"I love how everyone acts like Draymond solves all of our problems. If anything, he creates more of them lol" - same person on GSOM that thinks Steph should handle the ball way more instead of Draymond so his fantasy numbers will look better
Sigh. That place (outside of Brady and a couple other thoughtful souls who always get shouted down) has really become a wretched hive of ignorance, petulance, and anhedonia. They’re never gonna win back the massive chunk of their soul they lost when Daniel, Dru, Eric, PMC and co. moved here (and took most of the long-time GSoMers with them) but I do think Brady could really improve the discourse there by just banning the 2-3 haters there who keep repeating the same 2-3 tiresome points endlessly. IIRC, we had one of those here several months back, and I feel like the whole tenor this site got instantly smarter and more fun when Dan/Dru/Eric laid down the Banhammer on him.
It feels like a lot of the worst takes that always stick around over the years come from people who just play fantasy and don't care much about reality.
What was that reporter expect asking Oubre those questions. "Yes I'm going into arguably the most significant FA of my career so let me just answer all of these stupid questions now about my expected role/money and lose all my leverage"
Regarding Oubre's postgame, he did the right thing by shutting down the reporters from asking sensationalistic questions, answers to which would have had no impact in reality.
I am not bashing KD because he can do what he wants but the way he handled free agency talk (will he/won't he) was an unnecessary distraction.
Yesterday's postgame, I don't who it was but what would make a reporter ask a question "will you take less money". SMFH.
So good on Oubre. I got more respect for him today than I did yesterday.
Perhaps yesterday's Bulls/Magic trade gave the front office some clarity. Otto Porter was a key part of a trade that netted Vucevic because of his massive expiring contract. Otto Porter was also coming off the bench this season.
It sounds like if the Warriors pay Oubre and give him a starting spot, he'll stick around. Seems like the most hassle-free way to accomplish that is by moving Wiggins to the bench, no? The downside is that they theoretically kill Wiggins' trade value, but after next season he's an expiring contract, so he could have the same value that a benched Porter did.
Obviously it's a lot of money to bring off the bench, but if the choice is starting Wiggins and losing Oubre or starting Oubre and keeping both, would they really lose Oubre just to keep Wiggins in a starting role to keep his trade value up? Not to mention, is Wiggins' trade value up? Because it seems like the articles were saying the Warriors viewed Oubre and Wiggins as interchangeable but Wiggins was too hard to trade with his contract.
Generally I like Wiggs off the bench more than I like Oubre off the bench, something about how Wiggs seems a bit better getting his own shot. Also on D, Oubre causes some more chaos going for steals, which works OK with Dray backing him up. With the bench mob, I think Wiggs consistency on D is a little more useful. So if Wiggs is happy with 30 minutes as the 6th man, I think it’s a good setup for a championship caliber team. Obviously both guys play when we go small, which will be the end of most games. I always tell my kids, it’s not who starts that says who the coach trusts, it’s who finishes.
Totally agree, I think they've got the lineup backwards right now with Wiggins/Oubre. Just as you said on defense, with Steph and Dray out there you probably want to maximize the chaos. Oubre's on ball defense is a great compliment to Dray's help defense, and part of the benefit of Dray's defense is keeping guys focused with his leadership. On the other hand, Wiggins sometimes seems to play harder when he's out there with a weaker lineup, like he's trying to cover the team's weaknesses.
That swap also works better on offense, I think? Oubre's threes look a lot better when the defense is just letting him have them because they're happy guarding Steph. Wiggins threes often seem to go in when the team needs a jolt, and he can get enough distance for a decent shot off the dribble even when his defender is already guarding him. Plus, we've already seen Oubre pass Wiggins in the motion offense on back cuts and connecting with Dray.
Perhaps there is a downside with "losing" Wiggins, but the coaching staff keeps raving about how coachable he is so I don't know.
Also, to be fair to the front office, if they were planning on benching or trading Wiggins in order to retain Oubre, there's no reason to say that right now.
Could have been worse, they could have asked him where he expects to be playing 4 years from now, who he thinks will be his teammates, and who will be his primary opponents.
What frustrates me most about Wiseman, having nothing to do with what I believe about the scouting department’s appraisal of what he will ultimately become, is that we drafted for need instead of thinking about how we can acquire players that are desirable in the trade market. If we had Lamelo or Haliburton, it would be easy to foresee us being able to trade them to upgrade our wings. Land Beal or Siakum, or some mix of guys like Lavine and Ball.
Bigs being what they are, even if Wiseman was going to pan out, (and there’s still a possibility of that, but I’m going to take the under), there probably wasn’t going to be the kind of clarity after year one that would make them as valuable in the trading market as a promising young guard or wing. But instead of thinking about how to maximize the big three’s prime, they were thinking about how to keep the run going a la the Spurs. I get the allure of that, but now you’re betting on landing a generational talent like Duncan or Kawhi, which is never a bet you want to make.
There is no way anyone could've known Haliburton or Ball would be this good. It was much likely they'd be a Miles Bridges and Lonzo Lite. I can't see ayone trading Beal or Lavine for either of them even now, let alone when they were unproven.
I am not saying Wiseman will be something. I think itt's highly possible he won't. But it was the best choice we had in a draft with no great choices. I don't even think I'd want Edwards instead and Killian Hayes is was farther from being contributing player when he went down.
I could see people unloading the truck for Lamelo now. He projects as a potential franchise guy, a la Morant. There are exceedingly few of those in the league, let alone teenage versions. Haliburton's appeal is less clear, but if I'm Chicago, I would definitely be very interested in a Wiggins/Haliburton package to the point that Lavine and a sweetener like a pick or another player is something I seriously consider.
Regardless, my point isn't that teams could have known that what those guys would become, it's that the team was high on both of those two guys in particular, but chose Wiseman for the theoretical fit with our core and the idea that growing a rookie was a better way to get back to the mountaintop than developing tradable assets. Especially given the expected learning curve for bigs in the NBA, and the rawness that Wiseman had coming in, that's a very very questionable perspective.
I mean, the question was the equivalent of saying "Kelly Oubre, will you, months before you can get a sense of the market and strategize with your agent, put a ceiling on your lifetime earnings right now, FOR THE FANS?" Asking personal contract negotiating questions is different when someone has already taken discounts on their contracts (KD) and has already spent years getting paid the max.
Yea, the FO really handled this well. Shop him just enough to make him wash his hands of the organization, but not enough to swing a deal. I think Lacob’s faith in this front office is going to be tested by their moves since the offseason
Lacob is FO if some of the reporting is to be believed. Who knows how true that is. However Smiley still taking up a slot (and costing probably $10M savings) tells me that Lacob and fam are involved in making FO related decisions.
