Don’t know if belilaugh mentioned but Jules Bernard has been out of college since 2022 (played at UCLA). Basically another Johnny Juzang (his teammate) without his shot making ability. Surprised he’s still hanging around pro basketball here tbh
Taking in a Lot of assumptions, here is my list of +/- for this season in terms of: who improves the most at one end and who declines the most at the other.
I certainly hope you're wrong about Curry and Green, or the Warriors are going to be in trouble. A little decline is natural. But depending on how one interprets those -, this does not look hopeful to me.
Like you, I'd love for the young guys to step up. We'll see if your predictions hold. I get the impression that TJD may have a touch of Eric Pachall in him; hope that's wrong.
I'm curious why you see Hield improving so much. Are you just saying he had a bad year this past year and will regress to the mean in a helpful way?
I hope Moody and JK (if he stays) can improve more than a little. They're still quite young, so they could make a leap.
I'm not convinced GPII will even be on the team; ditto for Pat Spencer.
I kinda see the +/- based on each players standard from the previous year, so even though I think Curry will slip by his own standards, he will still be the best player on the team.
I think Hield, after a year of adjustments with the team/system, and buddying up with his new favourite Butler buddy (😂), he will be a Lot more consistent and hence improve ++
I don't really have any problem with JK having an over-inflated view of his game. That's not different than many young players. Beli has pointed out more than once that Aaron Gordon started out thinking he should be the guy, and evolved (faster than JK, admittedly).
JK wobbled a bit during the season (particularly at the beginning, when he was trying to be Kobe). But, he had a couple of OK stretches (just before the injury and during the playoffs), so I'm not ready to make that strong a characterization of his game.
To me, the real test is what he does AFTER this contract is signed. If he comes back to the Dubs, forgets about the contract negotiation bitterness (there is bound to be some), and plays the game the Dubs need from him, then great. If he hangs his head or acts out, a la Poole when he went to Washington, then I will be disappointed.
What did Kuminga do over the season that was so egregious? Played well, got hurt, got benched post-JB trade. Then showed some cojones in the playoffs with Curry out while most of the rest wilted?
My guess is that Kuminga's agent overvalues Kuminga's talent and is asking for more money than other teams are asking for, hence the delay in the free agency moves for the Warriors.
IIUC, I think signing Horford first puts a hard cap on how we can offer or match. I it would be ~$27M or something. That would let some team make an offer (such as $28M) that GSW wouldn’t be able to match. The more there appears to be no big FA market JFK, the moor of a moot point that becomes, but would also limit how much they could do a sign-and-trade.
JFK or JK? Thanks. Am I understanding - the Warriors MAY be waiting to sign Horford until they have clarity on JK situation? Iow Horford is not necessarily the one holding things up and we don’t get to know until everything is signed.
Indeed. But that can be expressed in a few ways. Some would say, "Jonathan F'ing Kuminga! 👍" Some would sigh and muse, "Jonathan F'ing Kuminga? 🤷🏻♂️" And a few would mutter "Jonathan F'ing Kuminga. 🙄"
I'd like to provoke a fight without taking a side, or at least not yet.
If you wish to participate, the prompt is: "Steve Kerr is not good at developing young players. He is a great coach of established players and has made vital contributions to NBA thinking about pace and space, about positionless basketball, about switching defenses, and leveraged Steph's abilities into a uniquely potent offense. And he helped Steph Klay Draymond Barnes all become better -- but they would have been damned good, anyway. The problem is that he just doesn't develop young guys who need more help."
Funny how no one dares mention MJAX AS SUPERB IN DEVELOPING YOUNG, TALENTED PLAYERS READY TO TAKE ON A 'SHIP RUN. To his great credit, KERR has always owned up to that. Nuff said.
Simple as this: we somehow turned 3 late 50's second rounders into rotation players. If that's not being good at developing young players I don't know what is.
Dubs young guys have not been world beaters even after they left the supposed shackles of Kerr-dom. Exhibits: J Poole, J Bell, P McCaw, D Jones, J Wiseman. OTOH, 'Kerr' players such as T Jerome have had success elsewhere after they played here. It's undeniable that OPJ, SDot even all stars DWest and Andre played their best ball under Kerr. Kerr got the best stretch out of players who were league laughing stocks such as Javale and OPJ. Steve is extremely stubborn and immature(basketball wise) players don't particularly do well under him, but think he's been the best amplifier of players in the league at least the last decade. I for one would like the Dubs to take a flyer on guys like Giddey(if available) or even Ben Simmons. I think Steve will get the best out of them.
Edit: Mycroft has made much better case below, my bad.
DLO was talented. POOLE was talented. WISEMAN was talented. JEROME was talented. Tough to break in on a 'Ship team; tougher to get developmental time and meet great expectations fast. Nuff said.
I think you're looking at some of this through homer glasses. What you say about the vets is entirely deniable. OPJ played his best ball in WASH before the injuries started. Livingston played about the same here as he had throughout his career after his catastrophic injury, neither better nor worse. We got DWest at the tail end of his career; he had far and away his best seasons in New Orleans, where he was a 2x All Star. He was pretty good in Indy too. Great as he was here, Andre was at his peak in Philly, where he made an All Star team.
That's not to take anything away from Kerr or the Dubs' organization; in fact, it's a credit to the FO that they were able to get players of that caliber who fit in so well here and to Kerr that he knew how to use them to advantage.
1. Kerr has developed multiple young players very successfully, including Kevon Looney, Brandon Podzemski, Quentin Post. And for me, Moses Moody (Some guys take longer than a year or two, and I have previously discussed extensively Moody's specific problems that cost him playing time - problems that Kerr has repeatedly, and publicly discussed). Gary Payton was not as young, but barely could play anywhere else. Gui Santos looks pretty damn good. Jordan Poole developed pretty well at GS I think. And Javale McGee went from Shaqtin' a Fool's all-time list to a long career, thanks in large part to Kerr. Kerr even developed a former lacrosse player into a third string point guard.
2. I'm not convinced Draymond would have been "good anyway" because I'm not sure most coaches would have seen the potential, or been willing to change the paradigm so he could play.
3. I feel lilke this narrative is unfairly skewed by GS horrible draft decision to take James Wiseman (who no one else has been able to develop) and the Kuminga-industrial complex's media machine. Given all of the successful development listed above, I would argue that most of the time when people say Kerr isn't good at developing "young players" they mean Kerr is not good at developing Jonathan Kuminga. This is a player that a) doesn't fit Kerr's system at all, b) by his own statement has no interest in fitting Kerr's system, because c) he wants to be a lead guy on a team that already has one of the best lead guys that ever lived. He has not been interested in or willing to pursue Kerr's requested development goals in summers. Kerr wanted ball-handling and all JK's videos were post moves. So I don't see him as Kerr's "failure. I see him as a square peg with a lot of ego. To "develop" JK on JK's terms would be to change systems and put Steph out to pasture. I'd draw that line in the sand too.
