b) We spent the last week driving the Alaska Highway through British Columbia, Yukon and now into the 49th state.
Really long drive, but very much an exciting adventure and filled with incredible scenery and wildlife that’s very much undisturbed by modern standards. We’re now going to to spend the next three weeks exploring Alaska.
I’m trying to catch up on the articles and comments. I really enjoyed EA and Perks and am kinda lost on the draft stuff, so will trust the collective wisdom, even though I was high on Post.
I just finished watching Federer, The Last 12 Days. Wow, what an emotional send off to one of the greats. A great player. I was struck by the love that is shared within this family, his wife and kids. It was mentioned in the documentary that an athlete of this calibre experiences two deaths in their lifetime. If you like tennis and sports, in general, this is a great watch. You will get to see Roger and Rafa cry publicly and unabashedly. Lets hope Klay gets to see this.
Per ESPN: The Oilers are the third team to tie the Final after falling behind 3-0 in the series, and the first since the Detroit Red Wings in 1945. The Oilers have the chance Monday night in Sunrise, Florida, to join the 1942 Toronto Maple Leafs as the only NHL teams to come all the way back from that deficit to hoist the Stanley Cup.
Interesting you said that instead of saying "The Panthers were up 3-2 and lost Game 6." I guess each fan (as well as non-zero probability) remembers. :-)
OKC made a great deal getting Caruso.,great defender, good passer and shot 41% from 3.
I am concerned about a lot of teams getting better like they just did.
Most teams just have a much easier path to improvement than the dubs.
I guess it is fair to say that this is the most important off season they have had in terms of needing to make deals. What a tough job Dunleavy has. Wow.
On a second note, a lot of people are sleeping on Memphis. If things go right they could easily be a top 4 in the west and one that was not a factor last year. Kind of like pouring salt on the Warriors wounds. Another hurdle.
While I am on the "Let's not overpay Klay" train I would LOVE to have him back on a team friendly deal. Yes he is no longer a 2nd option on a contending team and he needs to accept a new role but he's still one of the best PROVEN shooters in the league. People are calling him washed and while his attitude wasn't ideal last year plus he wasn't the same on defense he was and is still a legitimate threat from the perimeter. FFS he still damn near shot 39% from deep on 9 attempts in a down year. We still need floor spacers on this team to keep this offense humming. We have the greatest shooter to ever do it but outside of Steph we have no other proven threats. Someone said Andrew is a good shooter but not a threat from out there and while that doesn't really make sense I can't stop thinking about it. I'd send the house at Steph and Klay even if it means leaving Wiggins for a WIDE OPEN 3.
With that being said I still hope we let Moses start and hopefully Klay can fully settle into the bench role at this point in his career.
Seems like he will be pressing in this coming season too to prove all the naysayers wrong. I do get the sense that the Warriors want to remain in their comfort zone, sticking with this core and making some peripheral changes like starting TJD, perhaps playing Wiggs off the bench with The Podz leading the charge. Without Paul, the bench becomes our weak link. Hard to replace a playmaker of his stature. This is the area that is most concerning.
Starters: Steph, Klay, Moses(if Wiggs is gone or moved to the bench), Dray, TJD.
Bench: Podz, SG to be named, traded for, draft, or FA, Wiggs, Kuminga, Looney or player to be acquired. Seems reasonable to me.
So, if the Dubs sign Klay to a contract he thinks is beneath him (fewer years than Dray, less money than Dray), we think he'll just settle into that, just accept that? Maybe. I think its also possible he presses even more. It won't be a contract year but it could (probably will) still be a matter of being too proud and thinking you got treated poorly.
Klay is testing free agency so he'll have a good idea what he can get elsewhere. Whatever deal he takes, it will not be beneath him, it will be the deal he chose.
Attila, you are 100% logical and right on that point. But people do not always behave 100% logical and right or FEEL in alignment with what is 100% logical and right. Just because the market says he is not worth a 3-year $75mill deal doesn't mean he's going to accept it. What he can get is probably too much to walk away from. But just 'cause he signs a less lucrative deal doesn't mean he truly accepts that is fair.
So, I hope your read of what will happen is what happens. I'm just saying, there's some basis for wondering if it will be as you say. I'd love it to go as you suggest.
Yes, I hear that. If Klay takes the deal and then sulks, I imagine he’s going to hear about it from Steph and Draymond and probably will have another chat about realigning his expectations with Coach Kerr. He’s a grown man and should be expected to act like one.
1)I think what we've learned the last 2 years is Steph is not going to talk to any of the other 2 big three. He will occasionally give a big speech (and glance at the young players), but that's about it. So, don't expect any help focusing Klay or reigning in Klay from Steph.
2)I think what we've learned from Dray is he is good at barking (exhibit A: KD; exhibit B: JP), but for many players that barking just alienates them further. So, don't expect any help focusing Klay or reigning in Klay from Dray.
3)As for chatting Klay into professionalism--Klay is pretty upset about the season as it is, and Coach Kerr had a chat with him during the season. If he's still steaming about "disrespect" at a $48mill/2 year offer, to me it seems risky to expect to rely on Klay to be professional about his declining performance and not make waves.
In the past, when the Dubs have brought in malcontents, those players were clearly in the second-tier on the team, knew it, and were thankful for the opportunity. I am not optimistic that Klay will accept that and be thankful. He's acting out about disrespect, when what he should be doing is kicking HIMSELF for turning down two years at $24mill a year.
I found Klay's emotional turmoil this year to be very honest, human, and relatable. All in all, I thought he stepped back with more grace than many others would have. But yes, a lot of dramatic emotions were perhaps not optimal for GSW winning.
Hard to imagine how difficult it was for him to step back and accept he is not what he once was. Tough for anybody in any job but for a super competitive athlete with a big ego had to be almost unbearable.
Free agency is an opportunity for Klay to take a deep breath and think about who he is as a player now and what he wants to do with the rest of his career. Whether he stays here or moves on, he can be happy if he comes to terms with what he can still contribute, which is plenty. Whether he'll do that of course only time will tell.
