How much of Klay's behavior and escalation of Dray's behavior has to do with coming to realization or living with fear that this is beginning of the end (last chapter of fading stars)? I don't think they thought that way last year - atleast not till they lost the LA series.
Kerr's messages to each of them seems to be a long those lines.
the reffing was atrocious - 23-2 free throw discrepancy in the 4th quarter - the raptors coach took off on the reffing in his post-game. Where have we seen this same issue play out so many times - wait, wasnt it the playoffs last year!
We've had more disappointing losses than impressive wins. We were down in that same Celtics game by 17 in the 3rd, so it wasn't like it was a dominant win.
Okay, we blew out the Pels 130-102, and the Pels blew out Dallas (with Luka and Kyrie) 131-110. /thread
If it wasn’t clear, the point isn’t that the Warriors are awesome. It’s that “Team X beat Team Y, so why couldn’t we??” type of analysis is ridiculous.
It's the defense. Grizzlies currently have #7 defense in the league. Warriors defense is currently #20. You can't win games easily with a 20th-ranked defense.
I've been thinking about who my top players for entertainment value are and aren't. Meaning their style of play, not their off the court personas or even their effectiveness.
Entertainment all-stars. Whether super good or not, they entertain me: Luka, Kyrie, Giannis, Jokic, Tray, SGA, DeAaron Fox, Steph, Ja, Wemby, Chet, Jamal Murray, Donovan Mitchell
Unentertainment all-stars, minimally pretty good but no fun to watch: Kawhi, Harden, Embiid, KD, PG, Towns, LeBron, Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown.
Entertainment additions: Jordan Clarkson, Damian Lillard, Javale McGee. Actually like watching Kawhi navigate Paul Piercingly to get to his spots, and GP2 is everything I love about sports and it hurts my soul each time he is injured.
Doncic has moved to the other list for me for the number of times he pounds the air out of the ball, flops or blatantly travels*. In related news The "look, Giannis took one dribble from half-court!" videos that featured 2 steps, a carry, then 3 steps really soured me early on Giannis, but there are certainty entire games/press conferences that he is sublime.
*I chose not to write "when he Hardens" just in case I want to run for public office some day. But that's what I mean.
Entertainment: Steph, Fox, Bridges, Ja, GP2, Jokic, JJJ (the fouls always make it interesting), anyone who flies around the court without the ball and/or passes folks open, Heater Klay, Chet.
Hopefully Wemby some day soon.
Eye Pokers - Harden, Luka, Kawahi, Embiid, Tatum, Brown, Butler, Reaves, Anyone who throws their head back or falls for calls/ is reliant on refs for game.
Mostly it’s the key players on my team - then, next, I move to a non-threatening team and and enjoy the GAME more than an individual player - but I will drop everything for Steph!
HB's %s seems to be good but I heard he's also been a non factor?? I don't watch the Kings enough. I know he pulls a disappearing act a lot but judging from the stats he's still a serviceable player
Haven’t watched this year but it’s probably the same problem as has been his entire career. Will take good open shots when the ball swings to him but does nothing else unless plays are called for him.
He’s pretty much 6th option at best behind fox, sabonis, Murray, monk, Huerter
Have also seen kings fans say that hb was always the one to steady things if they’re lead was dwindling but he’s not doing it this year
@sol - maybe you can make sense of this nugget from tonight’s warriors round table - Kevin Dana and Gary St Jean. Apparently Dana saw a stat in the chronicle saying with Draymond the warriors defensive rating is 118.2 while without him the team has a better rating of 116.4. He has apparently one of the worst defensive ratings amongst players who have played at least one game in the NBA this season- absolutely not what anyone here would expect !
That comment is at the 6:08:30 mark here on 957 the game
The reason being that he’s been terrible? Start with .498 TS (.297 from 3). Throw in more turnovers than assists, mediocre rebounding, and by far the lowest steal/block rates of his career.
Nothing mysterious about why the scoreboard has raced in the wrong direction when he’s been on the floor.
I know 2 man net rtg isn’t the best tracker, but Wiggins is negative with every single player on the roster. Even CoJo is positive with a few non-garbage time folks including CP and Klay.
Kudos to Looney for having the least negative combo with Wiggins of the starters at -9.3.
Green unfortunately for his effectiveness has played the vast majority of his minutes with Wiggins. But Dray is also negative with every player other than the two min he played with TJD being infinitely positive.
