Once again totally off topic, but since people seemed to like my whale footage from the other day, here was the highlight from our paddle boarding this morning; a spinner dolphin was swimming around us and made a couple close passes to say hello: https://youtu.be/a-0Ez8wxVgc
Tough loss, but that it was expected makes it a little easier. And thank goodness Draymond's injury was (apparently?) nothing. I was thinking him going down like that was nearly the worst case scenario.
This was Steph's quietest game in a while; even with him hitting a lot more of his shots and being more aggressive, it wouldn't win us the game but it wouldn't at least been close. The refs really robbed him of that early charge on Harden though.
Credit to Harden, his passing is really what won the Nets the game. Those endless backdoor cuts don't result in infinity points unless his passes are on time and they really were. I don't mind watching this version of him, actually.
Might help that the refs were not bailing anyone out with soft fouls. It sucked for our drives but at least the Nets didn't shoot a million FTs, either.
Kyrie also had a pretty good stretch where he made a bunch of really tough shots to keep us at arm's length. KD was the least in rhythm of the Nets big three; we defended him really well, especially in the 1st Q, but he swished some classic shots on us later. With only this version of KD the Nets might have been beatable.
JTA still played like a beast; Paschall rediscovered a bit of his swagger; Wiggins' shot selection was worryingly bad again but he did make them and he defended Harden pretty well. The other starters looked "just OK" in offense and sloppy on defense, specifically against back cuts as mentioned. Same for Bazemore.
Mulder had a rough game, missed some shot opportunities and didn't get much done on either end. Wanamaker doubly so, dribbled it into trouble habitually and no stand-out defensive play. Can't deny he's looking like the weakest link in the second unit right now.
I think the team does a little lesson on defending back cuts in their next practice, and aside from that we forget this game happened and move on.
Agreed re: Harden. He looks like a true playmaker. You could tell he was good enough to do it when D'Antoni had him at PG in the Nash role before they traded for CP3, and he looks amazing doing it now.
Of course I guess it helps when you have Kyrie and KD on your team...
Didn’t get to watch the game so thanks for the recap. Personally I wish Steph would’ve played better to keep it close. Wanamaker has been so bad lately, he would be my choice to cut and convert JTA. I don’t know that Mannion would be any worse than Wanamaker at point.
Hey, this is for anyone who's interested in Baby Dubs in the bubble, or maybe just hankering for a little morale boost.
Pretty nice bounce back game yesterday for Santa Cruz:
It was a back and forth game down to the final minute. I think there were over 20 lead changes, and it was a high scoring game for the G League. The Westchester Knicks had a 2-0 record coming in, Baby Dubs 0-2.
When the starters are together it's Nico at PG, Lin at SG and Poole playing wing. Nico is handling on about 60% of the plays with Lin getting some time in that role. Poole is mostly in the corner and coming off screens, and seems like a very willing passer and extra-passer despite not getting as many touches.
The roster is a little weird. In general the Baby Dubs look kind of like a Division III college team going up against large NBA summer league teams. A lot of the team looks like miniatures out there. The centers are big, but Jordan Poole is the second biggest wing on the team. They've got three guys they play (sometimes all at once) who are Nico's size. Seems to be a trend the past three games that teams try to overwhelm them physically, offensive rebounds, etc. It seemed Nico got picked on way less defensively than the other small guys.
That's a good question... he was definitely doing some PG duties all along, but he did seem even more in control in this game. I'm not sure whether that's because he actually took more possessions, or because he rarely if ever turned over the ball in this game when he was handling (2 of his 4 turnovers were teammates dropping a pass from him, one of them was dead center right to the guy and just bounced out of the other guy's hands, over his head and out of bounds.)
Lin was 7-9 from three with 29 points, so without him going off they might not win the game. On the other hand, Lin's 7 turnovers were mostly of his own making, weird passes thrown to the defender instead of the cutter, a ball taken into trouble bouncing off his own leg, that kind of thing. He looks kind of slow and wobbly when he's being pressured, and maybe also tired pretty quick? Hopefully he can adjust to what might be a different pace. He did get 9 assists with some good vision.
In contrast I'd say Mannion and Poole looked a lot more confident, up to speed and capable of playing under control out there today. Generally when one of those two guys had it, something good happened. Nico looks really comfortable handling. JP is beating guys to the basket on most of his drives. Looking for a downside there, JP still seems to be using maybe too much variety? He wants to be a very creative player, whereas Nico looks happy just doing fundamental things. Of course creative isn't a problem if it also works in the NBA.
Nico and Poole both shot 3-7 from three. Poole was also 5-8 on shots around the basket with no midranges and a ton of and-1s. He also drew fouls several times on his drives. Nico hit a couple nice looking midranges but was 5-13 on 2s. Most of Nico's threes were a couple feet beyond the line, one of Poole's was. Nico with a game high +17 in an 8 point win.
The last 2 minutes of the game took some clutch team shooting with Baby Dubs down 3. Lin hit a three off a screen, then around a screen and off the dribble Nico hits a three to put them up 2. Then a quick pass from Nico to Wesson (starting center) to Poole, and JP hits the dagger 3.
You switch the screens and basically deny the advantage of the screen in the first place, but theoretically give up mismatches. If the Nets had Deandre Jordan out there and tried switching on the Curry-Green high PnR, the Nets would be toast, but with DJ out, it forced the Nets in a smaller, better matchup against the Warriors.
You can beat it with more advanced motion-ball stuff still, but that requires IQ and passers we don't have anymore, imo.
They also don't have a big man who can punish a small player who switches onto him.
KD guarding Draymond is tough for the Warriors to overcome, because his long arms get in the way of Draymond's high post passing and he can blow up that Curry/Green pick and roll by switching (and he's always been very good at guarding Curry).
Nets are probably a bad matchup against the Warriors.
We really don't have scorers who can take advantage of the isos. Currently, pass, pass,passsimply bleeds clock until the ball ends up in the hands of someone who doesn't shoot well under pressure.
