What can we look forward to in the future? I think Steph works on his range. I mean, in that video, nearly all of the shots are within the W's half of the court; there's a whole other side of the court to explore and stretch defenses to.
Thanks for the excellent article, Duby. Didn't find it until today, but a pleasure to be reading you again.
We all know how good Curry is offensively, but what really impressed me was his defensive improvement this year. I guess his improved physique helped him bully some of these opposing guards while continuing to rely on his always excellent footwork.
He's always been a very solid positional defender, but the increased versatility afforded to him by his improved physique was definitely noticeable.
For all the hand-wringing over Simmons, he still had really really good +- numbers in the playoffs. The big question is would it be possible to accommodate both Draymond and Simmons in the same team?
Simmons is a Draymond without the Steph telepathy or motivation to shoot when a shot is required. While he’s significantly taller, he doesn’t play like it. I want to see how Simmons could actually work for this team (Sleepy?) but right now I don’t see it.
Even more than the insane playing ability that goes with being the most skilled player of all time, perhaps even more than him being an incredible, humble and likable human being, Steph has one more thing that very few athletes ever have - he is genuinely incredible to watch. He makes a random games against the atrocious, tanking Thunder in April an event because he is Steph. He is worth the price of admission alone. Even this season, where the rest of the supporting cast was subpar (to say the least), Warriors still drew the highest audiences in the league because watching Steph is one of the most entertaining sights in all of sports. MJ and LeBron may be better players (with their combination of insane skills plus athleticism and physique), but is there anybody in NBA history you'd rather have be the face of your team than Steph? With his personality, jaw-dropping skill and incredible success, I would take Steph over anyone.
Old school vs New school? California mentality vs Colder climes? History vs Now? I doubt there will ever be consensus on these things as times change, memories change, and the emotional investment that people make in their icons. Some are still worshipping Babe Ruth. Is Sainthood next?
Oof - that’s a lot of words. But a lot of good work too on probably the most important question of the season. I don’t know the answer but I think his firm conclusion that Wiseman needs to be traded isn’t supported by his own analysis. This is more of an edict on Warriors’s coaching. Also, his assertion that JW is likely to be unhelpful early in the season due to his meniscus limiting summer work misses the point that next year the Warriors should be good enough to compete for a championship without JW. So the early regular season can be time for development- with the hope that JW can contribute in the playoffs. His skills show way too much potential to deal him away now for a non-star vet. All we need is for our center of the future to figure out enough of the game to earn real minutes in March. I think that’s doable.
I think we all saw the difference in the team without Wiseman. However, this is not proof that he should be traded as he was as raw as they come when they drafted him and without the benefit of an exhibition season or much practice time. I would think the odds would be in favor of JW improving next season and beyond. The real question is do the Warriors want to wait for him to reach a level of respectability? This is a hard question to answer especially if you are in a win now frame of mind. As raw as Wiseman was, he still averaged a respectable ppg and rpg and showed that he does have a shot. But if Charlotte wants to trade Lamelo for JW, I'm down with that!
I saw something from that author that I think more Warrior fans ought to consider. On Oubre's season:
"It was jarring to see how much time [Oubre] spent next to James Wiseman or Eric Paschall, even when playing with Steph Curry"
and
"This is why I find that 5 game sample size from the post-Wiseman injury era so intriguing; by virtue of injuries and trades, Steve Kerr was able to put Oubre in more optimal situations, which begs the question — why didn’t that happen earlier?"
I think the answer to that (which the author goes into) was pretty political, but it's part of why I'm baffled when I read people saying Oubre was a "bad fit", pointing out stuff like him not knowing where to be in Game 3 as if that was still the case after the All Star break. Wiseman was the bad fit, Oubre was looking great with these guys when Wiseman (and Paschall) was unavailable. And it's still very notable to me that Curry/Oubre/Wiggins/Draymond was positive with Looney and negative with Wiseman, poor spacing and all.
Lacob and crew seem all too eager to move on from Oubre but I think it's a big mistake if he's at all willing to come back. And if not, I'd think hard about trading Wiggins and re-signing Oubre, although I know I'm in the minority for that, but I think it's a better way to retain the maximum possible talent.
I agree with this. I think Oubre is a great player just short of being a borderline star, but I'm not sure Oubre offers even the same as Wiggins even if Wiggins play doesn't justify his contract.
That was a rather depressing deep dive. Had to come up for air a couple of times.
Buuuttt, the rate of JWs improvement towards the end of the year gave me a few reasons to be optimistic. I think he’s upward trend will continue, but maybe not at the rate we had initially hoped.
