Alright I changed my mind. Knowing that Draymond should be back in a week or less, I think losing CP3 will help the team post-return as long as Kerr is willing to take the offensive hit that comes with Podziemski playing point guard. Deal with the offensive dropoff and start playing Moody more and with him and Draymond in the Warriors will be much bigger and better defensively, jumpstart their transition game, and restore their proven Curry+Defense winning formula.
A lot of whether they are actually going to be a contender this season depends on Wiggins getting it going, but perhaps if Wiggins has more defensive support behind it will help him establish a rhythm and feel more comfortable offensively.
I don't know how good it looks in the games where Draymond is also out, but whatever. It's time for Kerr to remove Podz' training wheels and see what happens, and this gives them a prime opportunity to do so.
Of all the dumb things Draymond has said, and boy is that a list with a lot of candidates for dumbest, I think his declaration that the purpose that animates this season is to "win a chip for CP" is the most absurd. I can think of a million reasons to be motivated to win a chip that come before that. To get Steph another to cement his GOAT claims, to being joy to the bay area, to faciliatate the transistion from veteran to young; to make Klay feel like he hasn't lost it all; to rejuvenate Kerr; to reward a (sometimes) patient fan base; to stick it to the Lakers and Nuggets and Celtics and whomever else we tread upon; to prove the value of our joy-based approached to basketball.
CP being happy is I suppose nice but does not in any way figure into my calculations. Speaking of which, if he's traded for good value tomorrow, I'm emotionally just fine with that. Signing off on that in advance. I mean, do YOU care about CP's feelings and legacy? If anything, we were the destroyers of his legacy and have long taken pride in that.
> If anything, we were the destroyers of his legacy and have long taken pride in that
“We” aren’t anything other than fans of the team. Draymond is. I am willing to take what he says at face value for him and not worry about what I think of it. I certainly don’t care, but I’m not going to cast aspersions on Dray for sharing his perspective.
Did the league feel sorry for the Warriors (aka realize they make more $$$ when the Warriors are in the playoffs) and suddenly declare Dray could play when CP got hurt?
Otherwise why didn’t Dray do the ramp up a week ago? Maybe it’s because that’s just how long it took the therapy to fix his anger issue? (Yes the final line is /s.)
Yes they did. We had no indication of when they’d allow Dray back. Woj at one point said minimum 13 games, but past that it was just “Dray has to hit certain milestones”.
I think its pretty clear he didn’t just coincidentally hit those milestones as soon as CP was hurt. The suspension was solely a PR thing, and the league felt bad about holding him out anymore.
The suspension had real financial implications for both Draymond and the team, as well as locking him out of all of the season awards. Far from “solely PR”.
They didn’t say “we’re punishing Draymond by suspending him x games to financially punish him and lock him out of awards” though. They said “He’s indefinitely suspended so he can get help”.
That’s a PR move. Especially when you declare these ambiguous issues fixed after a few weeks.
That may or may not be a PR move. I also question the issues being "fixed" after a few weeks. It would have be more that the suspension provided a breather to give him a chance to start treatment, and then he will need ongoing therapy or whatever the treatment is. I expect that is the plan, not just "you are back, all healed." Maybe they really did want to get him help; if they didn't, and he keeps misbehaving, his career could come to an abrupt end. That would be bad for all concerned.
Keeping him out of awards is merely an annoyance for him. Losing money is a real message. Therapy is a potential contributor to healing.
Too bad there was no way for him to stay in shape while suspended. As a coach. Draymond’s actions during the suspension make it 100% clear that this is not a leader that you want influencing the team. He’s obviously not focused on doing everything in his power to help the team win and his only leadership role at this stage should be communication on D. I would not want him influencing work ethic in that locker room or trying to big time any young guys.
But he could have been had he chosen to. He seems to have taken the line of I’m not getting paid therefore I’m not doing diddly. He could have been in the practice facility every day and been more than ready to come back as soon as the suspension was done. Unless getting away from the team was part of a suggested path for progress mentally.
And of course attending LeBron’s party was an essential part of mental wellbeing too.
After a long and Herculean struggle, I’ve finally come up with a trade proposal I like that’s also realistic.
Quite simply, we trade Andrew Wiggins for Nikola Vucevic. They’re roughly equivalent when it comes to point production. Nikola is a much better passer especially when accounting for position and a bette rebounder but Wiggins is a better defense and shooter.
Nikola is a better fit with us due to his ability to pass/shoot allowing him to fit smoothly alongside Draymond. It would allow for us to have solid size in our team with a starting lineup of Curry/Klay/Kuminga/Dray/Nikola and a bench of CP/Podz/Moody/Saric/TJD.
It’s a nice simple trade that helps both teams, is of roughly equivalent value, and fits contract-wise. Any loss defensively with Wiggins is somewhat minimized by TJD’s insertion into consistent game time and the additional size it gives us alongside Saric. What do y’all think?
I don't see the scenario where the team can trade Wiggins and contend for a title tbh, the only guy on the trade market who could have filled his role was Anunoby, no? I think the idea of the team was built around Wiggins sopping up 30+ two-way wing minutes and they are just going to have to figure out how to get him going. I think Draymond coming back will help with that, but Wiggins has to figure it out.
EDIT: I'm assuming Mikal Bridges isn't available, he'd obviously fit the role too.
If the Nets trade Bridges to us, their GM should be committed to a hospital for the criminally insane. There is no practical deal we can offer them (short of including Steph, which would mean MDJ being committed to the hospital for the criminally insane) that would be worth them giving us Bridges. It ain't happening.
Me too I think? It's punting on this season though; I really doubt anyone we want to rely on during the PS can be brought in this late into the season and be ready. I'd still probably do it bc he's on a good deal the next couple years
I like Vooch as a replacement for Dario. Not sure it's worth the salary hit though-- are there other big shooters who could be had for less in the next 2 years?
If we didn't have Kuminga, we'd want to keep Wiggins. If Wiggins is going to underperform forever, he should be traded. It's just so hard to know whether and when he'll bounce back.
Vucevic is a nice offensive player but a liability on defense. I think we can do better and should. Try your trade with CP thrown in and let me know what you get back.
