A note on Klay's return. Has anyone considered how much we as Warriors fans, all the NBA, and dare I say the entire known Universe, have invested in the moment Klay launches his first 3 point shot? Remembering Magic playing in the All-Star game. Any others? Are we talking ESPN or other news outlets going Live for his entrance into the game? Am I overplaying it? Will all Scaffolding work grind to a halt on his return? Will all of China show up late to work? Will everyone wear a headband and hug their dog? Will the Earth's magnetic pole migrate to the South so as to see him at the Chase Center on the way? Will Luke and Laura get back together? The anticipation is killing me.
Kevin Love and the Cavs are apparently working toward a buyout . . . the Warriors are almost certainly going to be interested. I'm a bit worried that the Lakers might grab him since he's friends with LBJ/Westbrook.
Nice deal for PDX, imo. Not earth-shattering, but the type of thing that makes you think maybe we shouldn’t be handing out final final off-season grades just yet.
I was going to write this in yesterday's open thread, but I'm glad I didn't because it fits so much better here:
There is a fair amount of uncertainty regarding what Klay will look like next season, with the most positive saying he'll be back 100% and the 2nd most negative saying he'll be old Kyle Korver (who, if you'll remember could shoot the lights out and then give up more points on D such that he was mostly unplayable). The most negative think he's done but I am not going to think about that.
Like anyone with a soul I have always loved the way Klay approaches the game (and life) and so I am dying to have him back at 100%. Based on what we know, even if that is possible, it seems unlikely that he will be there the first time he steps on the court. He won't have had nearly as much recovery time as KD and almost all other examples took a while to really get their seas legs back. The general consensus seems to be that, day one, he'll still be a great shooter with most of the concern revolving around his ability to play D and maybe to move off ball. If we accept that to be true, I still end up pretty optimistic that he will be a net positive even in the short term.
Offensively, last year's team just needed a guy who could shoot. If Klay he'd been standing still on the opposite side of the floor last year and just waiting for someone to pass him the ball, he probably makes the team 3 points better a game. Somewhere, somehow, even if it's with the 2nd string, punishing the other team's bench he's gonna make it a bit easier for this year's team to score even if he actually is old Korver and there is a lot fo reason to hope expect better than that.
Defensively, I just can't figure out how to project it. I mean he never relied on uber athleticism in the first place, so will he really lose THAT much? I guess it remains to be seen, but let's assume he can no longer contain the other team's best guard (at least for most of this season). It feels like this year's roster has some pretty good defenders and so it seems likely that the coaching staff can devise a system to pretty good defensively even with a reduced Klay on the floor.
Basically, in any scenario where Klay can play at all, I have a lot of reason to believe that overall, the team will be more effective over 48 minutes than they would be without him from day 1 (ok, maybe day 7) and a fair amount of reason to hope that, as he works his way back, he will add more and more to the team so that they are, as many of hope, really scary come playoff time regardless of seed.
And lastly, Warrior basketball is just more fun to watch when Klay is on the floor!
Well said. The static about Klay never being Klay or can he be 100% is just that, static. We know enough to project with a pretty high probability that he will still be one of the best shooters in the league, he will still space the floor, he will play good positional defense, he will build up his timing and strength over time, he won't be relied on to be the primary defender at POA, he won't be as good by this year's playoffs as he will be the following year when these injuries really get put in the rear view mirror, etc., etc. The problem is, we all get to caught up in his actual play and, in the meantime, forget who the hell we are talking about.
We are talking about Klay (insert expletive here) Thompson. We forget what happens when Steph, Klay & Dray are on the floor at the same time. Those three together are far greater than the sum of their parts. And it's those three together that unlock the offense that dominated the NBA for years, be it with HB, KD or soon-to-be 2-Way Wiggs. Klay has a value and meaning to the team that transcends "how many minutes will he play", "how well will he defend?", etc. Klay is the 3rd leg of the magical basketball tripod that helped transform the NBA. And he will transform the team the minute he steps foot on the floor.
While his body may take time to recover, be assured: Klay is gonna Klay, because that is who Klay is and that is what Klay does. SPLASH! It's more than just 3 points. Infinitely more.
I mean, he probably won't have the conditioning for a 37-point quarter early in the season, but if teams try to defend with a box-and-one when *both* splash bros are on the floor you best believe some fireworks are going to happen.
I would love to see a team box-and-one Steph and dare Klay to beat them. He just keep bombing from outside until he couldn't hold up his arms anymore (conditioning, you know...).
