Last night, Dub Nation was wracked with the pangs of nostalgia as three NBA developments reminded them of their past, present, and future. Here’s the three different events involving Golden State wings that kept the Warriors and their fans buzzing.
Curry and KD remind us that there’s no hard feelings
The Warriors got beatdown 129-88 in their lone trip to Brooklyn last night. It was a perfunctory waxing fueled by Brooklyn’s sharp play and a Warriors lineup comprised of D’Angelo Russell, Draymond Green, Kevon Looney, and hella youngsters still wet behind the ears.
Yet there was a tender moment after the loss that penetrated through the deep scar tissue covering Warriors’ fans hearts. Former Warrior Kevin Durant affectionately approached his former Golden State teammates and coaching staff after the game, sharing an extended embrace with his former Splash Cousin, Stephen Curry.
Watching that opened up the floodgates of memories:
Durant shocking the world and announcing he was coming to the Warriors July 4th, 2016
The Warriors players being booed by American fans during Team USA practices for KD’s decision
The Dubs destroying Oklahoma City for the cupcakes mascot while KD was hurt
The 16-1 playoff record in 2017 as the “Hamptons 5” lineup was unleashed
KD helping the Warriors break Houston’s spine and ending Cavaliers basketball
Durant winning Finals MVP’s twice while Curry giddily cheered him on
Talk shows and NBA Twitter discussing KD’s allegedly distantly demeanor EVERY DAY
Draymond screaming at KD about his commitment to the team’s future and revealing a fracture in the team
KD’s brilliant final GSW postseason run being derailed by horrific calf/Achilles injuries
The completely stupid “are the Warriors better with/without KD?” narrative
His departure forcing the Warriors to make tough financial decisions about their future
I could go on and on about the massive impact Durant had on the franchise and the league during his three seasons with the team. He made the squad unbeatable when healthy.
When KD left, a huge contingent of Dub Nation responded with, “Wow being a part of the greatest team ever wasn’t enough for you? Aiite, it’s all good bro, hope you find happiness in Brooklyn, we’re good over here”. (Check the comments from GSoM here)
Underlying all of that is the pain that the Bay Area (particularly Oakland) fans have felt as as great players (like Chris Webber and Randy Moss) and franchises (Raiders and Warriors) have left the 510 despite the fanatical support.
These fans have learned to love hard while resigning themselves to how quickly it all can end.
So, with all that history in mind, watching Curry embrace Durant like a long lost brother activated all the feels. Seeing the two injured legends chat it up in suits made me wistfully remember when they shared the same jersey, and I look forward to the day when both of their jerseys hang in the rafters in Chase Center.
KD, we ain’t mad atcha! Heal up soon!
The Warriors lost two great friends at the trade deadline
I wrote this following the Warriors’ win Monday:
Last night’s scoring binge was a team effort with six Dubs scoring in double-figures. They were led by reserve Alec Burks (30 points on 9-of-17 shooting, 5-of-10 from downtown) and starter Glenn Robinson III (22 points on 8-of-13 shooting, 2-of-4 from deep).
With the trade deadline looming in two days, there’s a strong chance that both of those guys could be moved to a contender thirsty for a helpful piece. It’s bittersweet watching those guys ball out knowing full well that each bucket they score is only making them look more appealing to other GM’s.
Right before last night’s game started, word circulated that Burks and GRIII were being held out of the game to protect them for a pending trade. After the blowout, the reports came in that they were indeed going to Philadelphia. Coach Steve Kerr described them as beloved elder statesmen whose absences severely affected the team last night.
These two guys grew on Dub Nation throughout the season with their heart and legit 3-and-D skillsets. There were several games where I thought to myself, “Damn if we had one of these guys last year in the Finals when KD and Klay went down, we’d have a threepeat”.
I’m glad that they’re getting a chance to play for a contender, and they will be missed.
Iguodala: Welcome to Miami
Okay so the KD reunion and the trade of two beloved hoopers already had me feeling a bit wistful and contemplative.
And then the bombshell drops that Warriors legend Andre Iguodala had been liberated from his exile to Memphis, and is now joining a suddenly terrifying Miami Heat squad. WOW!
The long running subplot for GSW fans this year season was that Iguodala would probably sit out the season after being shipped out in the financial fallout of the KD trade. Then, the former Finals MVP would return back to the Dubs next year and kickstart the next phase of the dynasty. There was too much “evidence” to discount the thought as a pipe dream.
Then you add Curry coming to Iguodala’s defense when those young jabronis from Memphis started talking reckless about hall-of-famers.
It just made too much sense for Iguodala’s return to the franchise that defined his career.
And that’s then the mystical hoops sorcerer Pat Riley swooped in with a godfather offer to get Iguodala to South Beach. Pretty ideal scenario for ‘Dre though, amirite? Good weather, a young contender, and the chance to create a hellacious defense along with Jimmy Butler and Bam Adebayo.
Even though it didn’t work out in the Warriors favor, it’s pretty cool to see Iguodala to keep polishing that awesome basketball resume in an ideal situation.
All I know is that Kerr has to play him in coming weeks. Excluding Ky, we now have 10 players out of which Steph and Klay are not playing. So till the we get some more players - (in two weeks?), we are gonna get Smiley show.
Lowest value contract in NBA in Wiggins may not be worst contract for Warriors. Overall, it may end up saving them money.
If the only way for Dubs to off-load Evans+Spellman (and thus avoid repeater tax season) was to do this deal with Minn, the saved money in repeater tax more than makes up for the money that is being overpaid to Wiggins.
So "Lowest value" contract in isolation is no longer so if you offset it with saved repeater tax.
Of course this assumes that only Minn was ready to take Evans+Spellman w/o Dubs including a decent pick/Loon to it. Dubs don't want to loose picks anymore and want to keep Loon.
