2. We have no idea what kind of offers Donte will get. It wouldn't shock me if he's looking more at TPMLE-type offers ($6.5M), which is only a couple mil different from what the Warriors can give him ($4.7M if he picks up his option; I think possibly as high as $6.8M just with the standard 140% extension allowed under the new CBA, but I could be wrong about that). The few teams that can offer more than that are losing teams, which Donte has expressed distaste for (having never played for one, but for his brief and sad cup of coffee in SacTown).
Not sure why the Clips say yes, except to “shake things up” after years of frustration and get younger. They need a backcourt creator, too. PG has said he would love to play with GS, and I think he and Klay are tight.
Donte stays cos JP’s departure frees up minutes and a starting role, and no offers over the TPMLE materialize.
Steph-Donte-Wiggs-PG-Loon
Bench: Dray, Klay, Moody, Payton, Jerome, PBJ, Lamb, Rollins + vet min big.
I’m on the go get Pascal Siakam train myself. A deal with Poole and Kuminga works money wise. Obviously would have to throw in something else. Siakam gives the Dubs a legit second option plus brings much needed length and athleticism.
Yeah, Siakam intrigues me too, as a fantasy target. I think PG's a slightly better player than Siakam, but when you factor in durability and the four-year age difference it's probably close to a push.
Per my note below, I think both Siakam and George have the combo of passing skills, defense, and "legit big" qualities where you could envision either as a potential Draymond replacement, if we went that direction.
PG is 33 years old and I can't see that making an old team quite a bit older really helps all that much. Aside from that, comparing their years on BR, it is surprising how small the upgrade is from JK to PG, a couple of assists and FT per 36 and somewhat better defense.
Much better passing, 3 pt shooting, FT shooting, foul drawing, scoring, stealing. Better rebounding. We’d have a legit #2 shot creator, something we currently lack w JP’s regression. Overall, a legit second two-way star (which Klay is definitely not, and Wiggs is probably not). And another switchable, plug-and-play wing-forward who would be a super easy fit at the 3, 4 or even 5 in Kerrball.
But I can definitely buy the concerns about selling low on JK (whom I still think can be great) for a 33 year-old. I like the idea of building around a young wing duo of Moody + Kuminga, who I think can both plausibly be the level of, say, Jaylen Brown if not quite Tatum. I just think PG is an interesting target if Steph demands a more wholesale upgrade rather than just futzing around the edges.
Edit: variation on a theme, thinking about it a bit more: PG's high-level defense and passing actually makes him a nice replacement for Dray$, at the same age (60 days younger, lol). If we could figure out a way to turn Dray + Poole into PG — likely involving a third team — while keeping Kuminga, I'd be into that.
> I like the idea of building around a young wing duo of Moody + Kuminga
This is what I'd like to see us try to do. Moody's going to be OK, and maybe even a lot better than OK.
Kuminga isn't as reliable right now, but he's got tools, and people forget how far his on-ball defense came in a 1/2 a season ... he could pick up another high-level skill in the next year.
I keep wondering how things would’ve played out if Klay had come into the season in shape and if Wiggins hadn’t got hurt in the regular season and then had the extended absence.
Seems like the team would have been less likely to struggle and therefore chase wins right up until the end, which would’ve given them more breathing room to integrate Moody and Kuminga and allowed them to enter the playoffs less gassed.
(Yeah, I’m still in woulda/coulda/shoulda mode, but it’s tied to what should happen this off-season. I really hope Draymond was right about Klay being fired up to be ready next season.)
Kumingas clutch stats (all year not post all star)
He played in 17 games where in the last 5 minutes it was a 5 point game
Offensive rating 106.2
Defensive rating 100
TS% 69.8
Even his rebounding percentage went up
How many games did we lose in the fourth this year? How many times did kerr rely on jordan poole in the fourth?
Yea I dont want to hear it, this team wasnt a championship team because kerr wasnt a championship caliber coach this season, that's it that's all. Our youngins( moody and kuminga) were just fine and could have helped contribute to a championship, atleast we signed lamb instead of a big for the playoffs
[Wojnarowski] Bob Myers told me last night that he plans to take a couple weeks to make a decision about his future running the Golden State Warriors, and it's a decision that he said he is "torn about", in large part because of his relationships, he said, with the core 3 and his coach, Steve Kerr.
It'd help to hear his actual wording, but this doesn't mean he's gone? He knows the commitment it'd take and wants to make sure it sits right with himself/ his family... That said, it could also be a couple weeks to finalize succession plans given it sounds like (an Athletic article) the Warriors would promote internally instead of look outside.
So do we think this means there's now a final offer on the table from Lacob? Previously it has seemed like compensation was at issue. This quote sounds like it's other stuff, too.
That is actually not the case. Lacob has given bob multiple offers apparantly - it really is in Bob's court - not monetary reasons at all. So It think it is his mental state - does he want more of this stress or not. Is Steph's gravity still enough to keep him motivated for another 1-3 years or not?
Another interesting question is this: His contract is till end of June, but draft is before that. So, if he is involved deeply in the draft, that may be a sign!
I'm a Myers fan but if he is "torn about" a job that likely requires huge hours, massive pressure, difficult decisions etc, then probably should go. My guess is this job, to do well, requires passion and energy and big commitment if that is gone or wavering it doesn't serve him or the team. Sounds like he doesn't want to let people down. But of course just reading tea leaves here . .
I can't see Myers taking another basketball job if he doesn't stay with the Warriors. He has already made a ton of money as an agent and as a team executive so a couple of million dollars in salary either way can't be much of an incentive and he apparently has a good relationship with the owners as well as most of the players. The open GM jobs (or President if it is just a matter of a job title) are going to be with dysfunctional organizations. Who needs that headache?
