221 Comments

Dude was here for two years and had zero impact. No.

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Don't call me a jerk yet, I have more to say. So up on my YouTube feed came this race of 45-99+ age group women in the 800 meters. The 47 year old ran fast and did fine. But the commentators and YT commenters were all thrilled about the 94 year old who came in last and set a "national record" for some sort of age restriction. To watch her you'd see someone who was sometimes walking, sometimes running, and very slowly. She was easily lapped by the other three finishers in a two lap race. To me it was painful to watch. Took forever.

And then the accolades came in. "What a hero!" "She's amazing!" "I love her!"

To me, this is pure condescension. Simply being old doesn't make anyone adorable. Just because you can get around a track twice doesn't mean your race is worth watching, at any age. I find this adulation akin to participation medals for every kindergartner who can tumble twice.

I'm 58. I work out. Sometimes less, sometimes more. I sure as hell don't want a camera following me around going: look it's a PR for him!! I don't need to compete with other people my age. Now, I do understand the concept of competition -- I am an NBA fan and many other sports as well. But I think not everything is worthy of it. If the woman wants to run/walk 800 meters, great. Most people her age don't. But why is this newsworthy? if she isn't doing anything at all impressive *other* than the fact that few people her age do it, that's not competitive sports, to me. It's staying alive and healthy enough.

So what is your view on age, on what competitive sports is really about, on what is filmed and put out there and recorded as noteworthy?

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Much respect for Asher from his post. I sense a very compassionate and wise person, not wanting to see a disadvantaged competitor gets humiliated. The problem is with the grouping of the competition. Why do they pit a 94 y.o. vs the forty something? If you want to encourage people to exercise, promote a healthy lifestyle, then create a category where people can compete fairly, like age group from 65 to75, 85 to 95... I'm a senior still participate in competitive sports, but I'll get killed if I play with guys/gals half my age.

(....I hesitated for a long time before saying the following because it's political.)

I thinks trans athletes should compete in their own sports and try to create their own Olympics. It's

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That really is part of it. Why pit me and Usain Bolt in the same race? I'll just get destroyed and I sure wouldn't want to hear "You did well for how old you are." I think you're right, the age grouping doesn't make any sense. Ten year groupings make more sense. I'm guessing the reason that they don't is that there probably aren't a lot of women running the 800 in the 85-95 year old range.

I think the issue of gender is so complicated that it deserves its own discussion. I have no problem with you bringing it up and I don't think intelligent adults should. I grew up with the idea that men have natural advantages over women and therefore it makes sense to have two different categories. That remains largely true, but then there is the question of an individual identifying as female, born with a male body or taking drugs to aid in that transition. For them to compete as female is highly problematic, but to exclude them from the competition or tell them that they are male is also problematic. We saw in the 80s that if you give female athletes (in the USSR, East Germany) the right drugs, their bodies change and they do very well in certain sports. It's a tough question for me to puzzle out. I'm not sure separate Olympic category addresses it but am willing to listen to the idea. Thanks.

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There's so much wrong with this post I'm not even sure what to talk about first. Instead, I'll make an analogy. Make it the Special Olympics instead. Do you still feel the same? If not (hopefully), why not? Are you going to put air quotes around "national record" in those cases too? Why not?

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How about instead of asking me leading questions, you just say what you think about the subject?

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> If the woman wants to run/walk 800 meters, great. Most people her age don't. But why is this newsworthy?

On this I have two responses:

Response 1)Couldn't this same standard be applied to most sports? For example, ""If the overly tall person wants to run up and down a court bouncing a ball and throwing it at a target, great. MOST PEOPLE THEIR HEIGHT DON'T. BUT WHY IS THIS NEWSWORTHY?""

Response 2)Some may be inspired by her accomplishment and/or perseverance. Athletics of all kinds is pitched (rightly so, in my view) as inspiring people to do more than they otherwise would. So, though few of us can perform at the level of the athletes on television, maybe some of us get closer than we would if we didn't hear about the inspiring athlete's accomplishment. So, bringing it back to her, if she doesn't inspire you, fine. Maybe she inspires someone else. You may be inspired by athletes lots of other people find boring or entitled or otherwise irrelevant. The category "inspiring athlete" isn't comprised on only the athletes you or I find inspiring and/or newsworthy . . . at this time in our lives.

