Can't wait to hear Dame b*tch and complain again when Portland cannot add title contention talent around him in time. Their roster is weirdly constructed. They're not 1 or even 2 players away IMO even though Scoot will be huge for them in the future.
The Hawks were able to dump Collins, but now they're worse than the literally .500 team from last season, and Dejounte, Okongwu, and even Sadiq Bey are all up for extensions after next season. I wonder if they can find a taker for Capela (not GSW, I would hope)?
I'm dubious. TV angles can deceive, but I distinctly remember one late last season (last Lakers game of the regular season, maybe?) where he was standing next to Rui Hachimura at the FT line and looked a good couple inches shorter than Rui. My guess is JK is somewhere around 6'-6.5" in bare feet, so 6'-8"-ish w/ shoes. But who knows. I will definitely fixate closely on his head height the next time I see him...
"No advantage gained" is not quite right. If he forces a PG to pick him up, that creates a mismatch switch already, even if he backs it out. It's why you'll see Steph dribble directly at a big in transition, in an effort to force that big to "pick him up" and put the defense in a disadvantaged rotation.
I understand that. But when it happened last season, I don't recall any great advantage/reward. Just worried that he was so out of control that he would turn the ball over weaving through multiple defenders.
Yea they were real frenetic. Paul is maybe now the Iggy “get your shit together role”. Do you think he has enough seniority to hold Steph Klay Dray accountable? That could be a good bonus with how proudly sloppy we are….
Honestly, I don't think he would really need to slow down those guys. If he just slows down the bench unit by not shot hunting or home run pass hunting, it's enough.
They won't but if they just went full hockey line style subs with Steph, Klay, Wiggs, Dray, Loon for 29-31 minutes and then CP0, GP2, Moody, Kuminga, TJD for 17-19 minutes every game I think they could win 60 games because that 2nd unit could probably keep things even and the starters would outscore most other team's the rest of the time.
Actually on 2nd thought sometimes they will need to swap GP2 and Klay depending on if the 1st unit needs D or the 2nd needs O ...
Also, Wiggins can play more than 31 minutes most nights
Ok lots of reasons it won't happen, but fun thought experiment.
Mikey Likey. But I don't think there is an avenue to pick up Danillo. But I am down with a second unit of CP3, Klay, ____, Dray, TJD A Watanabe (not likely) would be perfect. Need another shooter in this group. Or a stretch big in place of TJD
But a second unit anchored by Dray and Klay is a great start. And if you get Dray to come off the bench, you never needed CP3 to begin with. So the CP3 trade is a sign that Dray is starting and coming off the bench is not even up for debate.
Unfortunately, if they wanted Gallo, he could have been included in the WAS-GSW trade. I suppose you could argue that he might save money coming on a buyout, but then again, a buyout might not happen. And he might not choose GSW if he's a FA. Same logic across the board for Muscala.
This was the bench mob of last year and most here think it failed miserably. I think it wasn't given enough time to work. And JP was maybe not ideal as a point guard for the line-up.
It could have been very interesting. Each line-up could be competing against the other, young guns vs. the geezers, to see which team had the biggest positive point differential against the other team. That it looked bad at the start should have been expected and called for patience.
Bench mobs feel like an inherently flawed plan from the get go. If you keep all your stars together and rest them all together, well yea the 5 guys replacing them will look pretty bad by comparison. And when you have such foundational pieces to an offense (Steph) or defense (Dray), it's even more baffling to run the same scheme when neither are on the court
You kind of contradict yourself. I basically agree with you about the flaw, but this group just has an interesting makeup that might make it work. Again. won't happen so we'll never know. Just fun summer rambling.
It would allow them to play two completely different styles, which it seems they will need to do. Or maybe Chris Paul can get in the best shape of his life and run, run, run off-ball...
OK, so assuming that there is not a bombshell CP0 trade in the future, and that they will leave the 15th spot open again, we have 11 guys under contract which leaves 3 spots plus 3 2-ways. I'm guessing Lester, Guy + [Edit: Javan Johnson - Thanks Sab] for the 2-ways so not considering them for the 15 man roster.