Yeah it took me a minute to realize that the news today is another incident. I thought people were still talking about the last one. Kid's just dumb as hell. Still thinks that "thug life" shit makes him look cool or something. Straight up pathetic for a grown ass man.
“So, you know, my job now is, like I said, to be more responsible, more smarter, and don’t cause any of that no more.”
“I went there to counseling to learn how to manage stress. Cope with stress in a positive way, instead of ways I’ve tried to deal with it before that caused me to make mistakes."
Dude is straight up stupid. This isn't a stress management issue. He just thinks being a thug is cool, so he can't resist flashing guns and gang signs when he and his equally stupid friends are singing along to (exceptionally shitty) rap songs and broadcasting themselves to an audience of teenage wannabe gangsters.
-By taking out Vanderbilt and putting in Schroder, the Lakers had all five players who were scoring threats. Warriors had no way to hide Curry on defense on game 6, who was being targeted by LA.
-Knowing that Wiggins had a fractured rib, Lebron harassed Wiggins on offense (and got away with some pushes).
-Lakers had Davis ignore GPII and did a pre-switch with Lebron to ensure that Curry could not get the shots he wanted like he did in game 5.
-Warriors were under a lot of pressure due to them on the brink of elimination, which made them miss a lot of threes.
-Lebron was playing out of his mind.
-Warriors were looking deflated as the Lakers were putting up tough shots one after another, especially Poole who was racking up fouls and didn't want to be out there.
JJ reddick apparently made an interesting point about why Klay struggled against the lakers - he stated that the Steph pnrs actually hurt Klay the most since he was largely getting hurried jump shots as a result of that!
Some basketball mind here can probably explain it better to the rest of us!
I'm mixed about JJ comments. I understand what he said about PNR hurting rhythm, but he also said that Klay used to get a lot of layups from the original offense, and that's not really true.
After two days to decompress from Game 6, I came to some realizations:
1) JP needs to learn how to show a shadow of defensive effort (at the VERY LEAST) in order to stay a part of the Warriors immediate future (not even long-term).
2) Klay is no longer a No. 2 option. That should go to Wiggins, who outplayed him even with a broken rib and dealing with reintegration/emotional recovery after his extended absence.
3) The core overall is declining. The Big 3 should learn to loosen their grip on their reins and give the young guns some leeway. Moody was promising in the playoffs, and JK was lowkey phenomenal in the last third of the season. PBJ can be a viable stretch 5 in the future.
3a) The team needs to stop riding on the vets so much. There's only so far pedigree can take you when Father Time remains undefeated.
4) Kerr needs to get rid of his "play well or doghouse" mentality. It feels like it's stunting development, messing up team chemistry, and scaring young players/free agents from signing with us (this point is just based on vibes).
5) The title window is not closed. We just came off a brutal 7-game series with the fast-paced Kings and jumped immediately into a physical Lakers series and still took them to 6 games. That's with chemistry issues and a whole bunch of injuries/bad game rotations. I still have hope for the next two years.
JP’s regression when playing on the court with Curry was a massive warning sign that this season was in trouble. JP’s usage skyrocketed this year when on the floor with Curry and their net rating plummeted. The Warriors need to fix that or the championship window is closed.
I wish people would STOP with the "We tried that and went 3-7." During that time:
--Klay was shooting every time he touched the ball, destroying the offense.
--Klay & JP were complete turnstiles on defense, forcing the frontcourt into disastrous no-win situations
--The first team was committing a foul almost every defensive possession, leaving the second team in the bonus which deflated the second teams +/- and thus made the first team look better than they were.
If someone did not know these things, now they are known. Now that they are known, how can you blame 3-7 on the youngsters? The problem is, instead of holding Klay accountable and putting blame (and a demand to perform) on the JP/Klay paltry defense, Kerr panicked and benched the youngsters (probably because he didn't want to play them anyway). Well, did the team take off and win 9 of 10? NO. They stayed stuck in mediocrity, which is the surest evidence that JWise, JK, and MoodyJ were NOT the problem.
>--Klay was shooting every time he touched the ball, destroying the offense.
During the first ten games, Klay had two DNPs and only had more than 15 FGA thrice. I am all aboard criticizing him for not working out in the off-season and for his shot selection for a lot of the year, but trying to pin the failure of our "yOuNg cOrE" on his shoulders ain't happening
>Klay & JP were complete turnstiles on defense, forcing the frontcourt into disastrous no-win situations
That I fully agree on, but to act like Wiseman and Moody in particular weren't just as willing to lie down and die whenever it came to the defensive is silly.
>The first team was committing a foul almost every defensive possession, leaving the second team in the bonus which deflated the second teams +/- and thus made the first team look better than they were.
Now you are just making up things that suit your narrative. The FT differential in most of those 3-7 games were pretty much normal and the only starter that committed an excess of fouls in that period (compared to their normal output) was Draymond, who had to cover for all the blunders by the frontcourt you mentioned. If we wanna talk foul trouble during that period, why don't we talk about, say, Wiseman who managed to average a staggering 6.8 fouls per 36 minutes in that time period. The +/- of the second team was deflated because the second team was full of players who aren't that good at NBA basketball. There is a reason it only started stabilizing somewhat when Kerr started playing Draymond with the bench units.
>Well, did the team take off and win 9 of 10? NO. They stayed stuck in mediocrity, which is the surest evidence that JWise, JK, and MoodyJ were NOT the problem
After the 3-7 start the Warriors had the fourth-best winning percentage in the West and that is despite both Curry and Wiggins missing a large numbers of games. The youngsters were and are the problem. Why do you think Klay's legs were shot by the second round? Because he had to carry the offensive load for a lot of the regular season because our genius front office decided to have *five* children who ranged from unreliable to unplayable on the bench like the Warriors were a squad looking to tank for Wemby.
