I think Giddey has a lower floor and a higher ceiling. You can't teach elite court vision and ambidextrous passing. He's shooting 35% from three after his first handful of games against adults. May never be a plus defender.
Bouknight will almost certainly be a decent sixth-man type, but not sure how excited to be with Jordan Poole 2.0.
Both of these profile exactly as you would expect from mid-early to mid first round picks: clear upsides, obvious skills, obvious weaknesses.
On a personal level, I think I'm more excited to watch Giddey; I'm all about the creative passing and anticipation, and team-first play. But the team composition makes it hard; we're already at or above capacity for guys whose distance shooting is a non-threat.
From a team fit perspective, Bouknight makes a better case. While I don't fully subscribe to this idea, it's clear the NBA as a whole values "putting the ball in the basket" as the most important skill—which, to be fair, you're not going to win the game without doing plenty of that. That also implies that this is the kind of skill that'll be harder to acquire on the free agent market.
I don't think either of these are going to be in my top 3 choices, but if I had to pick, it's Bouknight. But there's also a part of me saying that's crazy and wants to be proven wrong.
I like both but I’m staying with Bouknight bc of shot creation which I think is biggest need. I do think both have high upsides (Bouknight more likely to help now imho). I do worry about fit bc of his subpar passing. Other prospects (Moody) may be safer, more seamless fit. Will have to trust front office and new voices from coaching staff to make that decision.
This one was super hard. I think I'll vote Bouknight, despite my many biases that lean towards Giddey. Not the most natural fit, but it it's easier to see him as starter or closing-lineup material some day. He is a bit redundant with Poole as well, so he unlocks less synergy for our line ups. Still, if he can't surpass Poole on the depth chart then perhaps this is all moot.
Still, there's a tinge of sadness not voting for Giddey -- it's so easy imagining high paced bench-minutes of Poole/Wiggins/Giddey/Duarte/Wiseman (Duarte as a worst-case safety pick). It seems like Giddey can unlock the fun, passing-heavy Warriors offense more than Bouknight can, at least on the bench where the bar to stay on the court is lower. Alas, with Draymond playing with the starters it's hard to see Giddey contributing to starting/closing line ups, even if he improves his shot.
I like Giddey but I can't see the Warriors taking him. His scoring is a lot more decent than many are giving him and he will improve. He's already a good rebounder and playmaker with exceptional skills and size. It would take guts to take him and the Warriors seem to do rather poorly drafting talent that they need to develop. Where is Jerry West when we need him?
I don't really want either of these guys at 7, and I don't think either will be around at 14, so I'm having a hard time caring... I think I lean Bouknight cause he just seems slightly less 1 dimensional. I'm imagining Ja Morant without the passing, but slightly better defense, which is nothing to sneeze at.
His passing is his one dimension (imho) I don't think his rebounding numbers (per 36) are particularly amazing for a tall non-shooter. That and I don't think of rebounding as having the same value as other facets of the game (shooting/defense/passing/finishing), but I'm open to being persuaded.
I'm not selling Giddey. I see a skilled basketball player who could develop into a star. Maybe we can say that about many of these prospects but what do the numbers tell us. It tells us that an 18 year old kid is playing in a pro league and leading it in two categories. The Warriors have no one on the bench who can approach his game and no one who can playmake with his size that can actually play the PG off the bench. In his interview with Bogut, who believes in him, he is working on his shot. He is not a 'bad' scorer, just not a prolific one at this point. His ft shooting is fine. He's a winner. I can see him leading the bench unit with Poole, DLee, JTA, and JW. A good young bench with energy.
This is a nitpick but if you look at totals and not rate stats then leading the league in rebounds just means he got a lot of playing time (which to be fair is not unimpressive for an 18y/o in a pro league). Rate-wise he's #30 in the league, which is still very good, but no longer league leading.
IIRC, Draymond's FT stats have not been glowing either, but his contribution to the team in general is not questioned. If you are a believer in 'improvement', it's not that bad. If you are a believer in 'stats stay the same', then doubt creeps in. There are no guarantees but his IQ is high and he studies the game. Look at what he's achieved at 18. Why focus on one weakness when there are real strengths to his game?
