He's always been a top tier interior presence but I think this might be the first year of him being much more than just a ooga booga big man blocking shots. It also helps his supporting cast is making his job much easier too
Good point. That's how I always thought of him too. According to the ESPN article, he was stellar at switching as well:
"Gobert's dominance extended beyond the paint. He thrived in switch situations, allowing the fewest points per direct isolations among players to defend at least 175 isolation possessions, according to Second Spectrum tracking. He also excelled as a pick-and-roll defender, allowing the third-fewest points per direct pick among screener defenders to defend at least 1,000 on-ball picks."
The superstar that will next take the Warriors to the WC Finals is likely doing basic drills in a middle school gym as of today, maybe high school if we're lucky.
The last chance to stay in near-term relevance via a re-load was blowing up the team for picks and young talent after the '22 ship, but imagine the grief the FO and ownership would gotten for doing that. They would have been blamed for blowing the unique chance at a fifth ring and definite dynasty status. Fans would have revolted.
Keeping the OGs at their very high salaries causing a cap crunch was a choice, one that many or even most fans supported. From a marketing perspective, it was likely the right choice anyway.
There was a price to be paid for that choice, and we're paying it now. I don't really mind, watching the next iteration of underdogs overachieving is going to be fun, it'll just take a few years until that happens. Until then, we will still have the occasional game of Steph magic, which isn't a bad way to spend fall and winter evenings.
I supported the choice. After that '22 championship, they couldn't dismantle the team. Steph was at the top of his game. Draymond could still impact winning. Klay was still rebounding from injury and was expected to improve. Wiggins looked like a legit #2 in the playoffs and was dynamite on both ends. Poole looked like he could be the bridge to the next generation of championship Warriors. The front office and ownership would have deserved all of the grief fans would have given them for breaking that up.
But as you say, thing have not gone well since. Klay never recaptured his past form, though he was thirsty to prove that he could and burned a lot of minutes and shots showing the opposite. Dray was... volatile and unreliable. Wiggins regressed and mostly returned to Minnesota form, except that with the Wolves, he somehow scored 20 ppg. Poole got punched in the face, became uncoachable, and turned into a sloppy, selfish mess -- and not necessarily in that order. JK and Moody have not progressed as much as we all hoped, largely because they have not gotten consistent playing time to iron out the wrinkles.
I like watching the Curry magic and seeing the young guys emerge. I just wish we could get more of both.
Last night watching the Wolves size and athleticism shut down Joker and the Nuggets, the Knicks toughness and how unbelievable Brunson has become, the Pacers potential, and that is just 4 teams, shows how much trouble the Warriors are in competing going forward.
On top of that there are a bunch of teams with so many great draft options and cap space to get even better.
The Warriors could quite easily end up being 11 or 12 in the West next year unless some legendary wizardry by the front office happens. Can they make JK and TJD both grow 2 or 3 inches?
Podz and Moody greatly improve their quickness? Make Steph, Klay and Draymond 5 years younger?
Make Wiggins into a fierce competitor?
Yea I know this kind of out there but they have an almost impossible trade,draft and salary cap situation and a lot of teams with more to offer for any real player additions.
It will be fascinating to watch how they deal with this last chance situation and what their roster ends up being next year.
I think this is fair, but hardly unexpected. It's hard/impossible to stay competitive forever.
You're right in that we're not in the first or second tier of teams anymore, with the roster as currently constructed (unless Kuminga or Moody makes some highly unlikely leap).
Such is life ... plenty of things to root for other than a championship, though. I'm OK with us starting to transition to the post-Steph years, even if he'll be here (but not a lead guy on a championship-level team anymore).
We're at the tail end of the Warriors dynasty. And sports dynasties don't end well. So unless the Warriors do something drastic to change their roster, they're going to be a mediocre team in the West once again.
if there are more than two 30+ year olds on the starting line up, its going to be another very long and frustrating season, not to talk about the fact that our tallest guy is only 6'9".