>--During the first ten games, Klay had two DNPs and only had more than 15 FGA thrice. I am all aboard criticizing him for not working out in the off-season and for his shot selection for a lot of the year, but trying to pin the failure of our "yOuNg cOrE" on his shoulders ain't happening
If you account for Klay's minutes restrictions that's shooting almost every time he touched the ball. It got so bad that 20 games later they had a team meeting and called him out. Don't you remember that? Also, you conveniently pick 15 shots as your limit. Here is Klay, Games 1-15
Game 1, 6 for 13
Game 2, 6 for 14 (so, those 2 games are under your 15 shots, but look horrible)
Game 3, 3 for 10
Game 4, 1 for 8
Game 5, 6 for 19 (torched by Devin Booker and ring-finger pointing)
Game 6, 5 for 14 (another game w/ excessive shooting just under your arbitrary threshold)
Game 7, B2B, DNP
Game 8, 10 for 24
Game 9, 6 for 18
Game 10, B2B, Inactive
Game 11, 6 for 16
Game 12, 3 for 13
Game 13, 6 for 16
Game 14, Inactive
Game 15, 6 for 17
The Dubs were 7-3 in the 10 games right after the young guns were benched. "Viola!," you might say, "It paid off!" Not so fast. In the first ten games the Dubs were 3-7 overall, but they were 3-1 at home and 0-6 on the road. Then they benched the young guns and went 6-0 at home and 1-3 on the road. The "improvement" wasn't because the young guns got benched, it was because the luck of the draw made more home games for the second ten games of the season, and the team performed better at home all year than they did on the road. The only team they beat on the road was Houston.
NOTE: This is what a patient, non-panicky coach might've realized and stayed the course after game 10 instead of making massive line-up changes after a young team goes on the road and gets beat early in the season.
I grant you Wiseman had his problems. But its gotta be hard when every time down the floor you are having to guard three people driving toward the rim after the POA defense waves them by. Even Dray looked horrible, and he's a DOPY. Why expect Wiseman to solve that problem, and why evaluate him harshly when he's playing under horrible conditions made the teammates? (I'll tell you why Kerr did that. Because he found it easier to blame a highly-touted lottery pick than to blame a core player he likes).
In sum, the evidence supports the widespread contention: 1)Klay was a key part of the early season problems, and 2)Benching the young guns didn't solve anything--in fact, it created more problems by forcing too great reliance on low-upside vets and the core 3.
"they tried that early in the season. Got a 3-7 start out of it."
Let's not blame the new kids for a 3-7 record. Warriors were bad right from the start. And Kerr had a whole season to figure it out - how to blend vets with the newbies. It was never more evident then against the Lakers. Poole completely disappeared. But Kerr wasn't going to let JK play ... because ...
Lol just looked it up, game number 8 against the heat, in the first quarter kerr played a ty jerome poole moody jmg wiseman lineup and kuminga got DNPd that night lmao n people got the nerve to question kumingas patience
That was with kerr playing lineups like jmg/looney
Kuminga jmg wiseman
Kuminga green jmg
A whole bunch of bullshit....
If kuminga was prioritized off rip with small ball lineups or kuminga jmg lineups we would have been fine. Wiseman should have worked his way up through garbage time n g league instead of getting thrown straight into the fire
Fans forget how badly the season started for the Warriors. It was completely obvious that the only chance the Warriors had to get into the playoffs was to minimize the playing time for our young guns who are not really ready to take on major roles in the rotation. Crying about Kuminga is useless. He's just not that good, yet. Potential? Sure. Myers got little help for the team this year so some of the 'blame' is on him. And, then there is Lacob, a much greater factor in how this team is put together than most people realize. He double downed on the starters and Poole. Gave Poole and Klay crazy contracts that are already biting them in the ass. They are in a financial maze that is extremely difficult to find their way out of.
That may have been true for the early part of the season. 1/3rd of the season through, the core consistently choked games in the 4th quarter. The last 1/3rd of the season was more of the same - largely losing games in the 4th quarter since the big 3 could not perform (yes, wiggs was missing). But this blaming the youngones is way overblown and heightened since it happened in the early part of the season. A big reminder: Klay was big part of the early part of the season and he was selfish and bad - like he was during the playoffs!
The bad habits of the season cost the Warriors 2 games in this series. Gotta do better next year. Would also like to see real rotations next year (as always I expect to be disappointed in that respect.)
My comment was explaining why the damm team was so fucking bad, not only was the front court rotation fucked, kerr always was using hockey rotations between the vets and the youngin which was wild
This point is what we've seen from JK in the latter third of the season and Moody in the playoffs. Both were good during their respective playing times, and I 100% agree with you if this was based on the first third/half of the season. But like they gave Poole a greater role after the 2020-2021 season, they need to do that with JK and Moody. And that takes away from the Core 3's minutes.
So I broadly agree with your assessments, db. I don't know if I agree with point 4 though.
A counterargument to the "play well or doghouse"/ youth movement thing in general is that you shouldn't play around with a championship quality team. LBJ and AD are showing more severe signs of decline; the Lakers leaned into their core harder and it bore fruit. AD's on the team because of the same reason. The approach of using our down years to acquire assets made sense bc we had no idea that the core group would be able to play healthy and near their peak once everyone came back from injury and it turned out they mostly could, so maybe we shouldn't have a team where the entirety of the depth is a bunch of 23yo or younger players? When you're gunning for a championship, you need lineups that can execute.
