Big Draymond supporter. He has spoken about how he wants to set a better example for his kids. This aint it. Even if in some dysfunctional way this brings the team together, that punch was bullshit. Man, this is disappointing.
Yeah, I'm wondering if something like that didn't happen. Hard to see this leak being initiated by the organization, unless you really want to get cynical and say that Lacob did it to decrease Green's negotiating power for his extension.
If the top of the org gave that direction, it would undermine everything they’ve tried to build the last 13 years. Also, Lacob has spending limits but clearly they understand the value of putting the best team possible out there, repeater penalties notwithstanding
Seriously, can't see the organization doing this as it is too big a hit to the organization's reputation. I suppose if they were looking for a way to be rid of Green, this would be a way to do it. But yikes...
Draymond has had ample reason and opportunity to improve himself on this front. The passionate player excuse is worn out, he needs help, certainly has been provided help, but the behavior isn't changing. Time for the organization to change their approach or a jettisoning of the player.
I think Kerr's view is that Draymond missing training camp is not a punishment for Draymond, it's a punishment for the team and the new guys who need him there to get up to speed on the system.
But also "he's gotta go" is an overreaction to me. I get people are emotional about this and I do agree that he should probably miss some regular season games over this but this is not a "let him go from the team" type of incident imo. Punches in training camp have happened before, see Jordan and Kerr. What has NEVER happened is video attached, which is what will escalate this situation. Someone in the Warriors organization leaked the video and it is going to have big consequences for the present/future of this franchise imo. Warriors need to figure out who did it and fire them because this is a very bad look.
Goofus is suggesting that whoever thinks the leak is the bigger issue is effectively saying that Green punching Poole is a lesser issue. Goofus is comparing it to the way police departments tend to downplay police brutality. I'm pretty sure Goofus thinks that the punch should be the main issue being addressed here and that the leak is the lesser issue.
I mean he superman punched poole and looked like he knocked em out, looked like a punch you throw at an enemy not a teammate, factor in the size and age difference between poole and green and he should go imo
Well that's the reality of our society now and a logical person would take this into account. Things are alot different now then when jordan punched kerr
You can call me illogical but if you think that the main issue here is societal reaction, that contradicts what you just said that Kerr and Myers are sus for making it no big deal. Was it a big deal regardless or did society make it a big deal now that there is video?
Before the video, all we had to react to was the report that there had been an altercation and Green had forcefully struck Poole. That could have been a lot of things, e.g. physical play during a scrimmage ended with teammates squaring off and in the scrum, one player inadvertently striking another.
After the video, we know that it was something different. There was no "heat of the battle" jostling. It doesn't look like a two-sided altercation. It looks like Green walks up on Poole and deliberately runs into him. Then when Poole pushes him off -- not violently -- Green flies at him and punches him in the face, staying on top of him all the way to the wall. Green was the clear aggressor, at least for everything shown on the recording. If there are extenuating circumstances, we'd all be glad to hear them, but it's a big deal because Green basically assaults Poole and for no visible reason.
Him throwing a damm superman suckerpunch is a lot different then what I believe many of us expected, we only know this because of the video, that's my point, draymond so big n strong all he had to do was chin check poole, that punch was meant to hurt poole, that's alot different then the humbling punch we expected
They didn't make it seem like "not a big deal" at all. They explicitly said it was a big deal.
The "keeping it in house and addressing it" stuff is garbage. Fine, keep it in house, but clearly there is more that needs to happen than an apology (however heartfelt) and a timeout.
This did look like teammate bickering to me. Draymond and Poole were both yapping, presumably saying conflicting things albeit not facing each other. Something Poole said seemingly set Draymond off and he walked up to Poole and (likely) escalated it well past where it should have been. A full determination of that would require audio on this video, but that's not going to be released. The audio version could have Poole calling Draymond's mother an unkind name or it could have Poole just yelling out defensive instructions to Quinndary Weatherspoon or some shit, who knows.
This isn't Crittenton pulling a gun though, I'm sorry. Bobby Portis once punched Nikola Mirotic in the face and gave him a fractured face and a concussion and got suspended 8 games. Kicking Draymond off of the team is an overreaction although he should be suspended probably like 5 games imo.
