at #3. They could even consider dropping to #4 to avoid the 2nd round series with the Bucks. But then you're pulling in a matchup against Embiid with bad C's, and if you're in that tougher series...do you want to be #5 so you get the extra game of Kyrie again? It's a slippery slope! I don't think they go that far. Too much manipulation.
Most likely I think the Bucks end up with the 1 seed anyways, and it's moot. But that would be the team where I think they'd try to manipulate to get behind if it's close.
Assuming that’s a serious question: no. The advantage of having Kyrie one extra game (which is only realized if the series goes 5 or 7) is easily outweighed by the disadvantage of playing a tougher opponent and the disadvantage of playing an extra game on the road.
Plus who knows what Kyrie's (or any other player's) status will be when the playoffs roll around. Eg. Nets get the 8th seed and then Kyrie is out for a week due to a mild ankle sprain and now that plan looks absolutely foolish (if it didn't already).
He's always looked not strong enough when he's been out there. He's got those long arms which let him get some balls and defend ok, but gets bumped out of the way too easily (like a younger Jordan Poole). Unless it's a positioning/balance thing, I think we're going to have to wait till next year, unfortunately...
OT: was checking out dunksandthrees.com and they have our 5 best players as: Curry, Payton, Draymond, Wiggins, Poole -- that'd be a really small lineup, but wouldn't it be fun?? Poole and Payton have both played minutes at the 3 according to bbref...
I'd never seen "progression to the mean" before but it instantly made sense and which way things were expected to trend. Sorry to be a solecist but I'm using it from now on!
The Warriors resting Iguodala and OPJ on the front end of the back to back despite the better team being on the front end of the back to back doesn't add up. Makes me think they might be resting Curry on the back end.
Andre Iguodala (Right Knee Soreness) and Otto Porter Jr. (Left Foot Injury Management) are both listed out for the Warriors tonight against the Dallas Mavericks.
Sad we won't have OPJ, but if this is the cost of keeping him in good shape the whole season long it's well worth it. Pretty sure he's added at least a couple wins already by nabbing absolutely clutch rebounds in crunch time, not to mention the ones where his sweet shooting has sealed the deal.
Gonna be real hard to keep him if he keeps playing well and doesn't get injured. I could see lingering question marks around his health keeping him from getting $50M/3 years, but he's definitely getting a bag somewhere...
Given my initial take on the Wiggins trade (which I guess was the same as a lot of people's) I can't believe I'm thinking of it being a priority to get him back. But I am.
Another great story, Duby. I know it's been commented on several times, but let me add my voice to the chorus: the new graphics you guys are doing on the Dubs HQ stories are superb.
> the new graphics you guys are doing on the Dubs HQ stories are superb.
Thanks so much! Honestly, I just felt bad shaking Ivan and Daniel down so often. And another shout out to the subscribers for affording me an honest to goodness photoshop/illustrator program license. No more MS Paint!
"Even when I do come back to play, whenever that is, it's going to be on a minutes restriction and it's going to build throughout the whole season and hopefully peak when it's winning time. Which is all the time, but when it really, really matters."
Love the article. Hate the "pecking order" way of evaluating players. Wiggins isn't the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd guy. He's the guy who does Wiggins things like defend wings, cut, catch & shoot, create for himself and performs at a high level.
EDIT: Clearly there's some PR work going around to get Wiggins to the All Star game... which is great to see.
Agreed on both counts. Great article, but that was an odd comment based on 2000's 3-star team NBA. Wiggs is a star, but not a superstar. He's been so good I've begun to rethink my we've gotta let him walk in '23 view. I just don't know how we keep Wiggs & JP3.
Those two are "The bridge to the future". Wise, Kuminga, and Moody are just "The future". If Lacob lets Wiggs OR Poole walk, he's giving up on the bridge. It's gonna be expensive, but if there's any owner that's shown willingness to pay through the nose for a great team, it's Lacob.
Getting rid of the "pecking order" mindset is one of the underrated ways that the Warriors "broke" the league. Positionless basketball isn't just about where they play on the floor, but also who gets to shoot the ball when. Any given guy can be "the guy" on any night, and everyone else is perfectly fine with that. That's why the team can still win even when Steph only scores 9!
ok, Game Thread will go up about 10 minutes prior to the game
Whooa... I did not pay attention to the start time. I guess I'll be watching the first half vicariously...
