Nice to see the Warriors get the job done against Milwaukee Saturday night. Hopefully they will continue the good play against the Suns tonight. I hope they win it all this year, but as an objective observer (ex-D1 player, HS\College assistant and head coach who did both jobs at both of those levels for more years than I can recall.) I believe that this is not their year. You can blame injuries, you can point at the Wiggins extended absence (which is looking more and more likely as one which will rob him of this season-which is unfortunate, but which also has been handled correctly by both the player and management, this team is not capable of sustaining periods of excellent play. The largest reason for this is the split in the locker room caused by the play and antics of Jordan Poole, and the diminished leadership role of Draymond Green caused by the incident where he punched Poole's lights out. Management made a huge mistake paying Poole out when they did. He is an offensive talent with much potential, but there is a legitimate question as to his 3 point shooting ability, he is a walking turnover, he is not even an average modern NBA player on the defensive end and he is more concerned about his personal stats than the team goals. Draymond knew this and while hitting in was not the appropriate pathway to making Poole understand, it did point out his considerable concern about the young man and the fact that he believed him to be a detriment with regard to the team culture. The Warriors have a decision to make after this season. If they want to drain everything they can from the Steph\Klay\Draymond\Looney championship oriented core, they need to move Poole. If they believe that Poole is the answer, they need to move Draymond. Lacob needs to defer, and just let the people running the club do their job. Poole is only happy when they win AND he has a big night. His Rick the Rapper persona is on full display then. Grinning and bouncing around. He plays no defense, unless you are a fan of his matador act, when other players cover for his man or the man he should have switched onto sailing through the heart of the defense unimpeded. He is not physically strong enough to bang really and he has no interest in building up his body or more importantly his psyche in order to impact the game in that fashion. He doesn't see the floor consistently, he does not understand what it means to give up a good shot or a horrible shot, in order to get a teammate a great shot. Every good coach has faced this dilemma. You have a kid who has talent, but is not coachable because he smiles in your face and nods and say's 'I got it coach.' Nothing is scarier than players who say that all the time. It means that they view the coach and team culture as something that does not affect them or matter with regard to how they view the game. Poole is arrogant and condescending with the press, especially with regard to the misogynistic way he answers questions from female reporters and analysts. He is simply not a fit for a championship team, and in my view he never will be. he shot well enough last season to be a good sixth man. But his turnovers and defense were more hidden when he played with the second team, against second tier talent. This season he has started too many games, and his weaknesses have been exposed. He is playing against the best guard or wing defensively and he is getting torched. He could improve if he were more humble, and aware and intuitive and self-critical. But he is who he is. The choice is clear. I think that with the right add ons the Warriors could win two or three titles in the coming years. But lets be clear. Steph and Draymond are wearing down. What used to be one or two games missed because of injuries, are becoming two to three weeks or a month. They are aging. Better bench support would extend their careers. Kuminga and Donte have been awesome. Payton is a Warrior both in terms of play and attitude. So are Kuminga and Donte. Poole is not. I think the time to rectify mistakes is as soon as they are recognized. They won't get much for Draymond unless he is traded to San Antonio or Sacramento or dare I say it the Knicks. Most teams don't know how to fit him into their system. They don't know how to utilize his exceptional basketball intelligence. Their defenses are not sophisticated enough to utilize Draymond's skills as the defensive leader AND centerfielder. Their guards want the ball in their hands so they can pound it up and down. I would hope that Steph and Klay and Draymond would finish their careers at Golden State. That probably will not happen. And that speaks to the modern game and the general level of basketball knowledge in front offices and owners suites across the modern NBA. They could get any pieces they need or want in exchange for Poole. Plus they dump his stupidly large salary. It would be a an easy call really. But Lacob has a huge ego and he believes that he understands the game. He doesn't even understand his own team. That is the tragedy of this season. They have had bad luck with injuries. But most of the damage is self inflicted. The player's begged him to give Payton a contract. He thought Poole was better. Poole and Payton don't even play the same game.
I agree with a lot… I won’t venture what the biggest factor in this season’s (so far) less than championship performance… it is a combo of several.
