I hadn't heard the Simmons podcast, but I was doing the same thing as regards SAS. My goal is getting under the 2nd Apron (179,500,000), because if I was Joe Lacob, I would tell my GM that is his #1 job.
Poole & GP2 to SAS for Zach Collins and as many picks as we can squeeze out of them. Cap Impact: -29.7 mil.
Lester Q, Ty & Lamb are all added on minimums. At this point, all 3 have had a year in the system, so this makes the back third of your roster a bit more reliable.
Draymond re-ups, but year 1 he is going to take a 6 mil haircut and just accept that this is his penance for wrecking last year.
This team is 350k UNDER the 2nd Apron.
Starters: Curry-Klay-Wiggs-JK-Looney
Bench: Lester Q (or Ty interchangable)-Moody-PBJ-Dray-Zach Collins
Backend: Ty-Rollins-Lamb & #19 Pick (Kris Murray, Trace-Jackson, L Miller?)
I have no problem with replacing Poole & GP2 minutes with combinations of more minutes for JK, Moody, Lester & Ty. Zach Collins finally gives the team the backup center with a 3-point shot they desperately need. We will miss the highs that Poole provided, but we won't get the same lows either with Moody-Lester-Ty, whom I feel would give the Warriors a better level of consistency at the guard spot. It's not the greatest, but this roster is under the 2nd Apron. And if Kerr would coach to the strengths of the players on this roster, this team would be competitive.
I agree that it's important to stay under the second apron, but maybe they defer this for one more year to go all-in? Klay's contract is up after this year.
If they do decide to get under the second apron right away, my read is a follows:
- Poole is traded for rotation pieces
- DDV walks (but it's his call), but if Poole is traded early, he might choose to stay for a bigger role
- GP2, Moody, Rollins stay - FO wants to see what they have in Rollins before giving up, and GP2 is much more valuable to us than to anyone else; Moody is 7th man at wing
- Only one of Dray and JK stays - if Dray opts in or extends, JK is traded for a lottery pick + cheaper vet
I could be totally off, but this is what my gut tells me right now.
FYI you can't really trade for a lottery pick. Whomever gets JK might make the play-in or better. So, one can't just plan to trade a player for a lottery pick.
Here is something that has been bothering me for many days. The Warriors fell on their face this season. We struggled to get to the playoffs, and our road record was never rectified. The development of our young guys and their roles were never implemented in any meaningful way. They struggled all year long. So, how does the coaching staff not take the brunt of responsibility for this fiasco? Kerr looked like he was at a loss to come up with anything new and stuck within his own system. Is this not a sign that a change is needed? Is Lacob so stuck inside of his memories of glory that he doesn't see the handwriting on the wall? Poole has nothing but upside and fans want to run him out of town only to be drawn back to the failure of the coaching to move forward with an aging team which is financially handicapped and can't find any real help due to the cap holds and taxes. We continue to think 2 way contracts and vet mins. are the way to go. Dumpster diving is not the answer. This coaching staff needs shaking up. They are too set in their ways. Either it's time for Kerr to go, or clean house and begin again. It's hard for me to think Lacob can be happy with this situation. He is a fan like us. He wants to win and has said he will do what it takes to win. That was his promise to the fan base when he took over. Now, that becomes a reality once again for us. All cycles come to an end. How can there not be a big change a-coming?
I'm on the 'hold Poole for one more year and see what happens' train.
This year was such a trainwreck for him ... but it happens. Let's see what another summer does for him. Trading now is trading at the probable nadir of his value anyway.
You can probably (not a certainty) get something back for him at the trade deadline, and he may have improved enough that we really wouldn't want to trade him.
I'm totally with you on Kerr being stuck in his own system. I have always been a Dray supporter and would like to see him retire a Warrior, but the Draymond Green / Steve Kerr mutually dysfucntional and enabling relationship is killing the team. If they both remain, it must be on the condition that Kerr opens up his playbook to adapt to the strengths of the other players on his team and Dray needs to accept a different role that is in line with the twilight of his career, as in, do what Iggy did, allow JK to start like H Barnes did for the betterment of the team, be the vet who comes in and provides the defense, ball handling and IQ that Andre brought, and be a mentor, not a tormentor.
Sadly, we don't deserve Poole. The entire organization did him wrong and its up to us to make good and get him into a situation where he can spread his wings.
