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Lol, 2-2, Eric, is good enough for me. If we hang around .500 for another 16 games, well be able to make a run for a playoff spot the rest of the way. With Dray on-board, we'll need this time to start steadying the ship...The interior needs some help; Dray will fill that need. Work-in-progress, but, there is definitely progress....

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Regarding the discussion down this thread of whether the Dubs did the right thing taking Wiseman over trading down for Halliburton, what makes me salivate is dreaming about getting TWO great players in next year's draft to make a Big Three for the next decade. Whatever Wiseman is able to do this year doesn't even come into the equation. Nor does Halliburton (although he was my second favorite--after Wiseman--in the draft.)

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I generally subscribe to the theory that when you have a once-in-a-lifetime player (like Steph) you go HARD on maximizing your title chances during their prime rather than planning several yrs down the road when they'll be wearing down. Halliburton likely increases the odds of winning a title during this yr + probably the next, but at least Wiseman is showing significant promise in such a short period of time.

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And maybe Poole plays so well that we trade him to the Kings and fleece them out of Halliburton because he's playing so well that he takes over as PG on 1st team, pissing off Fox. [Halliburton was a +20 w/13 pts and 6 assists last night in the win over Denver. And Fox was just a +13 - but had 24 pts & 9 assists.] I see Sacto disgruntled 2.0 coming already. hehehe

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It's nice to dream

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If anyone here is worried about feeling overconfident, go read the latest Nick Friedell piece on ESPN.com. Apparently our wins came against high school teams missing half their rosters and everyone sucks. Well maybe Wiseman is maybe okay and Curry will “occasionally” get hot.

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It’s better this way anyway. I don’t want respect from the buffoons

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Or, you know, don't, and don't give them the clicks they are hoping for.

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This...this right here

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It felt like Steph was extra hype when he made that 3 when Wiggins screened for him on a relocating 3. He was probably like finally that just happened

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He said as much in the presser after.

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Yup saw that after I commented lol

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I posted this in the other thread, but moving this hot take here for your consideration:

Damion Lee has been our most consistently good player all season long.

1. BKN: 12min, 3 pts, +8 in a blowout. (Only Mulder, +9 in 6min of garbage time, had better +/-.)

2. MIL: 19min, 9 pts, -10 in a mega-blowout. (Only JTA, -9 in 12min, and Baze, -4 in 4 min, had better +/-.)

3. CHI: 20min, 12 pts, +11 and the game-winner. (Only Looney, +12 in 17min, had better +/-.)

4. DET: 19min, 9 pts including a late dagger to seal the win, +9. (Three players had bigger +/-, all with more minutes: Wiggins +19 in 38min, Wiseman +23 in 22min, JTA +15 in 24min.)

He should be playing 20+ minutes every game until this stops happening.

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Or maybe he's playing the right amount of minutes to maximize his effectiveness?

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And he came in last night in the 4th with a minute or 2 left and immediately hit a 3.

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If he'd been playing more minutes, he might not have had the energy left to make that shot which stopped the bleeding.

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He's clearly more effective than many, but it may just be that he knows the system better and the team is willing to take some L's to get Oubre and Wiggins comfortable.

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He's just getting his feet wet. We will definitely see him more in crunch time and with the starters.

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Wiggins played well today but still rattled in several self created 3’s. His career average, and the way the shot looks, indicate that’s not sustainable. I hope his energy on both ends can sustain when he’s not making (hopefully not taking) those 3’s. He looked really good on both ends for much of the game tonight.

Good team effort, Draymond better get back on the court soon though.

Why couldn’t have JTA played with this confidence in the preseason? It’s like he had to be cut to be willing to take shots, he’s clearly able to finish!

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Let's give some credit to Wiggins. He's got a tool box and he is just digging into it, at last. We didn't see this kind of play last season. This is inspired basketball. They are giving him a lot of room to play his game and last night, things clicked. When he plays with urgency, he's good.

