Dub Nation HQ Comments of Week, plus open thread
a little bit of everything
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A fantastic late-first-round pick
Sleepy Freud (16 ♡):
Fun stat o' the day. Last ten seasons (2012-13 to 2021-22):
Bullshit playoff wins in the bubble: Lakers 16, Warriors 0
Legit playoff wins not in the bubble: Warriors 102, Lakers 2
Asher B. (12 ♡):
In addition to everything else, Poole's success validates:
1. The prescience of new ownership immediately buying a D-League affiliate and placing it in the greater Bay Area. To have a place to play significant minutes against quality opposition yet not so good that all confidence is shot is absolutely crucial. Its proximity to the big club matters a great deal, too, allowing for easy back and forth. (This item sponsored by your local Santa Cruz resident)
2. The value of hard work, which in itself is a crucial element in drafting -- will a young player humble himself to go back and work on his craft, or sulk and flame out?
3. The value of fairly random good fortune. This could have gone the other way. Just because he succeeded does not mean he was fated to do so. There's a tautology to watching a team win and assuming they were destined to; when in fact the whole thing hangs on a ... pinky, sometimes.
Dear Kuminga, Wiseman, Moody, Baldwin, Rollins: take notes.
Goofus (11 ♡):
Tying another Poole-Wiggins discussion here to Jason Timpf’s video. (I’m assuming everyone has watched it now since I’m pretty sure there will be questions from it on Dilly’s mid-term.)
Timpf called Steph the “greatest offensive engine in the game”, rivaled only by prime Lebron in this era. While he’s not as great an individual scorer as someone like Durant, his overall presence creates more efficient scoring than anyone else in the league through his own scoring, gravity, off all movement and ability to create favorable situations for the rest of the team. I love this definition and think it explains what Poole means to the team. He’s the ONLY offensive engine the Warriors have when Steph isn’t on the floor and arguably the only one they’ve had during Steph’s career.
To me, this sums up why Poole is the guy to keep if it comes down to choosing.
Hashemite Kingdom (10 ♡):
I suppose since I'm representing the Hashemite Kingdom, I should post something.
Like many of us here, I was not thrilled with the draft choice - proving again I'm not as smart as BobGod.
I've told the story of going to watch the Warriors in 2019 (our first game at Chase), watching Poole throw up brick after brick after brick, and thought "this guy's never going to amount to anything."
I rolled my eyes when he went down to G-League in the 2020-2021 season and thought it was the end of us and Jordan.
I was surprised when he finished off 2021 the way he did.
I was astonished when the shots started going in in preseason last year. I couldn't believe what I was seeing.
Then I read a story about Poole's upbringing and his experiences at La Lumiere High and U of M that helped me better understand his team-first, hard working, high IQ mindset, and I established myself here in the Kingdom.
I was thrilled by his performance in the playoffs. Just ballsy. I love it that he looks up to and learns from Steph and Klay and his other teammates. (But especially Steph.)
It's hard for me to project what Jordan might turn into because his rise has been so unexpected. I'm just thrilled to be able to sit back and watch it all happen before my eyes. With so many great stories on the Warriors last season - Klay's return, the stellar play of GP II, Steph's downs and ups, the general lack of respect - the rise of Jordan Poole was my favorite story of all of them.
Alas Phood Fight (9 ♡):
What led FO to Poole? I think a big factor was his confidence. Both Patrick McCaw and Jacob Evens were very hesitant to shoot. A coach would rather a player shoot and miss the open shot than not take it at all. I think there was a little built up frustration with Staff/FO and Poole was unconscious. Even if he flamed out of the league, it wouldn't have been for not taking his shots. After weighing his skills against others in the draft, I believe it was Poole's unbridled self-confidence that tipped the scales on draft day.
Poole's big life decision is on the horizon. He can go for a big payday and spread his wings, be a starter and potential leader of his own team or just end up being the next Harrison Barnes, a great player who no one will ever talk about except when referencing his first years with the Warriors. On the other hand, if he can live with being the likely 6th Man of the Year Award winner for the next 4 years, if he is willing to back up the best back court duo the NBA has ever seen a little while longer, he will be the heir to the throne of Curry. And he is the only one who could follow Curry and be wholly embraced by Dub Nation, because he is one of our own. And he will get paid.