I do believe there is a path back to the Finals with Dray & Kerr, but I trust them the way Steve Kerr trusted JK & Moody this year. The very narrow path I see requires Dray re-upping on a very team friendly contract to make up for single-fistedly wrecking this last year as well as energetically accepting the Iggy role moving forward. (Let's not forget, he needs to get down to 28 min a game if we want him fresh for the playoffs moving forward.) Secondly, Poole gets traded and Kerr publicly acknowledges how badly the team handled the punch. And lastly, Kerr has to show (commit to with GM and Lacob) that he is capable of coaching younger players and add some off-speed pitches to his offensive system. We cannot play the same damn offensive song over and over and over again.
If this very specific path isn't followed, the Dray/Kerr relationship will doom the franchise as they will continue to default to old ways, old patterns, old ideas, with ever fewer results.
>The development of our young guys and their roles were never implemented in any meaningful way. They struggled all year long. So, how does the coaching staff not take the brunt of responsibility for this fiasco?
Because thankfully, most people are knowledgeable enough about basketball to know that developing young players and short-term winning are antithetical goals and thus Kerr was left with an impossible situation.
>Poole has nothing but upside and fans want to run him out of town only to be drawn back to the failure of the coaching to move forward with an aging team which is financially handicapped and can't find any real help due to the cap holds and taxes.
Even if we ignore that his evident inability to defend at a championship level puts a hard ceiling on his upside, his large contract for the next season is the best tool to actually get that real help you wish for.
>We continue to think 2 way contracts and vet mins. are the way to go. Dumpster diving is not the answer.
And yet you want to continue gambling on the draft and young players, which does not even deserve the term dumpster diving because when you go into a dumpster you at least have a general idea what you are going to find whereas the draft, especially with the low picks we have, is a crapshoot and potential is nothing but a collection of question marks which, generally speaking, rarely result in exclamation marks.
>It's hard for me to think Lacob can be happy with this situation. He is a fan like us. He wants to win and has said he will do what it takes to win
And winning takes going all-in on the greatest players this franchise will ever know and giving them experienced partners who can be trusted to do their job. The cycle of contention and rebuild is inevitable, so if Lacob cares about winning, he will try to delay the latter as much as possible and abandon his foolish pretense of thinking he can avoid the blunt reality of NBA basketball with "tWo TiMeLiNeS"
Some teams say "We aren't going to rebuild. We are going to reload." That's what the two timelines were meant to be. The young guns were supposed to be the bench. But they can't take on those roles if the coach yanks them after every mistake, the same mistakes vets were making. He had to be willing to take early losses, and reap the bounty of improvement starting at maybe December/January. But Kerr's never had to develop a team, so he panicked. And that's why he may not be the right coach for what the team needed then, and may need now.
That's such an odd comment. Every single star in the league was once drafted. ZERO stars in the league became stars with a vet min contract. So, simple math:
The draft: Stars in a Year/Total Drafted in a Year = (Plausible Average) 3/60 = 1/20 = 5%
Vet min: Stars in a Year/Total Vet min in a Year = 0/50 = 0 = 0%
The draft is (arguably infinitely times) more promising than the "Vet min" approach. That someone thinks otherwise is just really Really REALLY odd.
The best way to think about two timelines is not with the exclusion of one or the other. That is innovation. This team was not able to do that. Poole had great gain from our ring year. They lost him, somehow.
In short, a lot of events from the previous episodes seemed almost inconsequential in the final episode, so left a bit confused. But overall props to the show.
Yea. I think the decision to have the season take place over what is like about 2 weeks really didn’t give enough time for things to happen/consequences to unfold.
Was listening to Bill Simmons blab about the new CBA on my ride home and he offhandedly mentioned the idea that the new CBA is so onerous that the Warriors might be forced to do something like trade Poole to the Spurs for picks this summer.
Made me think though...wouldn't the Spurs actually be a good trade partner? Poole's horrific defense might turn some teams off but maybe not the team with Wembanyama holding down the paint? The Spurs have Tre Jones as their starting PG so it's not like they have a top PG or top prospect holding the spot down. Spurs have a ton of cap space but aren't usually a free agent destination, other than LaMarcus Aldridge who have they really signed? And that was when they were really good, not the worst team in the league. They are far under the salary cap and as a result could completely absorb Poole's contract without sending any salary back in return. They also have a ton of draft capital in the coming years.
Could the Warriors trade Poole for McDermott and Collins and as many picks as they can get from the Spurs? McDermott makes 13.7M and Collins makes 7.7M and both are expiring contracts so both of those contracts could be packaged out with the newly acquired picks to get back rotation guys (or perhaps they keep Collins). Warriors shed about 7 million in the deal too. McDermott and a pick could maybe get you Olynyk from a tanking Jazz team? Collins+Rollins+two picks could maybe get you Caruso from a tanking Bulls team?