I believe in his potential and his ability to fulfill it. Time will tell if this is blind optimism!
There are legit critiques of JW’s season obviously, but the author’s selection of which stats to rely on and trashing of per 36 numbers belies that it was written backwards from a conclusion.
The author has basically used all of the available stats out there. It's not like RPM says Wiseman is great while RAPTOR says he sucks, each advanced metric out there says he was terrible (historically so).
As for trashing per 36 minutes counting stats, I hope we have all learned that using those to evaluate players should indeed be trashed.
By this logic, Jordan Poole should have been waived after his rookie year. All the advanced metrics AND the woebegone counting stats said he was the worst player in the NBA. What’s your point, again?
Fair enough. But traded for whom/what? The guy makes $9 million/year. Who's out there at that price that the Ws would want more? Wiseman, for all his faults, has a tremendous upside. Whom do you imagine the Ws getting in return?
Unfortunately, rookies often are horrible and don't improve too. Poole was incredible in his improvement and now legitimately might have a future in the league. Paschall was also horrible by advanced stats and might be out of the league in another 2 years. the question is is Wiseman more DeAndre Ayton or more Marvin Bagley?
The whole thing is a long-winded editorial full of self-important statements like this: “The indisputable and sad truth is that James Wiseman had a terrible rookie season.”
Everyone agrees on that though, surely? Be it due to coaching misuse, injuries, COVID or the Front Office's ineptitude in surrounding their rim-running C with adequate floor-spacing, James Wiseman did have a terrible rookie year.
No definitely not. I thought he showed promise and did okay for a rookie big with three games in college, no summer league, no training camp, a wrist injury, and finally a meniscus tear. I also think DFib is right, a lot of people had unreasonable expectations.
I don’t agree with it. I think he was showing improvement when his knee got injured, and many here agree with that. I think a lot of well-informed dubs fans have a lot of different grades they would give him, but most would be some variation on “incomplete.”
And just so that conclusion is clear, the whole article revolves around this idea and quote: “For the sake of both parties, the Warriors should trade James Wiseman.”
On the Wiseman thread ... ever take an apple-sized bite out of a raw onion? Like some of Wiseman's play this year, it's gonna make you cry and it's gonna be hard to swallow. But talk to any great Chef and they will tell you that there are few ingredients in their pantry that have more value than the onion. Depending on its preparation, its flavor changes and it adds depth and complexity to any and all recipes. Looking at Wiseman's raw numbers and drawing assumptions out of those numbers is equivalent to taking a bite out of a raw onion and coming to the conclusion that you shouldn't ever use onions for anything.
You have to have patience to caramelize an onion, but if you do, you get a flavor that would seem utterly impossible to have been drawn from that eye watering crunchy raw onion. All the numbers tell you about Wiseman is that he's just gotten out of the grocery bag and onto the kitchen counter. The Chef hasn't even started cooking with him yet. If you want a championship recipe, you need the right ingredients and you don't short cut the process. For those who lack patience, I would suggest that they stay out of the kitchen, let the Lacobs, Meyers and Kerrs cook, and relax before dinner with a nice glass of wine. Numbers don't lie, but neither does the onion. The introduction of Wiseman to the Warrior's recipe will be profound and when that dish is truly ready, the tears in your eyes will be tears of joy.
Much appreciated. I'm a long winded bastard, but I do write with the idea in mind that the content is mostly redeemable and enjoyable for those reading. And shout out to Dub Nation HQ and its members. A great forum for fans of the game. ;-)
"Gravity 2 - Re-Entry" - Starring Sandra Bullock & Stephen Curry and introducing Space Klay
In the history of bball, one object has commanded the attention of all those on the court, and that's the basketball. Above all things, it has gravity. Everyone orbits it, everyone is drawn to it, it commands the unending attention of 10 pairs of eyes for 48 minutes.
Fast forward. Y'all know the play. Playoffs, may have even been the finals, Warriors fast break, Curry (off ball) flairs to the top-left edge of 3 point line, and lone defender leaves ball handler to defend Curry (who doesn't have the ball). Ball handler drives unimpeded down the lane for an uncontested dunk.