The difference is that Draymond's elite passing is his second best attribute behind his all time great defense. I've been racking my brain to come up with a comp for Giddey, and this is actually probably it -- no defense Draymond. Which sounds bad, but it actually makes me like him a little bit more. If Giddey's floor is Draymond's offense with the defense of... say... Danilo Gallinari, that's still a solid bench player I think. And then you can bet on the upside if his shot comes around.
FYI: James Bouknight did interview and work out for the Warriors in San Francisco today, I can confirm. @DaveBorges on it first. Bouknight is a tempting option at #7. Profiles as the best pure scorer likely to be available in that range.
This is a serious question and I don’t know how to put this gently but watching Giddey’s film session with Mike Schmitz, he looked like he had something on the lazy eye/cross-eyed realm. It wasn’t real pronounced, but I’m wondering if anyone knows whether that could affect someone’s ability to ever be a good shooter from deep.
Seems like Sharife Cooper also worked out today, that was announced 10 days ago though. As far as I can tell the Bouknight one wasn't publicized by anyone associated with the Warriors.
This guy appears to be a beat writer for UConn so I think this is legit. Doesn't seem like the Warriors publicized this one like the Mitchell/Moody/Kispert/Duarte/Murphy ones? Does that mean something? Who knows, any interpretation goes during draft season.
It’s important to figure out which layer of the inception deception we’re working on here. Are they trying to make it look like the like the guy? Are they trying to make it look like they look like the like the guy? Did the media team just forget?
This is the Bay Area. Someone ought to be able to develop an alternative universe-jumping time machine so we can figure out which guy actually performed better (looking at the past from 2030) with the Warriors.
Absent that, we have low correlation "past performance is the best predictor of future performance" (R = 0.39). I have no clue on any of these guys. I have a preference for people 6'4" and above (well, Curry), with lateral quickness (Chris Mullin?), highly internally motivated, willing to put the time in, and with high BB IQ. Other than that, I trust Myers, Kerr and company to challenge their own assumptions and pick great guys.
He’s exciting and can create, but I kinda think Poole is as “me first” a player as this team can effectively use. I’m voting for him, but not the guy I’d choose at 7 (Barnes, Moody, Wagner)
Giddey’s in that big bucket of guys I’d be happy to grab at 14, but not at 7.
They’re both “In Myers we trust” types who I’m not freak out about if either goes at 7.
I’ll break that tie with a vote for Giddey. Neither is a great shooter at this point. Yes, Bouknight shoots better from the line but I have more confidence in Giddey being willing to rebuild his shot than I do in, say, Bouknight learning to distribute. And I think people probably overvalue athleticism and undervalue vision and anticipation. I also want to see Giddey throwing lobs to JW more than Bouknight trading drives with Poole.
Jesus. Bouknight is a miles better shooter than Giddy, who couldn’t hit the broad side of the barn from 15 feet. His percentage is lower because he was the focal point of the offense, shooting contested shots of the bounce whereas teams dared Giddy to shoot. People are also forgetting that Bouknight didn’t start playing organized ball until high school.
The stuff that’s getting said in this thread is wild
You’re not wrong but “His percentage is lower because he was the focal point of the offense, shooting contested shots“ sounds a lot like poor shot selection. Also Bouknight’s a full two years older so yeah not changing my vote ;-)
I think Giddey has a lower floor and a higher ceiling. You can't teach elite court vision and ambidextrous passing. He's shooting 35% from three after his first handful of games against adults. May never be a plus defender.
Bouknight will almost certainly be a decent sixth-man type, but not sure how excited to be with Jordan Poole 2.0.
Giddey also a full 2 years younger.
So still on team Giddey by a nose.
Both of these profile exactly as you would expect from mid-early to mid first round picks: clear upsides, obvious skills, obvious weaknesses.
On a personal level, I think I'm more excited to watch Giddey; I'm all about the creative passing and anticipation, and team-first play. But the team composition makes it hard; we're already at or above capacity for guys whose distance shooting is a non-threat.
From a team fit perspective, Bouknight makes a better case. While I don't fully subscribe to this idea, it's clear the NBA as a whole values "putting the ball in the basket" as the most important skill—which, to be fair, you're not going to win the game without doing plenty of that. That also implies that this is the kind of skill that'll be harder to acquire on the free agent market.
I don't think either of these are going to be in my top 3 choices, but if I had to pick, it's Bouknight. But there's also a part of me saying that's crazy and wants to be proven wrong.