That's true, but he's not going to blame himself or his kids, he's going to blame the advice he's getting from the paid help. Heretofore, the guy thinks that the organization walks on water, lightyears ahead. That's one of the primary beliefs that looses the strings on his checkbook. If you believe that your FO and coach are going to win if you spend heavily and you're Lacob, you spend. If you lose confidence in your people, that link gets severed and you have a very different feeling about the 100s of millions that are going to payroll. Not to mention the people that talked you in to spending it and having nothing to show for it, because now your billionaire friends are making fun of your getting taken for a ride on the golf course. There's probably nothing that gets a billionaire madder than being laughed at by their peers.
IMO, if there are non-trivial changes in the FO this offseason, look out below.
Man, I don't get all this Wiseman negativity and the dumping on the front office for his being drafted. At the start of the season I penciled in the team for a 35-37 record and they are right on that pace. Wiseman understandably has that deer-in-the-headlights look this year, but one day 2,3,4 years from now has a great chance to be a beast. As far as the FO blowing the draft? Let's actually take a look at the past two drafts. Poole: an excellent surprise pick late in the first. Smailagic: a tremendous unknown picked where few ever excel, being a big, might have the same timeline as JW. Paschall: very good value as mid 2nd rounder. Wiseman: see above. Nico: hella good potential. Justinian Jessup: has the look as maybe the answer to our prayers. I think the front office has done pretty damn well.
Thank you PGBreaker, I agree. [Gets up on soapbox] We have a lot of really knowledgeable people here, and we love our Dubs. But we're kind of spoiled with our success in recent years, and we have big emotional swings, almost like we collectively have some sort of bipolar disorder. We go back and forth between "wow, Wiseman/Oubre/Draymond/Wiggins/the FO/Kerr/whoever is killing it" to "damn, Wiseman/Oubre/Draymond/Wiggins/the FO/Kerr/whoever is killing us" in the course of a few games. Yes, we are fans, derived from "fanatics." But still, a chill pill and a big dose of patience for the rest of this season might be beneficial to our mental health, especially during what we knew from the minute Klay was re-injured would be a transitional season. [Gets down off soapbox]
As others have said, bird in hand vs two in the bushes is crux of the problem. Look at Lakers and Nets. I really hope the MINN and our own pick is traded on off-season to get a win now player.
Who would it be though? The big need is a forward that defends and is a reliable volume scorer. Durant isn't coming back, Leonard is presumably happy in LA, as is Anthony Davis, Giannis just signed a big deal to stay where he is, I doubt that Ingram is available. Aside from all that, the Warriors have cap problems.
I can't see it either and I was a charter member of the "trade down and draft Halliburton or Vassell (currently hitting 41% of his 3s and pulling down 6.5 rebounds/36)" club. Wiseman is playing just about as well as you would expect a high school player playing against the best professional players in the world. He will get better.
Good point. If they allow the coaches to do their jobs properly you can make a case that the FO has found their back court, found shooters, and shored up the wing rotation nicely.
Add a passing big that knows how to alter shots at the rim and rebound and you have a contending roster.
However, if they sabotage the franchise by getting involved in minutes and coaching of the #2 pick then all the rest is for naught.
I remember Slater reporting that the Klay Thompson injury hurt the Warriors pursuit of Marc Gasol.
Maybe I'm just projecting what I would've liked to see, but the offseason plan seems like it was to finally get Klay back and all their max contract guys healthy and playing together, draft Wiseman for the future, but nab Marc Gasol for a win-right-now big.
Yeah, Marc Gasol hasn't looked too hot with the Lakers, but that would've been a solid offseason gameplan at the time, imo.
On another note, maybe I'm just projecting again, but after spending the season talking about wanting to establish a winning culture and getting as high a seed as possible, doesn't it seem like that 1-5 stretch against playoff teams really subdued their season outlook, in terms of their hopes of being a playoff contender? Then of course, compound that with Curry's tailbone injury.
They haven't outright said it to the media, but ever since then feels like they've refocused the season onto developing the young guys for next year, and settle for the play-in game. Obviously, there's the Wiseman bit, but even going straight into giving Poole and especially Mannion a bunch of minutes, and playing them together a bunch, at the expense of minutes for DLee and/or JTA, doesn't seem like what you do when you're trying to win as much as you can.
For players they know what to expect, like DLee, JTA, and Paschall, the plan seems to be to put them on the back burner while they try to get Wiseman, Poole, and Mannion as many minutes as possible.
Agree with you. It raises a lot of questions about what the actual goals are and if the actions being taken will actually lead to achieving those goals.
One thought: aside from Baze all these guys are relatively inexperienced at the NBA level. Age shouldn’t be relevant to developing the roster. All the bench players will progress significantly if they earn more playing time by showing winning habits. Lee progressed a ton last year and is better this year (much like Poole.) JTA shows flashes of excellence that might become habits with more playing time. They are almost as raw as the young guys when it comes to actual NBA experience. They are all young enough to expect significant development over even a max length contract like Smiley’s. Age 20 vs 25 isn’t really relevant.
Hopefully the coaches and players are more aligned in the rotation plan than we as fans are based on what we have been told: this year is about competing, because that clearly hasn’t been the driving lineup force.
Agree with all this BUT with 2-3 years left in the steph/dray/klay window, they should have drafted a "win now" player and not a project with the number 2 pick. I think that lacob just convinced himself wiseman was "generational" and then all logic went out the window.
PMC's comments in his other post about the staff's deliberate tank job has me both confident and concerned at the same time. Just hope the team continues to support it, and continues to support the young bucks' confidence
JW does look like a 4 year project which doesn't really fit the big 3 win now window. Grabbing someone NBA ready in the 2 slot and trading that for a need may have been a better move.
I think you'll get a lot of agreement here. The issue is that it was *not* clear that Haliburton, with his funky shot, or Ball, with his low efficiency, would ever be NBA ready. And no one else has shown to be contributing more than Wiseman enough to move the needle.
My hindsight is exemplary but I'm no scout and have nothing to back up my observation that any of the other top 5 picks look more ready and more valuable to the 4 year championship window. My sense is any of them would contribute more or be more valuable trade bait. System matters. Starting to believe that the 3 game college career not so much hindered development but shrouded a good scouting look.