An interesting fact.......Wiggins has only 12 double doubles in his whole career. He has none this season, so far. Oubre has 3 and also more in his career than Wiggins.
With Klay back next season, I want Oubre starting. He gives the Warriors something no one else does. Energy and rebounds. His shooting is starting to come around and see upside to his play. While Wiggins has a game, it is a very quiet one. First 6 minutes, 0pts 0-2ft, 0assists/reb. He seems to find himself later in games, but not enough to get his game to the next level. I see no upside. WYSISYG. If the Dubs think that this is enough, we'll have a repeat of this iteration + Klay. Yes, it will be better than this one, but will it be enough?
I love a lot of what Wiggins has shown this year, defense foremost, but remain unpersuaded that he’s a core guy for a deep playoff run — a “16 game player” as Draymond puts it — which I think is your central premise here. The lack of elite rebounding and passing concern me (especially alongside Klay, who’s also a mediocre-to-poor rebounder and passer) as does the FT bricking and occasional “deer in the headlights” look.
I would not be looking to move him for just anyone, but (at the risk of reopening that can of worms) would absolutely do a Wiggins-for-Beal deal if somehow it could be swung with any of our assets outside of Big 3 and Wiseman. We saw last night how devastating having three elite shot creators is. Curry-Beal-Klay is not dissimilar from the Nets Big 3 in the devastation it could wreak. Wiggins in that kind of battle is a bit of a knife-to-a-gunfight deal.
If we could put together that big 3, I think keeping Oubre would be key in maintaining the youth, athleticism, length, and defensive versatility we lost with Wiggins. He has the ruggedness, size, and rebounding chops to slide to the 4 in playoff “death squad” looks which have always been our bread and butter. Curry-Beal-Klay-Oubre-Green would be an absolutely killer closing unit.
Aa side benefit: I think Beal and Oubre may be tight from their DC days together. BB sent KO a sweet twitter *billet doux* after his 40-point game a couple weeks ago.
That said... the premise that such a deal could be swung without Wiseman feels like a bit of pipedream, barring a stroke of good fortune like the Wolves pick conveying at #4 with Kuminga or Mobley on the board, or our own pick somehow striking lotto. Failing either of those, Wiseman feels like the key piece, in that a Beal deal feels realistic with him and unrealistic without him. Not sure I’d pull that trigger, but I don’t think I’m quite as averse to it as some here. Ask me again how I feel three months from now.
I know you’ve been imagining Beal as a Warrior for some time. Do you think Steph and Beal can play alongside each other or would it be another Monte and Steph situation where they’re too small to match up against bigger opposing backcourts?
I think they’d be a fine combo defensively — both hard-nosed and strong for their head-heights, likely defensively better than Kyrie + Harden, who no one has trouble seeing as title contenders. And we’d surround them DPOYmond and Klay, plus other defensive beasts (Oubre, Looney, JTA, maybe Wiseman, etc.)
I think Monta + Steph is a poor comp. Steph was a 170 lb. whelp back then, as opposed to the muscled 6 reb/game beast he is now; and Beal is a lot longer and stronger than Monta (plus a much better rebounder, and miles more efficient offensively, with an elite three ball as opposed to a below average one).
A step below optimal, size-wise, but I don’t see how it isn’t a big step up from Wiggins, much as I like a lot of what Wiggins brings. Question for me is really what else we’d have to give up.
Not every acquisition can be as flawless and seamless as KD 2016. Almost all players not named KD, LeBron, or Kawhi have warts. If we pass on Beal, what other realistic “Wiggins upgrades” are out there?
The question for me is whether he’s defensively incapable due to lack of athleticism, awareness, or length (like DLo or Monta) or just unmotivated due to his losing team and exhausted from having to carry everyone offensively. My sense is it’s more the latter — that he’s much closer to a Harden than a Monta — but I could be wrong...
I don't think the pairing is comparable to Monte and Steph. Very different players. Steph and Beal are at their peaks NOW. Monte never was at this level and Steph was still developing but showed the promise of what he would become. Even if Beal and Steph can't play together, Beal is an asset that doesn't come along very often. There could be an even better deal for the Warriors waiting to happen if they could trade out of Wiggins for Beal. Just like getting DLO turned into getting Wiggins, a better fit for the team. Kelly is a guy with a future, I believe. I hope we can keep him.
BTW, have you ever run into my old friend Mo'o who lives in Kula? He also likes to swim with the whales and dolphins. Older dude.
If he hangs out in Makena, I might recognize him, but can’t say I know him. There’s a lot of beaches in Makena, so it’s kind of a needle in a haystack.
I wouldn't want to be Lacob and miss many nights of sleep trying to decide if he would pull the trigger on a deal like that. My gut feeling is no because we don't need another 30ppg player and not have the supporting cast to pull off a championship. The reason I am behind a Wiggins trade is the assets that he could bring back to us and still not bury the team in debt that would hamstring its future. But we still would not match the Warriors iteration of KD, Splash Bros, + Dray with Splash Bros, Beal, + Dray. KD is a generational player, not just a scorer. Plus, the Nets have good support players. Whether they can get it together to take out their competition and get a ring remains to be seen. They have some pretty tough teams in front of them. Next season's draft will hold a big key to the future.
We have no idea if the team is remotely at risk of being “buried in debt.” But given the franchise value had increased tenfold from $500M ten years ago to $5B today, I’m not too concerned about their finances.
Are you really suggested trading Wiggins for salary relief? What “assets” do you realistically think we could get in a Wiggins salary dump? Give me a specific trade proposal; I have a hard time understanding what you’re saying without that.
Actually, I just looked up Beal's contract and he is making less than Wiggins! I'm not saying that the Wiz would make a trade, but if Beal is a target, Wiggins + something could do it. I was under the impression that Beal was a max player. Wiggins will make up to $33M in the next 2 years. Theoretically, he could bring 2 Kelly Oubres to the Warriors. If they identify players at an earlier stage of their career that they want, imagine the boost we would get from a Wiggins trade. They don't pay me to do their homework and I have a lot of other things I am more interested in than guessing games.