Yes, I do think that Jordan Poole’s personality is something the whole team is learning to deal with. I can’t condone Draymond’s punch but it seemed likely that it was provoked by something… and management’s restrained consequence was indicative of an understanding of what manifest it.
Most of time the team has been able to play through it all, even this season, but the results have been very uneven….
I would agree with much of what you have written but I think Lacob had to pay Poole based on his performance last season and the hope that improvements would be incremental each year. It's hard for me to see a good reason why Draymond punched him, though. That resolves nothing. Even if the theory is that Draymond could read Poole's mind and intentions, it's still assault in our grown up world. Poole had every right to take him to court if he decided to. It's like Chris Rock getting slapped. Why that wasn't legally challenged could be the subject of a lot of debate. But Draymond is an asshole who plays good defense and gets emotionally blown apart a lot. It's what he chooses to do. Stepping aside from the right and wrong, Poole getting traded is a distinct possibility in my view. His play has regressed so badly, that all his shortcomings are revealing themselves. But he is still a very good asset to have as a trade piece. A lot of teams would go after a player like him. He's fast and he can score with lightning strikes from anywhere on the court. He actually goes to the basket (gets picked way too often). The Warriors really need to target a player or players that they could trade Poole for that would tightly fit with the current core. If they have two more seasons of possible contention, you try to trade Poole. If not, Lacob should be ready to give up Draymond or Klay, maybe both, if there is a good enough deal to be had. There has to be a change for next season but how big of a change will Lacob allow?
I’m not sure the Ws could get enough in return for JP right now, maybe he improves his value into the playoffs… but it would seem to me to be having to sell at a loss to trade him as a player with his contract.
Probably the same for trading Draymond or Klay in terms of being able to acquire like value… but I have a great appreciation for DG’s basketball and KT’s skill fit with this team.
I wold accept a loss with a Poole trade having a chance to improve the current Ws much more than I think trading Dray or Klay would help, unless it is to give up on the present and build for the future.
Just to be clear. I wasn't defending Draymond punching Poole. I never hit a teammate, and I never coached a team where that happened. Obviously Draymond was set it (are practices normally videotaped by non team personnel)........but the setup only worked because of his ass clown behavior. I really appreciated the fact that you carefully read my post and understood what I was trying to say. I don't expect or desire universal agreement, but careful consideration is a gift in these times. Your comments in response were quite cogent. I don't understand Chris Rock's response to being slapped. It only makes sense if your stock in trade is being a victim. I am not a fan of Lacob. It is always better to pay young players a year too late than a year too early. Belichick dumps guys a year early all the time. Flip side of same theorem. I loath Belichick because he is rude and they cheat. But his player personnel policies are dead on.
It didn't sound like you were defending Draymond. However, I'm not sure what you are referring to as Chris Rock's response to the slap. I was amazed at how well he composed himself afterwards.
Okay, I’ve heard the sad hypothesis of locker room turmoil for the Wiggins lapse. I can’t believe it. A locker room where there are Curry, Iguodala, GP2 , with guys of Livingston’s and Myers’ moral gauge just outside the door, CANNOT be destroyed by a single incident.
Although much crueler for Wiggy, I stand on my initial hypothesis, that of a very serious illness of a very close familiar. We all know how an early age tumor can be quick and merciless, how a case of heavy autism can blow up the whole equilibrium of a family.
I agree with your hypothesis - some illness has befallen a family member in the household that requires his constant support or has shaken him to the core.
Why not be open about it?
- Because some people like privacy and don't want reporters asking same questions again and again.
- Also people will judge him based on what the issue is. "Oh, I or my XYZ had to face the same issue but I/he/she had to go to work every day. These NBA players ...".
It was great to see Steph take charge and beat the Bucs. However, if anyone thinks that this is a sign of how great the Dubs are, let me remind you that the Bucs have lost to Chicago twice, Lakers, Hornets, and Houston. All those teams have worse records than we do. We also did it without Giannis and his 30ppg.
Terrific game by Steph, but I don't see it as particularly encouraging. I'd say its more like the Dubs are a .500 team when Steph puts the team on his back and carries it.