Why are we even talking about what the Warriors should offer to Klay? Let's just wait what others offer and then make our offer?
Addition through substraction!
Curry is 37 and while he can still play on all star level it will get scarcer. So delusion about championship should end and retool plan must be on its way imho.
Curry +/- is also declining so he can't be the main cog to win it all if we have those aspirations . So either we start from the scratch ( young ones) or we trade everything but the core for that 1 player we(FO) think can prevail the scale. Is that player available?
This is why some of the pundits have argued that getting a player who can create his own offense next to Steph is essential. Klay is not that guy if we entertain this narrative. An all around talent that can shoot, pass, rebound, and defend. Not an easy find, but doable, I think. Just not sure the Warriors are going to go in that direction. Kerr too comfy with the status quo.
I think that now is the time (after the last Finals game) that teams can start to negotiate with free agents who were on their roster at the end of the season.
My understanding is the rules say that after June 30 teams can begin negotiating with all other free agents. Signing of free agents can begin after JUly 6.
Obviously there is probably a bit of converstation that would/could not be officially stated as "negotiations" .
While all this quiet under the table talk is going on ...there are a lot of people who will try to read the public comments (and tea leaves and whsipers) and then speculate on what may or may not actually happen.
IMO this also includes media types and so-called insiders who may get paid for publicizing what they have heard and what they may make of all that.
So .... the rumors are out there and many people have an interest in taliking about possible offers.
Curry's making an insane amount of money (worth it, of course, but still tons cap-wise) for the next two years. Unless he goes too (which would be a huge shame), in my opinion we owe it to one of the best players of all time to do whatever he wants, definitely for the next 2 years. I still think we're not done playing great basketball, and all of our contracts will be gone or expiring in 2+ yrs, so we can completely retool then.
I don't think a team waits for their assets to be on expiring contracts to retool. They will be worth less than what they are now, and if they are in that aging bracket, it's buyer be beware. From my pov, this is the worst possible narrative to wait for. Of course, there must be the right opportunity to execute any trades, etc. That is the due diligence aspect of MDJ's job. Smart people have a feel about when to sell, change, or liquidate their assets.
> Why are we even talking about what the Warriors should offer to Klay?
Because this is a Warriors discussion forum.
> Let's just wait what others offer and then make our offer
Pretty sure that’s exactly what the Warriors are doing. As with all things the Warriors do, “we” don’t have any say in the matter. But it’s still fun to talk about.
Steph is 36 (and 99 days) btw. The inevitable downslope of his career is sad enough — no need to accelerate it! 😔
But that means he'll be closer to 37 by the time the season starts, which means he'll be 38 when next season ends, and we all know 38 is basically 40 and older than lebron!
Soon after the Cavaliers' season ended, it was reported that Darius Garland, through his representation at Klutch Sports, could request a trade if the Cavs sign Donovan Mitchell to an extension. Sources say Garland's preference would be to move to a team in the Eastern Conference that can "maximize his on-court opportunities."
Eastern teams listed as potentially having interest in Garland: Orlando Magic, Brooklyn Nets, Washington Wizards, Toronto Raptors
If the request expands to teams outside the Eastern Conference, destinations would include: San Antonio Spurs, Minnesota Timberwolves, Utah Jazz, New Orleans Pelicans
The problem comes in whether the Cavs will be able to get a package they see fit for Garland, as they will want a star-level package for who they view as a star-level player. Cleveland also reportedly has no intention of trading Garland unless he forces his way out.
Garland is going into year 2 of a $197 million (roughly) 5 year contract. Is he worth it? I kinda doubt it but what do I know. Might be hard to unload.
Or … he could be. You gotta look for market inefficiencies when you’re capped out, and sometimes the “could never be fully healthy” bin is a good place to find them. Think Celtics-era Bill Walton, or Bogut, or Livingston, or Otto Porter Jr. Or heck, Steph on 4/$40M extension.
The Great Celebrini would need to okay anything first, of course.
He gave literal examples of the Warriors acquiring guys with questionable health (and could’ve included re-acquiring GP2 from Portland). Seems to be at least part of Lacob’s MO.
GP2 would be an example of acquiring an unhealthy player and look at how that worked out for us. Porter was reportedly fully healthy when the Warriors signed him. Having a history of injuries is different than being injured at the time of signing. But I think Lacob has learned his lesson, but who knows?
GP2 has special abilities and there was the 2022 ring they won with him. I love him as a player but I wouldn't want him because he can't stay healthy. 2 years of not playing is a whole different thing with Ball. I say stay away from him.
Was GP2 unhealthy when we first got him? I recall him being a journeyman who never showed quite enough to make it in the league until his '21-'22 championship season with us. Then he got injured and since we got him back he has been hurt much of the time.
Not that dangerous if we’re giving up very little for him, which I think is the assumption of most people who are mildly interested in Ball.
I’m of the mind that Wiggs on his current contract is close to neutral value, and that it might be a mild net positive just to unload him (and his inconsistent effort) and allow Kuminga and Moody to really spread their wings in his minutes.
If you see Wiggs as basically fungible, the question becomes what distressed asset we might get in return for him. Ball (who’s apparently sprinting and dunking and looking good in workout vids) and 36 y.o. Brook Lopez are two pretty interesting ideas, imo.
Wiggs for a legit productive tall guy in his prime like Jarrett Allen would be nicer, but may also be a total pipe dream.
There's also the question of how much we're willing to risk. We got Livingston on a 3-year deal for about $5.5M/yr. We got OPJ on a vet min. We did not trade for either one, so we did not give up talent to get them. Bogut of course was a different story, a controversial trade that paid off. I would take a flier on Ball but not at the cost of Wiggins. Vet min, sure.
Wiggins is on a pretty reasonable contract. If the Dubs get off of CP3's non-guaranteed deal and either bring Klay back for something in the ballpark we've discussed here (approx $20M-ish, give or take a few mill), or Klay walks, they don't need to get off of Wiggs' deal. In that case, if they trade him, it would be to bring in other talent.