46 minutes total. But somehow that seems less bad than not scoring a single point in 6 straight games, even if he’s only getting 8 minutes in those game. He’s going up against mostly bench scrubs, and was sold leading up to the draft as an offensive dynamo ... you’d think at some point over six games he might run into a point or two?
Definitely. By the middle of next year, I think he'll have had comparable playing time to Embiid or Cousins or Ayton when they started their 2nd years. It's hard to wait that long, and unrealistic to expect him to be ever be an Embiid or Cousins, but I can hope he'd be an Ayton. Actually, I feel like he's behind Ayton now.
Instead of putting the best pieces for him to compete for Next year championship , we will be Kinder garden. Remenber Next year we Will have another top rookie to develop. And learn. Again
Its ok if we want to rebuild. But we have a prime curry, a top 15 player of ALL TIME.
And we are surrounding Him with puppies.
He deserves much more.
Hope Next year the FO makes the moves and get real bench and veteranes to give curry a fair shot. He deserves IT.
Let’s see how the roster looks next season. This season was effectively lost when Klay went down. Curry when asked has seemed keenly aware of that fact, and — outside of one sideline outburst — quite cheerful, patient, and energized about the season overall.
He’s just a player, tho, not a professional keyboard GM. In your expert opinion, are there specific personnel moves or non-moves this season to date that you wish the team had made? Or is this just another episode of “make us better, Myers!!!”
That’s bull. Curry wants to play 5-7 years more, and wants to be good the entire time. It’s not on the FO that KD walked, Klay’s been hurt for 21/2 years, Dray’s breaking down.
Sorry folks perseverating again, I know I keep putting this same concept out there, but I haven’t quite gotten it out the right way. One hopefully final attempt:
The ownership group of the Warriors are total badasses in many ways. Their approach to getting fans into Chase Center in safety is pro active and will pay dividends for our country if we learn from it for future pandemics. The way they went about building Chase center in the first place, and the commitment they have to excellence is well documented. The way they approach the salary cap and asset management is a blessing to fans of the team. With so many positives in their planning and execution it’s human nature to think it would translate in to on court sports acumen. The reality is that all those successes don’t make them qualified to get overly involved in basketball operations and they fell into the hubris trap that successful people and organizations often do. That success in one area will translate into another.
No matter how many times we see successful people think they can master the “business” of sports performance there will inevitably be a steep and painful learning curve.
If Lacobs and co had stuck to draft asset management they might have been very successful for a very long time. Once they got overly involved in player evaluation, and now coaching decisions, the wheels are destined to come off. The Athletes can carry the performance for a while, but there are even odds that Kerr will start having stress related health issues before the end of next season. And it’s a safe bet that playing with joy will not be back in the near future, even with the return of Klay.
Once (if?) ownership learns that you can’t actually know if a Center will be a generational talent based on their High School/AAU and three preseason college games of film, and actually start paying attention to the development times of the different types of players in relation to the extended primes (and contracts) of the current core, they will eventually learn if they are any good at the roster building job, and maybe even improve at it. Once they realize how badly they screwed their chance of maximizing their hall of fame coach’s talents by refusing to take players that would enhance the system he is most comfortable with, they will have a chance to do better with the next coaching staff. For now they went from bringing in top GM talent like Jerry West to make collaborative decisions with, to bringing in players with no GM experience to make collaborative decisions with. That shift alone should reveal what the rest of Curry’s prime will look like with the Warriors.
It’s not just Wiseman’s learning curve that Warriors fans should be concerned about.
As for Wiseman, Embiid finally seems to be carrying his team the way people have expected for years at age 27 (but they still have yet to make the eastern conference finals) AD couldn’t carry a team that even had a highly respected PG through age 26. We need to respect and judge Wiseman’s progress based on a top center’s developmental timeline, which unfortunately is highly unlikely to lead to added playoff value for a few years at best. Let us just hope that the current coaching staff is allowed to train Wiseman in winning habits at some point.
Problem is, there's no way to have known Haliburton or Ball would be this good. It was more likely they would not. Anyone, even FOs who claim otherwise are crowing about extremely lucky guesses at best.
Really, it was unrealistic to think that last year's draft would add anyone of significant value. That's likely why they weren't able to move their pick for a quality NBA player.
I'm by no means defending the FO. The emergence of three drafted HOFers, one in the 2nd round, is the luckiest star alignment imaginable and for them to think anything else is delusion. But I'm not sure there've been that many other good options since. When you're drafting last and maxed at the cap, pickings are slim and any injury is devastating.
I don't think it's fair to make an assessment on how Wiseman will turn out until a couple years. Whether picking him for this team was the best decision however is a relevant convo.
Given all his struggles, the thing that I hate the most with Wiseman is his attitude. The way he gets a(e?)ffected by his bad play doesn't look like the "I'll get better from this" feeling but the "I'm going to get into my own head".
Try to look at it from a teenager’s perspective. You believe you can be great but you know you currently get owned on a regular basis by backups. The big boss is forcing your three time championship coaching staff to play you heavy minutes in a season that is extremely important to Draymond and Curry who have a certain level of expectation. There is ever increasing friction in an organization once recognized for its joy and it’s all centered around you.
As a teenager you get to really feel the fan interactions on social media and it’s not pleasant out there for anyone, mostly because the owner believes you’re a generational talent and you just need more minutes to rapidly begin playing like one. But you somehow aren’t able to consistently practice and you have to figure out how to get there fast against starters when you’ve been having backups consistently have career nights against you. It’s all so mentally and physically draining and there is no light at the end of this long long season (72>>>3.)
It really looked like coming off the bench in the middle of the first when the starters had already set the defensive tone and starting the second as guaranteed spots; and then having to earn time in the second half made sense. This start every game and get your minutes in concept may lead to stressed Wiseman as likely as it is to lead to rage Wiseman.
Hopefully there is a Vegas summer league and wiseman nico and jessup go. Maybe even Poole if he wants the work. If wiseman puts in the work this summer and trains with some old timers he can make some real progress for next year
It seems more and more likely that Kerr wishes Wiseman was at the end of the bench where he belongs until he earns his minutes but is being forced to start him and play him more. If Kerr (and Myers?) Were also forced to draft him by Lacob, then this feels like Smiley but 10 times worse and more impactful. Depending on what lamelo turns into and what wiseman can become, this (as it looks today) could go down as an epic blunder. That being said, if Wiseman has a 25-15 game later this season, we'll all be talking about how many MVPs he'll get in his career, but it just seems less and less likely the more I watch him
Even if he does have a 25/15 game, it will not necessarily mean an improvement of his overall fit and understanding of the game. This takes years.