The team has a massively expensive core (considering salary and tax) but it isn't good enough to compete for a title without a lot of help from the supporting cast. 2 cast pieces this year have been excellent: DDV & Looney. 2 pieces kinda bad or missing: Wiggs & JP3. And the youngsters have ranged from awful to encouraging.
Agreed. When you price out the players to performance, they are massively overpaid. I always liked Rick Barry's view on paying players according to performance. If you stink, you get paid less. We'll never see this happen but I think we all get the point.
I chock it up to what championships cost. Sometimes you pay the price in subsequent contracts. So, right now the Dubs are massively overpaying for the 2014-19 years of sublime excellence. Even while doing so, they produced another title on the back of a true superstar.
But that has to end at some point. We’ve got to stop massively overpaying Klay & Dray because when combined with an all time great in Steph they produced chips.
Next two games against the two teams right in front of us are HUGE. Two wins could put is in position to play for home court, two losses and we could be scratching to stay in the play in. This season is bonkers. Can't wait to get GP2 and wiggs back
Can anyone remember another situation like Wiggs where the player just disappears for personal reasons, and the team is kept in the loop, but no explanation is given to the fans? Any thoughts on what it might be? I'm guessing a close family member is sick or dying? But I remember situations in which NBA players have had parents or siblings pass away, and they take a few days off for the funeral, then are back playing. So what could it be?
No indeed. But gotta trust players and Kerr and FO and Lacob. Only Poole, Steph, Kerr and Bob have talked about it and all have been very supportive.
Wanting to know what's going on is fair enough for fans, IMHO. Passing judgement wouldn't be. Unfortunately that's what some people including some media heads will do. At the very least, they will opinionate about it. People will give unsolicited advice and send unsolicited messages. When I have such problems, I want to be left alone and let me deal it with it in my own way. I will reach out to people I need to reach out to. Who knows what the issue is but vast swath of people still don't get mental illness and will give unsolicited advice on home remedies or "you don't need therapy or meds, you can beat it if you have the will" crap.
Its not? I mean, I’ve wondered the same thing. And I’ve wondered if anything similar has happened with other sport figures. It definitely is out of the ordinary that suddenly a public figure is away for “personal reasons” for so long with zero details. It seems normal for us here to wonder and speculate about their personal lives. As long as its done in a respectful tone. I don't follow sports that much but when its a sick family member thats usually stated, right? Or if a player has to leave for rehab, thats usually stated?
It certainly, naturally makes one wonder/speculate.
But to the original question: Does anyone know of a similar thing happening to a player?
There's no point in speculating because there's nothing on which to base it. All we know is Wiggs is out for personal reasons, time of return TBD. Beyond that it's idle chatter that doesn't mean squat.
“Can anyone remember another situation like Wiggs where the player just disappears for personal reasons, and the team is kept in the loop, but no explanation is given to the fans?”
And regarding actual info, maybe Sab has a link to some tweety news ! 😃
Lakers now have the easiest strength of schedule in the NBA. Record-wise, their toughest opponent are the Suns, while their easiest opponents are the Rockets.
Damm, this year will be our fifth ring in the dynasty and then we get kuminga moody Poole and pbj rounding into shape next year with a full season of GP2.
Poole next year is gonna be a beast! Not to mention JK, but he's still hella young. Poole tho, year 5 with an inconsistent season behind him... Bite your tongue those that say trade him
D Lo takes the 3 at the buzzer. I guess if he hits it and is fouled they could tie. Or if they foul and make another miracle shot. But no. It’s a miss. Yep, Dlo.