It's just draymond history has to be taken into account, Draymond size and age difference has to be taken into account, and why would any young dude take days leadership serious now? Draymond has possibly costed us a championship due to not controlling his emotions, this is different then bobby throwing a punch
Yea they cant enable this at all, especially with Draymond past, imagine if this was oubre punching klay or something 2 years ago. Draymond has been given a pass for far too long, what's gonna happen now when draymond walks up on a ref? Is everybody going to have in the back of their mind this punch? It's just way too much
It's probably also worth noting that Draymond is from Saginaw, and Poole is from Milwaukee... it's highly unlikely that this is the first punch that Draymond has ever thrown or that this is the first punch that Poole has ever been on the receiving end of.
Of course, this is very different as they are both adults and this is in a professional setting. However, we certainly all still have a good part of our childhood in us, and Draymond has certainly discussed having a rough upbringing. This isn't to condone the actions here (which I don't) but full context is always important.
Any true response to this should not just involve punishment (i.e., fines and suspensions) but needs to address the root cause going on here, which is clearly Draymond's occasional inability to keep his emotions in check. I hope the team pushes for mandatory therapy/anger management for Draymond. He needs to learn how to channel his emotions in a more constructive manner. You can be competitive without being combative.
If there have been long brewing issues between Jordan and Draymond then these should be addressed as well. Not just in a "you guys good? hug it out!" sort of way. Some sort of professional relationship therapist should also be involved here. They don't need to be besties, but they do need to be able to work together.
Yeah, I would agree. I don't know what the CBA allows but it feels like he should be required to agree to such counseling before being allowed to return to the team. But that didn't happen and presumably they had access to this video previously to assess the severity rather than just relying on unreliable eyewitness testimony.
I guess the championship glow is officially gone now. LOL. SMH Dray.
Gonna be a long day of reaction videos and analysis from the national media, and going to be interesting to see how many of the folks who blew it off as "just stuff that happens in sports" change their minds. (I put myself in that group so not judging).
Well, I watched the video. It's terrible and there's no defense.
I think Poole lucked out a bit in that he was far enough away that Dray's full extension probably didn't have the full weight of the punch impacting. And it looks like Poole might have pulled away at the last moment. If They were just a few inches closer it could have been a lot worse.
None of that mitigates the severity of this, mind you. Just trying to figure out how Poole came out of it without worse injury.
He can apparently take a punch. But Green is WAY out of line. In non-NBA life, this would lead to criminal charges AND a civil lawsuit in which he'd pay millions.
If I was JP, I'd have a hell of a hard time even practicing after that incident, let alone being on the same team as Dray. This all boils down to whether the team is willing to accept the "personality-turned-baggage" that comes with Draymond. Me personally, I'm not sure anymore. From a basketball standpoint, JP is a miles-better investment than Green. From a human/morality perspective, Dray's actions are totally inexcusable and dulls the pain of losing him through free agency or trade.
> Fire whoever leaked that video. Got a whole bunch of mofos who can't be trusted. Everybody wrong. As soon as Dray start walking somebody supposed to get in front of him..looks like the video guys and support staff got more heart than some of then chumps on the sideline
Also Iguodala liked this tweet responding to his "and it's family business with my bro @Money23Green too...":
> The people in the Warriors facility must think otherwise because if it was really family business that footage from practice wouldn’t have been released.
New thread on Dray-Poole at https://dubnationhq.com/p/update-video-leaked-of-draymond-green?sd=pf
I hated to make a new thread as there are so many good comments here, but it's getting crowded here. If you are so moved, copy your comments over.
Big Draymond supporter. He has spoken about how he wants to set a better example for his kids. This aint it. Even if in some dysfunctional way this brings the team together, that punch was bullshit. Man, this is disappointing.
Just saw the video. Wow.
Also, fuck the video intern, but TMZ probably gave them life changing money idk
I said the same thing about TMZ $$$ below.
Yeah, I'm wondering if something like that didn't happen. Hard to see this leak being initiated by the organization, unless you really want to get cynical and say that Lacob did it to decrease Green's negotiating power for his extension.
If the top of the org gave that direction, it would undermine everything they’ve tried to build the last 13 years. Also, Lacob has spending limits but clearly they understand the value of putting the best team possible out there, repeater penalties notwithstanding
To be clear, no part of me thinks that Lacob authorized the leak.
Yeah -- decrease it to like ZERO.
Seriously, can't see the organization doing this as it is too big a hit to the organization's reputation. I suppose if they were looking for a way to be rid of Green, this would be a way to do it. But yikes...
Draymond has had ample reason and opportunity to improve himself on this front. The passionate player excuse is worn out, he needs help, certainly has been provided help, but the behavior isn't changing. Time for the organization to change their approach or a jettisoning of the player.