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That’s fair. I’m not asking anyone to not be inspired. You’re right that we find inspiration where we find it and that’s kinda all there is to say.

But isn’t there more to your fandom than inspiration? Whatever I feel when Usain Bolt wins a gold. Something like astonishment, excitement, the knowledge that no one can do it better, etc.

we’re all warrior fans here. But we’re not all SC Warrior fans. I even live in SC and rarely go to the games. I think having in my mind the knowledge that it can be done better up the road matters.

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I think IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE you seem to have felt sorry for her. Maybe you felt it was exploitative. And that may be behind your response.

I confess, sometimes I feel that way. But if its someone with the capacity and experience to make their own choices, then I defer. Yeah, anytime someone is performing in public--on the gym floor, the dance floor, the stage--some observers may be pointing and laughing or mocking. That's why it takes guts to do anything at any age. But we gonna let those bozos determine what we do? NOOOOOOO! So if this person has enough desire to do it to not be stopped by the immature, I want to connect to their spirit and cheer right along with them. That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with your wondering about that. Seems compassionate to me to wonder and, if around, to unobtrusively check.

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Yes to all that but my main question regards not what she does but what we do. What constitutes behavior worthy of admiration? Of adulation? Why? I wash dishes extremely efficiently and quickly, but I don’t expect anyone to be interested.

It’s an ongoing question in sports, one I think many are reluctant to ask: why the hell do we even care? Whether it’s 90 year old distance runners or Jimmy

Butler, what is of merit to me, and if it’s of merit how much do I want to watch it?

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We humans are weak little social-climbing primates, practically defenseless on our own. In the ancestral environment we bred and died in numbers. We instinctively venerate those most likely to protect or propagate kin or tribe. Our ranking is superficial, since we can only confirm kin/tribe through similarity and the word of others. That's why it easily transfers to nations, religions, sports laundry.

Awe and adoration are reserved for those at the top of the selfish-gene-determined hierarchy. Old people (like me) need not apply unless they have managed to accrue sufficiently visible proxy power (wealth, authority, etc.) to obscure their debility.

Anyway, you go Ms. 94!

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That’s so well written!

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If I was over for dinner, and afterward followed you to the kitchen and saw you could wash dishes extremely efficiently and quickly, I'd certainly be interested. What made you so fast? Did you have a special method? . . . I'm not saying I'm gonna go out of my way to watch competitive dishwashing. But, if the opportunity to watch someone do something with excellence and efficiency presents itself, sure, I'd be interested. Why not?

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Fair. Long years in industrial kitchens is the answer btw

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As long as you cheer the youngsters and the oldsters, or refrain from doing so, your philosophy is internally consistent and supportable.

But if you cheer the youth and are annoyed by the old, then you may have serious internal issues and will probably be unhappy in your old age.

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Aug 7, 2023·edited Aug 7, 2023

That’s quite a leap; you’ve gone from what I root for to a crystal ball on my old age.

I never said I was annoyed by the old, by the way. I view myself as the champion of the old in this scenario, because I’m respecting them not condescending

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEqFbQcB498

10am PST. Klay makes an appearance on Paul George's podcast.

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Geez! Is this guy gonna spend ANY time this summer working on his game?

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Lauren James doing her best Draymond impersonation? Not great for England that she'll miss the next game, as a Dubs fan, I know the feeling.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/38148033/england-win-penalties-lauren-james-red-card

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So, looks like folks that follow FIFA discipline expect her suspension to be upgraded from one game to three, which basically takes her out for the rest of the WC.

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Not a very good Draymond impersonation since I didn't see the Nigerian player dangerously grab on her leg to prevent her from moving as she was trying to re-enter the play.

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Cole Swider, recently waived Lakers two-way, has a 'verbal' commitment to a 10-day with Miami. In terms of newsworthiness, I'd hazard he's one of the interesting 2-way candidates and also some have suggested it's in prep for a big trade. Also, it was news to me that teams can't officially sign 10-days when they have less than 14 players under standard nba contracts.

https://twitter.com/Anthony_Chiang/status/1688287252294549504?s=20

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So as a casual watcher of football (soccer for you ‘Muricans) just slightly annoyed at Messi being in the MLS not gonna lie. Its like Steph now in his late prime heading over to china to play basketball. Thats great for Chinese Basketball Association fans but for the casual NBA viewer it sucks. Just want to tune to a La Liga match early on a Saturday and watch Messi play at a high level against the world’s best not against the average MLS-er

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Hasn’t it been years since you could tune in to see him in la liga?