Nice to see the Warriors get the job done against Milwaukee Saturday night. Hopefully they will continue the good play against the Suns tonight. I hope they win it all this year, but as an objective observer (ex-D1 player, HS\College assistant and head coach who did both jobs at both of those levels for more years than I can recall.) I believe that this is not their year. You can blame injuries, you can point at the Wiggins extended absence (which is looking more and more likely as one which will rob him of this season-which is unfortunate, but which also has been handled correctly by both the player and management, this team is not capable of sustaining periods of excellent play. The largest reason for this is the split in the locker room caused by the play and antics of Jordan Poole, and the diminished leadership role of Draymond Green caused by the incident where he punched Poole's lights out. Management made a huge mistake paying Poole out when they did. He is an offensive talent with much potential, but there is a legitimate question as to his 3 point shooting ability, he is a walking turnover, he is not even an average modern NBA player on the defensive end and he is more concerned about his personal stats than the team goals. Draymond knew this and while hitting in was not the appropriate pathway to making Poole understand, it did point out his considerable concern about the young man and the fact that he believed him to be a detriment with regard to the team culture. The Warriors have a decision to make after this season. If they want to drain everything they can from the Steph\Klay\Draymond\Looney championship oriented core, they need to move Poole. If they believe that Poole is the answer, they need to move Draymond. Lacob needs to defer, and just let the people running the club do their job. Poole is only happy when they win AND he has a big night. His Rick the Rapper persona is on full display then. Grinning and bouncing around. He plays no defense, unless you are a fan of his matador act, when other players cover for his man or the man he should have switched onto sailing through the heart of the defense unimpeded. He is not physically strong enough to bang really and he has no interest in building up his body or more importantly his psyche in order to impact the game in that fashion. He doesn't see the floor consistently, he does not understand what it means to give up a good shot or a horrible shot, in order to get a teammate a great shot. Every good coach has faced this dilemma. You have a kid who has talent, but is not coachable because he smiles in your face and nods and say's 'I got it coach.' Nothing is scarier than players who say that all the time. It means that they view the coach and team culture as something that does not affect them or matter with regard to how they view the game. Poole is arrogant and condescending with the press, especially with regard to the misogynistic way he answers questions from female reporters and analysts. He is simply not a fit for a championship team, and in my view he never will be. he shot well enough last season to be a good sixth man. But his turnovers and defense were more hidden when he played with the second team, against second tier talent. This season he has started too many games, and his weaknesses have been exposed. He is playing against the best guard or wing defensively and he is getting torched. He could improve if he were more humble, and aware and intuitive and self-critical. But he is who he is. The choice is clear. I think that with the right add ons the Warriors could win two or three titles in the coming years. But lets be clear. Steph and Draymond are wearing down. What used to be one or two games missed because of injuries, are becoming two to three weeks or a month. They are aging. Better bench support would extend their careers. Kuminga and Donte have been awesome. Payton is a Warrior both in terms of play and attitude. So are Kuminga and Donte. Poole is not. I think the time to rectify mistakes is as soon as they are recognized. They won't get much for Draymond unless he is traded to San Antonio or Sacramento or dare I say it the Knicks. Most teams don't know how to fit him into their system. They don't know how to utilize his exceptional basketball intelligence. Their defenses are not sophisticated enough to utilize Draymond's skills as the defensive leader AND centerfielder. Their guards want the ball in their hands so they can pound it up and down. I would hope that Steph and Klay and Draymond would finish their careers at Golden State. That probably will not happen. And that speaks to the modern game and the general level of basketball knowledge in front offices and owners suites across the modern NBA. They could get any pieces they need or want in exchange for Poole. Plus they dump his stupidly large salary. It would be a an easy call really. But Lacob has a huge ego and he believes that he understands the game. He doesn't even understand his own team. That is the tragedy of this season. They have had bad luck with injuries. But most of the damage is self inflicted. The player's begged him to give Payton a contract. He thought Poole was better. Poole and Payton don't even play the same game.
I agree with a lot… I won’t venture what the biggest factor in this season’s (so far) less than championship performance… it is a combo of several.
Yes, I do think that Jordan Poole’s personality is something the whole team is learning to deal with. I can’t condone Draymond’s punch but it seemed likely that it was provoked by something… and management’s restrained consequence was indicative of an understanding of what manifest it.
Most of time the team has been able to play through it all, even this season, but the results have been very uneven….
Hoping for the best for all
concerned and more exciting games for us fans.
TLDR: trade Poole
tldr. lol. You want one liners? this is the American way!