Yeah, I want to look for a Wiggins upgrade or adjacent but dumping him for nothing is a big mistake. Even if he’s a non factor offensively he’s still easily our best wing defender and we need at least one or two of those guys if we want any hope of succeeding in the playoffs
Okay. But all those good things are from back when he was good. He turns 37 next season and is getting close to washed. Points and rebounds way down, much less great defender than he used to be, etc.
Klay, CP3, and Iguodala all used to be awesome, too.
Edit: though the short contract and salary dump part of it is sort of appealing. And Wiggs is kinda just what the Bucks need. And Brook is a Bay Area dude.
Edit: and huge.
Maybe I’m warming up to it, if Celebrini checks out BroLo and likes what he sees…? 😊
oof. I'd rather bet on Wiggs getting back to 80% of what he was than Lopez being effective at age 37. And, if it's just the salary dump, I think that's underselling Wiggs. If he has two good months, then there will be interest.
If you think Wiggins is a salary dump candidate (not sure that I do), Brook is only signed through next year, and might be the best we can get without attaching picks.
“During one game, after Curry crossed up Kirkland for a step-back 3-pointer that rimmed out, Curry got the ball back off a pass and then made the game-winning 3 on his next attempt. He reflexively celebrated with his iconic “night night” gesture. A clip of the moment, shot by Brogan and posted to her Instagram, went viral.”
"Houston has identified floor spacing and shooting as an area of need this offseason privately and publicly and have an interest in veteran sharpshooter Malik Beasley, league sources said. Beasley, who is also attracting early interest from Orlando and Golden State, spent the past season in Milwaukee, starting 77 games and shooting 41.3 percent from 3-point distance." -via New York Times / May 21, 2024 [article is paywalled]
Keith Smith just said on NBA front Office Show that Jake Fisher is reporting Orlando saying they are not interested in a long term deal for Klay Thompson. Only a 1 year deal around 20.
Just read somewhere that Klay (Don't know if it was him or through a proxy) said "It's not about the money, it's about respect" So X10 on the get over yourself.
A good rule of thumb for media for each leak is to ask “who benefits?” But in this case, I don’t know how it could possibly benefit ORL to leak this, and there’s no other source that Fisher should be using.
Didn't he already decline 24m... we'd probably have to meet him somewhere in the middle. Probably around 20-22m. I'd be ecstatic if he ends up having a change of heart and taking a major pay cut though
We don't have to do nothing (if we stands for Warriors FO)!
Klay doesn't move the needle so let's try to improve through inner development. But if we are living on past history why not!
I'm ok with everything the FO does. I'm expecting years of bottom dwellers unless Kuminga and Moody and Podz develop into something much bigger.
Like I said I personally would suggest trading all the future HOF-ers except Curry for the sake of speedier recovery but I understand if we endure the status quo.
He declined 24 for 2 years prior to this past season. A lot of people would argue his performance should diminish the value of that offer, especially if we’re giving him 3.
Sometimes you bet on yourself and lose. If he's got no leverage, for any who want him to stay, why not offer him $12-$15 mill? The Dubs could really use the extra money to attract the players they need to truly contend. Paraphrasing what Eric said a thread or two ago, every dollar Klay gets is a dollar less that can be spent on a free agent.
Phoenix Suns center Drew Eubanks is declining his $2.6M player option and entering free agency, sources tell ESPN. After signing a one-plus-one deal with Suns, Eubanks averaged 5.1 points and 4.3 rebounds in 75 games.
-------------------
*big body alert*
Wouldn't mind him on a minimum just for some extra center depth even if we end up keeping Kevon.
I haven't followed his game so can't comment on him, but I don't think it will be hard for the Warriors to find another big either in the draft, FA, or trade. Not expensive to do.
I hope you're right. I don't think we'll get much from this year's draft but maybe in free agency. We don't need a new JaMychal Green but a new JaVale or even a new Bjelica would be helpful.
I guess maybe he is fighting for his time in the NBA, and doesn’t like the outlook on his role in PHX. Go land somewhere of his choosing and it’ll prob work out better.
The Golden State Warriors have a two-year contract offer on the table for Klay Thompson ahead of his upcoming free agency, according to ESPN's Tim MacMahon.
During a Thursday appearance on The Hoop Collective, MacMahon revealed that "we've heard it's a two-year offer" (30:25 mark). He added that the duration of the deal could mean more to Thompson than the price, explaining that "it's as much about years as dollars in some of these cases."
Maybe... but Warriors tax situation will be better in the future, so probably better to have a lower number now, which could free up more $$ for a TPMLE or NTPMLE signing... and/or even get under the cap for a year and get line of sight to get out of repeater penalty (though the repeater penalty really isn't that punitive if they're only $5 over the cap...)
Why would it be better in the future? Just curious.
To me, this is the best year for absorbing some extra salary, as long as you stay below the tax line.
In 2024-2025, because CP3 is leaving, and Klay is going from $43 mil to either ~$15-20 mil (av. value) or $0, we potentially have some wiggle room. And that's before whatever happens with Loon or GP2.
In 2025-2026, Steph is on a big contract AND any extensions for Moody and Kuminga kick in.
In 2026-2027, Steph will be on a smaller contract, but it ain't going to be that much smaller, I bet. And Kuminga/Moody will be in the second year of their new deals.
1. If they can get Klay at a reducing salary contract that gets them under the tax line without compromising MLE money, that's absolutely the best outcome for the Warriors... but I don't think that's feasible.
2. The cap goes up a projected $17M in 25/26 to $188M and $19M the following year to $207M. In 25/26, Looney and GP2 will be full off the books. The Warriors will have $120M committed to 5 players, not including Klay, JK, and Moody. You're probably not staying under the cap next year, but it should be easy enough to stay under the 1st apron (e.g. $20M for Klay, $12M for Moody, $28M for JK leaves you at $180M for 8 players with $16M left to spend and stay under the first apron).
I think all your future numbers for JK, Moody are optimistic. I also think that Steph will want a respectable number (my guess is in the $35-$40 mil a year range, barring a sharp falloff in performance), and there's no way in Hell the Dubs will say no to it.