Otoh, I get why you'd want Kerr to adjust since our bench is now basically all young players. I think team chemistry would be more easily fixed if the people on the team were more aligned to a single purpose (i.e. a couple younger players, mainly vets).
Point 4 is just based on my vibes, so yeah I get that. But at the same time, it wasn't fair to Kuminga to completely go away from him in the Lakers series after he had played well during Wiggins' absence and when we desperately needed a body for LBJ and AD.
barnes over poole and klay - poole = $3.5M, Klay = +$35M - way to unfair on Poole in his 3rd year as compared to a 35 to 40$M player - no matter how good he was 3 years ago!
“If I don’t finish first, it’s a failure. I don’t think I would have been proud of myself going to the Finals & losing. I freakin hate losing. If you want to call me the best player on the team, every loss & failure should be on me. It’s all on me. I will be better”
I'm SOOOOOOOOO disappointed that another year goes by with CP3 and Harden not winning a ring. It's almost like winning to watch them flame out again. Harden in Game 7 vs. Boston: 41 minutes 3-11 for 9 points, -30.
ha ha haaaaaaa doctor Asher - thats the steph curry viral effect - only one guy seems to be immune to that - Lewhine Jaymesh - we need to increase efficay to 100% soon - at least thats what the CDC wants!
If anyone on Memphis would be dumb enough, sure. Ja may have some off court troubles and some on court hesitations but he's a ridiculous scoring threat.
Would you do Poole for Kyrie? Asking because Morant's off court issues related to gun and other violence are significantly more serious than Kyrie's; Ja might get suspended for half of next season.
Absolutely not. I don't know enough about Ja's suspension to say, but I do know enough about Kyrie's career to say it's not anything the Warriors need.
Besides superman dunks? How about an all around scoring game that is one of the most elite we've seen, as well as passing and rebounding? Sure he has weaknesses, but I don't understand this debate at all. The question was Poole for Morant. Is anyone seriously confused about this?
So where do you move Klay, the 3? Then what happens to Wiggins? And Loon? And Dray? Not seeing how adding Ja helps much. It just adds another defensive hole and leaves intact the frontcourt problems.
I know this half tongue and cheek, but the gun thing is something that might put someone in a permanent Steve Kerr "doghouse." The hair does not at all.
Just kidding about the hair. But Ja really screwed the pooch this time. His sincere corporate apology was perfect. When was that 3-4 weeks ago. The issue really is, will it happen again. So you trade away good players, and players you've spent time developing to get Ja. And your winning and the Ja trade makes Myers look like GM of the year - again. And then Ja fucks up again. Not only is the season gone, the future (the players you traded) is now in question. So you start over but by that time you've already been fired. Talk about stress!
Even with our loss this year, we've seen more titles during this run than life-long fans of 75% of the teams in the league. There have been some lows, but so many good memories (with more to come).
New piece, which also serves as the new open thread: https://dubnationhq.com/p/the-state-of-the-2023-24-warriors?sd=pf
Great deal for Clippers. George is like 35 and injury prone.
Donte is moving on 'cause in Warrior option is about half of what he'll get elsewhere. And no Warriors can't up it to match and keep him.
1. George turned 33 two weeks ago.
2. We have no idea what kind of offers Donte will get. It wouldn't shock me if he's looking more at TPMLE-type offers ($6.5M), which is only a couple mil different from what the Warriors can give him ($4.7M if he picks up his option; I think possibly as high as $6.8M just with the standard 140% extension allowed under the new CBA, but I could be wrong about that). The few teams that can offer more than that are losing teams, which Donte has expressed distaste for (having never played for one, but for his brief and sad cup of coffee in SacTown).
3. The "Reply" button is your friend. :-)
Throwing it out there: JK + JP for Paul George.
Not sure why the Clips say yes, except to “shake things up” after years of frustration and get younger. They need a backcourt creator, too. PG has said he would love to play with GS, and I think he and Klay are tight.
Donte stays cos JP’s departure frees up minutes and a starting role, and no offers over the TPMLE materialize.
Steph-Donte-Wiggs-PG-Loon
Bench: Dray, Klay, Moody, Payton, Jerome, PBJ, Lamb, Rollins + vet min big.
I’m on the go get Pascal Siakam train myself. A deal with Poole and Kuminga works money wise. Obviously would have to throw in something else. Siakam gives the Dubs a legit second option plus brings much needed length and athleticism.
Yeah, Siakam intrigues me too, as a fantasy target. I think PG's a slightly better player than Siakam, but when you factor in durability and the four-year age difference it's probably close to a push.
Per my note below, I think both Siakam and George have the combo of passing skills, defense, and "legit big" qualities where you could envision either as a potential Draymond replacement, if we went that direction.
Pg slightly better then siakam? Nah, siakam a career 32% 3 pt shooter
Right, and PG's a career 38%, or closer to 40% since he hit his peak. That's one of the biggest reasons PG's the better player.
Are you saying PG's significantly better, not just slightly better?
To make that work money wise you have to throw in Pbj and Rollins. I would be worried about PG’s health though.
I mean I'd certainly do it but I don't think the Clippers would
EDIT: Actually, don't think that trade is legal. Cannot aggregate salary for a higher salaried player from what I understand.
Oh yeah, good point about the aggregation. New CBA rules are brutal!
Basically the only allowable trade then would be a simple Klay straight up swap for PG. Which ... I would also do, sad as it would make me.
PG is 33 years old and I can't see that making an old team quite a bit older really helps all that much. Aside from that, comparing their years on BR, it is surprising how small the upgrade is from JK to PG, a couple of assists and FT per 36 and somewhat better defense.