JTA is not the kind of talent that we look to for super powers. He is doing better than I imagined, so far. Mulder is still on the fence. I'm still waiting for a display of his shooting.

Any word when Green will return?

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Planning on Friday for his return.

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I'm glad you brought up that point on Wiggins shot selection. I thought that the last game against the Bulls IS exactly the type of version of Wiggins I idealize for this team. Very selective with his shots. Was driving and kicking out so much more. Good defender. Yes his defense was great this game but he was throwing up and making some very difficult shots this game. Feel that the game he played against the Bulls is alot more sustainable long term and a better fit especially when Dray comes back.

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Ok hypothetical time knowing now how the draft order fell into place (and watching the Kings right now)

If you all had to do it all over again, would you have traded the 2nd overall pick to Phoenix for Oubre and the rights to Halliburton or stuck with landing Wiseman?

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I don't know. I wasn't sure how big Wiseman's upside was because when everyone says "he can shoot, he can dribble" I said, "he didn't do that in games. workout highlights don't count." Well now he's doing it in games. That's evidence to his work ethic and ability to translate the hard work to the court. That raises his ceiling.

I think Halliburton's ceiling is great too. Tough call. There's also a salary advantage to Haliburton being so much lower.

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I was a "either Wiseman or Haliburton" guy all through the run up to the draft. I think Haliburton will be really good. But I think Wiseman's the real deal too. With Chriss hurt, where would we be right now without Wiseman? We'd be better on the wing/guard spots with Hali but we'd have some fourth-rate free agent center behind Looney. I think we would be hosed.

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Wiseman's shooting has been a revelation, I didn't know he had that in his game and it's changed my evaluation of him. Hopefully it's real.

He has a chance to be a rare player with a skillset that will help Curry and Draymond both age very well. A PnR finisher to punish the blitzes on Curry (Curry's rarely had this other than David Lee and McGee), a 3 point threat from the center position (crucial if you are going to have Draymond at 4), a transition threat (that play today was special, very few centers can do that), and a rim protector (work in progress, but 2.3 blocks per 36 so far is a good sign, and we've seen Draymond be dominant when paired with a rim protecting center in Bogut). Not to mention that if he pans out, they will be less reliant on Draymond at center to be good which can help save Draymond more for the playoffs.

He's got plenty to improve on to actually reach his potential and I'm not sure he ever becomes a good passer but there's enough there to justify taking him #1 in a redraft at this point imo. Let's see how his shooting is as the season goes on.

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Rules question: Is it legal to throw a lob pass as the inbounds?

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(I'm envisioning full-court)

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These are all great points and pretty much how I feel. Wondering allowed, does Wiseman move well enough that he can play “small ball” 5? Obviously, he’s not small, but aren’t shooting from deep and running people out of the gym what makes small ball deadly?

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It's also "be able to switch and guard pick and roll". Remains to be seen.

He doesn't need to be as good as Anthony Davis or Bam Adebayo in space to make it work. He just needs to be good enough where it's not easy to attack him.

Then on O, you'd want him to not only space the floor/run the floor but also be a matchup weapon. Dominate the offensive glass and/or be able to get buckets 1:1 on the smaller guy guarding him.

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He seemed to have decent vision in college and seemed to make the right reads at least from the handful of highlights I saw from his 3 collegiate games which does give me some hope.

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Halliburton is pretty amazing, would be an obviously good fit for the Warriors, and I don't think it would necessarily have been wrong to take him. Wiseman is also amazing so far, though we will have to see how both players improve over this season and the next to really judge. Heck, we're going into the third year of basketball following the Trae Young/Luka Doncic trade, and that outcome isn't totally settled yet. Obvious advantage Doncic, but Trae is still making his case. So it may be a long while yet before we see who really were the best picks from the 2020 draft.

I am definitely thinking the teams picking 3rd through 11th are going to have a tough time justifying their guy over Tyrese though.

I am also thinking that the statements about how weak this draft class was are going to turn out to be overblown.