4. Other than that, GS has been a high end winning team for a bunch of years. Low draft picks don't "develop" most of the time for any coach on any team. Expecting Steve Kerr to develop:
Patrick Baldwin
Ryan Rollins
Nico Mannion
Justinian Jessup
Alen Smailagic!!!!!!
Jacob Evans
Eric Paschall
Jordan Bell
into NBA rotation players is putting a pretty high bar on what you would think is good young player development.
5. This is professional basketball at the highest level. If you need "more help" you are responsible for finding it yourself. The NBA is, and always has been, a league for self-starters.
As others have said, this is excellent. Thank you for taking the time.
I would add that Bob Myers (or possibly Joe Lacob) did Kerr no favors by drafting so many super young guys in rapid succession.
In 2020, they took a swing at Wiseman (19); horrible pick, but it was a pandemic year, so they were working with less info than usual. But they knew he was a player who would take a lot of minutes and years to develop. They also took Nico Mannion (19) in the 2nd round. Justinian Jessup never made it to the big team.
In 2021, they grabbed Kuminga (18) and Moody (19). More project players who would need minutes and years to develop -- this, at a time when Steph (33) and Dray (31) were still in their prime.
In 2022, they got PBJ (19), Rollins (19), and Santos (20). Even more project players, at a time when the Ws were trying to defend a championship and should have been in 'win now' mode.
I can only imagine that Bob Myers or others must have projected Steph, Klay, and Dray to decline rapidly. They were loading up on very young talent and expecting to play those young guys a lot of minutes as the core trio waned and rode into the sunset together.
But the 2020 championship should have signaled that the front office needed to change strategies and prioritize winning now. Somehow, they didn't get the memo. But I don't blame Kerr for that.
In my view the main “sides” in this discussion are: thoughtful and nuanced takes like the one you just articulated on one side, and hot takery, oversimplification, straw men, begging the question, and/or hidden agendas on the other.
I was honestly just interested in the debate. It happens a lot sub rosa so I thought I'd position it as an item for a discussion. I am reading and listening. Don't know.
A thing that interests me a great deal is the challenge of measuring human perceptions and behaviors. How do we know scientifically if someone is let's say more or less depressed? How do we know if a teacher or a coach is the variable in success? It seems very hard to prove anything either way, there being many other variables. Was Michael Jordan coached well by Phil Jackson? Well, probably. So that's why he won championships? Well, I'm not so sure that's a more definitive reason than MJ's leaping ability.
How much did my 11th grade English teacher teach me? How would we know if it lasted? That sort of thing.
I'm sorry if you felt it was in some way provoking in the negative sense. That was not my intent.
I was honestly just interested in the debate. It happens a lot sub rosa so I thought I'd position it as an item for a discussion. I am reading and listening. Don't know.
for someone who i consider to be an incredibly funny guy, you strangely sometimes seem to completely fail to recognise a joke. i even put a smilely face on the end ffs. additionally, on multiple occasions i've told you how much i appreciate your posts and how thankful i am for your participation.
I’d like to hear a coach who *has* been good developing talent when trying to *continue* winning. (I mean Kerr oversaw the flourishing and growth of the greatest young core in history Steph / Klay / Dray / Barnes but unfairly doesn’t get credit for that.)
The last one who I noticed celebrated as the anti-Kerr was Mike Malone for developing Braun. But then he was fired for not developing youth and playing Russ to win now.
So my assumption until proven otherwise is that no one is good at it and everyone complains about their coach all the time and thinks the other coach is better.
Are there any college coaches who stand out as doing it well? I don't follow college at all but aren't there some coaches at that level known (historically or now) for being good at it?
I would say the college coaches that actually develop and teach the best are guys you have never heard of. Division 2 and small colleges. Guys that love the game and working with players.
One coaching path is doing it because you love it and working with kids. Another is the desire to move in to the bright lights like big time D1.
Heck, there are quite a few high school coaches when it comes to teaching skills and even X’s and O’s that rank right there and even surpass big name coaches.
Not college, but Kenny Atkinson has a reputation for developing younger players. For that it helps to be coaching a team full of young players with no expectations. Kerr has had a grand total of one year imctjdt situation.
I think Calipari is not bad at it, particularly with project big guys (a lot of this is I think is because Kenny Payne is generally on his staffs, but Cal is smart enough to keep him). And even past centers, take a for instance look at the progression in college of Adou Thiero.
Amusingly, I was going to mention Calipari as a negative example as there’s a widespread idea of a Kentucky Tax … that players on his team were going to be better as pros than they projected as college players since he didn’t get the most out of them. But I’m willing to meet you or others halfway to say this is further proof that it’s hard to judge a coach’s contributions to development.
I was thinking in terms of who develops college players best to play the pro game. In terms of pure college development Greg McDermott (not Doug as I said in my original post) is pretty impressive, and I think Mark Few squeezes pretty much every drop of college potential out of his guys.
OKC's coach has been great, but they weren't defending a CS until two weeks ago. It remains to be seen whether their player development can continue apace now that they're pushing for another one?
If you look at how many picks OKC have had and how many have already washed out, it’s not obvious he’s unlocked the code. I’d want to see a careful study.
I just don’t think we’ve drafted well under the last half of the Myers regime. Thats it. I mean Poole had shown flashes as one of the lead dogs in Washington but no consistency and many of the same issues plaguing him for most of his GS tenure carried over in Washington. I think Moody is the anti Dray in that his physical attributes do not allow him to carve out a consistent role in either the front court or back court. He is way too slow to play the 2 or 3 and way too small to play the 4. JK imo
Is what we thought Wiseman was gonna be: needs consistent minutes to develop but I dont see stardom either. Wiseman is just plain awful at the mental attributes of basketball and that was defn never ever gonna be developed here.
As a Libra, I'm happy to take both sides (now). I'd say it is more that Steve never saw his role as a coach that should focus on developing players - he seems to have approached the job as a 5 or 10 year gig where we planned to maximize the HOF guys he had, and on the side, do what he could to develop young guys. But, other than the year when everyone was hurt, he was clearly trying to squeeze out a few more wins, and I sensed he never felt like it was the right time to focus on development. I also feel like a few of the high profile guys would not have succeeded even under the GOAT player dev coach (maybe Daigneault? Not sure who else is highly regarded) - specifically JW. But, he did get Poole to be a key contributor on a championship team, developed Loon to be a beloved and underrated contributor, and we currently have Podz and Post both playing at a starting level, and Moody is a very solid bench player, so it's not like every young player has ended up looking like Wiseman.
I'd think if he had a young team with no generational players to maximize, he might have done a better job of development or anyway put more focus on that. And maybe some other coach could have threaded that needle better than he did - for example, maybe wasting minutes on the Ty Jeromes and Anthony Lambs of the world didn't help our actual long term guys develop. So, I can see the opinion that he didn't do the best job of development, but I also don't think he has been totally incapable of developing the young guys.
Finally, maybe the question is more, did Steve hire the right guys to develop the kids? Isn't this more the asst coach's task rather than the head coach? That ultimately falls on him too, but may be more about the staff than Steve's own coaching.