I wrote something similar about choosing Oubre or wiggins in my comment below but I rewrote it because I'm not sure if I'd go that far just yet. But I 100% agree on wiggins being quiet. Even when he has a good game it feels like a majority of it came from a couple minutes burst. We need consistency throughout the game
Klay is the biggest question going forward, what to do with Wiseman/Minnesota pick is #2, but Wiggins vs Oubre is probably the third.
Ideally they could keep Wiggins and re-sign Oubre, but I'm guessing Oubre would only re-sign for a starting role. Keep Wiggins and let Oubre go is the easiest scenario, but if Wiggins can rehabilitate his contract value up to "slight negative", they could probably go the other way without too much trouble I'd think.
Oubre is looking more comfortable with Warriors ball and I love the energy and intensity he brings. I think if anyone can convince him that a sixth man role isn’t a bad thing, it’s Kerr. I mean, Iguodala did it. The $$$ may be what’s less negotiable.
Probably been mentioned, but: does anyone else think the presence of DeAndre Jordan in this game might have helped us a lot? Would have given us an early target to exploit on basic P&Rs and potentially gotten Steph and the offense flowing early. His absence forced them into switch everything smallball look that totally flummoxed us early and allowed them to take control of the game.
Meanwhile, on O: his presence clogging up the paint (with Draymond guarding him and cleverly cheating off) might have slightly mitigated the endless parade of backcuts. Plus he would have been good for at least a couple of bricked FTs, which are in short supply from the rest of their team.
Let’s be realistic — no one is banging down our door for Grandpa Wanamaker without a serious sweetener of some kind. But I’d rather just bench him or waive him and eat his contract than give up even a minor asset to move him. He’s on a modest expiring contract that would not be hard to swallow.
Yeah, Im just trying to figure out why the Ws keep giving him 15-20 min per game.
I guess between Wanamaker, Poole, and Nico, Wanamaker is the least mistake prone of the group, and Kerr being a head coach, naturally likes the conservative pick.
But Brad also seems like the least talented shot creator of that group. Poole and Mannion have at least shown ability to drive to the rim and threaten the defense. Poole, despite his erratic 3pt shot, has done well getting inside and finishing/getting fouled, Poole has a .598 TS% in his 15 games this season. Then Mannion seems to have the best vision and passing of the group.
If Brad was 6'5" or more and rebounded well he could be a useful defensive wing piece, but he's small so even his lone strength in defense is limited.
Add to all that, the Warriors are not a true title threat without Klay, and the the bench is back to looking rubbish. So why prioritize the 31yo vet over our young guys in Poole and Nico? If this were 2019 and the Ws were going for 3 straight, yeah, go with the less mistake prone vet, but now....
Agreed. I also don’t see Wanamaker as a model of BBIQ, unless we think ignoring open shooters to drive into traffic and throw up a prayer or get the ball stripped is the good, solid basketball play.
This is the main question to me... if it's even close to a wash, what are they doing playing a 31yo with no bird rights over Poole and Mannion, who both are fundamentally in the position of "how fast would they improve and hang in the NBA if they got to play some games?" It's going to be impossible to give both Poole and Mannion playing time NEXT YEAR, so they're putting themselves in a position where they're saying goodbye to one of those guys without ever giving them a shot in a season where most games are actually winnable, with Steph and Dray on the court.
I guess this applies more to Poole than Mannion, since Nico is just 19 years old and small and you may not want to throw him out there outside garbage time until he's gotten some experience in limited minutes and time working with trainers and whatnot.
I’m not giving up on him yet, though. I know he’s a better player (and shooter) than what he’s showing after watching him last season and post-season in da bubble.
Worth a tinker when he gets back I guess. I'm not convinced he'd be any better... especially as the guy to get the offense going and the ball moving around. Poole feels like he'd fit the Baze role better...
NO. Keep him in the gleague and let him get his minutes that way. He needs to learn and sharpen his game. There is no rearranging any of the players to make this team able to beat the better teams. I understand the sentiment but we simply don't have the talent to move to the next level.
Your post is a series of sentences that do not follow logically. Nothing you wrote supports the premise that Poole should not be getting Wanamaker’s minutes.
They sent him to the Gleague to develop him by getting him minutes. Bobbita’s proposal was to develop him by giving him Wanamaker’s NBA minutes.
The facts that “there is no rearranging any of the players to make this team able to beat the better teams” and “we simply don’t have the talent to move to the next level,” while probably true, are not really relevant to Bobbita’s proposal.
To me, they must feel that Wanamaker is more developed to play with the current team. Poole would be a future possibility, not yet ready to play on the bench.
Warriors got beat by a better team, we knew that in order to have a chance against this caliber of roster, Dubs have to have lots going right - and it just wasn't the case.
My priority of concerns:
1) Dray going down on a non contact injury and grabbing at his knee like that was a major red flag. Was pretty shocked to see him come back out.
2) our franchise needs to start intentionally chasing shooters. Idk what our teams percentage was on open looks, but it seems silly that we spend so much energy looking for good shots, but can't put shooters on the court to take advantage.
3) Wanamaker looks so bad when his shot isnt falling. I really don't understand why Poole is in the G league. Let him or Baze have a go at backup PG
4) I think Oubre is starting to see where he can help. Tough situation here though because the better he plays, the harder it will be to retain him
Poole is not going to be the difference in winning for this team. Wanamaker and Poole are just bodies to fill out a roster. Poole has more of a chance of improving and making the roster but he is not an important piece and neither is Bazemore. Just bodies, some are better than others. DLee needs more minutes. Both he and Juan are making some statements. Other than Paschall, the rest are just roster fills.
Lin didn't look very good in the 1/2 of the G-league game I saw. Among other things, t doesn't look like he is really in playing shape right now and seemed to get gassed.