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Given that a top record looks unlikely at this point, that’s basically Halliburton for Wiseman and two seconds, which, I’m pretty sold on Halliburton, so that comes down to how much you value Wiseman. His stock’s gone up in my eyes since the draft, but I still think I’d do that. Halliburton already looks like he’s going to be a stiff in this league

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Halliburton and two seconds for Wiseman I mean. I need sleep

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Yeah so in essence it's Halliburton and Minnys 2nd round pick for Wiseman (since we already have Oubre) maybe another Phoenix 2nd thrown in to bridge the gap since we were also taking Oubres salary.

One factor that I failed to consider is salary matching for CP3? Don't know how that could have worked out in a hypothetical 3 team trade or if a trade exception would have been created on Phoenix's end when they traded Oubre to us and how that would have worked with a Paul trade.

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Haliburton looks legit (good job LGW fan base for correctly identifying NBA talent) but the roster would be completely dependent on what bigs the Warriors courted and signed in FA. All that matters right now is that Wiseman is capable of playing well, and he needs to for the team to go far. Wiseman on the second unit is a true game changer.

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*Haliburton (x5)

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*Stud* Edit button please!

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Way too early to make this kind of judgement. Oubre is adjusting. Wiseman is very raw. If he wins ROY, the answer will be there. Haliburton was a great pickup for Sac. We could have definitely used him. He fits in better with Kerr's system while Wiseman looks awkward and lost on many occasions.

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Dec 30, 2020Liked by punk basketball

Wiseman no question.

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Same.

Dude is a 19 year old rookie. I just keep seeing that sequence where he switches in the post, shows enough to force the pass, then switches back to his man to get q finger on the shot... secures the rebound and finishes coast to coast with a crossover and euro step into a dunk.

Wiseman is a keeper

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Wait. I just realized he did this all with his off hand... dribbled mostly right and dunked it with his right.

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It actually looks like he opens up the floor when he comes on with the second unit. I’m curious to see if they are going to give him more second unit time with Wiggins once Green comes back. It would be a shame if JTA or Lee lost minutes.

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Well said. The doubters like the poster above will stop hypothesizing different scenarios soon enough

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You forgot the "saves a baby from a burning building" part.

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I say that because his ceiling is without limit AND he has demonstrated an ability to learn quickly.

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Actually, I don't see this ability to learn quickly, yet. So many areas of his game are non existent. He doesn't know how to rebound and position himself in the paint. This is a basic skill to most big men. He doesn't know how to pass. He is relying on his size almost all of the time. No one's ceiling is without limit. Impossible.

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I mean, besides him improving his jumper from being considered a non-factor pre-draft to being a plus in NBA games, and improving his handle to the point of being able to dribble in the open court against NBA players, and improving his rebounding effort and box outs from game 1, and improving on his defensive rotations from the first half of the Detroit game to second half, and screening much more effectively after the Brooklyn game, and starting to pass a little bit out of the high post in his fourth NBA game after not doing so in the first three, I agree, he doesn’t seem able to learn quickly.

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Okay, what limits do you put on his ceiling?

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It's not a fair question at this stage. We've hardly seen him play. Let's see how the Dubs develop him, what they ask him to do and how he accomplishes it. Draymond is not even back yet. By all accounts, both will work with each other. Dray will involve him more than he is now, or should involve him more. Since Chriss is out, JW will get more minutes but they are going slowly with him because he can't do what most people learn in college to do. Sure, he can block shots. He's a giant! He can shoot from the perimeter. But will his % hold up over time. Look at Oubre. He was seemingly a developed player before we got him. He now looks like he has to relearn some the fundamentals.

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Dec 30, 2020Liked by punk basketball

Wiseman with his first career assist! Huzzah!

Seemed like in general he was a little more aware trying to pass, at least on set plays. When things break down he's still all tunnel vision right now

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Even Oubre made a pass out of a drive!!

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I'm into this whole drive and kick new philosophy

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If the whole team buys in then we could be pretty good.