My point is that we can't call Lacob cheap because he made a move to go under LT (to save repeater next two years) while saying he paid too much for Wiggins. May be they are related.
My co-worker, a rabid hoops/Knicks fan but more an old-school fan than a hoops-blogger type, just sent me this note: "I think that trade is GREAT for Golden State!.....you guys badly needed a slasher!"
He's missing about eight zillion nuances, obviously, but sometimes it's best not to overthink things?
Earlier this season I was super hot on the Blazers dealing CJ McCollum for Wiggins — thought it'd be a great deal for both sides. I've also called DLo a younger, longer, better passing version of McCollum.
I thought DLo's far superior youth and passing skills — plus significantly cheaper contract — made him a *much* more valuable asset than CJ, so I wish we could done better. But I guess where that's the top 10 draft pick comes in.
Watching Athletic Alchemy's video. He thinks that the reason why the Warriors got Andrew Wiggins in the trade is because Wiggins has the potential to be a good player but needs the right environment to do it. The FO also believes that if they could turn Chriss from a bad player to a decent player, they could do the same thing for Wiggins.
I'm less sold on that part of it — Wiggins has had 5.5 seasons to flash signs of being a good player, and has mostly failed to do so. My best guess is that Plan A is still to move him this summer; but in the event no deals materialize and they're left holding the bag, at least a 1-4 of Curry-Thompson-Wiggins-Green makes some *structural* sense that Curry-DLo-Klay does not.
I think the offensive side is a realistic reclamation project. Will we make him really worth all that money? Probably not. But can we make him a useful offensive player? Absolutely.
The question is what can we do about his defense. If he can really take a big jump defensively to say, a bit below average but not a liability, that might actually be worthwhile. Is that realistic? I'm not sure.
What can the Warriors get for Wiggins, a top 5 2020 pick, a probable 2021 lottery pick (we need to be rooting for Russell to suck badly with the Wolves so that GMs begin to see the 2021 pick as higher lottery), and I guess a few seconds? Presumably it would have to be a bad team who would be willing to absorb the Wiggins contracts for the picks?
Also, is there any way to keep the comments in some sort of chronological order according to when the original comment was made and not when the latest reply was made?
Maybe not the be-all, but Beal. I'd think we could hold back a few of the picks, too, assuming he's as disgruntled in DC as he appears to be.
As long as we're limiting the possibilities players recently seen passionately snogging with Steph post-game, Durant also works in the trade machine. :-)
I think he'll be significantly tougher to move than DLo. Russell is younger, quite a bit better, and cheaper. But yeah we now have another draft pick to attach to him to move him. I do see some sense in "here's two good draft picks and a matching salary for your star player that wants out"...
Yep, me too. Did you see the Jeremy Woo's SI breakdown? I thought he pretty well nailed it: "This deal is probably better read as a move that positions the Warriors to bid seriously on a fourth star-caliber player, rather than as a firm commitment to Wiggins as part of their future."
Well, this move should at least help us continue losing a lot of games this year. Of next year's prospects, who looks to be a future defensive stud? Is it Wiseman or bust?
Ok, second reaction, that's a pretty valuable pick where we didn't have one. That plus this year. Plus we get below the tax and now we can be more active in free agency. Evans was an anchor, Spellman was probably not the answer. Maybe they feel like they can get Wiggins to play off ball and defense? I don't know why they'd think that, but maybe they do? Because if we have to dump him again, I don't know if this deal can be made sense of, with that contract.
Second Reaction: Wiggins fits us better with his position, and he gets some stability for once, and he's not going to be a primary option. We also get their First round pick from 2021 which is a DOUBLE DRAFT (i.e. the first year that high schoolers are eligible in the NBA draft again), so there's potential there. Also slides under the repeater tax line, which helps us in the future again.
I am not as dismayed over all that has occurred over the past 24+ hrs on the GSW trade front.
I really did like DLo, and also would have liked to see him play with Steph and Klay and Dray, but I don't hate Wiggins, at least not offensively, but his volume and shot selection will have to be regulated in the Dubs offense. Defensively, he might improve (and even learn a few things) under the tutelage of Ron Adams. My call: DLO for Wiggins a wash, and the possibility of another high #1 pick for Spellman and Evans doesn't trouble me either. I didn't think Evans was going to cut it as a rotational piece, and while I did like him (and Spellman), I like much better the idea of pro-rated full contracts for Ky and Queese, with additional hope that Smiley will likely see some more of an extended look with the big club, and I think the Dubs should definitely try and see if there is some way Juan Toscano-Anderson can be brought up to the big club.
I'm just going to add one more sentiment here...perhaps sappy, but whatevs. Ha!
With the roster turnaround of acquired players this season (WCS, DLo, GR III, Burks and Spellman), there is some argument to be made that ALL of those players improved in their short time with the Warriors, allowing the club the flexibility to then move them for whatever value they have brought. Moving them creates the current open roster spots, which allows the Warriors to truly keep it in the 'family' if they so choose (meaning that players already in the 'system' like Queese, Ky, Juan T-A, Smiley, et al. who may actually be in the clubs' long-term plans will play/work more this season to be ready for next and beyond.
So, I did a little more digging, and it seems like Wiggins makes more money than Russell this year, next year, and every year thereafter on his contract. So this trade doesn't make any sense in terms of getting under the cap, either.
Giving Spellman and Evans away for picks doesn't really do much, either, because they were on cheap rookie-scale deals anyway, and you have to replace them to have a full roster.
So I guess this really comes down to... the Warriors front office believes Wiggins can live up to his potential in SF, and if not, at least they have picks in the double draft? Feels like a bad gamble to me.
