It's 2004 and the Sacramento Kings and the Minnesota Timberwolves are in the final seconds of a prolonged, testy battle to determine who advances in the playoffs to face the mighty Los Angeles Lakers. Poetically the deciding moment, either overtime or game time, comes down to a fascinating long-standing matchup: Kevin Garnet vs Chris Weber. To appreciate this moment we should understand the intertwined history of those two revolutionary players.
It's not like none of this no-good nonfeasance is nonsensically not not on brand or notoriously novel and nonetheless nostalgically and nonchalantly quite noticeably nominal no?
It sucks that we're going to miss CP3 and GP2 for some time but I feel unusually good about the depth this year. There isn't a player on the active roster outside of Gui that I don't feel comfortable giving non garbage minutes to. Podz, this is your chance to shine buddy.
Clippers beat the Kings 131-117. Clippers move to 8-9 and 3-6 on the road while the Kings fall to 10-7 and 5-2 at home. Clippers starters played a lot of minutes.
Calling an offensive foul on Steph's "kickout" is whatever but the more I'm watching that replay... the more I'm saying to myself WHERE THE HELL IS HE SUPPOSED TO LAND? BOTH defenders were directly in his landing space. You can make a case he got fouled on the game winning attempt at the end too but that's for another day.
If he doesn’t kick out, he literally can’t throw the ball to the hoop…he’s really tightening his core muscles to get enough on the shot, his lower half will buckle… it’s whatever.
The Magic doesn't even feel like a real NBA team. They're just a bunch of LA Fitness hoopers competing against other NBA teams lol. Cole Anthony is such a personality they're an easy team to root for
I scanned through the thread below. I agree with Asher and Timpf on this one.
The Dubs foul a lot because they're not good enough on defense vs guards. Steph and CP cannot hold their own defensively vs. players like Fox and SGA. So Wiggs ends up guarding them, and MM, and JK. But all three of them are wings, and we've all seen speedy guards turn the corner on all three of them. So, to compensate, they end up fouling.
Fouling is a symptom of improper personnel matchup and unathletic players.
van gundy kept harping on it - wish he would have said it only a couple times, i had to mute the mofo cause he kept repeating the same stuff
but on that note - if they have to foul cause they cant stay in front which i think is the majority of the issue, why dont they foul harder. way too many just not gonna affect the play fouls. i know most of our guys are mild mannered so thats prob part of it but we should make the fouls not so easy so atleast if we get beat - its on the opponents minds
most of our fouls likely were legit even if a bit soft to call and could go either way but there seemed to be many like the steph kickout which is ludicrous and the one on moody's 3 that didnt count which really impacted the game so as i said before butterfly effect and interdependency of things - refs shouldnt be totally blamed but cant be just given a pass. just like if we play better defense we prob get better offense so we cant say its not the players fault etc.
to that note of refs are part to blame - the inconsistency or illogicalness of the fouls. our guys like steph dont run into the people quite as much or as hard so we get less calls then the teams esp w younger guys who just ram into people. steph was def fouled on multiple rim attempts but he isnt doing it in the fox/monk style which is really awful to watch tbh and he doesnt get calls - its really stupid that you have to get fouled a certain way
Have you ever played in a game where your woopin the other teams ass and then the refs just start gifting fouls and “points” to the other team? Its nearly impossible to play through: you doubt yourself on defense, offense becomes stifled, mentally very difficult to focus because play is constantly being stopped in a clearly illogical manner. It doesnt happen often, but when it does, its really really hard to “win”
I mean, what's your theory? The league's refs sit in their back rooms at Ref HQ over a cauldron, throwing pictures of Draymond Green into a boiling mess and an evil hiss issues forth, and they all cackle?
I just don't see some conspiracy here by the refs to get those bad Warriors and teach them a lesson. That theory fails the eye test and the test of reasonable motivation. Their job is to call them as they see them and every team's fans think that they get cheated by the refs.
I watched pretty much every play and I definitely saw a lot of fouling, especially in the third quarter. The one thing that got my goat was the undoing of the flop call because I thought that was a flop, and certainly enough of one not to overturn it.