This single play is the very definition of gravity and for the first time a player without the ball in their hands, created gravity that equaled if not exceeded the gravity that is an inherent property of the ball itself. The very threat of Curry at the 3 point line without the ball was now equal to the threat of a wide open dunk. Add to Curry a guy who can get as hot as the sun itself in Klay and you have a standard basketball court that becomes warped like space around a black hole. And this is what made the Warriors who they are. It wasn't all the 3 point shots. It wasn't KD. It wasn't the long wingspans and switch heavy defense. It was the fact that Steph and Klay changed the Physics of basketball by creating gravity without the ball, stretching and twisting opposing defenses like a taffy machine combined with having high IQ players, most importantly Dray, who could exploit the warped space on the court, finding the holes in the defense created by the combined gravity exerted on the court by Steph, Klay and the Ball itself.
This is not a style of play that can be emulated. The combination of Steph-Klay-Dray (aka, Copernicus) is one for the ages. It is a style of play that is reliant on personnel and a coach that understands what the hell is happening when those guys share the court. Offensively, the league has not copied the Warriors. If the league has copied anyone, it's the Houston Rockets: P&R, 3 wide out, drive and kick, hoist the 3s. The Warriors on the other hand, use gravity and sleight of hand to produce higher efficiency shots from anywhere on the floor, not just behind the 3-point line.
In my mind, the Warriors core still has a secret weapon that no other team in the league has, and that is Masters degrees in Astronomy and Physics. Light years, baby. Light years.
Haha. No dude, your user name is hilarious. But Dray is Copernicus. No one knows gravity and the motion of the planets, steph & klay, like he does. I think Dray is one of the greatest "Team-Players" to ever play the game and his personal stats are almost irrelevant compared to the non-statistical ways he impacts a game.
Pre-Lottery Notes. Between 2013-2018 (7 years), The Warriors had 6 draft picks including 2 purchased 2nd round picks (McCaw & Bell). Using standard draft value models, the Warriors had the worst draft value in the league, having a total value equal to drafting the 37th pick 7 years in a row. In the same period, Philadelphia had 35 drafts picks, including two #1s, two #3s, two #10s and a #11. Their total draft value for that period (highest in the league) was NINE TIMES the value of the Warriors.
Given that, what team would you rather have today, including picks in the upcoming draft? Curry-Klay-Dray, Wiggs, Wiseman, Poole, Looney, JTA, etc. or Embiid, Harris, little brother who can't guard Heurter, 4th Qtr Simmons and company? Yeah, I believe in the process. ... the Warriors process.
But Curry, Klay and Dray were already on the team prior to your 7-year comparison. That’s a little like having a $10 million mansion and saying, “Look how much nicer my home is than your trailer after we both painted our houses.”
Ahh, fair enough. But what were Steph, Klay, Dray? 7, 11, 35? You would think that over the 7 year period described above, with 27 more picks than the Warriors, including #1, #1, #3, #3, #10, #10, #11, that Philly ought to have been able to close that gap and make the question of "which team would you pick today" a mute point as Philly should have a far better team hands down. And, on paper, and by record last year, they certainly do. Yet, asking the question today, which team would I choose, more importantly, which team is more likely to win a title in the next 3 years, ehhhhhhh, I'm still leaning towards the Warriors. I'm still taking the guys I know aren't afraid of the moment. Anyway, point taken concerning the quality of each team circa 2012. tx
Yeah, but Myers and Kerr are still terrible and should be fired and Lacob and Guber should sell the team to owners that are willing to pay $350m in luxury tax. Seriously though, the Sixers problems are primarily Embiids inability to stay healthy (not unusual for 7 footers) and Simmons inability to shoot. Had they managed to trade Simmons before everybody noticed that not being able to shoot is a serious liability they would be playing the Bucks right now.
Real bummer for Embiid. He's hurt and his wingman lost his wings and he's got Doc on the sidelines. That is rough. But Philly, because of having so much draft capital over the years, does have the kind of depth through the middle of their roster that the Warriors have lacked for having so little. So on paper, Philly is a really good team and if Embiid wasn't injured, he may very well have pulled Simmons and Doc to the Finals. The question about which team would you choose is an attempt to get some folks (who believe the Warriors can't win another title unless they add 4 more Superstars to the roster) to remember who is actually on this team, ie, Steph Klay & Dray, and what they have already accomplished. With that threesome healthy, I just don't think the NBA landscape is as daunting as most people think, especially when they view all opposing teams through rose colored glasses.
Overrated!!! (haha, joking by the way). Your right, words and stats just can't describe who Curry is, on or off the court. He is one of the rare players that you just have to be able to say you saw with your own eyes, because as the year's pass, the real facts begin to sound like pure fantasy. Bonds, Curry, Montana, Panda, Posey & the entire Giant's pitching staff, China Klay, Draymond stopping 3 on 1 fast breaks defensively routinely .... these are players and moments in sports that defy description.