I think they NEED 1 more distributor both so they can give Steph/CP0 days off on back to backs and to account for injury. Not seeing anyone better than Ty - that they can afford - so I'll assume it's Ty. That leaves two spots.
I know we all want one more back up big. Most want a banger, but I think we need a stretch big/ passer in the Bjelica mold. Saric has been suggested I'm Ok with that. Alternately a Za Za type (Sandro Mamukelashvili was suggested on reddit). Lots of guys I don't recognize at the end of other teams rosters. This is the spot of greatest intrigue to me.
Last spot: holding out hope that OPJ gets waived and we miracle him back that extra o 63 healthy games + playoffs. (that happens and they might think they don't need a back up big as we can do what we did in 21-22 with the lineups, so that would annoy some people). If not, hope they find the next OPJ ...
I think that there are still a lot of younger guys and they will need some leadership so they should bring Iguodala back because he has always been the kind of mentor that --- NOT!
Toronto is running things back with the possibility of re-signing FVV. I think Otto is on a good contract to either fill a backup role or to trade for someone that can
Great observation. It should be clear enough that Jackson-Davis is destined to be both a champion and a hall of famer. How much clearer could the evidence be?
We only have one year of college tape and stats for him so we really can’t tell if he’ll be good. As opposed to the zero meaningful games the Thompson twins played, or almost every other first round teenager picked besides the pros over seas.
I think it's really just market demand. Draymond (and Klay, Collins, and Reid) can ask for whatever he wants, and it just takes one team willing to give it to them to set the market. Is Draymond worth $100M/3 years? You and I may not think so, but if the Kings or Blazers think that signing Draymond Green can push them into "true contender", and they have the cap space to sign him to $100M/3 years, the market has spoken. That's what they're worth.
What's the market value for Looney? Surprisingly low. What's the market value for Naz Reid? A bit higher, but still surprisingly low. John Collins? Low.
How much can they pay Draymond and still have a title window beyond this year? It feels like the second apron is a hard cap and if they pay Dray too much they won’t be able to keep Klay (if he gets in shape and is good.)
I’m guessing $18-20 would be ideal. And anything over $25 is done for
Agree. Tom Brady (not my fave but he certainly maximized his chances to win) understood that his whole career, some other QBs not so much. Yet somehow those excessively paid qb’s were always the ones struggling with teammates and saying the team needed to prioritize winning.
It's not the salaries that kill us, it's the luxury taxes. Created and agreed to by the owners. So, it's actually (as always) the even richer folks screwing us over.
Blame? For pursuing the highest salary possible in their chosen profession? That's just frickin' ridiculous. They are under no obligation and bear no blame for pursuing generational wealth during the 1-20 year careers that any basketball player has in the NBA, which is by far the best opportunity that they will have to ensure financial stability and comfort that may need to last the second, you know, 30+ years of their life post-retirement.
Seems about typical of what we can hope for from a vet min big. I'm not sure he's a good enough defender to justify being also not much of an offensive threat?
Like, if you compare him to Bjelica, Mamu's career numbers are worse in pretty much every category. Nemanja had an outlier down year just before we signed him, yet his numbers in that year are about the same as Mamukelashvili's across the board. Which, you could take that as a sign that we could maybe get more out of him, but he's been on the Bucks and Spurs, neither of which are particularly known for mishandling player development.
Bjeli died on the vine during his time here. He looked like his legs were stuck in quicksand and he lost his 3 point shot. Very spotty play from him, in general. He had some good moments but could not return to form.
I can co-sign most of his comparison of Poole and Paul, but one thing he left out is that Jordan is an ironman who played every game. Chris Paul is decidedly not. I don't mind the Ws making this bet (though I was hoping they'd get back more for Poole if they insisted on trading him), but it is a gamble. Paul is a better player than Poole (certainly a better decision-maker) IF he is available. If he's not, all we did was get off of Poole's contract. Maybe that's enough, but as I said, I was hoping for more.
Poole was also starting PG or 2G when needed, starting at one of those positions half the season to go along with 6th man duties. Paul will be your 6th man, and your starting PG when Curry doesn't start, but he's not your starting 2G when Klay is out. A job Poole did pretty well when the Dubs went 18-2 to start their Chip season.