An athletic wing defender who hasn’t been able to dribble, shoot, score, pass, rebound all year is a negative as well imo.
In any case, your looking at it wrong, losing Wiggins doesn’t harm us because we have Kuminga as a serviceable replacement and securing Nikola allows for us to present something more than traffic cone resistance against the elite bigs/wings of the league. Simply being big speaks volumes, even in below average defenders.
Man listening to the Warriors +- and they are talking about that secondary ball handler role. JK in the post has shown the patience and willingness to wait for the cutter to come off a screen and hit them for the shot. Even in the scramble he’s found Klay for the open shot on time with his passes. They should stop fixating on a traditional secondary ball handler and think of how effective Bogut was on O before the rise of point Draymond (who has steadily gotten worse, especially in the clutch, as teams figure him out.)
Edit to clarify: because once they get over the fixation of a secondary ball handler from the top then they will be freed to address putting out their best lineups in all the other facets of the game that actually lead to success. And all the players on the team seem to be able to make solid offensive reads (except for Wiggins) so the ball will find efficient shots out there if they play together with purpose for the two months CP is out.
My assumption was that ball handler in this case meant someone who can run the pick and roll or otherwise initiate actions/motion from outside the arc. Seems different/distinct from the roles related to triangle O. Is that not correct?
JK has recently become much much more patient and effective attacking the basket, often turning it into a post up… it’s been impressive. He’s been much better as a connector as well… but as a secondary ball handler, I’m not quite sure. Say they trap Steph and JK catches out of the roll or on the weak side. I think he’s not creating an advantage out of 1:1 unless he’s got a smaller defender already switched onto him. And he needs more reps to be consistently successful on the short roll. Just not quite shown enough for me to trust him as a secondary ball handler yet…
The issue is JK doesn't get enough PnR touches, especially with Steph on the floor. Get that man out the corner. I'm hoping drays 3 ball is still there when he gets back because Curry JK PnRs in a Curry klay Wiggins JK green lineup will be deadly
He hasn’t yet, but his timing and decision making has come so far this year that there’s a real chance he’ll figure it out quickly if given the reps. I’m actually more concerned about JK’s back down defense issues than if he could be effective on the short roll. I think he’ll be more effective than Dray in that short role quite rapidly.
Edit hopefully the pun attempt didn’t confuse the point too much!
If we were ACTUALLY 22-13, having not blown the 5 “shoulda won” games, maybe we can find some reps for him… but we’re 17-18 and fighting for play in positioning…
You know me. Give yourself the best chance to win each game is all I care about. Wouldn’t propose it if it’s a hypothetical development that would sacrifice the present.
This Warriors team has a chance to win it all. Why? Because they have a top 5 guy and a bunch of guys who know basketball.
They have been up big against strong opponents all year. They have been in almost every game!
And they have done all of that with coaches making life hard on the players by randomly playing lineups with no rhyme or reason (at least the reasons they give for the choices sound mostly ridiculous after the fact, and certainly aren’t based on effectiveness or cohesion.)
Once the coaches stop throwing wrenches in the gears and put together purposeful lineups for the stretch run, this team will be able to beat anybody but the Lakers (because of Curry’s deal with the devil) in the playoffs.
I loved tone look at missed defensive assignments! I saw the Cade drive past JK in real time, and was disappointed in JK’s defense… but it’s never that simple. Really brings into question those “lowest FG% as nearest defender” stats… if you’re the one stuck nearest to the ball after a teammate blows a rotation or assignment, you’re getting tagged on some easy looks…
1 year wedding anniversary youse guys. Headed to Cancun out of St Louis (shoutout Abaddon) anyways wanted to tell yall i have appreciated the interactions over the last year. Well in regards to my wife but also the convos on here.
Also been thinking alot about a trade and I want Zach Lavine. Contract is kinda onerous but its not my money but I think a lineup of Steph, Lavine, Wiggins, Dray, and TJd spaces decently. Then bring Klay, PodZ, Looney, off the bench. Flight boarding talk soon
Lavine plays no defense and has consistently been a pronounced negative on the floor over his career (-4.8 on court, -3.5 net on-off, -7.2/-7.3 this season). And his contract is more than “kinda onerous” — it’s $43M, $46M, $49M for the next three seasons after this one. Possibly the worst current contract in the NBA.
Fortunately, I think there’s next to zero chance the Warriors even consider taking him on.
Yep, I don't get the yearning for LaVine. If you factor in defense, Moody is already just about as good this season and he is 1/10th the price. In addition, for whatever reason, LaVine has been one of those guys that has trouble staying healthy.
Hey EA. Fun as always. I don't think your suggestion that TJD should never switch/help when JK is guarding has been fairly evaluated. Sure, it didn't work in that one clip, but I'm not so sure they got the message. If JK was told that no one was going to help, he may have positioned himself differently.
Personally, I don't think ANY defender can stop most quality NBA scorers one on one and there should pretty much always be a help scheme BUT it's hard to do right and when done wrong, well, look at the layup by Cade you were talking about. It's one of the reasons the Warriors were so good at the height of their powers: because everyone knew how to play D TOGETHER and knew where to be and when to help (any combination of Klay, Dray, Iggy, Bogut, Barnes, KD when motivated, Sean, David West, Pachulia, McGee Barnes and a few others and even Steph though he wasn't so good one on one, knew how to play together and who should do what). I really think that is the thing that the youngsters have to learn the most and why JK sometimes gets pulled even though the one on one stuff looks good. It's also why TJD may not yet be ready to take over for Loon 100%.
Incidentally, while I basically agree and feel the same, I think it's interesting that fans are so attached to JK and were so ready to get rid of KOJ (but then I liked KOJ more than most and i was sorry his ego couldn't get out of his own way) when they are kind of similar ability players. I think the difference is attitude and willingness to learn and be part of the team, but maybe it's just high draft pick vs free agent ...
Good point that one play is the ultimate small sample size. And I was definitely being very casual with my words… there’s always a need for a help defense, so the question is how sensitive is the trigger to help, and TJD should rarely help JK because TJD has been giving up a bunch of free putbacks and dump off passes with overhelp. It’s kind of like the Draymond Rules: let him guard one-on-one and fight through screens.