It does seem like we're ready for a roster makeover -- and like the powers that be might not be inclined to do that yet. Hope I'm wrong about that last, but if they want to make a serious run, it looks like it's going to take more firepower than just running it back.
I think it was mentioned here about "ticket sales" vs winning and the fact that as a business "ticket sales" is more important. But, if they run it back with the core (or some other oldies combination) and the team sucks, it is definitely going to have an impact on the revenue. At least, thats the way I see it as a fan.
I predict Minnesota over Nuggets in this series, or at least the first two games. I don't mean to brag, but this is not my first time being this accurate. I have an almost *flawless* hindsight-prediction record. I also view the Clippers as folding to the Mavericks. I may be the all-time leader in retroactive foresight. Ask me virtually ANYTHING about team or player outcomes, and I will successfully predict it. Just give me a little while.
Dropping from #1 to #2 in the 2020 draft and ending up with Wiseman instead of Ant is the most pre-2014-Warriors thing ever. It’s like the basketball gods got confused on lottery night and thought it was 1999.
The Antman now is not the rookie Antman who was talented but erratic and inconsistent. He had some real stinkers. How much patience would Kerr have had with him on a team that still had championship aspirations then? In Minnesota, he got to start about 50 or so games his rookie year and develop on what was one of the worst teams in the league. He would have been stuck behind Steph and Klay in the rotation here, and maybe even Poole, the way it is with Kerr. Would he have developed in the same way at the Dubs? Would he have even started? I guess we'll never know!
Wiseman is better than Ant. Flat out better. He just has a longer onboarding schedule, but check back here in 2042 and we'll see who had a better career. In fact, Wiseman is so much better that --- oh who the hell am I kidding. What a steep dropoff. This is Hasheem Thabeet territory, picked second after Blake Griffin.
I really don't know if they would have taken Edwards over Wiseman tbh, Lacob was out there on draft night calling Wiseman a once-in-a-decade kind of guy
Yeah, that’s true. It was, and still is, so annoying because there were literally better center prospects than Wiseman (by draft-day consensus, no hindsight) in each of the next three drafts.
He didn't say they wouldn't take him, he just said that Edwards wasn't working hard enough.
That said, I think that was probably part of why they said they had Wiseman #1 on their board. But like if the Wolves took Wiseman, would the Warriors have traded down or taken LaMelo/Edwards? That I think we don't have much insight on.
Ant apparently kind of half-assed it in his workouts. Ant himself has admitted to it, and has thanked Kerr for lighting a fire by alerting him about it.
IIRC, Kerr told Edwards about his lack of effort during workouts and how he'd never get to the next level unless he took conditioning and skill-improvement to the next level.
Hard to know how much to believe what these guys say publicly. I interpreted that as the Ws hoping that the Wolves would bite on JW, leaving the Warriors with Edwards. I didn't think LaMelo was a real consideration. His shot was unreliable, and his father is reliably a drama queen. Who needs the headache?
Of course things would have been different had the Ws had the top pick. But barring that, I kind of wish they had fallen further or been able to trade down. Then they could have grabbed Haliburton (whom they liked) without reaching for him.
I never read too much into what teams say about the players they drafted after the draft or FA.
Nobody ever says "You know, we really wanted to draft [other guy], and we were soooooo pissed he got drafted before our pick came up, so we went with this guy here. He's fine, but we're a bit disappointed."
I also don't like reading too much into what teams say before the draft (or FA), because they're all posturing. MDJ was out there saying JP was going to be a Warrior for a long time hours before he traded the guy, probably because he thought it would help in negotiations to keep protections on the pick they were sending out. Maybe they wanted to seem really interested in Wiseman to convince Minny to take Wiseman... or to convince some team to trade up for Wiseman... or maybe they just really love the guy. We'll never know.
> Nobody ever says "You know, we really wanted to draft [other guy], and we were soooooo pissed he got drafted before our pick came up, so we went with this guy here. He's fine, but we're a bit disappointed."