Much better passing, 3 pt shooting, FT shooting, foul drawing, scoring, stealing. Better rebounding. We’d have a legit #2 shot creator, something we currently lack w JP’s regression. Overall, a legit second two-way star (which Klay is definitely not, and Wiggs is probably not). And another switchable, plug-and-play wing-forward who would be a super easy fit at the 3, 4 or even 5 in Kerrball.
But I can definitely buy the concerns about selling low on JK (whom I still think can be great) for a 33 year-old. I like the idea of building around a young wing duo of Moody + Kuminga, who I think can both plausibly be the level of, say, Jaylen Brown if not quite Tatum. I just think PG is an interesting target if Steph demands a more wholesale upgrade rather than just futzing around the edges.
Edit: variation on a theme, thinking about it a bit more: PG's high-level defense and passing actually makes him a nice replacement for Dray$, at the same age (60 days younger, lol). If we could figure out a way to turn Dray + Poole into PG — likely involving a third team — while keeping Kuminga, I'd be into that.
> I like the idea of building around a young wing duo of Moody + Kuminga
This is what I'd like to see us try to do. Moody's going to be OK, and maybe even a lot better than OK.
Kuminga isn't as reliable right now, but he's got tools, and people forget how far his on-ball defense came in a 1/2 a season ... he could pick up another high-level skill in the next year.
No.
I keep wondering how things would’ve played out if Klay had come into the season in shape and if Wiggins hadn’t got hurt in the regular season and then had the extended absence.
Seems like the team would have been less likely to struggle and therefore chase wins right up until the end, which would’ve given them more breathing room to integrate Moody and Kuminga and allowed them to enter the playoffs less gassed.
(Yeah, I’m still in woulda/coulda/shoulda mode, but it’s tied to what should happen this off-season. I really hope Draymond was right about Klay being fired up to be ready next season.)
Kumingas clutch stats (all year not post all star)
He played in 17 games where in the last 5 minutes it was a 5 point game
Offensive rating 106.2
Defensive rating 100
TS% 69.8
Even his rebounding percentage went up
How many games did we lose in the fourth this year? How many times did kerr rely on jordan poole in the fourth?
Yea I dont want to hear it, this team wasnt a championship team because kerr wasnt a championship caliber coach this season, that's it that's all. Our youngins( moody and kuminga) were just fine and could have helped contribute to a championship, atleast we signed lamb instead of a big for the playoffs
Jordan poole 26 games played with 5 minutes left 5 point game
.67 assist turnover ratio
50% TS
It’s nice when Doc Rivers and James Harden both lose.
[Wojnarowski] Bob Myers told me last night that he plans to take a couple weeks to make a decision about his future running the Golden State Warriors, and it's a decision that he said he is "torn about", in large part because of his relationships, he said, with the core 3 and his coach, Steve Kerr.
https://old.reddit.com/r/warriors/comments/13hlzpp/wojnarowski_bob_myers_told_me_last_night_that_he/
I think he'll stay
As a wise man one said, he gone
This sounds like Meyers is ‘torn’ about LEAVING the Warriors because of his relationships with the core three and Kerr. So, he’s gone.
Lol. Was that sarcasm?
It'd help to hear his actual wording, but this doesn't mean he's gone? He knows the commitment it'd take and wants to make sure it sits right with himself/ his family... That said, it could also be a couple weeks to finalize succession plans given it sounds like (an Athletic article) the Warriors would promote internally instead of look outside.
Sounds like he’s gone.
To me, this reads like he is done.
So do we think this means there's now a final offer on the table from Lacob? Previously it has seemed like compensation was at issue. This quote sounds like it's other stuff, too.
That is actually not the case. Lacob has given bob multiple offers apparantly - it really is in Bob's court - not monetary reasons at all. So It think it is his mental state - does he want more of this stress or not. Is Steph's gravity still enough to keep him motivated for another 1-3 years or not?
Another interesting question is this: His contract is till end of June, but draft is before that. So, if he is involved deeply in the draft, that may be a sign!
It probably isn't fun to sign young players and the only time you get to see them perform is during warm-ups before the game.
I'm a Myers fan but if he is "torn about" a job that likely requires huge hours, massive pressure, difficult decisions etc, then probably should go. My guess is this job, to do well, requires passion and energy and big commitment if that is gone or wavering it doesn't serve him or the team. Sounds like he doesn't want to let people down. But of course just reading tea leaves here . .
Just dealing with Draymond probably aged him 20 years
I can't see Myers taking another basketball job if he doesn't stay with the Warriors. He has already made a ton of money as an agent and as a team executive so a couple of million dollars in salary either way can't be much of an incentive and he apparently has a good relationship with the owners as well as most of the players. The open GM jobs (or President if it is just a matter of a job title) are going to be with dysfunctional organizations. Who needs that headache?
Whoa Ja flashed another gun??
This guy is dooming his NBA career in front of our eyes. 10...9... 8...
…and perhaps his life
Yeah it took me a minute to realize that the news today is another incident. I thought people were still talking about the last one. Kid's just dumb as hell. Still thinks that "thug life" shit makes him look cool or something. Straight up pathetic for a grown ass man.
Can’t fix stupid
Ja before the latest gun thing:
“So, you know, my job now is, like I said, to be more responsible, more smarter, and don’t cause any of that no more.”
“I went there to counseling to learn how to manage stress. Cope with stress in a positive way, instead of ways I’ve tried to deal with it before that caused me to make mistakes."
Dude is straight up stupid. This isn't a stress management issue. He just thinks being a thug is cool, so he can't resist flashing guns and gang signs when he and his equally stupid friends are singing along to (exceptionally shitty) rap songs and broadcasting themselves to an audience of teenage wannabe gangsters.