I like both but I’m staying with Bouknight bc of shot creation which I think is biggest need. I do think both have high upsides (Bouknight more likely to help now imho). I do worry about fit bc of his subpar passing. Other prospects (Moody) may be safer, more seamless fit. Will have to trust front office and new voices from coaching staff to make that decision.
This one was super hard. I think I'll vote Bouknight, despite my many biases that lean towards Giddey. Not the most natural fit, but it it's easier to see him as starter or closing-lineup material some day. He is a bit redundant with Poole as well, so he unlocks less synergy for our line ups. Still, if he can't surpass Poole on the depth chart then perhaps this is all moot.
Still, there's a tinge of sadness not voting for Giddey -- it's so easy imagining high paced bench-minutes of Poole/Wiggins/Giddey/Duarte/Wiseman (Duarte as a worst-case safety pick). It seems like Giddey can unlock the fun, passing-heavy Warriors offense more than Bouknight can, at least on the bench where the bar to stay on the court is lower. Alas, with Draymond playing with the starters it's hard to see Giddey contributing to starting/closing line ups, even if he improves his shot.
What are some examples of:
1. passing, non-shooters that became decent (or better) shooters later in the career... Jason Kidd is one that comes to mind
2. score-first players that later developed into decent (or better) playmakers
3. subpar defenders becoming decent (or better) defenders
1. Boris Diaw, Jalen Rose
2. Jimmy Butler (could be a #1, too) , Demar, Westbrook
3. So many of these guys. Most guys who give a crap can become ok over time.
1 JTA, hopefully. Lowry. Horford. Millsap. Griffin.
If by non-shooter you mean bad shooter, can add in guys like Lonzo and LaMelo (probably).
1. Kyle Lowry
2. Kawhi, KD, Harden
3. KD
1 Magic
2 Jordan
3 Maple Jordan
2 Jordan
3 Wiggins
3 Steph, Jordan
I like Giddey but I can't see the Warriors taking him. His scoring is a lot more decent than many are giving him and he will improve. He's already a good rebounder and playmaker with exceptional skills and size. It would take guts to take him and the Warriors seem to do rather poorly drafting talent that they need to develop. Where is Jerry West when we need him?
That jumper seem broke tho
To say the least
I don't really want either of these guys at 7, and I don't think either will be around at 14, so I'm having a hard time caring... I think I lean Bouknight cause he just seems slightly less 1 dimensional. I'm imagining Ja Morant without the passing, but slightly better defense, which is nothing to sneeze at.
Giddey led the league in rebounds and passing. How can that be one dimensional?
His passing is his one dimension (imho) I don't think his rebounding numbers (per 36) are particularly amazing for a tall non-shooter. That and I don't think of rebounding as having the same value as other facets of the game (shooting/defense/passing/finishing), but I'm open to being persuaded.
I'm not selling Giddey. I see a skilled basketball player who could develop into a star. Maybe we can say that about many of these prospects but what do the numbers tell us. It tells us that an 18 year old kid is playing in a pro league and leading it in two categories. The Warriors have no one on the bench who can approach his game and no one who can playmake with his size that can actually play the PG off the bench. In his interview with Bogut, who believes in him, he is working on his shot. He is not a 'bad' scorer, just not a prolific one at this point. His ft shooting is fine. He's a winner. I can see him leading the bench unit with Poole, DLee, JTA, and JW. A good young bench with energy.
This is a nitpick but if you look at totals and not rate stats then leading the league in rebounds just means he got a lot of playing time (which to be fair is not unimpressive for an 18y/o in a pro league). Rate-wise he's #30 in the league, which is still very good, but no longer league leading.
His FT shooting (69.1%) is not fine for a PG. Not horrible, but not fine.
IIRC, Draymond's FT stats have not been glowing either, but his contribution to the team in general is not questioned. If you are a believer in 'improvement', it's not that bad. If you are a believer in 'stats stay the same', then doubt creeps in. There are no guarantees but his IQ is high and he studies the game. Look at what he's achieved at 18. Why focus on one weakness when there are real strengths to his game?
The difference is that Draymond's elite passing is his second best attribute behind his all time great defense. I've been racking my brain to come up with a comp for Giddey, and this is actually probably it -- no defense Draymond. Which sounds bad, but it actually makes me like him a little bit more. If Giddey's floor is Draymond's offense with the defense of... say... Danilo Gallinari, that's still a solid bench player I think. And then you can bet on the upside if his shot comes around.
