It all comes down to health for me... because we def upgraded on role players and young talent vs the last 2 years. Night and day. can they stay on the court? Klay Wise OPJ and Belly
Cleveland is acquiring Chicago restricted free agent F Lauri Markkanen on a four-year, $67M deal in a sign-and-trade, sources tell ESPN.
- Woj
POR gets Nance Jr and CLE gets Derrick Jones Jr + picks
..
So when is Dame leaving? That roster is hopeless and is destined for a 2nd round exit at best. They need to admit they screwed up with trying to surround Dame with actual winning players. It's time to blow it up Sam Presti style and rebuild from scratch. They're just wasting everyone's time by keeping Dame around with that team and getting bounced early every year.
No knock on Nance Jr either, I think he'll be a fine rotational player. I just think they're using him as a band aid on a wound that's already too big to contain
I actually really like Nance Jr., great defender whose super athletic, can stretch the floor, and is a solid passer. He is honestly the perfect type of player for the Warriors and is one of those super impactful players whose game goes beyond the numbers.
That being said, he is not going to shift the needle for Portland when it comes to winning championships.
The funny thing is there are trades they could make that could make a difference....like: CJ plus a million picks for Ben Simmons. That makes sense and would help Philly.
But no iteration of a trade like that exists where the other team isn't thinking, "we'll just wait it out and see if they'll trade Dame."
Not too worried about the grade. The Warriors are contenders next year if Klay is in form by playoff time. They have much better depth and lineup flexibility then last year.
Not enough credit given to OPJ and Bjelica signings. Injury factor is real, but upside of OPJ is HUGE. A difference maker. Bjelica has been an underrated player and fits perfectly with the current front court.
Yeah. Healthy OPJ — rugged 6-8, 7-1 wingspan guy who can shoot 40%++ from three, guard 2-4, and rebound like crazy — could be so huge for us, especially come playoff time. Teams pare down to 7-8-man rotations in the playoffs; and healthy Otto would clearly be in that inner core group for us, with Big 3, Wiggs, and Poole, plus probably JTA and Loon.
Curry
Poole
Thompson
Wiggins
Porter Jr.
JTA
Green
Looney
The other guys are gravy. Anyone want to face that group in the playoffs?
Call me crazy, but I believe (barring injury) Wiseman will be ready to contribute in a limited role in the playoffs (matchup dependent). If we're facing a team with an opposing big guy/bruiser I could definitely see Wiseman earning minutes matched up against them for 10-15 mpg.
Yeah, I could see that for a quarter or a game here and there … kinda like how Ezeli came in in 2015 and gave us a jolt of energy (sprinting the floor, putback dunks, etc.) after getting a bunch of DNP-CDs in that playoffs. Ditto JaVale in 2017.
My main point was that OPJ — if healthy — could be not just a here-and-there energy jolt or pace-changer, but a regular 25-30 mpg part of the core playoff rotation, including in do-or-die game sixes and sevens.
Right. How long is the list of guys that signed for 6M or less per year, that could play 25-30 MPG in a conference or NBA Finals and not only not kill you, but make a positive impact?
Patty Mills isn't on that list. Robin Lopez isn't on that list. It's mostly guys of OPJ's ilk. Wings who can defend and shoot: Tucker, Torrey Craig, Batum...Otto Porter, when healthy, is pretty easily the best player of that group.
Andre, BJelly, and DLee would probably be playoff rotation guys #9-11, but as we saw in last years finals (and most finals) those guys tend not to see the floor much if at all when the chips are down.
As good as I think JTA will be for us in the future, he doesn't have that playoff experience yet. If we get into a gritty series with seasoned vets that can school him I still got my money on Andre being ahead of him on that playoff depth chart even if he's 100 years old. I feel like Steve just trust him too much to sit him when it REALLY matters.
We'll see though, either way whatever JTA learns from Andre this year will be so helpful for everyone moving forward
Key for the Warriors wa, IMO, Kerr/Myers getting a chance -- during the tail end of last year -- to see what a post-KD team should look like for the remainder of the Curry era. Thta allows them to craft a team around that vision.
Frankly, blessed with that vision earlier I don't think they take Wiseman, who can fit the new paradigm but isn't ideal. I must say, the 2020 draft choices weren't great for the Dubs. LaMelo was clearly the best player available, and the Warriors said as much leading to the draft, but he needs the ball in his hand and that really reduces Dray's role on offense. Since, as the Dubs stated at the time, Ball didn't fit with Dray, the better move might have been a trade down for another 2021 first while drafting Haliburton.
On Oubre, they were never going to resign a guy with limited fit for the new style for a big contract. He's a defender first and foremost who should never be more than a secondary offensive option on a team with a lot of shooters.
On the 2021 draft, both players fit the new paradigm and have tremendous long-term potential given their skill set and ages. I don't expect much from them for 2-3 seasons, but I could easily see Kuminga & Moody (along with Poole) becoming rotational pieces by the '23 season. Wiseman should be developed along the same timeline, through his value may ultimately come on the trade market.
FA, has to be taken with a massive grain of salt. As a hangover from 5 years of championship play (a price I'm fully prepared to pay), the Warriors have precisely zero flexibility in the FA market -- none. So, they got nothing last year. The W's did a lot better this year and may have hit some home runs if the OG's can stay healthy.
A thought on Wiseman. If he develops along the lines of an Ayton, no mega-star, but not a bust, I think Wiseman will pay great dividends over time and prove to be the right pick. Just because the Warriors best closing lineup is typically small (Dray @ 5) doesn't mean they don't need a center. Bogut, Looney, Zaza, West, McGee, etc. all played vital roles in the Chip runs. And skilled Bigs are having a resurgence across the league. We know that there are limits to being short-handed at the 5 and resorting to heavy minutes for Dray at the 5 in the regular season is not what they want to do. We have seen the Warriors carry up to 4 centers on the roster and use different match-ups based on different skill sets.
So here is where Wiseman can become a great asset. We can't just keep reshuffling the deck for the centers on the roster, looking to sign one after another on veteran minimums. What Wiseman offers is a super-athletic Big who could be above average (or better) at all the different skill sets you hope to get with your centers. In the past, we have Looney for defense & screens, McGee for rebounding and lob threat, West for high post passing and solid mid-range game, and go down the list. All our previous centers had shortcomings in one area or another. Thus the history of carrying up to 4 centers on the roster. Wiseman has the potential to check all of the boxes, all of the areas of skill you could hope to get out of your center, to do it with length and athleticism, for 30-32 minutes a game ... for the next 12 years.
If you factor in the long term return, the sum value of his minutes at the 5, how this can extend Dray's career by limiting his regular season minutes going head to head with Joker/Embiid and Company, then I believe Wiseman was the right pick from a roster construction stand-point. It may have not been the sexy pick, but its the girl next door, one you were smart to marry pick.