I've been wondering about the Spurs for a while, too. They should be trying to be at least decent right away, imo. I could see them having some interest in Poole, or, alternatively, in an older veteran PG like Conley or McCollum whose current team might prefer Poole's youth and upside—which is another way that deal could become a three-teamer. (If I were the Spurs, though, I'd be tempted to make runs at both Reaves and Grant Williams in free agency. If they could get the pair for $35M/yr or so, I'd like that for them.)
Warriors should keep Poole. This narrative of him being useless is laughable. It's Klay who is an anchor of financial woes and Draymond who is believed to be the secret of the Warrior success story that is blown out of proportion.
Beli isn't saying Poole's useless. If Klay and Dray are as negative as you believe how could the W's get off their contracts without getting back equally horrible contracts? Beli's idea has merit as a way to lower the cap hit enough that they can duck under assuming Dray and Klay are gone or resign for less $$/yr
I know Belli didn't say he was useless, but if you want to trade him, it means giving up on the one player the Warriors have that is young, multi-talented, and supposedly the future of the team. There is no other young player on the Dubs that you can really say that about.
Klay's contract IS a problem that cannot be solved, imo. Dray is a totally different situation. Lowering the cap, has big implications, both positive and negative. The negative means you have to give up/sacrifice someone who was a part of the core. No other way around it unless you are living on hope. Lacob is not a gambler in the sense of maybe this one or. that one will help in a trade. There has to be a clear path to what they are trying to do. Poole is the only player who has given the Dubs that clear path. He helped win a ring the year before. Not Moody, JFK, or even Dante can be included in that summary. It is Kerr's fault for what took place on the floor of last year's team and the demise that has ensued.
The Dubs know Klay can't be even the third option on a title team. He has been passed by Wigs, Poole (title year), and is poised to be passed by JK if Steve Kerr would play him. Trade partners, however, might not care. Not every team is trying to win a title.
I think BS is right... was on a long flight and played with the numbers on excel (would've preferred SAS to make me feel more certain)... could be completely off but even if Green accepted a discount 3-yr $75 mil contract (first year $23.75), including the rookie at the 19th slot for $2.5 mil, kept everyone else with one additional vet min at $1.8 mil to get you at 14 min, you're still looking at a half a billion dollar roster b/c of the very punitive repeater tax.
I'd prefer to run it back but I think you almost have to trade Poole for money reasons, preferably for two players as you suggested... you not only save the $7 mil that you mentioned but you don't have to pay another vet min player so essentially you save $9 mil. The total cost of that 14 man roster would be about $400 mil ($100 mil savings!). Would love for someone to check that b/c it sounds unreal... but again, it's not just being well above the aprons it's the repeater tax that is so punitive. I also understand that there may be a bit of relief as the 5 million 'penalty brackets' will increase proportionally to the increase in cap space but I don't think this would apply this year. It almost makes it moot with the new CBA 2nd apron penalties of no mid-level, trade rules, etc b/c I can't see the team adding salary.
If you just let Draymond walk... the savings sound ridiculous that I can't even write it here.
Do the Spurs need to bother shelling picks for a $30M player when theyre years from contending anyway? By the time they might be decent Poole will be approaching FA again
Or keep McDermott (bench shooting) and Collins (backup 5 and will make Sleepy happy) for one season, then let them walk after this coming season, and get salary relief for '24-'25 that lets us hold on to Kuminga, Moody, et al.
I don't know if it's a legal trade without adding a bit of extra salary, so blame the CBA or blame the Warriors for not having more small contracts to trade. Maybe if they threw Kuminga in instead and altered the trade a bit.
Plus this is why I have to remind myself to be patient when the first trade is made by the FO. It may just be the first of a couple and not worth me spiraling about it!
Not sure if this was shared yet, but Warriors dropped a reel of Kuminga dunks on the season and as you might expect, there are some jaw-droppers: https://youtu.be/FRgm2XGtcY0
Random but it's kind of funny how our 3-1 cougher in 2016 overshadowed the Thunder's 3-1 choke completely. I understand the stage wasn't as big as ours but its legit never talked about.
It's because people like to make a big deal of "never happened before in history", even if it's not significantly different than things that have happened. NBA teams up 3-1 in a series lose sometimes (not often, but it happens). But since it never had happened to occur during a Finals series before, then people lost their minds about "a team up 3-1 has never lost in Finals history before."
Dray+Poole to the Suns for KD with Dray on a sign and trade. The Warriors do it because if you can't win a championship with a starting 5 of Curry, Thompson, Wiggins, Durant, and Looney (if healthy) you need to start firing coaches. The Warriors keep the youngsters while saving $6M. Plus it makes the Dray-Poole dynamic somebody else's problem (or a 3rd team could be involved to split them up). The Suns do it because CP3 is old and they are pretty thin at forward in any case so will need one coming back.