There's a large gap between this and what Lacob said though. He said multiple times that Wiseman was #1 on their board and acknowledged it was an open secret, and that he was the best center prospect in a decade possibly excluding Embiid. We might never know 100% about anything that happens in the NBA but I think this one was as telegraphed as it will ever get in terms of what they were thinking, I can't think of anything that came out before or after the draft that pointed in a different direction. Whereas in the 2021 draft I think there were a few pieces of evidence that came out that the Warriors wanted Giddey.
I have not forgotten! In fact, just the other night I was feeling jealous of all the fans of teams still active in these playoffs, so I watched the mini movie of those Finals on youtube. My favorite of the four titles, no doubt. But what if we could have that title AND Anthony Edwards? :)
Wolves have got to be one the last few teams in the NBA with a traditional starting lineup, right? I mean outside of KAT bombing 3s and playing like a guard the rest of their starting 5 feels like a throwback to the 90s/early 2000s NBA
''Kept their starters together'' works with me, and, when we were competitive, we also had a good mix of hungry/experienced vets -with whom you may built backup chemistry quickly- and, young uns coming up....
This is what happens when you don't develop your support players. There is a very good chance that the Twolves sweep them if they stay healthy. Denver has no bench to back up the starters.
Nugget GM Calvin Booth at the start of the season:
> "Some of these teams were trying to get Bruce, trying to make it worth it; it’s like, just be careful what you wish for. Peyton’s bigger. He’s longer. He’s more athletic. He guards better. He passes better. He doesn’t have the experience, and he’s not as good offensively yet, but we need defense more than we need offense on our team."
I like Watson, but I find the hubris funny given that it is very reminiscent of the Warrior hubris.
Knicks - Pacers was a super fun game. Two totally different styles, and with fascinating dynamic players on both teams. How can you not love guys like Donte and Hart, despite being on the Knicks? And the Pacers are out of their minds with ball movement, player movement, spinning and whirling. If their defense was just a little better they would be truly deadly. Just a fun, fun couple of hours of NBA entertainment.
But Wolves - Nuggets … ouch. Murray is totally off/injured, and their bench is nonexistent. Injuries and lack of depth have hollowed out this team. Bummer, I was hoping they would be more competitive but Minnie just ate their lunch, and every other meal in their kitchen.
It'll be interesting if Indy can wear down the Knicks' starters over the course of the series with their fast pace and Thibs' history of getting 45+ minutes out of his key guys
Media egos gave us HARDLY AND WESTBROKE MVPS, so, no surprise JOKER got MVP as consolation for imminently-to-be-swept-out...
Thunder rout the Mavs 117-95 and go up 1-0 in the series.
Thunder and Mavs seem to be evenly matched.
Well, not anymore.
"How Lebron was in the locker room after losing to the Nuggets in the playoffs" by RDCworld1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah4T-x00V5M
No one gets it. Jamal threw the towel not out of frustration, but in wise desperation, to stop the fight before Drago could finish off Creed.
This might be Gobert's first real DPOY IMO
He's always been a top tier interior presence but I think this might be the first year of him being much more than just a ooga booga big man blocking shots. It also helps his supporting cast is making his job much easier too
Good point. That's how I always thought of him too. According to the ESPN article, he was stellar at switching as well:
"Gobert's dominance extended beyond the paint. He thrived in switch situations, allowing the fewest points per direct isolations among players to defend at least 175 isolation possessions, according to Second Spectrum tracking. He also excelled as a pick-and-roll defender, allowing the third-fewest points per direct pick among screener defenders to defend at least 1,000 on-ball picks."
We are light years away from being a contender in West
Only chance = make a big swing hoping it is a homerun
Little changes = play in team or first round team
The superstar that will next take the Warriors to the WC Finals is likely doing basic drills in a middle school gym as of today, maybe high school if we're lucky.
The last chance to stay in near-term relevance via a re-load was blowing up the team for picks and young talent after the '22 ship, but imagine the grief the FO and ownership would gotten for doing that. They would have been blamed for blowing the unique chance at a fifth ring and definite dynasty status. Fans would have revolted.