I tend to think $40M for a 38 year old Steph Curry is probably well above market value. I suppose he could have LeBron's longevity, but I've always been of the opinion that LeBron... uhhh... supplements his training regimen in ways that Steph does not.
As for JK/MM, I'm expecting JK to get a 4 year ~$125M contract, and MM to get a 3 year $45Mish contract. Herb Jones got a 3 year $40M contract last offseason, and he had a way stronger NBA resume.
If I understand correctly, you need 2 straight years of not paying taxes to get out the repeater escalation. They may need to start that now because re-signing the young players is going to make it impossible to get out of the repeater.
I'm pretty sure it's 3/4 years paying tax to be considered a repeater, so just need 2/4 years to get out of it. And if you're only $5M over the tax line, the repeater tax really isn't all that punitive... The penalty is only dollar-for-dollar. I don't think a $5M penalty is going to bother Lacob all that much... this is the guy who paid $25M in tax to sign Boogie Cousins to a $5M contract... I'm convinced that it's getting under the aprons that's far more important, so MDJ can improve the roster with MLE, draft, trades.
yeah, that's why I put 'as long as you stay below the tax line' in as a qualifier. I think 2025-2026 is the year we may have difficulty staying below the tax line.
Yeah the only reason to do that would be psychologically (so Klay can say "see, the Warriors tried to give me as much as possible next season"). I think Klay is going to be a Warrior next year, but I'm less confident than in the past (I was pretty sure Dray and Iguodala were going to re-sign).
I bet it's all part of the negotiation. My guess: the Warriors have started with 2 years at a # slightly higher than they really want and want to negotiate down to a lower 2024 # on a 3 year deal. 3 years and $60M gets it done?
And, frankly, if we're talking about # of years on the deal, they're really not that far apart... it's just a matter of time to get it done. The tax threshold in 26/27 is projected to be at $207M, Klay at $22M in 26/27 puts the Warriors at $87M for Klay, Dray, Wiggins, Podz, and TJD. Need to figure out what numbers make sense for Steph, JK, and Moody, but have $120M to work with to fill out the roster before getting to the cap...
And in 3 years, I doubt Steph commands even $40M, and will probably look for a discount to make the team more competitive. I'll point out that the old story of Steph asking if he can take a discount to help the team was rejected by Bob in part because it wouldn't help the team sign anybody if he did take the discount, and not just because Steph deserved every penny, and was done in a pre-apron era when there were extra no FA/draft penalties for going way over the cap. We're in a new era in more ways than one, and I'm 100% betting on Steph taking a discount to help the team sign more better players.
Makes you wonder what sort of discount Steph would take. If he makes more money in other ways then it could even be defended as a rational business decision. Is there a rule about how little he would have to take? Steph on a vet min? Wow, imagine if he did that and won another ring? I would be OK with that.
Yeah, I'm sure some accountant can look at the post-NBA endorsement earnings of guys like Magic Johnson, Jordan, etc. and put a career earnings value on winning another championship, getting to another finals, etc. It's not gonna be zero... going from 4 championships to 5 puts him in much more rarified air. Would taking a $20M discount for 2 years be worth the increased chance? OTOH, do the dollars even matter to him at this point?
(To steal a phrase) Hello everybody!
Been pretty much completely offline since:
a) My phone died, and
b) We spent the last week driving the Alaska Highway through British Columbia, Yukon and now into the 49th state.
Really long drive, but very much an exciting adventure and filled with incredible scenery and wildlife that’s very much undisturbed by modern standards. We’re now going to to spend the next three weeks exploring Alaska.
I’m trying to catch up on the articles and comments. I really enjoyed EA and Perks and am kinda lost on the draft stuff, so will trust the collective wisdom, even though I was high on Post.
Looking forward to those posts.
I just finished watching Federer, The Last 12 Days. Wow, what an emotional send off to one of the greats. A great player. I was struck by the love that is shared within this family, his wife and kids. It was mentioned in the documentary that an athlete of this calibre experiences two deaths in their lifetime. If you like tennis and sports, in general, this is a great watch. You will get to see Roger and Rafa cry publicly and unabashedly. Lets hope Klay gets to see this.
Florida Panthers have blown a 3-0 lead in the Stanley Cup Finals.
Per ESPN: The Oilers are the third team to tie the Final after falling behind 3-0 in the series, and the first since the Detroit Red Wings in 1945. The Oilers have the chance Monday night in Sunrise, Florida, to join the 1942 Toronto Maple Leafs as the only NHL teams to come all the way back from that deficit to hoist the Stanley Cup.
Link: https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/40405207/oilers-dominate-force-game-7-stanley-cup-final
And Canada hasn't won a cup since '93. 😳😳
Interesting you said that instead of saying "The Panthers were up 3-2 and lost Game 6." I guess each fan (as well as non-zero probability) remembers. :-)
Hey, I do remember that discussion!
I don't know what that means. 😅
OKC made a great deal getting Caruso.,great defender, good passer and shot 41% from 3.
I am concerned about a lot of teams getting better like they just did.
Most teams just have a much easier path to improvement than the dubs.
I guess it is fair to say that this is the most important off season they have had in terms of needing to make deals. What a tough job Dunleavy has. Wow.
On a second note, a lot of people are sleeping on Memphis. If things go right they could easily be a top 4 in the west and one that was not a factor last year. Kind of like pouring salt on the Warriors wounds. Another hurdle.
OT: Edmonton is potentially 1+ period away from coming back from 3-0 to force a game 7.
EPIC.
While I am on the "Let's not overpay Klay" train I would LOVE to have him back on a team friendly deal. Yes he is no longer a 2nd option on a contending team and he needs to accept a new role but he's still one of the best PROVEN shooters in the league. People are calling him washed and while his attitude wasn't ideal last year plus he wasn't the same on defense he was and is still a legitimate threat from the perimeter. FFS he still damn near shot 39% from deep on 9 attempts in a down year. We still need floor spacers on this team to keep this offense humming. We have the greatest shooter to ever do it but outside of Steph we have no other proven threats. Someone said Andrew is a good shooter but not a threat from out there and while that doesn't really make sense I can't stop thinking about it. I'd send the house at Steph and Klay even if it means leaving Wiggins for a WIDE OPEN 3.