Klay also has a ton of gravity on the court. Positioned correctly that’s one less help defender to rotate around. When you also have Curry’s gravity, it makes defenses much less flexible to cut off drives by Wiggins or Poole or even loading up directly against Curry. Remember KD’s free walks to the basket in the finals vs the Cavs? The trauma of one of those guys taking an open shot means more, and also having two guys like that is more than the sum of it’s parts in terms of defenses adjusting and loading up against various actions and threats. I don’t expect him to right away move like he did, but he’s a shooter on another level, and even if he’s not the ace defender he was, I highly doubt he’s going to be terrible/unplayable on defense. Korver was never a good defender even when he was younger/healthy so seems an odd comparison to make for someone like Klay who had great fundamentals prior to a likely decline from injury.
I agree with the overall assessment, but I don't think anybody is arguing that that Klay will become the same type of bad defender as Korver, just that may be a step slower on defense. A step slower Klay, as you point out, is still a valuable player and a decent defender...
I'm not a doctor and I don't play one on the internet, (wait, maybe I *am* playing one) but i don't see why either the ACL injury or Achilles's injury should slow Thompson down on defense at all. If it was a hip, back or hamstring injury I could see it. Age will do it, but Thompson is only 31 which isn't that old for a professional athlete.
Yeah, for sure no guarantees he does slow down from the injuries, but that's the worry, right? The exercise is about conceptually exploring the worst case outcome where his athleticism and mobility don't come back fully from the injuries. He's still going to be a great shooter, but less impactful otherwise... which is still pretty good.
"is he going to be playing for his next contract? That might mean he doesn't give 100% on defense" We're talking about Klay. I can't imagine him not giving 100% on the court, especially after all the work he has done to come back - twice.
It isn't necessary for Klay to be as good as he was on defense. Wiggins should take up the role defensively that Klay use to. Although, if Klay does approach anywhere near 100%...WGBC!
My guess is that by the time the playoffs start Klay will be near 100%. Doctors are just a lot better reattaching ligaments and tendons than they used to be as are physical therapists. I'm actually a little more concerned about the guys that will have to fill in in his absence; Lee, Poole, and Moody. Lee had a career year last year. Is that his real level of performance? Was Poole's improvement for real? Can Moody exceed expectations for a rookie? The good news is that their schedule isn't too bad until they get to the end of Novemeber at which point there are a lot of games against teams that expect to be in the playoffs.
Good questions, and I think the answer to all of them is 'yes.' Lee was good in his chance last year but not otherworldly. I think it's quite reasonable to think that he would mostly repeat what he did. Poole is more of a question mark, but judging from his body and performance in off-season games, it looks like he isn't resting on his laurels but is continuing to work -- a good sign. Moody is the biggest wild card, but with zero real game data, I'm going to declare upfront that he's going to be surprisingly good and will get into the rotation before the playoffs. Optimism abounds!
Good point about the advances in treatment and surgery. To throw out one recent example among many; Chris Sale got back from Tommy John surgery just a couple weeks ago, and is now 3-0 with a 2.35 era, 21 K / 3 BB, and was hitting 98 mph in the 6th inning last night.
Which is mostly fine, since it will make it easier to justify taking him out of games early with foul trouble instead of convincing him that a minutes restrictions is for his own good. I old enough to remember him trying to get back on defense with a missing ACL.
Translation: Five-time All-Star Kevin Love has no interest in discussing a contract buyout on the two-years, $60M left on his Cleveland Cavaliers deal at the current amount being offered, so I’m taking this public to show we’re willing to play hardball., agent Jeff Schwartz of
A note on Klay's return. Has anyone considered how much we as Warriors fans, all the NBA, and dare I say the entire known Universe, have invested in the moment Klay launches his first 3 point shot? Remembering Magic playing in the All-Star game. Any others? Are we talking ESPN or other news outlets going Live for his entrance into the game? Am I overplaying it? Will all Scaffolding work grind to a halt on his return? Will all of China show up late to work? Will everyone wear a headband and hug their dog? Will the Earth's magnetic pole migrate to the South so as to see him at the Chase Center on the way? Will Luke and Laura get back together? The anticipation is killing me.
Yes, and a wolf shall live with a lamb, and a leopard shall lie with a kid. :)
I don't think that's legal in most states anymore but I'm sure they'll make an exception for Klay.
True, Isaiah is old school, probably not legal anymore.
Kevin Love and the Cavs are apparently working toward a buyout . . . the Warriors are almost certainly going to be interested. I'm a bit worried that the Lakers might grab him since he's friends with LBJ/Westbrook.
Is Love old enough to be on the Lakers???
His body is.
When he couldn't stay healthy for Team USA, that set off red alerts for me.