There’s some old Dray quote I wish I’d saved about how JK is a special defender like Dray and it shouldn’t be that he fits into a defensive scheme, the scheme should fit around JK.
I was a big KOj fan in the sense that I felt he could capably back up Klay if he bought in to the team and stopped free-lancing and making low-BBIQ plays. And KOj said all the right things, but then, right after the trade deadline he said he didn't want to be put in a box, wanted to start, yada yada. To me that's a totally disrespectful move. He could have informed them privately that unless he starts, he's leaving, and then let them trade him. He was a free agent at the end of the year--why screw the team that let you keep starting after 1 for 90 from 3? JK is behaving EXACTLY the opposite. He and his people are letting the team know what he wants in time for the team to decide whether to trade him now or keep him. Think he deserves what he wants OR think he deserves NOTHING, you have to respect that he is not trying to harm the team. He is giving the team a chance to meet his requests, or move on in the least team-harming way. THAT'S maturity.
Given that starting lineups vs bench lineups are nothing more than fun but useless wastes of time due to the lack of hockey subs, I’d like to ask a different question. Which lineups would you like to see more of (mixing “starters” and “bench”).
For me, I’ve been a big fan of the Paul/Podz/Klay/Kuminga/Saric lineup every time it hits the floor. Just a blithering offensive lineup with Paul/Podz/Kuminga providing enough defense to be a very nice squad. Another lineup I’ve really liked (and one I’ve wanted starting for a bit) is the Paul/Curry/Klay/Kuminga/Looney lineup. Sure, they give up some size but Paul still being tough defensively, Kuminga’s elite athleticism and newfound dedication to rebounding, and Looney’s elite rebounding all help mitigate that.
I find it weird that The Warriors and Kerr changed the league with "smallball" but it was Curry and a bunch of 6'6+" dudes.
Last few years Kerr's smallball lineups have gotten smaller and smaller. Ws weakside low man help defense has always been super aggressive but nowadays consistently having like Steph or CP3 be that low man really hurting the weakside defense, imo. Particularly with no true shot blocker on the floor.
Gimme Curry-Dray and a bunch of wings: Curry-Podz-Klay-JK-Dray. Can go longer armed with Moody or Wiggins over Podz, but hard to deny how much a positive impact Podz has had.
The whole small ball thing was overblown. Sure, when Dray plays center that makes it small ball but for many of the dynasty years we had, as you say, a bunch of 6'6"+ dudes plus bigs like Bogut, Zaza, and JaVale. For three years we had a 6'12" wing as well. What's small about that?
100% with this point. Hopefully Kerr gets that too. One of the coaches needs to get Kerr in the video room and go over his past vs present lineup choices.
I don't know if it'll ever happen, but I'd like to see an all-D lineup every once in awhile. Something like Paul-GPII-Wiggins-Kuminga-Draymond. Could also include Moody and/or Looney depending on matchup. I think it'd be a tone setter to just smother the opponent's offense for a few minutes, and hope for transition buckets or drawn fouls to provide offense.
I think you mean "blistering". I am intrigued by what might be meant by a blithering offensive lineup though! I feel like it might apply to some of our lineups this year, particularly when we've managed to stake out a big lead...
Steph-Podz-Klay-JK-Loon is the starting lineup I want (and think might happen?) TJD could replace Loon, but I like Loon’s experience with other starting Cs and chemistry with Steph/Klay.
I like the idea of pairing Dray with Saric, for spacing. Podz-Klay-Moody-Dray-Saric might be my favorite non-Steph lineup.
Smallball: Steph-Klay-Moody-JK-Dray. With Dray at C, you want length at the 2-3-4.
I like Wiggs and think he’s been showing increasing signs of his old form, but is it telling that he’s not in any of my favorite lineups? Love his D, but it’s tough to be a positive player when you’re subpar-to-mediocre at passing, ballhandling, rebounding, and shooting. Unless and until I trust his three-ball again, I’m good with JK, Klay and/or Moody taking most of his minutes.
Wiggins on ball D against Murray was great in the Denver game which lured Kerr into keeping him on the floor, but everything else is so negative right now that it’s still not working as a whole for Wiggs.
I would propose that starting a Steph Moody Klay JK Loon lineup would also make some sense with CP out.
Then Podz can come in at a stagger and get some point minutes as well. I don’t mind CoJo when healthy but don’t want to see him on the court too much.
And the Curry Moody pairing has been the best Steph D pairing on the court.
A Podz, Steph, Moody, Saric, TJD line up might also be fun. It’s the off ball awareness of Moody on D that Makes watching him so enjoyable for me and the loose ball aggression.
One very important rumor with Siakim is that the Sixers are likely to offer him a max contract in fa so whichever team he gets traded to is very likely a rental. Which is why no teams willing to include much for him now including us.
You know what makes me excited for the future of the Warriors? Paying a declining Siakam $300M over the next five years and losing the TPMLE basically forever.
And, have all of your picks move to the back of the first round.
That provision is the one I think is the killer of being over the 2nd apron. Not only can you not expect a good player to come your way via the draft, but as trade assets, they are essentially early 2nd round picks and worth very little.
I just don't see Siakim helping us much if Dray comes back and plays well. Not sure that lineups with Siakim are any better than ones with JK or Loon. It's kind of only if Dray can't reintegrate and stay on the floor that a trade for Siakim might help us, and even then I am not sure it's worth the rental cost unless it's very cheap (which I guess is a possibility if the rumors you mention have tanked his value to most teams enough)
What we lacked in the Den games was a 4 defender that couldn’t be bullied in the post. JK can be backed into the hoop from the 3 point line in less than 3 seconds. Denver killed him on that. A lineup where Curry is the only guy you have to hide on pre switches would be useful.
Can addition of Dray make Wiggs-JK pairing more effective? Steph-Klay-Wiggs-JK-Dray line up is -3.7 in 25 min played this season.
O=109.3 D=113.0 N=-3.7 (that's a really bad Ortg and reasonable Dtrg).