Yeah I mean it'll probably end up being him. I'd like a guy who can pressure the rim but maybe that player just doesn't really exist for the minimum. You could make the basketball case for Derrick Rose (he's old enough where he'd probably be cool with that role for a minimum), but I don't want to do another year of the Anthony Lamb vibes.
I'd probably watch many fewer Warriors games if both Rose and Lamb are on the team. I love the team and core (including JK and MM at this point for my own sanity), but that'd be a very hard lift to watch outside of games I know neither will play much tbh. The Kings, Thunder and Spurs would all be fun to watch and not force me to feel as gross when doing it (afaik)
One thing I want to see is what Quinones looks like as a PG in summer league. Someone mentioned a tweet about three threads back where an anonymous someone said the Warriors were pretty high on him.
Hopefully, it's not just all gas. He's got a 6'10" wingspan, at 6'5" tall, so the physical template to be a decent defender.
Yeah, he's always been one to really emphasize his pain, and I get all worried that he's seriously injured... but then he just goes right back to playing like nothing happened.
Gary Payton II makes a SOLID first pitch for the Giants!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0CnfNrO8NM
Considering that last season whenever Steph rested the ball just stopped or old episodes of The Huckers played on a loop CP3 could be invaluable.
The old Bill Simmons phrase, "toilet bowl offense" comes to mind.
Can't wait to hear Dame b*tch and complain again when Portland cannot add title contention talent around him in time. Their roster is weirdly constructed. They're not 1 or even 2 players away IMO even though Scoot will be huge for them in the future.
I'm gonna call Dame getting traded to the Rockets for like half their roster, Houston signing Harden and flaming out in the first round.
That is an ugly fate for Oakland's native son
Truly a monkey's paw kind of thing
The Hawks were able to dump Collins, but now they're worse than the literally .500 team from last season, and Dejounte, Okongwu, and even Sadiq Bey are all up for extensions after next season. I wonder if they can find a taker for Capela (not GSW, I would hope)?
Ill take Okongwu off their hands
The Memphis Grizzlies exercised the team’s $1.93 million option on forward Xavier Tillman for the 2023-24 season, team says.
https://twitter.com/mikeascotto/status/1673459828302258176
Geez, talk about a bargain.
Would that we could get our hard-nosed Spartan PF/C for that little.
We got his 1st 3 years for $2.6 mil total, does that count?
KInd of, yeah. :-)
So Kuminga is definitely not 7’2… but could he be 6’9 now? 6’10?
If you can play, you can play... no matter the height...
-Dick, #1
sorry... I was thinking Kuminga.... 6'5" or 6'6" or 6'7" or 6'9' or 6'10" or 7'2"...
I know, I just thought it would be funny in the context of the Grady Dick joke threads
I'm dubious. TV angles can deceive, but I distinctly remember one late last season (last Lakers game of the regular season, maybe?) where he was standing next to Rui Hachimura at the FT line and looked a good couple inches shorter than Rui. My guess is JK is somewhere around 6'-6.5" in bare feet, so 6'-8"-ish w/ shoes. But who knows. I will definitely fixate closely on his head height the next time I see him...
No
I wouldn't be concerned, I'd want to know what he's doing to make that happen and if it would work for someone, ahem, a bit older than 20.
it's not completely unheard of, but it would be pretty unusual
I thought CJ McCollum grew 4 inches before his senior year in college
Paul plays in a very different style from Kerr ball. Whatever happens, I hope it packs a punch Kerr-Paul!
I hope the entire team plays at a slower pace this season, because I did NOT like how super fast the Warriors were playing last season.
What annoyed me the most was Draymond would grab a rebound & race down the court and everyone else would be behind him. No advantage gained.
"No advantage gained" is not quite right. If he forces a PG to pick him up, that creates a mismatch switch already, even if he backs it out. It's why you'll see Steph dribble directly at a big in transition, in an effort to force that big to "pick him up" and put the defense in a disadvantaged rotation.