You might say Ty Jerome was in fact a great success story as was divencenzo but our core salaries made them un retainable. No one has left to great success. Not wiseman or Poole or pbj.
It has to do with the teams "win now" mentality in the Kerr era. That doesn't always fit with development of young guys. The mistake was drafting young guys in the first place instead of retaining/acquiring established players. Jmho.
For much of the last decade they’ve been well into the luxury tax. How do you propose they could have consistently retained or acquired established players worth retaining or acquiring for going on a decade now, with increasingly little room to operate from a financial and structural standpoint?
I mean, I don’t expect you specifically or this site collectively to have an answer that would hold up to expert scrutiny. But it’s not like you say what you said and somewhere Bob Myers goes, “oh shit, why didn’t I think of that?”
With the 2nd pick (or trading down), the Warriors could have selected Tyrese Halliburton/Deni Advidja who were my two faves in that draft and Dubnation selected them in our tournament.
Or hey, with the 7th and 14th pick of the 2021 NBA draft, they could have selected Franz Wagner at 7th like I and most of DubnationHQ were advocating for and Sengun at 14 (which I was pushing for but DubnationHQ was happy with Moody).
If I had drafted instead of Myers, our team would have Tyrese Halliburton/Franz Wagner/Alperun Sengun on our team. We’d be much better than we are right now with Wiseman/Kuminga/Moody.
Alright, so did you get rid of both Klay before last year and Draymond, and probably one or two of those three you drafted? And if you got rid of Draymond, who on that team is actually playing competent defense?
We don’t have to get into anything else. You asked “ How do you propose they could have consistently retained or acquired established players worth retaining or acquiring for going on a decade now, with increasingly little room to operate from a financial and structural standpoint?”
I gave you three documented opportunities in the draft that I/DubnationHQ would have drafted better than Bob Myers. That difference would have netted us two time All Star Tyrese Halliburton, 1 time All Star Sengun, and NBA all rookie 1st team Franz Wagner.
So tell me, is having Halburton/Sengun/Wagner superior to having Wiseman/Kuminga/Moody? Would that have been a better acquisition of talent?
Haliburton and Avdija weren't on anybody's list as a top 5 pick in that draft, and they ended up going 12th and 9th, respectively. Criticizing the Dubs for not selecting either with the #2 goes against the universal view at the time. Nobody was going to make that pick.
Indeed, he was the choice here at DNHQ (by one vote over Wiseman, as I recall) but not in the NBA. But hey, Jokic was famously the 41st pick in 2014. Everybody passed on him at least once.
Hear me out. One thing that has happened through the dynasty years is that the same old thing has gotten old, and predictable, and stale. Sure, a Steph-Draymond pick and roll is a good thing, but the coaching that is centered around that, the whole team gets stagnant. What we need is some kind of fierce change that doesn't cost a lot. An agent of chaos.
Ladies and gentlemen, Russell Westbrook has entered the chat. Can't shoot, poor ability to space the floor or adjust to the game plan, disinterested on defense and THEN!: A wild sequence where he grabs the rebound out of TJD's hands, sprints down court ignoring Steph, and throws down an ill-advised early shot clock thunder dunk against two defending centers, the ball richochets off the back of the rim, goes up fourteen feet, and lands back in the basket. Westbrook is out of bounds from the momentum of his attack and is arguing for the and-one while the defense plays 4 on 5 and we get scored on BUT once they score, the outlet comes to Russ, who adjusts his face mask, fakes a pass to no one but it slips out of his hands and goes into the fourth row.
Oh, I am in no way saying he's a good NBA player. I'm saying the entertainment factor! I'm saying that the sheer feeling of delighted terror for fans when he has the ball would be such a blast of fresh air. Shake the joint up, Russ!
I suspect that at this point Taran Armstrong is a better backup PG than Russ. Taran actually shot OK for Santa Cruz and Russ hasn't been good since the 20-21 season.
[Edit: and, in any event, Taran looks like John Stockton's taller, younger brother. Even seems to use the same barber and it that doesn't predict future greatness I don't know what does]
Agreed. The first thing I look for when the season starts is to see what is going on with Warrior hair, on head and on chin. Nothing says "locked in" like a player who has stood close to a blade recently. I haven't bothered to correlate it with box-score stats or anything. That's science, and this is all gut. My optimism for 2025-26 will skyrocket if Steph reemerges from hibernation trimmed, clipped and sharp.
I disagree. Russ is the most bimodal guy: great highlights and horrifying lowlights. ANd he played better off of Jokic than he has in years, because Jokic supercharges everyone. Russ learned that if you cut, that's a whole thing.
But overall I watched him in the playoffs and I thought he was clearly, clearly a net negative. I wouldn't trust him in the last five minutes of any game.
It's not the boneheaded plays that bother me so much as the inability to shoot. Making 32% of his 3s last season was actually well above his career rate at age 36 it wouldn't be reasonable to assume that represents a real improvement as opposed to normal variation. I'm not as down on Russ as a lot of fans, he has had a great career, but I don't think that players that rely on freak athleticism age as well as shooters.
I am in a sober analysis, one of those who is quite down on Russ. I think that those negatives that you and I and many others have always noticed cost too much for the Russ Experience to be worth it. Can't shoot, loses the plot on defense, some terrible decision making, a great deal of trouble adapting to a new game plan. Not a real suggestion by me and I doubt the Warriors have any interest .
I would love if someone came up with an idea for an edgy minimal signing that's exciting and under-considered -- that is *not* a retread of an NBA marginal guy. Tell me some hot prospect in an international league, or an undrafted college guy or some walk-on who can 720 dunk. I'll watch the tape!
He's young, tall, not a total liability on defense, and you have to guard him on the perimeter. Bringing him back on a vet minimum might prove intelligent.
I got nothing. Yabusele last year was such an obvious NBA player.
I thought JT Thor looked like an NBA guy in the Olympics too for South Sudan, but he’s had his chances.
I was thinking maybe Bol Bol 5-6 years in had figured things out enough to be a unique rotation guy but it seems like the hoops IQ and motor just aren’t there.
Jock Landale is an international stud and if we strike out on Horford he’d be a decent plan C or D.
Landale is an interesting case. He was supposed to make $8 mil/year over the next two seasons, but his salary is non-guaranteed. Because Houston now have three big men in their roster after getting Capela, they decided to waive him to save money.
Right? Why not Serbia or Italy or Moldova or Germany or -- OK, not Moldova.
And I saw a Real Madrid soccer game in person once. It was so intense, against a regional rival. The other fans came in on buses and the whole match there was pure hostility between the fans and afterward a lot of rock throwing at the buses. I was caught in the middle and sprinted out of there. This story provided lest we overly romanticize some of this stuff.
Yeah, I'd never go to a soccer game in Europe. Those people are fricking crazy.
I was in Malaga the night the Spanish men's soccer team clinched a berth in Olympics last year (they almost didn't make it in ... they had to win the last qualifier, and did). There was a line of cars driving around the town honking their horns until 5 in the morning!