Kerr and Myers kind of sus for making it seem like not a big deal, should have came down harder on draymond, theres no excuse for that n he gotta go
I think Kerr's view is that Draymond missing training camp is not a punishment for Draymond, it's a punishment for the team and the new guys who need him there to get up to speed on the system.
But also "he's gotta go" is an overreaction to me. I get people are emotional about this and I do agree that he should probably miss some regular season games over this but this is not a "let him go from the team" type of incident imo. Punches in training camp have happened before, see Jordan and Kerr. What has NEVER happened is video attached, which is what will escalate this situation. Someone in the Warriors organization leaked the video and it is going to have big consequences for the present/future of this franchise imo. Warriors need to figure out who did it and fire them because this is a very bad look.
Let me get this straight. Draymond threw THAT punch and the Warriors response should be to figure out who leaked the video?
The Warriors should definitely figure out who leaked the video, yes
“This department has a big police brutality problem.”
“They’re brutalizing citizens.”
“Yeah, but that’s not the problem. The problem is whoever leaked the video!”
You suggesting that Draymond punching Poole isn't a problem is an odd idea to me, hadn't heard that before. I disagree.
Goofus is suggesting that whoever thinks the leak is the bigger issue is effectively saying that Green punching Poole is a lesser issue. Goofus is comparing it to the way police departments tend to downplay police brutality. I'm pretty sure Goofus thinks that the punch should be the main issue being addressed here and that the leak is the lesser issue.
I mean he superman punched poole and looked like he knocked em out, looked like a punch you throw at an enemy not a teammate, factor in the size and age difference between poole and green and he should go imo
Well we can't compare his punch to the probably hundreds of other practice punches in NBA history because those punches don't have video attached.
Well that's the reality of our society now and a logical person would take this into account. Things are alot different now then when jordan punched kerr
You can call me illogical but if you think that the main issue here is societal reaction, that contradicts what you just said that Kerr and Myers are sus for making it no big deal. Was it a big deal regardless or did society make it a big deal now that there is video?
Before the video, all we had to react to was the report that there had been an altercation and Green had forcefully struck Poole. That could have been a lot of things, e.g. physical play during a scrimmage ended with teammates squaring off and in the scrum, one player inadvertently striking another.
After the video, we know that it was something different. There was no "heat of the battle" jostling. It doesn't look like a two-sided altercation. It looks like Green walks up on Poole and deliberately runs into him. Then when Poole pushes him off -- not violently -- Green flies at him and punches him in the face, staying on top of him all the way to the wall. Green was the clear aggressor, at least for everything shown on the recording. If there are extenuating circumstances, we'd all be glad to hear them, but it's a big deal because Green basically assaults Poole and for no visible reason.
Him throwing a damm superman suckerpunch is a lot different then what I believe many of us expected, we only know this because of the video, that's my point, draymond so big n strong all he had to do was chin check poole, that punch was meant to hurt poole, that's alot different then the humbling punch we expected
They didn't make it seem like "not a big deal" at all. They explicitly said it was a big deal.
The "keeping it in house and addressing it" stuff is garbage. Fine, keep it in house, but clearly there is more that needs to happen than an apology (however heartfelt) and a timeout.
I think keeping it in house was a very solid approach.
I don't think that was a garbage approach, I think it was correct. But it is an impossible approach now that there is video.
Without the video we all just thought it was some teammate bickering type of incident which this is not
This did look like teammate bickering to me. Draymond and Poole were both yapping, presumably saying conflicting things albeit not facing each other. Something Poole said seemingly set Draymond off and he walked up to Poole and (likely) escalated it well past where it should have been. A full determination of that would require audio on this video, but that's not going to be released. The audio version could have Poole calling Draymond's mother an unkind name or it could have Poole just yelling out defensive instructions to Quinndary Weatherspoon or some shit, who knows.
This isn't Crittenton pulling a gun though, I'm sorry. Bobby Portis once punched Nikola Mirotic in the face and gave him a fractured face and a concussion and got suspended 8 games. Kicking Draymond off of the team is an overreaction although he should be suspended probably like 5 games imo.
It's just draymond history has to be taken into account, Draymond size and age difference has to be taken into account, and why would any young dude take days leadership serious now? Draymond has possibly costed us a championship due to not controlling his emotions, this is different then bobby throwing a punch
Yea they cant enable this at all, especially with Draymond past, imagine if this was oubre punching klay or something 2 years ago. Draymond has been given a pass for far too long, what's gonna happen now when draymond walks up on a ref? Is everybody going to have in the back of their mind this punch? It's just way too much
It's probably also worth noting that Draymond is from Saginaw, and Poole is from Milwaukee... it's highly unlikely that this is the first punch that Draymond has ever thrown or that this is the first punch that Poole has ever been on the receiving end of.