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He had an offer to go back

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I was not happy watching him at PSG, and I'm actually very happy he ended up in the MLS. I never expected it, and the sour taste of him leaving Barca has had some time to work its way out of my system. And he's got Busquets and Jordi Alba with him in Miami so there's that as well.

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I’m not even kidding when I say I legitimately think a video is altered with when I see Steph miss a shot even in practice

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I know that JZ and I are the only boxing degenerates around here but I felt you all should know that Green defeated Curry tonight by unanimous decision.

Shadasia Green vs Olivia Curry, that is.

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There's a team called the Guardians now? LOL.

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My family was at a pub last night when that happened, and it drew in folks walking on the street. The real time commentary was choice

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Aug 6, 2023·edited Aug 6, 2023

Are you sure? I mean, I know you're the boxing fan and I am definitely not, but I thought her name was Olivia Poole ...

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#No, No No. I mean c’mon, he was barely an Honorary Warrior for the team.

#HWFLA Honorary Warrior For Limited Availability.

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Denver Nugget Vlatko Cancar tears his ACL playing for Slovenia yesterday. Always terrible timing when it happens in the offseason as Warrior fans know, he's only 26 so hopefully he'll have a faster recover than Gallinari did last season. Cancar was obviously not a key bench player for the Nuggets but this does probably slide one of their rookies into a few more regular season minutes.

Will be interesting to see their version of the two timeline plan in action next season. Does drafting mostly "low upside, NBA ready" upperclassmen in the late first or second round work better than drafting "high upside, raw" teenagers with lottery picks? Does it even matter if your key players are all in their mid to late 20s anyway?

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FYI

Former Sacramento Kings prospect Harry Giles III soon will have a chance to make an impression on the Warriors.

The 6-foot-11 center/power forward and first-round pick of the 2017 NBA Draft is set to work out for Golden State next week, his agent Daniel Hazen told SNY's Ian Begley.

https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/nba/golden-state-warriors/harry-giles-iii-workout/1646009/

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Aug 5, 2023·edited Aug 5, 2023

Giles might be top o’ my list at this point, tbh. Athletic, switchable 25 y.o. 7-3 wingspanned big who can pass.? And an NC kid, which should endear him quickly to Steph and CP3.

If we can get him on a two-way I’m all in; and there aren’t too many guys I can think have who I’d rather have at roster spot #14. I’d certainly take him over Big Tony, if it comes to that.

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Well i thinka true center (and Giles is this at this point) is a necessity with one of these 2 way slots

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Aug 5, 2023·edited Aug 7, 2023

Any idea what happened to him? I watched his rookie year in Sac, and he seemed meh at best. But, back in those days, playing poorly for Sac didn't really tell you much about the player.

The numbers are not encouraging. Last year was 2020-21, 9 minutes a game, very low shooting volumes (97 shot attempts in 38 games!). Maybe he could grab some rebounds, though.

Edit:

He has had injuries bad enough that he was shut down till the end of the season at least two times.

His rookie year (SAC), he was shut down on Jan. 18.

His second year, he was shut down on Apr. 3. Hard to say why (Sac would have been well out of the playoff picture by then).

He attempted to catch on to the NBA in 2021-22, but ended up in the Clippers G-League team, and on Jan 3 2022, was waived by the team because of an injury.

Apparently at least some of the injuries were knee injuries.

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I have Harry on a list of 30-or-so guys I thought might be interesting 2 way candidates. On the one hand, he probably is more talented than most and while I'm not too worried about his health concerns on a 2 way, I wondered if they'd want to deal with the narrative of 'giving him a fair shot' as the eponymous beneficiary of the Harry Giles rule.

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I don't think fans end up paying too much attention to two-way guys unless they play well (or have off-court baggage). I'd guess the majority of Warrior fans (not on this site but in general) have no idea that Jeff Dowtin was on the roster the season they won a championship.

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I think that's generally true and it might prove true here as well. It's just that Harry Giles is relatively well-known nationally, at least more so than Dowtin or say Dylan Windler, who is also a beneficiary of the new rule. And since the rule was billed as Tatum helping his old friend get one last shot, I think it's a 'possible' storyline that can crop up wherever he ends up this season. The talent might be worth it, but he's less under the radar than your average two way.

https://hoopshype.com/player/harry-giles/

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I don't see an issue. The Harry Giles rule exists, and if he earns a 2-way deal, so be it. Of course sports reporters are capable of creating storylines out of nothing, and some fans get whipped up over nothing, but the team should not take that stuff seriously.