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Dec 30, 2020Liked by punk basketball

Suns and the Clippers are burying the Pelicans and the Wolves, respectively, right now.

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Such conflicting rooting interests:

I root for KAT and D'Lo And I hope they do well this season.

I also like Anthony Edwards and I like to tune in to Wolves games mainly because of him.

Love Naz Reid. I honestly believe he can be a poor man's version of Adebayo.

But I also root for the Wolves to be bad enough to be a deep lottery team (but not quite at the level of an Eastern Conference bottomfeeder) AND i root for Edwards just to be a shade below Wiseman so I don't live with the "What If He had fallen to the Dubs?" (especially after losing Klay)

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The best case scenario for their draft pick is still that they’re the worst team in the league. (12% #4 pick, 48% #5 pick, 40% 2022 unprotected). You can root for them to bottom out. :-)

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Dec 30, 2020Liked by punk basketball

MyGuyJuan™ LOL !! That's too funny! Wait a minute, I remember MyGuyBell too :)

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*whistles nervously*

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Dec 30, 2020Liked by punk basketball

The Warriors have some spacing issues, but they are the 2016 Warriors with spacing compared to the Pelicans. Yikes.

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Dec 30, 2020Liked by punk basketball

Warriors on NBCS

@NBCSWarriors

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19m

The Warriors exercised Jordan Poole's third-year option for the 2021-22 season

Going to be interesting next year when they're having to attach a draft pick to trade Poole because we'll be needing that roster spot. Either that or I guess this means they're not too enamored with Bazemore at this point. THERE IS NO ROOM!

You may be bringing in Jessup, giving a roster spot to Mannion, re-signing Oubre, Chriss, Wanamaker, JTA, Mulder, plus the two potential first round draft picks. Then you have Klay, Curry, Wiggins, Draymond, Wiseman, Looney. 15 roster spots off the bat not counting two ways so where the H.e// are you putting Poole!?

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As I recall, they didn't sign Looney to an extension because he never played that much or that well before they let his deadline pass. He'd had a couple of hip surgeries and was just trying to be healthy & learn the NBA game. After he was able to move again, he became a great NBA defender - especially against Harden in the playoffs. One of the few who was hardly ever called for a foul when guarding him, especially out by the 3 point line.

So I would say that they see a lot of potential with Poole that will take some time to develop. Not all NBA players look great in their first couple of seasons but become good players over time. Especially when they stay in the same system. Look at all of the "marginal" players that San Antonio has made useful. One of them was Kawhi. He wasn't all that good when they traded for him as a rookie - a pretty one-dimensional player. But he became a great player and helped them win a 4th championship. So patience is a good thing.

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Oh and I forgot D.Lee! So again someone walk me thru this? Why Why Why Why Why does the FO like to double down on their damn mistake draft picks. The one person they probably should have done so on this should have been Looney and he's the one player they declined to pick up an option.

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Strange decision making at the back of the roster for sure. But at least it’s the back of the roster.

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Dec 30, 2020Liked by punk basketball

It's a weird move, not only does he not look very good, but he doesn't really fit in with their new defense/athleticism around Curry direction.

Perhaps the extra team control actually makes him more tradeable than if they decline the option? I dunno, I don't quite get it myself. Feels a bit "we can't admit we made a mistake"-y.

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Feels a bit emperor’s clothesey. Like individuals within the organization are managing optics in front of Lacob, possibly to ward off the ambitious of competitors that have his ear

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I mean, Wanamaker looks objectively better... right?

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Seems like a pretty different situation. Wanamaker is a free agent vet. If he somehow absolutely goes off this season he’s long gone the next. If Poole somehow finds his allegedly solid three-point shot at any point over the next two years he immediately becomes a team-controlled bargain. Same for Smailagic. May never happen for either, but if it does, it’s got to be WAY more valuable than hired guns long term. Worth the risk for that low on the depth chart.