Keeping the OGs at their very high salaries causing a cap crunch was a choice, one that many or even most fans supported. From a marketing perspective, it was likely the right choice anyway.
There was a price to be paid for that choice, and we're paying it now. I don't really mind, watching the next iteration of underdogs overachieving is going to be fun, it'll just take a few years until that happens. Until then, we will still have the occasional game of Steph magic, which isn't a bad way to spend fall and winter evenings.
I supported the choice. After that '22 championship, they couldn't dismantle the team. Steph was at the top of his game. Draymond could still impact winning. Klay was still rebounding from injury and was expected to improve. Wiggins looked like a legit #2 in the playoffs and was dynamite on both ends. Poole looked like he could be the bridge to the next generation of championship Warriors. The front office and ownership would have deserved all of the grief fans would have given them for breaking that up.
But as you say, thing have not gone well since. Klay never recaptured his past form, though he was thirsty to prove that he could and burned a lot of minutes and shots showing the opposite. Dray was... volatile and unreliable. Wiggins regressed and mostly returned to Minnesota form, except that with the Wolves, he somehow scored 20 ppg. Poole got punched in the face, became uncoachable, and turned into a sloppy, selfish mess -- and not necessarily in that order. JK and Moody have not progressed as much as we all hoped, largely because they have not gotten consistent playing time to iron out the wrinkles.
I like watching the Curry magic and seeing the young guys emerge. I just wish we could get more of both.
> The superstar that will next take the Warriors to the WC Finals is likely doing basic drills in a middle school gym as of today, maybe high school
Which high school gym are JK, Podz, Moody, TJD, and Gui working out in? 😊
> The last chance to stay in near-term relevance via a re-load was blowing up the team for picks and young talent after the '22 ship
After that 'ship, we had:
1. 3x HOFers still all under 35 years old with something left (who also made up 3/5 of the best starting unit in the league the following year)
2. 2x 27 year old high level starters (that made up the rest of the best starting unit in the league the following year)
3. 1x ascendent 22 year old combo guard
4. 3x recent high level level lottery picks on rookie deals.
I really don't see the logic in your suggested method of retaining near-term relevance.
> After that 'ship, we had
high-value trade assets coveted by up-and-coming teams with young talent trying to add the final veteran piece for their own title run
A championship level team
Last night watching the Wolves size and athleticism shut down Joker and the Nuggets, the Knicks toughness and how unbelievable Brunson has become, the Pacers potential, and that is just 4 teams, shows how much trouble the Warriors are in competing going forward.
On top of that there are a bunch of teams with so many great draft options and cap space to get even better.
The Warriors could quite easily end up being 11 or 12 in the West next year unless some legendary wizardry by the front office happens. Can they make JK and TJD both grow 2 or 3 inches?
Podz and Moody greatly improve their quickness? Make Steph, Klay and Draymond 5 years younger?
Make Wiggins into a fierce competitor?
Yea I know this kind of out there but they have an almost impossible trade,draft and salary cap situation and a lot of teams with more to offer for any real player additions.
It will be fascinating to watch how they deal with this last chance situation and what their roster ends up being next year.
I think this is fair, but hardly unexpected. It's hard/impossible to stay competitive forever.
You're right in that we're not in the first or second tier of teams anymore, with the roster as currently constructed (unless Kuminga or Moody makes some highly unlikely leap).
Such is life ... plenty of things to root for other than a championship, though. I'm OK with us starting to transition to the post-Steph years, even if he'll be here (but not a lead guy on a championship-level team anymore).
We're at the tail end of the Warriors dynasty. And sports dynasties don't end well. So unless the Warriors do something drastic to change their roster, they're going to be a mediocre team in the West once again.
if there are more than two 30+ year olds on the starting line up, its going to be another very long and frustrating season, not to talk about the fact that our tallest guy is only 6'9".
Giannis and Jokic both turn 30 next season…
It does seem like we're ready for a roster makeover -- and like the powers that be might not be inclined to do that yet. Hope I'm wrong about that last, but if they want to make a serious run, it looks like it's going to take more firepower than just running it back.