Lol same. These day games are real tough for me
The "Poole moving to the bench is a demotion" media comments are off base. The 6th man role comes with a lot of history and a lot of responsibility. It will be on him to push the 2nd unit, to score, to involve others and one of his biggest responsibilities may be put together a successful P&R game with Wiseman. If they can find some success in that, that will get Wiseman a little more time on the floor.
More importantly, it's about who finishes games and, if the Warriors need to score, a 5-man unit of Steph-Poole-Klay-Wiggs-Dray will be pretty deadly. I suspect Klay may split his time between the 2 and 3 from here on out in his career. Won't make any difference to him, just a less stressful defensive assignment. And this will leave the door open for more minutes to share the floor with Poole. There will always be minutes for the guys who can make a difference.
What matters is how Poole feels about it. I'm sure he'll accept it for this season but 22 year olds with tons of confidence generally aren't eager to be coming off of the bench for most of their 20s. It seems like an issue down the line because Poole is probably best as a PG and the Warriors have Curry. I could definitely see Poole on another team in a few years.
> More importantly, it's about who finishes games
Tell that to the players.
Unfortunately, this is exactly how I see it too... They gotta get him and Andre a ring this year. That way, every time he goes home he gets a reminder of what he's accomplished, and every time he goes into the office, his strength & finance coach (newly retired Andre Iguodala, who strangely wears all 4 championship rings all the time) can remind him that winning championships as the 6th man isn't so bad... especially when he's logging 30mpg.
In the '23 offseason, Poole will be RFA, so the Warriors can match any offer he gets. I suppose he could refuse to sign anything other than the QO, become unrestricted after '24 offseason, and bolt... but by the '24 offseason, Steph will be 36, and Poole would be the heir apparent. You gotta figure he'd consider sticking around for that...
Jordan Poole came off the bench as a senior at La Lumiere High School, when he played with Jaren Jackson.
Jordan Poole came off the bench as a freshman at University of Michigan, when he earned all-big 10 academic honors.
He's going to be fine with this role.
W's haven't had a 6th man of this caliber since Iguodala. They're totally different players, obviously, both phenomenal talents.
Just don't try and put him in a box.
I always think of Justin Timberlake when I see comments like this...
Thank you, you just made my day.
FYI
**
Some flex scheduling: NBA TV now televising the Warriors-Cavs game on Sunday instead of the Timberwolves-Rockets game
https://twitter.com/markg_medina/status/1478858627431550976?s=21
That wasn't a lot of flexing to make that decision.
More households have NBA TV than NBC Sports Bay Area (and the Cleveland equivalent).
Is NBA TV part of standard cable packages now (cut the cord ages ago)? Aside from trying to workaround League Pass blackouts for NBA TV games, I don't think I ever hear about NBA TV otherwise...
It's commonly included with basic sports packages. Generally if you have anything more than the very basic set you probably have it. Still a lot more TVs than just local affiliates (and those affiliates still count, so it's a strict value add in that regard).
Ah right... NBA TV games don't get blacked out locally.
Right, NBA TV is the one that gets blacked out "locally" (I put that in quotes because in St Louis our "local" teams are Memphis and Indiana, so it can be a bit more widespread than one might think).
So help me out on this logic problem. Assumptions: 1. The Nets are better with Kyrie. 2. He can't play in home games, including playoffs. 3. The amount that the Nets are better with Kyrie is more better than their home court advantage. THEREFORE AND QED: Should they be aiming for the 8th seed, so as to have four away games in any playoff series?
That's pretty interesting game theory. I agree w Sleepy below, but you're not wrong either. You just went too far.
They're a virtual lock for a top 4 seed, but there's definitely some strategy to how they'd want to match up with the Bucks specifically. Long way to go, but just assuming the end of season standings were just like they are now.
1. Bulls
2. Nets (tied with Bucks)
3. Bucks
4. Miami
5. 76ers
If they're tied with the Bucks it makes a lot of sense to drop a game behind so they not only get Kyrie for a game 7, but also get him for the first two games of the series.