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Way better imo, and Wanamaker's active hands on defense and wingspan work perfectly for the type of swarming defense they want to execute.

But it's also that Mannion presumably has a roster spot next season? So are they planning on Poole and Mannion as the backup PGs next season? When they are theoretically trying to go all in on a championship run before Curry hits free agency?

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Mannion has to show something this year. He’s a second rd pick on a two way. Not a guaranteed roster spot by any means.

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Yeah but he's 19 and the Warriors usually give those guys more than one season. Unless he's signing another two way?

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I thought Mannion looked like an NBA player even without his shot falling. Hopefully they figure out how to keep him around. Hos path looks like another two way at this point.

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I thought he had some really nice drives in preseason where he collapsed the D and found the open shooter.

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Poole doesn’t seem to move the needle but it’s a cheap contract right?

They can’t really pay Wannamaker and Bazemore next year so those two and Mulder are probably out unless the Warriors get a top 10 finish. (Smiley has a 7 year contract right?)

JTA ‘s the question I have: now that he’s finishing instead of passing out to start opposing fast breaks, what can the Warriors pay him next year since they cut him and have him on a two way?

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Yeah, definitely. But Poole is so young and we have so few game minutes this year to judge. Maybe he’s showed them something in practice.

I get the feeling Wanamaker is who he is and Poole is still arriving.

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Yep Poole is on his way, but he had to park miles away so it’s going to be quite a while before he arrives. Assuming he doesn’t get lost on the way.

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Yeah, the Wanamaker comparison maybe isn't quite fair, but at this point it's pretty clear to me that there are plenty of borderline rotation players floating around the G-League who can perform as well or better than Poole has for any stretch of games.

Poole is young and his game is definitely showing signs of improvement, but... so are lots of guys? I think even if they hadn't bothered to pick up his option we wouldn't have trouble re-signing him next year, unless he has an absolutely crazy break-out season.

So the calculus is, IF he has a really good season, AND it continues into next season, then the Warriors get to keep him. In the entirely likely situation that he doesn't, the team waives him or uses his contract as salary filler in a trade?

Whereas if they hadn't picked up his option, then it splits roughly three ways:

- Really good season, the Warriors probably lose him because they can only sign him to a minimum or MLE deal whereas other teams can sign him outright. This is what the FO is trying to avoid.

- Just OK season: the Warriors try to convince him to stay, offer him the minimum. If he gets a better deal or just wants to try his luck elsewhere, off he goes, but I don't think we feel too broken up about it.

- Bad season: Goodbye and good luck.

Basically, them picking up his option says either the team is very bullish on his chances to improve, or they aren't at all worried about the consequences of offloading him if he doesn't improve enough to be an NBA player.

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Dec 30, 2020Liked by punk basketball

I'm not getting my hopes up given his track record but JTA has made two threes in a row. Given that he can play PF and everything else he offers, he's a legit NBA player if he can hit that shot at like 33% imo.

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DLo and Edwards living out the stereotypes. Pouring in points, but respectively -8 and -18 in 14 and 10 min.

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That’s what I (pettily) like to hear

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Dec 30, 2020Liked by punk basketball

Wiseman is definitely a finesse player. His defense and rebounding leaves a lot to be desired, but his 2nd half was way better than the 2nd imo

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I agree, but Griffin's chin doesn't.

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Am I a bad person because I didn't feel bad for Griffin when he took that hit?

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No, this means Wiseman is a real Warrior

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Wiseman can play with finesse but I think we can unlock the play with force mode as the season goes on. Paschal and Draymond will teach him. Once his mind is wrapped around it, he will be able to dominate on both offense and defense.

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I think one of the knocks against him was he doesn't play up to his physical attributes. Could be wrong though

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He is 19 and bigs always take more time to develop.

IMO, he suffers from being so skilled, especially as a shooter. You know that cliche about a guard in a big man's body? JW epitomizes that in a negative way. He doesn't appear to know how to physically dominate despite having all of the tools to do so. I think he will learn quickly.

