Looks like LeBron, Clutch and the Lakers are well positioned to put the Warrior's hand to the fire in negotiating with Draymond. That's a division rival doing its best to sabotage another team when they have no desire to actually pick Draymond up. Not that it couldn't happen, but does LeBron really want Dray on his team sucking up his media oxygen? I seriously doubt that.
Are there any other teams out there willing to play chicken with the Warriors that would make sense for Dray to go to?
It wouldn't make sense from a team structure standpoint, I think, but LeBron and Draymond both playing on the Lakers would sure be fruitful for league drama.
I'd be super interested to see what the split would be here if the only options were to ship #23 or #3. My guess from the comments might be as high as 25% for Dray to go.
How high % think we can't move forward with both Dray & Poole? Nudging 95%, maybe? And the FO and Kerr are 100% sure these guys can continue playing together. There is a disconnect there.
Then ask your question but add, would you still elect Dray over Poole if it ALSO means it is at Kuminga's expense? In a vacuum, I'm taking Dray over Poole. But I am changing my tune if this choice results in losing JK as well.
In fact, if I had to choose one of Dray, Poole or JK, I'm sticking with JK because I can get some real value back in trades if I am shipping both Dray and Poole out. But even this choice is influenced by a) Dray's age and the belief that the Warriors system can't evolve as long as he is there and b) the organization did Poole wrong and he deserves a fresh start with a new team.
There are so many working parts to these questions. And of all the different paths that lie before the team, all we hear is, "no problem here, let's run it back, tweak the edges." One thing is sure, that 100% ain't gonna work.
I think they can move forward with Draymond and Poole. I think the real issue that was there before the punch is that they can't move forward with Curry and Poole, and I know who I'm choosing out of those two. Poole makes too much money to come off the bench but he cannot be a starting 2 guard for a team with championship aspirations.
I had been looking for clear explanation of impact of exceeding the second apron with respect to draft picks, and the explanation linked below finally made sense to me.
*After* the end of upcoming season: "If the Warriors are a second-apron team in 24-25, 25-26, and 26-27, their 2032 first pick would be moved to the end of the first round". Exceeding the second apron this year does not have impact on draft pick position.
So a team trades their 2032 FRP in 23-24 to, say, Minnesota. Then the team exceeds the second apron in 24-25, 25-26, and 26-27. What happens? Does the pick stay with Minnesota and just move to the back of the round? Does it revert back to the original team and move to the back of the round? Does it stay with Minnesota and not move because its now their pick and, if so, is some other punishment imposed on the original team?
True. Often teams with bloated payrolls have crashed and burned by the 7 year mark, which should make that pick very valuable in trade or by keeping it. Thus, that becomes a mechanism for resurrecting the franchise. But this rule could punish a 20-win team for what the GM did 7-10 years ago, further delaying their return to competitiveness. Doesn't seem wise.
You think Dwight Howard has enough left in the tank? McClung is RFA so if the Sixers want to keep him, we're not getting him. I'm still not 100% sold on him anyway but hey, maybe.
To say kuminga doesn't have the offensive versatility to play the 3 is crazy. This is at 20 years old in an end of the year important playoff seeding game. You can not deny the potential whatsoever
That video didn’t look like a wing lol… was being guarded by a center or big most of the time. Not making many pull up or spot up shots. Mostly driving by said larger players or banging with them at the rim. Moody and Lamb are connectors when around Curry. Quick decisions. Kuminga could be great one day but that’d require us to sacrifice Curry’s effectiveness.
Kuminga made much quicker decisions then moody all year, saying we have to sacrifice curry's effectiveness to make kuminga great is ridiculous, there's no reason a Curry klay Wiggins kuminga Draymond lineup can't be dominate(on paper) if kuminga takes a step
The excessive distinction is what surprises me. I thought we were past the concept of bruiser power forwards who rebound and mean mug, while small forwards gently score. Charles Oakley is not walking through that door. Alex English is not right behind him.
Why can't Kuminga shoot, rebound, pass, defend whatever best fits for the game needs? Pretty sure I saw Draymond play center this one time ... etc.
Sorry… that’s a future PF to my eye. But if the shot comes around and he gets a little more comfortable making decisions a little better and a little faster, he can play the 3. We’ll see!
If he can hit at 35% and up not just in the corner but all around the key and tighten up his handle were talking about a 2 way perimeter wing, why tf would you not go all in on developing that
Jonathan Kuminga is still learning to play basketball.
He has incredible athletic talents but has not played basketball his whole life and still needs to develop an understanding of how to play the game at the highest level.
(my opinions)
As I remember many of the Warriors said similar things last year. This offseason he himself said he was planning on playing a lot of open gym games to gain experience. It just takes time.
He seems like he is a smart young man and wants to do what he can to better himself. It must be frustrating to have the physical abilities to do what he can do and feel that he is being held back as coaches want him to master more all around knowledge of the game to fit in with the team. NBA players get paid huge sums of money mainly based on offensive numbers and he was asked to concentrate on defense last season, and now this offseason to rebound more.
If he keeps his faith in the Warriors and shows his determination to become a complete ball player, I feel he will be rewarded with a long and successful career.