Nobody on Santa Cruz looked good in that half. I turned it off. Nico and Poole should have dominated if they are going to be anything in the NBA. Neither came close.
As far as backup guard duties, Wanamaker is pretty ok with moving the ball around and good enough on defense. Only problem is he's not finishing and hitting his shots coupled with some questionable plays sometimes. Kind of frustrating because he's making rookie decisions. Don't think we'll see anything better from Poole or Bazemore there. My hope is Nico comes back a new man and can take over that spot eventually.
I'm hoping Nico keeps improving. I feel he's our only hope to fill Wanamaker's role with our current pieces... Poole has more of a score-first mentality so he'd be more of a replacement for Baze/Mulder if anything.
My understanding is dubs do have Oubres bird rights so it’s a matter of paying the tax. And if they done want Oubre, they may need to trade him this year or sign and trade since they are so far over cap they can’t sign a free agent, or pick up more salary in a trade. So in a strange way, his salary is an asset to the dubs. Personally I hope he keeps getting better and they keep him. I like watching him on the floor and feel like he would be even better when chase gets rocking. If he does stay, I think he’s could be a great sixth man and small ball closer (acknowledge he may think differently)
Ugh my comment was wiped cause my page refreshed as I was typing it so I'm just going to say the main points
1. Most annoying loss of the season
2. Oubre has been impressing me every game. Related, Wiggins and his 3 point shots are trending in opposite directions which would align with their careers.
3. Only positive is paschall may have gotten back on track. I miss looking at the positive of Wisemans development in these losses. I'm still holding out hope that he can be serviceable by playoff time
He’s improving, but still much too much of a driver of wins and losses. I’m hoping for quality play and a trade, or massive continued improvement where his down games don’t negate Steph going off and make Wiseman unplayable with him.
I think aside from Paschall, he is the one who can consistently get a good shot. Wiggins is a lot of deep mid ranges. Oubre is either a 3, a short pull up, or a layup. Unfortunately a lot of his layups are highly contested though.
He really should be taking a page out of Oubre's playbook and convert those to Oubre's short pullups... feels like he has enough quickness, length, and strength to get in the lane more often as well.
In case people want to keep track:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/players/justinian-jessup-1.html
I've already got Jessup penciled in as the #3 SG for the 21-22 Warriors. I just don't know who #2 will be if they don't re-sign Oubre.
Lee
Once again totally off topic, but since people seemed to like my whale footage from the other day, here was the highlight from our paddle boarding this morning; a spinner dolphin was swimming around us and made a couple close passes to say hello: https://youtu.be/a-0Ez8wxVgc
Dude, I’m sooo jealous! We’re headed there in April to socially distance visit with the ohana and spend all day at the beaches.
April will be here before you know it!. Did you see the two whale videos I shared here yesterday?
No, I’ll go look for it
https://youtu.be/wFtk6YpTYj4
https://youtu.be/8HsKg9xduYY
Awesome! They’ll be gone by April though...crying
Tough loss, but that it was expected makes it a little easier. And thank goodness Draymond's injury was (apparently?) nothing. I was thinking him going down like that was nearly the worst case scenario.
This was Steph's quietest game in a while; even with him hitting a lot more of his shots and being more aggressive, it wouldn't win us the game but it wouldn't at least been close. The refs really robbed him of that early charge on Harden though.
Credit to Harden, his passing is really what won the Nets the game. Those endless backdoor cuts don't result in infinity points unless his passes are on time and they really were. I don't mind watching this version of him, actually.
Might help that the refs were not bailing anyone out with soft fouls. It sucked for our drives but at least the Nets didn't shoot a million FTs, either.
Kyrie also had a pretty good stretch where he made a bunch of really tough shots to keep us at arm's length. KD was the least in rhythm of the Nets big three; we defended him really well, especially in the 1st Q, but he swished some classic shots on us later. With only this version of KD the Nets might have been beatable.
JTA still played like a beast; Paschall rediscovered a bit of his swagger; Wiggins' shot selection was worryingly bad again but he did make them and he defended Harden pretty well. The other starters looked "just OK" in offense and sloppy on defense, specifically against back cuts as mentioned. Same for Bazemore.
Mulder had a rough game, missed some shot opportunities and didn't get much done on either end. Wanamaker doubly so, dribbled it into trouble habitually and no stand-out defensive play. Can't deny he's looking like the weakest link in the second unit right now.
I think the team does a little lesson on defending back cuts in their next practice, and aside from that we forget this game happened and move on.
Agreed re: Harden. He looks like a true playmaker. You could tell he was good enough to do it when D'Antoni had him at PG in the Nash role before they traded for CP3, and he looks amazing doing it now.
Of course I guess it helps when you have Kyrie and KD on your team...
Didn’t get to watch the game so thanks for the recap. Personally I wish Steph would’ve played better to keep it close. Wanamaker has been so bad lately, he would be my choice to cut and convert JTA. I don’t know that Mannion would be any worse than Wanamaker at point.
Hey, this is for anyone who's interested in Baby Dubs in the bubble, or maybe just hankering for a little morale boost.
Pretty nice bounce back game yesterday for Santa Cruz:
It was a back and forth game down to the final minute. I think there were over 20 lead changes, and it was a high scoring game for the G League. The Westchester Knicks had a 2-0 record coming in, Baby Dubs 0-2.
When the starters are together it's Nico at PG, Lin at SG and Poole playing wing. Nico is handling on about 60% of the plays with Lin getting some time in that role. Poole is mostly in the corner and coming off screens, and seems like a very willing passer and extra-passer despite not getting as many touches.
The roster is a little weird. In general the Baby Dubs look kind of like a Division III college team going up against large NBA summer league teams. A lot of the team looks like miniatures out there. The centers are big, but Jordan Poole is the second biggest wing on the team. They've got three guys they play (sometimes all at once) who are Nico's size. Seems to be a trend the past three games that teams try to overwhelm them physically, offensive rebounds, etc. It seemed Nico got picked on way less defensively than the other small guys.
