In my mind, there's nothing Okongwu does (except maybe dunking) that's at the same level of Halliburton's skill as a passer. Halliburton can take some of the ball-handling responsibility off of Steph when they're on the floor together, and when Steph sits, TH can help raise everyone else's game. He's a slightly shorter Livingston who can actually shoot from deep and passes like Larry Bird (maybe not yet like Bird at his peak, but they're stylistically similar). That's a massive upgrade over Bowman or Lee (and Poole, though I think of him as a 2), and would give the Warriors a strength at PG when Steph's not playing. And that's before getting into his defense, maturity, work ethic, and intelligence.
Okongwu is impressively athletic, but is he playing over Dray or Chriss? No. He may be a better post player than Paschall, but he can't shoot anywhere near as well, which is my main problem. So we're talking about a top-5 pick to upgrade Looney. BFD. He dominated smaller college guys down low, but without much of a jump shot outside of 8-10 feet (and even that's shaky, to say nothing of 3-pointers), he's going to get eaten alive by good NBA bigs. I find that PER stat misleading because all those four guys are or were bigger than he is, and while Zeller didn't do much, KAT, Ayton, and AD are all amazingly better shooters. Watching those videos, you see teams giving Okongwu 5+ feet of space if he's got the ball more than 8 feet away from the basket, and even when he does shoot he's nervous about it because he's clearly being put on the spot. NBA players won't be merciful enough to just let him miss on his own, they're going to terrorize him whenever he tries. And for the small part of the court within which he's good and comfortable, he's undersized. If the Warriors roll the dice with an athletic big man, at least go with Wiseman.
Bottom line, how does each guy help Steph and Klay? I don't think Okongwu's going to be so dominant near the basket that he draws defenders away from them. And how will he help in the pick and roll if he doesn't pass well or hit jump shots? Halliburton, on the other hand, will have to be guarded closely for his passing if nothing else, taking pressure off of Steph and Klay, and he's a good enough shooter to make teams pay for giving him space. He may never be a playmaking star due to limited athleticism, but he'll make people around him better, now and in the future, which is especially important as the Warriors continue to develop young players over the next decade.
The out-dated game of a 90's big in a body 80% the size, vs. a smart guard who fits with the culture and can facilitate others' success? Not even close.
Okongwu's impact on D as a switchable big with rim protection is the definition of a modern big. Very few of those in the league, and when you include elite pick and roll finishing it's basically just Anthony Davis. He'll probably be a good jump shooter within a couple years.
Defensively modern, I'll grant you. Offensively, I disagree.
"He'll probably be a good jump shooter within a couple years."
On what are you basing this assumption? Personally, I see nothing in the videos above to suggest that he'll ever get better at jump shots. His form looks hesitant, awkward, and inconsistent (not that Haliburton's looks good; it needs work, too, but at least he's had success with it). But even if he does become a better shooter in a couple years, that means that at the beginning of his career, his offensive value will be limited to low-post play. Besides some occasional defense, what does he give the Warriors now that's going to meaningfully contribute to a championship in the next 2-3 seasons? What does he give them that Chriss doesn't? If Okongwu develops, I think he has a better chance of doing it on a different team that can live with his learning curve. Haliburton or Vassell seem to me much better immediate contributors. Again, this team is still about Steph, Klay, and Draymond--who is going to make their lives easier?
I think a 19 year old that shoots 72% from the FT line, and has great touch around the rim will probably be a good shooter.
How does he help Steph, Klay and Dray? By being an elite defensive big man, that doesn't need to be taken off the court when other teams go small. And by being an elite finisher around the hoop. You're acting like post ups are still a thing. He's not just a dunker. He's got great hands and is someone who if you can get him the ball within 6 feet of the hoop he can use his athleticism, quickness, touch and angles to get it in. He's not just a dunker. That's rare, and there's certainly room for a guy like that within the space of the Warriors offense and their passing ability.
I do think he's somewhat redundant with Chriss, but he's a much better prospect. Chriss could be a solid starter. Okongwu could be a top 5 big man in the league.