Yeah, if you ever catch yourself thinking that a US sporting event is really just a fried-food festival, or that the kiss-cams and t-shirt guns should be replaced with a more serious focus on the game, then go to a soccer match in the UK. Or try to get some sleep in Milan after someone beats Juventus.... somewhere. My adopted country does sports well. Happy 4th.
He was looking good! But doubt he makes the roster. Maybe a two way, if he’s healthy and back to form, since QP is in the actual roster… but I think he’s destined for G League for a while
If he can stay healthy, I could see him earning first a two-way, and then the 14th or 15 roster spot. In fact, this would make me very happy assuming that he has not regressed from last SL season's small sample size.
The downside of social media and finding out news in pretty much real time is there's a bunch of useless updates. "X PLAYER IS ON THE VERGE OF SIGNING WITH X TEAM"
James Wiseman is a free agent. Perhaps a minimum deal to reunite with the former draft pick and this time around there will be less expectations and he'll be more amenable to the Warriors coaching.
He seems like a nice young man. He had a couple of flashes. He had potential. But he isn't a positive NBA player. He wouldn't really be an upgrade on Post or TJD.
He'd be a significant downgrade on either tbh, and neither Post nor TJD has even established themselves as a guy who definitely won't be in Europe three years from now.
I think a team who is trying to lose given the loaded 2026 draft should look to add Wiseman next season, the Warriors are not that team.
I think it's very unlikely that he has enough mobility to be effective.
How many centers come back from an Achilles? I can't think of any (Zach Collins? can't remember if his big injury was an Achilles).
Even if he does get back to something like he was, I would expect it to take much longer than a year. He tore it on Oct. 23, 2024. Very much doubt he'll be ready to play any time soon.
And Taiwan. And Golden State. Although he wasn't close to what he used to be, he probably could still have been a role player in the NBA. But he was still Boogie Cousins, and no NBA team wanted to take that on.
The Warriors have always had a balanced stable of bigs. Typically: one stretcher (Speights, West, Saric, Post), one tough, high hoops IQ screener/rebounder/banger (Bogut, Zaza, Loon), one athletic, shotblocking dunker (Ezeli, McGee, TJD), one Draymond (Draymond). They almost never duplicate those roles.
What they need now is a Bogut/Zaza/Loon replacement, not a worse version of TJD (unless TJD gets shipped off).
Post will play 2 of those roles stretch and defense/ screenroles - bulking up and practicing. Motivated. May take a couple years but hope not. We may get center and trade by deadline
Wiseman is simply not an NBA rotational player. I don't get off on disparaging him, but at a certain point you have enough NBA career to evaluate a guy. I'm also low on Bronny, if anyone's asking.
JW at this point in his career should be a better vertical spacer and 3pt threat than TJD. He is also familiar with the system. Unfortunately, his D probably isn’t close to TJD’s as bad as TJD’s is, and probably doesn’t have TJD’s roll game either.
I wouldn’t mind him on a 2 way or non guaranteed 14th or 15thf roster spot
Right, what is going on here. Wiseman is horrible lol.
The Pistons had Wiseman after the Warriors got rid of him and were the dregs of the league, and then they got rid of Wiseman and became a competitive 6 seed. At some point we gotta stop pretending that all of this "before and after Wiseman" team success is a complete coincidence.
All these Wiseman references are giving me flashbacks to the many long comments I wrote screaming into oblivion about his pick and roll defense and constantly late help defense.
That was a dark time, and I would not like for it to return.
He is 7ft tall and pre-injury was very athletic. He was also bad at basketball. But he just turned 24 and some G-league team will probably sign him so why not the Santa Cruz Warriors? The only argument I can make is that he would take playing time from Coleman Hawkins but Hawkins has had recent injury issues of his own so wont be playing 30 minutes a game anyway.
Don’t know if belilaugh mentioned but Jules Bernard has been out of college since 2022 (played at UCLA). Basically another Johnny Juzang (his teammate) without his shot making ability. Surprised he’s still hanging around pro basketball here tbh
I'm not going to be able to see the games (in Bilbao, turning into a puddle of sweat at the moment).
I'm hoping for thorough reportage of Taran 'Wanderer' Armstrong and Two-Way Toohey's summer league performances in these hallowed pages.
> Two-Way Toohey
Awesome. I think that’s pretty much instant canon, unless he ends up sucking on one or the other (or both lol)
Taking in a Lot of assumptions, here is my list of +/- for this season in terms of: who improves the most at one end and who declines the most at the other.
Post*+++
Podziemski++
Jackson-Davis++
Hield++
Moody+
Spencer*+
Santos*+
Butler III+
Kuminga*+
Curry-
Payton II*--
Draymond--
How close or far off the mark am I?
I have high hopes that if JK is still with us, he'll have the contract negotiation baggage behind him, and will improve more than a little.
I certainly hope you're wrong about Curry and Green, or the Warriors are going to be in trouble. A little decline is natural. But depending on how one interprets those -, this does not look hopeful to me.
Like you, I'd love for the young guys to step up. We'll see if your predictions hold. I get the impression that TJD may have a touch of Eric Pachall in him; hope that's wrong.
I'm curious why you see Hield improving so much. Are you just saying he had a bad year this past year and will regress to the mean in a helpful way?
I hope Moody and JK (if he stays) can improve more than a little. They're still quite young, so they could make a leap.
I'm not convinced GPII will even be on the team; ditto for Pat Spencer.
I kinda see the +/- based on each players standard from the previous year, so even though I think Curry will slip by his own standards, he will still be the best player on the team.
I think Hield, after a year of adjustments with the team/system, and buddying up with his new favourite Butler buddy (😂), he will be a Lot more consistent and hence improve ++
Will Pat even be on the team next year?
Hence my Lot of assumptions and also should have said * = FA
Didn’t see this posted. Nice summary of free agency from Scooter Magruder.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DLqtQF9sDoc/?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
Hey that's my name. How many Scooter Magruders can there be in the world?
JK was the black cloud over the season and continues to be the black cloud over the off-season.
I don't really have any problem with JK having an over-inflated view of his game. That's not different than many young players. Beli has pointed out more than once that Aaron Gordon started out thinking he should be the guy, and evolved (faster than JK, admittedly).
JK wobbled a bit during the season (particularly at the beginning, when he was trying to be Kobe). But, he had a couple of OK stretches (just before the injury and during the playoffs), so I'm not ready to make that strong a characterization of his game.
To me, the real test is what he does AFTER this contract is signed. If he comes back to the Dubs, forgets about the contract negotiation bitterness (there is bound to be some), and plays the game the Dubs need from him, then great. If he hangs his head or acts out, a la Poole when he went to Washington, then I will be disappointed.
What did Kuminga do over the season that was so egregious? Played well, got hurt, got benched post-JB trade. Then showed some cojones in the playoffs with Curry out while most of the rest wilted?
My guess is that Kuminga's agent overvalues Kuminga's talent and is asking for more money than other teams are asking for, hence the delay in the free agency moves for the Warriors.