And can we go through one free agency period without having to sift through all the centers in the league who might take a Vet Minimum? That process is getting old.
I agree, the kid is green. But I do believe the sum of his career, and how it impacts the roster and other things on the court like Dray's long term health, will ultimately justify his pick at #2. Just a thought anyway. ;-)
My only criticism is that the Warriors really have no history of using big men as big men, namely rebounding, rim protection, in and out game ala Kareem, and high scoring from the 5. Bogut, who had many of these elements was phased out for a small ball, quicker lineup who could shoot and pass lights out. That's the Warriors. That's the bet that the Warriors took and are taking for the next couple of years. Wiseman is an asset that can easily be traded, IMO. They are not worried and if he does develop, we will be calling them geniuses. My biggest question is have the Warriors placed their best bet on sticking with their ageing core who will have something to prove? I would venture to guess that that is their best option considering how hamstrung their financial situation really is. If they win it all this year, it will be a massive victory for the ownership and FO, and of course, the old core. I would say the odds are against them, but odds are only odds.
I understand why people tend to mention Ayton when discussing the type of player they want Wiseman to turn into. Ayton is the up-and-coming young center who made huge strides in the past few seasons.
However, I think it's worth noting that Ayton was a pure big-man prospect. Physical presence who sought out contact, both in scoring and rebounding.
Beyond the similar-ish physical profiles, I just don't really see it. At least not now. Wiseman just didn't really look to have the game/skillset/mindset of an effective NBA big. Which is to be expected given his lack of game minutes over the past few years.
I feel like this has already been said in threads here, but I really really hope the Dubs are not relying on Wiseman to give them effective minutes this season. I know you weren't necessarily saying you expect that this season. But I'm just sayin :)
yeah, the Ayton comp was more about general effectiveness on the court rather than skill type. Wiseman certainly projects to be more of a skill big than a bruiser. But you can't teach athleticism and a 7'6" wingspan, and whether by skill or force, the potential for rim protection is there, the lob threat is there, the high post passes over shorter defenders to back-door cutters is there, the speed and transition game is there, etc. Like Poole, when you combine the physical attributes with a good mindset and a serious work ethic, it's a safer bet that the player will ultimately pan out. Frankly, I envision Wiseman and Kuminga together, effectively swapping roles on offense (Wiseman the 4, Kuminga the 5), taking advantage of Wiseman's shot (which I do believe in) and Kuminga's pressure on the rim. Sorry, future tripping!! Just believe Wiseman will change a lot of minds end year 3 and that year 2, this year, we will still need an injection of faith.
It should be obvious that the point is to not say "Wiseman can be the same type of player as Ayton", but to instead say that learning NBA big man things is hard and takes time.
Between mental development, physical development, coaches learning more about his strengths, and training camp, I fully believe he will be put in situations where he can leverage his strengths this year and provide effective minutes. Something like 10-15 matchup dependent minutes will be effective. Combined with 15-20 from Looney, another 10-15 from Bjelica, and 5-10 of small ball, and you've got a reasonable center rotation. And if he earns it, they'll give him another 5 minutes some nights to test himself in less advantageous situations.
(Walks back up to his dark cave on Mount Wiseman, mumbling about precious free throw percentages)
The question to me is: Why have the Warriors been most successful playing small?
By my understanding, it's both the ability to play 4-out with Dray as the fulcrum playmaker, and having a fully switchable defense that prevents dribble drives.
If Wiseman is the athletic "large wing" type of big man more than the "bruising giant", that he seems to be, he could easily provide a lot of value within the small ball construct as a 7 footer... Of course, he's very raw and not there yet.
Really really hard to grade this offseason as the evaluation is mostly based on what moves weren't made and what information fans do not have. For example:
- Was a Siakam or a Beal available? If so, at what price? This team's achilles heel might be their lack of shot creation sans Steph, especially against teams like the Suns, Nuggets, Lakers, Nets and Bucks who have multiple high-level shot creators.
- Evaluating the draft is always hard, but from an asset perspective they ended up doing pretty well. Still, I'd love to know whether they knew Moody was sliding at 14 or not. Would they have picked Kuminga at 7 if they didn't know that? They didn't pick Sengun or Garuba which hurt my soul though. They also weren't able to buy a second to get someone like Butler or Sharife at 40/48 which is nitpicking but should still be done. Imagine if we could have Butler or Cooper on a two-way rather than Chiozza, especially Butler as he might contribute as much as Chiozza this season.
- A++ for the coaching changes. It's pretty evident they failed on development last year, so definitely a positive step in recognizing that and filling the roles with top tier guys like Atkinson and Jama.
- FA was pretty disappointing for us, though I can't fault the FO too much for that. We went after the right guys in Batum, Mills and Gay but they just didn't choose us for various reasons. OPJ was a great get, I really like Bjelica as a stretch 5 and Andre is a good guy to have around the team. The big problems were not even getting a TPE for Oubre (that sort of flexibility would be incredibly useful for future trades) and not getting Bazemore to resign. They did offer Baze the money though, so not really their fault, it was just unfortunate. It does leave us short of POA defense though, unless Klay remains Klay defensively too which is a big burden to put on a guy coming off those injuries.
- One thing I really like is that there seems to be an understanding of how smallball is the way the Warriors win. Rather than getting 3-4 plodding Cs who take up roster space, we've decided to embrace our smallball identity which I love. Could use 1 big for the regular season though, but it's not really something to be concerned about until Looney picks up an injury and then we can simply sign Jordan Bell (or equivalent) on a two-way or a 10 day contract to fill up the minutes.
- Another huge positive is that they have finally finally emphasized shooting again. For so long, it seemed the Warriors had stopped valuing shooting in tertiary players because they had Steph, Klay and KD. Thankfully, they've rectified that this offseason. Now, the next hurdle they gotta clear is shot-creation.
Overall, a pretty solid offseason. I'd say a B or a B+ is fair.
This is a GREAT conversation. Big ups to all of the participants!
It's all just in fun anyway. None of us knows what was actually possible, beyond trading Wiggins, Wiseman, #7, #14, and future 1sts for Ben 'Playoff' Simmons. I think we're all glad /that/ didn't happen.
Beyond that, projecting how good these moves are feels very contingent. Will Porter be out of shape and injury-prone or be this year's Wiggins -- motivated, rejuvenated, and better than anyone expected? Will Wiseman suddenly make the Jordan Poole leap and look like an NBA player or continue to flash tantalizing potential while hurting the team on both ends? Will the rookies progress faster than expected -- or languish in the G-league because they just don't belong with the big club?