Wiggins, a Lottery first, and probably a favorable second
For D'Lo, Iguodala, Evans, and two seconds
I could probably break this down further into failed draft picks etc etc. It took a long journey to get to this point. and I'm not gonna try to mental gymnastics this whole deal (which I think we ended with negative value)
I will say that the one thing I have full faith in this FO/Coaching staff is in reclamation projects. The trade itself for a reclamation project obviously sucks for us. I will NOT refrain from the awfulness as presently constructed but I give myself this one out that IF he is bound to live up to the hype, it would be here in Golden State
If you don't like the DLo-Curry pairing, I think you can make make an argument for a mild value upgrade.
Iguodala was gone anyway. If people were willing to pay him $15m for next year, he wasn't coming back here. So we gave up two picks (the 2024 first, and the pick that has become a 2025 second). Spellman was the only player who was going to be on our team (maybe) in 2021. Evans is in the process of washing out of the league.
So 2024 first (Iguodala trade tax), 2025 second (DLo trade tax), plus Spellman for Wiggins, 2021 first, 2022 second.
That's a net upgrade to our 2020-2021 and 2022 squads.
It's strange to me that the big picture of the deal works out so positively when I really don't like this step of it. I feel like we didn't get value for DLo.
Don't forget the 17 mil trade exception when counting assets in return. Now that GS is out from under the repeater tax, it seems much more likely to be used.
yeah, which I think is possibly a major factor in the DLo move. Now with the repeater avoided, they can be just mildly less concerned about taking on salary
Yeah, but the Warriors weren't contending this year, even before Curry hurt his wrist. (The problem is that the supporting cast is just too young. Even good 20-year-players are net negatives unless they're all-time greats).
So the team didn't really hurt themselves by giving up Iguodala. (The first is already accounted for - it's replaced by the 2021 Minny first.).
Update on the Clippers-Knicks trade: It is actually a three-team trade. Clippers get Marcus Morris and Isaiah Thomas. Wizards get Jerome Robinson. Knicks get Mo Harkless and a 2020-1st round draft pick.
Perhaps the "master plan" is that this move gets them below the tax, and that they will be able to package Wiggins and that 2021 pick this summer for whatever Russell was going to net in a trade while also having more flexibility since they got under the tax line.
I dunno though, I'm not sure why any team would trade for Wiggins (or why the Warriors did). And I'm not sure why they had to give up their best prospect (imo) in Spellman, a 22 year old stretch 5, instead of someone like Poole.
Seeing Eric Gordon and Nick Young on that list makes me wonder. Why don't the Rockets pick up Nick Young? Seems like he'd be a perfect fit for their system. He LOVES to stand around ballwatching and then make catch-and-shoot threes at a good rate.
@Sleepy - if you're out there, well, Wiggins fixes our defensive "size" issues we had with Russell, but our previous argument is now completely moot as now it's 100% about lack of ability/effort and whatever else it is that makes Wiggins so, so, so very bad on D.
Drummond is the best rebounder in the NBA, but he's never accepted what his offensive role "should" be nor ever put nearly enough effort into D, and...well, that's why he's being traded for Brandon Knight, John Henson and a 2nd rounder...
TBH Wiggins has been with a trash franchise his whole career and has been misused as a 1st/2nd option and a ball dominant wing. He has gotten better at creating for others in recent seasons. I can't see why he wouldn't fit in well with a full-strength Warriors roster.
His contract though, is an albatross. Maybe we can package this year's draft pick plus Wiggins for Beal?
I dunno, If you put him in a lineup with Klay, Draymond and Looney we are probably decent enough defensively to be a net positive. The TWolves are garbage defensively. I think that he can fit into a team defensive scheme ok. He's not James Harden. Draymond is gonna cuss him out for sure though so we'll see if he can handle that.
I'd also add if you haven't noticed, we can't exactly sit here and talk about our team defense as if it's a positive. Our D is terrible, actually worse than the Wolves D by a solid amount, and Steph and Klay aren't exactly going to turn that on it's head with their return.
What does this do cap wise? I have to say, maybe I am softening on my Wiggins is a bum platform. The guy is athletic and if his head is right is a decent player. His contract is horsecrap though...
Patrick Murray?! Doesn't he write for that fluff piece churner Forbes? What does he know? I'm on the Wiggins bandwagon, well I am hanging on the side, cable car style...
This might be the first move the Warriors have made since Meyers took over that I don't understand - like, I can not put myself inside his head and understand why it's possible to think this is a good move.
I completely agree. It looks like a move from a position of weakness, whereas the Warriors were in an amazing position. There was no need to do this. Why the hell did we max DLo if this was the plan?
Oh you will. Everyone already backpedaling on social media from Giannis to Simmons/Embiid to KAT to keeping Russell to getting a bounty of draft picks for Wiggins to this.
Even without Wiggins, they don't have enough cap room to add a large contract.
Also worth pointing out that they gave a first and a second to acquire DLo. (Our 2025 second and probably our 2024 first between the sign and trade and the Iguodala tax). So now we have Minny's 2021 first and a 2022 second. That's probably a slight upgrade (and certainly on a better timeline for us to maximize the value of Curry's 30s).
So I guess maybe Wiggins fills the Harrison Barnes Memorial (eventually) innings-eater role?
I can see this. His cutting to the basket is what excites me. I get I'm in the minority and possibly delusional, but I am on the whole, solidly, not totally pissed off with this.
Truthfully I never saw Dlo on this team when Draymond commented about his defense. That for me solidified that he was a short term rental.
I have tickets for the game against the Kings on the 10th and I'm now scared I'm going to catch the worst phase of the Draymond Getting Mad At Wiggins show live.
Only way I see this working out well for the dubs is if they can package Wiggins garbage contract with some of the picks we just got for a few solid role players from a team looking to rebuild... even then I'm not sure a starting 5 of Steph, klay, paschall/new guy, dray , loon/chriss/newguy is gonna cut it
The Wolves had to come off their 2021 pick, which is extra valuable because it is the "double draft" aka the first year where high schoolers can go straight to the NBA again.