He is still young. Fans understandably want him to contribute, but I do think the Warriors coaches and management are looking at his long term development.
He has played basketball his whole life. OK, he started when he was four. But I think you mean "not in the US/AAU developmental circuit," which is true.
But of course he isn't a completed project. He needs to work on every single aspect of his game. That's not been the question. The question is: given where he is *right now*, what do you do with him? I presume my answer is already on record.
If he would be more focused and play hard, I'd like to see him soak up a bunch of G-league minutes. I do think he needs NBA minutes too, but if they're not going to play him regularly, he should get some playing time in Santa Cruz and work on his handle, cutting without the ball, rebounding, etc. I think that's true for all of the young guys. They can rotate between watching from the NBA bench and getting in for a few minutes (there's learning in both of those too and playing LOTS of G-league minutes.
OK, not sure how much "real basketball' anybody plays at 4 yrs. old.
I probably meant high quality competitive basketball his whole life. I don't really know for sure but watching him and hearing comments it is clear he is still learning the game.
What to do with him now... I'd think is probably what the Warriors have been doing the past two seasons... playing when the coaches feel he can help and learn and coaching him to improve.
Most players are not completed projects and it seems sometimes their eagerness for increases in minutes and salaries can overtake their realization of what is in the best interests for their teams and their long term careers.
Fans want to see more of the end results. I hope that JK has the patience as a 20 yr. old to apply himself to picking up all of the aspects of the game that will benefit him.
Asher, I received a communication that was intended for you, and I meant to pass it along sooner. Sorry about that!
Here it is:
Asher — You’re doing a great job as my publicist, and I want you to know I appreciate it! I’m so impressed that I am increasing your retainer. Keep up the great work! Sincerely, JK
Why would you not be doing everything in your power to develop his "offensive versatility" to play the 3. Curry klay Wiggins/ an improved kuminga and Draymond is a crazy lineup
We do not necessarily have to define Wiggs or JK as playing 3 or 4; both can defend 3s and 4s, so when they're both on the court, labels might not be so meaningful.
By all accounts, we can expect little to no changes to the roster. This is what I came away with from the Lacob/DunDun chat. They like our team the way it is. LMFAO. Really? They liked our road record, the disconnection between core and punching bag, the frustration of Kuminga not getting playing time? I guess they've made their bed and must lie in it. When you are thwarted by the financial penalties that the Warriors face, what else can you do but love the one you're with, says Crosby, Stills, & Nash. So, we'll add a draft pick and pick up a few vet mins. Isn't that what we've always done?
Dunleavy specifically said he wanted Kuminga to get more playing time, so there's that. Two big issues this past season were over-reliance on the young players being able to produce, then not using them; and our two unproductive FA signings (Igoudala and JMG). If Moody and JK have improved and indeed get regular minutes, that partially addresses the first one, although we also need to see whether Ryan and PBJ (and our draft pick if we keep him) can contribute.
The FA situation remains to be seen. I expect Igoudala will retire, but there's no way to project who Dunleavy will sign. We don't know about the 2-ways either.
I'm more concerned about whether Draymond (assuming he comes back) and Poole can coexist on the team without continuing the bad feelings from the past season.
Went and read the Athletic article. It’s about the process between FO and Coaches and this sounds like a strained and soon to be broken relationship between coach and FO with Kerr on an expiring.
Not a recipe for a smooth year. And with Dunleavy’s already tenuous relationship with the fanbase it could get really interesting if he is the guy that pushes the team into a new era prematurely.
I am very happy that this will be the route actually - get the chemistry right, and if not by the mid season trade deadline make the changes. For now, lets try and add some fringe pieces only
It's actually Stephen Stills, solo. While Nash and Crosby provided backup vocals, it was a Stills solo album. Although to be fair, the lines very much blurred between CSN and Y on any given song, tour or album. Not your traditional we-are-a-band band.
I see your roster frustration, but I would ask: what would you choose instead?
I understand why the team chooses their successful formula. It's worked more times than not, but it doesn't account for development and the future of the team. It's also become boring to me, not Steph, but the rest of the team. Poole has been the only breath of fresh air in recent memory. They got lucky with Bjeli and OPJ. Bjeli deflated by the end of the season, but Poole saved the team's ass.
The old guard stands in the way of the new in the sense that they have chosen to double down on them. This may simply be a decision that is forced on them because of their insane spending on old players locking them in and locking out new talent. It's a good spin because logic is in their favor. Who can argue with 4 rings? I think we really know the reality behind all of this. They have little choice but to love the one they're with. As a fan, you want to see an evolution and that is what is not happening any longer. So my choices have nothing to do with the way the team thinks or acts. It's just me wasting time and energy, something we are told to do by our peers. If there was a real possibility of adding a player or more from a list, I would choose. This is pin the tail on the donkey to me.
"It's also become boring to me, not Steph, but the rest of the team." Yeah, winning is sooo boring. Not Mickey Mantle but the rest of the team... you know, like Ford and Berra.