Coach Nick did a breakdown of the game 6 of the Warriors-Lakers series:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zjP38-XGxk
Takeaways:
-By taking out Vanderbilt and putting in Schroder, the Lakers had all five players who were scoring threats. Warriors had no way to hide Curry on defense on game 6, who was being targeted by LA.
-Knowing that Wiggins had a fractured rib, Lebron harassed Wiggins on offense (and got away with some pushes).
-Lakers had Davis ignore GPII and did a pre-switch with Lebron to ensure that Curry could not get the shots he wanted like he did in game 5.
-Warriors were under a lot of pressure due to them on the brink of elimination, which made them miss a lot of threes.
-Lebron was playing out of his mind.
-Warriors were looking deflated as the Lakers were putting up tough shots one after another, especially Poole who was racking up fouls and didn't want to be out there.
Also shows how kerr opted to keep trying to get klay shots instead of letting curry run the show in the pick n roll
JJ reddick apparently made an interesting point about why Klay struggled against the lakers - he stated that the Steph pnrs actually hurt Klay the most since he was largely getting hurried jump shots as a result of that!
Some basketball mind here can probably explain it better to the rest of us!
I'm mixed about JJ comments. I understand what he said about PNR hurting rhythm, but he also said that Klay used to get a lot of layups from the original offense, and that's not really true.
That's forsure but at the same time klays been struggling so why go against what's working to hope klay hits 3s in an elimination game
Yup. That is why Kerr is always about motion offense
And how'd that workout for us
After two days to decompress from Game 6, I came to some realizations:
1) JP needs to learn how to show a shadow of defensive effort (at the VERY LEAST) in order to stay a part of the Warriors immediate future (not even long-term).
2) Klay is no longer a No. 2 option. That should go to Wiggins, who outplayed him even with a broken rib and dealing with reintegration/emotional recovery after his extended absence.
3) The core overall is declining. The Big 3 should learn to loosen their grip on their reins and give the young guns some leeway. Moody was promising in the playoffs, and JK was lowkey phenomenal in the last third of the season. PBJ can be a viable stretch 5 in the future.
3a) The team needs to stop riding on the vets so much. There's only so far pedigree can take you when Father Time remains undefeated.
4) Kerr needs to get rid of his "play well or doghouse" mentality. It feels like it's stunting development, messing up team chemistry, and scaring young players/free agents from signing with us (this point is just based on vibes).
5) The title window is not closed. We just came off a brutal 7-game series with the fast-paced Kings and jumped immediately into a physical Lakers series and still took them to 6 games. That's with chemistry issues and a whole bunch of injuries/bad game rotations. I still have hope for the next two years.
JP’s regression when playing on the court with Curry was a massive warning sign that this season was in trouble. JP’s usage skyrocketed this year when on the floor with Curry and their net rating plummeted. The Warriors need to fix that or the championship window is closed.
>The Big 3 should learn to loosen their grip on their reins and give the young guns some leeway.
They tried that early in the season. Got a 3-7 start out of it. Our young players just are not that good.
I wish people would STOP with the "We tried that and went 3-7." During that time:
--Klay was shooting every time he touched the ball, destroying the offense.
--Klay & JP were complete turnstiles on defense, forcing the frontcourt into disastrous no-win situations
--The first team was committing a foul almost every defensive possession, leaving the second team in the bonus which deflated the second teams +/- and thus made the first team look better than they were.
If someone did not know these things, now they are known. Now that they are known, how can you blame 3-7 on the youngsters? The problem is, instead of holding Klay accountable and putting blame (and a demand to perform) on the JP/Klay paltry defense, Kerr panicked and benched the youngsters (probably because he didn't want to play them anyway). Well, did the team take off and win 9 of 10? NO. They stayed stuck in mediocrity, which is the surest evidence that JWise, JK, and MoodyJ were NOT the problem.
>--Klay was shooting every time he touched the ball, destroying the offense.
During the first ten games, Klay had two DNPs and only had more than 15 FGA thrice. I am all aboard criticizing him for not working out in the off-season and for his shot selection for a lot of the year, but trying to pin the failure of our "yOuNg cOrE" on his shoulders ain't happening
>Klay & JP were complete turnstiles on defense, forcing the frontcourt into disastrous no-win situations
That I fully agree on, but to act like Wiseman and Moody in particular weren't just as willing to lie down and die whenever it came to the defensive is silly.
>The first team was committing a foul almost every defensive possession, leaving the second team in the bonus which deflated the second teams +/- and thus made the first team look better than they were.
Now you are just making up things that suit your narrative. The FT differential in most of those 3-7 games were pretty much normal and the only starter that committed an excess of fouls in that period (compared to their normal output) was Draymond, who had to cover for all the blunders by the frontcourt you mentioned. If we wanna talk foul trouble during that period, why don't we talk about, say, Wiseman who managed to average a staggering 6.8 fouls per 36 minutes in that time period. The +/- of the second team was deflated because the second team was full of players who aren't that good at NBA basketball. There is a reason it only started stabilizing somewhat when Kerr started playing Draymond with the bench units.
>Well, did the team take off and win 9 of 10? NO. They stayed stuck in mediocrity, which is the surest evidence that JWise, JK, and MoodyJ were NOT the problem
After the 3-7 start the Warriors had the fourth-best winning percentage in the West and that is despite both Curry and Wiggins missing a large numbers of games. The youngsters were and are the problem. Why do you think Klay's legs were shot by the second round? Because he had to carry the offensive load for a lot of the regular season because our genius front office decided to have *five* children who ranged from unreliable to unplayable on the bench like the Warriors were a squad looking to tank for Wemby.