> Nico is handling on about 60% of the plays with Lin getting some time in that role. Poole is mostly in the corner and coming off screens
Do you know if that was the case in the prior two games as well? Or an adjustment they made for the third game?
That's a good question... he was definitely doing some PG duties all along, but he did seem even more in control in this game. I'm not sure whether that's because he actually took more possessions, or because he rarely if ever turned over the ball in this game when he was handling (2 of his 4 turnovers were teammates dropping a pass from him, one of them was dead center right to the guy and just bounced out of the other guy's hands, over his head and out of bounds.)
Lin was 7-9 from three with 29 points, so without him going off they might not win the game. On the other hand, Lin's 7 turnovers were mostly of his own making, weird passes thrown to the defender instead of the cutter, a ball taken into trouble bouncing off his own leg, that kind of thing. He looks kind of slow and wobbly when he's being pressured, and maybe also tired pretty quick? Hopefully he can adjust to what might be a different pace. He did get 9 assists with some good vision.
In contrast I'd say Mannion and Poole looked a lot more confident, up to speed and capable of playing under control out there today. Generally when one of those two guys had it, something good happened. Nico looks really comfortable handling. JP is beating guys to the basket on most of his drives. Looking for a downside there, JP still seems to be using maybe too much variety? He wants to be a very creative player, whereas Nico looks happy just doing fundamental things. Of course creative isn't a problem if it also works in the NBA.
Nico and Poole both shot 3-7 from three. Poole was also 5-8 on shots around the basket with no midranges and a ton of and-1s. He also drew fouls several times on his drives. Nico hit a couple nice looking midranges but was 5-13 on 2s. Most of Nico's threes were a couple feet beyond the line, one of Poole's was. Nico with a game high +17 in an 8 point win.
The last 2 minutes of the game took some clutch team shooting with Baby Dubs down 3. Lin hit a three off a screen, then around a screen and off the dribble Nico hits a three to put them up 2. Then a quick pass from Nico to Wesson (starting center) to Poole, and JP hits the dagger 3.
Why the Kerr's offense founder against aggressive switching?
Sorry. Typo. Should have asked why Kerr's offense stagnates in the face of aggressive switching. Open shots that arise are missed too frequently.
Basically the switching invites iso play.
You switch the screens and basically deny the advantage of the screen in the first place, but theoretically give up mismatches. If the Nets had Deandre Jordan out there and tried switching on the Curry-Green high PnR, the Nets would be toast, but with DJ out, it forced the Nets in a smaller, better matchup against the Warriors.
You can beat it with more advanced motion-ball stuff still, but that requires IQ and passers we don't have anymore, imo.
They also don't have a big man who can punish a small player who switches onto him.
KD guarding Draymond is tough for the Warriors to overcome, because his long arms get in the way of Draymond's high post passing and he can blow up that Curry/Green pick and roll by switching (and he's always been very good at guarding Curry).
Nets are probably a bad matchup against the Warriors.
We really don't have scorers who can take advantage of the isos. Currently, pass, pass,passsimply bleeds clock until the ball ends up in the hands of someone who doesn't shoot well under pressure.
An interesting fact.......Wiggins has only 12 double doubles in his whole career. He has none this season, so far. Oubre has 3 and also more in his career than Wiggins.
With Klay back next season, I want Oubre starting. He gives the Warriors something no one else does. Energy and rebounds. His shooting is starting to come around and see upside to his play. While Wiggins has a game, it is a very quiet one. First 6 minutes, 0pts 0-2ft, 0assists/reb. He seems to find himself later in games, but not enough to get his game to the next level. I see no upside. WYSISYG. If the Dubs think that this is enough, we'll have a repeat of this iteration + Klay. Yes, it will be better than this one, but will it be enough?
I love a lot of what Wiggins has shown this year, defense foremost, but remain unpersuaded that he’s a core guy for a deep playoff run — a “16 game player” as Draymond puts it — which I think is your central premise here. The lack of elite rebounding and passing concern me (especially alongside Klay, who’s also a mediocre-to-poor rebounder and passer) as does the FT bricking and occasional “deer in the headlights” look.
I would not be looking to move him for just anyone, but (at the risk of reopening that can of worms) would absolutely do a Wiggins-for-Beal deal if somehow it could be swung with any of our assets outside of Big 3 and Wiseman. We saw last night how devastating having three elite shot creators is. Curry-Beal-Klay is not dissimilar from the Nets Big 3 in the devastation it could wreak. Wiggins in that kind of battle is a bit of a knife-to-a-gunfight deal.
If we could put together that big 3, I think keeping Oubre would be key in maintaining the youth, athleticism, length, and defensive versatility we lost with Wiggins. He has the ruggedness, size, and rebounding chops to slide to the 4 in playoff “death squad” looks which have always been our bread and butter. Curry-Beal-Klay-Oubre-Green would be an absolutely killer closing unit.
Aa side benefit: I think Beal and Oubre may be tight from their DC days together. BB sent KO a sweet twitter *billet doux* after his 40-point game a couple weeks ago.
That said... the premise that such a deal could be swung without Wiseman feels like a bit of pipedream, barring a stroke of good fortune like the Wolves pick conveying at #4 with Kuminga or Mobley on the board, or our own pick somehow striking lotto. Failing either of those, Wiseman feels like the key piece, in that a Beal deal feels realistic with him and unrealistic without him. Not sure I’d pull that trigger, but I don’t think I’m quite as averse to it as some here. Ask me again how I feel three months from now.
I know you’ve been imagining Beal as a Warrior for some time. Do you think Steph and Beal can play alongside each other or would it be another Monte and Steph situation where they’re too small to match up against bigger opposing backcourts?
I think they’d be a fine combo defensively — both hard-nosed and strong for their head-heights, likely defensively better than Kyrie + Harden, who no one has trouble seeing as title contenders. And we’d surround them DPOYmond and Klay, plus other defensive beasts (Oubre, Looney, JTA, maybe Wiseman, etc.)