Vassell is my number 1 guy, probably Killian Hayes #2. Then Okongwu, Halliburton and Okoro are grouped pretty close, but probably in that order. I like Halli too, I just don't agree with the way you're discounting Okongwu. He's a stud.
Well, I do still think that what Haliburton brings is more of what the team needs, but perhaps I'm underestimating the value of what Okongwu can do near the basket. And skeptical though I may be, I don't want to sound like I'm actively rooting against him. If he's the Warriors' pick, I'll have all the hope in the world that you're right and I'm wrong.
I like Halliburton. I tend to buy the reports that the Warriors FO likes him too, along with Vassell (and the reports they're not looking at big men). It's still early, it could all be just rumors floated, but if I had to bet those would be my top two guesses.
I'm gonna have to go with Haliburton because I think his shooting/defense will translate to the next level and that Okongwu will mirror the production we get from Chriss. We need a big who can shoot, not another undersized mobile big man who rim runs.
Nope, Isaiah Stewart from Washington wasn't in the Top 11 of any analyst, so he didn't make the field. I have him ranked #25 on the Average Expert Draft Rankings. Can't imagine him as a Top 5 but maybe someone could take a flyer in late lottery?
Haliburton since i think Okongwu duplicates what we have with undersized centers in Chris, Dray, and Looney. If they were going to draft a center I'd rather they take Wiseman to give us more size.
I gotta go with Haliburton. Seems like he could hit the ground running with this team due to his high BB IQ and quality team defense. I really like the description of his attitude and his willingness to take advice and improve his game. With guys like Steph, Klay, and Dray around (not to mention Kerr), he could learn enough from them to take Warrior BB into the next decade as the current group of stars begin to fade.
I like Okongwu but I'm not sure of the value of a big who can't shoot the 3 in today's NBA.
Ideally, they'd trade the #1 pick down and still be able to get both of these guys :)
Seems to me like Haliburton has a slightly lower floor -- if nothing were to change I think it's unlikely Okongwu would be anything less than a rotation player with his athleticism and current skill level, while Tyrese at his current weight could end up being a bit of a liability on both ends (worst case scenario of course).
Ceiling-wise I think they're both pretty high -- Okongwu would need to add an outside shot and/or some play making and/or some shot creation to his game, while Haliburton would need his shot to translate and to add 20-30 pounds. I think that's what it comes down to for me, can Haliburton put on the weight? Some of those really skinny guys have a lot of trouble bulking up, but if Haliburton could get his body looking a little more like Iguodala's and a little less like Livingston I think he could be a star.
Can he do it? I dunno... you don't see that a lot. I think I'll play it safe and go with Okongwu.
It's stupid that I have a vote, because I don't watch college basketball. I could make a stab based on the write-ups. But I abstain - Dubs should trade down and get two for the price of one.
Just noticed in a micro-SI-Cover-Curse, the last 5 cover pictures in the series have been for the losing player. On track for 6 in a row now, as Haliburton trails both here and on Twitter.
Both of these guys seem like they'd be amazing on the Dubs, and the choice between them is really hard because they're such different types of player but each contributes a whole lot in their area of specialty.
After much back-and-forth, Haliburton has to be my pick, because he provides more of something the Dubs are going to need more of: 3-point, shooting, accuracy. Love his passing, too.
I see Okongwu's shot-blocking as his most appealing skill (and I *love* the vision of the team getting PUMPED over some big rejections), but in terms of guys who are already on the team, I think there's a limit to how much more that adds if you have Draymond, Chriss, and Looney all playing in good health. Meanwhile, there really isn't a point of over-saturation for guys who can knock down an open shot.
Both these youngsters seem like they have the potential for a pretty great NBA career on Dubs, and Vassell, too. So yeah, sure, maybe there's nobody in this draft class who's as obviously NBA-ready as Doncic or Zion, even Ja Morant, but it sure feels nice to be looking at candidates in the single digit category on multiple draft boards and thinking, yeah, we could pick that guy.
Haliburton
Tyrese Haliburton. Okongwu is a great choice no doubt, but Haliburton is the better fit alongside steph, klay, and draymond.
Haliburton!