During that stretch of games, Klay and Wiggs were playing like crap on offensive end. JK was probably playing with sword hanging over his head. With both of that changed, I wonder if and how that lineup especially it's offensive numbers will be better. Kerr/MDJ would want to give the pairing/line up a decent runway before pulling the plug on one of JK or Wiggs.
I’m a hard no on losing Moody for a partially washed rental like Bojan or Hayward.
Someone on the other site mentioned Wiggs for Schröder and Boucher, which I found mildly interesting if CP is done for the season or shipped off in another deal. Schröder brings needed playmaking and offensive juice off the bench (plus some defensive grit); Boucher brings occasional rim protection off the bench; and the departure of Wiggs frees up minutes for Kuminga and Moody to spread their wings.
Not sure why the Raps do it, tho, beyond the “Wiggs is from Toronto” thing. Might need to throw in a pick or something to make Masai consider it.
I've also seem Wiggins or Cp3 for a combo of Brogdon and Thybulle which is intriguing, but might be harder to deal with Portland because they own our pick.
That is the first trade I've seen that makes sense for the Warriors and is sort of realistic (maybe because I'd already zeroed in on Brogdon as a player that might fit well here in the bench PG role so I might be biased :D). Not sure how Portland would feel about it though ...
I love the thought of Thybulle on the floor with Draymond, as long as Thybulle's 3PT% isn't a mirage. Also, having Thybulle would make it more likely that GP3 gets shipped out this offseason, given his contract and lack of availability this season.
If they do it, it just shows the Dubs need someone like Jerry West to give some perspective. The odds of a title this year are moderate. Making a trade to get a rotation piece pretty much shuts the door on a title this year. Why be so foolish? Is it doing something just to be doing something?
My thing is what does Curry want? If the fo doesn't think we have a chance this year or next, then they should let Curry know. Does he want us to make trades to give him a chance? Or is he okay with just playing it out with Dray/Klay while we're a middling team. I think we owe it to him to try, foolish or not.
The problem is that the data show that mid-season trades of rotation players result in a title EXTREMELY rarely. So the whole premise of "Go All In" is mistaken. SO, it really comes down to this:
1--Make a trade, which basically punts this year?
2--Make no trade, but alter roles and PT to get TODAY'S best players on the floor?
3--Make trade/don't make trade, but assign PT based on 2016 performances?
In my view, #2 is the only chance Steph has at getting a title this year. And, #2 has the important ancillary benefit of being cheap and helpful to the future as well. Options 1 and 3 are just doing something to do something (#1) or for nostalgia (#3). Just remember--Steph and Dray preferred Avery Bradley over GPII. Had they prevailed, pretty sure they would not have gotten ring #4.
How about making a trade to enhance the chance of #2 occurring ?
Gambling that Wiggins will regain change of scenery/contract year championship form seems like banking on hitting the lottery. Removing that option from the roster through trade might be the most likely path to #2.
I think Kerr is slowly pointing the ship toward option 2. He’s been reducing the roles of Wiggins and Looney. After “the talk” with Klay and that he’s been on the bench during some high leverage situations, I’m even more convinced.
I REALLY hope Draymond is on board with different lineups. I know they like to pair him with Steph, but his flexibility would allow some very interesting lineups.
I would not want to trade Jonathan Kuminga after the Warriors have invested the past three years in his development. Everyone knew he was young and inexperienced when drafted. He has grown.
I hope the team and player have the patience to realize the fruits of his first three years on a championship team with a few more years moving forward.
Game thread and more Duby: https://dubnationhq.com/p/greens-return-feels-like-the-last.
Alright I changed my mind. Knowing that Draymond should be back in a week or less, I think losing CP3 will help the team post-return as long as Kerr is willing to take the offensive hit that comes with Podziemski playing point guard. Deal with the offensive dropoff and start playing Moody more and with him and Draymond in the Warriors will be much bigger and better defensively, jumpstart their transition game, and restore their proven Curry+Defense winning formula.
A lot of whether they are actually going to be a contender this season depends on Wiggins getting it going, but perhaps if Wiggins has more defensive support behind it will help him establish a rhythm and feel more comfortable offensively.
I don't know how good it looks in the games where Draymond is also out, but whatever. It's time for Kerr to remove Podz' training wheels and see what happens, and this gives them a prime opportunity to do so.
Of all the dumb things Draymond has said, and boy is that a list with a lot of candidates for dumbest, I think his declaration that the purpose that animates this season is to "win a chip for CP" is the most absurd. I can think of a million reasons to be motivated to win a chip that come before that. To get Steph another to cement his GOAT claims, to being joy to the bay area, to faciliatate the transistion from veteran to young; to make Klay feel like he hasn't lost it all; to rejuvenate Kerr; to reward a (sometimes) patient fan base; to stick it to the Lakers and Nuggets and Celtics and whomever else we tread upon; to prove the value of our joy-based approached to basketball.
CP being happy is I suppose nice but does not in any way figure into my calculations. Speaking of which, if he's traded for good value tomorrow, I'm emotionally just fine with that. Signing off on that in advance. I mean, do YOU care about CP's feelings and legacy? If anything, we were the destroyers of his legacy and have long taken pride in that.
> If anything, we were the destroyers of his legacy and have long taken pride in that
“We” aren’t anything other than fans of the team. Draymond is. I am willing to take what he says at face value for him and not worry about what I think of it. I certainly don’t care, but I’m not going to cast aspersions on Dray for sharing his perspective.
Please define “aspersions.”
So Dray can come back after 12 games off? IF so when would his return date be?
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/draymond-green-reinstated-from-suspension-served-12-games-for-striking-suns-c-jusuf-nurkic-224918710.html
He can return tonight, but he needs to ramp up back into game-shape so won’t be back for like a week or so.
Did the league feel sorry for the Warriors (aka realize they make more $$$ when the Warriors are in the playoffs) and suddenly declare Dray could play when CP got hurt?
Otherwise why didn’t Dray do the ramp up a week ago? Maybe it’s because that’s just how long it took the therapy to fix his anger issue? (Yes the final line is /s.)
Yes they did. We had no indication of when they’d allow Dray back. Woj at one point said minimum 13 games, but past that it was just “Dray has to hit certain milestones”.