I think Monta + Steph is a poor comp. Steph was a 170 lb. whelp back then, as opposed to the muscled 6 reb/game beast he is now; and Beal is a lot longer and stronger than Monta (plus a much better rebounder, and miles more efficient offensively, with an elite three ball as opposed to a below average one).
A step below optimal, size-wise, but I don’t see how it isn’t a big step up from Wiggins, much as I like a lot of what Wiggins brings. Question for me is really what else we’d have to give up.
Not every acquisition can be as flawless and seamless as KD 2016. Almost all players not named KD, LeBron, or Kawhi have warts. If we pass on Beal, what other realistic “Wiggins upgrades” are out there?
Beal isn’t playing D at all these days so who knows what he’s actually capable of. 3rd worst defender in the entire league coming into the week?
Yikes.
The question for me is whether he’s defensively incapable due to lack of athleticism, awareness, or length (like DLo or Monta) or just unmotivated due to his losing team and exhausted from having to carry everyone offensively. My sense is it’s more the latter — that he’s much closer to a Harden than a Monta — but I could be wrong...
I don't think the pairing is comparable to Monte and Steph. Very different players. Steph and Beal are at their peaks NOW. Monte never was at this level and Steph was still developing but showed the promise of what he would become. Even if Beal and Steph can't play together, Beal is an asset that doesn't come along very often. There could be an even better deal for the Warriors waiting to happen if they could trade out of Wiggins for Beal. Just like getting DLO turned into getting Wiggins, a better fit for the team. Kelly is a guy with a future, I believe. I hope we can keep him.
BTW, have you ever run into my old friend Mo'o who lives in Kula? He also likes to swim with the whales and dolphins. Older dude.
This is why I still like the idea of Lonzo; he could play alongside Steph and/or Klay.
I don’t think I’ve met your friend. If he lives in Kula, he probably spends more time on the North Shore as it’s a lot closer.
He swims in McKenna
If he hangs out in Makena, I might recognize him, but can’t say I know him. There’s a lot of beaches in Makena, so it’s kind of a needle in a haystack.
Lonzo in a Wiggins trade? How would you see it being done? Wiggins makes much more than Lonzo. Who else would be included? Zion?🙏
Beal is the same functional size as Ball, I think. Shorter head-height, but the same wingspan, and beastly strong.
Ball has always struck me as a more willing (and better) defender...and obviously a better distributor.
I wouldn't want to be Lacob and miss many nights of sleep trying to decide if he would pull the trigger on a deal like that. My gut feeling is no because we don't need another 30ppg player and not have the supporting cast to pull off a championship. The reason I am behind a Wiggins trade is the assets that he could bring back to us and still not bury the team in debt that would hamstring its future. But we still would not match the Warriors iteration of KD, Splash Bros, + Dray with Splash Bros, Beal, + Dray. KD is a generational player, not just a scorer. Plus, the Nets have good support players. Whether they can get it together to take out their competition and get a ring remains to be seen. They have some pretty tough teams in front of them. Next season's draft will hold a big key to the future.
We have no idea if the team is remotely at risk of being “buried in debt.” But given the franchise value had increased tenfold from $500M ten years ago to $5B today, I’m not too concerned about their finances.
Are you really suggested trading Wiggins for salary relief? What “assets” do you realistically think we could get in a Wiggins salary dump? Give me a specific trade proposal; I have a hard time understanding what you’re saying without that.
Passed the lakers
Actually, I just looked up Beal's contract and he is making less than Wiggins! I'm not saying that the Wiz would make a trade, but if Beal is a target, Wiggins + something could do it. I was under the impression that Beal was a max player. Wiggins will make up to $33M in the next 2 years. Theoretically, he could bring 2 Kelly Oubres to the Warriors. If they identify players at an earlier stage of their career that they want, imagine the boost we would get from a Wiggins trade. They don't pay me to do their homework and I have a lot of other things I am more interested in than guessing games.
I wrote something similar about choosing Oubre or wiggins in my comment below but I rewrote it because I'm not sure if I'd go that far just yet. But I 100% agree on wiggins being quiet. Even when he has a good game it feels like a majority of it came from a couple minutes burst. We need consistency throughout the game
Klay is the biggest question going forward, what to do with Wiseman/Minnesota pick is #2, but Wiggins vs Oubre is probably the third.
Ideally they could keep Wiggins and re-sign Oubre, but I'm guessing Oubre would only re-sign for a starting role. Keep Wiggins and let Oubre go is the easiest scenario, but if Wiggins can rehabilitate his contract value up to "slight negative", they could probably go the other way without too much trouble I'd think.
Oubre is looking more comfortable with Warriors ball and I love the energy and intensity he brings. I think if anyone can convince him that a sixth man role isn’t a bad thing, it’s Kerr. I mean, Iguodala did it. The $$$ may be what’s less negotiable.
Would be interesting to research how many Wiggins points come when the game isn't on the line.
Isn’t it ironic. Looking for consistency and choosing Oubre over Wiggins.
Consistency is only one criteria. It's a good one, but no upside. Oubre's upside is big! Plus, he has skills Wiggins doesn't.
Probably been mentioned, but: does anyone else think the presence of DeAndre Jordan in this game might have helped us a lot? Would have given us an early target to exploit on basic P&Rs and potentially gotten Steph and the offense flowing early. His absence forced them into switch everything smallball look that totally flummoxed us early and allowed them to take control of the game.
Meanwhile, on O: his presence clogging up the paint (with Draymond guarding him and cleverly cheating off) might have slightly mitigated the endless parade of backcuts. Plus he would have been good for at least a couple of bricked FTs, which are in short supply from the rest of their team.
I think the presence of Aldridge would have helped them a lot against the Spurs too lol.
As I said when the news broke, I don’t think he would have played much against us anyway.
Probably true. But even a few minutes to start each half could have gotten the Steph monster rolling.