This won't be like Andre coming off the bench. This will be an epic team-first personal sacrifice given the length of time for the personal payoff. It would be a bold move and one that would engender even greater devotion from Dub Nation.
Starting point guard for the Orlando Magic? Or Heir to the Throne of a Dynasty Franchise? And if he ever wins a Chip once the core is gone, he will be a legend. Or he can plan his vacations to Disney World every May.
Goldarn Staid Worrier (9 ♡):
Poole is so clearly a winner, a thrill to watch, and brings so many more of the traits that fans love to an already crowded table of virtues - hard work, team plus ethos, generosity on and off the court, and crazy unrestrained crazy celebration faces.
Poole has spoiled us with his hard work and commitment to improvement. So now I expect more. I’d like to see him attack with a little more control, improve his defense (obvious) and grow his already slick passing skills. And get bigger and stronger. Bonus points for growing another inch in height and two in reach!
I’m also how curious how the FO decided to draft Poole at 28. Either they have some amazing super top secret analytics or it was some leader’s amazing gut call. If the former, we’ll never hear about it. But we might get a scoop one day on what the discussion was like that led to this decision.
The comparison to a player like Mitchell is pretty hard. Mitchell is more mature, a 3 time all star, and a solid first scoring option. But he’s also a poor sport and his pathetic petty squabbles with his starting center, including refusing to pass to him when he was obviously open under the basket, has destroyed my respect for him. I won’t be shocked if Mitchell has a long, solid career but I’d still rather keep Poole.
jeckyllhouse (9 ♡):
Poole is not only a great player but a great showman, he's a delight to watch
Dilly (9 ♡):
>>crazy unrestrained crazy celebration faces.
How did we survive before these??
Trogdor (7 ♡):
Conversations no one could have anticipated during the 2019-2020 season:
If you unfortunately can't keep both, is Jordan Poole or Andrew Wiggins more valuable to your team on a near-max contact?
Dilly (7 ♡):
As a teacher I had once used to say to let you know something would be on the test...
"Good thing to remember."
Specifically, this statement:
If we learn nothing else from this series, it’s that players with talent, good work ethic, good coaching and a good role can dramatically change their careers. We cannot rush to judgment on the wisdom of picking them.
Tell us what stands out
Trogdor (14 ♡):
Okay, I just spoke with my co-worker who is personal friends with Ron Adams. A few interesting points that might be of interest here:
-apparently he's one of the nicest people you'll ever meet. Really great guy.
-he's definitely more of a philosopher type who reads poetry. Not the sort you would expect to be a basketball coach.
-It sounds like he's quasi-retired at this point and not nearly as involved with the day-to-day as he used to be
-he often doesn't travel with the team
Most importantly... if he travels with the team when they come to Ohio she's going to see if she can get him to have dinner with us before the game and get us tickets! Probably a long shot, but hope springs eternal.
If I do have the pleasure of meeting him I'll tell him all about all of you! That is, unless Asher forces the trade he's trying to orchestrate before then. I guess then I'd share it with whatever fan base I get traded to, but I'm not sure if they'd appreciate it like all of you would.
Being (11 ♡):
Timpf's eval of Steph. Wow. That was a fantastic overview. You can really tell that Timpf loves Steph.
Calls 2020-2021 the best regular season of Steph's career. Best shooter of all time. Best pull-up shooter of all-time (KD is best midrange, but weighted by 3's, Steph wins). Calls him the best offensive engine in the game right now (LBJ is best of the era, but he second now, and Luka, Jokic come 3rd/4th). Not playmaker - engine - much of the offensive value Steph generates is off-ball. Playmakers like KD/PG/KL impact 30-40% of possessions they're on the court. Engines impact almost all of the possessions. Calls this last postseason the defining run of Steph's career. Calls his Jan-Mar slump fluky, and not regression of any sort. Talks about Steph's fluidity transitioning from handle to shot (one of the best in the league at this). Mentions how Steph could be a high assist heliocentric guy, but he doesn't need to be.
Timpf reviews The NBA Finals, and the Bos strategies for defending Steph and the Dubs.
Compares Steph to Dame, and says the big difference is what Step does off-ball.