I think it was mentioned here about "ticket sales" vs winning and the fact that as a business "ticket sales" is more important. But, if they run it back with the core (or some other oldies combination) and the team sucks, it is definitely going to have an impact on the revenue. At least, thats the way I see it as a fan.
I predict Minnesota over Nuggets in this series, or at least the first two games. I don't mean to brag, but this is not my first time being this accurate. I have an almost *flawless* hindsight-prediction record. I also view the Clippers as folding to the Mavericks. I may be the all-time leader in retroactive foresight. Ask me virtually ANYTHING about team or player outcomes, and I will successfully predict it. Just give me a little while.
I predict Minn will win the first 2 games against Denver. I'm so confident I will even bet money on this.
You didn't specify which year, so I'll take that bet for the 2023 playoffs ;)
Dropping from #1 to #2 in the 2020 draft and ending up with Wiseman instead of Ant is the most pre-2014-Warriors thing ever. It’s like the basketball gods got confused on lottery night and thought it was 1999.
The Antman now is not the rookie Antman who was talented but erratic and inconsistent. He had some real stinkers. How much patience would Kerr have had with him on a team that still had championship aspirations then? In Minnesota, he got to start about 50 or so games his rookie year and develop on what was one of the worst teams in the league. He would have been stuck behind Steph and Klay in the rotation here, and maybe even Poole, the way it is with Kerr. Would he have developed in the same way at the Dubs? Would he have even started? I guess we'll never know!
Wiseman is better than Ant. Flat out better. He just has a longer onboarding schedule, but check back here in 2042 and we'll see who had a better career. In fact, Wiseman is so much better that --- oh who the hell am I kidding. What a steep dropoff. This is Hasheem Thabeet territory, picked second after Blake Griffin.
I really don't know if they would have taken Edwards over Wiseman tbh, Lacob was out there on draft night calling Wiseman a once-in-a-decade kind of guy
Yeah, that’s true. It was, and still is, so annoying because there were literally better center prospects than Wiseman (by draft-day consensus, no hindsight) in each of the next three drafts.
Also kerr apparently stated they would not have taken antman - read that somewhere - maybe he told ant at the Olympics last year
He didn't say they wouldn't take him, he just said that Edwards wasn't working hard enough.
That said, I think that was probably part of why they said they had Wiseman #1 on their board. But like if the Wolves took Wiseman, would the Warriors have traded down or taken LaMelo/Edwards? That I think we don't have much insight on.
Lol, and Wiseman worked harder? Where? How? Guy didn’t even play in college.
Ant apparently kind of half-assed it in his workouts. Ant himself has admitted to it, and has thanked Kerr for lighting a fire by alerting him about it.
IIRC, Kerr told Edwards about his lack of effort during workouts and how he'd never get to the next level unless he took conditioning and skill-improvement to the next level.
Hard to know how much to believe what these guys say publicly. I interpreted that as the Ws hoping that the Wolves would bite on JW, leaving the Warriors with Edwards. I didn't think LaMelo was a real consideration. His shot was unreliable, and his father is reliably a drama queen. Who needs the headache?
Of course things would have been different had the Ws had the top pick. But barring that, I kind of wish they had fallen further or been able to trade down. Then they could have grabbed Haliburton (whom they liked) without reaching for him.
I never read too much into what teams say about the players they drafted after the draft or FA.
Nobody ever says "You know, we really wanted to draft [other guy], and we were soooooo pissed he got drafted before our pick came up, so we went with this guy here. He's fine, but we're a bit disappointed."
I also don't like reading too much into what teams say before the draft (or FA), because they're all posturing. MDJ was out there saying JP was going to be a Warrior for a long time hours before he traded the guy, probably because he thought it would help in negotiations to keep protections on the pick they were sending out. Maybe they wanted to seem really interested in Wiseman to convince Minny to take Wiseman... or to convince some team to trade up for Wiseman... or maybe they just really love the guy. We'll never know.