In my mind, there's nothing Okongwu does (except maybe dunking) that's at the same level of Halliburton's skill as a passer. Halliburton can take some of the ball-handling responsibility off of Steph when they're on the floor together, and when Steph sits, TH can help raise everyone else's game. He's a slightly shorter Livingston who can actually shoot from deep and passes like Larry Bird (maybe not yet like Bird at his peak, but they're stylistically similar). That's a massive upgrade over Bowman or Lee (and Poole, though I think of him as a 2), and would give the Warriors a strength at PG when Steph's not playing. And that's before getting into his defense, maturity, work ethic, and intelligence.
Okongwu is impressively athletic, but is he playing over Dray or Chriss? No. He may be a better post player than Paschall, but he can't shoot anywhere near as well, which is my main problem. So we're talking about a top-5 pick to upgrade Looney. BFD. He dominated smaller college guys down low, but without much of a jump shot outside of 8-10 feet (and even that's shaky, to say nothing of 3-pointers), he's going to get eaten alive by good NBA bigs. I find that PER stat misleading because all those four guys are or were bigger than he is, and while Zeller didn't do much, KAT, Ayton, and AD are all amazingly better shooters. Watching those videos, you see teams giving Okongwu 5+ feet of space if he's got the ball more than 8 feet away from the basket, and even when he does shoot he's nervous about it because he's clearly being put on the spot. NBA players won't be merciful enough to just let him miss on his own, they're going to terrorize him whenever he tries. And for the small part of the court within which he's good and comfortable, he's undersized. If the Warriors roll the dice with an athletic big man, at least go with Wiseman.
Bottom line, how does each guy help Steph and Klay? I don't think Okongwu's going to be so dominant near the basket that he draws defenders away from them. And how will he help in the pick and roll if he doesn't pass well or hit jump shots? Halliburton, on the other hand, will have to be guarded closely for his passing if nothing else, taking pressure off of Steph and Klay, and he's a good enough shooter to make teams pay for giving him space. He may never be a playmaking star due to limited athleticism, but he'll make people around him better, now and in the future, which is especially important as the Warriors continue to develop young players over the next decade.
The out-dated game of a 90's big in a body 80% the size, vs. a smart guard who fits with the culture and can facilitate others' success? Not even close.
Okongwu's impact on D as a switchable big with rim protection is the definition of a modern big. Very few of those in the league, and when you include elite pick and roll finishing it's basically just Anthony Davis. He'll probably be a good jump shooter within a couple years.
Defensively modern, I'll grant you. Offensively, I disagree.
"He'll probably be a good jump shooter within a couple years."
On what are you basing this assumption? Personally, I see nothing in the videos above to suggest that he'll ever get better at jump shots. His form looks hesitant, awkward, and inconsistent (not that Haliburton's looks good; it needs work, too, but at least he's had success with it). But even if he does become a better shooter in a couple years, that means that at the beginning of his career, his offensive value will be limited to low-post play. Besides some occasional defense, what does he give the Warriors now that's going to meaningfully contribute to a championship in the next 2-3 seasons? What does he give them that Chriss doesn't? If Okongwu develops, I think he has a better chance of doing it on a different team that can live with his learning curve. Haliburton or Vassell seem to me much better immediate contributors. Again, this team is still about Steph, Klay, and Draymond--who is going to make their lives easier?
I think a 19 year old that shoots 72% from the FT line, and has great touch around the rim will probably be a good shooter.
How does he help Steph, Klay and Dray? By being an elite defensive big man, that doesn't need to be taken off the court when other teams go small. And by being an elite finisher around the hoop. You're acting like post ups are still a thing. He's not just a dunker. He's got great hands and is someone who if you can get him the ball within 6 feet of the hoop he can use his athleticism, quickness, touch and angles to get it in. He's not just a dunker. That's rare, and there's certainly room for a guy like that within the space of the Warriors offense and their passing ability.
I do think he's somewhat redundant with Chriss, but he's a much better prospect. Chriss could be a solid starter. Okongwu could be a top 5 big man in the league.
Vassell is my number 1 guy, probably Killian Hayes #2. Then Okongwu, Halliburton and Okoro are grouped pretty close, but probably in that order. I like Halli too, I just don't agree with the way you're discounting Okongwu. He's a stud.