Depends on the player. For Wiggins, it meant that they hoped to sign him to an extension (which they did). For DLo, it meant "We're going to trade this guy as soon as we can find a sucker to take him..." For Kuminga and Poole? I hope it means the former.
I can go either way, but for those hoping Dray will move on, at least for today, one day at a time, he's not on the team. It may be short-lived, so better put your feet up and light a stogie. Enjoy it while you can.
Kawakami quote: They’ll consider all options, but the working premise is that it’d take some whopper offers for them to consider moving Poole and/or Kuminga.
Oh, I’m not suggesting he’s giving wrong info — just that he’s giving info that sounds a bit like Warriors PR. The real question (to me) is whether they’re actively making calls or just politely fielding them on the off chance they’ll get a “whopper offer.”
The real question to me is NOT whether they are actively calling or not as long as they really would hold out for a whopper offer. The real question to me is whether they can get that whopper offer
In case you wanted something to worry about that is probably minor but could feel bigger than that:
**
Source: Shaun Livingston will not be with the Warriors next season. He spent the last three seasons in the front office as director of players affairs and engagement
The decision was Livingston’s to spend more time with family. Livingston won’t be living in the Bay Area
Perhaps overthinking all of this, Sherlock? Brown and Jama got better offers, more growth. Bob was burned out. Shaun, have no idea about or care. His life, his decision. Lacob rules.
Yes, people have been leaving and there seems to definitely be a pattern of turn over. For whatever reasons, I'll probably never know for sure.
The important thing now is how the vacancies will be filled. We see Mike Dunleavy Jr. taking Bob Myers place. We'll see how that works out but I'm glad it was not a younger Lacob.
Coaches and scouts are (IMO) underrated aspects to NBA basketball teams, so I'm curious how the Ws fill Jama and Shaun's positions.
Brown leaving is totally understandable. He wanted to be a HC again and Sacramento provided a great opportunity. Myers is probably truly burnt out. Nearly a decade of high stress GMing (dealing with Joe, Durant, Dray, etc). Shaun was only with the FO because of Myers, Myers ask him to come aboard. Jama hurts, because he left for pretty much a lateral move. However, it was to go back home. Young guys haven't explicitly asked out. JK ask for a more defined role or he would want to seek that role elsewhere.
Sure these loses all hurt, but they don't directly point to something bigger going on, but we shall see how this offseason and season progresses.
On the Beal trade, it feels to me like one part new owner getting excited; one part bargain shopping with a team that had painted itself into a corner; and one part shrewd, aggressive response to a belief that the conference now runs through Denver—which a lot of folks have been reluctant to acknowledge.
Thing about Denver is that while they're clearly not a juggernaut on the level of the Durant Warriors, they do present an unusual challenge because their offensive attack is so totally unfazed by playoff defense. Miami played them the best of any team in this year's playoffs, and the Nuggets still managed an offensive rating over 115. (That was the only series where they didn't *exceed* their regular season ORtg). Compare that to last year's champion W's, who absolutely torched Dallas and Denver, but saw their Ortg drop by ten points or more against Memphis and Boston; or, if you prefer, compare it to the 2015 W's, who never matched their regular season ORtg in any playoff series).
That doesn't mean Denver is unstoppable by any means (nor that they're as good a team overall as those Warrior champs). But in order to beat them in a 7 game series, you're going to have to score at a borderline elite level *even if* you're defending really well (which you also must do). In other words, the minimum threshold for offensive efficiency against them is just really, really high. The list of teams that can clear it in a playoff context is likely to be short. Phoenix may well have put themselves on it, and while I think the Beal trade makes sense on its face, it makes even more in that context.
The Beal trade is one of those rare trades where it looks bad for everyone. From a raw asset trading perspective, it looks like a colossal steal for PHX. There's just a question of the basketball fit and whether the cap will prevent them from fielding a deep enough team.
Looks great for Steph and the Dubs. When KD fails again to win a championship, it will just be more proof that it was the warriors that win and not just KD as those annoying national folks keep talking about…
The annoying thing is that if they decide to blow it up they can still pawn an old Durant and Beal off for probably still a first each to a desperate team
Haha well it's definitely bad for Washington if you consider the totality of how they handled the last year or two with Beal.
I guess the thing I like for Phoenix is that, while the natural inclination might have been to go shopping for defenders, a) they've seized the opportunity that presented itself, and b) they seem well-positioned for a short-term reality where table stakes in the west involve pretty insane levels of offensive firepower.
The heats offense is nothing like the Dubs offense when they are in championship mode. Wonder how the offense holds up when Denver is chasing Curry off screens all game. It will certainly look different than it did against the Heat.
The Ws just need to do a better job of resting Curry so that he doesn't wear out in the playoffs. That Kings series was rough on him. He rose to the occasion, but that was costly.
It would help if Klay, Poole, and Wiggs could carry their share of the load. Even though it's magnificent that Steph can go for 50, he shouldn't have too all that often.
Alc just mentioned that our #2 prospect, Jordan Hawkins is a generational system fit. Apparently, they run a lot of Dubs' sets for him @ UConn. He thinks he would slot right in and make an impact immediately.