Given the limitations, I give the FO a B+. They signed Steph (the must-have), seem to have drafted well (critical for the future, as we hope they won't be in the lottery again soon), and got intriguing picks from the bargain bin. They struck out on the mid-level with the guys (Mills, Batum) they felt could make a difference, which for me would have pushed them into A-/A territory, but they still have it if an opportunity arises (better making a move just to make one).
Bazemore leaving felt light a slap in the face, given that he left more years for the chance to 'pursue a title' with the Lakers, but I don't harbor any ill will (other than that I hope the Warriors annihilate the Lakers and Wiseman and Kuminga dunk hard on Baze's head). But I don't blame the FO for that one. He may start this whole season in LA, and that (hopefully) wouldn't have happened here.
The fresh coaching blood coincides with the acquisition of the talented youngsters, so that looks like a sensible plan. I wouldn't have minded if they had the chance to trade #14 or even #7 to move down and pick up a veteran wing, if one were available. But who knows?
Bottom line, I thought they did fine but didn't wow me. You can't sign Durant every off-season.
Aug 26, 2021Liked by punk basketball, Daniel Hardee
Today's show was brought to you by the letter "A" and the number "30". -- Count Dracula.
You can't just judge this off season in isolation. Despite minor issues with FO that have been blown out of proportion recently, Durant put his body on the line for the team and in free agency did the Warriors a solid by agreeing to the sign & trade for Russel who turned into Wiggins & Kuminga. Hell, you could go back to the FO outsmarting the league by clearing the path to snatch KD in free agency after Player's Union chose not to smooth out the giant spike in Payroll over 3 years as proposed by the league. At this juncture, after resigning Curry, the Warriors greatest need is restocking the empty pantry and fridge. You can't cook without ingredients and the Warriors cupboards have been bare of internal, controllable depth.
Now I get it. You can only have 5 guys on the floor at the end of the game. But neither can you play 5 guys 48 minutes a game. So the play, in my mind, is build the depth across the roster, build the chemistry, and hope one or more of the young guys can move into the 4-8 slots in the overall depth chart. And this doesn't need to be done in year one.
OPJ, Belly & Andre all on minimums? C'mon. That's solid.
Not using the TPMLE? Save that card for later. Smart move.
Losing Traded Player Exception for Oubre? That old salary slot is no longer needed as we now have 3 lottery pick salary rates to eat up those dollars on the roster.
"The Varriors vill vin the vest." - Count Dracula. (His opinion, not mine.)
This is a longer version of my take. In my model (which I am inventing on the fly as I type) the Warriors are title contenders this year and for the duration of Curry's extension. They won't often be the #1 seed, but the last time the finals was played between the #1 seeds was the Warriors 15-16 season when they own 73 games and lost in the finals. The goal needs to be to have enough talent and depth to finish in the top half of the draw with the starters completely healthy. I'd rather have a 25% chance every year for 5 years with deep roster than 33% for 2 years which goes to 0% if one of the starters is unavailable for th playoffs.
A couple of points MT really underlines (that I think supports my A- grade):
- Steph and Dray are bought in. Steph wants a team that can compete during his entire contract, not just one swing. Draymond was all in on Kuminga and Moody. Klay was stoned out on his boat and couldn’t be reached.
- The core didn’t want to gut the team. MT said they liked the idea of getting another star player not not if it was going to leave them with just them. I think this speaks to the confidence they have to essentially say “We’re a championship core when we’re together. Give us a good surrounding cast and we’re good to go.”
- Last year, Steph and Dray had to be leaders on the court, the sidelines and in the locker room, which is a burden that’s easy to underestimate. With Klay and Iggy back, adding vets like OPJ and Bjelly and JTA emerging as a leader as the season progressed, there’s a lot more leadership to carry that load. (I’d add that we’re seeing examples of Looney and Lee becoming leaders in their own right.)
- They still have the flexibility to do a deal down the road, but standing pat looks pretty good as well. MT said there’s no way they’d include Kuminga and Wiseman in a trade and would be reluctant to trade either.
- A lot comes down to Wiseman and the team is high on him, but they’ll be asking less of him and he’ll be surrounded by more offense.
- They both like the pics and can see them getting run and contributing.
Looney-Lee-JTA provide great leadership from the back line. Andre will obviously assume the leadership role in the locker room. BJelly & OPJ are vets. Those 5 guys (and new development staff) should enable Steph-Klay-Dray to really focus their energies on the court. But one guy who was not mentioned here is Jordan Poole. Despite his youth, he appears to me to be a Pro's Pro. He is the obvious leader in the weight room, and he is a good vocal cheerleader on the court. As far as Wiseman-Kuminga-Moody developing, I see Poole as the player who is going to set the bar, and be the leader of this group, in terms of setting the work ethic. I see him as the Pied Piper in the weight room, challenging the rooks to get there as early and stay as late as he does. So I see the potential for a subset within the locker room, led by Poole. Hmmmm ... Okay. It's the friggin' Three Musketeers! And Poole is D'Artagnan. He's already got the Mustache for it. He's perfect for the part.
Anywho ... I think we are overlooking the role Poole can play outside of his own play on the court.
Interesting. I’ve sort of thought of Poole as a talented, hard-working guy but also a little bit of a goofy, march-to-his-own-drum kind of guy. He seems fun and likable and guy who can keep thinks light and enjoyable in the dog days, but not a guy who would fire up his teammates and lead the charge into battle, especially being so young.
Of the really young guys (Poole, Wiseman, Moody and Kuminga), Moody and Kuminga actually seem to me likely the most likely future leaders based on what I’ve seen of their personalities. Moody seems very smart and logical; the type who would inherently do and say the right things around his teammates. Kuminga is more quiet, but has exudes strength, maturity and pride (no doubt shaped by his upbringing) that draws natural admiration.
Aug 26, 2021Liked by punk basketball, Daniel Hardee
I ride with you, Daniel and Dr. Tom. And I am looking forward to you crowing towards the end of the season as some of our more negatively-inclined writers/contributors eat crow. Which I am sure they will do happily, but still.
Aug 26, 2021Liked by punk basketball, Daniel Hardee
In fairness, I think you were a little more outnumbered in that discussion than you are here in the comments section. I really enjoy the various viewpoints, and the chance to add my two cents on why Duby is wrong 😁
It also seems we're 'warring' over what the grades actually mean. Duby gave a B and considers that a good grade; he left some headroom for the chance that Bob was able to sign Mills and acquire Giannis for Wiggins and change. I'm sympathetic to his reasoning, and I'm /happy/ with the off-season.
But if we give them an A for this off-season, do we have no category for how it could have been better?
Aug 26, 2021Liked by punk basketball, Daniel Hardee
I'm with Mr. Duby Dub Dubs, he said exactly what I think.