So then they're at #3. They could even consider dropping to #4 to avoid the 2nd round series with the Bucks. But then you're pulling in a matchup against Embiid with bad C's, and if you're in that tougher series...do you want to be #5 so you get the extra game of Kyrie again? It's a slippery slope! I don't think they go that far. Too much manipulation.
Most likely I think the Bucks end up with the 1 seed anyways, and it's moot. But that would be the team where I think they'd try to manipulate to get behind if it's close.
It's a beautiful plan! Approved!
Assuming that’s a serious question: no. The advantage of having Kyrie one extra game (which is only realized if the series goes 5 or 7) is easily outweighed by the disadvantage of playing a tougher opponent and the disadvantage of playing an extra game on the road.
Plus who knows what Kyrie's (or any other player's) status will be when the playoffs roll around. Eg. Nets get the 8th seed and then Kyrie is out for a week due to a mild ankle sprain and now that plan looks absolutely foolish (if it didn't already).
…
And the disadvantage of developing losing habits.
Actually, they want the 10 seed, that insures 2 play in games on the road.
Which means they actually want the 6th seed to avoid the play-ins? But yea, what Sleepy said, in any case.
I never knew Andrew Wiggins' dad played in the NBA!
That means a lineup of: Curry, Thompson, Wiggins, GP2, and OPJ would all have NBA DNA?!
What should that lineup be called?
"NBA DNA" was pretty dope
Not only that, the DNA lineup is one you might actually put on the floor in spurts (GP2 at x-tra small ball center;).
My early Christmas wish is for Moody to catch up to speed so he can join the fun too
I'm giving up Moody for Lent, personally.
You do realize Christmas was almost 2 weeks ago
Are you eastern orthodox?
I would just love to see him get an extended run in the g league honestly
He's always looked not strong enough when he's been out there. He's got those long arms which let him get some balls and defend ok, but gets bumped out of the way too easily (like a younger Jordan Poole). Unless it's a positioning/balance thing, I think we're going to have to wait till next year, unfortunately...
But the Ws already have a young Jordan Poole.
Foine, fixed the language for the Hashemite audience.
The Kingdom thanks you.
OT: was checking out dunksandthrees.com and they have our 5 best players as: Curry, Payton, Draymond, Wiggins, Poole -- that'd be a really small lineup, but wouldn't it be fun?? Poole and Payton have both played minutes at the 3 according to bbref...
538 raptor says it's Curry, Payton, Porter, Dray, Wigz, who've played together for 3 minutes w/ a net rating of 52.4
Well look at that, they've actually played together for 8 minutes this season... 24 net rating, but an unexpected 82/57 offrtg/defrtg
82/57 lawl
sorry to be pedantic, but it's still "regression to the mean" even if it's a positive change
I'd never seen "progression to the mean" before but it instantly made sense and which way things were expected to trend. Sorry to be a solecist but I'm using it from now on!
Ran it by the editor (me) and he approved the language choice :)
But I do appreciate the accuracy of language
Pay no attention to his regressive language choices. We're progressive around here!
That's an aggressive take
The Warriors resting Iguodala and OPJ on the front end of the back to back despite the better team being on the front end of the back to back doesn't add up. Makes me think they might be resting Curry on the back end.
Remember: no Porzingis tonight
I like it.
The Warrior approach now seems to be: Just assume Iguodala is not playing and we'll let you know if we feel like we need him.
He's our Haslem, but we do need/want him to play every so often
a bargain
aww poop, no Otto Porter tonight too (rest)
> @GSWReddit
Andre Iguodala (Right Knee Soreness) and Otto Porter Jr. (Left Foot Injury Management) are both listed out for the Warriors tonight against the Dallas Mavericks.
Expect at least OPJ to be back on Thursday against Pels.
Sad we won't have OPJ, but if this is the cost of keeping him in good shape the whole season long it's well worth it. Pretty sure he's added at least a couple wins already by nabbing absolutely clutch rebounds in crunch time, not to mention the ones where his sweet shooting has sealed the deal.