I'm sure the Warriors can trade Wiggins again if they package him with the double draft pick.
But will they even want to? I have no confidence in them at the moment so who knows.
The one silver lining here is KAT/Russell is a horrific defensive combo so the Wolves will probably lose a lot of games and that 2021 pick could be extremely valuable.
...But, you know, the Warriors also have Andrew Wiggins on the roster for 30 million a year for three and a half seasons now.
I was holding out for Simmons in the summer, and now I have to settle for Wiggins in the winter?
The Dubs are heavily, heavily betting on 2021 being the double draft I guess with the MIN pick, the MIN 2nd rounder, and one of the other 2nd rounders also in that draft. And unfortunately, they won't have many assets this summer. They have a large TPE, which seldom get used. They have lost the chance of getting Andre. They now have a bottom 5 contract in the NBA, a 1st round pick in a weak draft, a Min future pick, and Paschall. I don't see how you can use that to improve.
Which means you're going all-in on Steph, Klay, Wiggins, Dray, Looney, and young 'uns. That's....not enough, unless you really, really believe in Wiggins. And I really, really don't. This is the first move Bob has made in years that I can't at least semi-defend.
So now what does next year look like: steph, klay, dray, wiggins, Chriss, Lee + ????? Not sure this can be turned into a contender with current assets but we'll see in the summer I suppose!
The key to me to becoming a legit contender again is on the defensive side of the ball. Yeah, I don't see where the top 10 D is going to come from with the projected personnel.
Man, the 49ers loss didn't bum me out nearly as much as their 2012 loss did, but now that loss combined with these Warriors moves really has me depressed....
DLo has way more value than a horrible contract on a decent player in Wiggins and a couple picks... I feel like the FO could have gotten a much better haul this summer. Now are we gonna try and trade Wiggins? Does anyone want him? I'm pretty confused at how you justify this move tbh...
It feels to me like the brass now understand they will make money as long as they keep the Splash Bros and are not about winning anymore. So, this is a count your dollars move.
I’m off the ledge and back into the building thanks to you and Sleepy Freud’s post. I’m in it for Curry’s joy of the game and even his joy on the bench.
I guess in theory I can talk myself into seeing the usefulness of Wiggins as a bench scorer. It's kind of like we just got a replacement for Alec Burks. But yeah, I can't talk myself into any scenario where he actually gets his defense where it needs to be to be an actual good player...
I think the best hope for him is that he's what I call an innings-eater. Guys like Harrison Barnes, David Lee, etc primarily help you win by stopping you from having to play really and players. They do some things well, other things poorly, but the idea is that the net is, okay, I can live with that over the course of a season.
The best case scenario is that Wiggins' solid cutting game gets him a lot of easy buckets, and his shooting improves with the better shots he gets surrounded by Curry and Klay, while his defense becomes something other than a dumpster fire.
The worst case scenario is that his best skill (scoring with near-average efficiency) is completely superfluous on a team with Curry and Klay and his defense drags everyone around him down.
That kid had better be smarter than he appears because he LOOKS like the mental opposite of what a Warrior should be! Not to mention he better be able to defend--Yoda has his work cut out for him. Goddamn, this is so shit! WHY NOT JUST WAIT!
I dunno, Evans wasn't much but he at least played defense and you could see his midrange potentially becoming a reliable shot. Another draft pick is just going to turn into someone who's a liability in their rookie year and maybe more. How old will Steph be when that happens?
Man, this sucks. Thought we could get at least 2 firsts with how bad Wiggins’ contract really is. Don’t want to be too reactionary, but man, Bob’s made a number of questionable moves now.
Smiley!! Smiley!! Smiley!!
All I know is that Kerr has to play him in coming weeks. Excluding Ky, we now have 10 players out of which Steph and Klay are not playing. So till the we get some more players - (in two weeks?), we are gonna get Smiley show.
That and Looney Looney Lonney!!
Lowest value contract in NBA in Wiggins may not be worst contract for Warriors. Overall, it may end up saving them money.
If the only way for Dubs to off-load Evans+Spellman (and thus avoid repeater tax season) was to do this deal with Minn, the saved money in repeater tax more than makes up for the money that is being overpaid to Wiggins.
So "Lowest value" contract in isolation is no longer so if you offset it with saved repeater tax.
Of course this assumes that only Minn was ready to take Evans+Spellman w/o Dubs including a decent pick/Loon to it. Dubs don't want to loose picks anymore and want to keep Loon.
My point is that we can't call Lacob cheap because he made a move to go under LT (to save repeater next two years) while saying he paid too much for Wiggins. May be they are related.
My co-worker, a rabid hoops/Knicks fan but more an old-school fan than a hoops-blogger type, just sent me this note: "I think that trade is GREAT for Golden State!.....you guys badly needed a slasher!"
He's missing about eight zillion nuances, obviously, but sometimes it's best not to overthink things?
Haha, he's right, let's make sure to bring Alec Burks back. :)
Lol, he said slasher, not ball-pounder. ;-P
Earlier this season I was super hot on the Blazers dealing CJ McCollum for Wiggins — thought it'd be a great deal for both sides. I've also called DLo a younger, longer, better passing version of McCollum.
I thought DLo's far superior youth and passing skills — plus significantly cheaper contract — made him a *much* more valuable asset than CJ, so I wish we could done better. But I guess where that's the top 10 draft pick comes in.
Watching Athletic Alchemy's video. He thinks that the reason why the Warriors got Andrew Wiggins in the trade is because Wiggins has the potential to be a good player but needs the right environment to do it. The FO also believes that if they could turn Chriss from a bad player to a decent player, they could do the same thing for Wiggins.
I'm less sold on that part of it — Wiggins has had 5.5 seasons to flash signs of being a good player, and has mostly failed to do so. My best guess is that Plan A is still to move him this summer; but in the event no deals materialize and they're left holding the bag, at least a 1-4 of Curry-Thompson-Wiggins-Green makes some *structural* sense that Curry-DLo-Klay does not.