I think its pretty clear he didn’t just coincidentally hit those milestones as soon as CP was hurt. The suspension was solely a PR thing, and the league felt bad about holding him out anymore.
The suspension had real financial implications for both Draymond and the team, as well as locking him out of all of the season awards. Far from “solely PR”.
They didn’t say “we’re punishing Draymond by suspending him x games to financially punish him and lock him out of awards” though. They said “He’s indefinitely suspended so he can get help”.
That’s a PR move. Especially when you declare these ambiguous issues fixed after a few weeks.
That may or may not be a PR move. I also question the issues being "fixed" after a few weeks. It would have be more that the suspension provided a breather to give him a chance to start treatment, and then he will need ongoing therapy or whatever the treatment is. I expect that is the plan, not just "you are back, all healed." Maybe they really did want to get him help; if they didn't, and he keeps misbehaving, his career could come to an abrupt end. That would be bad for all concerned.
Keeping him out of awards is merely an annoyance for him. Losing money is a real message. Therapy is a potential contributor to healing.
Too bad there was no way for him to stay in shape while suspended. As a coach. Draymond’s actions during the suspension make it 100% clear that this is not a leader that you want influencing the team. He’s obviously not focused on doing everything in his power to help the team win and his only leadership role at this stage should be communication on D. I would not want him influencing work ethic in that locker room or trying to big time any young guys.
Was not even with the team till about a week ago.
But he could have been had he chosen to. He seems to have taken the line of I’m not getting paid therefore I’m not doing diddly. He could have been in the practice facility every day and been more than ready to come back as soon as the suspension was done. Unless getting away from the team was part of a suggested path for progress mentally.
And of course attending LeBron’s party was an essential part of mental wellbeing too.
Of course he could have stayed in shape. It's hard to stay in game shape but I doubt he was just eating donuts on the couch like he's me or something
After a long and Herculean struggle, I’ve finally come up with a trade proposal I like that’s also realistic.
Quite simply, we trade Andrew Wiggins for Nikola Vucevic. They’re roughly equivalent when it comes to point production. Nikola is a much better passer especially when accounting for position and a bette rebounder but Wiggins is a better defense and shooter.
Nikola is a better fit with us due to his ability to pass/shoot allowing him to fit smoothly alongside Draymond. It would allow for us to have solid size in our team with a starting lineup of Curry/Klay/Kuminga/Dray/Nikola and a bench of CP/Podz/Moody/Saric/TJD.
It’s a nice simple trade that helps both teams, is of roughly equivalent value, and fits contract-wise. Any loss defensively with Wiggins is somewhat minimized by TJD’s insertion into consistent game time and the additional size it gives us alongside Saric. What do y’all think?
I don't see the scenario where the team can trade Wiggins and contend for a title tbh, the only guy on the trade market who could have filled his role was Anunoby, no? I think the idea of the team was built around Wiggins sopping up 30+ two-way wing minutes and they are just going to have to figure out how to get him going. I think Draymond coming back will help with that, but Wiggins has to figure it out.
EDIT: I'm assuming Mikal Bridges isn't available, he'd obviously fit the role too.
Mikal would need JK, BP, and Wiggins + other stuff right? Assuming he can be had, his price tag would be heavy I imagine
I don't think the Nets are putting him on the trade block so whatever you think it is, probably add another first rounder to it lol.
If the Nets trade Bridges to us, their GM should be committed to a hospital for the criminally insane. There is no practical deal we can offer them (short of including Steph, which would mean MDJ being committed to the hospital for the criminally insane) that would be worth them giving us Bridges. It ain't happening.
Honestly I’d consider it for Mikal.
Me too I think? It's punting on this season though; I really doubt anyone we want to rely on during the PS can be brought in this late into the season and be ready. I'd still probably do it bc he's on a good deal the next couple years
I think a player like Mikal would be pretty plug and play. Give him a few games to feel out the team (a-la KD’s 1st season) and we’ll be gelling.
As Chaos says, he'd be unplayable in the playoffs (even against big centers).
I don't think that trading Wiggs for a regular-season only player is a good value.
Could you get him for CP? Is he a negative value contract at this point?
I like Vooch as a replacement for Dario. Not sure it's worth the salary hit though-- are there other big shooters who could be had for less in the next 2 years?
If we didn't have Kuminga, we'd want to keep Wiggins. If Wiggins is going to underperform forever, he should be traded. It's just so hard to know whether and when he'll bounce back.
Vucevic is a nice offensive player but a liability on defense. I think we can do better and should. Try your trade with CP thrown in and let me know what you get back.
CP has been one of our greatest impact players, I’d rather not.
Trading an athletic wings defender for someone who will get ran off the court in the playoffs is a negative imo
Who is this athletic wing defender you are referring to - wiggins - they was two years ago - he is not that anymore
His defense has been fine imo. That’s not the problem
An athletic wing defender who hasn’t been able to dribble, shoot, score, pass, rebound all year is a negative as well imo.
In any case, your looking at it wrong, losing Wiggins doesn’t harm us because we have Kuminga as a serviceable replacement and securing Nikola allows for us to present something more than traffic cone resistance against the elite bigs/wings of the league. Simply being big speaks volumes, even in below average defenders.
Love it except for starting Vuch. Unless your adding Looney and Caruso In the deal? Which makes it less realistic.
Man listening to the Warriors +- and they are talking about that secondary ball handler role. JK in the post has shown the patience and willingness to wait for the cutter to come off a screen and hit them for the shot. Even in the scramble he’s found Klay for the open shot on time with his passes. They should stop fixating on a traditional secondary ball handler and think of how effective Bogut was on O before the rise of point Draymond (who has steadily gotten worse, especially in the clutch, as teams figure him out.)
Edit to clarify: because once they get over the fixation of a secondary ball handler from the top then they will be freed to address putting out their best lineups in all the other facets of the game that actually lead to success. And all the players on the team seem to be able to make solid offensive reads (except for Wiggins) so the ball will find efficient shots out there if they play together with purpose for the two months CP is out.