"The answer to your question is -- never say never," Lacob told Kawakami. "We will look at everything. We always will look at everything. If something came along that blew us away, all bets are off. But I think it's extremely unlikely.
"I think we're gonna roll with James Wiseman, the emerging Jordan Poole -- [who] turned out to be a great draft choice -- and two lottery picks in a great draft. I think that's a great way to go."
Regardless of your views on this, it is important to remember that they said a lot of this "never say never but I wouldn't bet on it" stuff about D'Angelo Russell too. I don't think Wiseman is getting traded this summer, but I don't put much stock into Lacob saying that.
Sidebar, according to a Bleacher Report article, the Warriors were trying to get two first rounders from the Wolves in that Russell deal. It was probably just a negotiating tactic to reduce the protections on this one, but just imagine if they had another lol.
The reality is what Kerr said; everybody except Steph Curry is available for trade given the right offer, and even Curry would be available if he wanted out.
I like how he's always very open about "hey, if somebody blows up away with a trade offer" when others seem to think this will be interpreted poorly by the players they are talking about.
Everybody in the league knows they are a tradable "asset". Not answering directly is just weird to me. I love Steph, but if somebody put together a package of Embiid, Booker, Mitchell, and a few unprotected #1s from bad teams, I'd take it.
That is such a gross proposition. I am not a fan of winning uber alles. As a dubs fan, I’m lucky enough to watch the beautiful game played by an incredibly synergistic team that at its best is championship caliber. Steph is the embodiment of all that I love in sports. You act like that is quantifiable in a way that I just feel it isn’t.
I was trying to think of what single team could offer a trio of younger players that would feed you for years to come. Best I can think of would be either NOP with Ingram, Zion and Ball (but he’s a FA), Phoenix with Booker Aston and Bridges, Minny with KAT, Edward’s and Beasley. Joker, Murray and Porter would probably be my favorite. Murray, Klay, Porter, Draymond and Joker would be absurd.
Something that became very clear to me this season is that the Hawks would probably have the best trade package in the league should they choose to go that route. Huerter, Hunter, Reddish, Okongwu (too early to write him off just like Wiseman), presumably a full slate of picks. Gallinari for contract matching purposes.
For the record, I didn’t suggest we trade him. I’m saying “Who could put together the best 3-player deal?” Purely a thought experiment. I hope Steph is a Warrior forever.
> I love Steph, and if somebody put together a package of Embiid, Booker, Mitchell, and a few unprotected #1s from bad teams, I'd take them out back and give them a beating.
I hope the team is patient in their approach to finding the right way to "maximize Curry's prime". If they can find a good trade in the offseason, great. If not, keep looking and see what comes available at the trade deadline... To that end, it may not be the worst if Minny keeps their pick this year, as an unprotected 1st rounder may actually be a more valuable trade at the deadline than a specific player already halfway through the first year of their rookie contract.
Nice DDD! I imagine Curry is tough to write about without getting into hyperbole as you said, but loved this take.
As far as any weakness, I’d love for him to take better care of the ball. Those careless turnovers are small potatoes in relation to everything he brings, but one or two of them can make the difference in a game.
What can we look forward to in the future? I think Steph works on his range. I mean, in that video, nearly all of the shots are within the W's half of the court; there's a whole other side of the court to explore and stretch defenses to.
Thanks for the excellent article, Duby. Didn't find it until today, but a pleasure to be reading you again.
We all know how good Curry is offensively, but what really impressed me was his defensive improvement this year. I guess his improved physique helped him bully some of these opposing guards while continuing to rely on his always excellent footwork.
He's always been a very solid positional defender, but the increased versatility afforded to him by his improved physique was definitely noticeable.
For all the hand-wringing over Simmons, he still had really really good +- numbers in the playoffs. The big question is would it be possible to accommodate both Draymond and Simmons in the same team?
Simmons is a Draymond without the Steph telepathy or motivation to shoot when a shot is required. While he’s significantly taller, he doesn’t play like it. I want to see how Simmons could actually work for this team (Sleepy?) but right now I don’t see it.
Even more than the insane playing ability that goes with being the most skilled player of all time, perhaps even more than him being an incredible, humble and likable human being, Steph has one more thing that very few athletes ever have - he is genuinely incredible to watch. He makes a random games against the atrocious, tanking Thunder in April an event because he is Steph. He is worth the price of admission alone. Even this season, where the rest of the supporting cast was subpar (to say the least), Warriors still drew the highest audiences in the league because watching Steph is one of the most entertaining sights in all of sports. MJ and LeBron may be better players (with their combination of insane skills plus athleticism and physique), but is there anybody in NBA history you'd rather have be the face of your team than Steph? With his personality, jaw-dropping skill and incredible success, I would take Steph over anyone.