I think he’s getting pretty overvalued in the draft, and I’m not convinced we need a rookie off the bench to run around looking for catch and shoot opportunities. Would rather look for that ability in free agency or the G league if we feel like we need it while already having moody, poole, and pbj on the roster.
Honestly, if we're going to move JP3 for a Suns player, I'd kinda prefer Ayton. I'd prefer to pin my hopes on the possibility that Ayton just needs a new coach and a change of scenery to unlock his potential.
In that scenario, obv. TJ or RR would have to take a big step up to become backup PG.
Saw Ayton live in College and have been surprised at how well he’s done in the pros. That guy had zero motor and disappeared for long stretches. Maybe it’s fine if he’s the only paycheck player on your team.
Why am I so not excited for this Dubs' offseason? It really feels like they're kinda stuck in a rut and the only potential improvement next season has to be internal? I get that JP3 could be traded, but what could be brought back that would be more helpful than JP was this last season unless they package JK or more of the youth movement, which makes me sad. OTOH, it seems like just not enough to pin my hopes on improvements from the youth brigade.
We're cap constrained, the league took away the mid level, we're losing our 4th best player in DDV (or 5th/6th depending on which advanced metric you like), the only positive value trade assets we have are our rotation players, there are no good ring chaser vet mins, and Draymond just opted out of his player option.
- JK and MM looked like they were going to take a step forward last year.
- GP2 healthy just means fewer minutes for JK and MM.
- Steph, Klay, and Dray a year older means there will be multiple months missed, and will likely offset any benefit of a healthy Wiggs.
- A vet like DDV? turnstile Green?
- sigh @ Kerr. Will he even play PBJ and RR?
I think my biggest hope is that JK truly has a breakout year and becomes the 6th man in the rotation, first sub in on injury, and changes the whole complexion of the team. But I'm kinda expecting just a few baby-steps from him, and more pouting on the bench.
Then I would say this. At the end of the day its sports. Not every season is gonna end in a championship. It is up to you to find something you enjoy in the game if you are gonna invest time in the team this upcoming season.
Looks like LeBron, Clutch and the Lakers are well positioned to put the Warrior's hand to the fire in negotiating with Draymond. That's a division rival doing its best to sabotage another team when they have no desire to actually pick Draymond up. Not that it couldn't happen, but does LeBron really want Dray on his team sucking up his media oxygen? I seriously doubt that.
Are there any other teams out there willing to play chicken with the Warriors that would make sense for Dray to go to?
It wouldn't make sense from a team structure standpoint, I think, but LeBron and Draymond both playing on the Lakers would sure be fruitful for league drama.
I'd be super interested to see what the split would be here if the only options were to ship #23 or #3. My guess from the comments might be as high as 25% for Dray to go.
Let's complicate that.
How high % think we can't move forward with both Dray & Poole? Nudging 95%, maybe? And the FO and Kerr are 100% sure these guys can continue playing together. There is a disconnect there.
Then ask your question but add, would you still elect Dray over Poole if it ALSO means it is at Kuminga's expense? In a vacuum, I'm taking Dray over Poole. But I am changing my tune if this choice results in losing JK as well.
In fact, if I had to choose one of Dray, Poole or JK, I'm sticking with JK because I can get some real value back in trades if I am shipping both Dray and Poole out. But even this choice is influenced by a) Dray's age and the belief that the Warriors system can't evolve as long as he is there and b) the organization did Poole wrong and he deserves a fresh start with a new team.
There are so many working parts to these questions. And of all the different paths that lie before the team, all we hear is, "no problem here, let's run it back, tweak the edges." One thing is sure, that 100% ain't gonna work.
I appreciate your thinking. If they Do decide to run it back, I feel it really will be a Last Dance season... Intriguing either way
I think they can move forward with Draymond and Poole. I think the real issue that was there before the punch is that they can't move forward with Curry and Poole, and I know who I'm choosing out of those two. Poole makes too much money to come off the bench but he cannot be a starting 2 guard for a team with championship aspirations.
I had been looking for clear explanation of impact of exceeding the second apron with respect to draft picks, and the explanation linked below finally made sense to me.
*After* the end of upcoming season: "If the Warriors are a second-apron team in 24-25, 25-26, and 26-27, their 2032 first pick would be moved to the end of the first round". Exceeding the second apron this year does not have impact on draft pick position.
Also, can't trade a FRP anymore.
https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1670612089587609606?s=20
So a team trades their 2032 FRP in 23-24 to, say, Minnesota. Then the team exceeds the second apron in 24-25, 25-26, and 26-27. What happens? Does the pick stay with Minnesota and just move to the back of the round? Does it revert back to the original team and move to the back of the round? Does it stay with Minnesota and not move because its now their pick and, if so, is some other punishment imposed on the original team?
That's a good point, they had to have considered that but I haven't seen the answer out there yet
I’d guess Option A (pick stays with Minny and moves to the end of the round). But it’s an interesting question.
Yes. Caveat emptor when dealing with a second-apron team. Will depress the value of far-off FRPs from such team.
Well that’s not going to have any unintended consequences.