My assumption was that ball handler in this case meant someone who can run the pick and roll or otherwise initiate actions/motion from outside the arc. Seems different/distinct from the roles related to triangle O. Is that not correct?
Kuminga has actually been effective in both those situations when given the opportunity I think 🤷♂️
JK has recently become much much more patient and effective attacking the basket, often turning it into a post up… it’s been impressive. He’s been much better as a connector as well… but as a secondary ball handler, I’m not quite sure. Say they trap Steph and JK catches out of the roll or on the weak side. I think he’s not creating an advantage out of 1:1 unless he’s got a smaller defender already switched onto him. And he needs more reps to be consistently successful on the short roll. Just not quite shown enough for me to trust him as a secondary ball handler yet…
JK is at 1.32 ppp as the roll man with a 10% TO% meanwhile dray is at 1.04 and a 9% TO %.
JK is more then capable of handling the short roll duties
do you know league averages and what percentile this falls in?
Woohoo numbers backing up the visuals!! Bam! And 1.32 is pretty darn good!!!
The issue is JK doesn't get enough PnR touches, especially with Steph on the floor. Get that man out the corner. I'm hoping drays 3 ball is still there when he gets back because Curry JK PnRs in a Curry klay Wiggins JK green lineup will be deadly
He hasn’t yet, but his timing and decision making has come so far this year that there’s a real chance he’ll figure it out quickly if given the reps. I’m actually more concerned about JK’s back down defense issues than if he could be effective on the short roll. I think he’ll be more effective than Dray in that short role quite rapidly.
Edit hopefully the pun attempt didn’t confuse the point too much!
If we were ACTUALLY 22-13, having not blown the 5 “shoulda won” games, maybe we can find some reps for him… but we’re 17-18 and fighting for play in positioning…
You know me. Give yourself the best chance to win each game is all I care about. Wouldn’t propose it if it’s a hypothetical development that would sacrifice the present.
Still can’t believe we’ve blown *four* 18+ point leads, 35 games into the season.
Still can’t believe we’ve blown 2 “up 3 with less than 10s” leads… against the same $@&$$&ing team…
https://x.com/wojespn/status/1744044742759928165?s=46
CP3 out 4-6 weeks. Way better than I expected. Also, he’s had 11 hand surgeries over the years. Didn’t know, sounds like a lot
The way he nonchalantly reacted to a fractured hand seems like the reaction of someone who's been there multiple times lol
He seemed very frustrated to me looking at his face, and subdued. Definitely not "nonchalant" IMO.
Woo yeah!
Maybe “broken hand” just means that one of the screws from a prior surgery got loosened, just needs a tighten up and some loctite?
Wow -I have some screws loose too -maybe surgery can help!
I hadn't thought of this, but that sounds reasonable! I definitely assumed at least 8 weeks, so this is a LOT better news lol
This Warriors team has a chance to win it all. Why? Because they have a top 5 guy and a bunch of guys who know basketball.
They have been up big against strong opponents all year. They have been in almost every game!
And they have done all of that with coaches making life hard on the players by randomly playing lineups with no rhyme or reason (at least the reasons they give for the choices sound mostly ridiculous after the fact, and certainly aren’t based on effectiveness or cohesion.)
Once the coaches stop throwing wrenches in the gears and put together purposeful lineups for the stretch run, this team will be able to beat anybody but the Lakers (because of Curry’s deal with the devil) in the playoffs.
The Lakers curse is just a long prelude to when he drops 40 ppg on them in a Warriors sweep.
It’s the final jewel in the crown to cap an epic career. That and an inseason tournament banner of course.
I enjoyed the rewind technique repeatedly used in this E1P, explaining how we got into the situation shown.
I loved tone look at missed defensive assignments! I saw the Cade drive past JK in real time, and was disappointed in JK’s defense… but it’s never that simple. Really brings into question those “lowest FG% as nearest defender” stats… if you’re the one stuck nearest to the ball after a teammate blows a rotation or assignment, you’re getting tagged on some easy looks…
Concur! More of that please 🙏
1 year wedding anniversary youse guys. Headed to Cancun out of St Louis (shoutout Abaddon) anyways wanted to tell yall i have appreciated the interactions over the last year. Well in regards to my wife but also the convos on here.
Also been thinking alot about a trade and I want Zach Lavine. Contract is kinda onerous but its not my money but I think a lineup of Steph, Lavine, Wiggins, Dray, and TJd spaces decently. Then bring Klay, PodZ, Looney, off the bench. Flight boarding talk soon
Happy Anniversary! But, as someone that follows the Bulls somewhat, I agree with the folks below, hard pass on Zach.
Hope you have an amazing time!
This is a great day in general, Imma tellin you! Happy Anniversary!
Congratulations! What a lovely way to celebrate!
Congratulations! I will give you a shout-out as you pass through St Louis :). Enjoy Cancun!
1-2-3 Cancun!
(Congratulations!)
Lavine plays no defense and has consistently been a pronounced negative on the floor over his career (-4.8 on court, -3.5 net on-off, -7.2/-7.3 this season). And his contract is more than “kinda onerous” — it’s $43M, $46M, $49M for the next three seasons after this one. Possibly the worst current contract in the NBA.
Fortunately, I think there’s next to zero chance the Warriors even consider taking him on.
Happy anniversary, tho!!! ❤️ 🎉
Yep, I don't get the yearning for LaVine. If you factor in defense, Moody is already just about as good this season and he is 1/10th the price. In addition, for whatever reason, LaVine has been one of those guys that has trouble staying healthy.
Cariso would make sense
I think his defense is gone
It was never there
Hey EA. Fun as always. I don't think your suggestion that TJD should never switch/help when JK is guarding has been fairly evaluated. Sure, it didn't work in that one clip, but I'm not so sure they got the message. If JK was told that no one was going to help, he may have positioned himself differently.
Personally, I don't think ANY defender can stop most quality NBA scorers one on one and there should pretty much always be a help scheme BUT it's hard to do right and when done wrong, well, look at the layup by Cade you were talking about. It's one of the reasons the Warriors were so good at the height of their powers: because everyone knew how to play D TOGETHER and knew where to be and when to help (any combination of Klay, Dray, Iggy, Bogut, Barnes, KD when motivated, Sean, David West, Pachulia, McGee Barnes and a few others and even Steph though he wasn't so good one on one, knew how to play together and who should do what). I really think that is the thing that the youngsters have to learn the most and why JK sometimes gets pulled even though the one on one stuff looks good. It's also why TJD may not yet be ready to take over for Loon 100%.