I would agree with much of what you have written but I think Lacob had to pay Poole based on his performance last season and the hope that improvements would be incremental each year. It's hard for me to see a good reason why Draymond punched him, though. That resolves nothing. Even if the theory is that Draymond could read Poole's mind and intentions, it's still assault in our grown up world. Poole had every right to take him to court if he decided to. It's like Chris Rock getting slapped. Why that wasn't legally challenged could be the subject of a lot of debate. But Draymond is an asshole who plays good defense and gets emotionally blown apart a lot. It's what he chooses to do. Stepping aside from the right and wrong, Poole getting traded is a distinct possibility in my view. His play has regressed so badly, that all his shortcomings are revealing themselves. But he is still a very good asset to have as a trade piece. A lot of teams would go after a player like him. He's fast and he can score with lightning strikes from anywhere on the court. He actually goes to the basket (gets picked way too often). The Warriors really need to target a player or players that they could trade Poole for that would tightly fit with the current core. If they have two more seasons of possible contention, you try to trade Poole. If not, Lacob should be ready to give up Draymond or Klay, maybe both, if there is a good enough deal to be had. There has to be a change for next season but how big of a change will Lacob allow?
I’m not sure the Ws could get enough in return for JP right now, maybe he improves his value into the playoffs… but it would seem to me to be having to sell at a loss to trade him as a player with his contract.
Probably the same for trading Draymond or Klay in terms of being able to acquire like value… but I have a great appreciation for DG’s basketball and KT’s skill fit with this team.
I wold accept a loss with a Poole trade having a chance to improve the current Ws much more than I think trading Dray or Klay would help, unless it is to give up on the present and build for the future.
Just to be clear. I wasn't defending Draymond punching Poole. I never hit a teammate, and I never coached a team where that happened. Obviously Draymond was set it (are practices normally videotaped by non team personnel)........but the setup only worked because of his ass clown behavior. I really appreciated the fact that you carefully read my post and understood what I was trying to say. I don't expect or desire universal agreement, but careful consideration is a gift in these times. Your comments in response were quite cogent. I don't understand Chris Rock's response to being slapped. It only makes sense if your stock in trade is being a victim. I am not a fan of Lacob. It is always better to pay young players a year too late than a year too early. Belichick dumps guys a year early all the time. Flip side of same theorem. I loath Belichick because he is rude and they cheat. But his player personnel policies are dead on.
It didn't sound like you were defending Draymond. However, I'm not sure what you are referring to as Chris Rock's response to the slap. I was amazed at how well he composed himself afterwards.
Okay, I’ve heard the sad hypothesis of locker room turmoil for the Wiggins lapse. I can’t believe it. A locker room where there are Curry, Iguodala, GP2 , with guys of Livingston’s and Myers’ moral gauge just outside the door, CANNOT be destroyed by a single incident.
Although much crueler for Wiggy, I stand on my initial hypothesis, that of a very serious illness of a very close familiar. We all know how an early age tumor can be quick and merciless, how a case of heavy autism can blow up the whole equilibrium of a family.
But then, why hide it?
What do ya think?
Who submitted the sad hypothesis that locker room turmoil has something to do with Wiggins’ absence?
I agree with your hypothesis - some illness has befallen a family member in the household that requires his constant support or has shaken him to the core.
Why not be open about it?
- Because some people like privacy and don't want reporters asking same questions again and again.
- Also people will judge him based on what the issue is. "Oh, I or my XYZ had to face the same issue but I/he/she had to go to work every day. These NBA players ...".
I've assumed this was the case, since I wasn't aware of any issues until he left in the middle of a B2B.
It was great to see Steph take charge and beat the Bucs. However, if anyone thinks that this is a sign of how great the Dubs are, let me remind you that the Bucs have lost to Chicago twice, Lakers, Hornets, and Houston. All those teams have worse records than we do. We also did it without Giannis and his 30ppg.
Terrific game by Steph, but I don't see it as particularly encouraging. I'd say its more like the Dubs are a .500 team when Steph puts the team on his back and carries it.
The team has a massively expensive core (considering salary and tax) but it isn't good enough to compete for a title without a lot of help from the supporting cast. 2 cast pieces this year have been excellent: DDV & Looney. 2 pieces kinda bad or missing: Wiggs & JP3. And the youngsters have ranged from awful to encouraging.
Agreed. When you price out the players to performance, they are massively overpaid. I always liked Rick Barry's view on paying players according to performance. If you stink, you get paid less. We'll never see this happen but I think we all get the point.