Old school vs New school? California mentality vs Colder climes? History vs Now? I doubt there will ever be consensus on these things as times change, memories change, and the emotional investment that people make in their icons. Some are still worshipping Babe Ruth. Is Sainthood next?
An article about James Wiseman's rookie season that I would greatly recommend for all Warriors fans - https://kellyroldan.substack.com/p/the-warriors-season-in-review-james
Oof - that’s a lot of words. But a lot of good work too on probably the most important question of the season. I don’t know the answer but I think his firm conclusion that Wiseman needs to be traded isn’t supported by his own analysis. This is more of an edict on Warriors’s coaching. Also, his assertion that JW is likely to be unhelpful early in the season due to his meniscus limiting summer work misses the point that next year the Warriors should be good enough to compete for a championship without JW. So the early regular season can be time for development- with the hope that JW can contribute in the playoffs. His skills show way too much potential to deal him away now for a non-star vet. All we need is for our center of the future to figure out enough of the game to earn real minutes in March. I think that’s doable.
I think we all saw the difference in the team without Wiseman. However, this is not proof that he should be traded as he was as raw as they come when they drafted him and without the benefit of an exhibition season or much practice time. I would think the odds would be in favor of JW improving next season and beyond. The real question is do the Warriors want to wait for him to reach a level of respectability? This is a hard question to answer especially if you are in a win now frame of mind. As raw as Wiseman was, he still averaged a respectable ppg and rpg and showed that he does have a shot. But if Charlotte wants to trade Lamelo for JW, I'm down with that!
I saw something from that author that I think more Warrior fans ought to consider. On Oubre's season:
"It was jarring to see how much time [Oubre] spent next to James Wiseman or Eric Paschall, even when playing with Steph Curry"
and
"This is why I find that 5 game sample size from the post-Wiseman injury era so intriguing; by virtue of injuries and trades, Steve Kerr was able to put Oubre in more optimal situations, which begs the question — why didn’t that happen earlier?"
I think the answer to that (which the author goes into) was pretty political, but it's part of why I'm baffled when I read people saying Oubre was a "bad fit", pointing out stuff like him not knowing where to be in Game 3 as if that was still the case after the All Star break. Wiseman was the bad fit, Oubre was looking great with these guys when Wiseman (and Paschall) was unavailable. And it's still very notable to me that Curry/Oubre/Wiggins/Draymond was positive with Looney and negative with Wiseman, poor spacing and all.
Lacob and crew seem all too eager to move on from Oubre but I think it's a big mistake if he's at all willing to come back. And if not, I'd think hard about trading Wiggins and re-signing Oubre, although I know I'm in the minority for that, but I think it's a better way to retain the maximum possible talent.
I agree with this. I think Oubre is a great player just short of being a borderline star, but I'm not sure Oubre offers even the same as Wiggins even if Wiggins play doesn't justify his contract.
That was a rather depressing deep dive. Had to come up for air a couple of times.
Buuuttt, the rate of JWs improvement towards the end of the year gave me a few reasons to be optimistic. I think he’s upward trend will continue, but maybe not at the rate we had initially hoped.
I believe in his potential and his ability to fulfill it. Time will tell if this is blind optimism!
There are legit critiques of JW’s season obviously, but the author’s selection of which stats to rely on and trashing of per 36 numbers belies that it was written backwards from a conclusion.
The author has basically used all of the available stats out there. It's not like RPM says Wiseman is great while RAPTOR says he sucks, each advanced metric out there says he was terrible (historically so).
As for trashing per 36 minutes counting stats, I hope we have all learned that using those to evaluate players should indeed be trashed.
By this logic, Jordan Poole should have been waived after his rookie year. All the advanced metrics AND the woebegone counting stats said he was the worst player in the NBA. What’s your point, again?
And he was one of the worst players in the league. He improved at a ridiculous rate this year. That does happen sometimes, but most times it doesn't.
No one is calling for Wiseman to be waived. Most are asking for him to be traded.
Fair enough. But traded for whom/what? The guy makes $9 million/year. Who's out there at that price that the Ws would want more? Wiseman, for all his faults, has a tremendous upside. Whom do you imagine the Ws getting in return?