A lot of the same themes in his podcast, but he expounds on some thoughts. One thing he noted is that there are people who whose careers are tied to the Warriors’ success and he put those people’s jobs in jeopardy and those people don’t make money like he and Kerr. (I’m assuming he’s talking about asst coaches, trainers, basketball operations staff and even back of the roster guys.
Like yesterday, I didn’t hear anything in this that makes me doubt his sincerity.
Sounds like someone at least got through to him enough for him to be able to articulate that his actions impact a LOT of people. Hopefully, he'll keep that in mind going forward, though honestly, how much permanent change can we expect in a few weeks?
very good indeed, but one of my biggest takeways was that when he suggested that he will have no trouble controlling his "antics". Although several here have mentioned he sounds like a really changed person, I am still not sure what he could have done in the last month that makes so confident that he could control it now - or did he always have the ability to control it but since he never paid a high price was Ok doing it!
One thing is for sure, Toronto won’t be able to get easy buckets from their bigs sealing the Lakers’ starting PG under the rim, cuz the Lakers only start PFs!
I mean he was plus 1 and had 4 points and 5 rebounds in 24 minutes. Scoring you can’t necessarily control, but you’ve gotta expect the 7-footer to be grabbing more boards.
No one expects Wiseman to rock the world anymore, expectations have been completely reset especially with him starting the season as the 4th-string big man and getting all those DNPs. But he is getting a bit more consistent minutes now, have moved ahead of Bagley in the rotation, and if you want to pick on his rebounding, his per-36 in December/January have actually upped to around ~10.5.
He may well not earn a new contract next season, will probably never be a starter let alone live up to his #2 pick, but I'm happy rooting for him as I do for most ex-Warriors. Heck, I still check on how McAdoo is doing in Japan.
Kerr quote on Draymond: "He needs to find some rhythm here over the next week or two."
Does that mean while playing, or they are thinking he'll need two weeks to ramp up? i know there are a lot of Dray doubters out there and on this site, but with no CP3 or GPII, we could really use Dray sooner than later and start winning more games than we lose.
Doing a bit of schedule gazing, he's not playing tomorrow anyway, and who knows what the Pels will look like and if Zion can play. After that, the Bulls, Bucks, and Grizz are all struggling, so maybe we can handle some/most of them without DG. Would be great to have a solid contribution from him for the Jazz game a week from tomorrow, or at least the Mavs on the 19th.
The Jazz game I believe marks the midway point of the season - would be great to get to 20-21 or even 21-20 by then.
Dray will not be waiting two weeks to play, so I have to assume this means he'll be "finding some rhythm over the next week or two" in NBA practices & games. I will suggest, even, that he will return tomorrow for a short stint off the bench. He's been around the team, back on the bench the last game, they had 2 full days off, it's the last opportunity to come back for a home game... but I could be wrong.
Yeah, that makes sense, I was just a bit surprised by the wording of the quote. I agree if it is just about conditioning, it seems like the GPII role of a microwave defensive stopper should be possible soon.
I’m still not interested in going for any trades (unless we’re really fleecing someone), but I think people are really underestimating the assets we have. The value Kuminga/Moody/Podz/TJD have on the market is up for debate, TJD likely has little but the rest are definitely interesting to teams. But our 2028 and 2030 warriors picks look reeeeaaally valuable. An expiring contract in CP3 (especially of that size) can be really valuable to the right team. Wiggins might not be playing up to his ability right now, but I bet a lot of teams would take the bet that its a short term slump for an all-star rather than him falling off a cliff. The Warriors can make few swings if they want.
My question is are we able to trade our 2026 pick? Because our 2024 pick is top 4 protected which blocks 2025, but I don't know if it also blocks 2026 until it converts.
It would only be restricted if we didn’t have control of our 2029 or 2031 pick. As long as we have those, I’m pretty sure we can trade the #1-20 part. Why wouldn’t we be able to? The Wiz don’t care if #1-20 belongs to us or some other team.
How much of Klay's behavior and escalation of Dray's behavior has to do with coming to realization or living with fear that this is beginning of the end (last chapter of fading stars)? I don't think they thought that way last year - atleast not till they lost the LA series.
Kerr's messages to each of them seems to be a long those lines.
Spo getting paid.
Kings out on Siakam.
Lakers about to beat this same Raptors that killed us.