Incidentally, while I basically agree and feel the same, I think it's interesting that fans are so attached to JK and were so ready to get rid of KOJ (but then I liked KOJ more than most and i was sorry his ego couldn't get out of his own way) when they are kind of similar ability players. I think the difference is attitude and willingness to learn and be part of the team, but maybe it's just high draft pick vs free agent ...
JK has shown way more playmaking ability than KOJ. JK knows he has teammates when he has the ball. It makes him valuable on O.
Good point that one play is the ultimate small sample size. And I was definitely being very casual with my words… there’s always a need for a help defense, so the question is how sensitive is the trigger to help, and TJD should rarely help JK because TJD has been giving up a bunch of free putbacks and dump off passes with overhelp. It’s kind of like the Draymond Rules: let him guard one-on-one and fight through screens.
There’s some old Dray quote I wish I’d saved about how JK is a special defender like Dray and it shouldn’t be that he fits into a defensive scheme, the scheme should fit around JK.
I was a big KOj fan in the sense that I felt he could capably back up Klay if he bought in to the team and stopped free-lancing and making low-BBIQ plays. And KOj said all the right things, but then, right after the trade deadline he said he didn't want to be put in a box, wanted to start, yada yada. To me that's a totally disrespectful move. He could have informed them privately that unless he starts, he's leaving, and then let them trade him. He was a free agent at the end of the year--why screw the team that let you keep starting after 1 for 90 from 3? JK is behaving EXACTLY the opposite. He and his people are letting the team know what he wants in time for the team to decide whether to trade him now or keep him. Think he deserves what he wants OR think he deserves NOTHING, you have to respect that he is not trying to harm the team. He is giving the team a chance to meet his requests, or move on in the least team-harming way. THAT'S maturity.
Given that starting lineups vs bench lineups are nothing more than fun but useless wastes of time due to the lack of hockey subs, I’d like to ask a different question. Which lineups would you like to see more of (mixing “starters” and “bench”).
For me, I’ve been a big fan of the Paul/Podz/Klay/Kuminga/Saric lineup every time it hits the floor. Just a blithering offensive lineup with Paul/Podz/Kuminga providing enough defense to be a very nice squad. Another lineup I’ve really liked (and one I’ve wanted starting for a bit) is the Paul/Curry/Klay/Kuminga/Looney lineup. Sure, they give up some size but Paul still being tough defensively, Kuminga’s elite athleticism and newfound dedication to rebounding, and Looney’s elite rebounding all help mitigate that.
Anywaaays, what are some of ur preferred lineups?
I find it weird that The Warriors and Kerr changed the league with "smallball" but it was Curry and a bunch of 6'6+" dudes.
Last few years Kerr's smallball lineups have gotten smaller and smaller. Ws weakside low man help defense has always been super aggressive but nowadays consistently having like Steph or CP3 be that low man really hurting the weakside defense, imo. Particularly with no true shot blocker on the floor.
Gimme Curry-Dray and a bunch of wings: Curry-Podz-Klay-JK-Dray. Can go longer armed with Moody or Wiggins over Podz, but hard to deny how much a positive impact Podz has had.
The whole small ball thing was overblown. Sure, when Dray plays center that makes it small ball but for many of the dynasty years we had, as you say, a bunch of 6'6"+ dudes plus bigs like Bogut, Zaza, and JaVale. For three years we had a 6'12" wing as well. What's small about that?
Podz and GP2 play big so it makes sense.
100% with this point. Hopefully Kerr gets that too. One of the coaches needs to get Kerr in the video room and go over his past vs present lineup choices.
Podz is a fine rebounder, and he's an energetic defender, but he doesn't play big compared to the long wings we've had over the dynasty years.
I don't know if it'll ever happen, but I'd like to see an all-D lineup every once in awhile. Something like Paul-GPII-Wiggins-Kuminga-Draymond. Could also include Moody and/or Looney depending on matchup. I think it'd be a tone setter to just smother the opponent's offense for a few minutes, and hope for transition buckets or drawn fouls to provide offense.
I'd go Podz for Paul -while WIggs and JK will make mistakes the group has the athleticism to make up for it.
Yes but Moody in for Wiggs or JK please much better off ball connector on D.
> Just a blithering offensive lineup
I think you mean "blistering". I am intrigued by what might be meant by a blithering offensive lineup though! I feel like it might apply to some of our lineups this year, particularly when we've managed to stake out a big lead...
Steph-Podz-Klay-JK-Loon is the starting lineup I want (and think might happen?) TJD could replace Loon, but I like Loon’s experience with other starting Cs and chemistry with Steph/Klay.
I like the idea of pairing Dray with Saric, for spacing. Podz-Klay-Moody-Dray-Saric might be my favorite non-Steph lineup.
Smallball: Steph-Klay-Moody-JK-Dray. With Dray at C, you want length at the 2-3-4.
I like Wiggs and think he’s been showing increasing signs of his old form, but is it telling that he’s not in any of my favorite lineups? Love his D, but it’s tough to be a positive player when you’re subpar-to-mediocre at passing, ballhandling, rebounding, and shooting. Unless and until I trust his three-ball again, I’m good with JK, Klay and/or Moody taking most of his minutes.
Wiggins on ball D against Murray was great in the Denver game which lured Kerr into keeping him on the floor, but everything else is so negative right now that it’s still not working as a whole for Wiggs.
Totally with you!
I would propose that starting a Steph Moody Klay JK Loon lineup would also make some sense with CP out.
Then Podz can come in at a stagger and get some point minutes as well. I don’t mind CoJo when healthy but don’t want to see him on the court too much.
And the Curry Moody pairing has been the best Steph D pairing on the court.
A Podz, Steph, Moody, Saric, TJD line up might also be fun. It’s the off ball awareness of Moody on D that Makes watching him so enjoyable for me and the loose ball aggression.