True. Often teams with bloated payrolls have crashed and burned by the 7 year mark, which should make that pick very valuable in trade or by keeping it. Thus, that becomes a mechanism for resurrecting the franchise. But this rule could punish a 20-win team for what the GM did 7-10 years ago, further delaying their return to competitiveness. Doesn't seem wise.
Dream lineups (literally the lineups I thought they had next year then woke up.)
Steph
Klay
Wiggins
JK
Looney
Draymond (got a 4x$22 in return for agreeing to come off the bench, and I don’t t know if he can sign for 4 yrs.)
GP2
MM
Poole (returned to pre selfish form)
PBJ
Santos
Dwight Howard
Big Mac McClung
Rollins
You think Dwight Howard has enough left in the tank? McClung is RFA so if the Sixers want to keep him, we're not getting him. I'm still not 100% sold on him anyway but hey, maybe.
C'mon man, stop with the nonsense
https://youtu.be/JKogM9l5exY
To say kuminga doesn't have the offensive versatility to play the 3 is crazy. This is at 20 years old in an end of the year important playoff seeding game. You can not deny the potential whatsoever
That video didn’t look like a wing lol… was being guarded by a center or big most of the time. Not making many pull up or spot up shots. Mostly driving by said larger players or banging with them at the rim. Moody and Lamb are connectors when around Curry. Quick decisions. Kuminga could be great one day but that’d require us to sacrifice Curry’s effectiveness.
Kuminga made much quicker decisions then moody all year, saying we have to sacrifice curry's effectiveness to make kuminga great is ridiculous, there's no reason a Curry klay Wiggins kuminga Draymond lineup can't be dominate(on paper) if kuminga takes a step
The excessive distinction is what surprises me. I thought we were past the concept of bruiser power forwards who rebound and mean mug, while small forwards gently score. Charles Oakley is not walking through that door. Alex English is not right behind him.
Why can't Kuminga shoot, rebound, pass, defend whatever best fits for the game needs? Pretty sure I saw Draymond play center this one time ... etc.
Damn, I was thinking Alex English on a vet min deal would help our scoring. Of course he is 69.
That don’t matter he can still get a bucket. He’s Alex English, he can always get a bucket
Sorry… that’s a future PF to my eye. But if the shot comes around and he gets a little more comfortable making decisions a little better and a little faster, he can play the 3. We’ll see!
If he can hit at 35% and up not just in the corner but all around the key and tighten up his handle were talking about a 2 way perimeter wing, why tf would you not go all in on developing that
OK, I'm going to say it...
Jonathan Kuminga is still learning to play basketball.
He has incredible athletic talents but has not played basketball his whole life and still needs to develop an understanding of how to play the game at the highest level.
(my opinions)
As I remember many of the Warriors said similar things last year. This offseason he himself said he was planning on playing a lot of open gym games to gain experience. It just takes time.
He seems like he is a smart young man and wants to do what he can to better himself. It must be frustrating to have the physical abilities to do what he can do and feel that he is being held back as coaches want him to master more all around knowledge of the game to fit in with the team. NBA players get paid huge sums of money mainly based on offensive numbers and he was asked to concentrate on defense last season, and now this offseason to rebound more.
If he keeps his faith in the Warriors and shows his determination to become a complete ball player, I feel he will be rewarded with a long and successful career.
He is still young. Fans understandably want him to contribute, but I do think the Warriors coaches and management are looking at his long term development.
He has played basketball his whole life. OK, he started when he was four. But I think you mean "not in the US/AAU developmental circuit," which is true.
But of course he isn't a completed project. He needs to work on every single aspect of his game. That's not been the question. The question is: given where he is *right now*, what do you do with him? I presume my answer is already on record.
If he would be more focused and play hard, I'd like to see him soak up a bunch of G-league minutes. I do think he needs NBA minutes too, but if they're not going to play him regularly, he should get some playing time in Santa Cruz and work on his handle, cutting without the ball, rebounding, etc. I think that's true for all of the young guys. They can rotate between watching from the NBA bench and getting in for a few minutes (there's learning in both of those too and playing LOTS of G-league minutes.
OK, not sure how much "real basketball' anybody plays at 4 yrs. old.
I probably meant high quality competitive basketball his whole life. I don't really know for sure but watching him and hearing comments it is clear he is still learning the game.
What to do with him now... I'd think is probably what the Warriors have been doing the past two seasons... playing when the coaches feel he can help and learn and coaching him to improve.
Most players are not completed projects and it seems sometimes their eagerness for increases in minutes and salaries can overtake their realization of what is in the best interests for their teams and their long term careers.
Fans want to see more of the end results. I hope that JK has the patience as a 20 yr. old to apply himself to picking up all of the aspects of the game that will benefit him.
Asher, I received a communication that was intended for you, and I meant to pass it along sooner. Sorry about that!
Here it is:
Asher — You’re doing a great job as my publicist, and I want you to know I appreciate it! I’m so impressed that I am increasing your retainer. Keep up the great work! Sincerely, JK
Thanks so much, sorry about that. I have one back for him if you don't mind sending it along:
LEARN TO REBOUND HOW HARD COULD IT BE YOU'RE 6'7" AND CAN JUMP OUT OF THE BUILDING
tx
“If he can tighten his handle” is not that easy. He can be a great PF too, you know.