In other hand, i think Moses and John are ready to play, more ready than Wiseman (I would have liked to trade him for a more prepared center)
We still don't have any rebounders , of course they won't hire Rodman as coach, but a 1 hour video of Rodman playing, every day , can teach the team something 😅
Yes, a very fair request. Here are some more specific questions:
1) Looking at the TS% based stats, Steph has 20 attempts with a 98% TS and Poole has 13 attempts with a 57% TS, however Poole has a 0.19 tsWPA and Steph 0.10. tsWPA "includes drawing fouls and free throws" but FTs are basically even (4 to 3 both at 100%) so am I to believe that the massive gulf in tsWPA is Poole drawing a few more fouls?
2) I don't understand how the final WPA number is derived from the components. For Steph if you took eWPA and subtracted gbWPA you do get 0.10 but the same doesn't hold true for Poole. And that seems simplistic and leaving out other components as well.
3) Poole has five turnovers but a 0.00 toWPA adjustment, which also seems wrong.
I've got all of the WPA numbers entered and there is definitely some interesting stuff here and adjustments that make sense intuitively, I just want to understand more about how it is derived really. For a quick initial pass I'm multiplying my current adjusted PER by WPA+1 (since zero is average) and that seems to work well enough for now.
I haven’t dug into it enough to understand (2) or (3) but just to be sure we’re on the same page, let me say out loud something basic… WPA is based on the change of game state win probability. So if Poole’s points (and FTs) happen with the game close and Steph’s with the game not close, and if Poole’s missed happen with the game not close, and Steph misses when the game is close, then Poole’s similar points will make more win probability difference. Sorry, I know it is possible that you are asking something much more sophisticated than that…
I'm not very sophisticated :). I think that must be right. I guess you could say that all of Poole's turnovers happened with the game out of reach and that probably explains that there too...
My very initial impression is that WPA does capture something important that box score stats don't, and is therefore useful. But it is certainly not a complete picture by itself.
Aug 26, 2021Liked by Ivan, punk basketball, Daniel Hardee
Regarding the Warriors’ supposed failure to add rebounding, Otto Porter Jr. boarded last season at a much better clip than (for example) Marc Gasol, Paul Millsap, and both Lopi. And Bjelly was right with those guys.
Reb per 36:
9.0 Porter Jr.
8.1 Millsap
7.8 MGasol
7.7 Bjelly
7.2 Robin
6.6 Brook
Also, fwiw: GP2 pulled 9.9 boards per 36 last season in the NBA — in a tiny sample, but he also averaged 9.1, 10.7, and 9.4 in his last three g-league seasons.
Moody and Kuminga also showed a possible rebounding knack too. Of course, ain't no one rebounding like the Lakers, who could have Westbrook/Baze/LBJ/AD/Howard lineups with the lowest rebounder being Baze with a reb/36 of 6.2!
Aug 26, 2021Liked by punk basketball, Daniel Hardee
So do we grade your guys grades? 😁
I think we really should be grading Myers and what he built given the hand he was dealt by ownership (which are the exact parameters I would have given him if it was my team).:
- Highest payroll in the NBA, but a $400 million spending limit
- Preserve/build the future of the franchise unless there’s a “can’t miss” opportunity
- Keep the core happy
Now let’s look at Myers handling of the task:
-He started with a team that finished last season 15-5 with 8 players: Curry/Green/Wiggins/JTA/Looney/Poole/Mulder/Bazemore
- Subtract Bazemore and Mulder, but add returning players Klay, Lee, Wiseman*. Can we agree that’s an upgrade? (In my book it’s fair to look at the Warriors returning from injury/illness because those are real world factors in their decision process.)
- Now add veterans Iggy, OPJ and Bjelly. We’re now up to a 12-man rotation. That’s enough that guys can miss games for rest and occasional bumps and bruises and they can still field a good team, so Duby’s fear of relying on rookies seems misplaced.
- I think there’s general agreement that the draft was 👍🏼
So next year’s team could (should?) be much better, and they stayed within their (reasonable) payroll constraints, kept the core happy and have a future core of 25-and-under guys in Poole, Wiseman, Looney, Wiggins, Moody and Kuminga that gives us long-term Warriors’ fans a very bright potential future.
Call me crazy, but I think they win it all.
I like Ivan's points.
And the clear reference to Ricki Lee Jones' "Juke Box Fury" in the title. Great song off an underrated album.
Not that high on the offseason right now, personally. Will wait for the season to start before fully assessing it though.
It all comes down to health for me... because we def upgraded on role players and young talent vs the last 2 years. Night and day. can they stay on the court? Klay Wise OPJ and Belly
Cleveland is acquiring Chicago restricted free agent F Lauri Markkanen on a four-year, $67M deal in a sign-and-trade, sources tell ESPN.
- Woj
POR gets Nance Jr and CLE gets Derrick Jones Jr + picks
..
So when is Dame leaving? That roster is hopeless and is destined for a 2nd round exit at best. They need to admit they screwed up with trying to surround Dame with actual winning players. It's time to blow it up Sam Presti style and rebuild from scratch. They're just wasting everyone's time by keeping Dame around with that team and getting bounced early every year.
Oof. Bad contract for CLE...hes OK but not worth that kind of moola. Plays no defense.
Think you meant Chicago gets Jones + picks but I understood what you were intending.
No knock on Nance Jr either, I think he'll be a fine rotational player. I just think they're using him as a band aid on a wound that's already too big to contain
I actually really like Nance Jr., great defender whose super athletic, can stretch the floor, and is a solid passer. He is honestly the perfect type of player for the Warriors and is one of those super impactful players whose game goes beyond the numbers.
That being said, he is not going to shift the needle for Portland when it comes to winning championships.
Agreed, Nance is pretty solid, it's a nice pickup for them... just really a question of how much it matters in the grand scheme of things
I really like Nance and he does make them better.
The funny thing is there are trades they could make that could make a difference....like: CJ plus a million picks for Ben Simmons. That makes sense and would help Philly.
But no iteration of a trade like that exists where the other team isn't thinking, "we'll just wait it out and see if they'll trade Dame."
Imagine a death lineup of
Steph, Klay, Wiggs, Porter Jr. and Dray
If they're healthy that is just...scary
Wiggs had better be more aggressive at getting to the rack in that lineup...so much spacing
If that lineup lives up to its potential, Wiggins could end up looking like KD-lite
If he isn't, sub in Kuminga.
Doubly so against the Pistons, Rockets, Cavs, Raptors, Magic, or Thunder.
Not too worried about the grade. The Warriors are contenders next year if Klay is in form by playoff time. They have much better depth and lineup flexibility then last year.
Not enough credit given to OPJ and Bjelica signings. Injury factor is real, but upside of OPJ is HUGE. A difference maker. Bjelica has been an underrated player and fits perfectly with the current front court.