Suns aren't going to do this trade though as they invested too much in getting KD to trade him out again after 1/2 season. [Edit: but they might if JK was included which also works]
KD seems like a better fit for the Suns than Poole and Dray anyway. BTW when you ran the numbers, did you account for signing Dray to a big raise to entice him to agree to it?
Trading Places: Jordan Poole to Utah for Jordan Clarkson + 2025 1st Rd pick via MIN. Same player, but Clarkson a little more consistent and hasn't been punched by Dray .... yet. Utah does it because they liked the fit with Clarkson and they can have that for the next 4 years with Poole. They have a ton of picks, so letting one go to take a chance on Poole as a building block is a good play. GS does it because we get the same player who would be a little more reliable/predictable, also has made a living coming off the bench which has proved problematic with Poole. 1 year rental, Lester should take his spot in the lineup after that. It's also 14.4 million off the cap.
Love this. I see Clarkson and Poole as very good comps, but JC has the years of experience to see when he should find the open man instead of chucking. His passing this past season took a leap, and is where I hope JP can get to. But getting JC onboard would be a win-now (and cheaper) move. Don't think Utah's doing it, but if they would GSW should take it.
Second thoughts: I looked at their stats it's uncanny how nearly identical JP and JC were as players this past year. Same A:T ratio and Ast/game, same scoring (FG%, 3P%) within a point, almost the same minutes/g (both born in June too, incidentally). Surprisingly JP's steal and block rates are slightly better, though not great. If JP improves to more like last year's stats, he's the better player. Clarkson seems to have peaked as a shooter and distributor in his fourth season, when he was 23, as JP is now. If JP takes a leap next year, his upside could be worth his hefty contract in the long run. It all depends on what a lighter payroll could net the Dubs in the SC30 peak window. Glad I'm not a GM.
Clarkson makes $13 million on a deal that expires next summer, Poole makes $27 mil and is on a 4 year deal.
I think the Dubs would do this deal in a heartbeat just to get off of Poole's long contract (which is looking pretty risky now).
But, Utah seems to be shedding future salary and accumulating picks (probably to trade for a star when one is available). They basically gifted Jarred Vanderbilt to the Lakers for the privilege of getting off of half of Mike Conley's salary next year, and a pick.
I don't see any way Utah would go for this. I don't think they would do a Clarkson for Poole straight up trade, even.
At some point, a young team needs some vet leadership. Poole is young, but he has a great work ethic, he's won a chip, he's an alpha, and is young enough to remain a part of a long term plan with Utah, because he still needs some more development time. I think this is an easy call for Utah.
I would say that Utah's first priority is to find a tentpole star, unless you think of Markkenen as a number one on a playoff team (I think he's better suited as a number 2).
Your point about Poole is valid, it's just that he's being paid like a 2 or 3 in the rotation. Wayy too much money for Utah (small budget team).
But, your take is interesting ... I see Utah still doing their teardown. You seem to think they are ready to compete. I guess we'll find out in about six months.
Edit: Or maybe we'll find out in about 4 weeks, when we see who Utah is willing to trade in the offseason.
rewatching game 6 of the boston series last year and the “DPOY” ducking the steph smoke in the 4th quarter was embarrassing. leaving horford on an island with 30 in crunch time makes no sense at all and smart should get his award revoked just for that.
the steph ‘ring me’ celebration midway through the 3rd only up 22 is the craziest thing ever too looking back at it. the disrespect. i love it.
Well, I read about it and Ball got a cartilage replacement for his meniscus which is apparently a first for a professional athlete so I can understand the skepticism. Then again Tommy John had the first Tommy John surgery for a professional athlete and that seems to have worked out ok.
I hadn't heard the Simmons podcast, but I was doing the same thing as regards SAS. My goal is getting under the 2nd Apron (179,500,000), because if I was Joe Lacob, I would tell my GM that is his #1 job.
Poole & GP2 to SAS for Zach Collins and as many picks as we can squeeze out of them. Cap Impact: -29.7 mil.
Lester Q, Ty & Lamb are all added on minimums. At this point, all 3 have had a year in the system, so this makes the back third of your roster a bit more reliable.
Draymond re-ups, but year 1 he is going to take a 6 mil haircut and just accept that this is his penance for wrecking last year.
This team is 350k UNDER the 2nd Apron.
Starters: Curry-Klay-Wiggs-JK-Looney
Bench: Lester Q (or Ty interchangable)-Moody-PBJ-Dray-Zach Collins
Backend: Ty-Rollins-Lamb & #19 Pick (Kris Murray, Trace-Jackson, L Miller?)