I understand that. But when it happened last season, I don't recall any great advantage/reward. Just worried that he was so out of control that he would turn the ball over weaving through multiple defenders.
Well… he can get a nice little advantage and then still piss it away with bad decisions…
Yea they were real frenetic. Paul is maybe now the Iggy “get your shit together role”. Do you think he has enough seniority to hold Steph Klay Dray accountable? That could be a good bonus with how proudly sloppy we are….
Honestly, I don't think he would really need to slow down those guys. If he just slows down the bench unit by not shot hunting or home run pass hunting, it's enough.
Mavs: Can we have Ayton?
Suns: No.
https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/14ju9ed/chris_haynes_the_dallas_mavericks_recently_made_a/
Chris Paul's reaction to getting traded to the Warriors: I'm DEFINITELY excited! | NBA Today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi0CLwo0zRM
He's looking slim in the face. Good for him. That's got to be good for his joints, right?
"IT"S A PAAAAAUUUUUL PAAAAAARRRRTYYYY!!!!" - Probably not Klay Thompson.
They won't but if they just went full hockey line style subs with Steph, Klay, Wiggs, Dray, Loon for 29-31 minutes and then CP0, GP2, Moody, Kuminga, TJD for 17-19 minutes every game I think they could win 60 games because that 2nd unit could probably keep things even and the starters would outscore most other team's the rest of the time.
Actually on 2nd thought sometimes they will need to swap GP2 and Klay depending on if the 1st unit needs D or the 2nd needs O ...
Also, Wiggins can play more than 31 minutes most nights
Ok lots of reasons it won't happen, but fun thought experiment.
Sign me up for:
1st 5: Steph-Moody-Wiggs-Kuminga-Loon
2nd 5: CP3-GP2-Klay-Gallinari-Dray
3rd 5: Jerome-Podz-Santos-Saric-TJD
With plenty o' mixing and matching. Get 'er dun, 'leavy!
Mikey Likey. But I don't think there is an avenue to pick up Danillo. But I am down with a second unit of CP3, Klay, ____, Dray, TJD A Watanabe (not likely) would be perfect. Need another shooter in this group. Or a stretch big in place of TJD
But a second unit anchored by Dray and Klay is a great start. And if you get Dray to come off the bench, you never needed CP3 to begin with. So the CP3 trade is a sign that Dray is starting and coming off the bench is not even up for debate.
Seems like Gallo’s body is betraying him at this point
Whu? Did you just promote Moody over Klay and Kuminga over Dray?
Over Kerr's dead body.
If that's what it takes! haha
Unfortunately, if they wanted Gallo, he could have been included in the WAS-GSW trade. I suppose you could argue that he might save money coming on a buyout, but then again, a buyout might not happen. And he might not choose GSW if he's a FA. Same logic across the board for Muscala.
This was the bench mob of last year and most here think it failed miserably. I think it wasn't given enough time to work. And JP was maybe not ideal as a point guard for the line-up.
It could have been very interesting. Each line-up could be competing against the other, young guns vs. the geezers, to see which team had the biggest positive point differential against the other team. That it looked bad at the start should have been expected and called for patience.
No. It wasn't. No CP0 or TJD. GP2 didn't join until later and wasn't really himself. So only 2 of the were the bench mob from last year.
Doesn't matter. They won't do it that way (and probably shouldn't). Just off-season thoughts.
Bench mobs feel like an inherently flawed plan from the get go. If you keep all your stars together and rest them all together, well yea the 5 guys replacing them will look pretty bad by comparison. And when you have such foundational pieces to an offense (Steph) or defense (Dray), it's even more baffling to run the same scheme when neither are on the court
You kind of contradict yourself. I basically agree with you about the flaw, but this group just has an interesting makeup that might make it work. Again. won't happen so we'll never know. Just fun summer rambling.
I kinda like that. Like a change up pitch, and let Paul do what he does best, directing new players as the lead
It would allow them to play two completely different styles, which it seems they will need to do. Or maybe Chris Paul can get in the best shape of his life and run, run, run off-ball...
Yeah and 2 styles will force the other team to adapt to both!