Yeah. Healthy OPJ — rugged 6-8, 7-1 wingspan guy who can shoot 40%++ from three, guard 2-4, and rebound like crazy — could be so huge for us, especially come playoff time. Teams pare down to 7-8-man rotations in the playoffs; and healthy Otto would clearly be in that inner core group for us, with Big 3, Wiggs, and Poole, plus probably JTA and Loon.
Curry
Poole
Thompson
Wiggins
Porter Jr.
JTA
Green
Looney
The other guys are gravy. Anyone want to face that group in the playoffs?
No Iggy? Aren't you one of his cheerleaders?
Call me crazy, but I believe (barring injury) Wiseman will be ready to contribute in a limited role in the playoffs (matchup dependent). If we're facing a team with an opposing big guy/bruiser I could definitely see Wiseman earning minutes matched up against them for 10-15 mpg.
Yeah, I could see that for a quarter or a game here and there … kinda like how Ezeli came in in 2015 and gave us a jolt of energy (sprinting the floor, putback dunks, etc.) after getting a bunch of DNP-CDs in that playoffs. Ditto JaVale in 2017.
My main point was that OPJ — if healthy — could be not just a here-and-there energy jolt or pace-changer, but a regular 25-30 mpg part of the core playoff rotation, including in do-or-die game sixes and sevens.
Agreed!
Right. How long is the list of guys that signed for 6M or less per year, that could play 25-30 MPG in a conference or NBA Finals and not only not kill you, but make a positive impact?
Patty Mills isn't on that list. Robin Lopez isn't on that list. It's mostly guys of OPJ's ilk. Wings who can defend and shoot: Tucker, Torrey Craig, Batum...Otto Porter, when healthy, is pretty easily the best player of that group.
Yeah, he's a real dark horse special heading into the season
…
Andre, BJelly, and DLee would probably be playoff rotation guys #9-11, but as we saw in last years finals (and most finals) those guys tend not to see the floor much if at all when the chips are down.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202107200MIL.html
Suns played 8 guys, Bucks played 7.
As good as I think JTA will be for us in the future, he doesn't have that playoff experience yet. If we get into a gritty series with seasoned vets that can school him I still got my money on Andre being ahead of him on that playoff depth chart even if he's 100 years old. I feel like Steve just trust him too much to sit him when it REALLY matters.
We'll see though, either way whatever JTA learns from Andre this year will be so helpful for everyone moving forward
Jta was fucking up big time that last play in game against lakers
and I'm glad he did. Getting schooled by Lebron should give you a lot of things to learn from. I'm sure he'll remember that
Key for the Warriors wa, IMO, Kerr/Myers getting a chance -- during the tail end of last year -- to see what a post-KD team should look like for the remainder of the Curry era. Thta allows them to craft a team around that vision.
Frankly, blessed with that vision earlier I don't think they take Wiseman, who can fit the new paradigm but isn't ideal. I must say, the 2020 draft choices weren't great for the Dubs. LaMelo was clearly the best player available, and the Warriors said as much leading to the draft, but he needs the ball in his hand and that really reduces Dray's role on offense. Since, as the Dubs stated at the time, Ball didn't fit with Dray, the better move might have been a trade down for another 2021 first while drafting Haliburton.
On Oubre, they were never going to resign a guy with limited fit for the new style for a big contract. He's a defender first and foremost who should never be more than a secondary offensive option on a team with a lot of shooters.
On the 2021 draft, both players fit the new paradigm and have tremendous long-term potential given their skill set and ages. I don't expect much from them for 2-3 seasons, but I could easily see Kuminga & Moody (along with Poole) becoming rotational pieces by the '23 season. Wiseman should be developed along the same timeline, through his value may ultimately come on the trade market.
FA, has to be taken with a massive grain of salt. As a hangover from 5 years of championship play (a price I'm fully prepared to pay), the Warriors have precisely zero flexibility in the FA market -- none. So, they got nothing last year. The W's did a lot better this year and may have hit some home runs if the OG's can stay healthy.
I think the staff additions are excellent.
A thought on Wiseman. If he develops along the lines of an Ayton, no mega-star, but not a bust, I think Wiseman will pay great dividends over time and prove to be the right pick. Just because the Warriors best closing lineup is typically small (Dray @ 5) doesn't mean they don't need a center. Bogut, Looney, Zaza, West, McGee, etc. all played vital roles in the Chip runs. And skilled Bigs are having a resurgence across the league. We know that there are limits to being short-handed at the 5 and resorting to heavy minutes for Dray at the 5 in the regular season is not what they want to do. We have seen the Warriors carry up to 4 centers on the roster and use different match-ups based on different skill sets.
So here is where Wiseman can become a great asset. We can't just keep reshuffling the deck for the centers on the roster, looking to sign one after another on veteran minimums. What Wiseman offers is a super-athletic Big who could be above average (or better) at all the different skill sets you hope to get with your centers. In the past, we have Looney for defense & screens, McGee for rebounding and lob threat, West for high post passing and solid mid-range game, and go down the list. All our previous centers had shortcomings in one area or another. Thus the history of carrying up to 4 centers on the roster. Wiseman has the potential to check all of the boxes, all of the areas of skill you could hope to get out of your center, to do it with length and athleticism, for 30-32 minutes a game ... for the next 12 years.
If you factor in the long term return, the sum value of his minutes at the 5, how this can extend Dray's career by limiting his regular season minutes going head to head with Joker/Embiid and Company, then I believe Wiseman was the right pick from a roster construction stand-point. It may have not been the sexy pick, but its the girl next door, one you were smart to marry pick.
And can we go through one free agency period without having to sift through all the centers in the league who might take a Vet Minimum? That process is getting old.
I agree, the kid is green. But I do believe the sum of his career, and how it impacts the roster and other things on the court like Dray's long term health, will ultimately justify his pick at #2. Just a thought anyway. ;-)
My only criticism is that the Warriors really have no history of using big men as big men, namely rebounding, rim protection, in and out game ala Kareem, and high scoring from the 5. Bogut, who had many of these elements was phased out for a small ball, quicker lineup who could shoot and pass lights out. That's the Warriors. That's the bet that the Warriors took and are taking for the next couple of years. Wiseman is an asset that can easily be traded, IMO. They are not worried and if he does develop, we will be calling them geniuses. My biggest question is have the Warriors placed their best bet on sticking with their ageing core who will have something to prove? I would venture to guess that that is their best option considering how hamstrung their financial situation really is. If they win it all this year, it will be a massive victory for the ownership and FO, and of course, the old core. I would say the odds are against them, but odds are only odds.
I understand why people tend to mention Ayton when discussing the type of player they want Wiseman to turn into. Ayton is the up-and-coming young center who made huge strides in the past few seasons.