I'm not sure taking Wiseman was a blunder. I don't know how Lamelo would've done off the bench with our scrubs. We suffer from a lack of talent. Long term, Lamelo makes sense. Wiseman will at least be a tradeable asset if we don't wait too long.
Smiley is a joke. How many serviceable big guys could've been plugged into his roster spot over the last couple of years?! This is a blind spot for the team.
Of course, technically, you are right. I was thinking more along the lines of Curry's replacement for the future. If Lamelo's rookie year is anything to go by, there is no question of him being valuable to a team
It's a trade off. They can be, but it depends on the quality of the 2nd contract. With Curry, Klay, and KD, you have an unbeatable triumvirate. Retaining Iggy was pure speculation as his overall contribution was questionable related to the money he was making. KD was the key to their success. But as you see, things changed and now they are trying to keep themselves relevant, but failing. Americans love debt. They are raised on it and cherish it to the amazement of most of the world. That honeymoon is over.
Well, I gave engaging in good faith a shot :). Sounds like you came late to the party. The KD Warriors never won as many games as the prior two years. The only reason they didn’t win the year before KD was a combination of injuries to Bogut and Curry (allowing Kerr to do the light years tank job with Ezili and Varejão.) And the league stepping in at LeBron’s behest to suspend Green right before game 6 in an unheard of discipline timeline.
KD certainly added value in his time on GS (at the expense of team depth) but you have no credibility when you make comments like the above one and simply sound like a troll. Please go to GSOM to troll when you feel the need.
Doubt he's willing to accept lower money and a bench role. Considering we got nothing for him, there's a very real possibility he walks in the summer.
Another very real possibility that we miss the playoffs via the play-in game. If we finish 9/10 as looks likely, we need to lose 1 game in 2 which can definitely happen.
The good thing is that we've got a really good young player. The bad news is that it's not the guy we picked at #2 in the draft over likely all-stars in LaMelo (almost certainly) and Haliburton (possibly) and useful 3 and D wings in Vassell and Patrick Williams.
Considering how much money the team will save if he walks, I would say that it is almost guaranteed he's gone. But, Lacob is a bit irrational. We saw that with Iguodala and the enormous contract they gave him at the last moment. That was a blunder that is biting them on the ass now. Their hope lies in the draft but they are a poor drafting team. They have had success in the FA market in the past. All those good support players lining up to sign for low wages. Those days are over.
I can’t believe I’m saying this but: Wiseman will be fine long term unless he gets the yips from too much pressure.
Guards progress at way faster rates this decade.
The sooner ownership realizes how they aren’t helping Wiseman with their “support” the sooner he’ll be free to progress towards his full potential. But he may not actually be a center if Garnett is really a true comp.
Will he help the current core compete for championships? Probably not. But he will very likely be ready to carry the torch when the big 3 are officially over the hill.
He's shown no indication he'll be good enough at guarding perimeter scorers on switches to think he's a perimeter player. Heck, I don't know if he's good enough at that to adopt a switching scheme with him at C, let alone him being played with another big. As for offense, as long as he can't space the floor at a high level (that would be 35-36% from deep on decent volume) or handle the ball, he's not going to be a perimeter player on offense.
Don't care about comps - just looking at his skills as they are.
"he will very likely be ready to carry the torch when the big 3 are officially over the hill." - he's shown very little indication that he'll be a high-level defensive player which is what will dictate how good he is going to be. Let's be real - he's not an offensive unicorn C like Jokic or Towns. He needs to be a defensive stalwart. He's quite the opposite right now. The only things he's good at right now is as a roll-man and play finisher on offense.
What he is now is not the point. We have been through this again and again. We knew when we drafted Wiseman that he was raw, no college, no summer league, no training camp. And he has missed time since. What he is now is a physical specimen with a pretty nice shooting form, raw skill, and willingness to learn. Expecting more this season is moving the goalposts. Next year he'll be b better but still a pup. He was drafted for what he can be in a few years, as Andre says. Then we will know whether drafting him was a good decision. We probably won't know that this year.
Most high-level players show they'll be really good within 2-3 years. The Randles and Giannises of this world are rare.
Regardless, we cannot afford to wait 4-5 years even if Wiseman turns into a monster. Steph would be 37-38 and I'm pretty sure Dray would've retired by then.
Seeing what LaMelo is right now, I'm certain 30 out of 30 franchises choose LaMelo over Wiseman if you asked them today. That already provides a very decent signal as to whether we made the right decision or not. We won't "know" until later, but we can make educated guesses with increasing precision. It's not looking great right now, even if Wiseman pans out (which I don't believe he will) due to how valuable LaMelo augurs to be.
But we DID take Wiseman. Apparently Joe Lacob personally made that decision. Done deal. Coulda shoulda woulda are powerless words, they all died yesterday. What matters is where we go from here. What we can afford depends on what the team's goals are and what other moves the team makes, which we don't know yet. If drafting Wiseman was a bad decision in 2-3 years, we'll have a different discussion and you can say you told us so.
Don’t forget that the Warriors superpower was playing with joy. And LaMelo added that very thing to the Hornets this year. That would amplify the Curry/Klay vibe that’s been missing since Iguodala left and Klay’s been out.
So yes the FO should be held accountable for blowing the timeline and selecting poorly for the team. But Wiseman himself should not be declared a bust for progressing at a normal timeline for a top C.
"I love how everyone acts like Draymond solves all of our problems. If anything, he creates more of them lol" - same person on GSOM that thinks Steph should handle the ball way more instead of Draymond so his fantasy numbers will look better
Sigh. That place (outside of Brady and a couple other thoughtful souls who always get shouted down) has really become a wretched hive of ignorance, petulance, and anhedonia. They’re never gonna win back the massive chunk of their soul they lost when Daniel, Dru, Eric, PMC and co. moved here (and took most of the long-time GSoMers with them) but I do think Brady could really improve the discourse there by just banning the 2-3 haters there who keep repeating the same 2-3 tiresome points endlessly. IIRC, we had one of those here several months back, and I feel like the whole tenor this site got instantly smarter and more fun when Dan/Dru/Eric laid down the Banhammer on him.
Bonus: In addition to hearing your take (with which I agree), I learned a new (to me) word, "anhedonia." Thanks Sleepy!
It feels like a lot of the worst takes that always stick around over the years come from people who just play fantasy and don't care much about reality.
Now I'm not saying Draymond is a saint that can do no wrong but to disregard his importance to this team is laughable
What was that reporter expect asking Oubre those questions. "Yes I'm going into arguably the most significant FA of my career so let me just answer all of these stupid questions now about my expected role/money and lose all my leverage"
lol right? Give the guy a day to come to terms with not having to pack his apartment and move?