I think they're talking about Mike Love of the Beach Boys. His age would certainly qualify.
If the Laker's get Mike Love of the Beach Boys, the league just isn't fair.
What’s Love got to do with it, got to do with it?
Love is all you need. But maybe not Kevin.
You all are killing me.
Such is life
Great work Apricot!
I didn't fact check but Belly 50/66 from 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBLDm9xRxUU
Still crazy how Barbosa and Livingston are on the team lol
If by crazy you mean WONDERFUL. But yes it is crazy 😊
Shaun pulling in the double salary from the Warriors too I think.
I think he's still being paid for his player contract that the Warriors waived and I'm assuming he's also paid for his FO role too. 😀
Shaun, Leandro…
Andre, Steph, Klay, Dray, Andre, Loon…
Kerr, Adams…
Come back, Harry B?
Zaza
*Shaun :-)
I'm... just gonna see myself out, thanks.
OT: Shamsbomb.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1431287193918742531
Nice deal for PDX, imo. Not earth-shattering, but the type of thing that makes you think maybe we shouldn’t be handing out final final off-season grades just yet.
I was going to write this in yesterday's open thread, but I'm glad I didn't because it fits so much better here:
There is a fair amount of uncertainty regarding what Klay will look like next season, with the most positive saying he'll be back 100% and the 2nd most negative saying he'll be old Kyle Korver (who, if you'll remember could shoot the lights out and then give up more points on D such that he was mostly unplayable). The most negative think he's done but I am not going to think about that.
Like anyone with a soul I have always loved the way Klay approaches the game (and life) and so I am dying to have him back at 100%. Based on what we know, even if that is possible, it seems unlikely that he will be there the first time he steps on the court. He won't have had nearly as much recovery time as KD and almost all other examples took a while to really get their seas legs back. The general consensus seems to be that, day one, he'll still be a great shooter with most of the concern revolving around his ability to play D and maybe to move off ball. If we accept that to be true, I still end up pretty optimistic that he will be a net positive even in the short term.
Offensively, last year's team just needed a guy who could shoot. If Klay he'd been standing still on the opposite side of the floor last year and just waiting for someone to pass him the ball, he probably makes the team 3 points better a game. Somewhere, somehow, even if it's with the 2nd string, punishing the other team's bench he's gonna make it a bit easier for this year's team to score even if he actually is old Korver and there is a lot fo reason to hope expect better than that.
Defensively, I just can't figure out how to project it. I mean he never relied on uber athleticism in the first place, so will he really lose THAT much? I guess it remains to be seen, but let's assume he can no longer contain the other team's best guard (at least for most of this season). It feels like this year's roster has some pretty good defenders and so it seems likely that the coaching staff can devise a system to pretty good defensively even with a reduced Klay on the floor.
Basically, in any scenario where Klay can play at all, I have a lot of reason to believe that overall, the team will be more effective over 48 minutes than they would be without him from day 1 (ok, maybe day 7) and a fair amount of reason to hope that, as he works his way back, he will add more and more to the team so that they are, as many of hope, really scary come playoff time regardless of seed.
And lastly, Warrior basketball is just more fun to watch when Klay is on the floor!
Well said. The static about Klay never being Klay or can he be 100% is just that, static. We know enough to project with a pretty high probability that he will still be one of the best shooters in the league, he will still space the floor, he will play good positional defense, he will build up his timing and strength over time, he won't be relied on to be the primary defender at POA, he won't be as good by this year's playoffs as he will be the following year when these injuries really get put in the rear view mirror, etc., etc. The problem is, we all get to caught up in his actual play and, in the meantime, forget who the hell we are talking about.
We are talking about Klay (insert expletive here) Thompson. We forget what happens when Steph, Klay & Dray are on the floor at the same time. Those three together are far greater than the sum of their parts. And it's those three together that unlock the offense that dominated the NBA for years, be it with HB, KD or soon-to-be 2-Way Wiggs. Klay has a value and meaning to the team that transcends "how many minutes will he play", "how well will he defend?", etc. Klay is the 3rd leg of the magical basketball tripod that helped transform the NBA. And he will transform the team the minute he steps foot on the floor.
While his body may take time to recover, be assured: Klay is gonna Klay, because that is who Klay is and that is what Klay does. SPLASH! It's more than just 3 points. Infinitely more.
Agreed!!! It's really hard to explain, let alone convince people just how much those three transcend the game.
Those three healthy with depth behind them is scarier than any team in the west, hell I'd even argue the whole league.