Tightening your handle is one of the easier things to do
https://youtu.be/a9dDNNRtWS0
Why would you not be doing everything in your power to develop his "offensive versatility" to play the 3. Curry klay Wiggins/ an improved kuminga and Draymond is a crazy lineup
I love that clip, thanks. Let's get in a time machine to the playoffs and send it to Kerr.
We do not necessarily have to define Wiggs or JK as playing 3 or 4; both can defend 3s and 4s, so when they're both on the court, labels might not be so meaningful.
That's why it's even more ridiculous, 3 and 4s are wings
By all accounts, we can expect little to no changes to the roster. This is what I came away with from the Lacob/DunDun chat. They like our team the way it is. LMFAO. Really? They liked our road record, the disconnection between core and punching bag, the frustration of Kuminga not getting playing time? I guess they've made their bed and must lie in it. When you are thwarted by the financial penalties that the Warriors face, what else can you do but love the one you're with, says Crosby, Stills, & Nash. So, we'll add a draft pick and pick up a few vet mins. Isn't that what we've always done?
No and no, to your two questions.
<Crosby, Stills, & Nash> Even they got rid of their youth, aka, Neil Young.
They had to. The name was just too long.
Neil Young "got rid of" himself, as he did in Buffalo Springfield. Neil, it seems, likes to change things up.
> By all accounts, we can expect little to no changes to the roster.
Makes me happy to hear that. I just hate the idea of trading Poole and Kuminga, but particularly after such cruddy years.
Selling low is insane. Even if you are committed to swapping them, the time to do it is at the trade deadline or next summer.
And, yeah, I know that what Dunleavy says may be non-binding, etc.
Dunleavy specifically said he wanted Kuminga to get more playing time, so there's that. Two big issues this past season were over-reliance on the young players being able to produce, then not using them; and our two unproductive FA signings (Igoudala and JMG). If Moody and JK have improved and indeed get regular minutes, that partially addresses the first one, although we also need to see whether Ryan and PBJ (and our draft pick if we keep him) can contribute.
The FA situation remains to be seen. I expect Igoudala will retire, but there's no way to project who Dunleavy will sign. We don't know about the 2-ways either.
I'm more concerned about whether Draymond (assuming he comes back) and Poole can coexist on the team without continuing the bad feelings from the past season.
Yay the new GM is already trying to dictate playing time. This will go well.
Hoping your young assets can contribute more and earn more playing time in their 3rd year is controversial?
(Last year, Myers said he wanted Moody and Kuminga to have bigger roles.)
Yep very common for GM to be involved like this
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Went and read the Athletic article. It’s about the process between FO and Coaches and this sounds like a strained and soon to be broken relationship between coach and FO with Kerr on an expiring.
Not a recipe for a smooth year. And with Dunleavy’s already tenuous relationship with the fanbase it could get really interesting if he is the guy that pushes the team into a new era prematurely.
It is already too late to "prematurely" push the Dubs into a new era. IMHO.
I am very happy that this will be the route actually - get the chemistry right, and if not by the mid season trade deadline make the changes. For now, lets try and add some fringe pieces only
It's actually Stephen Stills, solo. While Nash and Crosby provided backup vocals, it was a Stills solo album. Although to be fair, the lines very much blurred between CSN and Y on any given song, tour or album. Not your traditional we-are-a-band band.
I see your roster frustration, but I would ask: what would you choose instead?
I understand why the team chooses their successful formula. It's worked more times than not, but it doesn't account for development and the future of the team. It's also become boring to me, not Steph, but the rest of the team. Poole has been the only breath of fresh air in recent memory. They got lucky with Bjeli and OPJ. Bjeli deflated by the end of the season, but Poole saved the team's ass.
The old guard stands in the way of the new in the sense that they have chosen to double down on them. This may simply be a decision that is forced on them because of their insane spending on old players locking them in and locking out new talent. It's a good spin because logic is in their favor. Who can argue with 4 rings? I think we really know the reality behind all of this. They have little choice but to love the one they're with. As a fan, you want to see an evolution and that is what is not happening any longer. So my choices have nothing to do with the way the team thinks or acts. It's just me wasting time and energy, something we are told to do by our peers. If there was a real possibility of adding a player or more from a list, I would choose. This is pin the tail on the donkey to me.
"It's also become boring to me, not Steph, but the rest of the team." Yeah, winning is sooo boring. Not Mickey Mantle but the rest of the team... you know, like Ford and Berra.
Klay and Dray don't do it for me. Nothing to do with winning.
Shaun Livingston leaving the Front Office as we’re hoping to find his replacement through the draft lol
A reminder to us all: public speech by front office officials with regard to player acquisitions or transactions has no value.
Alas. They do, indeed, lie all the time, or at least tell partial truths. It’s part of their job.
“We see him as exciting part of our future for a decade to come” means … ?
Depends on the player. For Wiggins, it meant that they hoped to sign him to an extension (which they did). For DLo, it meant "We're going to trade this guy as soon as we can find a sucker to take him..." For Kuminga and Poole? I hope it means the former.