However, I think it's worth noting that Ayton was a pure big-man prospect. Physical presence who sought out contact, both in scoring and rebounding.
Beyond the similar-ish physical profiles, I just don't really see it. At least not now. Wiseman just didn't really look to have the game/skillset/mindset of an effective NBA big. Which is to be expected given his lack of game minutes over the past few years.
I feel like this has already been said in threads here, but I really really hope the Dubs are not relying on Wiseman to give them effective minutes this season. I know you weren't necessarily saying you expect that this season. But I'm just sayin :)
yeah, the Ayton comp was more about general effectiveness on the court rather than skill type. Wiseman certainly projects to be more of a skill big than a bruiser. But you can't teach athleticism and a 7'6" wingspan, and whether by skill or force, the potential for rim protection is there, the lob threat is there, the high post passes over shorter defenders to back-door cutters is there, the speed and transition game is there, etc. Like Poole, when you combine the physical attributes with a good mindset and a serious work ethic, it's a safer bet that the player will ultimately pan out. Frankly, I envision Wiseman and Kuminga together, effectively swapping roles on offense (Wiseman the 4, Kuminga the 5), taking advantage of Wiseman's shot (which I do believe in) and Kuminga's pressure on the rim. Sorry, future tripping!! Just believe Wiseman will change a lot of minds end year 3 and that year 2, this year, we will still need an injection of faith.
It should be obvious that the point is to not say "Wiseman can be the same type of player as Ayton", but to instead say that learning NBA big man things is hard and takes time.
Between mental development, physical development, coaches learning more about his strengths, and training camp, I fully believe he will be put in situations where he can leverage his strengths this year and provide effective minutes. Something like 10-15 matchup dependent minutes will be effective. Combined with 15-20 from Looney, another 10-15 from Bjelica, and 5-10 of small ball, and you've got a reasonable center rotation. And if he earns it, they'll give him another 5 minutes some nights to test himself in less advantageous situations.
(Walks back up to his dark cave on Mount Wiseman, mumbling about precious free throw percentages)
The question to me is: Why have the Warriors been most successful playing small?
By my understanding, it's both the ability to play 4-out with Dray as the fulcrum playmaker, and having a fully switchable defense that prevents dribble drives.
If Wiseman is the athletic "large wing" type of big man more than the "bruising giant", that he seems to be, he could easily provide a lot of value within the small ball construct as a 7 footer... Of course, he's very raw and not there yet.
Yes! I sometimes daydream about getting Halliburton last year and Sengun or Garuba this year... preferably Sengun.
Really really hard to grade this offseason as the evaluation is mostly based on what moves weren't made and what information fans do not have. For example:
- Was a Siakam or a Beal available? If so, at what price? This team's achilles heel might be their lack of shot creation sans Steph, especially against teams like the Suns, Nuggets, Lakers, Nets and Bucks who have multiple high-level shot creators.
- Evaluating the draft is always hard, but from an asset perspective they ended up doing pretty well. Still, I'd love to know whether they knew Moody was sliding at 14 or not. Would they have picked Kuminga at 7 if they didn't know that? They didn't pick Sengun or Garuba which hurt my soul though. They also weren't able to buy a second to get someone like Butler or Sharife at 40/48 which is nitpicking but should still be done. Imagine if we could have Butler or Cooper on a two-way rather than Chiozza, especially Butler as he might contribute as much as Chiozza this season.
- A++ for the coaching changes. It's pretty evident they failed on development last year, so definitely a positive step in recognizing that and filling the roles with top tier guys like Atkinson and Jama.
- FA was pretty disappointing for us, though I can't fault the FO too much for that. We went after the right guys in Batum, Mills and Gay but they just didn't choose us for various reasons. OPJ was a great get, I really like Bjelica as a stretch 5 and Andre is a good guy to have around the team. The big problems were not even getting a TPE for Oubre (that sort of flexibility would be incredibly useful for future trades) and not getting Bazemore to resign. They did offer Baze the money though, so not really their fault, it was just unfortunate. It does leave us short of POA defense though, unless Klay remains Klay defensively too which is a big burden to put on a guy coming off those injuries.
- One thing I really like is that there seems to be an understanding of how smallball is the way the Warriors win. Rather than getting 3-4 plodding Cs who take up roster space, we've decided to embrace our smallball identity which I love. Could use 1 big for the regular season though, but it's not really something to be concerned about until Looney picks up an injury and then we can simply sign Jordan Bell (or equivalent) on a two-way or a 10 day contract to fill up the minutes.
- Another huge positive is that they have finally finally emphasized shooting again. For so long, it seemed the Warriors had stopped valuing shooting in tertiary players because they had Steph, Klay and KD. Thankfully, they've rectified that this offseason. Now, the next hurdle they gotta clear is shot-creation.
Overall, a pretty solid offseason. I'd say a B or a B+ is fair.
Good stuff here and I like the B+ grade.
Do you think Wiggs/GP2 would satisfy the POA defense?
Wiggs is good at POA for wings. I don't if he's able to handle quick guards (we mostly used Baze and Oubre for that last year).
And I don't think GP2 is playoff playable due to his lack of shooting so it's a moot point (though I'm sure he'd hold up defensively).
This is a GREAT conversation. Big ups to all of the participants!
It's all just in fun anyway. None of us knows what was actually possible, beyond trading Wiggins, Wiseman, #7, #14, and future 1sts for Ben 'Playoff' Simmons. I think we're all glad /that/ didn't happen.
Beyond that, projecting how good these moves are feels very contingent. Will Porter be out of shape and injury-prone or be this year's Wiggins -- motivated, rejuvenated, and better than anyone expected? Will Wiseman suddenly make the Jordan Poole leap and look like an NBA player or continue to flash tantalizing potential while hurting the team on both ends? Will the rookies progress faster than expected -- or languish in the G-league because they just don't belong with the big club?
Given the limitations, I give the FO a B+. They signed Steph (the must-have), seem to have drafted well (critical for the future, as we hope they won't be in the lottery again soon), and got intriguing picks from the bargain bin. They struck out on the mid-level with the guys (Mills, Batum) they felt could make a difference, which for me would have pushed them into A-/A territory, but they still have it if an opportunity arises (better making a move just to make one).
Bazemore leaving felt light a slap in the face, given that he left more years for the chance to 'pursue a title' with the Lakers, but I don't harbor any ill will (other than that I hope the Warriors annihilate the Lakers and Wiseman and Kuminga dunk hard on Baze's head). But I don't blame the FO for that one. He may start this whole season in LA, and that (hopefully) wouldn't have happened here.