They think he’s worthy of a team building their squad around, not having to fit in around Steph. Which is a thing to think.
The agent is hurting JK's career, and JK is apparently buying it. Dislike.
Black clouds sometimes bring rain, and rain usually brings abundance...
And before that it was Klay and before that Poole. Do they do a psych eval? 😂 Maybe we should. 😉
Yep....decision-makers should be 1st up....
I see Chance McMillian is listed in the article. He just had surgery for a stress fracture in his left ankle and will miss summer league.
I appreciate all updates! (The article did already say that though.)
Yeah just saw that on re-read, sorry.
The longer it takes for an official agreement from Al Horford the more I think Denver is about to swoop in and steal him from us
So we CAN sign Horford before the Kuminga thing resolves? I see conflicting reports on that.
IIUC, I think signing Horford first puts a hard cap on how we can offer or match. I it would be ~$27M or something. That would let some team make an offer (such as $28M) that GSW wouldn’t be able to match. The more there appears to be no big FA market JFK, the moor of a moot point that becomes, but would also limit how much they could do a sign-and-trade.
JFK or JK? Thanks. Am I understanding - the Warriors MAY be waiting to sign Horford until they have clarity on JK situation? Iow Horford is not necessarily the one holding things up and we don’t get to know until everything is signed.
JFK for Jonathan Fucking Kuminga.
Indeed. But that can be expressed in a few ways. Some would say, "Jonathan F'ing Kuminga! 👍" Some would sigh and muse, "Jonathan F'ing Kuminga? 🤷🏻♂️" And a few would mutter "Jonathan F'ing Kuminga. 🙄"
Thank you
God I really hope Sabalenka loses. Thatd be a great consolation prize as we await resolution of the JK sweepstakes
I'd like to provoke a fight without taking a side, or at least not yet.
If you wish to participate, the prompt is: "Steve Kerr is not good at developing young players. He is a great coach of established players and has made vital contributions to NBA thinking about pace and space, about positionless basketball, about switching defenses, and leveraged Steph's abilities into a uniquely potent offense. And he helped Steph Klay Draymond Barnes all become better -- but they would have been damned good, anyway. The problem is that he just doesn't develop young guys who need more help."
Feel free to take a side.
Funny how no one dares mention MJAX AS SUPERB IN DEVELOPING YOUNG, TALENTED PLAYERS READY TO TAKE ON A 'SHIP RUN. To his great credit, KERR has always owned up to that. Nuff said.
Simple as this: we somehow turned 3 late 50's second rounders into rotation players. If that's not being good at developing young players I don't know what is.
I’ll assume you mean “Golden State with Steve Kerr is not good at developing young players” since it isn’t the job of the head coach to do that.
If that’s the case, see @Mycroft’s excellent post below.
Dubs young guys have not been world beaters even after they left the supposed shackles of Kerr-dom. Exhibits: J Poole, J Bell, P McCaw, D Jones, J Wiseman. OTOH, 'Kerr' players such as T Jerome have had success elsewhere after they played here. It's undeniable that OPJ, SDot even all stars DWest and Andre played their best ball under Kerr. Kerr got the best stretch out of players who were league laughing stocks such as Javale and OPJ. Steve is extremely stubborn and immature(basketball wise) players don't particularly do well under him, but think he's been the best amplifier of players in the league at least the last decade. I for one would like the Dubs to take a flyer on guys like Giddey(if available) or even Ben Simmons. I think Steve will get the best out of them.
Edit: Mycroft has made much better case below, my bad.
DLO was talented. POOLE was talented. WISEMAN was talented. JEROME was talented. Tough to break in on a 'Ship team; tougher to get developmental time and meet great expectations fast. Nuff said.
I think you're looking at some of this through homer glasses. What you say about the vets is entirely deniable. OPJ played his best ball in WASH before the injuries started. Livingston played about the same here as he had throughout his career after his catastrophic injury, neither better nor worse. We got DWest at the tail end of his career; he had far and away his best seasons in New Orleans, where he was a 2x All Star. He was pretty good in Indy too. Great as he was here, Andre was at his peak in Philly, where he made an All Star team.
That's not to take anything away from Kerr or the Dubs' organization; in fact, it's a credit to the FO that they were able to get players of that caliber who fit in so well here and to Kerr that he knew how to use them to advantage.
OPJ wasn’t a laughingstock, he was just consistently injured. He’d turned into a phenomenal player before injuries derailed his career
And he promptly went back to being injured when he signed with the Raptors.
That sounds more like praise that would be better given to Celebrini than Kerr 🤷🏼♂️
Here’s my super-well-thought-out take: I can’t wait for Kuminga to be in another team’s jersey.
I don't agree with the prompt at all. Points:
1. Kerr has developed multiple young players very successfully, including Kevon Looney, Brandon Podzemski, Quentin Post. And for me, Moses Moody (Some guys take longer than a year or two, and I have previously discussed extensively Moody's specific problems that cost him playing time - problems that Kerr has repeatedly, and publicly discussed). Gary Payton was not as young, but barely could play anywhere else. Gui Santos looks pretty damn good. Jordan Poole developed pretty well at GS I think. And Javale McGee went from Shaqtin' a Fool's all-time list to a long career, thanks in large part to Kerr. Kerr even developed a former lacrosse player into a third string point guard.
2. I'm not convinced Draymond would have been "good anyway" because I'm not sure most coaches would have seen the potential, or been willing to change the paradigm so he could play.
3. I feel lilke this narrative is unfairly skewed by GS horrible draft decision to take James Wiseman (who no one else has been able to develop) and the Kuminga-industrial complex's media machine. Given all of the successful development listed above, I would argue that most of the time when people say Kerr isn't good at developing "young players" they mean Kerr is not good at developing Jonathan Kuminga. This is a player that a) doesn't fit Kerr's system at all, b) by his own statement has no interest in fitting Kerr's system, because c) he wants to be a lead guy on a team that already has one of the best lead guys that ever lived. He has not been interested in or willing to pursue Kerr's requested development goals in summers. Kerr wanted ball-handling and all JK's videos were post moves. So I don't see him as Kerr's "failure. I see him as a square peg with a lot of ego. To "develop" JK on JK's terms would be to change systems and put Steph out to pasture. I'd draw that line in the sand too.
4. Other than that, GS has been a high end winning team for a bunch of years. Low draft picks don't "develop" most of the time for any coach on any team. Expecting Steve Kerr to develop:
Patrick Baldwin
Ryan Rollins
Nico Mannion
Justinian Jessup
Alen Smailagic!!!!!!
Jacob Evans
Eric Paschall
Jordan Bell
into NBA rotation players is putting a pretty high bar on what you would think is good young player development.
5. This is professional basketball at the highest level. If you need "more help" you are responsible for finding it yourself. The NBA is, and always has been, a league for self-starters.
As others have said, this is excellent. Thank you for taking the time.
I would add that Bob Myers (or possibly Joe Lacob) did Kerr no favors by drafting so many super young guys in rapid succession.