Having you all here with me to groan, reel in shock, imagine great things... it’s been a comfort in this trying time. Thanks everyone.
I guess Warriors are hoping that whatever they did to make Chriss look like an NBA player they can do to Wiggins.
Still, Chriss is on a min/2-way contract, Wiggins is on a $30m/year contract.
yeah I had the same thought - only with Javale McGee.
A reclamation project is one thing, but a reclamation project on a max salary player? RISKY!
I think the offensive side is a realistic reclamation project. Will we make him really worth all that money? Probably not. But can we make him a useful offensive player? Absolutely.
The question is what can we do about his defense. If he can really take a big jump defensively to say, a bit below average but not a liability, that might actually be worthwhile. Is that realistic? I'm not sure.
Announce the Isaiah Thomas signing to the Warriors already, you Cowards!
Hoping this one might get a few of us off the ledge: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/2/4/21123496/andrew-wiggins-trade-golden-state-warriors-dangelo-russell
This one, too: https://www.si.com/nba/2020/02/06/nba-trade-deadline-dangelo-russell-andrew-wiggins-warriors-timberwolves-grades
Well, 7 foot wingspan at least...
What can the Warriors get for Wiggins, a top 5 2020 pick, a probable 2021 lottery pick (we need to be rooting for Russell to suck badly with the Wolves so that GMs begin to see the 2021 pick as higher lottery), and I guess a few seconds? Presumably it would have to be a bad team who would be willing to absorb the Wiggins contracts for the picks?
Also, is there any way to keep the comments in some sort of chronological order according to when the original comment was made and not when the latest reply was made?
Beal.
Maybe not the be-all, but Beal. I'd think we could hold back a few of the picks, too, assuming he's as disgruntled in DC as he appears to be.
As long as we're limiting the possibilities players recently seen passionately snogging with Steph post-game, Durant also works in the trade machine. :-)
KD snogging I live that. Hilarous.
I'd do that Wiggins for Beal trade in a heartbeat. Which probably means Washington shouldn't
I think we'll be stuck with Wiggins for a long, long time.
Eh, I kinda doubt it, unless we love him or something. I don't think he'll be significantly tougher to move than DLo.
I think he'll be significantly tougher to move than DLo. Russell is younger, quite a bit better, and cheaper. But yeah we now have another draft pick to attach to him to move him. I do see some sense in "here's two good draft picks and a matching salary for your star player that wants out"...
Yep, me too. Did you see the Jeremy Woo's SI breakdown? I thought he pretty well nailed it: "This deal is probably better read as a move that positions the Warriors to bid seriously on a fourth star-caliber player, rather than as a firm commitment to Wiggins as part of their future."
https://www.si.com/nba/2020/02/06/nba-trade-deadline-dangelo-russell-andrew-wiggins-warriors-timberwolves-grades
Didn't they say the same about Russell earlier in the year though?
... Especially with a (likely) top 10 pick in next year's draft stapled to him.
Well, this move should at least help us continue losing a lot of games this year. Of next year's prospects, who looks to be a future defensive stud? Is it Wiseman or bust?
Holy crap. What just happened. I'm speechless
Ok, second reaction, that's a pretty valuable pick where we didn't have one. That plus this year. Plus we get below the tax and now we can be more active in free agency. Evans was an anchor, Spellman was probably not the answer. Maybe they feel like they can get Wiggins to play off ball and defense? I don't know why they'd think that, but maybe they do? Because if we have to dump him again, I don't know if this deal can be made sense of, with that contract.
First Reaction: *Vomits*
Second Reaction: Wiggins fits us better with his position, and he gets some stability for once, and he's not going to be a primary option. We also get their First round pick from 2021 which is a DOUBLE DRAFT (i.e. the first year that high schoolers are eligible in the NBA draft again), so there's potential there. Also slides under the repeater tax line, which helps us in the future again.
I am not as dismayed over all that has occurred over the past 24+ hrs on the GSW trade front.
I really did like DLo, and also would have liked to see him play with Steph and Klay and Dray, but I don't hate Wiggins, at least not offensively, but his volume and shot selection will have to be regulated in the Dubs offense. Defensively, he might improve (and even learn a few things) under the tutelage of Ron Adams. My call: DLO for Wiggins a wash, and the possibility of another high #1 pick for Spellman and Evans doesn't trouble me either. I didn't think Evans was going to cut it as a rotational piece, and while I did like him (and Spellman), I like much better the idea of pro-rated full contracts for Ky and Queese, with additional hope that Smiley will likely see some more of an extended look with the big club, and I think the Dubs should definitely try and see if there is some way Juan Toscano-Anderson can be brought up to the big club.
I'm just going to add one more sentiment here...perhaps sappy, but whatevs. Ha!
With the roster turnaround of acquired players this season (WCS, DLo, GR III, Burks and Spellman), there is some argument to be made that ALL of those players improved in their short time with the Warriors, allowing the club the flexibility to then move them for whatever value they have brought. Moving them creates the current open roster spots, which allows the Warriors to truly keep it in the 'family' if they so choose (meaning that players already in the 'system' like Queese, Ky, Juan T-A, Smiley, et al. who may actually be in the clubs' long-term plans will play/work more this season to be ready for next and beyond.
We're not the only team who got worse after the trade.
-Heat got Iguodala, Crowder, and Hill for Winslow, Johnson, and Waiters.
-Pistons lost Drummond to the Cavaliers and got a couple of players and a 2nd round draft pick.
-Rockets lost Capela, Nene, and Gerald Green and got Jordan Bell and Robert Covington.
So, I did a little more digging, and it seems like Wiggins makes more money than Russell this year, next year, and every year thereafter on his contract. So this trade doesn't make any sense in terms of getting under the cap, either.