I have no problem with replacing Poole & GP2 minutes with combinations of more minutes for JK, Moody, Lester & Ty. Zach Collins finally gives the team the backup center with a 3-point shot they desperately need. We will miss the highs that Poole provided, but we won't get the same lows either with Moody-Lester-Ty, whom I feel would give the Warriors a better level of consistency at the guard spot. It's not the greatest, but this roster is under the 2nd Apron. And if Kerr would coach to the strengths of the players on this roster, this team would be competitive.
I agree that it's important to stay under the second apron, but maybe they defer this for one more year to go all-in? Klay's contract is up after this year.
If they do decide to get under the second apron right away, my read is a follows:
- Poole is traded for rotation pieces
- DDV walks (but it's his call), but if Poole is traded early, he might choose to stay for a bigger role
- GP2, Moody, Rollins stay - FO wants to see what they have in Rollins before giving up, and GP2 is much more valuable to us than to anyone else; Moody is 7th man at wing
- Only one of Dray and JK stays - if Dray opts in or extends, JK is traded for a lottery pick + cheaper vet
I could be totally off, but this is what my gut tells me right now.
FYI you can't really trade for a lottery pick. Whomever gets JK might make the play-in or better. So, one can't just plan to trade a player for a lottery pick.
I was being unclear - I meant one of this year's lower lottery picks, or rather the player chosen.
Option: If we can get Damion Lee back at 2.4 mil as a FA, then add Rollins to Spurs package and that's much better and still under the 2nd Apron.
Here is something that has been bothering me for many days. The Warriors fell on their face this season. We struggled to get to the playoffs, and our road record was never rectified. The development of our young guys and their roles were never implemented in any meaningful way. They struggled all year long. So, how does the coaching staff not take the brunt of responsibility for this fiasco? Kerr looked like he was at a loss to come up with anything new and stuck within his own system. Is this not a sign that a change is needed? Is Lacob so stuck inside of his memories of glory that he doesn't see the handwriting on the wall? Poole has nothing but upside and fans want to run him out of town only to be drawn back to the failure of the coaching to move forward with an aging team which is financially handicapped and can't find any real help due to the cap holds and taxes. We continue to think 2 way contracts and vet mins. are the way to go. Dumpster diving is not the answer. This coaching staff needs shaking up. They are too set in their ways. Either it's time for Kerr to go, or clean house and begin again. It's hard for me to think Lacob can be happy with this situation. He is a fan like us. He wants to win and has said he will do what it takes to win. That was his promise to the fan base when he took over. Now, that becomes a reality once again for us. All cycles come to an end. How can there not be a big change a-coming?
I'm on the 'hold Poole for one more year and see what happens' train.
This year was such a trainwreck for him ... but it happens. Let's see what another summer does for him. Trading now is trading at the probable nadir of his value anyway.
You can probably (not a certainty) get something back for him at the trade deadline, and he may have improved enough that we really wouldn't want to trade him.
I'm totally with you on Kerr being stuck in his own system. I have always been a Dray supporter and would like to see him retire a Warrior, but the Draymond Green / Steve Kerr mutually dysfucntional and enabling relationship is killing the team. If they both remain, it must be on the condition that Kerr opens up his playbook to adapt to the strengths of the other players on his team and Dray needs to accept a different role that is in line with the twilight of his career, as in, do what Iggy did, allow JK to start like H Barnes did for the betterment of the team, be the vet who comes in and provides the defense, ball handling and IQ that Andre brought, and be a mentor, not a tormentor.
Sadly, we don't deserve Poole. The entire organization did him wrong and its up to us to make good and get him into a situation where he can spread his wings.
I do believe there is a path back to the Finals with Dray & Kerr, but I trust them the way Steve Kerr trusted JK & Moody this year. The very narrow path I see requires Dray re-upping on a very team friendly contract to make up for single-fistedly wrecking this last year as well as energetically accepting the Iggy role moving forward. (Let's not forget, he needs to get down to 28 min a game if we want him fresh for the playoffs moving forward.) Secondly, Poole gets traded and Kerr publicly acknowledges how badly the team handled the punch. And lastly, Kerr has to show (commit to with GM and Lacob) that he is capable of coaching younger players and add some off-speed pitches to his offensive system. We cannot play the same damn offensive song over and over and over again.
If this very specific path isn't followed, the Dray/Kerr relationship will doom the franchise as they will continue to default to old ways, old patterns, old ideas, with ever fewer results.