Apparently we can't play this game
Davis is going crazy tonight. Raptors don't have Poeltl to deal with him.
Lakers also had 36 fts to Raptors 13.
the reffing was atrocious - 23-2 free throw discrepancy in the 4th quarter - the raptors coach took off on the reffing in his post-game. Where have we seen this same issue play out so many times - wait, wasnt it the playoffs last year!
When it came out the Lakers had like a 12% at playoffs. Everybody knew the refs would be getting more involved.
Grizz beat mavs away with both kyrie and Luka without ja or jjj and we can’t even make it competitive at home against only Luka
We’re really playing that game?
The Warriors beat the Celtics, who are by far the best team in the NBA this season.
/thread
We've had more disappointing losses than impressive wins. We were down in that same Celtics game by 17 in the 3rd, so it wasn't like it was a dominant win.
Okay, we blew out the Pels 130-102, and the Pels blew out Dallas (with Luka and Kyrie) 131-110. /thread
If it wasn’t clear, the point isn’t that the Warriors are awesome. It’s that “Team X beat Team Y, so why couldn’t we??” type of analysis is ridiculous.
we had that Nuggets game in the bag, just some ill-timed dumbness and a blatant missed call by the refs cost us the W
That’s been a lot of our losses the entire season
It's the defense. Grizzlies currently have #7 defense in the league. Warriors defense is currently #20. You can't win games easily with a 20th-ranked defense.
Reigning dpoy Jaren Jackson was out though
Oh? Guess the Mavs let their guard down.
Grizzlies bench outscored the Mavs bench 43-21 before garbage time. Not even Irving's 33 points and Luka's 31 points were enough to save the Mavs.
I've been thinking about who my top players for entertainment value are and aren't. Meaning their style of play, not their off the court personas or even their effectiveness.
Entertainment all-stars. Whether super good or not, they entertain me: Luka, Kyrie, Giannis, Jokic, Tray, SGA, DeAaron Fox, Steph, Ja, Wemby, Chet, Jamal Murray, Donovan Mitchell
Unentertainment all-stars, minimally pretty good but no fun to watch: Kawhi, Harden, Embiid, KD, PG, Towns, LeBron, Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown.
WHo are yours?
Entertainment additions: Jordan Clarkson, Damian Lillard, Javale McGee. Actually like watching Kawhi navigate Paul Piercingly to get to his spots, and GP2 is everything I love about sports and it hurts my soul each time he is injured.
Doncic has moved to the other list for me for the number of times he pounds the air out of the ball, flops or blatantly travels*. In related news The "look, Giannis took one dribble from half-court!" videos that featured 2 steps, a carry, then 3 steps really soured me early on Giannis, but there are certainty entire games/press conferences that he is sublime.
*I chose not to write "when he Hardens" just in case I want to run for public office some day. But that's what I mean.
I wonder if he’s Hardening right now?
I'm trying not to look.
Fun!
Entertainment: Steph, Fox, Bridges, Ja, GP2, Jokic, JJJ (the fouls always make it interesting), anyone who flies around the court without the ball and/or passes folks open, Heater Klay, Chet.
Hopefully Wemby some day soon.
Eye Pokers - Harden, Luka, Kawahi, Embiid, Tatum, Brown, Butler, Reaves, Anyone who throws their head back or falls for calls/ is reliant on refs for game.
Reaves is an outstanding call
I’d add Haliburton to the first list.
Jose Alvarado and GPII are up there for me. Poole was extremely entertaining for the 1.5 seasons where he was good.
I'd put Giannis in the second category. Bull rushing the basket gets boring.
Fox is probably my favorite non-Warrior. Love watching Maxey. Zion. Playoff Jimmy, even though it's objectively boring.
Mostly it’s the key players on my team - then, next, I move to a non-threatening team and and enjoy the GAME more than an individual player - but I will drop everything for Steph!
I actually like watching a bunch of the guys on your unentertainment list: Kawhi for his defense, KD for his grace, LeBron for his inevitability.
jumble all those guys up and reverse sort by free-throw rate, that's my answer, in order
I ❤️your style
right back atcha 😉
Memphis tearing Mavs a new one. No D in Dallas.
Allas!
Alas, they take an L
Strong work
Kings pull away, 131-110.
HB, JTA, JaVale, Davion, and Chris Duarte: 0 points combined.