Giving Spellman and Evans away for picks doesn't really do much, either, because they were on cheap rookie-scale deals anyway, and you have to replace them to have a full roster.
So I guess this really comes down to... the Warriors front office believes Wiggins can live up to his potential in SF, and if not, at least they have picks in the double draft? Feels like a bad gamble to me.
It gets them under the luxury cap this year though and resets the tax repeater.
Which in a kinda important thing.
Wiggins, a Lottery first, and probably a favorable second
For D'Lo, Iguodala, Evans, and two seconds
I could probably break this down further into failed draft picks etc etc. It took a long journey to get to this point. and I'm not gonna try to mental gymnastics this whole deal (which I think we ended with negative value)
I will say that the one thing I have full faith in this FO/Coaching staff is in reclamation projects. The trade itself for a reclamation project obviously sucks for us. I will NOT refrain from the awfulness as presently constructed but I give myself this one out that IF he is bound to live up to the hype, it would be here in Golden State
If you don't like the DLo-Curry pairing, I think you can make make an argument for a mild value upgrade.
Iguodala was gone anyway. If people were willing to pay him $15m for next year, he wasn't coming back here. So we gave up two picks (the 2024 first, and the pick that has become a 2025 second). Spellman was the only player who was going to be on our team (maybe) in 2021. Evans is in the process of washing out of the league.
So 2024 first (Iguodala trade tax), 2025 second (DLo trade tax), plus Spellman for Wiggins, 2021 first, 2022 second.
That's a net upgrade to our 2020-2021 and 2022 squads.
It's strange to me that the big picture of the deal works out so positively when I really don't like this step of it. I feel like we didn't get value for DLo.
Don't forget the 17 mil trade exception when counting assets in return. Now that GS is out from under the repeater tax, it seems much more likely to be used.
well, unless Lacob pockets that and doesn't use it...
It's going to be hard to use in the best of circumstances, because they literally have one day before it expires.
yeah, which I think is possibly a major factor in the DLo move. Now with the repeater avoided, they can be just mildly less concerned about taking on salary
Iguodala was under team control one more year. We traded Iguodala and a first in order to absorb The newly minted contract of DLO.
Yeah, but the Warriors weren't contending this year, even before Curry hurt his wrist. (The problem is that the supporting cast is just too young. Even good 20-year-players are net negatives unless they're all-time greats).
So the team didn't really hurt themselves by giving up Iguodala. (The first is already accounted for - it's replaced by the 2021 Minny first.).
Hmm I'm not sure. I don't like the DLo-Curry pairing, but I also really don't like the Wiggins-Anyone pairing. :\
Same here.
Looking at the numbers now for an article this afternoon and let me tell you all... it is NOT pretty in here
Damn forgot that 2024 first 🙃
Clippers trade Mo Harkless and a 1st round draft pick to the Knicks for Marcus Morris.
Sixers trade James Ennis to the Magic for a 2nd round draft pick.
Update on the Clippers-Knicks trade: It is actually a three-team trade. Clippers get Marcus Morris and Isaiah Thomas. Wizards get Jerome Robinson. Knicks get Mo Harkless and a 2020-1st round draft pick.
538's third-closest comparison for Wiggins is... Glenn Robinson III. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-player-projections/andrew-wiggins/
Except, one of these guys is making the minimum and the other is making the max.
I sure hope the Warriors coaching staff can still work miracles...
There's some reason to think that Wiggins will be slightly better offensively in the Warriors system, which plays to his strengths.
As far as cap money goes, we're not adding a major piece until 2023 via free agency regardless, so ... I guess it doesn't matter. It's Joe's money.
Perhaps the "master plan" is that this move gets them below the tax, and that they will be able to package Wiggins and that 2021 pick this summer for whatever Russell was going to net in a trade while also having more flexibility since they got under the tax line.
I dunno though, I'm not sure why any team would trade for Wiggins (or why the Warriors did). And I'm not sure why they had to give up their best prospect (imo) in Spellman, a 22 year old stretch 5, instead of someone like Poole.
I never watched Wiggins. But does he play defense?
Seeing Eric Gordon and Nick Young on that list makes me wonder. Why don't the Rockets pick up Nick Young? Seems like he'd be a perfect fit for their system. He LOVES to stand around ballwatching and then make catch-and-shoot threes at a good rate.
@Sleepy - if you're out there, well, Wiggins fixes our defensive "size" issues we had with Russell, but our previous argument is now completely moot as now it's 100% about lack of ability/effort and whatever else it is that makes Wiggins so, so, so very bad on D.
WCS part 2 this is gonna be a long season
Wolves trade Gorgui Dieng to the Grizzlies for James Johnson.
Wizards trade Jordan McRae to the Nuggets for Shabazz Napier.
I really like DLo. Damn.
Also:
Clippers trying to get Marcus Morris from the Knicks.
Celtics trying to get David Bertans from the Wizards.
Wizards are trying to get Jerome Robinson from the Clippers.
Pistons trade Andre Drummond to the Cavaliers for Brandon Knight, John Henson, and a 2nd-round draft pick.
Drummond is the best rebounder in the NBA, but he's never accepted what his offensive role "should" be nor ever put nearly enough effort into D, and...well, that's why he's being traded for Brandon Knight, John Henson and a 2nd rounder...
TBH Wiggins has been with a trash franchise his whole career and has been misused as a 1st/2nd option and a ball dominant wing. He has gotten better at creating for others in recent seasons. I can't see why he wouldn't fit in well with a full-strength Warriors roster.
His contract though, is an albatross. Maybe we can package this year's draft pick plus Wiggins for Beal?
"I can't see why he wouldn't fit in well with a full-strength Warriors roster."
Mostly because he might be the single worst defensive wing in the entire NBA.