It happens for rookies quite a lot… they are often horrible (especially bigs), and improve with reps
Unfortunately, rookies often are horrible and don't improve too. Poole was incredible in his improvement and now legitimately might have a future in the league. Paschall was also horrible by advanced stats and might be out of the league in another 2 years. the question is is Wiseman more DeAndre Ayton or more Marvin Bagley?
The whole thing is a long-winded editorial full of self-important statements like this: “The indisputable and sad truth is that James Wiseman had a terrible rookie season.”
Everyone agrees on that though, surely? Be it due to coaching misuse, injuries, COVID or the Front Office's ineptitude in surrounding their rim-running C with adequate floor-spacing, James Wiseman did have a terrible rookie year.
No definitely not. I thought he showed promise and did okay for a rookie big with three games in college, no summer league, no training camp, a wrist injury, and finally a meniscus tear. I also think DFib is right, a lot of people had unreasonable expectations.
You forgot to list “being a rookie big man with unreasonable fan expectations”
No
I don’t agree with it. I think he was showing improvement when his knee got injured, and many here agree with that. I think a lot of well-informed dubs fans have a lot of different grades they would give him, but most would be some variation on “incomplete.”
And just so that conclusion is clear, the whole article revolves around this idea and quote: “For the sake of both parties, the Warriors should trade James Wiseman.”
On the Wiseman thread ... ever take an apple-sized bite out of a raw onion? Like some of Wiseman's play this year, it's gonna make you cry and it's gonna be hard to swallow. But talk to any great Chef and they will tell you that there are few ingredients in their pantry that have more value than the onion. Depending on its preparation, its flavor changes and it adds depth and complexity to any and all recipes. Looking at Wiseman's raw numbers and drawing assumptions out of those numbers is equivalent to taking a bite out of a raw onion and coming to the conclusion that you shouldn't ever use onions for anything.
You have to have patience to caramelize an onion, but if you do, you get a flavor that would seem utterly impossible to have been drawn from that eye watering crunchy raw onion. All the numbers tell you about Wiseman is that he's just gotten out of the grocery bag and onto the kitchen counter. The Chef hasn't even started cooking with him yet. If you want a championship recipe, you need the right ingredients and you don't short cut the process. For those who lack patience, I would suggest that they stay out of the kitchen, let the Lacobs, Meyers and Kerrs cook, and relax before dinner with a nice glass of wine. Numbers don't lie, but neither does the onion. The introduction of Wiseman to the Warrior's recipe will be profound and when that dish is truly ready, the tears in your eyes will be tears of joy.
Did you know onions give a lot of people gas?
Well, it's one way to clear out the lane and open it up for back door cuts.
Dude, your skill with words is quite something!
Insightful too. Thanks, Peter.
Much appreciated. I'm a long winded bastard, but I do write with the idea in mind that the content is mostly redeemable and enjoyable for those reading. And shout out to Dub Nation HQ and its members. A great forum for fans of the game. ;-)
Sounds like trying to tank his value so someone else can pick him up on the cheap
"Gravity 2 - Re-Entry" - Starring Sandra Bullock & Stephen Curry and introducing Space Klay
In the history of bball, one object has commanded the attention of all those on the court, and that's the basketball. Above all things, it has gravity. Everyone orbits it, everyone is drawn to it, it commands the unending attention of 10 pairs of eyes for 48 minutes.
Fast forward. Y'all know the play. Playoffs, may have even been the finals, Warriors fast break, Curry (off ball) flairs to the top-left edge of 3 point line, and lone defender leaves ball handler to defend Curry (who doesn't have the ball). Ball handler drives unimpeded down the lane for an uncontested dunk.
This single play is the very definition of gravity and for the first time a player without the ball in their hands, created gravity that equaled if not exceeded the gravity that is an inherent property of the ball itself. The very threat of Curry at the 3 point line without the ball was now equal to the threat of a wide open dunk. Add to Curry a guy who can get as hot as the sun itself in Klay and you have a standard basketball court that becomes warped like space around a black hole. And this is what made the Warriors who they are. It wasn't all the 3 point shots. It wasn't KD. It wasn't the long wingspans and switch heavy defense. It was the fact that Steph and Klay changed the Physics of basketball by creating gravity without the ball, stretching and twisting opposing defenses like a taffy machine combined with having high IQ players, most importantly Dray, who could exploit the warped space on the court, finding the holes in the defense created by the combined gravity exerted on the court by Steph, Klay and the Ball itself.