We've seen them do it, and with this plan of competing/developing, they can do it again. WGBC... again
I mean, he probably won't have the conditioning for a 37-point quarter early in the season, but if teams try to defend with a box-and-one when *both* splash bros are on the floor you best believe some fireworks are going to happen.
I would love to see a team box-and-one Steph and dare Klay to beat them. He just keep bombing from outside until he couldn't hold up his arms anymore (conditioning, you know...).
Klay also has a ton of gravity on the court. Positioned correctly that’s one less help defender to rotate around. When you also have Curry’s gravity, it makes defenses much less flexible to cut off drives by Wiggins or Poole or even loading up directly against Curry. Remember KD’s free walks to the basket in the finals vs the Cavs? The trauma of one of those guys taking an open shot means more, and also having two guys like that is more than the sum of it’s parts in terms of defenses adjusting and loading up against various actions and threats. I don’t expect him to right away move like he did, but he’s a shooter on another level, and even if he’s not the ace defender he was, I highly doubt he’s going to be terrible/unplayable on defense. Korver was never a good defender even when he was younger/healthy so seems an odd comparison to make for someone like Klay who had great fundamentals prior to a likely decline from injury.
I agree with the overall assessment, but I don't think anybody is arguing that that Klay will become the same type of bad defender as Korver, just that may be a step slower on defense. A step slower Klay, as you point out, is still a valuable player and a decent defender...
I'm not a doctor and I don't play one on the internet, (wait, maybe I *am* playing one) but i don't see why either the ACL injury or Achilles's injury should slow Thompson down on defense at all. If it was a hip, back or hamstring injury I could see it. Age will do it, but Thompson is only 31 which isn't that old for a professional athlete.
Yeah, for sure no guarantees he does slow down from the injuries, but that's the worry, right? The exercise is about conceptually exploring the worst case outcome where his athleticism and mobility don't come back fully from the injuries. He's still going to be a great shooter, but less impactful otherwise... which is still pretty good.
"is he going to be playing for his next contract? That might mean he doesn't give 100% on defense" We're talking about Klay. I can't imagine him not giving 100% on the court, especially after all the work he has done to come back - twice.
I think Rocco is more focused on food & toys...
It isn't necessary for Klay to be as good as he was on defense. Wiggins should take up the role defensively that Klay use to. Although, if Klay does approach anywhere near 100%...WGBC!
My guess is that by the time the playoffs start Klay will be near 100%. Doctors are just a lot better reattaching ligaments and tendons than they used to be as are physical therapists. I'm actually a little more concerned about the guys that will have to fill in in his absence; Lee, Poole, and Moody. Lee had a career year last year. Is that his real level of performance? Was Poole's improvement for real? Can Moody exceed expectations for a rookie? The good news is that their schedule isn't too bad until they get to the end of Novemeber at which point there are a lot of games against teams that expect to be in the playoffs.
Good questions, and I think the answer to all of them is 'yes.' Lee was good in his chance last year but not otherworldly. I think it's quite reasonable to think that he would mostly repeat what he did. Poole is more of a question mark, but judging from his body and performance in off-season games, it looks like he isn't resting on his laurels but is continuing to work -- a good sign. Moody is the biggest wild card, but with zero real game data, I'm going to declare upfront that he's going to be surprisingly good and will get into the rotation before the playoffs. Optimism abounds!
Good point about the advances in treatment and surgery. To throw out one recent example among many; Chris Sale got back from Tommy John surgery just a couple weeks ago, and is now 3-0 with a 2.35 era, 21 K / 3 BB, and was hitting 98 mph in the 6th inning last night.
And, of course, there's the whole "KD's the best player in the world right now" thing.
*2nd best
I was referencing the national media story where they're saying that :-P
Of course, the actual best player in the world got zero votes, but it's expected at this point.
Always hoping that he uses it as motivation.
I do love petty Steph...
Which is mostly fine, since it will make it easier to justify taking him out of games early with foul trouble instead of convincing him that a minutes restrictions is for his own good. I old enough to remember him trying to get back on defense with a missing ACL.
Translation: Five-time All-Star Kevin Love has no interest in discussing a contract buyout on the two-years, $60M left on his Cleveland Cavaliers deal at the current amount being offered, so I’m taking this public to show we’re willing to play hardball., agent Jeff Schwartz of
At least he’s not going to the Lakers
He has to know that this is the last time in his career that he'll see $30M/year. Might as well collect it, I guess.
Haha, no one has every asked me that… on the shots in the video:
6,4,0,0,2,0,0,0,3,0,7,0,0… 22 dribbles, 13 shots
That's a lot of dribbles for Klay. Must have been an off day...