I dunno, If you put him in a lineup with Klay, Draymond and Looney we are probably decent enough defensively to be a net positive. The TWolves are garbage defensively. I think that he can fit into a team defensive scheme ok. He's not James Harden. Draymond is gonna cuss him out for sure though so we'll see if he can handle that.
He's part of the reason the TWolves are garbage defensively, though. And I honestly think I might take James Harden over him defensively.
I'd also add if you haven't noticed, we can't exactly sit here and talk about our team defense as if it's a positive. Our D is terrible, actually worse than the Wolves D by a solid amount, and Steph and Klay aren't exactly going to turn that on it's head with their return.
I hate this. The FO is acting like we weren't going to be a contender when Steph and Klay return. That's stupid. And Wiggins??? Really??? Fuh...
We weren't. It's highly possible this team a 500 with Splash
I would have much preferred to keep Dlo. Wiggins is trash.
Serious WTF moment.
What does this do cap wise? I have to say, maybe I am softening on my Wiggins is a bum platform. The guy is athletic and if his head is right is a decent player. His contract is horsecrap though...
Puts us just about 3 mil under.
our buddy Patrick Murray rated his as the worst contract in the NBA over the summer.
Patrick Murray?! Doesn't he write for that fluff piece churner Forbes? What does he know? I'm on the Wiggins bandwagon, well I am hanging on the side, cable car style...
This might be the first move the Warriors have made since Meyers took over that I don't understand - like, I can not put myself inside his head and understand why it's possible to think this is a good move.
I completely agree. It looks like a move from a position of weakness, whereas the Warriors were in an amazing position. There was no need to do this. Why the hell did we max DLo if this was the plan?
Oh you will. Everyone already backpedaling on social media from Giannis to Simmons/Embiid to KAT to keeping Russell to getting a bounty of draft picks for Wiggins to this.
Ducking the tax for one. That's probably the main motivation.
Then come back and dump Wiggins even if it costs a 1st round pick, combine it with trade exception and hope you can get a big name.
But yeah, on it's own? This was a disaster trade that makes the team worse in the near- and long term.
This got us about 3 mil under the cap so we can sign a bunch of 10 days to fill out the year.
And we have a 17 mil trade excepting that I'm sure will not sit idle before next season.
I didn't like giving up Spellman and getting Wiggings but I get why this was done.
Even without Wiggins, they don't have enough cap room to add a large contract.
Also worth pointing out that they gave a first and a second to acquire DLo. (Our 2025 second and probably our 2024 first between the sign and trade and the Iguodala tax). So now we have Minny's 2021 first and a 2022 second. That's probably a slight upgrade (and certainly on a better timeline for us to maximize the value of Curry's 30s).
So I guess maybe Wiggins fills the Harrison Barnes Memorial (eventually) innings-eater role?
Man, I've been feeling like the dubs held all the cards and that next season would be amazing. Now I just feel had.
I heard over the radio yesterday “NBA radio”
Don’t quote me on this:
Wiggins are better playing off-ball, cutting, jukes etc... that’s why, they think Wiggins will be a perfect fit, how the Warriors play!
I can see this. His cutting to the basket is what excites me. I get I'm in the minority and possibly delusional, but I am on the whole, solidly, not totally pissed off with this.
Truthfully I never saw Dlo on this team when Draymond commented about his defense. That for me solidified that he was a short term rental.
I have tickets for the game against the Kings on the 10th and I'm now scared I'm going to catch the worst phase of the Draymond Getting Mad At Wiggins show live.
Can we trade Wiggins for Greek Freak?
I Myers We Trust!
Today's wiggins vs. 2015 Harrison Barnes: thoughts?
Wiggins is worse and 2015 HB was still on a rookie scale deal.
At this point I will just assume that the Warriors are planning on selecting LaMelo Ball because that is the move that would enrage me the most.
I was even willing to tolerate this season for Covington, Teague, and Dieng. Wiggins is a step too far though.
Heard
Ignoring the salary aspect of NBA trades...would you trade Andrew Wiggins straight up for Austin Rivers? I would.
In a heartbeat.
Only way I see this working out well for the dubs is if they can package Wiggins garbage contract with some of the picks we just got for a few solid role players from a team looking to rebuild... even then I'm not sure a starting 5 of Steph, klay, paschall/new guy, dray , loon/chriss/newguy is gonna cut it
The Wolves had to come off their 2021 pick, which is extra valuable because it is the "double draft" aka the first year where high schoolers can go straight to the NBA again.
I'm sure the Warriors can trade Wiggins again if they package him with the double draft pick.
But will they even want to? I have no confidence in them at the moment so who knows.
The one silver lining here is KAT/Russell is a horrific defensive combo so the Wolves will probably lose a lot of games and that 2021 pick could be extremely valuable.
...But, you know, the Warriors also have Andrew Wiggins on the roster for 30 million a year for three and a half seasons now.
I was holding out for Simmons in the summer, and now I have to settle for Wiggins in the winter?
The Dubs are heavily, heavily betting on 2021 being the double draft I guess with the MIN pick, the MIN 2nd rounder, and one of the other 2nd rounders also in that draft. And unfortunately, they won't have many assets this summer. They have a large TPE, which seldom get used. They have lost the chance of getting Andre. They now have a bottom 5 contract in the NBA, a 1st round pick in a weak draft, a Min future pick, and Paschall. I don't see how you can use that to improve.
Which means you're going all-in on Steph, Klay, Wiggins, Dray, Looney, and young 'uns. That's....not enough, unless you really, really believe in Wiggins. And I really, really don't. This is the first move Bob has made in years that I can't at least semi-defend.
I don't see it as believing in Wiggins. I see it as him being serviceable. I'm going to put my trust in Steph, Klay, and Dray.
He seems less serviceable than Russell and it sounds like he makes more money per year after this one?
I like to see him in a role where he doesn't have such a high usage rate. Maybe with less responsibility, he can score at a more efficient rate.