I don't always like Timpf, but I liked his analysis of the actual *reason* that the Warriors foul a lot, especially against teams like the Kings. It's not just random. His theory is that our defense at the wing is solid, but our defense against speedy skilled guards is not. Steph in particular isn't fast enough. So Fox and Monk were either getting to the hole or forcing a rotation scramble that led to fouling because of reaching. Noteworthy is that when GP went out, we fouled more, for that exact reason. We've long had a team that fouls a lot. It's not just this one game.
I’m with Asher on this. Refs are gonna make mistakes (and sometimes have emotional reactions and, ahem, personal beefs) and even if the mistakes are more or less randomly distributed, fans notice and remember the ones that confirm their suspicion that their team was treated unfairly because it eases the cognitive dissonance that arises from their team losing.
I’m not saying I believe this but I think the argument is (tinfoil as it may be) the league decided a decade of the Warrior show was enough, and its time to usher in the new faces. So the refs officiate the games in ways that disadvantage the warriors — allowing other teams more physicality, inventing strange new ways to eject our players (assessing a tech on a player for previous play while reviewing whether he was just flagrantly fouled? still insane), altering points of emphasis on the whistle mid-game in ways that disadvantage the warriors, etc.
Its not hard to see where this feeling comes from, and there’s no question we’ve received some sketchy at best whistles more than a few times this season. I’m not advocating full on conspiracy, but frustration with the officiating isnt necessarily unfounded or undeserved.
Also Timpf: "When you hear Steve Kerr talking about the Warriors, does he say there's a reffing problem, or a fouling problem? He always says there's a fouling problem."
This seems true to me. I've heard Kerr say it a million times. I think that they do actually physically foul more than other teams, and I think Kerr and Timpf agree on that. You can reasonably disagree with me easy, Timpf less easily, but Kerr seems pretty qualified.
Still fantasizing about Wagner in a Warrior's jersey. I thought Moody wasn't going to get past 10 so I wanted Moses at 7 and him at 14. At least one of them became a Warrior.
Clippers up 72-50 against the Kings at halftime. Clippers are 11/17 threes and have only 1 turnover. Kings are struggling to shoot (37%), are 7/26 threes, and have 8 turnovers.
Did anyone else notice that GP2 limped off the court to the locker room *before* returning and subsequently tearing his calf? The machismo in sports regarding injury is a personal pet peeve of mine, I really hope that he didn't go back out against the advice of the training staff to prove that he's a really tough man.
What? I thought his injury on that play and limped off and never returned.
But yeah. I remember Klay (😭) jumping up and down to test his knees in the tunnel and come back for free throws and try to play through it for another minute or so.
Yeah! It was very subtle, he wasn't limping anywhere near how he was after the tear, but maybe 10-15 minutes before the injury he went back in the tunnel. I distinctly remember saying "oh shit is he limping?"
Chris Webber vs Kevin Garnet in a do-or-die, buzzer beating moment needs a deep rewind.
https://youtu.be/K8qstHPLCy4?si=Q0eEbvewmqVPIceA (17:35)
It's 2004 and the Sacramento Kings and the Minnesota Timberwolves are in the final seconds of a prolonged, testy battle to determine who advances in the playoffs to face the mighty Los Angeles Lakers. Poetically the deciding moment, either overtime or game time, comes down to a fascinating long-standing matchup: Kevin Garnet vs Chris Weber. To appreciate this moment we should understand the intertwined history of those two revolutionary players.
It's not like none of this no-good nonfeasance is nonsensically not not on brand or notoriously novel and nonetheless nostalgically and nonchalantly quite noticeably nominal no?
not not at all.
Not always a fan of Luka's antics, but I do appreciate seeing him trash talking Dillon Brooks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckUsqXZR5cM
It sucks that we're going to miss CP3 and GP2 for some time but I feel unusually good about the depth this year. There isn't a player on the active roster outside of Gui that I don't feel comfortable giving non garbage minutes to. Podz, this is your chance to shine buddy.
Gui taking shots. It’s not like he’s Wiseman raw or Varejao old. He knows how to move to the right place on time. Give the man a chance 🙏
Who did the best in the Warriors vs Kings game last night? Who was YOUR MVP for the Warriors?
Wiggs, baby.
Best game yet.
Going with MM on principle.