I can go either way, but for those hoping Dray will move on, at least for today, one day at a time, he's not on the team. It may be short-lived, so better put your feet up and light a stogie. Enjoy it while you can.
Kawakami quote: They’ll consider all options, but the working premise is that it’d take some whopper offers for them to consider moving Poole and/or Kuminga.
So, they're trading them for a bag full of burgers? Damn, their values tanked.
Yeah! Double yeah!
Sanity prevaileth.
That’s obviously the working premise (publicly, anyway). The real question is how actively they’re *pursuing* trades for those guys (if at all).
I mean, go out and pursue some whopper offers! If they don't get em (and they probably won't) no harm no foul.
Kawa usually has the right information
Oh, I’m not suggesting he’s giving wrong info — just that he’s giving info that sounds a bit like Warriors PR. The real question (to me) is whether they’re actively making calls or just politely fielding them on the off chance they’ll get a “whopper offer.”
The real question to me is NOT whether they are actively calling or not as long as they really would hold out for a whopper offer. The real question to me is whether they can get that whopper offer
Maybe the Bucks are tired of Giannis...
From article on Dunleavy presser
https://theathletic.com/4622850/2023/06/19/mike-dunleavy-warriors-gm-joe-lacob?source=user-shared-article
Did this get shared on here?
https://www.nba.com/watch/video/thinking-basketball-victor-wembanyama-breakdown
Must be giving Joey Lightyears a huge err... banyama 🍌
In case you wanted something to worry about that is probably minor but could feel bigger than that:
**
Source: Shaun Livingston will not be with the Warriors next season. He spent the last three seasons in the front office as director of players affairs and engagement
The decision was Livingston’s to spend more time with family. Livingston won’t be living in the Bay Area
https://twitter.com/DaltonJ_Johnson/status/1670927537516744705?s=20
It may be minor, but is depressing. One of my favorite players ever.
He was a Bob guy, right? That's at least what I've heard...
Damn. Godspeed, SDot!
So … give Shaun’s job to Andre, just like in the old days?
The offseason brain drain continues...
DEPARTED:
Myers, Jama, Shaun...
ADDED:
None
Did I miss anyone?
Damn. We aint Dunleaving yet...
Perhaps overthinking all of this, Sherlock? Brown and Jama got better offers, more growth. Bob was burned out. Shaun, have no idea about or care. His life, his decision. Lacob rules.
Yes, people have been leaving and there seems to definitely be a pattern of turn over. For whatever reasons, I'll probably never know for sure.
The important thing now is how the vacancies will be filled. We see Mike Dunleavy Jr. taking Bob Myers place. We'll see how that works out but I'm glad it was not a younger Lacob.
Coaches and scouts are (IMO) underrated aspects to NBA basketball teams, so I'm curious how the Ws fill Jama and Shaun's positions.
Brown leaving is totally understandable. He wanted to be a HC again and Sacramento provided a great opportunity. Myers is probably truly burnt out. Nearly a decade of high stress GMing (dealing with Joe, Durant, Dray, etc). Shaun was only with the FO because of Myers, Myers ask him to come aboard. Jama hurts, because he left for pretty much a lateral move. However, it was to go back home. Young guys haven't explicitly asked out. JK ask for a more defined role or he would want to seek that role elsewhere.
Sure these loses all hurt, but they don't directly point to something bigger going on, but we shall see how this offseason and season progresses.
I didn't see your post before I posted. Fully agree with you.
I'm still dismissing them
Beli, love ya but this reads as a bit confrontational
Nah
I'm not dismissing Night Night, I'm dismissing the idea that Livingston leaving the organization is a bad omen.
Fair to disagree, I just wanted to point out my perceived tone of your comment. You do you, and I generally love your honest unvarnished takes
Blow it up already Joey!
It's coming, just not this year.
On the Beal trade, it feels to me like one part new owner getting excited; one part bargain shopping with a team that had painted itself into a corner; and one part shrewd, aggressive response to a belief that the conference now runs through Denver—which a lot of folks have been reluctant to acknowledge.
Thing about Denver is that while they're clearly not a juggernaut on the level of the Durant Warriors, they do present an unusual challenge because their offensive attack is so totally unfazed by playoff defense. Miami played them the best of any team in this year's playoffs, and the Nuggets still managed an offensive rating over 115. (That was the only series where they didn't *exceed* their regular season ORtg). Compare that to last year's champion W's, who absolutely torched Dallas and Denver, but saw their Ortg drop by ten points or more against Memphis and Boston; or, if you prefer, compare it to the 2015 W's, who never matched their regular season ORtg in any playoff series).
That doesn't mean Denver is unstoppable by any means (nor that they're as good a team overall as those Warrior champs). But in order to beat them in a 7 game series, you're going to have to score at a borderline elite level *even if* you're defending really well (which you also must do). In other words, the minimum threshold for offensive efficiency against them is just really, really high. The list of teams that can clear it in a playoff context is likely to be short. Phoenix may well have put themselves on it, and while I think the Beal trade makes sense on its face, it makes even more in that context.