In 2020, they took a swing at Wiseman (19); horrible pick, but it was a pandemic year, so they were working with less info than usual. But they knew he was a player who would take a lot of minutes and years to develop. They also took Nico Mannion (19) in the 2nd round. Justinian Jessup never made it to the big team.
In 2021, they grabbed Kuminga (18) and Moody (19). More project players who would need minutes and years to develop -- this, at a time when Steph (33) and Dray (31) were still in their prime.
In 2022, they got PBJ (19), Rollins (19), and Santos (20). Even more project players, at a time when the Ws were trying to defend a championship and should have been in 'win now' mode.
I can only imagine that Bob Myers or others must have projected Steph, Klay, and Dray to decline rapidly. They were loading up on very young talent and expecting to play those young guys a lot of minutes as the core trio waned and rode into the sunset together.
But the 2020 championship should have signaled that the front office needed to change strategies and prioritize winning now. Somehow, they didn't get the memo. But I don't blame Kerr for that.
"Kuminga-industrial complex" is epic
A++++++ work, Mycroft. Thank you.
In my view the main “sides” in this discussion are: thoughtful and nuanced takes like the one you just articulated on one side, and hot takery, oversimplification, straw men, begging the question, and/or hidden agendas on the other.
Which “side” are you on, Brother Asher?
I was honestly just interested in the debate. It happens a lot sub rosa so I thought I'd position it as an item for a discussion. I am reading and listening. Don't know.
A thing that interests me a great deal is the challenge of measuring human perceptions and behaviors. How do we know scientifically if someone is let's say more or less depressed? How do we know if a teacher or a coach is the variable in success? It seems very hard to prove anything either way, there being many other variables. Was Michael Jordan coached well by Phil Jackson? Well, probably. So that's why he won championships? Well, I'm not so sure that's a more definitive reason than MJ's leaping ability.
How much did my 11th grade English teacher teach me? How would we know if it lasted? That sort of thing.
Asher is in provocateur mode today, it seems.
I'm sorry if you felt it was in some way provoking in the negative sense. That was not my intent.
I was honestly just interested in the debate. It happens a lot sub rosa so I thought I'd position it as an item for a discussion. I am reading and listening. Don't know.
I was not criticizing or judging, merely observing. 😊
are you suggesting there’s times when he isn’t? :-)
I don't enjoy discussions of my personality. If you don't like my posts, feel free to ignore them.
for someone who i consider to be an incredibly funny guy, you strangely sometimes seem to completely fail to recognise a joke. i even put a smilely face on the end ffs. additionally, on multiple occasions i've told you how much i appreciate your posts and how thankful i am for your participation.
Hmmm, when you put it that way.... 😁
Thank you for this, especially #3 and #5. Well put.
I’d like to hear a coach who *has* been good developing talent when trying to *continue* winning. (I mean Kerr oversaw the flourishing and growth of the greatest young core in history Steph / Klay / Dray / Barnes but unfairly doesn’t get credit for that.)
The last one who I noticed celebrated as the anti-Kerr was Mike Malone for developing Braun. But then he was fired for not developing youth and playing Russ to win now.
So my assumption until proven otherwise is that no one is good at it and everyone complains about their coach all the time and thinks the other coach is better.
Maybe Eric Spoelstra?
This is very true and very interesting.
The core you mentioned definitely thrived and improved under Kerr and you rarely hear that mentioned.
What players need to do to improve is very obvious to every team in the NBA with their huge coaching staffs and knowledge.
The players are professionals and they need to do the work.
They have access to the staff and they can hire people on their own.
The JK Kerr thing is like a ping pong ball inside my head.
I see it as being unfortunate for both of them.
The issue is not Kerr developing him. The issue is the team personnel, the system and the fit. JK has certainly improved a lot since being drafted.
Are there any college coaches who stand out as doing it well? I don't follow college at all but aren't there some coaches at that level known (historically or now) for being good at it?
Im obviously biased but Mick Cronin gets his guys to play NBA level defense.
Offense? Not so much…
I would say the college coaches that actually develop and teach the best are guys you have never heard of. Division 2 and small colleges. Guys that love the game and working with players.
One coaching path is doing it because you love it and working with kids. Another is the desire to move in to the bright lights like big time D1.
Heck, there are quite a few high school coaches when it comes to teaching skills and even X’s and O’s that rank right there and even surpass big name coaches.
Not college, but Kenny Atkinson has a reputation for developing younger players. For that it helps to be coaching a team full of young players with no expectations. Kerr has had a grand total of one year imctjdt situation.
Lute Olson? Tom Izzo?
I think Calipari is not bad at it, particularly with project big guys (a lot of this is I think is because Kenny Payne is generally on his staffs, but Cal is smart enough to keep him). And even past centers, take a for instance look at the progression in college of Adou Thiero.
Jay Wright? Mark Few?
Amusingly, I was going to mention Calipari as a negative example as there’s a widespread idea of a Kentucky Tax … that players on his team were going to be better as pros than they projected as college players since he didn’t get the most out of them. But I’m willing to meet you or others halfway to say this is further proof that it’s hard to judge a coach’s contributions to development.
I was thinking in terms of who develops college players best to play the pro game. In terms of pure college development Greg McDermott (not Doug as I said in my original post) is pretty impressive, and I think Mark Few squeezes pretty much every drop of college potential out of his guys.
OKC's coach has been great, but they weren't defending a CS until two weeks ago. It remains to be seen whether their player development can continue apace now that they're pushing for another one?
If you look at how many picks OKC have had and how many have already washed out, it’s not obvious he’s unlocked the code. I’d want to see a careful study.
I just don’t think we’ve drafted well under the last half of the Myers regime. Thats it. I mean Poole had shown flashes as one of the lead dogs in Washington but no consistency and many of the same issues plaguing him for most of his GS tenure carried over in Washington. I think Moody is the anti Dray in that his physical attributes do not allow him to carve out a consistent role in either the front court or back court. He is way too slow to play the 2 or 3 and way too small to play the 4. JK imo
Is what we thought Wiseman was gonna be: needs consistent minutes to develop but I dont see stardom either. Wiseman is just plain awful at the mental attributes of basketball and that was defn never ever gonna be developed here.
As a Libra, I'm happy to take both sides (now). I'd say it is more that Steve never saw his role as a coach that should focus on developing players - he seems to have approached the job as a 5 or 10 year gig where we planned to maximize the HOF guys he had, and on the side, do what he could to develop young guys. But, other than the year when everyone was hurt, he was clearly trying to squeeze out a few more wins, and I sensed he never felt like it was the right time to focus on development. I also feel like a few of the high profile guys would not have succeeded even under the GOAT player dev coach (maybe Daigneault? Not sure who else is highly regarded) - specifically JW. But, he did get Poole to be a key contributor on a championship team, developed Loon to be a beloved and underrated contributor, and we currently have Podz and Post both playing at a starting level, and Moody is a very solid bench player, so it's not like every young player has ended up looking like Wiseman.