The fresh coaching blood coincides with the acquisition of the talented youngsters, so that looks like a sensible plan. I wouldn't have minded if they had the chance to trade #14 or even #7 to move down and pick up a veteran wing, if one were available. But who knows?
Bottom line, I thought they did fine but didn't wow me. You can't sign Durant every off-season.
>> This is a GREAT conversation. Big ups to all of the participants!
Ditto that! Best W fan "takes" anywhere!
B+ seems to be the "on balance" grade here.
That should have said "better than making a move just to make one..." and "Bazemore leaving felt like a slap in the face..."
Today's show was brought to you by the letter "A" and the number "30". -- Count Dracula.
You can't just judge this off season in isolation. Despite minor issues with FO that have been blown out of proportion recently, Durant put his body on the line for the team and in free agency did the Warriors a solid by agreeing to the sign & trade for Russel who turned into Wiggins & Kuminga. Hell, you could go back to the FO outsmarting the league by clearing the path to snatch KD in free agency after Player's Union chose not to smooth out the giant spike in Payroll over 3 years as proposed by the league. At this juncture, after resigning Curry, the Warriors greatest need is restocking the empty pantry and fridge. You can't cook without ingredients and the Warriors cupboards have been bare of internal, controllable depth.
Now I get it. You can only have 5 guys on the floor at the end of the game. But neither can you play 5 guys 48 minutes a game. So the play, in my mind, is build the depth across the roster, build the chemistry, and hope one or more of the young guys can move into the 4-8 slots in the overall depth chart. And this doesn't need to be done in year one.
OPJ, Belly & Andre all on minimums? C'mon. That's solid.
Not using the TPMLE? Save that card for later. Smart move.
Losing Traded Player Exception for Oubre? That old salary slot is no longer needed as we now have 3 lottery pick salary rates to eat up those dollars on the roster.
"The Varriors vill vin the vest." - Count Dracula. (His opinion, not mine.)
This is a longer version of my take. In my model (which I am inventing on the fly as I type) the Warriors are title contenders this year and for the duration of Curry's extension. They won't often be the #1 seed, but the last time the finals was played between the #1 seeds was the Warriors 15-16 season when they own 73 games and lost in the finals. The goal needs to be to have enough talent and depth to finish in the top half of the draw with the starters completely healthy. I'd rather have a 25% chance every year for 5 years with deep roster than 33% for 2 years which goes to 0% if one of the starters is unavailable for th playoffs.
Damn Straight! ;-)
Abaddon shared Kevin O’Connor and Marcus Thompson podcast this earlier, but I’m sharing it again because, holy shit, it’s great and so relevant to this discussion!: https://www.theringer.com/2021/8/25/22641952/are-the-warriors-back-inside-the-title-race-and-potential-trades-with-marcus-thompson
A couple of points MT really underlines (that I think supports my A- grade):
- Steph and Dray are bought in. Steph wants a team that can compete during his entire contract, not just one swing. Draymond was all in on Kuminga and Moody. Klay was stoned out on his boat and couldn’t be reached.
- The core didn’t want to gut the team. MT said they liked the idea of getting another star player not not if it was going to leave them with just them. I think this speaks to the confidence they have to essentially say “We’re a championship core when we’re together. Give us a good surrounding cast and we’re good to go.”
- Last year, Steph and Dray had to be leaders on the court, the sidelines and in the locker room, which is a burden that’s easy to underestimate. With Klay and Iggy back, adding vets like OPJ and Bjelly and JTA emerging as a leader as the season progressed, there’s a lot more leadership to carry that load. (I’d add that we’re seeing examples of Looney and Lee becoming leaders in their own right.)
- They still have the flexibility to do a deal down the road, but standing pat looks pretty good as well. MT said there’s no way they’d include Kuminga and Wiseman in a trade and would be reluctant to trade either.
- A lot comes down to Wiseman and the team is high on him, but they’ll be asking less of him and he’ll be surrounded by more offense.
- They both like the pics and can see them getting run and contributing.
Looney-Lee-JTA provide great leadership from the back line. Andre will obviously assume the leadership role in the locker room. BJelly & OPJ are vets. Those 5 guys (and new development staff) should enable Steph-Klay-Dray to really focus their energies on the court. But one guy who was not mentioned here is Jordan Poole. Despite his youth, he appears to me to be a Pro's Pro. He is the obvious leader in the weight room, and he is a good vocal cheerleader on the court. As far as Wiseman-Kuminga-Moody developing, I see Poole as the player who is going to set the bar, and be the leader of this group, in terms of setting the work ethic. I see him as the Pied Piper in the weight room, challenging the rooks to get there as early and stay as late as he does. So I see the potential for a subset within the locker room, led by Poole. Hmmmm ... Okay. It's the friggin' Three Musketeers! And Poole is D'Artagnan. He's already got the Mustache for it. He's perfect for the part.
Anywho ... I think we are overlooking the role Poole can play outside of his own play on the court.
Interesting. I’ve sort of thought of Poole as a talented, hard-working guy but also a little bit of a goofy, march-to-his-own-drum kind of guy. He seems fun and likable and guy who can keep thinks light and enjoyable in the dog days, but not a guy who would fire up his teammates and lead the charge into battle, especially being so young.
Of the really young guys (Poole, Wiseman, Moody and Kuminga), Moody and Kuminga actually seem to me likely the most likely future leaders based on what I’ve seen of their personalities. Moody seems very smart and logical; the type who would inherently do and say the right things around his teammates. Kuminga is more quiet, but has exudes strength, maturity and pride (no doubt shaped by his upbringing) that draws natural admiration.
I ride with you, Daniel and Dr. Tom. And I am looking forward to you crowing towards the end of the season as some of our more negatively-inclined writers/contributors eat crow. Which I am sure they will do happily, but still.
Count me in on the ride WGBC!
WELCOME TO THE RESISTANCE CRUSTY! And Duby's so used to eating crow I think he's got a fetish for it
In fairness, I think you were a little more outnumbered in that discussion than you are here in the comments section. I really enjoy the various viewpoints, and the chance to add my two cents on why Duby is wrong 😁
🤣 I'm absolutely pandering to the optimists here, anything to kill time until the season starts.
And Duby was the first one to warn us the Oubre experiment was flying off the rails, he knows his stuff
Pre-season 40 soon to be 39 days away
A good day for some Steel Reserve
season it with a bunch of salt, and crow goes down real easy!
Steak does well with a bunch of salt too, just saying
Keep telling yourself that, Duby ;-)
negatively inclined.... it's a B!
And yes, I don't generally like being wrong, but when it's a player or the team being better than I imagined? I love it!
If you are the child of Jewish or Asian parents, a B might as well be an F. We are all the by-product of our respective upbringings.
Or any parent expecting high achievement from you…
Of course, it's just an example. I didn't mean to imply that those groups are the only ones with demanding parents.