That was a dream team of Warriors rooting fandom at different points throughout the last decade
HB's %s seems to be good but I heard he's also been a non factor?? I don't watch the Kings enough. I know he pulls a disappearing act a lot but judging from the stats he's still a serviceable player
Haven’t watched this year but it’s probably the same problem as has been his entire career. Will take good open shots when the ball swings to him but does nothing else unless plays are called for him.
He’s pretty much 6th option at best behind fox, sabonis, Murray, monk, Huerter
Have also seen kings fans say that hb was always the one to steady things if they’re lead was dwindling but he’s not doing it this year
serviceable is the operative word. Nowhere near all star or elite status.
No one thinks of HB as anywhere near all star or elite.
At this point I would happily take “serviceable” from Wiggins.
Sabonis: 37 points
Murray: 32
Fox: 26
Monk: 20
Bogdanovic: 26
Ivey: 22
Burks and Duren: 16 each
@sol - maybe you can make sense of this nugget from tonight’s warriors round table - Kevin Dana and Gary St Jean. Apparently Dana saw a stat in the chronicle saying with Draymond the warriors defensive rating is 118.2 while without him the team has a better rating of 116.4. He has apparently one of the worst defensive ratings amongst players who have played at least one game in the NBA this season- absolutely not what anyone here would expect !
That comment is at the 6:08:30 mark here on 957 the game
https://www.audacy.com/stations/957thegame/shows/the-game-at-night-c1dad/episodes/7b768c57642c?action=AUTOPLAY_FULL&actionContentId=101-897
Does the lineup include Wiggins as well? Wiggins has the worst +/- among the Warriors this season for some reason.
> for some reason.
The reason being that he’s been terrible? Start with .498 TS (.297 from 3). Throw in more turnovers than assists, mediocre rebounding, and by far the lowest steal/block rates of his career.
Nothing mysterious about why the scoreboard has raced in the wrong direction when he’s been on the floor.
I know 2 man net rtg isn’t the best tracker, but Wiggins is negative with every single player on the roster. Even CoJo is positive with a few non-garbage time folks including CP and Klay.
Kudos to Looney for having the least negative combo with Wiggins of the starters at -9.3.
Green unfortunately for his effectiveness has played the vast majority of his minutes with Wiggins. But Dray is also negative with every player other than the two min he played with TJD being infinitely positive.
I think he is in both sides of these numbers - but yes he could heavily skew the data
Net ratings in samples that small are not necessarily meaningful.
Small as in the 10 or so game he played vs the nearing 30 games he has not. Also there are some other interesting effects
- significant reduction in turn overs
- a reduction in the number of fouls we commit as a team
Not sure what it it - maybe just more playing time for younger more athletic players
Also a reduction in "Wiggins starts"...
I cannot access either the chronicle or Bay Area sports group - which was the other location Kevin Dana referenced
Pistons played well in the 1st and 3rd quarters, but poorly in the 2nd and 4th quarters.
Wiseman one of only two DET players with positive +/-
Draymond’s presser is a good listen: https://youtu.be/NwQkqR5M8x4?si=RrUMjfVcvti1Cc84
A lot of the same themes in his podcast, but he expounds on some thoughts. One thing he noted is that there are people who whose careers are tied to the Warriors’ success and he put those people’s jobs in jeopardy and those people don’t make money like he and Kerr. (I’m assuming he’s talking about asst coaches, trainers, basketball operations staff and even back of the roster guys.
Like yesterday, I didn’t hear anything in this that makes me doubt his sincerity.
Sounds like someone at least got through to him enough for him to be able to articulate that his actions impact a LOT of people. Hopefully, he'll keep that in mind going forward, though honestly, how much permanent change can we expect in a few weeks?
very good indeed, but one of my biggest takeways was that when he suggested that he will have no trouble controlling his "antics". Although several here have mentioned he sounds like a really changed person, I am still not sure what he could have done in the last month that makes so confident that he could control it now - or did he always have the ability to control it but since he never paid a high price was Ok doing it!
I think all of us who are hopeful are also saying, “Now let’s see it.”
That's pretty huge if he starts thinking and acting that way.
Don't hold your breath. This is all a narrative to make his situation somehow 'alright'.
How do you know that to be true?
self evident. Don't be naive.
“If we take man as he is, we make him worse,
but if we take him as he should be,
we make him capable of becoming what he can be.”
Pure bullshit.
Not gonna be happy if Toronto sucks against the Lakers tonight ...