With that being said I still hope we let Moses start and hopefully Klay can fully settle into the bench role at this point in his career.
He was pressing too much all season due to contract year/pride/what not. I expect better season from him this year.
Seems like he will be pressing in this coming season too to prove all the naysayers wrong. I do get the sense that the Warriors want to remain in their comfort zone, sticking with this core and making some peripheral changes like starting TJD, perhaps playing Wiggs off the bench with The Podz leading the charge. Without Paul, the bench becomes our weak link. Hard to replace a playmaker of his stature. This is the area that is most concerning.
Starters: Steph, Klay, Moses(if Wiggs is gone or moved to the bench), Dray, TJD.
Bench: Podz, SG to be named, traded for, draft, or FA, Wiggs, Kuminga, Looney or player to be acquired. Seems reasonable to me.
So, if the Dubs sign Klay to a contract he thinks is beneath him (fewer years than Dray, less money than Dray), we think he'll just settle into that, just accept that? Maybe. I think its also possible he presses even more. It won't be a contract year but it could (probably will) still be a matter of being too proud and thinking you got treated poorly.
Klay is testing free agency so he'll have a good idea what he can get elsewhere. Whatever deal he takes, it will not be beneath him, it will be the deal he chose.
Attila, you are 100% logical and right on that point. But people do not always behave 100% logical and right or FEEL in alignment with what is 100% logical and right. Just because the market says he is not worth a 3-year $75mill deal doesn't mean he's going to accept it. What he can get is probably too much to walk away from. But just 'cause he signs a less lucrative deal doesn't mean he truly accepts that is fair.
So, I hope your read of what will happen is what happens. I'm just saying, there's some basis for wondering if it will be as you say. I'd love it to go as you suggest.
Yes, I hear that. If Klay takes the deal and then sulks, I imagine he’s going to hear about it from Steph and Draymond and probably will have another chat about realigning his expectations with Coach Kerr. He’s a grown man and should be expected to act like one.
1)I think what we've learned the last 2 years is Steph is not going to talk to any of the other 2 big three. He will occasionally give a big speech (and glance at the young players), but that's about it. So, don't expect any help focusing Klay or reigning in Klay from Steph.
2)I think what we've learned from Dray is he is good at barking (exhibit A: KD; exhibit B: JP), but for many players that barking just alienates them further. So, don't expect any help focusing Klay or reigning in Klay from Dray.
3)As for chatting Klay into professionalism--Klay is pretty upset about the season as it is, and Coach Kerr had a chat with him during the season. If he's still steaming about "disrespect" at a $48mill/2 year offer, to me it seems risky to expect to rely on Klay to be professional about his declining performance and not make waves.
In the past, when the Dubs have brought in malcontents, those players were clearly in the second-tier on the team, knew it, and were thankful for the opportunity. I am not optimistic that Klay will accept that and be thankful. He's acting out about disrespect, when what he should be doing is kicking HIMSELF for turning down two years at $24mill a year.
I found Klay's emotional turmoil this year to be very honest, human, and relatable. All in all, I thought he stepped back with more grace than many others would have. But yes, a lot of dramatic emotions were perhaps not optimal for GSW winning.
I agree.
Hard to imagine how difficult it was for him to step back and accept he is not what he once was. Tough for anybody in any job but for a super competitive athlete with a big ego had to be almost unbearable.
I agree.
Free agency is an opportunity for Klay to take a deep breath and think about who he is as a player now and what he wants to do with the rest of his career. Whether he stays here or moves on, he can be happy if he comes to terms with what he can still contribute, which is plenty. Whether he'll do that of course only time will tell.
Why are we even talking about what the Warriors should offer to Klay? Let's just wait what others offer and then make our offer?
Addition through substraction!
Curry is 37 and while he can still play on all star level it will get scarcer. So delusion about championship should end and retool plan must be on its way imho.
Curry +/- is also declining so he can't be the main cog to win it all if we have those aspirations . So either we start from the scratch ( young ones) or we trade everything but the core for that 1 player we(FO) think can prevail the scale. Is that player available?
This is why some of the pundits have argued that getting a player who can create his own offense next to Steph is essential. Klay is not that guy if we entertain this narrative. An all around talent that can shoot, pass, rebound, and defend. Not an easy find, but doable, I think. Just not sure the Warriors are going to go in that direction. Kerr too comfy with the status quo.
> An all around talent that can shoot, pass, rebound, and defend. Not an easy find, but doable, I think.
😂
Get ‘er dun, Dunleavy!
I think that now is the time (after the last Finals game) that teams can start to negotiate with free agents who were on their roster at the end of the season.
My understanding is the rules say that after June 30 teams can begin negotiating with all other free agents. Signing of free agents can begin after JUly 6.
Obviously there is probably a bit of converstation that would/could not be officially stated as "negotiations" .
While all this quiet under the table talk is going on ...there are a lot of people who will try to read the public comments (and tea leaves and whsipers) and then speculate on what may or may not actually happen.
IMO this also includes media types and so-called insiders who may get paid for publicizing what they have heard and what they may make of all that.
So .... the rumors are out there and many people have an interest in taliking about possible offers.
Curry's making an insane amount of money (worth it, of course, but still tons cap-wise) for the next two years. Unless he goes too (which would be a huge shame), in my opinion we owe it to one of the best players of all time to do whatever he wants, definitely for the next 2 years. I still think we're not done playing great basketball, and all of our contracts will be gone or expiring in 2+ yrs, so we can completely retool then.
I don't think a team waits for their assets to be on expiring contracts to retool. They will be worth less than what they are now, and if they are in that aging bracket, it's buyer be beware. From my pov, this is the worst possible narrative to wait for. Of course, there must be the right opportunity to execute any trades, etc. That is the due diligence aspect of MDJ's job. Smart people have a feel about when to sell, change, or liquidate their assets.
> Why are we even talking about what the Warriors should offer to Klay?
Because this is a Warriors discussion forum.