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Perfect candidate for a 2 way.

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Man, I can't believe he only has three years in the NBA. But, that's correct ... he is still eligible for a two-way contract.

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They *just* changed the rules so that HG3 specifically would be eligible for a two way. Now they don’t count years where you miss the whole season towards the service limit.

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2023/06/30/harry-giles-nba-cba-harry-giles-iii/

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Stupid to change rules just for 1 guy arbitrarily but hopefully it works in the Warriors favor

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Seems reasonable to me as it doesn't seem right to penalize young players for getting injured.

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It is reasonable although I could see some players who might have been able to come back two thirds of the way through the season (like Chris Boucher, or perhaps Jaylen Clark this year) choose to redshirt the entire season to not burn any eligibility.

But maybe players don't generally think about being on a two-way contract for all four years so it won't affect anything.

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Just saw PBJ walk by in Chicago O’Hare United Club. Had to look way up to see his face. Fortunately he was carrying a basketball. Else I’m terrible at spotting celebrities. Very serious expression. Hoping he does well in Washington.

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My 2 brushes with celebrity as I'm also pretty clueless

1) I was doing demo dude duty at the Western Cable Show and on the way out I saw somebody I thought was a Dolly Parton look alike with a couple of huge dudes. Only realized later that since she was currently pitching a cable show or something it probably was Dolly. & body guards. In my defense I had a really bad cold that week and had discovered the first day that you can walk for 2 or 3 miles in Anaheim without finding a drugstore (no google maps then). You could however buy enough parts to build a car from scratch. I eventually gave up and loaded up on cold stuff from the hotel shop.

2) I almost literally ran into Steve Jobs and body guards as they were coming out of an elevator I was going into thinking it was empty. That was when he was pitching Next at Usenix (I think) as Unix done right so I had just seen him do the pitch shortly before.

My take away is that it is the body guards that give it away but PBJ probably doesn't need them (yet).

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I once ran into Joe Lacob randomly while walking home from work past the old Warriors practice facility in downtown Oakland next to the Marriott. He was just about to get into a car and I didn't really know what to say to him so I was just like "Hey Joe Lacob, I see you!" He looked up at me and saw my Dubs hat, did an awkward wave, and got in his car and rode away.

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Those are good stories. I remember trying the Next, good concept. Here’s hoping PBJ gets to the point he needs bodyguards. I’m rooting for him - chose family over a big name school. Wish he had more fire.

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Aug 5, 2023·edited Aug 5, 2023

OT: I’m reasonably confident/hopeful CP3’s game will age fairly gracefully into his age 38 season (as with, say, Stockton and Nash). But if he totally falls off a cliff, can we call him … Cliff Paul?

On topic: #NO

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CP3’s game has and will age gracefully. It’s his body that’s in doubt.

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I vote for him to do well

Side note: can't wait for the CP3 re-vote next summer!

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Aug 5, 2023·edited Aug 5, 2023

> Side note: can't wait for the CP3 re-vote next summer!

If CP3 goes from #2 Villain of All Time to Honorary Warrior For Life in the span of one year, it means one of two things are true:

1)Either he was unfairly labelled a villain by the fanbase,

2)Or he was unfairly gifted honorary Warrior status by voting on it too soon.

I'm gonna go with #1. I can't see how Chris Paul beats out Lebron James for number 2 or Dillon Brooks for number 3. If I devoted a bit more time to it I'm sure I could come up with at least two more serious/better villains to knock CP3 out of the top 5.

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If CP helps Kuminga and the other young guys to take a nice step, if he leads the 2nd unit and they become formidable, and if the Ws bring home another championship, he'll be an honorary W for life -- and he'll deserve it. I'll be the first in line giving him his propers.

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Not so much a villain as an extreme foul baiter and flopper in the same class with Harden.

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I think it's fair to have accorded him villain status for prior acts, while also fairly recognizing worthy feats in the upcoming season.. like idk, Darth Vader, Vegeta, Team Hell No, Doc Oc, the whole Fast Furious franchise, Negan, T-800, Mini-Me, etc...