Klon
1 hr ago
>--During the first ten games, Klay had two DNPs and only had more than 15 FGA thrice. I am all aboard criticizing him for not working out in the off-season and for his shot selection for a lot of the year, but trying to pin the failure of our "yOuNg cOrE" on his shoulders ain't happening
If you account for Klay's minutes restrictions that's shooting almost every time he touched the ball. It got so bad that 20 games later they had a team meeting and called him out. Don't you remember that? Also, you conveniently pick 15 shots as your limit. Here is Klay, Games 1-15
Game 1, 6 for 13
Game 2, 6 for 14 (so, those 2 games are under your 15 shots, but look horrible)
Game 3, 3 for 10
Game 4, 1 for 8
Game 5, 6 for 19 (torched by Devin Booker and ring-finger pointing)
Game 6, 5 for 14 (another game w/ excessive shooting just under your arbitrary threshold)
Game 7, B2B, DNP
Game 8, 10 for 24
Game 9, 6 for 18
Game 10, B2B, Inactive
Game 11, 6 for 16
Game 12, 3 for 13
Game 13, 6 for 16
Game 14, Inactive
Game 15, 6 for 17
The Dubs were 7-3 in the 10 games right after the young guns were benched. "Viola!," you might say, "It paid off!" Not so fast. In the first ten games the Dubs were 3-7 overall, but they were 3-1 at home and 0-6 on the road. Then they benched the young guns and went 6-0 at home and 1-3 on the road. The "improvement" wasn't because the young guns got benched, it was because the luck of the draw made more home games for the second ten games of the season, and the team performed better at home all year than they did on the road. The only team they beat on the road was Houston.
NOTE: This is what a patient, non-panicky coach might've realized and stayed the course after game 10 instead of making massive line-up changes after a young team goes on the road and gets beat early in the season.
I grant you Wiseman had his problems. But its gotta be hard when every time down the floor you are having to guard three people driving toward the rim after the POA defense waves them by. Even Dray looked horrible, and he's a DOPY. Why expect Wiseman to solve that problem, and why evaluate him harshly when he's playing under horrible conditions made the teammates? (I'll tell you why Kerr did that. Because he found it easier to blame a highly-touted lottery pick than to blame a core player he likes).
In sum, the evidence supports the widespread contention: 1)Klay was a key part of the early season problems, and 2)Benching the young guns didn't solve anything--in fact, it created more problems by forcing too great reliance on low-upside vets and the core 3.
"they tried that early in the season. Got a 3-7 start out of it."
Let's not blame the new kids for a 3-7 record. Warriors were bad right from the start. And Kerr had a whole season to figure it out - how to blend vets with the newbies. It was never more evident then against the Lakers. Poole completely disappeared. But Kerr wasn't going to let JK play ... because ...
Lol just looked it up, game number 8 against the heat, in the first quarter kerr played a ty jerome poole moody jmg wiseman lineup and kuminga got DNPd that night lmao n people got the nerve to question kumingas patience
And they have the nerve to blame Wiseman for poor play when he probably hadn't been in that odd lineup ever before.
Game 9 a loss against the magic kerr plays curry poole moody jmg wiseman in the first quarter lol
That was with kerr playing lineups like jmg/looney
Kuminga jmg wiseman
Kuminga green jmg
A whole bunch of bullshit....
If kuminga was prioritized off rip with small ball lineups or kuminga jmg lineups we would have been fine. Wiseman should have worked his way up through garbage time n g league instead of getting thrown straight into the fire
Fans forget how badly the season started for the Warriors. It was completely obvious that the only chance the Warriors had to get into the playoffs was to minimize the playing time for our young guns who are not really ready to take on major roles in the rotation. Crying about Kuminga is useless. He's just not that good, yet. Potential? Sure. Myers got little help for the team this year so some of the 'blame' is on him. And, then there is Lacob, a much greater factor in how this team is put together than most people realize. He double downed on the starters and Poole. Gave Poole and Klay crazy contracts that are already biting them in the ass. They are in a financial maze that is extremely difficult to find their way out of.
That may have been true for the early part of the season. 1/3rd of the season through, the core consistently choked games in the 4th quarter. The last 1/3rd of the season was more of the same - largely losing games in the 4th quarter since the big 3 could not perform (yes, wiggs was missing). But this blaming the youngones is way overblown and heightened since it happened in the early part of the season. A big reminder: Klay was big part of the early part of the season and he was selfish and bad - like he was during the playoffs!
The bad habits of the season cost the Warriors 2 games in this series. Gotta do better next year. Would also like to see real rotations next year (as always I expect to be disappointed in that respect.)
I'm not blaming the young guns. The team failed to produce. It's on everyone.
My comment was explaining why the damm team was so fucking bad, not only was the front court rotation fucked, kerr always was using hockey rotations between the vets and the youngin which was wild
This point is what we've seen from JK in the latter third of the season and Moody in the playoffs. Both were good during their respective playing times, and I 100% agree with you if this was based on the first third/half of the season. But like they gave Poole a greater role after the 2020-2021 season, they need to do that with JK and Moody. And that takes away from the Core 3's minutes.
So I broadly agree with your assessments, db. I don't know if I agree with point 4 though.
A counterargument to the "play well or doghouse"/ youth movement thing in general is that you shouldn't play around with a championship quality team. LBJ and AD are showing more severe signs of decline; the Lakers leaned into their core harder and it bore fruit. AD's on the team because of the same reason. The approach of using our down years to acquire assets made sense bc we had no idea that the core group would be able to play healthy and near their peak once everyone came back from injury and it turned out they mostly could, so maybe we shouldn't have a team where the entirety of the depth is a bunch of 23yo or younger players? When you're gunning for a championship, you need lineups that can execute.
Otoh, I get why you'd want Kerr to adjust since our bench is now basically all young players. I think team chemistry would be more easily fixed if the people on the team were more aligned to a single purpose (i.e. a couple younger players, mainly vets).
