Reminder: To have your comment vote count, you must put #YES or #NO somewhere in the body of your comment, exactly once, and add a few words of explanation.
The poll numbers are looking close to the 75% threshold, so your hashtag could make the difference…
This being the dog days of the NBA summer, I have been ruminating on the word "honorary" while awaiting training camp to begin.....
First, some definitions - HONORARY: conferred or elected in recognition of achievement or service without the usual prerequisites or obligations (Merriam-Webster); given as a reward, without qualifying in a standard way (Cambridge); given for honor only, without the usual requirements, duties, privileges, emoluments, etc. (Collins)
Those above definitions pretty much jive with my understanding of the notion of "honorary" when applied to the context of a "Warrior for Life". It is "honorary" in the same way an "honorary" degree is, not the REAL thing per se, but a reward given to someone who, in some way, embraced Warrior-hood, lived it for a time, was loved by the Warrior community, but who may not, in the larger context, qualify as a REAL Warrior for Life. To put it in another starkly obvious, way - Stephen Curry is a Warrior for Life, Robin Schreiber, the Warrior dancing cam mom, is possibly an *Honorary* Warrior for Life.
Now why am I blathering on about this? Because I feel the above distinction has been lost. Because we are voting on whether JaVale McGee, or GP2, or heck, Šarūnas Marčiulionis, for that matter, should be an HONORARY Warrior. We're not evaluating their qualification to be a Pantheonic Warrior or some such, we're not talking jersey retirements, we're not even talking list of 100 or 500 greatest Warriors or whatever. We're talking about players or outside personalities (cause heck, we voted Damian Lillard in) who, for some reason, had enough of an appeal to qualify for some honorary Warrior-hood, whether it be ties to the community, some legendary fandom-ness, or yes, a player who in their own way was a cult favorite when they were here even if he may not have been an all-star or whatever.
Which is why, when we voted for Andre Iguodala many moons ago, I felt very weird about it. For God's sakes, Iguodala is not an "honorary" Warrior, he is an integral inviolably inseparable part of the lore. He is core. He is a Warrior for life, tout court! In that vein, I hope we never ever go down the route of voting on the "honorary" Warrior-hood of Stephen Curry. Heck, Stephen Curry should get a vote on whether you or me get to be Warrior fans.
So yes, so HWFL was fun, it had something a bit whimsical about it even at the onset, and yes, the criterion was simple - would you cheer for this person except if he played against the Warrior? But now it's turned into something else, I'm not quite sure what it's become, but there is nothing "honorary" about what we are voting on anymore.
Good insight. I do think we've lost sight of something here.
But I think the part we're voting on is "for life." So yes, GPII, OPJ, JTA, and Damion Lee were legit Warriors vs. someone like Lillard who is only an honorary Warrior by majority fan vote. But especially in the case of guys who weren't here long, are they Warriors for life, even if only in the honorary sense because they're wearing a different uniform? McGee is a good example -- a fan favorite during his years with the dynasty Warriors, he went on to play for a number of other teams and win a (cheapy bubble) championship with the LAL. So do we still think of him as sort-of-a-Warrior, even though he's long gone and has played for a number of teams since? I was conflicted and didn't vote, and now the results are in, but having had long enough to resolve my doubts, I'd vote #YES.
JaVale didn't just benefit from being on the Warriors. He went vegan, slimmed down, and worked his ass off. It was fun watching all the lob highlights, but how is it JaVale was able to drift into the paint when no-one on the other team was looking? Sees all, check. Moves off the ball, check. Runs the court, check. JaVale fully embraced the Warrior Way, with gusto. He will always be a champion, and always a Warrior.
#YES I have been a looong time lurker of GSOM and now DubNationHQ…I am the first to admit that I'm a bandwagon fan who started following the Dubs after they won the 2015 championship and set the 2016 regular season record...but surviving the injured Klay years..maybe I'm not anymore? Anyways, being from Pittsburgh, I don't have a hometown NBA team and I'm also obligated to hate all things Cleveland, so I was ok with jumping on the bandwagon. But what really drew me into the Warriors wasn't just the beautiful basketball they played but also the character of the players like Steph and Klay, the culture they created, and how they "weaponized joy". The other thing I respect a lot about the team is how everyone accepts their roles and plays them to the best of their ability. My yes isn't so much for basketball stats reasons but because I think JaVale McGee embodies the idea of weaponized joy and how role players can excel at Golden State. I wish he had never left and watching those highlights triggered that joy I remember from those years! Like others have said, I think the yes for JTA and no for JaVale is recency bias. Also, I literally subscribed to DubNationHQ just so I could vote yes and make this comment to help make sure he becomes a HWFL.