OK, so assuming that there is not a bombshell CP0 trade in the future, and that they will leave the 15th spot open again, we have 11 guys under contract which leaves 3 spots plus 3 2-ways. I'm guessing Lester, Guy + [Edit: Javan Johnson - Thanks Sab] for the 2-ways so not considering them for the 15 man roster.
I think they NEED 1 more distributor both so they can give Steph/CP0 days off on back to backs and to account for injury. Not seeing anyone better than Ty - that they can afford - so I'll assume it's Ty. That leaves two spots.
I know we all want one more back up big. Most want a banger, but I think we need a stretch big/ passer in the Bjelica mold. Saric has been suggested I'm Ok with that. Alternately a Za Za type (Sandro Mamukelashvili was suggested on reddit). Lots of guys I don't recognize at the end of other teams rosters. This is the spot of greatest intrigue to me.
Last spot: holding out hope that OPJ gets waived and we miracle him back that extra o 63 healthy games + playoffs. (that happens and they might think they don't need a back up big as we can do what we did in 21-22 with the lineups, so that would annoy some people). If not, hope they find the next OPJ ...
I think that there are still a lot of younger guys and they will need some leadership so they should bring Iguodala back because he has always been the kind of mentor that --- NOT!
I think OPJ's wife is from TOR. I think they are happy there.
I think you're right, but if Toronto is not happy with OPJ's (lack of) availability and they release him ...
Toronto is running things back with the possibility of re-signing FVV. I think Otto is on a good contract to either fill a backup role or to trade for someone that can
Who will then release him.
That hasn't been confirmed, all that was reported is that he reached an agreement on a one-year deal with the Warriors.
Thanks. Edited.
IIRC, Lester was promised a 2-way, then got it taken away when we gave them to Ty & #40. Javan can absolutely lose the 2-way...
yes, this is right. Weatherspoon and Quinones had the two ways, but non-guaranteed.
When we got to the preseason camp, Ty and Lamb got the two ways, Quinones went to the G-league, and Weatherspoon went to China (Tianjin Pioneers).
That's OK. 2 ways only affect my thesis if they take spots on the 15-man roster
Manu Ginobili went 57th in the 1999 draft. Coincidence? Don’t think so. Simple proof that TJD will blossom into a championship winning all star.
Great observation. It should be clear enough that Jackson-Davis is destined to be both a champion and a hall of famer. How much clearer could the evidence be?
And I only had to go back 24 years to find a 57th pick whose name I recognized!
Pascall didn't quite work out as well... sigh
That would have been nice. That first year was so promising...
We only have one year of college tape and stats for him so we really can’t tell if he’ll be good. As opposed to the zero meaningful games the Thompson twins played, or almost every other first round teenager picked besides the pros over seas.
How does Ainge abuse everyone else in trades and then help the Lakers out with a favorable one?
Collins for Gay and a second? Really?
I feel like I’m missing some news here. This trade is between the Hawks and the Jazz, right? How is this impacting the Lakers?
Nvm, my reading comprehension just took a hit after the work day, I’m with it now.
Danny Ainge is Dan Akroyd at the end of Trading Places, just eating everyone's lunch.
I had this same thought. Too bad Bob/Mike didn't get on his good side; we could've used some of the guys he gave away to LA.
Maybe he's atoning for those years he played for Boston against LA.
I think it's really just market demand. Draymond (and Klay, Collins, and Reid) can ask for whatever he wants, and it just takes one team willing to give it to them to set the market. Is Draymond worth $100M/3 years? You and I may not think so, but if the Kings or Blazers think that signing Draymond Green can push them into "true contender", and they have the cap space to sign him to $100M/3 years, the market has spoken. That's what they're worth.
What's the market value for Looney? Surprisingly low. What's the market value for Naz Reid? A bit higher, but still surprisingly low. John Collins? Low.
How much can they pay Draymond and still have a title window beyond this year? It feels like the second apron is a hard cap and if they pay Dray too much they won’t be able to keep Klay (if he gets in shape and is good.)
I’m guessing $18-20 would be ideal. And anything over $25 is done for
Agree. Tom Brady (not my fave but he certainly maximized his chances to win) understood that his whole career, some other QBs not so much. Yet somehow those excessively paid qb’s were always the ones struggling with teammates and saying the team needed to prioritize winning.