Point 4 is just based on my vibes, so yeah I get that. But at the same time, it wasn't fair to Kuminga to completely go away from him in the Lakers series after he had played well during Wiggins' absence and when we desperately needed a body for LBJ and AD.
2023 playoff Jordan Poole vs 2016 nba finals Harrison Barnes. Who would you want?
I’ll have to say for all the shit I gave Barnes I’d rather have him over the crap version of Poole this year.
I’m giving 2023 second round klay a pass for this year on humanitarian and legacy grounds.
Barnes
barnes over poole and klay - poole = $3.5M, Klay = +$35M - way to unfair on Poole in his 3rd year as compared to a 35 to 40$M player - no matter how good he was 3 years ago!
You're comparing apples and oranges.
Rotten apples and moldy oranges, that is.
shite happens.
Barnes by a mile. One player missed open threes. The other player missed open threes and was also effectively a secret agent for the opposing team.
Harry B easily.
Barnes could defend. Also Barnes struggled with a high ankle sprain that latter half of the year. Wasn’t quite the same.
“If I don’t finish first, it’s a failure. I don’t think I would have been proud of myself going to the Finals & losing. I freakin hate losing. If you want to call me the best player on the team, every loss & failure should be on me. It’s all on me. I will be better”
-Joel Embiid
https://twitter.com/jclarknbcs/status/1657889615955521539
I like that shows signs of a true leader
He also said he and Harden couldn’t do it alone after they both got outscored by Maxey and Harris in the elimination game.
Coaches everyone knows are outstanding, except they don't seem to be outstanding:
Ty Lue, Clippers, first round flame out. Mike Brown, Kings, outcoached in first round, out. Monty Williams, Suns, second round disappointment.
Coach who seems to do more than everyone expects: Spoelstra.
I'm SOOOOOOOOO disappointed that another year goes by with CP3 and Harden not winning a ring. It's almost like winning to watch them flame out again. Harden in Game 7 vs. Boston: 41 minutes 3-11 for 9 points, -30.
ha ha haaaaaaa doctor Asher - thats the steph curry viral effect - only one guy seems to be immune to that - Lewhine Jaymesh - we need to increase efficay to 100% soon - at least thats what the CDC wants!
vintage
So..... Poole for Ja?
*ducks and hides*
Now would be a good time for Bane and/or JJJ to demand a trade to get away from that lunatic. Poole + Rollins for JJJ + Bane call it into the league.
If anyone on Memphis would be dumb enough, sure. Ja may have some off court troubles and some on court hesitations but he's a ridiculous scoring threat.
Would you do Poole for Kyrie? Asking because Morant's off court issues related to gun and other violence are significantly more serious than Kyrie's; Ja might get suspended for half of next season.
Absolutely not. I don't know enough about Ja's suspension to say, but I do know enough about Kyrie's career to say it's not anything the Warriors need.
Honestly neither player's off court issues is something the Warriors need, hence the tongue-in-cheek post.
Kyrie's a political timebomb and Ja has lost all credibility. The NBA has spent decades cleaning up it's image. And it's worked well.
Was asking as a hypothetical because I'm curious how people see Ja's issues in comparison to Kyrie's.
Neither of these trades has a chance of happening.
Kyrie is impossible to trade for or sign mathematically so it’s a moot point, but he’s pretty useless at driving winning these days.
Ja is possible to trade for (if the CBA 1for1 clause hasn’t kicked in yet) but would he be able to learn from Curry’s lifestyle?
Besides superman dunks? How about an all around scoring game that is one of the most elite we've seen, as well as passing and rebounding? Sure he has weaknesses, but I don't understand this debate at all. The question was Poole for Morant. Is anyone seriously confused about this?
How he fits in: great. The question is absurd. A driving threat to complement an outside shooting threat helps both.
So where do you move Klay, the 3? Then what happens to Wiggins? And Loon? And Dray? Not seeing how adding Ja helps much. It just adds another defensive hole and leaves intact the frontcourt problems.
- A hairstyle that is currently not kerr approved
- a defense that is definitely NOT kerr approved
"Kerr approved". Ain't it so. Kerr would probably sit him till he got a "respectable" haircut. If Kerr doesn't approve, you sit. Just ask JK.
I know this half tongue and cheek, but the gun thing is something that might put someone in a permanent Steve Kerr "doghouse." The hair does not at all.
Just kidding about the hair. But Ja really screwed the pooch this time. His sincere corporate apology was perfect. When was that 3-4 weeks ago. The issue really is, will it happen again. So you trade away good players, and players you've spent time developing to get Ja. And your winning and the Ja trade makes Myers look like GM of the year - again. And then Ja fucks up again. Not only is the season gone, the future (the players you traded) is now in question. So you start over but by that time you've already been fired. Talk about stress!
"with battle gear" replying - Absolutely not "We fine in the west" without Ja MORON
Must be fun when Dillon Brooks is (was) only the second dumbest player on your team.
Get a brain, Morants!!!
Outstanding. Surprised no one has ‘shopped that pic accordingly….
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgpP3JQU8AAX0a4.jpg
Teams with more titles in their entire history than the Warriors have since 2015:
- Lakers
- Celtics
- Bulls
- Spurs
@loon - what was the point of that? I missed the joke completely - so now - you gotta explain
Even with our loss this year, we've seen more titles during this run than life-long fans of 75% of the teams in the league. There have been some lows, but so many good memories (with more to come).
Glad that you clarified that! Why is 2015 needed though?
To establish how much they accomplished in a short timespan?
He’s saying (I assume) that there’s only four teams with more than four titles. Obviously, no one has more than the dubs during that time.