#Yes JaVale signed his entry pass when he signed JTA's poster.
just kidding (on the justification) -- yes b/c JaVale did bring a lot of joy, was solid, introduced me to the notion of vertical spacing, and still seems to be fond of the Warriors.
#YES! We've had a number of cult favorites during the first dynastic run (the second one has just begun!!) - Barbosa, Bogut, West, GP2... Javale fits right in with that group, all of whom should be, in this humble opinion, HWFL. And also plus points for being the original vertical spacer.
#NO. To qualify for this prestigious honor, a player has to at a certain point do more than wear the uniform and play in some games, show some minimal productivity. But that's what Javale did. Nothing about Javale's career says "Warriors" any more than other clubs. Nothing about his play says "Only Javale could have helped us then." He was aight.
On how many miinutes, though? That has always been a thing for Javale. For all he does well, he can't stay out on the floor. (He also can't dribble shoot or pass.) I think this is cherry-picking stats a bit, is that fair to suggest? The thing about Javale is that to me he actually symbolizes the exact opposite of the Warriors. They were the face of the small ball, yank our center, the ball zips around because everyone is a passer and shooter, no one clogs the lane, shoot threes offense. Javale is old school opposite of that. So even if he had a very good year or two, he wasn't a Warrior for Life on those grounds. Fair?
"Cherry-picking" is when you look at one outlier stat that doesn't represent the player's body of work and focus just on that.
I listed 5 stats, and will go further. WS/48 he is a top 3 Warrior both years for regular season and playoffs. He was in the highest net rating 5 man line up league wide (126 minutes together, same mins as other top line ups), and #1 in the entire nba +/- per 36. It's not my fault all these advanced stats are per minute, they are per minute because that helps find the league's most productive players. It's always Curry/Durant with him on these lists for a reason. Looking at these stats you'd think we were arguing if JaVale should have been finals MVP or league MVP. But we're just arguing whether he did more than wear the uniform????
You "Cherry-pick" minutes like he's a dude who hit 100% of one three point attempt, this is not a small sample size. He played 1,661 minutes for GSW, more than GP2. He stuck around for minimum money even with Kerr's unexplained and disproven minutes restriction, to bring the bay back2back titles at a 100% success rate. He deserved more money and minutes, FO didn't realize it, and would now be thrilled if their #2 overall pick could replace some of what we lost in Javale.
Anyway, this isn't a top 3 all time Warrior award. This award is just for guys that over achieved with the warriors, pitched in for team success, seemed proud to wear the uniform, and will be remembered fondly by fans. Bummer Kerr didn't call Javale's number enough for you to remember his success.
JaVale McGee has 2 capital letters in both his first and last names. That alone should get one into the Hall. Outside of that, McGee is the Poster Child for Warrior's Gold Dust. "Sprinkle me, Man! Sprinkle me!" If you are an NBA player and want to change the course of your career, come play with the Warriors. And no-one will ever outdo McGee and how his career path or player narrative changed after playing here. Nuf said.
Reminder: To have your comment vote count, you must put #YES or #NO somewhere in the body of your comment, exactly once, and add a few words of explanation.
The poll numbers are looking close to the 75% threshold, so your hashtag could make the difference…
Can you edit your old vote to not have the hashtag?
This being the dog days of the NBA summer, I have been ruminating on the word "honorary" while awaiting training camp to begin.....