Paul will be out for awhile so we'll have to see if the bench can be as good as it was before against other benches or was it all due to his presence.
One of the big reasons I want Dray$ leading the bench.
One very important rumor with Siakim is that the Sixers are likely to offer him a max contract in fa so whichever team he gets traded to is very likely a rental. Which is why no teams willing to include much for him now including us.
I remember some article pointing out Morey using the “we’re going to sign him in free agency, so just accept our trade package” leverage
You know what makes me excited for the future of the Warriors? Paying a declining Siakam $300M over the next five years and losing the TPMLE basically forever.
And, have all of your picks move to the back of the first round.
That provision is the one I think is the killer of being over the 2nd apron. Not only can you not expect a good player to come your way via the draft, but as trade assets, they are essentially early 2nd round picks and worth very little.
I just don't see Siakim helping us much if Dray comes back and plays well. Not sure that lineups with Siakim are any better than ones with JK or Loon. It's kind of only if Dray can't reintegrate and stay on the floor that a trade for Siakim might help us, and even then I am not sure it's worth the rental cost unless it's very cheap (which I guess is a possibility if the rumors you mention have tanked his value to most teams enough)
What we lacked in the Den games was a 4 defender that couldn’t be bullied in the post. JK can be backed into the hoop from the 3 point line in less than 3 seconds. Denver killed him on that. A lineup where Curry is the only guy you have to hide on pre switches would be useful.
That being said:
Don’t do it Dubs!!!!
Can addition of Dray make Wiggs-JK pairing more effective? Steph-Klay-Wiggs-JK-Dray line up is -3.7 in 25 min played this season.
O=109.3 D=113.0 N=-3.7 (that's a really bad Ortg and reasonable Dtrg).
During that stretch of games, Klay and Wiggs were playing like crap on offensive end. JK was probably playing with sword hanging over his head. With both of that changed, I wonder if and how that lineup especially it's offensive numbers will be better. Kerr/MDJ would want to give the pairing/line up a decent runway before pulling the plug on one of JK or Wiggs.
This season: 27 minutes, -6.6 net rating
Last season: 60 minutes, -14.8 net rating
Two seasons ago: 67 minutes, -4.2 net rating
I'm thinking we will make a smaller deal including Cp3, maybe Moody and or picks. Gordon Hayward? Bogdan? Could be someone no one thought of also.
I’m a hard no on losing Moody for a partially washed rental like Bojan or Hayward.
Someone on the other site mentioned Wiggs for Schröder and Boucher, which I found mildly interesting if CP is done for the season or shipped off in another deal. Schröder brings needed playmaking and offensive juice off the bench (plus some defensive grit); Boucher brings occasional rim protection off the bench; and the departure of Wiggs frees up minutes for Kuminga and Moody to spread their wings.
Not sure why the Raps do it, tho, beyond the “Wiggs is from Toronto” thing. Might need to throw in a pick or something to make Masai consider it.
I thought you don't like Schroder? (As a player).
No Bojan, but what about Bogdon?
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bogdabo01.html
No Bojan, Bogdan, or Brogdon, lol.
Not at the price of Moody, anyway. I like things about all of them, and might consider any of them for CP3 or Wiggins.
Bojack Horseman?
I've also seem Wiggins or Cp3 for a combo of Brogdon and Thybulle which is intriguing, but might be harder to deal with Portland because they own our pick.
That is the first trade I've seen that makes sense for the Warriors and is sort of realistic (maybe because I'd already zeroed in on Brogdon as a player that might fit well here in the bench PG role so I might be biased :D). Not sure how Portland would feel about it though ...
I love the thought of Thybulle on the floor with Draymond, as long as Thybulle's 3PT% isn't a mirage. Also, having Thybulle would make it more likely that GP3 gets shipped out this offseason, given his contract and lack of availability this season.
Yeah, GP2 and Thybulle overlap too much. Irrationally, I'd rather have a healthy GP2, but starting to doubt that's an option.
Better to have both when healthy than neither when GP2 is hirt
If they do it, it just shows the Dubs need someone like Jerry West to give some perspective. The odds of a title this year are moderate. Making a trade to get a rotation piece pretty much shuts the door on a title this year. Why be so foolish? Is it doing something just to be doing something?
My thing is what does Curry want? If the fo doesn't think we have a chance this year or next, then they should let Curry know. Does he want us to make trades to give him a chance? Or is he okay with just playing it out with Dray/Klay while we're a middling team. I think we owe it to him to try, foolish or not.
The problem is that the data show that mid-season trades of rotation players result in a title EXTREMELY rarely. So the whole premise of "Go All In" is mistaken. SO, it really comes down to this:
1--Make a trade, which basically punts this year?
2--Make no trade, but alter roles and PT to get TODAY'S best players on the floor?
3--Make trade/don't make trade, but assign PT based on 2016 performances?
In my view, #2 is the only chance Steph has at getting a title this year. And, #2 has the important ancillary benefit of being cheap and helpful to the future as well. Options 1 and 3 are just doing something to do something (#1) or for nostalgia (#3). Just remember--Steph and Dray preferred Avery Bradley over GPII. Had they prevailed, pretty sure they would not have gotten ring #4.
How about making a trade to enhance the chance of #2 occurring ?
Gambling that Wiggins will regain change of scenery/contract year championship form seems like banking on hitting the lottery. Removing that option from the roster through trade might be the most likely path to #2.
I think Kerr is slowly pointing the ship toward option 2. He’s been reducing the roles of Wiggins and Looney. After “the talk” with Klay and that he’s been on the bench during some high leverage situations, I’m even more convinced.
I REALLY hope Draymond is on board with different lineups. I know they like to pair him with Steph, but his flexibility would allow some very interesting lineups.
I would not want to trade Jonathan Kuminga after the Warriors have invested the past three years in his development. Everyone knew he was young and inexperienced when drafted. He has grown.
I hope the team and player have the patience to realize the fruits of his first three years on a championship team with a few more years moving forward.
Option 1) Play him and pay him
Option 2) trade him
Option 3) poole him
Better to trade him before paying him if you’re not going to make him a core player