> does anyone else think the presence of DeAndre Jordan in this game might have helped us a lot
Yes. It was my first thought when I saw that he was out.
it would have been fun watching Curry spin him around like Gobert
Does anyone think we should give Wanamakers minutes to Poole?
He should be tearing up the G league, but not even close.
Poole's had a .598 TS while playing with us
Only reason I'd have to keep playing Wanamakem right now is to dangle him at the deadline.
Dangle him for what? Is he desirable to other teams?
Even like a 2nd round pick, anything besides just waiving him at deadline, basically.
Let’s be realistic — no one is banging down our door for Grandpa Wanamaker without a serious sweetener of some kind. But I’d rather just bench him or waive him and eat his contract than give up even a minor asset to move him. He’s on a modest expiring contract that would not be hard to swallow.
Yeah, Im just trying to figure out why the Ws keep giving him 15-20 min per game.
I guess between Wanamaker, Poole, and Nico, Wanamaker is the least mistake prone of the group, and Kerr being a head coach, naturally likes the conservative pick.
But Brad also seems like the least talented shot creator of that group. Poole and Mannion have at least shown ability to drive to the rim and threaten the defense. Poole, despite his erratic 3pt shot, has done well getting inside and finishing/getting fouled, Poole has a .598 TS% in his 15 games this season. Then Mannion seems to have the best vision and passing of the group.
If Brad was 6'5" or more and rebounded well he could be a useful defensive wing piece, but he's small so even his lone strength in defense is limited.
Add to all that, the Warriors are not a true title threat without Klay, and the the bench is back to looking rubbish. So why prioritize the 31yo vet over our young guys in Poole and Nico? If this were 2019 and the Ws were going for 3 straight, yeah, go with the less mistake prone vet, but now....
Agreed. I also don’t see Wanamaker as a model of BBIQ, unless we think ignoring open shooters to drive into traffic and throw up a prayer or get the ball stripped is the good, solid basketball play.
This is the main question to me... if it's even close to a wash, what are they doing playing a 31yo with no bird rights over Poole and Mannion, who both are fundamentally in the position of "how fast would they improve and hang in the NBA if they got to play some games?" It's going to be impossible to give both Poole and Mannion playing time NEXT YEAR, so they're putting themselves in a position where they're saying goodbye to one of those guys without ever giving them a shot in a season where most games are actually winnable, with Steph and Dray on the court.
I guess this applies more to Poole than Mannion, since Nico is just 19 years old and small and you may not want to throw him out there outside garbage time until he's gotten some experience in limited minutes and time working with trainers and whatnot.
Waiving him would make a roster spot for JTA.
I’m not giving up on him yet, though. I know he’s a better player (and shooter) than what he’s showing after watching him last season and post-season in da bubble.
Keep waiting for that guy to show up.. I'm confident he will
I been saying this for weeks
Worth a tinker when he gets back I guess. I'm not convinced he'd be any better... especially as the guy to get the offense going and the ball moving around. Poole feels like he'd fit the Baze role better...
NO. Keep him in the gleague and let him get his minutes that way. He needs to learn and sharpen his game. There is no rearranging any of the players to make this team able to beat the better teams. I understand the sentiment but we simply don't have the talent to move to the next level.
Your post is a series of sentences that do not follow logically. Nothing you wrote supports the premise that Poole should not be getting Wanamaker’s minutes.
then why did the team send him to the gleague? Isn't the gleague someplace that he can improve his game? What is not logical?
They sent him to the Gleague to develop him by getting him minutes. Bobbita’s proposal was to develop him by giving him Wanamaker’s NBA minutes.
The facts that “there is no rearranging any of the players to make this team able to beat the better teams” and “we simply don’t have the talent to move to the next level,” while probably true, are not really relevant to Bobbita’s proposal.
...
A “logical”rebuttal to Bobbita’s proposal would need to defend the value of continuing to give 15-20 mpg to Brad Wanamaker.
To me, they must feel that Wanamaker is more developed to play with the current team. Poole would be a future possibility, not yet ready to play on the bench.
If you feel that way, then wouldn't it make even more sense to get him minutes with the team
Absolutely. Most of em, anyway.
I will say watching JTA win the jump against KD got me thinking, we can do this! That lasted a quarter or so...
Ok, so as expected, big oof.
Warriors got beat by a better team, we knew that in order to have a chance against this caliber of roster, Dubs have to have lots going right - and it just wasn't the case.
My priority of concerns:
1) Dray going down on a non contact injury and grabbing at his knee like that was a major red flag. Was pretty shocked to see him come back out.
2) our franchise needs to start intentionally chasing shooters. Idk what our teams percentage was on open looks, but it seems silly that we spend so much energy looking for good shots, but can't put shooters on the court to take advantage.
3) Wanamaker looks so bad when his shot isnt falling. I really don't understand why Poole is in the G league. Let him or Baze have a go at backup PG
4) I think Oubre is starting to see where he can help. Tough situation here though because the better he plays, the harder it will be to retain him
Poole is not going to be the difference in winning for this team. Wanamaker and Poole are just bodies to fill out a roster. Poole has more of a chance of improving and making the roster but he is not an important piece and neither is Bazemore. Just bodies, some are better than others. DLee needs more minutes. Both he and Juan are making some statements. Other than Paschall, the rest are just roster fills.
Jeremy Lin is available. Probably higher bball IQ than what we’ve seen from Wannamaker. Something the team desperately needs.
And I just watched the highlights of his most recent game, and while he did make 7 of 9 3pt shots, none of them appeared to be contested.
Lin didn't look very good in the 1/2 of the G-league game I saw. Among other things, t doesn't look like he is really in playing shape right now and seemed to get gassed.
Nobody on Santa Cruz looked good in that half. I turned it off. Nico and Poole should have dominated if they are going to be anything in the NBA. Neither came close.
True dat.
As far as backup guard duties, Wanamaker is pretty ok with moving the ball around and good enough on defense. Only problem is he's not finishing and hitting his shots coupled with some questionable plays sometimes. Kind of frustrating because he's making rookie decisions. Don't think we'll see anything better from Poole or Bazemore there. My hope is Nico comes back a new man and can take over that spot eventually.