Yeah, that was pretty sleazy of Nick
Thanks LGW for the Oubre postgame link.
"Would you be willing to take less money..."
Oubre: "Yeah sure. I'll be garnishing your wages to make up the difference, oh wait, you make what? nvm"
smh smh smh smh smh smh smh smh smh smh smh smh smh smh smh smh smh smh smh
Regarding Oubre's postgame, he did the right thing by shutting down the reporters from asking sensationalistic questions, answers to which would have had no impact in reality.
I am not bashing KD because he can do what he wants but the way he handled free agency talk (will he/won't he) was an unnecessary distraction.
Yesterday's postgame, I don't who it was but what would make a reporter ask a question "will you take less money". SMFH.
So good on Oubre. I got more respect for him today than I did yesterday.
/end of rant/
Perhaps yesterday's Bulls/Magic trade gave the front office some clarity. Otto Porter was a key part of a trade that netted Vucevic because of his massive expiring contract. Otto Porter was also coming off the bench this season.
It sounds like if the Warriors pay Oubre and give him a starting spot, he'll stick around. Seems like the most hassle-free way to accomplish that is by moving Wiggins to the bench, no? The downside is that they theoretically kill Wiggins' trade value, but after next season he's an expiring contract, so he could have the same value that a benched Porter did.
Obviously it's a lot of money to bring off the bench, but if the choice is starting Wiggins and losing Oubre or starting Oubre and keeping both, would they really lose Oubre just to keep Wiggins in a starting role to keep his trade value up? Not to mention, is Wiggins' trade value up? Because it seems like the articles were saying the Warriors viewed Oubre and Wiggins as interchangeable but Wiggins was too hard to trade with his contract.
Generally I like Wiggs off the bench more than I like Oubre off the bench, something about how Wiggs seems a bit better getting his own shot. Also on D, Oubre causes some more chaos going for steals, which works OK with Dray backing him up. With the bench mob, I think Wiggs consistency on D is a little more useful. So if Wiggs is happy with 30 minutes as the 6th man, I think it’s a good setup for a championship caliber team. Obviously both guys play when we go small, which will be the end of most games. I always tell my kids, it’s not who starts that says who the coach trusts, it’s who finishes.
Totally agree, I think they've got the lineup backwards right now with Wiggins/Oubre. Just as you said on defense, with Steph and Dray out there you probably want to maximize the chaos. Oubre's on ball defense is a great compliment to Dray's help defense, and part of the benefit of Dray's defense is keeping guys focused with his leadership. On the other hand, Wiggins sometimes seems to play harder when he's out there with a weaker lineup, like he's trying to cover the team's weaknesses.
That swap also works better on offense, I think? Oubre's threes look a lot better when the defense is just letting him have them because they're happy guarding Steph. Wiggins threes often seem to go in when the team needs a jolt, and he can get enough distance for a decent shot off the dribble even when his defender is already guarding him. Plus, we've already seen Oubre pass Wiggins in the motion offense on back cuts and connecting with Dray.
The counter to this is probably that Wiggins is shooting 39% from three and Oubre is shooting 31%.
Perhaps there is a downside with "losing" Wiggins, but the coaching staff keeps raving about how coachable he is so I don't know.
Also, to be fair to the front office, if they were planning on benching or trading Wiggins in order to retain Oubre, there's no reason to say that right now.
Could have been worse, they could have asked him where he expects to be playing 4 years from now, who he thinks will be his teammates, and who will be his primary opponents.
😃
Also it was wrong for Kerr to talk on 95.7 about KO's expected role next year.
What frustrates me most about Wiseman, having nothing to do with what I believe about the scouting department’s appraisal of what he will ultimately become, is that we drafted for need instead of thinking about how we can acquire players that are desirable in the trade market. If we had Lamelo or Haliburton, it would be easy to foresee us being able to trade them to upgrade our wings. Land Beal or Siakum, or some mix of guys like Lavine and Ball.
Bigs being what they are, even if Wiseman was going to pan out, (and there’s still a possibility of that, but I’m going to take the under), there probably wasn’t going to be the kind of clarity after year one that would make them as valuable in the trading market as a promising young guard or wing. But instead of thinking about how to maximize the big three’s prime, they were thinking about how to keep the run going a la the Spurs. I get the allure of that, but now you’re betting on landing a generational talent like Duncan or Kawhi, which is never a bet you want to make.
There is no way anyone could've known Haliburton or Ball would be this good. It was much likely they'd be a Miles Bridges and Lonzo Lite. I can't see ayone trading Beal or Lavine for either of them even now, let alone when they were unproven.
I am not saying Wiseman will be something. I think itt's highly possible he won't. But it was the best choice we had in a draft with no great choices. I don't even think I'd want Edwards instead and Killian Hayes is was farther from being contributing player when he went down.
I could see people unloading the truck for Lamelo now. He projects as a potential franchise guy, a la Morant. There are exceedingly few of those in the league, let alone teenage versions. Haliburton's appeal is less clear, but if I'm Chicago, I would definitely be very interested in a Wiggins/Haliburton package to the point that Lavine and a sweetener like a pick or another player is something I seriously consider.
Regardless, my point isn't that teams could have known that what those guys would become, it's that the team was high on both of those two guys in particular, but chose Wiseman for the theoretical fit with our core and the idea that growing a rookie was a better way to get back to the mountaintop than developing tradable assets. Especially given the expected learning curve for bigs in the NBA, and the rawness that Wiseman had coming in, that's a very very questionable perspective.
And taking a guard is just is likely to extend your prime. In fact guards and playmakers are what most winning teams are built around.
Man, that post game with Kelly O is rough...
I mean, the question was the equivalent of saying "Kelly Oubre, will you, months before you can get a sense of the market and strategize with your agent, put a ceiling on your lifetime earnings right now, FOR THE FANS?" Asking personal contract negotiating questions is different when someone has already taken discounts on their contracts (KD) and has already spent years getting paid the max.
Yea, the FO really handled this well. Shop him just enough to make him wash his hands of the organization, but not enough to swing a deal. I think Lacob’s faith in this front office is going to be tested by their moves since the offseason
Lacob is FO if some of the reporting is to be believed. Who knows how true that is. However Smiley still taking up a slot (and costing probably $10M savings) tells me that Lacob and fam are involved in making FO related decisions.