Timpf talks about how inverted the Dubs' system is: They need playmakers not 3-pt shooters. Steph creates space around the rim, so you need playmakers who can take advantage of that.
Talks about Steph's improvement on defense in 2014-2015, and how he went from a bad defensive player to an above avg defensive player.
Calls Steph the best leader in the game as well as a total psychopath.
Two big flaws: (1) loose with handles. (2) not capable of leaving a physical imprint on either end of the floor - compared vs. LBJ, Giannis, KD, etc. Can never be better defensively than he is right now, can't impact and dramatically change a game defensively the way Giannis or LBJ can.
Says that if Steph wins 2 more titles, could be in GOAT convo as a dynasty foundation.
Biggest fear is that the young guys don't develop and Klay/Dray's bodies break down, thereby costing Steph his chance at winning more titles.
Calls GS model really important for the future of the league.
PS> Dray, Klay, JP are all in his next tier of top players immediately after his top29 in this list.
Goofus (6 ♡):
I was coming to share this, but way too lazy to say anything other than “Watch video…it good.”
Great summary! Two things I’d add: 1) The psychopath comment was in regards to his competitiveness and wanting to tear opponents’ hearts out. He added that Steph is as steady internally as there is in the league “A better version of Tim Duncan”.
2. I thought that he did a really good job of explaining why he picked Giannis 1 and Steph 2.
Alas Phood Fight (11 ♡):
I can't wait to see JTA get his ring. 19 stitches in his head diving for a ball out of bounds. Well earned.
crusty quips (8 ♡):
We don't even need a new sport. If either Lacob or the AASEG goes through with purchasing a WNBA team and setting it up in Oakland like they have been discussing over the last couple of years, we could have basketball year-round in the bay! The WNBA would like to expand as soon as the 2024 season so it is something within the realm of possibility. From 3 days ago: https://www.mercurynews.com/2022/08/17/why-the-bay-area-makes-sense-to-be-home-of-wnbas-next-team/
mDuo13 (8 ♡):
I mean, Bogut maybe kind of ruined it by saying this publicly because it would look like a scheme if KD tweeted it now, but I really want to see what would happen if he did.
Too many people and companies in modern America are unwilling to call out China's injustices because they have a financial incentive not to. It's perverse seeing Americans choose money over freedom and principles that way.
To be fair, there is a limit: if you refuse to interact with an entire country because unjust things happen in that country, you'll end up cutting yourself off from everyone. But being unwilling to even publicly acknowledge that injustice is occurring is another level.
GSW-DEN Games 2 & 3 edition
Nom De Sab (11 ♡):
NBA announces no games will be played on Election Day, Nov. 8, this year. The league says it will "amplify the work of each team to promote civic engagement in their respective markets" during games played the day before, Nov. 7.
crusty quips (9 ♡):
Thinking Basketball posted a new video today discussing the rule changes that have taken place over the various basketball eras and how they have generally trended towards benefiting the offense, especially in the last 15-20 years. To me it definitely reinforced the idea that the great defenders of this current era are among the best to ever play basketball due to how much more difficult it is to play defense than it used to be. Guys like Draymond, Jrue, and Kawhi do things that the defenders of the 80s and 90s wouldn't even attempt, and they don't have the benefit of using hand checks or getting the friendly whistle on potential offensive fouls. Definitely worth a watch.
Hashemite Kingdom (9 ♡):
I hearted everyone's post so you can all get in the comments of the week.
Nothin' much else going on around here.
g8tgod (8 ♡):
There is no such world in all of the multi-verse. In every version of the universe, Steph is a Warrior.
Sleepy Freud (7 ♡):
Yep. Even the ones where he’s a Japanese schoolgirl, a cartoon pig, or has hot dog fingers!
Hashemite Kingdom (7 ♡):
[On Dray and LeBron being friends] It doesn't bother me - just reminds me that the rivalries we have as fans have nothing to do with the relationships players have amongst themselves.
If I put myself in the players' shoes, I've known these other guys and have been playing with them for years and years, maybe in high school or college, AAU, national teams, olympics, etc. I might have played on a team with someone else for years before one of us got traded or dumped. I've got friends all over the place, and my friendships aren't limited to the people who happen to be on my immediate team. (Like Andre and Evan Turner putting a podcast together - I had no idea of their story but it's really cool.)