>The development of our young guys and their roles were never implemented in any meaningful way. They struggled all year long. So, how does the coaching staff not take the brunt of responsibility for this fiasco?
Because thankfully, most people are knowledgeable enough about basketball to know that developing young players and short-term winning are antithetical goals and thus Kerr was left with an impossible situation.
>Poole has nothing but upside and fans want to run him out of town only to be drawn back to the failure of the coaching to move forward with an aging team which is financially handicapped and can't find any real help due to the cap holds and taxes.
Even if we ignore that his evident inability to defend at a championship level puts a hard ceiling on his upside, his large contract for the next season is the best tool to actually get that real help you wish for.
>We continue to think 2 way contracts and vet mins. are the way to go. Dumpster diving is not the answer.
And yet you want to continue gambling on the draft and young players, which does not even deserve the term dumpster diving because when you go into a dumpster you at least have a general idea what you are going to find whereas the draft, especially with the low picks we have, is a crapshoot and potential is nothing but a collection of question marks which, generally speaking, rarely result in exclamation marks.
>It's hard for me to think Lacob can be happy with this situation. He is a fan like us. He wants to win and has said he will do what it takes to win
And winning takes going all-in on the greatest players this franchise will ever know and giving them experienced partners who can be trusted to do their job. The cycle of contention and rebuild is inevitable, so if Lacob cares about winning, he will try to delay the latter as much as possible and abandon his foolish pretense of thinking he can avoid the blunt reality of NBA basketball with "tWo TiMeLiNeS"
Some teams say "We aren't going to rebuild. We are going to reload." That's what the two timelines were meant to be. The young guns were supposed to be the bench. But they can't take on those roles if the coach yanks them after every mistake, the same mistakes vets were making. He had to be willing to take early losses, and reap the bounty of improvement starting at maybe December/January. But Kerr's never had to develop a team, so he panicked. And that's why he may not be the right coach for what the team needed then, and may need now.
That's such an odd comment. Every single star in the league was once drafted. ZERO stars in the league became stars with a vet min contract. So, simple math:
The draft: Stars in a Year/Total Drafted in a Year = (Plausible Average) 3/60 = 1/20 = 5%
Vet min: Stars in a Year/Total Vet min in a Year = 0/50 = 0 = 0%
The draft is (arguably infinitely times) more promising than the "Vet min" approach. That someone thinks otherwise is just really Really REALLY odd.
The best way to think about two timelines is not with the exclusion of one or the other. That is innovation. This team was not able to do that. Poole had great gain from our ring year. They lost him, somehow.
No Spoilers: conflicted on Succession finale. Some threads wrapped up neatly but felt the show needed another half season to make sense of it all.
Yea for reals. EDIT: removed potential spoilers.
In short, a lot of events from the previous episodes seemed almost inconsequential in the final episode, so left a bit confused. But overall props to the show.
That Menchken storyline bothered me the most becaise it would have had epic consequences for ATN one way or the other in the end
Yea. I think the decision to have the season take place over what is like about 2 weeks really didn’t give enough time for things to happen/consequences to unfold.
Was listening to Bill Simmons blab about the new CBA on my ride home and he offhandedly mentioned the idea that the new CBA is so onerous that the Warriors might be forced to do something like trade Poole to the Spurs for picks this summer.
Made me think though...wouldn't the Spurs actually be a good trade partner? Poole's horrific defense might turn some teams off but maybe not the team with Wembanyama holding down the paint? The Spurs have Tre Jones as their starting PG so it's not like they have a top PG or top prospect holding the spot down. Spurs have a ton of cap space but aren't usually a free agent destination, other than LaMarcus Aldridge who have they really signed? And that was when they were really good, not the worst team in the league. They are far under the salary cap and as a result could completely absorb Poole's contract without sending any salary back in return. They also have a ton of draft capital in the coming years.
Could the Warriors trade Poole for McDermott and Collins and as many picks as they can get from the Spurs? McDermott makes 13.7M and Collins makes 7.7M and both are expiring contracts so both of those contracts could be packaged out with the newly acquired picks to get back rotation guys (or perhaps they keep Collins). Warriors shed about 7 million in the deal too. McDermott and a pick could maybe get you Olynyk from a tanking Jazz team? Collins+Rollins+two picks could maybe get you Caruso from a tanking Bulls team?
I've been wondering about the Spurs for a while, too. They should be trying to be at least decent right away, imo. I could see them having some interest in Poole, or, alternatively, in an older veteran PG like Conley or McCollum whose current team might prefer Poole's youth and upside—which is another way that deal could become a three-teamer. (If I were the Spurs, though, I'd be tempted to make runs at both Reaves and Grant Williams in free agency. If they could get the pair for $35M/yr or so, I'd like that for them.)