One thing is for sure, Toronto won’t be able to get easy buckets from their bigs sealing the Lakers’ starting PG under the rim, cuz the Lakers only start PFs!
I'll be watching.........
Burks 10, Kings 0 to close the third quarter.
Burks going crazy to bring the Pistons back within 3, 98-95.
I wonder if a team has ever won a game in which they had a 41-7 run dropped on them.
Kings on a 41-7 run.
o_O
Sabonis, Murray, Fox, and Monk are playing super well tonight
All of them except Fox.
…
Okay, now Fox too, lol. Kings pull away in the end — too much firepower.
sounds like they put Wiseman in
Wiseman and Harris the only two Pistons with a + this game. He's improving, it's not just this game.
I mean he was plus 1 and had 4 points and 5 rebounds in 24 minutes. Scoring you can’t necessarily control, but you’ve gotta expect the 7-footer to be grabbing more boards.
No one expects Wiseman to rock the world anymore, expectations have been completely reset especially with him starting the season as the 4th-string big man and getting all those DNPs. But he is getting a bit more consistent minutes now, have moved ahead of Bagley in the rotation, and if you want to pick on his rebounding, his per-36 in December/January have actually upped to around ~10.5.
He may well not earn a new contract next season, will probably never be a starter let alone live up to his #2 pick, but I'm happy rooting for him as I do for most ex-Warriors. Heck, I still check on how McAdoo is doing in Japan.
Respect.
He’s actually only -6…
Pistons staying barely with reach, old friends Burks and JTA in, Joe Harris rising from the dead…
Kerr quote on Draymond: "He needs to find some rhythm here over the next week or two."
Does that mean while playing, or they are thinking he'll need two weeks to ramp up? i know there are a lot of Dray doubters out there and on this site, but with no CP3 or GPII, we could really use Dray sooner than later and start winning more games than we lose.
Doing a bit of schedule gazing, he's not playing tomorrow anyway, and who knows what the Pels will look like and if Zion can play. After that, the Bulls, Bucks, and Grizz are all struggling, so maybe we can handle some/most of them without DG. Would be great to have a solid contribution from him for the Jazz game a week from tomorrow, or at least the Mavs on the 19th.
The Jazz game I believe marks the midway point of the season - would be great to get to 20-21 or even 21-20 by then.
Dray will not be waiting two weeks to play, so I have to assume this means he'll be "finding some rhythm over the next week or two" in NBA practices & games. I will suggest, even, that he will return tomorrow for a short stint off the bench. He's been around the team, back on the bench the last game, they had 2 full days off, it's the last opportunity to come back for a home game... but I could be wrong.
Yeah, that makes sense, I was just a bit surprised by the wording of the quote. I agree if it is just about conditioning, it seems like the GPII role of a microwave defensive stopper should be possible soon.
I’m still not interested in going for any trades (unless we’re really fleecing someone), but I think people are really underestimating the assets we have. The value Kuminga/Moody/Podz/TJD have on the market is up for debate, TJD likely has little but the rest are definitely interesting to teams. But our 2028 and 2030 warriors picks look reeeeaaally valuable. An expiring contract in CP3 (especially of that size) can be really valuable to the right team. Wiggins might not be playing up to his ability right now, but I bet a lot of teams would take the bet that its a short term slump for an all-star rather than him falling off a cliff. The Warriors can make few swings if they want.
2030 already traded...
My question is are we able to trade our 2026 pick? Because our 2024 pick is top 4 protected which blocks 2025, but I don't know if it also blocks 2026 until it converts.
If it’s #1-20 it still belongs to us, right?
Honestly a hilarious level of protection, basically saying if it has any value it’s ours. If not i guess you can have it.
Oh really? When did that happen lol
It was protected on the Poole trade
The damn CP3 trade of course. In that case we still have some tantalizing pick swaps we can give out too.
We can still trade the #1-20 part of the 2030 pick if we choose. That’s the only part of it that will excite anyone, anyway.
Really? I thought the way protections work is we can only trade it if it conveys to us in 2030.
It would only be restricted if we didn’t have control of our 2029 or 2031 pick. As long as we have those, I’m pretty sure we can trade the #1-20 part. Why wouldn’t we be able to? The Wiz don’t care if #1-20 belongs to us or some other team.
We dumped JP on the Wizards and send them a protected 2030 pick (1-20 protected, per Sleepy)
Sleepy Wo-j