So it it really sycophancy? C'mon, these guys have known each other forever and are going to be seeing each other a lot in the future. Dray is smart enough to know that if he continues working in the media full-time, it would be a good thing for him to be able to have access to LeBron. I always think of Dray (and Dre) as being a couple of steps ahead of everyone in the chess game of life. So smart.
The Warriors/Cavs/Lakers rivalries nonwithstanding, I have huge respect for LeBron. Yeah, he can be full of himself at times, but given the spotlight he's been under since age what? 13? I tend to give him a lot of the benefit of the doubt. I don't think I would have done as well myself. He's done some great things in his life as far as education and advocacy, much better than MJ, whom I liked far better as a player.
Abaddon (6 ♡):
[On Dray and LeBron being friends] Not at all. These are human beings and businessmen and I don't really care what they do off the court as long as it's not illegal or immoral.
I expect those guys to fight like hell when they play each other, and that's really what matters.
you write the comments, we regurgitate the comments with love
Trogdor (14 ♡):
[On playing LAL] That's nice of them to give us an additional exhibition game.
Goofus (10 ♡):
The GP2 comparison isn’t very fair. As a 29 year old journeyman who was never going to be a franchise cornerstone and with just $4M in earnings to date, this might’ve been his only chance at getting life-changing money.
Contrast that with Poole, who’s already got $10m in guaranteed earnings at 23 and who could eventually by the lead dog in this or any team he plays on. He theoretically can be more patient with at least two more big contracts to come.
Nom De Sab (9 ♡):
An easy way for KD to get out of
that no NBA analyst is discussing.
A simple tweet: "Free Hong Kong, Free Taiwan".
Gone the next day.....
GreenDray (7 ♡):
Cut bait on the two best defenders and hope the Warriors can squeak out a whole bunch of 132-128 wins? I think getting rid of even one of them is playing with fire, but both ... I don't see it.
Eric Apricot (7 ♡):
Sources: NBA’s 2022 Christmas Day schedule:
Bucks at Celtics
76ers at Knicks
Suns at Nuggets
Lakers at Mavericks
Grizzlies at Warriors
g8tgod (7 ♡):
I don't think Poole is quite Irving's equal on court yet, though the potential is there. But in other areas -- availability, work ethic, COVID vaccination, believes the earth is round -- he's far, far superior.
Eric Apricot (6 ♡):
Reading this very interesting article on MEM drafting lots of analytics darling prospects.
> According to Kalbrosky, the Grizzlies three draft picks from last year (as well as three other players on their roster from prior drafts) pass the same statistical thresholds: an eFG% over 57%, BLK and STL rates above 2% and D-REB and AST rates above 14%.
Eric: And are the only three such players in college basketball.
> I don’t know about you, but 57% eFG% felt like a somewhat arbitrary number. What if we expanded that just a little to 55%, thus growing the criteria of prospects available? The list grows from three to eight. One of those eight (Trevion Williams from Purdue) is now in the NBA and was a signee of the Golden State Warriors.
(The other 4 went back to college.)
Aaannnd1 (6 ♡):
OT quotes from famous athletes on losing:
“I’ve missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I’ve lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times I’ve been trusted to take the game-winning shot and missed. I’ve failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed.”
– Michael Jordan
“If you're not making mistakes, then you're not doing anything. I'm positive that a doer makes mistakes.”
– John Wooden, college basketball coach
UneasySquirrel (6 ♡):
Before I forget, I saw Javale McGee in Santa Monica on Thursday.
Goofus (6 ♡):
I’m glad you shared that before you forgot. I always suspected that he might be tall, but people here scoffed at me.
belilaugh (6 ♡):
> it seems like most teams just try to out talent them…nobody is beating them iq wise when the vets are out there
That's true, that has been their secret sauce all these years and I do kinda wonder what made them depart from this strategy in recent drafts.
Goofus (6 ♡):
Did anyone share this yet? Warriors posted a nearly 12 minute mixtape of Steph being awesome throughout his career.
Nom De Sab (5 ♡):
WFL: Eric Housen. Literally.
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