> Let's just wait what others offer and then make our offer
Pretty sure that’s exactly what the Warriors are doing. As with all things the Warriors do, “we” don’t have any say in the matter. But it’s still fun to talk about.
Steph is 36 (and 99 days) btw. The inevitable downslope of his career is sad enough — no need to accelerate it! 😔
But that means he'll be closer to 37 by the time the season starts, which means he'll be 38 when next season ends, and we all know 38 is basically 40 and older than lebron!
Steph was born in March. He'll be 36 for almost the entire season. And 37 for the playoffs.
No, Steph is just 36 and 3 months now. He will be 36 until next March and 37 for the playoffs.
He's 36 until he's 37 . . .
Source?
https://downeuclid.com/will-the-cleveland-cavaliers-trade-darius-garland-right-down-euclid-mailbag/
Soon after the Cavaliers' season ended, it was reported that Darius Garland, through his representation at Klutch Sports, could request a trade if the Cavs sign Donovan Mitchell to an extension. Sources say Garland's preference would be to move to a team in the Eastern Conference that can "maximize his on-court opportunities."
Eastern teams listed as potentially having interest in Garland: Orlando Magic, Brooklyn Nets, Washington Wizards, Toronto Raptors
If the request expands to teams outside the Eastern Conference, destinations would include: San Antonio Spurs, Minnesota Timberwolves, Utah Jazz, New Orleans Pelicans
The problem comes in whether the Cavs will be able to get a package they see fit for Garland, as they will want a star-level package for who they view as a star-level player. Cleveland also reportedly has no intention of trading Garland unless he forces his way out.
Were you mentioning this to arouse Warrior interest in making a deal for him?
probably not a fit for us, but an interesting piece of league wide gossip and a potential domino for moves that are more relevant for us
Garland is going into year 2 of a $197 million (roughly) 5 year contract. Is he worth it? I kinda doubt it but what do I know. Might be hard to unload.
Ok, following the Bulls trade I am envisioning a package deal, Wiggins and a pick for Lonzo Ball and Torrey Craig. Please?
What is up with people wanting Lonzo Ball? He hasn't played in two years, and he could never be fully healthy in the NBA again.
Or … he could be. You gotta look for market inefficiencies when you’re capped out, and sometimes the “could never be fully healthy” bin is a good place to find them. Think Celtics-era Bill Walton, or Bogut, or Livingston, or Otto Porter Jr. Or heck, Steph on 4/$40M extension.
The Great Celebrini would need to okay anything first, of course.
A very dangerous way to think for the Warriors. It doesn't seem to jibe with Lacob's M.O.
He gave literal examples of the Warriors acquiring guys with questionable health (and could’ve included re-acquiring GP2 from Portland). Seems to be at least part of Lacob’s MO.
GP2 would be an example of acquiring an unhealthy player and look at how that worked out for us. Porter was reportedly fully healthy when the Warriors signed him. Having a history of injuries is different than being injured at the time of signing. But I think Lacob has learned his lesson, but who knows?
GP2 has special abilities and there was the 2022 ring they won with him. I love him as a player but I wouldn't want him because he can't stay healthy. 2 years of not playing is a whole different thing with Ball. I say stay away from him.
Was GP2 unhealthy when we first got him? I recall him being a journeyman who never showed quite enough to make it in the league until his '21-'22 championship season with us. Then he got injured and since we got him back he has been hurt much of the time.
Not that dangerous if we’re giving up very little for him, which I think is the assumption of most people who are mildly interested in Ball.
I’m of the mind that Wiggs on his current contract is close to neutral value, and that it might be a mild net positive just to unload him (and his inconsistent effort) and allow Kuminga and Moody to really spread their wings in his minutes.
If you see Wiggs as basically fungible, the question becomes what distressed asset we might get in return for him. Ball (who’s apparently sprinting and dunking and looking good in workout vids) and 36 y.o. Brook Lopez are two pretty interesting ideas, imo.
Wiggs for a legit productive tall guy in his prime like Jarrett Allen would be nicer, but may also be a total pipe dream.
There's also the question of how much we're willing to risk. We got Livingston on a 3-year deal for about $5.5M/yr. We got OPJ on a vet min. We did not trade for either one, so we did not give up talent to get them. Bogut of course was a different story, a controversial trade that paid off. I would take a flier on Ball but not at the cost of Wiggins. Vet min, sure.
Request denied. I'd rather have Wiggins.
This
Shaun Livingston missed less time for his leg/knee injury than Lonzo Ball.
Sounds like Lonzo might get a buyout. Won't even need to trade for him.
Bargains are good and needed! I was also searching for a way the Warriors could get off of the Wiggins contract.
Wiggins is on a pretty reasonable contract. If the Dubs get off of CP3's non-guaranteed deal and either bring Klay back for something in the ballpark we've discussed here (approx $20M-ish, give or take a few mill), or Klay walks, they don't need to get off of Wiggs' deal. In that case, if they trade him, it would be to bring in other talent.
Yeah, I want to look for a Wiggins upgrade or adjacent but dumping him for nothing is a big mistake. Even if he’s a non factor offensively he’s still easily our best wing defender and we need at least one or two of those guys if we want any hope of succeeding in the playoffs
The only way I’d take a risk on Lonzo is a vet min deal. It’s a fair question whether he’ll be able to play next season.
Or walk fast.
Wiggs for Brook Lopez?
I’ve thought about that. I wouldn’t mind doing that AND signing Jalen Smith. Really doubling down on stretch bigs.
We should be careful about dumping contracts for 36 year old players though.
Vucevic might be gettable from Bulls. Can’t imagine the price would be that high
No thanks. 36 years old. a perennially atrocious rebounder (Podz grabs more), and declining across the board.
"Podz grabs more" while relevant in this context, is also something one could say about most of the league.
Brandin is one of the weirder rookies I've rooted for
Bingo....
He’s not an atrocious team rebounder. He’s like the opposite of Westbrook. Helps his teammates get boards.
Great drop defender. Stretch 5. Expiring contract. Not sure what he doesn’t accomplish for us (and could make JK and Dray playable together)
Okay. But all those good things are from back when he was good. He turns 37 next season and is getting close to washed. Points and rebounds way down, much less great defender than he used to be, etc.