This is not a style of play that can be emulated. The combination of Steph-Klay-Dray (aka, Copernicus) is one for the ages. It is a style of play that is reliant on personnel and a coach that understands what the hell is happening when those guys share the court. Offensively, the league has not copied the Warriors. If the league has copied anyone, it's the Houston Rockets: P&R, 3 wide out, drive and kick, hoist the 3s. The Warriors on the other hand, use gravity and sleight of hand to produce higher efficiency shots from anywhere on the floor, not just behind the 3-point line.
In my mind, the Warriors core still has a secret weapon that no other team in the league has, and that is Masters degrees in Astronomy and Physics. Light years, baby. Light years.
Oops, dinner time. tbc .....
Awesome Peter. I’m seriously considering changing my user name to Copernicus
Haha. No dude, your user name is hilarious. But Dray is Copernicus. No one knows gravity and the motion of the planets, steph & klay, like he does. I think Dray is one of the greatest "Team-Players" to ever play the game and his personal stats are almost irrelevant compared to the non-statistical ways he impacts a game.
Pre-Lottery Notes. Between 2013-2018 (7 years), The Warriors had 6 draft picks including 2 purchased 2nd round picks (McCaw & Bell). Using standard draft value models, the Warriors had the worst draft value in the league, having a total value equal to drafting the 37th pick 7 years in a row. In the same period, Philadelphia had 35 drafts picks, including two #1s, two #3s, two #10s and a #11. Their total draft value for that period (highest in the league) was NINE TIMES the value of the Warriors.
Given that, what team would you rather have today, including picks in the upcoming draft? Curry-Klay-Dray, Wiggs, Wiseman, Poole, Looney, JTA, etc. or Embiid, Harris, little brother who can't guard Heurter, 4th Qtr Simmons and company? Yeah, I believe in the process. ... the Warriors process.
But Curry, Klay and Dray were already on the team prior to your 7-year comparison. That’s a little like having a $10 million mansion and saying, “Look how much nicer my home is than your trailer after we both painted our houses.”
Ahh, fair enough. But what were Steph, Klay, Dray? 7, 11, 35? You would think that over the 7 year period described above, with 27 more picks than the Warriors, including #1, #1, #3, #3, #10, #10, #11, that Philly ought to have been able to close that gap and make the question of "which team would you pick today" a mute point as Philly should have a far better team hands down. And, on paper, and by record last year, they certainly do. Yet, asking the question today, which team would I choose, more importantly, which team is more likely to win a title in the next 3 years, ehhhhhhh, I'm still leaning towards the Warriors. I'm still taking the guys I know aren't afraid of the moment. Anyway, point taken concerning the quality of each team circa 2012. tx
Yeah, but Myers and Kerr are still terrible and should be fired and Lacob and Guber should sell the team to owners that are willing to pay $350m in luxury tax. Seriously though, the Sixers problems are primarily Embiids inability to stay healthy (not unusual for 7 footers) and Simmons inability to shoot. Had they managed to trade Simmons before everybody noticed that not being able to shoot is a serious liability they would be playing the Bucks right now.
Real bummer for Embiid. He's hurt and his wingman lost his wings and he's got Doc on the sidelines. That is rough. But Philly, because of having so much draft capital over the years, does have the kind of depth through the middle of their roster that the Warriors have lacked for having so little. So on paper, Philly is a really good team and if Embiid wasn't injured, he may very well have pulled Simmons and Doc to the Finals. The question about which team would you choose is an attempt to get some folks (who believe the Warriors can't win another title unless they add 4 more Superstars to the roster) to remember who is actually on this team, ie, Steph Klay & Dray, and what they have already accomplished. With that threesome healthy, I just don't think the NBA landscape is as daunting as most people think, especially when they view all opposing teams through rose colored glasses.
And Fultz’ freak career…
This is gold
Overrated!!! (haha, joking by the way). Your right, words and stats just can't describe who Curry is, on or off the court. He is one of the rare players that you just have to be able to say you saw with your own eyes, because as the year's pass, the real facts begin to sound like pure fantasy. Bonds, Curry, Montana, Panda, Posey & the entire Giant's pitching staff, China Klay, Draymond stopping 3 on 1 fast breaks defensively routinely .... these are players and moments in sports that defy description.
If I, too, want to become a more efficient shooter, which type of scissors should I be running with?
(I'm thinking of starting with those little Swiss army knife scissors)
Start with the Big Lebowski scissors
Rec’d for El Dudorino reference
The Dub Abides
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/why-warriors-james-wiseman-trade-very-unlikely-joe-lacob
"The answer to your question is -- never say never," Lacob told Kawakami. "We will look at everything. We always will look at everything. If something came along that blew us away, all bets are off. But I think it's extremely unlikely.