Warriors should keep Poole. This narrative of him being useless is laughable. It's Klay who is an anchor of financial woes and Draymond who is believed to be the secret of the Warrior success story that is blown out of proportion.
Beli isn't saying Poole's useless. If Klay and Dray are as negative as you believe how could the W's get off their contracts without getting back equally horrible contracts? Beli's idea has merit as a way to lower the cap hit enough that they can duck under assuming Dray and Klay are gone or resign for less $$/yr
I know Belli didn't say he was useless, but if you want to trade him, it means giving up on the one player the Warriors have that is young, multi-talented, and supposedly the future of the team. There is no other young player on the Dubs that you can really say that about.
Klay's contract IS a problem that cannot be solved, imo. Dray is a totally different situation. Lowering the cap, has big implications, both positive and negative. The negative means you have to give up/sacrifice someone who was a part of the core. No other way around it unless you are living on hope. Lacob is not a gambler in the sense of maybe this one or. that one will help in a trade. There has to be a clear path to what they are trying to do. Poole is the only player who has given the Dubs that clear path. He helped win a ring the year before. Not Moody, JFK, or even Dante can be included in that summary. It is Kerr's fault for what took place on the floor of last year's team and the demise that has ensued.
The Dubs know Klay can't be even the third option on a title team. He has been passed by Wigs, Poole (title year), and is poised to be passed by JK if Steve Kerr would play him. Trade partners, however, might not care. Not every team is trying to win a title.
I think BS is right... was on a long flight and played with the numbers on excel (would've preferred SAS to make me feel more certain)... could be completely off but even if Green accepted a discount 3-yr $75 mil contract (first year $23.75), including the rookie at the 19th slot for $2.5 mil, kept everyone else with one additional vet min at $1.8 mil to get you at 14 min, you're still looking at a half a billion dollar roster b/c of the very punitive repeater tax.
I'd prefer to run it back but I think you almost have to trade Poole for money reasons, preferably for two players as you suggested... you not only save the $7 mil that you mentioned but you don't have to pay another vet min player so essentially you save $9 mil. The total cost of that 14 man roster would be about $400 mil ($100 mil savings!). Would love for someone to check that b/c it sounds unreal... but again, it's not just being well above the aprons it's the repeater tax that is so punitive. I also understand that there may be a bit of relief as the 5 million 'penalty brackets' will increase proportionally to the increase in cap space but I don't think this would apply this year. It almost makes it moot with the new CBA 2nd apron penalties of no mid-level, trade rules, etc b/c I can't see the team adding salary.
If you just let Draymond walk... the savings sound ridiculous that I can't even write it here.
Do the Spurs need to bother shelling picks for a $30M player when theyre years from contending anyway? By the time they might be decent Poole will be approaching FA again
Or keep McDermott (bench shooting) and Collins (backup 5 and will make Sleepy happy) for one season, then let them walk after this coming season, and get salary relief for '24-'25 that lets us hold on to Kuminga, Moody, et al.
STOP Suggesting Rollins in any trade. Not the first time either.
I don't know if it's a legal trade without adding a bit of extra salary, so blame the CBA or blame the Warriors for not having more small contracts to trade. Maybe if they threw Kuminga in instead and altered the trade a bit.
I like the creative thinking.
Plus this is why I have to remind myself to be patient when the first trade is made by the FO. It may just be the first of a couple and not worth me spiraling about it!
Not sure if this was shared yet, but Warriors dropped a reel of Kuminga dunks on the season and as you might expect, there are some jaw-droppers: https://youtu.be/FRgm2XGtcY0
Was about to say he needs more lob highlights and then Steph casually throws a 3pt lob at the end!
He’s a keeper. Now play him Steve!!
Random but it's kind of funny how our 3-1 cougher in 2016 overshadowed the Thunder's 3-1 choke completely. I understand the stage wasn't as big as ours but its legit never talked about.
It's because people like to make a big deal of "never happened before in history", even if it's not significantly different than things that have happened. NBA teams up 3-1 in a series lose sometimes (not often, but it happens). But since it never had happened to occur during a Finals series before, then people lost their minds about "a team up 3-1 has never lost in Finals history before."
Dray+Poole to the Suns for KD with Dray on a sign and trade. The Warriors do it because if you can't win a championship with a starting 5 of Curry, Thompson, Wiggins, Durant, and Looney (if healthy) you need to start firing coaches. The Warriors keep the youngsters while saving $6M. Plus it makes the Dray-Poole dynamic somebody else's problem (or a 3rd team could be involved to split them up). The Suns do it because CP3 is old and they are pretty thin at forward in any case so will need one coming back.