Completely agree, unless it's all about $$$ and coming from upstairs but in either case it sucks
Yeah. The only way I could see this working is if there's some super secret knowledge someone has about unlocking Wiggins.
So now what does next year look like: steph, klay, dray, wiggins, Chriss, Lee + ????? Not sure this can be turned into a contender with current assets but we'll see in the summer I suppose!
Time to start looking at targets for that Iguodala TPE
The key to me to becoming a legit contender again is on the defensive side of the ball. Yeah, I don't see where the top 10 D is going to come from with the projected personnel.
+Looney
Man shits got me so rattled I'm forgetting Loon!
You also forgot the almighty Smiley our secret weapon but he's still a year away.
+paschanimal... my bad bro
r/warriors in meltdown mode.
Man, the 49ers loss didn't bum me out nearly as much as their 2012 loss did, but now that loss combined with these Warriors moves really has me depressed....
DLo has way more value than a horrible contract on a decent player in Wiggins and a couple picks... I feel like the FO could have gotten a much better haul this summer. Now are we gonna try and trade Wiggins? Does anyone want him? I'm pretty confused at how you justify this move tbh...
Pretty clear the ownership couldn't wait until the summer. They needed to stop the repeater tax.
Yeah we were stuck between a rock and a hard place, the only other option appeared to be trading Looney. I guess I'm glad he's still around?
that question mark reminds me of:
"I'm Ron Burgundy?"
Did the Warriors make the trade just to get under the repeater tax? Why couldn't we get good players in the deal?
That's the only thing that makes sense to me. It just feels like a horrible desperation move.
It feels to me like the brass now understand they will make money as long as they keep the Splash Bros and are not about winning anymore. So, this is a count your dollars move.
The Warriors have 8 players under contract right now.
I think right away Ky Bowman and Chriss are getting converted. That still leaves 3 more spots they need to fill.
we are trash.
Holy hell is this team going to be hard to watch
We should just shut down Draymond to preserve his sanity
Is there a reason to watch anymore?
Well, yeah, because I can't NOT watch!
I gotta see this. Going to give a run to those early 2000's teams as far as "hard to watch"
I’m off the ledge and back into the building thanks to you and Sleepy Freud’s post. I’m in it for Curry’s joy of the game and even his joy on the bench.
Curry and that's about it. Before March 1st, absolutely not.
Iiiiiiiitttttt'sssss SMILEY TIME!!!!!!
We are gonna welcome Curry back to playing by asking him to relive his rookie year again.
Myers, get Anthony Morrow on the phone!
Warriors gonna give Anthony Randolph a 10 day contract lol
All the Anthonys!
$27 mil per year for a guy who has never posted a positive RPM in 6 seasons!!
Don't forget he makes $33 mil the last year of his contract, yeesh
I guess in theory I can talk myself into seeing the usefulness of Wiggins as a bench scorer. It's kind of like we just got a replacement for Alec Burks. But yeah, I can't talk myself into any scenario where he actually gets his defense where it needs to be to be an actual good player...
I think the best hope for him is that he's what I call an innings-eater. Guys like Harrison Barnes, David Lee, etc primarily help you win by stopping you from having to play really and players. They do some things well, other things poorly, but the idea is that the net is, okay, I can live with that over the course of a season.
The best case scenario is that Wiggins' solid cutting game gets him a lot of easy buckets, and his shooting improves with the better shots he gets surrounded by Curry and Klay, while his defense becomes something other than a dumpster fire.
The worst case scenario is that his best skill (scoring with near-average efficiency) is completely superfluous on a team with Curry and Klay and his defense drags everyone around him down.
dude, I'm looking into him now for an article this afternoon. He's not good. : (
Is this true? I just see athleticism in the few times I have seen him play. Maybe it's wishful thinking but I am kind of ok with this.
Though, I did get bit by a poisonous spider 6 days ago and the venom is messing with my brain...
This really hurts. Why do I care about sports this much?
Oh, I know.
Heck, he's never even bested -1.0!
Excuse me while I go throw up. Seriously, I'd rather have GRIII. Like, by a huge margin.
WOJ BOMB! Wiggins to the Warriors for D'Lo!
April Fools .... right? Please someone tell me that this is a joke 😦
That kid had better be smarter than he appears because he LOOKS like the mental opposite of what a Warrior should be! Not to mention he better be able to defend--Yoda has his work cut out for him. Goddamn, this is so shit! WHY NOT JUST WAIT!
PLEASE please please...
D.Lo for Wiggins, 1 protected 1st and 1 2nd-round pick?!?
And Curry is still a month from returning. Which means Wiggins is gonna have ALLLLLLLLLLLL the shots. UNSTOPPABLE BABY!
Wiggins is terrible, what the heck.
At least Evans is gone...undid a tiny mistake with a flurry of even bigger mistakes though
I dunno, Evans wasn't much but he at least played defense and you could see his midrange potentially becoming a reliable shot. Another draft pick is just going to turn into someone who's a liability in their rookie year and maybe more. How old will Steph be when that happens?
Yeah I'd trade Wiggins back for Evans straight up.
I want to say that's ridiculous but I'd consider it if only for the flexibility...
Am I being ridiculous, though? It's hard to overemphasize how much Andrew Wiggins hurts his team's chances to win basketball games.
Either the Warriors FO seriously disagrees with you, or they are stupid. I desperately want to give them the benefit of the doubt here.
If some super secret defense hiding inside of Andrew Wiggins that none of us understand magically unlocks, I'll be ecstatic to admit how wrong I was.
Man, this sucks. Thought we could get at least 2 firsts with how bad Wiggins’ contract really is. Don’t want to be too reactionary, but man, Bob’s made a number of questionable moves now.
Nooooooo! Why are we giving away Spellman?! Why are we getting Wiggins?!
https://derpicdn.net/img/view/2013/11/27/483162.gif
Why Spellman