Just to let you know, it did kinda come across that you were calling out those groups specifically
That jew stereotype certainly speaks to me, the son of a jewish mother
As a member of both of those groups, I'm comfortable with that.
hahah the future's looking bright if the fan base is warring between "excellent" and "pretty good"
It also seems we're 'warring' over what the grades actually mean. Duby gave a B and considers that a good grade; he left some headroom for the chance that Bob was able to sign Mills and acquire Giannis for Wiggins and change. I'm sympathetic to his reasoning, and I'm /happy/ with the off-season.
But if we give them an A for this off-season, do we have no category for how it could have been better?
Agreed. A is pegging the meter and should be generally unlikely.
Yes!
I'm with Mr. Duby Dub Dubs, he said exactly what I think.
In other hand, i think Moses and John are ready to play, more ready than Wiseman (I would have liked to trade him for a more prepared center)
We still don't have any rebounders , of course they won't hire Rodman as coach, but a 1 hour video of Rodman playing, every day , can teach the team something 😅
....another B grade?! THE AUDACITY
In Mexico the rating system is different, I give it 7 of 10 😅
Yes! Brilliant. Bring in Rodman.
With the last roster spot!
Doubly yes! Think of him against LeBron and the Lakers. Uh oh I’ve had too many gummies.
Rodman would make Poole’s short-shorts look like khakis and a polo!
OT: Can someone (*cough* Apricot *cough*) explain to me what WPA makes of Steph vs Poole in the following game: http://stats.inpredictable.com/nba/wpBox.php?season=2020&month=04&date=2021-04-14&gid=0022000836? I kinda understand that the "garbage time" component is large as the game got out of hand very quickly and I'm guessing Poole did most of his damage early and Steph did his later on. I'm having a harder time understanding some of the other numbers and most of all how they are assembled into the final WPA number. I have read the basic explanation of NBA WPA here: https://www.inpredictable.com/2013/06/nba-win-probability-added.html.
If nobody wants to bother that's fine too, just hoping someone has some insight they are willing to share, since I'm looking...
Can you ask something more specific? (I am not promising to understand this better than you do…)
Yes, a very fair request. Here are some more specific questions:
1) Looking at the TS% based stats, Steph has 20 attempts with a 98% TS and Poole has 13 attempts with a 57% TS, however Poole has a 0.19 tsWPA and Steph 0.10. tsWPA "includes drawing fouls and free throws" but FTs are basically even (4 to 3 both at 100%) so am I to believe that the massive gulf in tsWPA is Poole drawing a few more fouls?
2) I don't understand how the final WPA number is derived from the components. For Steph if you took eWPA and subtracted gbWPA you do get 0.10 but the same doesn't hold true for Poole. And that seems simplistic and leaving out other components as well.
3) Poole has five turnovers but a 0.00 toWPA adjustment, which also seems wrong.
I've got all of the WPA numbers entered and there is definitely some interesting stuff here and adjustments that make sense intuitively, I just want to understand more about how it is derived really. For a quick initial pass I'm multiplying my current adjusted PER by WPA+1 (since zero is average) and that seems to work well enough for now.
I haven’t dug into it enough to understand (2) or (3) but just to be sure we’re on the same page, let me say out loud something basic… WPA is based on the change of game state win probability. So if Poole’s points (and FTs) happen with the game close and Steph’s with the game not close, and if Poole’s missed happen with the game not close, and Steph misses when the game is close, then Poole’s similar points will make more win probability difference. Sorry, I know it is possible that you are asking something much more sophisticated than that…
That would explain why Curry's eWPA (expected WPA) is way higher at 0.45 vs -0.01
Thanks for the response!
I'm not very sophisticated :). I think that must be right. I guess you could say that all of Poole's turnovers happened with the game out of reach and that probably explains that there too...
My very initial impression is that WPA does capture something important that box score stats don't, and is therefore useful. But it is certainly not a complete picture by itself.
Regarding the Warriors’ supposed failure to add rebounding, Otto Porter Jr. boarded last season at a much better clip than (for example) Marc Gasol, Paul Millsap, and both Lopi. And Bjelly was right with those guys.
Reb per 36:
9.0 Porter Jr.
8.1 Millsap
7.8 MGasol
7.7 Bjelly
7.2 Robin
6.6 Brook
Also, fwiw: GP2 pulled 9.9 boards per 36 last season in the NBA — in a tiny sample, but he also averaged 9.1, 10.7, and 9.4 in his last three g-league seasons.
Moody and Kuminga also showed a possible rebounding knack too. Of course, ain't no one rebounding like the Lakers, who could have Westbrook/Baze/LBJ/AD/Howard lineups with the lowest rebounder being Baze with a reb/36 of 6.2!
We NEED GP2. I'm sorry, but everyone here seems to know it. I'm off the Chriss train, a little sad.
Can't we sign both? Mulder can play on a two-way, which seems a reasonable level for him...
There’s just one guaranteed roster spot left, so it’s either GP2 or Chriss, not both (and neither is eligible for a two-way, alas).
Somehow GP2 at 6'3" is the best rebounder on the entire team?
+1 for writing "Lopi"
Yea that gave me a nice lol too. 👍
So do we grade your guys grades? 😁
I think we really should be grading Myers and what he built given the hand he was dealt by ownership (which are the exact parameters I would have given him if it was my team).:
- Highest payroll in the NBA, but a $400 million spending limit
- Preserve/build the future of the franchise unless there’s a “can’t miss” opportunity
- Keep the core happy
Now let’s look at Myers handling of the task:
-He started with a team that finished last season 15-5 with 8 players: Curry/Green/Wiggins/JTA/Looney/Poole/Mulder/Bazemore
- Subtract Bazemore and Mulder, but add returning players Klay, Lee, Wiseman*. Can we agree that’s an upgrade? (In my book it’s fair to look at the Warriors returning from injury/illness because those are real world factors in their decision process.)
- Now add veterans Iggy, OPJ and Bjelly. We’re now up to a 12-man rotation. That’s enough that guys can miss games for rest and occasional bumps and bruises and they can still field a good team, so Duby’s fear of relying on rookies seems misplaced.
- I think there’s general agreement that the draft was 👍🏼
So next year’s team could (should?) be much better, and they stayed within their (reasonable) payroll constraints, kept the core happy and have a future core of 25-and-under guys in Poole, Wiseman, Looney, Wiggins, Moody and Kuminga that gives us long-term Warriors’ fans a very bright potential future.
That’s an A- in my book.
I give your grade of their grades a grade of B.
Careful, or I’ll grade your grading of my grading of their grades!
But are you grading on a curve? If so, please make it an arc and give it to Dray to add to his 3-point shot, which needs it.
C what you did there.
BANG