My explanation: sports star salaries are whack. Nothing I can do about that but choose not to watch, and I love watching.
It's not the salaries that kill us, it's the luxury taxes. Created and agreed to by the owners. So, it's actually (as always) the even richer folks screwing us over.
Blame? For pursuing the highest salary possible in their chosen profession? That's just frickin' ridiculous. They are under no obligation and bear no blame for pursuing generational wealth during the 1-20 year careers that any basketball player has in the NBA, which is by far the best opportunity that they will have to ensure financial stability and comfort that may need to last the second, you know, 30+ years of their life post-retirement.
Saw this suggestion as a vet min free agent target over on reddit. Thoughts? (mine are looks like a perfect 14th guy for W's)
Sandro Mamukelashvili
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ah7qTS0NB4
Seems about typical of what we can hope for from a vet min big. I'm not sure he's a good enough defender to justify being also not much of an offensive threat?
Like, if you compare him to Bjelica, Mamu's career numbers are worse in pretty much every category. Nemanja had an outlier down year just before we signed him, yet his numbers in that year are about the same as Mamukelashvili's across the board. Which, you could take that as a sign that we could maybe get more out of him, but he's been on the Bucks and Spurs, neither of which are particularly known for mishandling player development.
So, I guess I'm lukewarm on the idea.
Bjeli died on the vine during his time here. He looked like his legs were stuck in quicksand and he lost his 3 point shot. Very spotty play from him, in general. He had some good moments but could not return to form.
I'd be on board with getting this guy. I think Pop really liked him but with Wemby on board now he might be willing to set him free.
He will take minutes from TDJ's development.
I can co-sign most of his comparison of Poole and Paul, but one thing he left out is that Jordan is an ironman who played every game. Chris Paul is decidedly not. I don't mind the Ws making this bet (though I was hoping they'd get back more for Poole if they insisted on trading him), but it is a gamble. Paul is a better player than Poole (certainly a better decision-maker) IF he is available. If he's not, all we did was get off of Poole's contract. Maybe that's enough, but as I said, I was hoping for more.
Poole was also starting PG or 2G when needed, starting at one of those positions half the season to go along with 6th man duties. Paul will be your 6th man, and your starting PG when Curry doesn't start, but he's not your starting 2G when Klay is out. A job Poole did pretty well when the Dubs went 18-2 to start their Chip season.
GP2 was better than Poole at the starting SG position imo, so it's not a big deal imo.
Poole's absence could certainly be felt if both Curry and CP3 are out though. Warriors need to sign another ballhandler.
we think Ty is enough in that spot? (probably)
Yeah I mean it'll probably end up being him. I'd like a guy who can pressure the rim but maybe that player just doesn't really exist for the minimum. You could make the basketball case for Derrick Rose (he's old enough where he'd probably be cool with that role for a minimum), but I don't want to do another year of the Anthony Lamb vibes.
I'd probably watch many fewer Warriors games if both Rose and Lamb are on the team. I love the team and core (including JK and MM at this point for my own sanity), but that'd be a very hard lift to watch outside of games I know neither will play much tbh. The Kings, Thunder and Spurs would all be fun to watch and not force me to feel as gross when doing it (afaik)
One thing I want to see is what Quinones looks like as a PG in summer league. Someone mentioned a tweet about three threads back where an anonymous someone said the Warriors were pretty high on him.
Hopefully, it's not just all gas. He's got a 6'10" wingspan, at 6'5" tall, so the physical template to be a decent defender.
Anybody who watched him in the G League might reasonably be high on him. He was awesome.
No kidding. Don't want this team to be known for that.
I don't know, he seems super flexible. I'm not a doctor, but I though injuries are more likely the less your body can bend without breaking.
Yeah, he's always been one to really emphasize his pain, and I get all worried that he's seriously injured... but then he just goes right back to playing like nothing happened.
There’s a great moment where Kerr is talking about all those grimaces and says “JP has a flair… for the dramatic.” Now I say that every time.