Of course, this is very different as they are both adults and this is in a professional setting. However, we certainly all still have a good part of our childhood in us, and Draymond has certainly discussed having a rough upbringing. This isn't to condone the actions here (which I don't) but full context is always important.
Any true response to this should not just involve punishment (i.e., fines and suspensions) but needs to address the root cause going on here, which is clearly Draymond's occasional inability to keep his emotions in check. I hope the team pushes for mandatory therapy/anger management for Draymond. He needs to learn how to channel his emotions in a more constructive manner. You can be competitive without being combative.
If there have been long brewing issues between Jordan and Draymond then these should be addressed as well. Not just in a "you guys good? hug it out!" sort of way. Some sort of professional relationship therapist should also be involved here. They don't need to be besties, but they do need to be able to work together.
That video mad me sad. Dray needs anger management counseling.
Yeah, I would agree. I don't know what the CBA allows but it feels like he should be required to agree to such counseling before being allowed to return to the team. But that didn't happen and presumably they had access to this video previously to assess the severity rather than just relying on unreliable eyewitness testimony.
Trade
I think we have solved the problem of choosing who resign
Trade to Detroit
Or in a tankin' team
I guess the championship glow is officially gone now. LOL. SMH Dray.
Gonna be a long day of reaction videos and analysis from the national media, and going to be interesting to see how many of the folks who blew it off as "just stuff that happens in sports" change their minds. (I put myself in that group so not judging).
Man, season started off with good vibes, now feels like we took a nosedive into mid-season 2019 Post-Draymond-KD incident.
Well, I watched the video. It's terrible and there's no defense.
I think Poole lucked out a bit in that he was far enough away that Dray's full extension probably didn't have the full weight of the punch impacting. And it looks like Poole might have pulled away at the last moment. If They were just a few inches closer it could have been a lot worse.
None of that mitigates the severity of this, mind you. Just trying to figure out how Poole came out of it without worse injury.
He can apparently take a punch. But Green is WAY out of line. In non-NBA life, this would lead to criminal charges AND a civil lawsuit in which he'd pay millions.
Draymond has a serious problem and I'm personally getting sick of his shit. I couldn't even blame Jordan for leaving at this point.
I saw a tweet by Trae Young saying Dray is trying to get to LA. I've always thought that's a fan thing.
Damnit Dray....
If I was JP, I'd have a hell of a hard time even practicing after that incident, let alone being on the same team as Dray. This all boils down to whether the team is willing to accept the "personality-turned-baggage" that comes with Draymond. Me personally, I'm not sure anymore. From a basketball standpoint, JP is a miles-better investment than Green. From a human/morality perspective, Dray's actions are totally inexcusable and dulls the pain of losing him through free agency or trade.
Lmao, Dray's new podcast is premiering right now, and the first thing I hear him say is "It's better not to meet your hero."
The timing of the podcast release and the TMZ video release is, whether intentional or not, really unfortunate timing for Draymond.
> Fire whoever leaked that video. Got a whole bunch of mofos who can't be trusted. Everybody wrong. As soon as Dray start walking somebody supposed to get in front of him..looks like the video guys and support staff got more heart than some of then chumps on the sideline
https://twitter.com/D_West30/status/1578396184669917184
EDIT: This is David West if that's not clear.
Makes me wonder how much $$$ TMZ offered for the video. Always a factor.
> As soon as Dray start walking somebody supposed to get in front of him
Yeah, whatever. I bet that kind of stuff happens all the time, up until the moment Dray threw the punch. I love West but he's off-base here.
From @KCJ_Swish:
> Who leaks practice footage??
From @andre in response:
> Them!
https://twitter.com/andre/status/1578393878691921920
The leaking of the video is going to cause some significant damage imo, perhaps more significant damage than the punch.
> perhaps more significant damage than the punch
There would be no video to leak without the punch, so I think this is a little off-base.
Also Iguodala liked this tweet responding to his "and it's family business with my bro @Money23Green too...":
> The people in the Warriors facility must think otherwise because if it was really family business that footage from practice wouldn’t have been released.
https://twitter.com/PoloCoolin/status/1578391992316338176