Also, after a solid year of working with a training staff and preparing for the NBA, he is much, much stronger than he has ever been. He has never played ball as a beast and he needs to learn when/how to use that strength in the NBA.

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Your 2nd 2nd is a 1st, and I agree

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I second this

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Dec 30, 2020Liked by punk basketball

Tonight was encouraging from a growth perspective. Much much better defensive cohesiveness, even if it wasn’t great on that front and even with the big assist from abysmal shooting by Detroit. Draymond should help a lot on that front. One more guy who knows what he’s doing and makes good defensive (and offensive) plays is just what the doctor ordered.

Lee impressed me by being positive even while missing shots, as he was bound to eventually start doing. Then he hit a key one late. He’s really breaking out and it’s beautiful to see. Paschall seems to be carving out a niche as a potential plus player at smallball 5, minutes we’ll really need this year. Curry is rediscovering how to dominate as a high usage guy without much help. Wiggins played well AND within the system. All in all a good night for the fellas.

There were some negatives as well. Wiseman is crashing down off his flaming hot start, which while unsurprising, puts us in a pickle at the 5. Good thing Paschall looks playable there. That said, the concerns I had a bout Wiseman when we drafted him were well on display tonight, and while that’s meaningless at this stage, it also puts the lie to the idea that his early play vindicates the pick. Time will tell.

Elsewhere in the arrow down department, Mulder looks like he’s good for one thing that he’s struggling to do under the bright lights of the NBA. Oubre is playing well in some ways and actually found Steph on a drive today but seems to have a snowballing confidence issue that he needs to get a handle on. And Poole still doesn’t look like an NBA player, and it’s getting more difficult to find the avenue where that changes.

The good news is that the minuses are mostly guys we can work around, so, as I said, good night.

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It seems to needed to watch Wiseman closer. He was getting fundamentals of rim protection down...and did good in the 2nd half.

He was +23 on the night also

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Maybe, and I genuinely hope I’m wrong about him. I can see what everyone sees, but other things are troubling to me. I’ve been wrong before about player development. I hope that’s true here as well

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I'd disagree a bit with the point on Mulder. So far, he's shooting 40% from three. He's always struggled at the free throw line according to his G League numbers.

I think the issue with Mulder so far is that he's not getting enough threes up to justify how small the Curry/Mulder backcourt is (Kerr has exclusively played Mulder with Curry). However, I looked into his G League numbers over the summer and he was mostly getting off the catch threes. So he's going to need someone to pass him the ball. But I want to see how it works with Draymond, who can theoretically get him the ball.

Or perhaps it doesn't work, and they start using Bazemore instead of Mulder there.

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That’s fair. I guess I was referring to his non-garbagetime minutes. But agreed that it’s probably too early to pull the plug

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I think what management should feel best about is Wiggins play. If they get that kind of performance out of him on a regular basis everybody will be talking about how they stole him from the T-wolves.

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I guess as the season progresses we'll find out how consistent Wiggins can be.

But I am not missing D'Angelo Russel, who led his team to a 20-point drubbing at the Clippers with -26 despite scoring 22 points. It's entirely possible that Wiggins remains a maddeningly inconsistent player on a negative-asset contract and we STILL got a steal from the T-Wolves because DAR is as bad or worse and at least we got a pick out of it.

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The problem is he used to have games like this with the wolves but the issue was consistency. Let's see if he can fix that

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Forgot to mention Wannamaker in the arrow up department. He played solidly on both ends behind Steph, and it was good.

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Yeah, I think this was his best game in a Warriors uniform yet.

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Still, they exercised the Poole option.

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I can’t validate this opinion at all but I’m glad they did. Poole is my boy.

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Yea. That’s the worst part about it, because more than anything, it makes me doubt the culture in the front office

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I dunno, it's a pretty meager investment, and it tells future players that working your butt off will buy you some leeway.

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I don’t doubt this FO much, but I wish we knew more about the plan for Poole and Smailagic.

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