Pistons, Wizards, and Spurs all lose again tonight. Ignoring the Wizards' win against the Pistons (someone had to win), the three teams have lost 21, 15, and 18 games in a row, respectively. 54 straight losses!
Then the 20-21 team is still better if they had Green and Wiggins and the current team doesn't. Draymond was still Draymond then with less histrionics. Wiggins and a certain Jordan Poole were rounding into form towards the end of 20-21, a precursor to their championship form in 21-22. Damion and JTA were solid vets. And Curry was 3 years younger...
You're not the only one. My brother just texted me he hopes he's out for at least 20 games. I don't like him being at practice though. That sounds really dumb.
The thinking may be "Let's not completely isolate Dray from his teammates, because they are probably part of his support network." That MAY be good for Dray, but I agree, it is probably not good for the rest of the team, in oh so many ways: 1)Press questions about Dray, 2)Constant reminder of his presence are two quick examples.
> Once teams start scouting for JK, Moody and Podz, they won't look the same. Just ask Poole.
You could say that about every player in the league. The only way to find out if they can succeed even after gaining opponents attention is to play them. Better to find that out when they are subbing in for a HoF'er who's lost it than next year when its too late to trade them in the summer and that HoF'er has probably signed elsewhere.
I'm getting a little fatigued by the psychodrama around this team, TBH.
Dray is 1,2,3 on that list, but:
4. We don't know what's going on with Wiggins.
5. Klay seems to be living in an alternate universe where he expects to be paid like a frontline player, but is producing like a 4-5 best player on the roster.
6. GP2, although possibly the nicest guy on the team, has been in-and-out of the rotation.
7. The speculation about trading Kuminga for Pascal Siakam, or hoping he gets better.
Funnily enough, Paul, our ex-rival, has probably been as solid and made fewer waves than anyone on the team.
Klay would be a justifiable starter if he was playing like the 4-5 best player on the roster. Right now he is behind Steph, Dray, CP3, Moody, Podz, and JK at least, probably Saric, and maybe Loon, too.
People keep bringing up Siakam but he is a worse shooter than JK (32% career from 3 and only 21% this season so far) and makes almost $38M this year on an expiring deal. That's basically Klay money for another non-shooter, albeit a fine defender. We would have to give up much more than JK to get a half-season rental of Siakam. He's 29 so probably not getting much better than he is now, although it's possible. No deal.
GP2 has been injury prone since he got into the league. Given he's Little Big Man on the court, that's not surprising. I think that's just part of what we get with him.
People keep thinking the solution is to add players... unfortunately the solution is to subtract player(s), or to just play and pray. Wiggins, god love him, has been a fucking boat anchor dragging this team to oblivion, he's the *literal* worst qualified player in basketball right now by BPM, winning his season long race to disgrace with Jordan Poole.
I completely agree. I want him to stay, and to sign another contract. I still haven't seen anything that is really awful. We knew he was a project when we drafted him.
They have kept things entertaining, you really can't turn off the game in the 3 Q if they are up 20 or down 13, and Curry might do something incredible most games.
When he was with Minnesota, he was the primary scorer so he scored a bunch on low efficiency. For the Dubs, it's very different - he's scoring very little on low efficiency :)
Efficiency is efficiency. Less shots doesn't mean increased efficiency. He gets less shot here because Steph and Klay are ahead of him. So he scores less points at same efficiency
I’m not going to use that against him since that was a completely different team. Also I don’t actually think Poole is the reason but food for thought.
Agreed. If he gets some real help, it may actually end up saving him from some real trouble he'd have if he lost it off the court like he does on. But, I'm not sure he'll really put in the work, it doesn't often go well to say "you must go get therapy and fix your problems" to a guy that doesn't think he has problems. Hope I'm wrong.
I think Green continuing to practice with the team while suspended will be confusing and disruptive. Why practice plays when he's not going to be playing? Let him stay in shape but keep him out of team practice.
>Do you even realize how bad the worst teams in the league are?
0-54 bad, lol
Pistons 0-21
Spurs 0-18
Wizards 0-15 (w/ one win against the Pistons)
And heck, even if they managed to be worse than all but those three teams, they’d still have only a 45% chance of keeping their pick.
And even if they did keep their pick (in a reputedly crappy draft), they’d have to give up their unprotected pick (in a reputedly strong draft) the next season.
Part of what Draymond has to learn is how to play aggressively within the rules. Other players do that. Playing hard does not have to mean playing dirty.