I'd think if he had a young team with no generational players to maximize, he might have done a better job of development or anyway put more focus on that. And maybe some other coach could have threaded that needle better than he did - for example, maybe wasting minutes on the Ty Jeromes and Anthony Lambs of the world didn't help our actual long term guys develop. So, I can see the opinion that he didn't do the best job of development, but I also don't think he has been totally incapable of developing the young guys.
Finally, maybe the question is more, did Steve hire the right guys to develop the kids? Isn't this more the asst coach's task rather than the head coach? That ultimately falls on him too, but may be more about the staff than Steve's own coaching.
You might say Ty Jerome was in fact a great success story as was divencenzo but our core salaries made them un retainable. No one has left to great success. Not wiseman or Poole or pbj.
It has to do with the teams "win now" mentality in the Kerr era. That doesn't always fit with development of young guys. The mistake was drafting young guys in the first place instead of retaining/acquiring established players. Jmho.
Yep. Win now and help the core was definitely not drafting 3 teenagers. It was a head scratcher and still is.
For much of the last decade they’ve been well into the luxury tax. How do you propose they could have consistently retained or acquired established players worth retaining or acquiring for going on a decade now, with increasingly little room to operate from a financial and structural standpoint?
I mean, I don’t expect you specifically or this site collectively to have an answer that would hold up to expert scrutiny. But it’s not like you say what you said and somewhere Bob Myers goes, “oh shit, why didn’t I think of that?”
Actually, I can!!!
With the 2nd pick (or trading down), the Warriors could have selected Tyrese Halliburton/Deni Advidja who were my two faves in that draft and Dubnation selected them in our tournament.
Or hey, with the 7th and 14th pick of the 2021 NBA draft, they could have selected Franz Wagner at 7th like I and most of DubnationHQ were advocating for and Sengun at 14 (which I was pushing for but DubnationHQ was happy with Moody).
If I had drafted instead of Myers, our team would have Tyrese Halliburton/Franz Wagner/Alperun Sengun on our team. We’d be much better than we are right now with Wiseman/Kuminga/Moody.
Alright, so did you get rid of both Klay before last year and Draymond, and probably one or two of those three you drafted? And if you got rid of Draymond, who on that team is actually playing competent defense?
We don’t have to get into anything else. You asked “ How do you propose they could have consistently retained or acquired established players worth retaining or acquiring for going on a decade now, with increasingly little room to operate from a financial and structural standpoint?”
I gave you three documented opportunities in the draft that I/DubnationHQ would have drafted better than Bob Myers. That difference would have netted us two time All Star Tyrese Halliburton, 1 time All Star Sengun, and NBA all rookie 1st team Franz Wagner.
So tell me, is having Halburton/Sengun/Wagner superior to having Wiseman/Kuminga/Moody? Would that have been a better acquisition of talent?
Haliburton and Avdija weren't on anybody's list as a top 5 pick in that draft, and they ended up going 12th and 9th, respectively. Criticizing the Dubs for not selecting either with the #2 goes against the universal view at the time. Nobody was going to make that pick.
Dont tell me nobody was going to make that pick when I just told you I recommended that pick.
DubnationHQ literally ran a tournament that ended with recommending that pick.
Nobody mocked Hanson Yang that early in this draft either. But the Grizzlies said fuck that and drafted him regardless.
OK, let me reword that. No NBA front office was going to take Haliburton with a top 5 pick in that draft.
I pleaded to draft Hali at 2.
Indeed, he was the choice here at DNHQ (by one vote over Wiseman, as I recall) but not in the NBA. But hey, Jokic was famously the 41st pick in 2014. Everybody passed on him at least once.
Yes! That’s warriors basketball
Hear me out. One thing that has happened through the dynasty years is that the same old thing has gotten old, and predictable, and stale. Sure, a Steph-Draymond pick and roll is a good thing, but the coaching that is centered around that, the whole team gets stagnant. What we need is some kind of fierce change that doesn't cost a lot. An agent of chaos.
Ladies and gentlemen, Russell Westbrook has entered the chat. Can't shoot, poor ability to space the floor or adjust to the game plan, disinterested on defense and THEN!: A wild sequence where he grabs the rebound out of TJD's hands, sprints down court ignoring Steph, and throws down an ill-advised early shot clock thunder dunk against two defending centers, the ball richochets off the back of the rim, goes up fourteen feet, and lands back in the basket. Westbrook is out of bounds from the momentum of his attack and is arguing for the and-one while the defense plays 4 on 5 and we get scored on BUT once they score, the outlet comes to Russ, who adjusts his face mask, fakes a pass to no one but it slips out of his hands and goes into the fourth row.
The raw ENERGY!!! We need this!!
The “wild sequences” and “raw ENERGY” are fool’s gold.
Also: he turns 37 this year.
Oh, I am in no way saying he's a good NBA player. I'm saying the entertainment factor! I'm saying that the sheer feeling of delighted terror for fans when he has the ball would be such a blast of fresh air. Shake the joint up, Russ!
I suspect that at this point Taran Armstrong is a better backup PG than Russ. Taran actually shot OK for Santa Cruz and Russ hasn't been good since the 20-21 season.
[Edit: and, in any event, Taran looks like John Stockton's taller, younger brother. Even seems to use the same barber and it that doesn't predict future greatness I don't know what does]
Agreed. The first thing I look for when the season starts is to see what is going on with Warrior hair, on head and on chin. Nothing says "locked in" like a player who has stood close to a blade recently. I haven't bothered to correlate it with box-score stats or anything. That's science, and this is all gut. My optimism for 2025-26 will skyrocket if Steph reemerges from hibernation trimmed, clipped and sharp.
Russ was more than solid for the Nuggets this season imo. For every bonehead play he made in the playoffs he had a truly game winning one
I disagree. Russ is the most bimodal guy: great highlights and horrifying lowlights. ANd he played better off of Jokic than he has in years, because Jokic supercharges everyone. Russ learned that if you cut, that's a whole thing.
But overall I watched him in the playoffs and I thought he was clearly, clearly a net negative. I wouldn't trust him in the last five minutes of any game.
It's not the boneheaded plays that bother me so much as the inability to shoot. Making 32% of his 3s last season was actually well above his career rate at age 36 it wouldn't be reasonable to assume that represents a real improvement as opposed to normal variation. I'm not as down on Russ as a lot of fans, he has had a great career, but I don't think that players that rely on freak athleticism age as well as shooters.
I am in a sober analysis, one of those who is quite down on Russ. I think that those negatives that you and I and many others have always noticed cost too much for the Russ Experience to be worth it. Can't shoot, loses the plot on defense, some terrible decision making, a great deal of trouble adapting to a new game plan. Not a real suggestion by me and I doubt the Warriors have any interest .
It definitely would not be a boring season with Westbrook on the roster. The turnovers alone would give Kerr a stroke
Sports is an entertainment business. Let's get entertained!
I would love if someone came up with an idea for an edgy minimal signing that's exciting and under-considered -- that is *not* a retread of an NBA marginal guy. Tell me some hot prospect in an international league, or an undrafted college guy or some walk-on who can 720 dunk. I'll watch the tape!