I'm hoping Nico keeps improving. I feel he's our only hope to fill Wanamaker's role with our current pieces... Poole has more of a score-first mentality so he'd be more of a replacement for Baze/Mulder if anything.
'new man' is the ticket. Not till next season.
Yes, 2.7 AST with 3.3 TO per game over three games. Not a good sign if we want him doing PG duties so hopefully he cleans that up.
My understanding is dubs do have Oubres bird rights so it’s a matter of paying the tax. And if they done want Oubre, they may need to trade him this year or sign and trade since they are so far over cap they can’t sign a free agent, or pick up more salary in a trade. So in a strange way, his salary is an asset to the dubs. Personally I hope he keeps getting better and they keep him. I like watching him on the floor and feel like he would be even better when chase gets rocking. If he does stay, I think he’s could be a great sixth man and small ball closer (acknowledge he may think differently)
Better yet, wait till fans are allowed in the stadium, then pull this fake cast stunt, lol
Ugh my comment was wiped cause my page refreshed as I was typing it so I'm just going to say the main points
1. Most annoying loss of the season
2. Oubre has been impressing me every game. Related, Wiggins and his 3 point shots are trending in opposite directions which would align with their careers.
3. Only positive is paschall may have gotten back on track. I miss looking at the positive of Wisemans development in these losses. I'm still holding out hope that he can be serviceable by playoff time
I'd like to know if people still believe Oubre is a "bad fit" for the Warriors.
He’s improving, but still much too much of a driver of wins and losses. I’m hoping for quality play and a trade, or massive continued improvement where his down games don’t negate Steph going off and make Wiseman unplayable with him.
He had a great pass to steph today from the top of the key
I said in the game thread, plays like that will make me a believer, but I’m not quite there.
Lol ever done the one where you press the cancel button instead of the post button? Heart wrenching
Worse is when I hit Post instead of Cancel. Then I end up posting something unfinished or that I don’t want everyone to
I know! I keep accidentally posting dick pics. I’m glad there’s a delete button.
Ha
Lol haven't done that yet thankfully
Notable stats:
Nets:
Brown: (+4)
18 points 8/12 FGs 2/3 FTs
7 rebounds (4 off.) 1 assist
Harden: (+28)
19 points 6/11 FGs 5/8 three pointers 2/2 FTs
8 rebounds 16 assists 5 turnovers 3 steals 1 block
Irving: (+22)
23 points 10/17 FGs 2/5 three pointers 1/1 FT
8 rebounds 16 assists 5 turnovers 3 steals 1 block
Durant: (+22)
20 points 8/19 FGs 1/6 three pointers 3/4 FTs
5 reounds 6 assists 4 turnovers 2 blocks
Harris: (+12)
15 points 5/9 FGs 3/6 three pointers 2/2 FTs
4 rebounds 2 steals 1 block
Jeff Green: (+10)
14 points 5/6 FGs 1/1 three pointer 3/3 FTs
6 rebounds (2 off.) 2 assists 1 steal
Warriors:
Curry: (-26)
27 points 10/17 FGs 2/9 three pointers 5/5 FTs
3 rebounds 5 assists 4 turnovers
Oubre: (-22)
17 points 6/15 FGs 1/5 three pointers 4/4 FTs
10 rebounds (3 off.) 2 assists 1 turnover 1 steal 1 lock
Paschall: (+7)
16 points 7/10 FGs 2/2 FTs
4 rebounds 2 turnovers
Bazemore: (+12)
11 points 4/6 FGs 2/2 three pointers 1/2 FTs
3 rebounds 1 turnover 1 steal 2 blocks
Wiggins: (-13)
17 points 7/15 FGs 1/6 three pointers 2/4 FTs
3 rebounds 2 assists 1 turnover 2 steals 2 blocks
Oubre with three straight double-doubles
I think aside from Paschall, he is the one who can consistently get a good shot. Wiggins is a lot of deep mid ranges. Oubre is either a 3, a short pull up, or a layup. Unfortunately a lot of his layups are highly contested though.
And a lot of his layups are modern-day Klay-ups
> Wiggins is a lot of deep mid ranges.
He really should be taking a page out of Oubre's playbook and convert those to Oubre's short pullups... feels like he has enough quickness, length, and strength to get in the lane more often as well.
He should watch a lot of Spurs film. He'd thrive doing a De Rozen imitation. Mid-range robot. Gotta shoot FT's better tho.
Wiggins is a bit too in love with his jump shot. He is really great when he attacks more.
Sorry I meant aside from steph him and paschall are the only ones
Final stats:
Nets:
53.8% shooting (50/93 FGs)
16/39 three pointers
18/20 FTs
45 rebounds (8 off.)
35 assists
13 turnovers
9 steals
5 blocks
Warriors:
48.9% shooting (44/90 FGs)
9/34 three pointers
20/25 FTs
37 rebounds (5 off.)
25 assists
13 turnovers
6 steals
6 blocks
Points in paint:
Nets: 54
Warriors: 58
Fastbreak points:
Nets: 20
Warriors: 19
Points off turnovers:
Nets: 18
Warriors: 12
Bench points:
Nets: 39
Warriors: 42
Added link to the Justinian Jessup game live on Twitch right now.
I tune in and right away Jessup blocks a shot, takes it all the way back for a pull up three.
Don’t appreciate how the Hawks uniforms are designed to make the uniform numbers impossible to read
Next play, guy shoots a 3 in his face. Two plays later, Jessup creates another pull-up 3 from nothing in late clock PNR.
So you think this kid is for real? When could/should he come help this team?
I don’t know but he’s probably playing himself into a serious look
BKN backdoor cut us into Australia
Couple shots of Klay this game
https://twitter.com/WSandretto/status/1360778104914944000?s=20
https://twitter.com/NBCSWarriors/status/1360794120550146050?s=20
Wow. He really is upset