But even if so, will being voted an honorary Warrior automatically 'expunges' his villain status? It's not possible for him to hold both? As a fan rooting in the moment, I might need it to be binary, but as a career retrospective I think I can apportion honor and infamy to different career stages, assuming everything goes right next season. Or less kindly, I think (2012-2022) CP3 will always be a dirty #2 in my book.

edit: I am a sucker for redemption arcs though, lol

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Villains in film are far more likely to redeem themself than villains in real life. I know of ZERO murderous dictators of history who changed their behavior and became honored people. But you see equivalent changes in film quite often. Why? Because Hollywood is trying to tell a story to sell tickets, and one trope that sells tickets is to redeem the villain. But, in my view, the Star Wars original trilogy would have been better art if they had let Vader be Vader. Indeed, the one villain redemption story in the original trilogy worth having--Han Solo--they wiped clean by editing out Solo shooting first. That should tell you--Lucas is kind of a hack, willing to paint mustaches on his masterpieces if it'll sell one more ticket or toy.

I doubt CP3 is going to change his behavior, so. Let's put it this way: I'm not a fan of "He's a villain, but he's doing his dirty deeds for us, so it's okay." I don't root for villains. If my team has a villain--someone who tries to injure people, or does other truly villainous acts (like losing 4-0 and coming out with a bandaged hand to "explain" the loss--just totally low class stuff), well, I just don't root for that person.

What IS common in real life is Nation A calls someone in Nation B a terrorist while Nation C calls them a freedom fighter. If they win they become national heroes in Nation B (and even get a seat at the UN). If they lose they become executed. So, that happens. The behavior doesn't change, but the interpretation does. For those now poised to cheer for CP3, or even vote him HWFL, this is what is happening--they are preparing to reinterpret everything he did. Its the only way to keep him a villain and still cheer. For me he was never a villain. He was a pesky, crafty opponent--nothing more, nothing less. So I can cheer without conflict. I wouldn't be able to do that with Lebron, a man who claims to be the chosen one, but engages in such petty crap that the truly great--Kareem, Wilt, the Big O, Jerry West, Nate, the Dream--never even became aware was possible. That, to me, is, if not a villain, certainly a nemesis.

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He's more than crafty and pesky. He hits guys in the junk, which definitely crosses a line. It's NOT as bad as Dillon Brooks injuring GP or even Marcus Smart diving at Steph's legs. But it's not basketball. That and the foul baiting are why I never cared for the guy.

But he's a great floor general and passer. He's made guys better wherever he's gone. And that IS basketball. Guys like Brooks are doubly bad because they aren't good basketball players -- and they either intentionally injure guys or make reckless plays without regard for their opponents. But I like that Paul is a competitor, and I can live with the gamesmanship as long as he plays winning basketball.

I doubt Paul will be among my favorite players. But as long as he's wearing a Warrior uniform, I want him to excel. I want him to contribute to winning and offer the kind of leadership that helps our other guys to contribute to winning. I want him to help develop the young guys. I want his shots to go in, his passes to connect, and his body to stay healthy. I even want him to win a ring (ugh) because if he does, it means that Steph, Klay, Loon, Wiggs, GP, and Green also get another one.

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Aug 7, 2023·edited Aug 7, 2023

I saw the CP3 State Farm commercial again today where CP3 is competing in competitive walking - somehow they must have edited out the nut-punch he gives to his closest competitor right before the finish line.

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I feel like the only way CP3 sniffs HWFL by next summer is if the Ws win the title with him regularly putting up lines like this one: https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202204280NOP.html

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If Russell Westbrook ever makes HWFL, I'm going to go root for the Pistons.

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And the force that is James Wiseman.

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#NO because he didn't play enough and accomplished almost nothing. Would that it were otherwise. I still think he has a chance to be good somewhere else eventually though. He's only 22.

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Speaking only for myself, my expectations were not wildly high:

- don't actively interfere with the offense and defense of your team by being in the wrong place at nearly all times

- don't fumble all but the easiest entry passes

- being the largest human on the floor, grab a contested rebound or set a solid screen once in while

JW did emphatically NOT meet these relatively (for a high lottery pick) low expectations

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#NO

Seems like a nice enough young man, maybe too nice.

If he bounces around the league for a bit, I'm sure he'd be welcome to sign with the Sea Dubs for a stint and see if can get a call-up opportunity to redeem himself to HWFL status after Steph has sailed into the sunset.

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