Connor Williams from St. John Fisher U. GS needs size.
Bruno Caboclo
PBJ: https://craftednba.com/players/comparison?player1=gui-santos&player2=patrick-baldwin-jr.
He's young, tall, not a total liability on defense, and you have to guard him on the perimeter. Bringing him back on a vet minimum might prove intelligent.
Uh, didn't we try this? I do believe I was saying let's not do the retread idea. You know?
I got nothing. Yabusele last year was such an obvious NBA player.
I thought JT Thor looked like an NBA guy in the Olympics too for South Sudan, but he’s had his chances.
I was thinking maybe Bol Bol 5-6 years in had figured things out enough to be a unique rotation guy but it seems like the hoops IQ and motor just aren’t there.
Jock Landale is an international stud and if we strike out on Horford he’d be a decent plan C or D.
Landale is an interesting case. He was supposed to make $8 mil/year over the next two seasons, but his salary is non-guaranteed. Because Houston now have three big men in their roster after getting Capela, they decided to waive him to save money.
I hope the Warriors get him for a vet min.
Yeah, "I got nothing" is on my family crest.
Taran Armstrong or Coleman Hawkins
Remember when the Kings signed the Euroleague MVP or something 2 years ago and thought they found something but he turned out to be trash?
Tbf tough to judge somebody based off of their performance on the Kings
True, but the fact that he couldn’t stick in the NBA afterwards says something
And, we have our own example (Alen Smailagic).
I wonder about this. We need a center.
there must be at least a few decent centers in Turkey or the former Yugoslav republics.
And, chances are, those guys are well-coached and team players and can pass. Just at a lower skill level for shooting and possibly defense.
Maybe they all get Hoovered up by the European leagues.
Which fricking reminds me ... I want to catch a Real Madrid bball game sometime.
Right? Why not Serbia or Italy or Moldova or Germany or -- OK, not Moldova.
And I saw a Real Madrid soccer game in person once. It was so intense, against a regional rival. The other fans came in on buses and the whole match there was pure hostility between the fans and afterward a lot of rock throwing at the buses. I was caught in the middle and sprinted out of there. This story provided lest we overly romanticize some of this stuff.
Yeah, I'd never go to a soccer game in Europe. Those people are fricking crazy.
I was in Malaga the night the Spanish men's soccer team clinched a berth in Olympics last year (they almost didn't make it in ... they had to win the last qualifier, and did). There was a line of cars driving around the town honking their horns until 5 in the morning!
Yeah, if you ever catch yourself thinking that a US sporting event is really just a fried-food festival, or that the kiss-cams and t-shirt guns should be replaced with a more serious focus on the game, then go to a soccer match in the UK. Or try to get some sleep in Milan after someone beats Juventus.... somewhere. My adopted country does sports well. Happy 4th.
Idk if yall remember but marques bolden was looking great last summer league until he got hurt, i think he makes the roster this year
He was looking good! But doubt he makes the roster. Maybe a two way, if he’s healthy and back to form, since QP is in the actual roster… but I think he’s destined for G League for a while
If he can stay healthy, I could see him earning first a two-way, and then the 14th or 15 roster spot. In fact, this would make me very happy assuming that he has not regressed from last SL season's small sample size.
The downside of social media and finding out news in pretty much real time is there's a bunch of useless updates. "X PLAYER IS ON THE VERGE OF SIGNING WITH X TEAM"
Let me know when there's an actual agreement
James Wiseman is a free agent. Perhaps a minimum deal to reunite with the former draft pick and this time around there will be less expectations and he'll be more amenable to the Warriors coaching.
Please, NO. We already made a mistake the first time.
I’d give him a look as a possible G-League signee.
As posted yesterday when this came up:
James. Wiseman. Isn't. Good.
He seems like a nice young man. He had a couple of flashes. He had potential. But he isn't a positive NBA player. He wouldn't really be an upgrade on Post or TJD.
He'd be a significant downgrade on either tbh, and neither Post nor TJD has even established themselves as a guy who definitely won't be in Europe three years from now.
I think a team who is trying to lose given the loaded 2026 draft should look to add Wiseman next season, the Warriors are not that team.
I think it's very unlikely that he has enough mobility to be effective.
How many centers come back from an Achilles? I can't think of any (Zach Collins? can't remember if his big injury was an Achilles).
Even if he does get back to something like he was, I would expect it to take much longer than a year. He tore it on Oct. 23, 2024. Very much doubt he'll be ready to play any time soon.
Cousins.
Good memory. Technically he came back, but he wasn't even remotely the same player after the Achilles.
Before the injury, he'd dribble the ball coast to coast and dunk on people.
Afterward, he was playing in Mongolia and Puerto Rico.
And Taiwan. And Golden State. Although he wasn't close to what he used to be, he probably could still have been a role player in the NBA. But he was still Boogie Cousins, and no NBA team wanted to take that on.
Why would Wiseman ever get minutes over TJD?
The Warriors have always had a balanced stable of bigs. Typically: one stretcher (Speights, West, Saric, Post), one tough, high hoops IQ screener/rebounder/banger (Bogut, Zaza, Loon), one athletic, shotblocking dunker (Ezeli, McGee, TJD), one Draymond (Draymond). They almost never duplicate those roles.
What they need now is a Bogut/Zaza/Loon replacement, not a worse version of TJD (unless TJD gets shipped off).
Post will play 2 of those roles stretch and defense/ screenroles - bulking up and practicing. Motivated. May take a couple years but hope not. We may get center and trade by deadline
Wiseman is simply not an NBA rotational player. I don't get off on disparaging him, but at a certain point you have enough NBA career to evaluate a guy. I'm also low on Bronny, if anyone's asking.
JW at this point in his career should be a better vertical spacer and 3pt threat than TJD. He is also familiar with the system. Unfortunately, his D probably isn’t close to TJD’s as bad as TJD’s is, and probably doesn’t have TJD’s roll game either.
I wouldn’t mind him on a 2 way or non guaranteed 14th or 15thf roster spot
I would mind him. He’s bad at basketball and that’s unlikely to change anytime soon.
Right, what is going on here. Wiseman is horrible lol.
The Pistons had Wiseman after the Warriors got rid of him and were the dregs of the league, and then they got rid of Wiseman and became a competitive 6 seed. At some point we gotta stop pretending that all of this "before and after Wiseman" team success is a complete coincidence.
All these Wiseman references are giving me flashbacks to the many long comments I wrote screaming into oblivion about his pick and roll defense and constantly late help defense.
That was a dark time, and I would not like for it to return.
He is 7ft tall and pre-injury was very athletic. He was also bad at basketball. But he just turned 24 and some G-league team will probably sign him so why not the Santa Cruz Warriors? The only argument I can make is that he would take playing time from Coleman Hawkins but Hawkins has had recent injury issues of his own so wont be playing 30 minutes a game anyway.
A least Coleman Hawkins is great at tenor sax. Oh wait a minute....