> Nobody ever says "You know, we really wanted to draft [other guy], and we were soooooo pissed he got drafted before our pick came up, so we went with this guy here. He's fine, but we're a bit disappointed."
There's a large gap between this and what Lacob said though. He said multiple times that Wiseman was #1 on their board and acknowledged it was an open secret, and that he was the best center prospect in a decade possibly excluding Embiid. We might never know 100% about anything that happens in the NBA but I think this one was as telegraphed as it will ever get in terms of what they were thinking, I can't think of anything that came out before or after the draft that pointed in a different direction. Whereas in the 2021 draft I think there were a few pieces of evidence that came out that the Warriors wanted Giddey.
All this could be true. Or not.
I have not forgotten! In fact, just the other night I was feeling jealous of all the fans of teams still active in these playoffs, so I watched the mini movie of those Finals on youtube. My favorite of the four titles, no doubt. But what if we could have that title AND Anthony Edwards? :)
True but not because of that draft...
Wolves have got to be one the last few teams in the NBA with a traditional starting lineup, right? I mean outside of KAT bombing 3s and playing like a guard the rest of their starting 5 feels like a throwback to the 90s/early 2000s NBA
They are the platonic ideal of the modern NBA...
Savvy vet PG? Check
Superstar SG? Check
3&Captial-D SF? Check
++ 3pt shooting PF? Check
Elite rim protector C? Check
You're also right, in that they also have a nice little Twin Towers PF/C combo that would work in the old NBA too.
Great comment....
all stars serving street food after being eliminated.
https://web.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=783517090403486&set=pcb.783518420403353
All except Klay. He's just wandering around.
Made me look. That all looks like AI.
Funny to me that a defending champion kept their five starters together but went young on their bench after watching what happened with the Warriors.
''Kept their starters together'' works with me, and, when we were competitive, we also had a good mix of hungry/experienced vets -with whom you may built backup chemistry quickly- and, young uns coming up....
This is what happens when you don't develop your support players. There is a very good chance that the Twolves sweep them if they stay healthy. Denver has no bench to back up the starters.
Nugget GM Calvin Booth at the start of the season:
> "Some of these teams were trying to get Bruce, trying to make it worth it; it’s like, just be careful what you wish for. Peyton’s bigger. He’s longer. He’s more athletic. He guards better. He passes better. He doesn’t have the experience, and he’s not as good offensively yet, but we need defense more than we need offense on our team."
I like Watson, but I find the hubris funny given that it is very reminiscent of the Warrior hubris.
Warrior hubris led to 6 finals trips and 4 rings. Somehow I think the Nuggets aren't going to be repeating that.
i think he means the hubris shown over last two years
You'd think the comment at the start of the chain saying exactly that would have been a dead giveaway of the meaning.
You give a bit too much credit to the rest of us, my friend
Knicks - Pacers was a super fun game. Two totally different styles, and with fascinating dynamic players on both teams. How can you not love guys like Donte and Hart, despite being on the Knicks? And the Pacers are out of their minds with ball movement, player movement, spinning and whirling. If their defense was just a little better they would be truly deadly. Just a fun, fun couple of hours of NBA entertainment.
But Wolves - Nuggets … ouch. Murray is totally off/injured, and their bench is nonexistent. Injuries and lack of depth have hollowed out this team. Bummer, I was hoping they would be more competitive but Minnie just ate their lunch, and every other meal in their kitchen.
It'll be interesting if Indy can wear down the Knicks' starters over the course of the series with their fast pace and Thibs' history of getting 45+ minutes out of his key guys
Indy ball-movement reminded me of.....DUBS BALL....methinks they are a year or two away from truly 'Ship-competing....
Also…Bravo Chuck. Bravo.
https://youtube.com/shorts/b-AqT9L3WMw?si=tWCGx0V1bk1tYab7
Just decided I’d hop on over here and see what was happening, what did I miss?
Wait….oh they did?….those Wolves? Like the Minnesota team? The professional basketball one? On the defending champs?
…Oh my. Well then… I think we’re truly living in bizarre times