That's true, but he's not going to blame himself or his kids, he's going to blame the advice he's getting from the paid help. Heretofore, the guy thinks that the organization walks on water, lightyears ahead. That's one of the primary beliefs that looses the strings on his checkbook. If you believe that your FO and coach are going to win if you spend heavily and you're Lacob, you spend. If you lose confidence in your people, that link gets severed and you have a very different feeling about the 100s of millions that are going to payroll. Not to mention the people that talked you in to spending it and having nothing to show for it, because now your billionaire friends are making fun of your getting taken for a ride on the golf course. There's probably nothing that gets a billionaire madder than being laughed at by their peers.
IMO, if there are non-trivial changes in the FO this offseason, look out below.
Man, I don't get all this Wiseman negativity and the dumping on the front office for his being drafted. At the start of the season I penciled in the team for a 35-37 record and they are right on that pace. Wiseman understandably has that deer-in-the-headlights look this year, but one day 2,3,4 years from now has a great chance to be a beast. As far as the FO blowing the draft? Let's actually take a look at the past two drafts. Poole: an excellent surprise pick late in the first. Smailagic: a tremendous unknown picked where few ever excel, being a big, might have the same timeline as JW. Paschall: very good value as mid 2nd rounder. Wiseman: see above. Nico: hella good potential. Justinian Jessup: has the look as maybe the answer to our prayers. I think the front office has done pretty damn well.
Thank you PGBreaker, I agree. [Gets up on soapbox] We have a lot of really knowledgeable people here, and we love our Dubs. But we're kind of spoiled with our success in recent years, and we have big emotional swings, almost like we collectively have some sort of bipolar disorder. We go back and forth between "wow, Wiseman/Oubre/Draymond/Wiggins/the FO/Kerr/whoever is killing it" to "damn, Wiseman/Oubre/Draymond/Wiggins/the FO/Kerr/whoever is killing us" in the course of a few games. Yes, we are fans, derived from "fanatics." But still, a chill pill and a big dose of patience for the rest of this season might be beneficial to our mental health, especially during what we knew from the minute Klay was re-injured would be a transitional season. [Gets down off soapbox]
As others have said, bird in hand vs two in the bushes is crux of the problem. Look at Lakers and Nets. I really hope the MINN and our own pick is traded on off-season to get a win now player.
Who would it be though? The big need is a forward that defends and is a reliable volume scorer. Durant isn't coming back, Leonard is presumably happy in LA, as is Anthony Davis, Giannis just signed a big deal to stay where he is, I doubt that Ingram is available. Aside from all that, the Warriors have cap problems.
I hear you but at last year's trade deadline, did anybody remotely think that Harden will be playing next to KD and KI
I can't see it either and I was a charter member of the "trade down and draft Halliburton or Vassell (currently hitting 41% of his 3s and pulling down 6.5 rebounds/36)" club. Wiseman is playing just about as well as you would expect a high school player playing against the best professional players in the world. He will get better.
Good point. If they allow the coaches to do their jobs properly you can make a case that the FO has found their back court, found shooters, and shored up the wing rotation nicely.
Add a passing big that knows how to alter shots at the rim and rebound and you have a contending roster.
However, if they sabotage the franchise by getting involved in minutes and coaching of the #2 pick then all the rest is for naught.
I remember Slater reporting that the Klay Thompson injury hurt the Warriors pursuit of Marc Gasol.
Maybe I'm just projecting what I would've liked to see, but the offseason plan seems like it was to finally get Klay back and all their max contract guys healthy and playing together, draft Wiseman for the future, but nab Marc Gasol for a win-right-now big.
Yeah, Marc Gasol hasn't looked too hot with the Lakers, but that would've been a solid offseason gameplan at the time, imo.
On another note, maybe I'm just projecting again, but after spending the season talking about wanting to establish a winning culture and getting as high a seed as possible, doesn't it seem like that 1-5 stretch against playoff teams really subdued their season outlook, in terms of their hopes of being a playoff contender? Then of course, compound that with Curry's tailbone injury.
They haven't outright said it to the media, but ever since then feels like they've refocused the season onto developing the young guys for next year, and settle for the play-in game. Obviously, there's the Wiseman bit, but even going straight into giving Poole and especially Mannion a bunch of minutes, and playing them together a bunch, at the expense of minutes for DLee and/or JTA, doesn't seem like what you do when you're trying to win as much as you can.
For players they know what to expect, like DLee, JTA, and Paschall, the plan seems to be to put them on the back burner while they try to get Wiseman, Poole, and Mannion as many minutes as possible.
Agree with you. It raises a lot of questions about what the actual goals are and if the actions being taken will actually lead to achieving those goals.
One thought: aside from Baze all these guys are relatively inexperienced at the NBA level. Age shouldn’t be relevant to developing the roster. All the bench players will progress significantly if they earn more playing time by showing winning habits. Lee progressed a ton last year and is better this year (much like Poole.) JTA shows flashes of excellence that might become habits with more playing time. They are almost as raw as the young guys when it comes to actual NBA experience. They are all young enough to expect significant development over even a max length contract like Smiley’s. Age 20 vs 25 isn’t really relevant.
Hopefully the coaches and players are more aligned in the rotation plan than we as fans are based on what we have been told: this year is about competing, because that clearly hasn’t been the driving lineup force.
Agree with all this BUT with 2-3 years left in the steph/dray/klay window, they should have drafted a "win now" player and not a project with the number 2 pick. I think that lacob just convinced himself wiseman was "generational" and then all logic went out the window.
PMC's comments in his other post about the staff's deliberate tank job has me both confident and concerned at the same time. Just hope the team continues to support it, and continues to support the young bucks' confidence
JW does look like a 4 year project which doesn't really fit the big 3 win now window. Grabbing someone NBA ready in the 2 slot and trading that for a need may have been a better move.
I think you'll get a lot of agreement here. The issue is that it was *not* clear that Haliburton, with his funky shot, or Ball, with his low efficiency, would ever be NBA ready. And no one else has shown to be contributing more than Wiseman enough to move the needle.
My hindsight is exemplary but I'm no scout and have nothing to back up my observation that any of the other top 5 picks look more ready and more valuable to the 4 year championship window. My sense is any of them would contribute more or be more valuable trade bait. System matters. Starting to believe that the 3 game college career not so much hindered development but shrouded a good scouting look.
OT: Obi Toppin last six games *combined*:
0 points (0-8 fg)
5 rebounds
1 assist
Dude is 23. I say let’s continue to be patient with our 19 year-old, frustrating as he was to watch last night.
If he did all that in 2 minutes, it would be pretty good tho.