Gonna be real hard to keep him if he keeps playing well and doesn't get injured. I could see lingering question marks around his health keeping him from getting $50M/3 years, but he's definitely getting a bag somewhere...
Given my initial take on the Wiggins trade (which I guess was the same as a lot of people's) I can't believe I'm thinking of it being a priority to get him back. But I am.
MLE And some Andre tech investing advice. Throw in a Anta shoe deal or some rakuten commercials
I guess Kerr will rest Curry tomorrow.
Another great story, Duby. I know it's been commented on several times, but let me add my voice to the chorus: the new graphics you guys are doing on the Dubs HQ stories are superb.
And thanks for write up about Dirk Night. Dirk was one of my all-time faves, especially after Dallas unexpectedly kicked the Heatles' ass in the 2011 NBA Finals. There's a terrific piece about Dirk on The Athletic's site this morning (behind a paywall): https://theathletic.com/3051137/2022/01/05/we-aint-through-kicking-your-ass-the-essence-of-dirk-nowitzki-in-a-dozen-stories/. The video of him, Nash, and Finley wishing Shaq a happy 30th is a classic, and I'd never seen it.
> the new graphics you guys are doing on the Dubs HQ stories are superb.
Thanks so much! Honestly, I just felt bad shaking Ivan and Daniel down so often. And another shout out to the subscribers for affording me an honest to goodness photoshop/illustrator program license. No more MS Paint!
Never change Klay!
"Even when I do come back to play, whenever that is, it's going to be on a minutes restriction and it's going to build throughout the whole season and hopefully peak when it's winning time. Which is all the time, but when it really, really matters."
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/steve-kerr-explains-plan-klay-thompsons-minutes-upon-return?cid=Yahoo&partner=ya4nbcs
With his interest in Wiseman and Wiggins, I sometimes wonder if KG might be in the Warriors fold one of these days.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32994009/perfect-fit-us-golden-state-warriors-reclamation-former-no-1-pick-andrew-wiggins
Love the article. Hate the "pecking order" way of evaluating players. Wiggins isn't the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd guy. He's the guy who does Wiggins things like defend wings, cut, catch & shoot, create for himself and performs at a high level.
EDIT: Clearly there's some PR work going around to get Wiggins to the All Star game... which is great to see.
Agreed on both counts. Great article, but that was an odd comment based on 2000's 3-star team NBA. Wiggs is a star, but not a superstar. He's been so good I've begun to rethink my we've gotta let him walk in '23 view. I just don't know how we keep Wiggs & JP3.
Those two are "The bridge to the future". Wise, Kuminga, and Moody are just "The future". If Lacob lets Wiggs OR Poole walk, he's giving up on the bridge. It's gonna be expensive, but if there's any owner that's shown willingness to pay through the nose for a great team, it's Lacob.
...and flash that million-dollar smile.
Getting rid of the "pecking order" mindset is one of the underrated ways that the Warriors "broke" the league. Positionless basketball isn't just about where they play on the floor, but also who gets to shoot the ball when. Any given guy can be "the guy" on any night, and everyone else is perfectly fine with that. That's why the team can still win even when Steph only scores 9!
Mavericks stats:
Offense:
26 in points scored (105.1)
30 in points in paint (40.8)
23 in fastbreak points (10.2)
17 in offensive efficiency
22 in shooting % (44.9%)
25 in three point % (33.0%)
8 in two point % !!!!!! (53.7%)
23 in off. rebound % (21.1%)
4 in def. rebound % !!!!!!!!!!!!! (78.9%)
20 in total rebound % (49.5%)
4 in opponent blocks!!!!!!!!!!!!! (4.1)
2 in opponent steals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (6.6)
16 in assists (23.7)
2 in turnovers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (12.3)
Defense:
3 in points allowed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (103.9)
11 in opponent points in paint (44.5)
19 in opponent fastbreak points (12.1)
10 in defensive efficiency!!
19 in opponent shooting % (45.8%)
18 in opponent three point % (35.3%)
16 in opponent two point % (52.2%)
28 in blocks (4.0)
21 in steals (7.1)
14 in opponent assists (23.9)
16 in opponent turnovers (13.9)
Lord of the Rings: Return of the Klay