I don't think there is any real chance we sink that low unless Steph gets injured. You know they aren't going to sit him. And, we may be OK. If nothing else, Kerr may start experimenting, and the young guys might play.
Nah. Just cos you’re mad about Dray’s misbehavior/suspension and all the losses doesn’t mean you need to start openly fantasizing about Steph getting injured. Knock on wood, but there’s likely no correlation between one thing and the other.
Eh, close enough, given you started along the path to bringing it up by calling for the team to “tank like there’s no tomorrow.” Steph getting injured would certainly fit nicely with that plan.
In any case, it’s a completely pointless and non-reality based topic. There’s zero evidence the presence or absence of Dray affects Steph’s chances of injury.
Steph wouldn't tolerate sitting. He will play. I don't think Draymond being out means other teams defend Steph harder; Dray is not a feared shooter, and Steph already draws double and triple teams. It will be harder to get Steph the ball, and it REALLY hurts us on defense.
Man, his history is so bad, coupled with that flagrant 2.... I think they'd better suspend Wiggins indefinitely too to make sure we're properly punished.
> Man, his history is so bad, coupled with that flagrant 2.... I think they'd better suspend Wiggins indefinitely too to make sure we're properly punished.
Given how Wigs is playing, that would be a reward.
Huge Warrior fan for over 50 years, but I'm not sorry about this. He's crossed the line way too many times. He should have been suspended for punching his own teammate -- a smaller, younger guy he was supposedly mentoring. He often justifies his out-of-control behavior, and no one in the organization seems to be willing to hold him accountable -- Kerr, the front office, Steph. That the league has to step in is embarrassing.
I know he's been crucial to the four championships, adding toughness and roughness to a nice guy lineup. But for all his supposed intelligence, he can't/won't stay on the floor, and that should be a deal-breaker.
"That the league has to step in is embarrassing." As I understand it, the league steps in when there's an incident between players on different teams. When it's within a team, they apparently prefer to let the team handle it, as in The Punch.
Still a pretty nice-looking team (on paper) that should be able to rack up wins without Dray, but I wonder if they look to fill the 15th roster spot now.
I have a feeling they won't immediately. The 10-day contracts start in about 3 weeks. I would guess they'll wait for that, and hope he's back before then.
Pistons, Wizards, and Spurs all lose again tonight. Ignoring the Wizards' win against the Pistons (someone had to win), the three teams have lost 21, 15, and 18 games in a row, respectively. 54 straight losses!
New thread to discuss Draymond’s indefinite suspension: https://dubnationhq.com/p/draymond-suspended-indefinitely-the
Is the team, without Draymond and Klay and Wiggs in their current state, better relative to the league than the 2020-21 roster?
Depends. Does the 20-21 roster include Draymond and Wiggins in their 20-21 state?
20-21
Then the 20-21 team is still better if they had Green and Wiggins and the current team doesn't. Draymond was still Draymond then with less histrionics. Wiggins and a certain Jordan Poole were rounding into form towards the end of 20-21, a precursor to their championship form in 21-22. Damion and JTA were solid vets. And Curry was 3 years younger...
Remains to be seen. But I low-key hope Green is out for a while so that we can see what the young guys can do against first string opponents.
One indication we have is that game against wolves which was great. It’s more of when teams are gameplanning for them
You're not the only one. My brother just texted me he hopes he's out for at least 20 games. I don't like him being at practice though. That sounds really dumb.
Agree. I don't understand that. He should be out of practice, maybe even out of the facility.
The thinking may be "Let's not completely isolate Dray from his teammates, because they are probably part of his support network." That MAY be good for Dray, but I agree, it is probably not good for the rest of the team, in oh so many ways: 1)Press questions about Dray, 2)Constant reminder of his presence are two quick examples.
No way. We started 18-2.
Once teams start scouting for JK, Moody and Podz, they won't look the same. Just ask Poole.
> Once teams start scouting for JK, Moody and Podz, they won't look the same. Just ask Poole.
You could say that about every player in the league. The only way to find out if they can succeed even after gaining opponents attention is to play them. Better to find that out when they are subbing in for a HoF'er who's lost it than next year when its too late to trade them in the summer and that HoF'er has probably signed elsewhere.
I’m talking about the 8 seed year
You are right. Still. I don't think so.
I'm getting a little fatigued by the psychodrama around this team, TBH.
Dray is 1,2,3 on that list, but:
4. We don't know what's going on with Wiggins.
5. Klay seems to be living in an alternate universe where he expects to be paid like a frontline player, but is producing like a 4-5 best player on the roster.