Because you said his FT shooting was fine.
Ummm… rebounding is important, m’kay?
That’s an egregious misconstruing of what was actually said. 3 demerits!
FYI: James Bouknight did interview and work out for the Warriors in San Francisco today, I can confirm. @DaveBorges on it first. Bouknight is a tempting option at #7. Profiles as the best pure scorer likely to be available in that range.
https://twitter.com/anthonyvslater/status/1417297530434457629?s=21
Sounds like a perfect pick for Orlando or OKC.
So eager to speak into existence Kuminga at 7 ??
😂/😭
This is a serious question and I don’t know how to put this gently but watching Giddey’s film session with Mike Schmitz, he looked like he had something on the lazy eye/cross-eyed realm. It wasn’t real pronounced, but I’m wondering if anyone knows whether that could affect someone’s ability to ever be a good shooter from deep.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DaveBorges/status/1417247599061573641
David Borges
@DaveBorges
Hearing James Bouknight had a great workout with Golden State today. Warriors pick at 7 and 14.
D’oh. Beli beat me to it.
Seems like Sharife Cooper also worked out today, that was announced 10 days ago though. As far as I can tell the Bouknight one wasn't publicized by anyone associated with the Warriors.
https://twitter.com/JDumasReports/status/1413624072173330436
> Hearing James Bouknight had a great workout with Golden State today. Warriors pick at 7 and 14.
https://twitter.com/DaveBorges/status/1417247599061573641
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This guy appears to be a beat writer for UConn so I think this is legit. Doesn't seem like the Warriors publicized this one like the Mitchell/Moody/Kispert/Duarte/Murphy ones? Does that mean something? Who knows, any interpretation goes during draft season.
#smokeszn
It's Moody time at #7
Remember what happened to the Egyptians when they didn't play ball with Moses? We want Moses on our side.
It’s important to figure out which layer of the inception deception we’re working on here. Are they trying to make it look like the like the guy? Are they trying to make it look like they look like the like the guy? Did the media team just forget?
Giddey. I'm a bigger fan of Josh Christopher than Bouknight.
This is the Bay Area. Someone ought to be able to develop an alternative universe-jumping time machine so we can figure out which guy actually performed better (looking at the past from 2030) with the Warriors.
Absent that, we have low correlation "past performance is the best predictor of future performance" (R = 0.39). I have no clue on any of these guys. I have a preference for people 6'4" and above (well, Curry), with lateral quickness (Chris Mullin?), highly internally motivated, willing to put the time in, and with high BB IQ. Other than that, I trust Myers, Kerr and company to challenge their own assumptions and pick great guys.
Sorry, once we build a time machine, we're first going to go back and wipe up Motiejunas's sweat and also get Jeremy Giambi to slide.
Oooh, can we also tell 2016 Iggy to two-hand dunk instead of laying it up?
…how about Eck striking out Gibson while we’re at it?
Giddey for me. The passing and upside are too tantalizing.
Boukmorning, Boukafternoon and Bouknight.
He’s exciting and can create, but I kinda think Poole is as “me first” a player as this team can effectively use. I’m voting for him, but not the guy I’d choose at 7 (Barnes, Moody, Wagner)
Giddey’s in that big bucket of guys I’d be happy to grab at 14, but not at 7.
They’re both “In Myers we trust” types who I’m not freak out about if either goes at 7.
I’ll break that tie with a vote for Giddey. Neither is a great shooter at this point. Yes, Bouknight shoots better from the line but I have more confidence in Giddey being willing to rebuild his shot than I do in, say, Bouknight learning to distribute. And I think people probably overvalue athleticism and undervalue vision and anticipation. I also want to see Giddey throwing lobs to JW more than Bouknight trading drives with Poole.
Jesus. Bouknight is a miles better shooter than Giddy, who couldn’t hit the broad side of the barn from 15 feet. His percentage is lower because he was the focal point of the offense, shooting contested shots of the bounce whereas teams dared Giddy to shoot. People are also forgetting that Bouknight didn’t start playing organized ball until high school.
The stuff that’s getting said in this thread is wild
You’re not wrong but “His percentage is lower because he was the focal point of the offense, shooting contested shots“ sounds a lot like poor shot selection. Also Bouknight’s a full two years older so yeah not changing my vote ;-)