Oh wait, except bricking 8 shots in two minutes, that would still be bad.
46 minutes total. But somehow that seems less bad than not scoring a single point in 6 straight games, even if he’s only getting 8 minutes in those game. He’s going up against mostly bench scrubs, and was sold leading up to the draft as an offensive dynamo ... you’d think at some point over six games he might run into a point or two?
Definitely. By the middle of next year, I think he'll have had comparable playing time to Embiid or Cousins or Ayton when they started their 2nd years. It's hard to wait that long, and unrealistic to expect him to be ever be an Embiid or Cousins, but I can hope he'd be an Ayton. Actually, I feel like he's behind Ayton now.
If im curry ill be piss with management.
Instead of putting the best pieces for him to compete for Next year championship , we will be Kinder garden. Remenber Next year we Will have another top rookie to develop. And learn. Again
Its ok if we want to rebuild. But we have a prime curry, a top 15 player of ALL TIME.
And we are surrounding Him with puppies.
He deserves much more.
Hope Next year the FO makes the moves and get real bench and veteranes to give curry a fair shot. He deserves IT.
Let’s see how the roster looks next season. This season was effectively lost when Klay went down. Curry when asked has seemed keenly aware of that fact, and — outside of one sideline outburst — quite cheerful, patient, and energized about the season overall.
He’s just a player, tho, not a professional keyboard GM. In your expert opinion, are there specific personnel moves or non-moves this season to date that you wish the team had made? Or is this just another episode of “make us better, Myers!!!”
That’s bull. Curry wants to play 5-7 years more, and wants to be good the entire time. It’s not on the FO that KD walked, Klay’s been hurt for 21/2 years, Dray’s breaking down.
Sorry folks perseverating again, I know I keep putting this same concept out there, but I haven’t quite gotten it out the right way. One hopefully final attempt:
The ownership group of the Warriors are total badasses in many ways. Their approach to getting fans into Chase Center in safety is pro active and will pay dividends for our country if we learn from it for future pandemics. The way they went about building Chase center in the first place, and the commitment they have to excellence is well documented. The way they approach the salary cap and asset management is a blessing to fans of the team. With so many positives in their planning and execution it’s human nature to think it would translate in to on court sports acumen. The reality is that all those successes don’t make them qualified to get overly involved in basketball operations and they fell into the hubris trap that successful people and organizations often do. That success in one area will translate into another.
No matter how many times we see successful people think they can master the “business” of sports performance there will inevitably be a steep and painful learning curve.
If Lacobs and co had stuck to draft asset management they might have been very successful for a very long time. Once they got overly involved in player evaluation, and now coaching decisions, the wheels are destined to come off. The Athletes can carry the performance for a while, but there are even odds that Kerr will start having stress related health issues before the end of next season. And it’s a safe bet that playing with joy will not be back in the near future, even with the return of Klay.
Once (if?) ownership learns that you can’t actually know if a Center will be a generational talent based on their High School/AAU and three preseason college games of film, and actually start paying attention to the development times of the different types of players in relation to the extended primes (and contracts) of the current core, they will eventually learn if they are any good at the roster building job, and maybe even improve at it. Once they realize how badly they screwed their chance of maximizing their hall of fame coach’s talents by refusing to take players that would enhance the system he is most comfortable with, they will have a chance to do better with the next coaching staff. For now they went from bringing in top GM talent like Jerry West to make collaborative decisions with, to bringing in players with no GM experience to make collaborative decisions with. That shift alone should reveal what the rest of Curry’s prime will look like with the Warriors.
It’s not just Wiseman’s learning curve that Warriors fans should be concerned about.
As for Wiseman, Embiid finally seems to be carrying his team the way people have expected for years at age 27 (but they still have yet to make the eastern conference finals) AD couldn’t carry a team that even had a highly respected PG through age 26. We need to respect and judge Wiseman’s progress based on a top center’s developmental timeline, which unfortunately is highly unlikely to lead to added playoff value for a few years at best. Let us just hope that the current coaching staff is allowed to train Wiseman in winning habits at some point.
Losing Jerry West hurt us a lot. Having his voice in the room was a major strength.
Right??? Coming to a consensus means very different things depending on who is in that room.
Problem is, there's no way to have known Haliburton or Ball would be this good. It was more likely they would not. Anyone, even FOs who claim otherwise are crowing about extremely lucky guesses at best.
Really, it was unrealistic to think that last year's draft would add anyone of significant value. That's likely why they weren't able to move their pick for a quality NBA player.
I'm by no means defending the FO. The emergence of three drafted HOFers, one in the 2nd round, is the luckiest star alignment imaginable and for them to think anything else is delusion. But I'm not sure there've been that many other good options since. When you're drafting last and maxed at the cap, pickings are slim and any injury is devastating.
The amount of salary not playing last night was staggering.
I don't think it's fair to make an assessment on how Wiseman will turn out until a couple years. Whether picking him for this team was the best decision however is a relevant convo.
Given all his struggles, the thing that I hate the most with Wiseman is his attitude. The way he gets a(e?)ffected by his bad play doesn't look like the "I'll get better from this" feeling but the "I'm going to get into my own head".
Try to look at it from a teenager’s perspective. You believe you can be great but you know you currently get owned on a regular basis by backups. The big boss is forcing your three time championship coaching staff to play you heavy minutes in a season that is extremely important to Draymond and Curry who have a certain level of expectation. There is ever increasing friction in an organization once recognized for its joy and it’s all centered around you.
As a teenager you get to really feel the fan interactions on social media and it’s not pleasant out there for anyone, mostly because the owner believes you’re a generational talent and you just need more minutes to rapidly begin playing like one. But you somehow aren’t able to consistently practice and you have to figure out how to get there fast against starters when you’ve been having backups consistently have career nights against you. It’s all so mentally and physically draining and there is no light at the end of this long long season (72>>>3.)
Who is equal to that task at 19?
Who's equal to that task at 30 or 40? A lot of us armchair analysts wouldn't have the mental fortitude to endure that type of spotlight.
My hope is we get to see rage Wiseman again for a couple of games, hopefully we'll have a break through in 10 games or so.
Hopefully he can channel his best self!
It really looked like coming off the bench in the middle of the first when the starters had already set the defensive tone and starting the second as guaranteed spots; and then having to earn time in the second half made sense. This start every game and get your minutes in concept may lead to stressed Wiseman as likely as it is to lead to rage Wiseman.
That's my take, too.