"I think we're gonna roll with James Wiseman, the emerging Jordan Poole -- [who] turned out to be a great draft choice -- and two lottery picks in a great draft. I think that's a great way to go."
It's certainly a viable option, but there will be some changes to the roster, hopefully not brought about by disaster.
Regardless of your views on this, it is important to remember that they said a lot of this "never say never but I wouldn't bet on it" stuff about D'Angelo Russell too. I don't think Wiseman is getting traded this summer, but I don't put much stock into Lacob saying that.
Sidebar, according to a Bleacher Report article, the Warriors were trying to get two first rounders from the Wolves in that Russell deal. It was probably just a negotiating tactic to reduce the protections on this one, but just imagine if they had another lol.
The reality is what Kerr said; everybody except Steph Curry is available for trade given the right offer, and even Curry would be available if he wanted out.
I feel like they were randomly more insistent on saying that we wouldn't trade dlo
"We didn't sign him to trade him"
The media was asking them about it a lot more, given the “fit”
I kind of respect how unfiltered Lacob is even if it may not always make sense
I like how he's always very open about "hey, if somebody blows up away with a trade offer" when others seem to think this will be interpreted poorly by the players they are talking about.
Everybody in the league knows they are a tradable "asset". Not answering directly is just weird to me. I love Steph, but if somebody put together a package of Embiid, Booker, Mitchell, and a few unprotected #1s from bad teams, I'd take it.
That is such a gross proposition. I am not a fan of winning uber alles. As a dubs fan, I’m lucky enough to watch the beautiful game played by an incredibly synergistic team that at its best is championship caliber. Steph is the embodiment of all that I love in sports. You act like that is quantifiable in a way that I just feel it isn’t.
Yeah, there’s no package that will ever cross Bob’s desk that will ever be worthwhile.
You might take it, but I wouldn’t watch em… I’d go watch Steph.
I was trying to think of what single team could offer a trio of younger players that would feed you for years to come. Best I can think of would be either NOP with Ingram, Zion and Ball (but he’s a FA), Phoenix with Booker Aston and Bridges, Minny with KAT, Edward’s and Beasley. Joker, Murray and Porter would probably be my favorite. Murray, Klay, Porter, Draymond and Joker would be absurd.
Something that became very clear to me this season is that the Hawks would probably have the best trade package in the league should they choose to go that route. Huerter, Hunter, Reddish, Okongwu (too early to write him off just like Wiseman), presumably a full slate of picks. Gallinari for contract matching purposes.
Okongwu has been pretty good in the playoffs. Switchable and mobile centers are always useful in the playoffs.
I'm an Okongwu fan, this time last year I was saying that if the Warriors insisted on taking a center I'd prefer Okongwu over Wiseman.
With Wiggins, Poole, JTA, Looney and Wiseman off the bench.
FLAGGED! (for suggesting a Stephless future)
For the record, I didn’t suggest we trade him. I’m saying “Who could put together the best 3-player deal?” Purely a thought experiment. I hope Steph is a Warrior forever.
Snap!
This
> I love Steph, and if somebody put together a package of Embiid, Booker, Mitchell, and a few unprotected #1s from bad teams, I'd take them out back and give them a beating.
No problem, I fixed your typos.
Lol
Agree with the first paragraph, disagree with the 2nd lol
I think this is good because it shows he's not afraid to trade Wiseman even though Wiseman may have been his pick.
I hope the team is patient in their approach to finding the right way to "maximize Curry's prime". If they can find a good trade in the offseason, great. If not, keep looking and see what comes available at the trade deadline... To that end, it may not be the worst if Minny keeps their pick this year, as an unprotected 1st rounder may actually be a more valuable trade at the deadline than a specific player already halfway through the first year of their rookie contract.
While I wish Curry had a 50/40/90 this past season, the standard was not met. Obligatory: Kyrie sucks.
Kyrie does suck... but Austin Rivers sucks too.
Tremendous!
Nice DDD! I imagine Curry is tough to write about without getting into hyperbole as you said, but loved this take.
As far as any weakness, I’d love for him to take better care of the ball. Those careless turnovers are small potatoes in relation to everything he brings, but one or two of them can make the difference in a game.
So, A+
like that scene from A Christmas Story, where the teacher scampers down the chalkboard making extra plus signs!
Yassssss!
“You’ll shoot the lights out!”
You’re not confused, D cubed is :). 48.2 < 50.
that's... yeah. Oopsies. My eyeballs must've scrambled something up. I was so sure...