Well, I do still think that what Haliburton brings is more of what the team needs, but perhaps I'm underestimating the value of what Okongwu can do near the basket. And skeptical though I may be, I don't want to sound like I'm actively rooting against him. If he's the Warriors' pick, I'll have all the hope in the world that you're right and I'm wrong.
I like Halliburton. I tend to buy the reports that the Warriors FO likes him too, along with Vassell (and the reports they're not looking at big men). It's still early, it could all be just rumors floated, but if I had to bet those would be my top two guesses.
I vote Halliburton
Current results of the weighted voting: Okongwu leads by 1/2 a LGW comment vote. Really close.
Halliburton based on best fit.
Ty Hal
I'm gonna have to go with Haliburton because I think his shooting/defense will translate to the next level and that Okongwu will mirror the production we get from Chriss. We need a big who can shoot, not another undersized mobile big man who rim runs.
Soooo . . . quick question . . . was Isiah Stewart part of this tournament? Because I'm starting to really like him as an option as well.
Nope, Isaiah Stewart from Washington wasn't in the Top 11 of any analyst, so he didn't make the field. I have him ranked #25 on the Average Expert Draft Rankings. Can't imagine him as a Top 5 but maybe someone could take a flyer in late lottery?
Haliburton since i think Okongwu duplicates what we have with undersized centers in Chris, Dray, and Looney. If they were going to draft a center I'd rather they take Wiseman to give us more size.
I gotta go with Haliburton. Seems like he could hit the ground running with this team due to his high BB IQ and quality team defense. I really like the description of his attitude and his willingness to take advice and improve his game. With guys like Steph, Klay, and Dray around (not to mention Kerr), he could learn enough from them to take Warrior BB into the next decade as the current group of stars begin to fade.
I like Okongwu but I'm not sure of the value of a big who can't shoot the 3 in today's NBA.
Ideally, they'd trade the #1 pick down and still be able to get both of these guys :)
Seems to me like Haliburton has a slightly lower floor -- if nothing were to change I think it's unlikely Okongwu would be anything less than a rotation player with his athleticism and current skill level, while Tyrese at his current weight could end up being a bit of a liability on both ends (worst case scenario of course).
Ceiling-wise I think they're both pretty high -- Okongwu would need to add an outside shot and/or some play making and/or some shot creation to his game, while Haliburton would need his shot to translate and to add 20-30 pounds. I think that's what it comes down to for me, can Haliburton put on the weight? Some of those really skinny guys have a lot of trouble bulking up, but if Haliburton could get his body looking a little more like Iguodala's and a little less like Livingston I think he could be a star.
Can he do it? I dunno... you don't see that a lot. I think I'll play it safe and go with Okongwu.
It's stupid that I have a vote, because I don't watch college basketball. I could make a stab based on the write-ups. But I abstain - Dubs should trade down and get two for the price of one.
I believe this would win a poll over any individual candidate
Just noticed in a micro-SI-Cover-Curse, the last 5 cover pictures in the series have been for the losing player. On track for 6 in a row now, as Haliburton trails both here and on Twitter.
Both of these guys seem like they'd be amazing on the Dubs, and the choice between them is really hard because they're such different types of player but each contributes a whole lot in their area of specialty.
After much back-and-forth, Haliburton has to be my pick, because he provides more of something the Dubs are going to need more of: 3-point, shooting, accuracy. Love his passing, too.
I see Okongwu's shot-blocking as his most appealing skill (and I *love* the vision of the team getting PUMPED over some big rejections), but in terms of guys who are already on the team, I think there's a limit to how much more that adds if you have Draymond, Chriss, and Looney all playing in good health. Meanwhile, there really isn't a point of over-saturation for guys who can knock down an open shot.
Both these youngsters seem like they have the potential for a pretty great NBA career on Dubs, and Vassell, too. So yeah, sure, maybe there's nobody in this draft class who's as obviously NBA-ready as Doncic or Zion, even Ja Morant, but it sure feels nice to be looking at candidates in the single digit category on multiple draft boards and thinking, yeah, we could pick that guy.
would easily 'settle' for Haliburton, but my vote goes to Onkongwu.