Hopefully there is a Vegas summer league and wiseman nico and jessup go. Maybe even Poole if he wants the work. If wiseman puts in the work this summer and trains with some old timers he can make some real progress for next year
It seems more and more likely that Kerr wishes Wiseman was at the end of the bench where he belongs until he earns his minutes but is being forced to start him and play him more. If Kerr (and Myers?) Were also forced to draft him by Lacob, then this feels like Smiley but 10 times worse and more impactful. Depending on what lamelo turns into and what wiseman can become, this (as it looks today) could go down as an epic blunder. That being said, if Wiseman has a 25-15 game later this season, we'll all be talking about how many MVPs he'll get in his career, but it just seems less and less likely the more I watch him
Wiseman is the classic example of why you dont draft to fit position nor why you draft size for the sake of size
Even if he does have a 25/15 game, it will not necessarily mean an improvement of his overall fit and understanding of the game. This takes years.
I'm not sure taking Wiseman was a blunder. I don't know how Lamelo would've done off the bench with our scrubs. We suffer from a lack of talent. Long term, Lamelo makes sense. Wiseman will at least be a tradeable asset if we don't wait too long.
Smiley is a joke. How many serviceable big guys could've been plugged into his roster spot over the last couple of years?! This is a blind spot for the team.
You can't say long term lamelo makes sense since we don't know how either player will turn out long term
Of course, technically, you are right. I was thinking more along the lines of Curry's replacement for the future. If Lamelo's rookie year is anything to go by, there is no question of him being valuable to a team
Long term: franchises built on star second contract playmakers and guards appear to be the most successful.
It's a trade off. They can be, but it depends on the quality of the 2nd contract. With Curry, Klay, and KD, you have an unbeatable triumvirate. Retaining Iggy was pure speculation as his overall contribution was questionable related to the money he was making. KD was the key to their success. But as you see, things changed and now they are trying to keep themselves relevant, but failing. Americans love debt. They are raised on it and cherish it to the amazement of most of the world. That honeymoon is over.
Well, I gave engaging in good faith a shot :). Sounds like you came late to the party. The KD Warriors never won as many games as the prior two years. The only reason they didn’t win the year before KD was a combination of injuries to Bogut and Curry (allowing Kerr to do the light years tank job with Ezili and Varejão.) And the league stepping in at LeBron’s behest to suspend Green right before game 6 in an unheard of discipline timeline.
KD certainly added value in his time on GS (at the expense of team depth) but you have no credibility when you make comments like the above one and simply sound like a troll. Please go to GSOM to troll when you feel the need.
Anyone heard Oubre's post-game comments? Pretty rough.
Doubt he's willing to accept lower money and a bench role. Considering we got nothing for him, there's a very real possibility he walks in the summer.
Another very real possibility that we miss the playoffs via the play-in game. If we finish 9/10 as looks likely, we need to lose 1 game in 2 which can definitely happen.
The good thing is that we've got a really good young player. The bad news is that it's not the guy we picked at #2 in the draft over likely all-stars in LaMelo (almost certainly) and Haliburton (possibly) and useful 3 and D wings in Vassell and Patrick Williams.
What he said isn't great, but can you really blame him?
Absolutely not. I don't blame Oubre (or Wiseman). I blame our FO.
Considering how much money the team will save if he walks, I would say that it is almost guaranteed he's gone. But, Lacob is a bit irrational. We saw that with Iguodala and the enormous contract they gave him at the last moment. That was a blunder that is biting them on the ass now. Their hope lies in the draft but they are a poor drafting team. They have had success in the FA market in the past. All those good support players lining up to sign for low wages. Those days are over.
How is the Iguodala contract “biting them on the ass,” again?
he gone
I can’t believe I’m saying this but: Wiseman will be fine long term unless he gets the yips from too much pressure.
Guards progress at way faster rates this decade.
The sooner ownership realizes how they aren’t helping Wiseman with their “support” the sooner he’ll be free to progress towards his full potential. But he may not actually be a center if Garnett is really a true comp.
Will he help the current core compete for championships? Probably not. But he will very likely be ready to carry the torch when the big 3 are officially over the hill.
He's shown no indication he'll be good enough at guarding perimeter scorers on switches to think he's a perimeter player. Heck, I don't know if he's good enough at that to adopt a switching scheme with him at C, let alone him being played with another big. As for offense, as long as he can't space the floor at a high level (that would be 35-36% from deep on decent volume) or handle the ball, he's not going to be a perimeter player on offense.
Don't care about comps - just looking at his skills as they are.
"he will very likely be ready to carry the torch when the big 3 are officially over the hill." - he's shown very little indication that he'll be a high-level defensive player which is what will dictate how good he is going to be. Let's be real - he's not an offensive unicorn C like Jokic or Towns. He needs to be a defensive stalwart. He's quite the opposite right now. The only things he's good at right now is as a roll-man and play finisher on offense.
What he is now is not the point. We have been through this again and again. We knew when we drafted Wiseman that he was raw, no college, no summer league, no training camp. And he has missed time since. What he is now is a physical specimen with a pretty nice shooting form, raw skill, and willingness to learn. Expecting more this season is moving the goalposts. Next year he'll be b better but still a pup. He was drafted for what he can be in a few years, as Andre says. Then we will know whether drafting him was a good decision. We probably won't know that this year.
Most high-level players show they'll be really good within 2-3 years. The Randles and Giannises of this world are rare.
Regardless, we cannot afford to wait 4-5 years even if Wiseman turns into a monster. Steph would be 37-38 and I'm pretty sure Dray would've retired by then.
Seeing what LaMelo is right now, I'm certain 30 out of 30 franchises choose LaMelo over Wiseman if you asked them today. That already provides a very decent signal as to whether we made the right decision or not. We won't "know" until later, but we can make educated guesses with increasing precision. It's not looking great right now, even if Wiseman pans out (which I don't believe he will) due to how valuable LaMelo augurs to be.
But we DID take Wiseman. Apparently Joe Lacob personally made that decision. Done deal. Coulda shoulda woulda are powerless words, they all died yesterday. What matters is where we go from here. What we can afford depends on what the team's goals are and what other moves the team makes, which we don't know yet. If drafting Wiseman was a bad decision in 2-3 years, we'll have a different discussion and you can say you told us so.
Don’t forget that the Warriors superpower was playing with joy. And LaMelo added that very thing to the Hornets this year. That would amplify the Curry/Klay vibe that’s been missing since Iguodala left and Klay’s been out.
So yes the FO should be held accountable for blowing the timeline and selecting poorly for the team. But Wiseman himself should not be declared a bust for progressing at a normal timeline for a top C.