Clippers beat the Kings 131-117. Clippers move to 8-9 and 3-6 on the road while the Kings fall to 10-7 and 5-2 at home. Clippers starters played a lot of minutes.
PG: 40 minutes
Kawhi: 37
Zubac: 30
Harden: 39
Mann: 31
Thanks to Mike and the Kings for keeping it remotely close enough that Lue played his starters heavy minutes
Big minutes for Clippers' stars tonight against Kings - PG13 (40), Harden (39), Kawhi (37). Dubs need to run them off the floor tomorrow night.
thats only likely if we play our young guys some serious minutes
Calling an offensive foul on Steph's "kickout" is whatever but the more I'm watching that replay... the more I'm saying to myself WHERE THE HELL IS HE SUPPOSED TO LAND? BOTH defenders were directly in his landing space. You can make a case he got fouled on the game winning attempt at the end too but that's for another day.
I agree that he didn't kick out to make contact and draw a foul, he swung his leg because his balance dictated the need for it.
Welp, not like they were calling many fouls last night... right?
I can't even blame Steph there. If he doesn't kick out to brace his fall a little better there's 2 pair of size 13-15 shoes down there waiting for him
I'm having trouble figuring out how kicking out your leg makes you MORE stable on landing.
If he doesn’t kick out, he literally can’t throw the ball to the hoop…he’s really tightening his core muscles to get enough on the shot, his lower half will buckle… it’s whatever.
He kicked out after the ball was gone.
It's sour grapes homerism.
The Magic doesn't even feel like a real NBA team. They're just a bunch of LA Fitness hoopers competing against other NBA teams lol. Cole Anthony is such a personality they're an easy team to root for
"Blaming officiating is a loser mentality" -- Jason Timpf, and me.
I scanned through the thread below. I agree with Asher and Timpf on this one.
The Dubs foul a lot because they're not good enough on defense vs guards. Steph and CP cannot hold their own defensively vs. players like Fox and SGA. So Wiggs ends up guarding them, and MM, and JK. But all three of them are wings, and we've all seen speedy guards turn the corner on all three of them. So, to compensate, they end up fouling.
Fouling is a symptom of improper personnel matchup and unathletic players.
GPII admitted this is an interview, also attributing the fouling to being too small in some matchups.
... and also a symptom of coaching that isn't quite reaching the players, for whatever reason. It's not like Kerr hasn't yelled it.
some points/thoughts
van gundy kept harping on it - wish he would have said it only a couple times, i had to mute the mofo cause he kept repeating the same stuff
but on that note - if they have to foul cause they cant stay in front which i think is the majority of the issue, why dont they foul harder. way too many just not gonna affect the play fouls. i know most of our guys are mild mannered so thats prob part of it but we should make the fouls not so easy so atleast if we get beat - its on the opponents minds
most of our fouls likely were legit even if a bit soft to call and could go either way but there seemed to be many like the steph kickout which is ludicrous and the one on moody's 3 that didnt count which really impacted the game so as i said before butterfly effect and interdependency of things - refs shouldnt be totally blamed but cant be just given a pass. just like if we play better defense we prob get better offense so we cant say its not the players fault etc.
to that note of refs are part to blame - the inconsistency or illogicalness of the fouls. our guys like steph dont run into the people quite as much or as hard so we get less calls then the teams esp w younger guys who just ram into people. steph was def fouled on multiple rim attempts but he isnt doing it in the fox/monk style which is really awful to watch tbh and he doesnt get calls - its really stupid that you have to get fouled a certain way
Yep, Stan is starting to be almost as annoying as his brother.
Hard not to think like a loser when you lose because of the officiating
the 2002 kings would like a word
The 2000 Trail Blazers too would like to talk about it
What does this mean?
Have you ever played in a game where your woopin the other teams ass and then the refs just start gifting fouls and “points” to the other team? Its nearly impossible to play through: you doubt yourself on defense, offense becomes stifled, mentally very difficult to focus because play is constantly being stopped in a clearly illogical manner. It doesnt happen often, but when it does, its really really hard to “win”
And the 2018 NBA champions Houston Rockets /s
Maybe the refs called fouls because we fouled?