The Beal trade is one of those rare trades where it looks bad for everyone. From a raw asset trading perspective, it looks like a colossal steal for PHX. There's just a question of the basketball fit and whether the cap will prevent them from fielding a deep enough team.
Looks great for Steph and the Dubs. When KD fails again to win a championship, it will just be more proof that it was the warriors that win and not just KD as those annoying national folks keep talking about…
One anything going wrong and Phoenix is looking at a decade in the desert, as it were
The annoying thing is that if they decide to blow it up they can still pawn an old Durant and Beal off for probably still a first each to a desperate team
KD is absolutely a depreciation asset at this point tho
But depreciating from like 4 picks to maybe 1 pick. Look at how long Russ and Harden kept their value, way over due
:)
I can live with that.
Haha well it's definitely bad for Washington if you consider the totality of how they handled the last year or two with Beal.
I guess the thing I like for Phoenix is that, while the natural inclination might have been to go shopping for defenders, a) they've seized the opportunity that presented itself, and b) they seem well-positioned for a short-term reality where table stakes in the west involve pretty insane levels of offensive firepower.
The heats offense is nothing like the Dubs offense when they are in championship mode. Wonder how the offense holds up when Denver is chasing Curry off screens all game. It will certainly look different than it did against the Heat.
I agree that they W's are still on the list of teams that can hang with Denver, provided JP and Klay are on form.
Yawn
I think you are the one playing gangsta now. Act right? lol
The Ws just need to do a better job of resting Curry so that he doesn't wear out in the playoffs. That Kings series was rough on him. He rose to the occasion, but that was costly.
It would help if Klay, Poole, and Wiggs could carry their share of the load. Even though it's magnificent that Steph can go for 50, he shouldn't have too all that often.
And if Klay is Klanking again on top of that, Denver sweeps for sure
Alc just mentioned that our #2 prospect, Jordan Hawkins is a generational system fit. Apparently, they run a lot of Dubs' sets for him @ UConn. He thinks he would slot right in and make an impact immediately.
If you’ve got a free few minutes I would really recommend reading this article Belilaugh linked a few days ago:
https://deanondraft.substack.com/p/is-jordan-hawkins-the-next-elite
I think he’s getting pretty overvalued in the draft, and I’m not convinced we need a rookie off the bench to run around looking for catch and shoot opportunities. Would rather look for that ability in free agency or the G league if we feel like we need it while already having moody, poole, and pbj on the roster.
Mock drafts have him going somewhere between #11 and #17. We would have to get lucky at #19.
Honestly, if we're going to move JP3 for a Suns player, I'd kinda prefer Ayton. I'd prefer to pin my hopes on the possibility that Ayton just needs a new coach and a change of scenery to unlock his potential.
In that scenario, obv. TJ or RR would have to take a big step up to become backup PG.
Saw Ayton live in College and have been surprised at how well he’s done in the pros. That guy had zero motor and disappeared for long stretches. Maybe it’s fine if he’s the only paycheck player on your team.
Why am I so not excited for this Dubs' offseason? It really feels like they're kinda stuck in a rut and the only potential improvement next season has to be internal? I get that JP3 could be traded, but what could be brought back that would be more helpful than JP was this last season unless they package JK or more of the youth movement, which makes me sad. OTOH, it seems like just not enough to pin my hopes on improvements from the youth brigade.
We're cap constrained, the league took away the mid level, we're losing our 4th best player in DDV (or 5th/6th depending on which advanced metric you like), the only positive value trade assets we have are our rotation players, there are no good ring chaser vet mins, and Draymond just opted out of his player option.
It's looking pretty bleak at the moment.
- Championship hangover is gone
- Pain of losing helps Poole mature leading to effort on defense and slows down on offense
- Poole rebuilds his trade value
- Kuminga and Moody actually look ready to take a leap forward
- GP2 has a full off season to get healthy
- Wiggins won't disappear for 2 months
- A vet could sign that brings maturity and focus to the team
- Kerr will absolutely have a better year coaching
- Team finds unity and joy is back
- Lets see what have in PBJ and RR plus whatever happens with the draft
All of those points are plausible setting the stage for a quality trade or ring chasing vet singing and the Dubs are legit contenders again.
I get that. it's just...
- JK and MM looked like they were going to take a step forward last year.
- GP2 healthy just means fewer minutes for JK and MM.
- Steph, Klay, and Dray a year older means there will be multiple months missed, and will likely offset any benefit of a healthy Wiggs.
- A vet like DDV? turnstile Green?
- sigh @ Kerr. Will he even play PBJ and RR?
I think my biggest hope is that JK truly has a breakout year and becomes the 6th man in the rotation, first sub in on injury, and changes the whole complexion of the team. But I'm kinda expecting just a few baby-steps from him, and more pouting on the bench.
I think GP2 healthy helps Moody, who slides into more of a team defender role which is where he's stronger. Hurts Kuminga though.
Then I would say this. At the end of the day its sports. Not every season is gonna end in a championship. It is up to you to find something you enjoy in the game if you are gonna invest time in the team this upcoming season.
Amen ( not Thompson) to that