First, some definitions - HONORARY: conferred or elected in recognition of achievement or service without the usual prerequisites or obligations (Merriam-Webster); given as a reward, without qualifying in a standard way (Cambridge); given for honor only, without the usual requirements, duties, privileges, emoluments, etc. (Collins)
Those above definitions pretty much jive with my understanding of the notion of "honorary" when applied to the context of a "Warrior for Life". It is "honorary" in the same way an "honorary" degree is, not the REAL thing per se, but a reward given to someone who, in some way, embraced Warrior-hood, lived it for a time, was loved by the Warrior community, but who may not, in the larger context, qualify as a REAL Warrior for Life. To put it in another starkly obvious, way - Stephen Curry is a Warrior for Life, Robin Schreiber, the Warrior dancing cam mom, is possibly an *Honorary* Warrior for Life.
Now why am I blathering on about this? Because I feel the above distinction has been lost. Because we are voting on whether JaVale McGee, or GP2, or heck, Šarūnas Marčiulionis, for that matter, should be an HONORARY Warrior. We're not evaluating their qualification to be a Pantheonic Warrior or some such, we're not talking jersey retirements, we're not even talking list of 100 or 500 greatest Warriors or whatever. We're talking about players or outside personalities (cause heck, we voted Damian Lillard in) who, for some reason, had enough of an appeal to qualify for some honorary Warrior-hood, whether it be ties to the community, some legendary fandom-ness, or yes, a player who in their own way was a cult favorite when they were here even if he may not have been an all-star or whatever.
Which is why, when we voted for Andre Iguodala many moons ago, I felt very weird about it. For God's sakes, Iguodala is not an "honorary" Warrior, he is an integral inviolably inseparable part of the lore. He is core. He is a Warrior for life, tout court! In that vein, I hope we never ever go down the route of voting on the "honorary" Warrior-hood of Stephen Curry. Heck, Stephen Curry should get a vote on whether you or me get to be Warrior fans.
So yes, so HWFL was fun, it had something a bit whimsical about it even at the onset, and yes, the criterion was simple - would you cheer for this person except if he played against the Warrior? But now it's turned into something else, I'm not quite sure what it's become, but there is nothing "honorary" about what we are voting on anymore.
Good insight. I do think we've lost sight of something here.
But I think the part we're voting on is "for life." So yes, GPII, OPJ, JTA, and Damion Lee were legit Warriors vs. someone like Lillard who is only an honorary Warrior by majority fan vote. But especially in the case of guys who weren't here long, are they Warriors for life, even if only in the honorary sense because they're wearing a different uniform? McGee is a good example -- a fan favorite during his years with the dynasty Warriors, he went on to play for a number of other teams and win a (cheapy bubble) championship with the LAL. So do we still think of him as sort-of-a-Warrior, even though he's long gone and has played for a number of teams since? I was conflicted and didn't vote, and now the results are in, but having had long enough to resolve my doubts, I'd vote #YES.
#yes
#yes
2 for 2 on titles.
1st in nba +/- per 36: mcgee 15.2, curry 13.8, durant 12.4, green 11.9
best net rating lineup: curry/klay/durant/green/mcgee (32.1) cavs (28.1) hamptons 5 (23.9)
JaVale didn't just benefit from being on the Warriors. He went vegan, slimmed down, and worked his ass off. It was fun watching all the lob highlights, but how is it JaVale was able to drift into the paint when no-one on the other team was looking? Sees all, check. Moves off the ball, check. Runs the court, check. JaVale fully embraced the Warrior Way, with gusto. He will always be a champion, and always a Warrior.
Late #YES
#YES I have been a looong time lurker of GSOM and now DubNationHQ…I am the first to admit that I'm a bandwagon fan who started following the Dubs after they won the 2015 championship and set the 2016 regular season record...but surviving the injured Klay years..maybe I'm not anymore? Anyways, being from Pittsburgh, I don't have a hometown NBA team and I'm also obligated to hate all things Cleveland, so I was ok with jumping on the bandwagon. But what really drew me into the Warriors wasn't just the beautiful basketball they played but also the character of the players like Steph and Klay, the culture they created, and how they "weaponized joy". The other thing I respect a lot about the team is how everyone accepts their roles and plays them to the best of their ability. My yes isn't so much for basketball stats reasons but because I think JaVale McGee embodies the idea of weaponized joy and how role players can excel at Golden State. I wish he had never left and watching those highlights triggered that joy I remember from those years! Like others have said, I think the yes for JTA and no for JaVale is recency bias. Also, I literally subscribed to DubNationHQ just so I could vote yes and make this comment to help make sure he becomes a HWFL.