Klay, CP3, and Iguodala all used to be awesome, too.
Edit: though the short contract and salary dump part of it is sort of appealing. And Wiggs is kinda just what the Bucks need. And Brook is a Bay Area dude.
Edit: and huge.
Maybe I’m warming up to it, if Celebrini checks out BroLo and likes what he sees…? 😊
Boo...u had it right...and I am still hot on Wiggs + his defense....
Yeah I mean this is just a more useful way to dump Wigg’s salary and open up PT for JK and Moody too.
Yeah, that aspect of it appeals for sure. I thought about it more and am sold. 😊
oof. I'd rather bet on Wiggs getting back to 80% of what he was than Lopez being effective at age 37. And, if it's just the salary dump, I think that's underselling Wiggs. If he has two good months, then there will be interest.
fak...u r 2 easy...lol
If you think Wiggins is a salary dump candidate (not sure that I do), Brook is only signed through next year, and might be the best we can get without attaching picks.
Sorry if this has already been posted - but it is a fun one!
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5575595/2024/06/21/steph-curry-pickup-sacramento/?source=user_shared_articleWhat’s it like when Steph Curry shows up at a pickup game? ‘Even the adults were screaming’
Excerpt from piece
“During one game, after Curry crossed up Kirkland for a step-back 3-pointer that rimmed out, Curry got the ball back off a pass and then made the game-winning 3 on his next attempt. He reflexively celebrated with his iconic “night night” gesture. A clip of the moment, shot by Brogan and posted to her Instagram, went viral.”
Yeah, Steph is sure an entitled out-of-touch NBA player, no wonder everyone hates him /s
From the article, the kids talked about how he asked everyone's name, and insisted they play team ball instead of deferring to him.
Kessler available? What’s he worth?
"Houston has identified floor spacing and shooting as an area of need this offseason privately and publicly and have an interest in veteran sharpshooter Malik Beasley, league sources said. Beasley, who is also attracting early interest from Orlando and Golden State, spent the past season in Milwaukee, starting 77 games and shooting 41.3 percent from 3-point distance." -via New York Times / May 21, 2024 [article is paywalled]
https://hoopshype.com/2024/06/21/malik-beasley-not-expected-back-with-bucks-2/
Beasley only really makes sense to me if Klay and/or Moody are gone
Keith Smith just said on NBA front Office Show that Jake Fisher is reporting Orlando saying they are not interested in a long term deal for Klay Thompson. Only a 1 year deal around 20.
https://x.com/nahfr757/status/1804219379053117908
Sounds about right. Other teams are not as silly as they used to be. And Orlando in particular has been pretty savvy lately.
Take your ~2/$35M deal from GS and get over yourself, Klay. We’d love to have you around!
Just read somewhere that Klay (Don't know if it was him or through a proxy) said "It's not about the money, it's about respect" So X10 on the get over yourself.
He was massively overpaid while injured. How about respect the money you got when you didn't play up to snuff.
A good rule of thumb for media for each leak is to ask “who benefits?” But in this case, I don’t know how it could possibly benefit ORL to leak this, and there’s no other source that Fisher should be using.
Nice, removes quite a bit of Klay's leverage on both years and $$$ average.
Klay 3 years/66 million let's get it done
Let's so not
No thanks!
Moody is cheaper and better imho!
I would sign and trade him though.
That’s high - $18-20 M at most per year
well a $20M starting salary + 8% raises would be
$20M
$21.6M
$23.3M
3 years/$65M, so pretty close!
Turn that into $20M finishing salary + 8% raises for a 4 year deal:
4 years for $72M, 24/25 salary: $15.8M.
Release Loon, keep Gui, and you got 10 guys under contract for $155M.
Sign 3 vet min (including Loon), and you're at $161M for 13 guys, and ~$10M below the tax line, almost full NTPMLE.
I mean… prob don’t have to go that high…
Didn't he already decline 24m... we'd probably have to meet him somewhere in the middle. Probably around 20-22m. I'd be ecstatic if he ends up having a change of heart and taking a major pay cut though
We don't have to do nothing (if we stands for Warriors FO)!
Klay doesn't move the needle so let's try to improve through inner development. But if we are living on past history why not!
I'm ok with everything the FO does. I'm expecting years of bottom dwellers unless Kuminga and Moody and Podz develop into something much bigger.
Like I said I personally would suggest trading all the future HOF-ers except Curry for the sake of speedier recovery but I understand if we endure the status quo.
He declined 24 for 2 years prior to this past season. A lot of people would argue his performance should diminish the value of that offer, especially if we’re giving him 3.
I’m one of those people. He was significantly worse this season than last, and next season he’ll be a year older.
Klay bet on himself and lost. (But he’s wealthy beyond anyone’s imagination either way, so no biggie).
I hope this is what the FO is thinking.
The reality is that even if the deal is $17-18mil a year, it's likely to be an overpay, probably even in year 1.
Sometimes you bet on yourself and lose. If he's got no leverage, for any who want him to stay, why not offer him $12-$15 mill? The Dubs could really use the extra money to attract the players they need to truly contend. Paraphrasing what Eric said a thread or two ago, every dollar Klay gets is a dollar less that can be spent on a free agent.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1804232842999705832
Phoenix Suns center Drew Eubanks is declining his $2.6M player option and entering free agency, sources tell ESPN. After signing a one-plus-one deal with Suns, Eubanks averaged 5.1 points and 4.3 rebounds in 75 games.
-------------------
*big body alert*
Wouldn't mind him on a minimum just for some extra center depth even if we end up keeping Kevon.
I haven't followed his game so can't comment on him, but I don't think it will be hard for the Warriors to find another big either in the draft, FA, or trade. Not expensive to do.
I hope you're right. I don't think we'll get much from this year's draft but maybe in free agency. We don't need a new JaMychal Green but a new JaVale or even a new Bjelica would be helpful.
If he's declining a $2.6M PO, he's expecting to get more than vet min, right?
or he probably thinks Phoenix sucks and is now bailing just like Eric Gordon too
I guess maybe he is fighting for his time in the NBA, and doesn’t like the outlook on his role in PHX. Go land somewhere of his choosing and it’ll prob work out better.