I mean, what's your theory? The league's refs sit in their back rooms at Ref HQ over a cauldron, throwing pictures of Draymond Green into a boiling mess and an evil hiss issues forth, and they all cackle?
I just don't see some conspiracy here by the refs to get those bad Warriors and teach them a lesson. That theory fails the eye test and the test of reasonable motivation. Their job is to call them as they see them and every team's fans think that they get cheated by the refs.
I watched pretty much every play and I definitely saw a lot of fouling, especially in the third quarter. The one thing that got my goat was the undoing of the flop call because I thought that was a flop, and certainly enough of one not to overturn it.
I don't always like Timpf, but I liked his analysis of the actual *reason* that the Warriors foul a lot, especially against teams like the Kings. It's not just random. His theory is that our defense at the wing is solid, but our defense against speedy skilled guards is not. Steph in particular isn't fast enough. So Fox and Monk were either getting to the hole or forcing a rotation scramble that led to fouling because of reaching. Noteworthy is that when GP went out, we fouled more, for that exact reason. We've long had a team that fouls a lot. It's not just this one game.
I could be convinced, though, that the dubs don’t flop as much as some other teams (like the Kings), which seems like a more plausible explanation.
I’m with Asher on this. Refs are gonna make mistakes (and sometimes have emotional reactions and, ahem, personal beefs) and even if the mistakes are more or less randomly distributed, fans notice and remember the ones that confirm their suspicion that their team was treated unfairly because it eases the cognitive dissonance that arises from their team losing.
I’m not saying I believe this but I think the argument is (tinfoil as it may be) the league decided a decade of the Warrior show was enough, and its time to usher in the new faces. So the refs officiate the games in ways that disadvantage the warriors — allowing other teams more physicality, inventing strange new ways to eject our players (assessing a tech on a player for previous play while reviewing whether he was just flagrantly fouled? still insane), altering points of emphasis on the whistle mid-game in ways that disadvantage the warriors, etc.
Its not hard to see where this feeling comes from, and there’s no question we’ve received some sketchy at best whistles more than a few times this season. I’m not advocating full on conspiracy, but frustration with the officiating isnt necessarily unfounded or undeserved.
Also Timpf: "When you hear Steve Kerr talking about the Warriors, does he say there's a reffing problem, or a fouling problem? He always says there's a fouling problem."
This seems true to me. I've heard Kerr say it a million times. I think that they do actually physically foul more than other teams, and I think Kerr and Timpf agree on that. You can reasonably disagree with me easy, Timpf less easily, but Kerr seems pretty qualified.
Still fantasizing about Wagner in a Warrior's jersey. I thought Moody wasn't going to get past 10 so I wanted Moses at 7 and him at 14. At least one of them became a Warrior.
Fantastic shooting games from the Clippers "Big 3" so let's hope they blew their payload on the Kings
With the Nuggets beating the Rockets tonight, Nuggets remain undefeated at home (9-0) while the Rockets remain winless on the road (0-7).
Clippers up 72-50 against the Kings at halftime. Clippers are 11/17 threes and have only 1 turnover. Kings are struggling to shoot (37%), are 7/26 threes, and have 8 turnovers.
Clippers currently blowing out the kings 72-50 at end of first half. Clippers don’t know how the refs are going to hit them
In second half 😩
So they will be on SEGABABA tomorrow? Hopefully we can capitalize on that
Did anyone else notice that GP2 limped off the court to the locker room *before* returning and subsequently tearing his calf? The machismo in sports regarding injury is a personal pet peeve of mine, I really hope that he didn't go back out against the advice of the training staff to prove that he's a really tough man.
Man, that sucks. So, if the training staff had a policy of: "Talk to us if you feel the slightest twinge, this might've been prevented."
What? I thought his injury on that play and limped off and never returned.
But yeah. I remember Klay (😭) jumping up and down to test his knees in the tunnel and come back for free throws and try to play through it for another minute or so.
found it -- 35 seconds left in the first, right after he had that play where he had to jump up on the announcers table.
Yeah! It was very subtle, he wasn't limping anywhere near how he was after the tear, but maybe 10-15 minutes before the injury he went back in the tunnel. I distinctly remember saying "oh shit is he limping?"
Isn't that where they ride the bike?
I thought he went to take a shit or throw up like he’s done before. It was weirf