#YES for Javale. He wanted to come back and many times I wish they had brought him back - at least for a 3rd season. Wish him nothing but the best.
#Yes JaVale signed his entry pass when he signed JTA's poster.
just kidding (on the justification) -- yes b/c JaVale did bring a lot of joy, was solid, introduced me to the notion of vertical spacing, and still seems to be fond of the Warriors.
#yes
#YES
#YES! We've had a number of cult favorites during the first dynastic run (the second one has just begun!!) - Barbosa, Bogut, West, GP2... Javale fits right in with that group, all of whom should be, in this humble opinion, HWFL. And also plus points for being the original vertical spacer.
#NO. To qualify for this prestigious honor, a player has to at a certain point do more than wear the uniform and play in some games, show some minimal productivity. But that's what Javale did. Nothing about Javale's career says "Warriors" any more than other clubs. Nothing about his play says "Only Javale could have helped us then." He was aight.
"minimal productivity"?
2016-17: 2nd in PER, 2nd in TS%, 1st in TRB%, 1st in BLK%, 4th in USG%
2017-18: 3nd in PER, 2nd in TS%, 3st in TRB%, 1st in BLK%
Hamptons 5 had a higher net rating swapping out Andre for McGee. Most productive lineup of all time?
On how many miinutes, though? That has always been a thing for Javale. For all he does well, he can't stay out on the floor. (He also can't dribble shoot or pass.) I think this is cherry-picking stats a bit, is that fair to suggest? The thing about Javale is that to me he actually symbolizes the exact opposite of the Warriors. They were the face of the small ball, yank our center, the ball zips around because everyone is a passer and shooter, no one clogs the lane, shoot threes offense. Javale is old school opposite of that. So even if he had a very good year or two, he wasn't a Warrior for Life on those grounds. Fair?
"Cherry-picking" is when you look at one outlier stat that doesn't represent the player's body of work and focus just on that.
I listed 5 stats, and will go further. WS/48 he is a top 3 Warrior both years for regular season and playoffs. He was in the highest net rating 5 man line up league wide (126 minutes together, same mins as other top line ups), and #1 in the entire nba +/- per 36. It's not my fault all these advanced stats are per minute, they are per minute because that helps find the league's most productive players. It's always Curry/Durant with him on these lists for a reason. Looking at these stats you'd think we were arguing if JaVale should have been finals MVP or league MVP. But we're just arguing whether he did more than wear the uniform????
You "Cherry-pick" minutes like he's a dude who hit 100% of one three point attempt, this is not a small sample size. He played 1,661 minutes for GSW, more than GP2. He stuck around for minimum money even with Kerr's unexplained and disproven minutes restriction, to bring the bay back2back titles at a 100% success rate. He deserved more money and minutes, FO didn't realize it, and would now be thrilled if their #2 overall pick could replace some of what we lost in Javale.
Anyway, this isn't a top 3 all time Warrior award. This award is just for guys that over achieved with the warriors, pitched in for team success, seemed proud to wear the uniform, and will be remembered fondly by fans. Bummer Kerr didn't call Javale's number enough for you to remember his success.
This is my first vote in the polls, and I vote #No for the same reasons.
JaVale's bigger mark as a Warrior was to be the first guy to have his rep salvaged by them.
Holy moley, the poll is right at 76% and the comment vote… is at 80.6%. There is a chance JVMG won’t make the 75% threshold… it’s a nail biter
You inspired me! ... to get in there and vote no, alas
Yah, it's ticked negative since this post. Now 74%. Nail-biter to be sure.
#No I feel he doesn't get into the club. Serviceable yes, but not enough to capture this bouncer's heart.
JaVale McGee has 2 capital letters in both his first and last names. That alone should get one into the Hall. Outside of that, McGee is the Poster Child for Warrior's Gold Dust. "Sprinkle me, Man! Sprinkle me!" If you are an NBA player and want to change the course of your career, come play with the Warriors. And no-one will ever outdo McGee and how his career path or player narrative changed after playing here. Nuf said.
Make sure to vote correctly (with a hashtag)
#Yes!