((
The Golden State Warriors have a two-year contract offer on the table for Klay Thompson ahead of his upcoming free agency, according to ESPN's Tim MacMahon.
During a Thursday appearance on The Hoop Collective, MacMahon revealed that "we've heard it's a two-year offer" (30:25 mark). He added that the duration of the deal could mean more to Thompson than the price, explaining that "it's as much about years as dollars in some of these cases."
))
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10125554-klay-thompson-rumors-warriors-have-offered-2-year-contract-ahead-of-nba-free-agency
Warriors: How about 2 years, $40 million?
Klay: I want three years.
Warriors: 3 years, $40 million. Done.
Klay: Make it 5 years, $40 million and I'm in. (Who needs an agent when I can do this by myself)
#lightyears
3-year declining contract, maybe? Are those still allowed under the CBA?
Yes, the salary can decline up to 8% each year by the CBA.
Maybe... but Warriors tax situation will be better in the future, so probably better to have a lower number now, which could free up more $$ for a TPMLE or NTPMLE signing... and/or even get under the cap for a year and get line of sight to get out of repeater penalty (though the repeater penalty really isn't that punitive if they're only $5 over the cap...)
Why would it be better in the future? Just curious.
To me, this is the best year for absorbing some extra salary, as long as you stay below the tax line.
In 2024-2025, because CP3 is leaving, and Klay is going from $43 mil to either ~$15-20 mil (av. value) or $0, we potentially have some wiggle room. And that's before whatever happens with Loon or GP2.
In 2025-2026, Steph is on a big contract AND any extensions for Moody and Kuminga kick in.
In 2026-2027, Steph will be on a smaller contract, but it ain't going to be that much smaller, I bet. And Kuminga/Moody will be in the second year of their new deals.
1. If they can get Klay at a reducing salary contract that gets them under the tax line without compromising MLE money, that's absolutely the best outcome for the Warriors... but I don't think that's feasible.
2. The cap goes up a projected $17M in 25/26 to $188M and $19M the following year to $207M. In 25/26, Looney and GP2 will be full off the books. The Warriors will have $120M committed to 5 players, not including Klay, JK, and Moody. You're probably not staying under the cap next year, but it should be easy enough to stay under the 1st apron (e.g. $20M for Klay, $12M for Moody, $28M for JK leaves you at $180M for 8 players with $16M left to spend and stay under the first apron).
3. I think Steph signs a much smaller contract.
I guess we'll see.
I think all your future numbers for JK, Moody are optimistic. I also think that Steph will want a respectable number (my guess is in the $35-$40 mil a year range, barring a sharp falloff in performance), and there's no way in Hell the Dubs will say no to it.
I tend to think $40M for a 38 year old Steph Curry is probably well above market value. I suppose he could have LeBron's longevity, but I've always been of the opinion that LeBron... uhhh... supplements his training regimen in ways that Steph does not.
As for JK/MM, I'm expecting JK to get a 4 year ~$125M contract, and MM to get a 3 year $45Mish contract. Herb Jones got a 3 year $40M contract last offseason, and he had a way stronger NBA resume.
If I understand correctly, you need 2 straight years of not paying taxes to get out the repeater escalation. They may need to start that now because re-signing the young players is going to make it impossible to get out of the repeater.
I'm pretty sure it's 3/4 years paying tax to be considered a repeater, so just need 2/4 years to get out of it. And if you're only $5M over the tax line, the repeater tax really isn't all that punitive... The penalty is only dollar-for-dollar. I don't think a $5M penalty is going to bother Lacob all that much... this is the guy who paid $25M in tax to sign Boogie Cousins to a $5M contract... I'm convinced that it's getting under the aprons that's far more important, so MDJ can improve the roster with MLE, draft, trades.
Reference:
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/what-nba-luxury-tax-explained-penalties-high-spending-teams/p1sspaedfsmsit20rqewn9d7
yeah, that's why I put 'as long as you stay below the tax line' in as a qualifier. I think 2025-2026 is the year we may have difficulty staying below the tax line.
Yeah the only reason to do that would be psychologically (so Klay can say "see, the Warriors tried to give me as much as possible next season"). I think Klay is going to be a Warrior next year, but I'm less confident than in the past (I was pretty sure Dray and Iguodala were going to re-sign).
I bet it's all part of the negotiation. My guess: the Warriors have started with 2 years at a # slightly higher than they really want and want to negotiate down to a lower 2024 # on a 3 year deal. 3 years and $60M gets it done?
And, frankly, if we're talking about # of years on the deal, they're really not that far apart... it's just a matter of time to get it done. The tax threshold in 26/27 is projected to be at $207M, Klay at $22M in 26/27 puts the Warriors at $87M for Klay, Dray, Wiggins, Podz, and TJD. Need to figure out what numbers make sense for Steph, JK, and Moody, but have $120M to work with to fill out the roster before getting to the cap...
And in 3 years, I doubt Steph commands even $40M, and will probably look for a discount to make the team more competitive. I'll point out that the old story of Steph asking if he can take a discount to help the team was rejected by Bob in part because it wouldn't help the team sign anybody if he did take the discount, and not just because Steph deserved every penny, and was done in a pre-apron era when there were extra no FA/draft penalties for going way over the cap. We're in a new era in more ways than one, and I'm 100% betting on Steph taking a discount to help the team sign more better players.
Makes you wonder what sort of discount Steph would take. If he makes more money in other ways then it could even be defended as a rational business decision. Is there a rule about how little he would have to take? Steph on a vet min? Wow, imagine if he did that and won another ring? I would be OK with that.
Yeah, I'm sure some accountant can look at the post-NBA endorsement earnings of guys like Magic Johnson, Jordan, etc. and put a career earnings value on winning another championship, getting to another finals, etc. It's not gonna be zero... going from 4 championships to 5 puts him in much more rarified air. Would taking a $20M discount for 2 years be worth the increased chance? OTOH, do the dollars even matter to him at this point?