Suns aren't going to do this trade though as they invested too much in getting KD to trade him out again after 1/2 season. [Edit: but they might if JK was included which also works]
[Edit 2: oops, works with Moody but not JK]
KD seems like a better fit for the Suns than Poole and Dray anyway. BTW when you ran the numbers, did you account for signing Dray to a big raise to entice him to agree to it?
Trading Places: Jordan Poole to Utah for Jordan Clarkson + 2025 1st Rd pick via MIN. Same player, but Clarkson a little more consistent and hasn't been punched by Dray .... yet. Utah does it because they liked the fit with Clarkson and they can have that for the next 4 years with Poole. They have a ton of picks, so letting one go to take a chance on Poole as a building block is a good play. GS does it because we get the same player who would be a little more reliable/predictable, also has made a living coming off the bench which has proved problematic with Poole. 1 year rental, Lester should take his spot in the lineup after that. It's also 14.4 million off the cap.
Love this. I see Clarkson and Poole as very good comps, but JC has the years of experience to see when he should find the open man instead of chucking. His passing this past season took a leap, and is where I hope JP can get to. But getting JC onboard would be a win-now (and cheaper) move. Don't think Utah's doing it, but if they would GSW should take it.
Second thoughts: I looked at their stats it's uncanny how nearly identical JP and JC were as players this past year. Same A:T ratio and Ast/game, same scoring (FG%, 3P%) within a point, almost the same minutes/g (both born in June too, incidentally). Surprisingly JP's steal and block rates are slightly better, though not great. If JP improves to more like last year's stats, he's the better player. Clarkson seems to have peaked as a shooter and distributor in his fourth season, when he was 23, as JP is now. If JP takes a leap next year, his upside could be worth his hefty contract in the long run. It all depends on what a lighter payroll could net the Dubs in the SC30 peak window. Glad I'm not a GM.
Clarkson makes $13 million on a deal that expires next summer, Poole makes $27 mil and is on a 4 year deal.
I think the Dubs would do this deal in a heartbeat just to get off of Poole's long contract (which is looking pretty risky now).
But, Utah seems to be shedding future salary and accumulating picks (probably to trade for a star when one is available). They basically gifted Jarred Vanderbilt to the Lakers for the privilege of getting off of half of Mike Conley's salary next year, and a pick.
I don't see any way Utah would go for this. I don't think they would do a Clarkson for Poole straight up trade, even.
At some point, a young team needs some vet leadership. Poole is young, but he has a great work ethic, he's won a chip, he's an alpha, and is young enough to remain a part of a long term plan with Utah, because he still needs some more development time. I think this is an easy call for Utah.
I would say that Utah's first priority is to find a tentpole star, unless you think of Markkenen as a number one on a playoff team (I think he's better suited as a number 2).
Your point about Poole is valid, it's just that he's being paid like a 2 or 3 in the rotation. Wayy too much money for Utah (small budget team).
But, your take is interesting ... I see Utah still doing their teardown. You seem to think they are ready to compete. I guess we'll find out in about six months.
Edit: Or maybe we'll find out in about 4 weeks, when we see who Utah is willing to trade in the offseason.
Any discussion with Utah should involve Lauri Markannen
rewatching game 6 of the boston series last year and the “DPOY” ducking the steph smoke in the 4th quarter was embarrassing. leaving horford on an island with 30 in crunch time makes no sense at all and smart should get his award revoked just for that.
the steph ‘ring me’ celebration midway through the 3rd only up 22 is the craziest thing ever too looking back at it. the disrespect. i love it.
> the steph ‘ring me’ celebration midway through the 3rd only up 22 is the craziest thing ever too looking back at it.
So were Draymond and Klay calling their shots about winning the series while down 2-1. Funny because I was told the Warriors were frontrunners.
>Funny because I was told the Warriors were frontrunners.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/QefT6WaAbKo
Classic.
EA’s “buy 6 get one free” joke goes straight over my head… I wish I got the joke, haha
Just another ridiculously cheap and minor coupon that I’m offering
Unfortunately the coupon also requires a $500 spending minimum in addition to being a premium subscription member. Gotta read the fine print
Got it, so you day job is as a barber or barista, lol
Well, I read about it and Ball got a cartilage replacement for his meniscus which is apparently a first for a professional athlete so I can understand the skepticism. Then again Tommy John had the first Tommy John surgery for a professional athlete and that seems to have worked out ok.
Bigger coincidence:Tommy John needing Tommy John surgery, or Lou Gehrig dying from Lou Gehrig’s disea- too soon?