I chock it up to what championships cost. Sometimes you pay the price in subsequent contracts. So, right now the Dubs are massively overpaying for the 2014-19 years of sublime excellence. Even while doing so, they produced another title on the back of a true superstar.
But that has to end at some point. We’ve got to stop massively overpaying Klay & Dray because when combined with an all time great in Steph they produced chips.
Next two games against the two teams right in front of us are HUGE. Two wins could put is in position to play for home court, two losses and we could be scratching to stay in the play in. This season is bonkers. Can't wait to get GP2 and wiggs back
Can anyone remember another situation like Wiggs where the player just disappears for personal reasons, and the team is kept in the loop, but no explanation is given to the fans? Any thoughts on what it might be? I'm guessing a close family member is sick or dying? But I remember situations in which NBA players have had parents or siblings pass away, and they take a few days off for the funeral, then are back playing. So what could it be?
No indeed. But gotta trust players and Kerr and FO and Lacob. Only Poole, Steph, Kerr and Bob have talked about it and all have been very supportive.
Wanting to know what's going on is fair enough for fans, IMHO. Passing judgement wouldn't be. Unfortunately that's what some people including some media heads will do. At the very least, they will opinionate about it. People will give unsolicited advice and send unsolicited messages. When I have such problems, I want to be left alone and let me deal it with it in my own way. I will reach out to people I need to reach out to. Who knows what the issue is but vast swath of people still don't get mental illness and will give unsolicited advice on home remedies or "you don't need therapy or meds, you can beat it if you have the will" crap.
No. It's a very strange situation.
I know it’s natural to speculate, but I don’t think it’s really appropriate discourse for a message board.
Its not? I mean, I’ve wondered the same thing. And I’ve wondered if anything similar has happened with other sport figures. It definitely is out of the ordinary that suddenly a public figure is away for “personal reasons” for so long with zero details. It seems normal for us here to wonder and speculate about their personal lives. As long as its done in a respectful tone. I don't follow sports that much but when its a sick family member thats usually stated, right? Or if a player has to leave for rehab, thats usually stated?
It certainly, naturally makes one wonder/speculate.
But to the original question: Does anyone know of a similar thing happening to a player?
There's no point in speculating because there's nothing on which to base it. All we know is Wiggs is out for personal reasons, time of return TBD. Beyond that it's idle chatter that doesn't mean squat.
“Can anyone remember another situation like Wiggs where the player just disappears for personal reasons, and the team is kept in the loop, but no explanation is given to the fans?”
And regarding actual info, maybe Sab has a link to some tweety news ! 😃
Josh Hart is the Knicks' DDV
Well… except he makes what DDV hopes to make. More should be expected of Hart
Lakers now have the easiest strength of schedule in the NBA. Record-wise, their toughest opponent are the Suns, while their easiest opponents are the Rockets.
https://www.tankathon.com/remaining_schedule_strength
Damm, this year will be our fifth ring in the dynasty and then we get kuminga moody Poole and pbj rounding into shape next year with a full season of GP2.
We might just be able to get to 7
Poole next year is gonna be a beast! Not to mention JK, but he's still hella young. Poole tho, year 5 with an inconsistent season behind him... Bite your tongue those that say trade him
Got a sneaky feeling Lakers lose their next 2 games
Lakers next games:
3/14- @ Pelicans
3/15- @ Rockets
3/17- vs. Mavericks
3/19- vs. Magic
3/22- vs. Suns
3/24- vs. Thunder
3/26- vs. Bulls
3/29- @ Bulls
3/31- @ Timberwolves
All those are winnable games... but all also losable... will be really nice to see them lose @NOP.
And it’s weird that there are 4 teams at 33-35 (Lakers, Jazz, Pels, Thunder).
D Lo takes the 3 at the buzzer. I guess if he hits it and is fouled they could tie. Or if they foul and make another miracle shot. But no. It’s a miss. Yep, Dlo.
Knicks beat the Lakers 112-108. Knicks move to 40-30 while the Lakers fall to 33-35.
Yay, Lakers LOST!
Knicks up 112-108 with 5 seconds left.
Hart makes both FTs. Over.
Lakers took a long time to foul