6. GP2, although possibly the nicest guy on the team, has been in-and-out of the rotation.
7. The speculation about trading Kuminga for Pascal Siakam, or hoping he gets better.
Funnily enough, Paul, our ex-rival, has probably been as solid and made fewer waves than anyone on the team.
Can I be invited to the alternate universe where Klay is playing like the 4-5 best player on the roster?
Klay would be a justifiable starter if he was playing like the 4-5 best player on the roster. Right now he is behind Steph, Dray, CP3, Moody, Podz, and JK at least, probably Saric, and maybe Loon, too.
People keep bringing up Siakam but he is a worse shooter than JK (32% career from 3 and only 21% this season so far) and makes almost $38M this year on an expiring deal. That's basically Klay money for another non-shooter, albeit a fine defender. We would have to give up much more than JK to get a half-season rental of Siakam. He's 29 so probably not getting much better than he is now, although it's possible. No deal.
GP2 has been injury prone since he got into the league. Given he's Little Big Man on the court, that's not surprising. I think that's just part of what we get with him.
People keep thinking the solution is to add players... unfortunately the solution is to subtract player(s), or to just play and pray. Wiggins, god love him, has been a fucking boat anchor dragging this team to oblivion, he's the *literal* worst qualified player in basketball right now by BPM, winning his season long race to disgrace with Jordan Poole.
Re point 7, trading for a vet makes NO SENSE right now. Kuminga has shown value, even if he's been inconsistent.
I completely agree. I want him to stay, and to sign another contract. I still haven't seen anything that is really awful. We knew he was a project when we drafted him.
Just got to keep reminding ourselves - we won championship 18 months ago and it's just a game.
yeah. Honestly, if Kerr plays the young guys, I'll have fun. I just don't really expect that to happen yet.
Ditto
They have kept things entertaining, you really can't turn off the game in the 3 Q if they are up 20 or down 13, and Curry might do something incredible most games.
Maybe Wiggins mad they shipped out Poole and kept Draymond
That's just pure BS (sorry!) What was his reason for playing like this at Minnesota?
When he was with Minnesota, he was the primary scorer so he scored a bunch on low efficiency. For the Dubs, it's very different - he's scoring very little on low efficiency :)
Efficiency is efficiency. Less shots doesn't mean increased efficiency. He gets less shot here because Steph and Klay are ahead of him. So he scores less points at same efficiency
I’m not going to use that against him since that was a completely different team. Also I don’t actually think Poole is the reason but food for thought.
Probably an unpopular opinion but I feel for the guy. He needs to be punished and needs help but still.
Hopefully he comes back changed but what would that mean for his playing on the edge?
Agreed. If he gets some real help, it may actually end up saving him from some real trouble he'd have if he lost it off the court like he does on. But, I'm not sure he'll really put in the work, it doesn't often go well to say "you must go get therapy and fix your problems" to a guy that doesn't think he has problems. Hope I'm wrong.
Yup - a person and their ego has to buy in to the idea that they need help and that there is some one out there who can help.
Dynasty turning into Die Nasty. Bleh.
I think Green continuing to practice with the team while suspended will be confusing and disruptive. Why practice plays when he's not going to be playing? Let him stay in shape but keep him out of team practice.
They should send him to scrimmage with the Sea Dubs to keep his cardio up, and maybe he can help coach up Garuba while he is there.
Don't think the league wants Dray influencing G-Leaguers.
Yeah they wouldn't want him influencing the children. 😉
Might end up doing that who knows
100% agree.
Rorschach test idea:
Someone makes a wacky inflatable draymond. Do you see flailing or nut kicks and punches?
Given he is suspended indefinitely, does that count same injured player exception (or whatever it's called)?
I cannot imagine the league would allow any sort of exception when a player gets suspended for inappropriate conduct.
True
Wow.. Man! That's a gut punch I didn't expect. Even if Dray comes back "reformed", he is not gonna play with edge.
Blow up the starters - trade and whatever. Tank like no tomorrow and hopefully we get to keep our pick.
>> 2024 - 1-4 Own; 5-30 to POR (via MEM to BOS)
This is ludicrous. At the first sign of difficulty - BLOW IT UP!!! Come on. Do you even realize how bad the worst teams in the league are?
This is also a weak draft, fwiw.
>Do you even realize how bad the worst teams in the league are?
0-54 bad, lol
Pistons 0-21
Spurs 0-18
Wizards 0-15 (w/ one win against the Pistons)
And heck, even if they managed to be worse than all but those three teams, they’d still have only a 45% chance of keeping their pick.
And even if they did keep their pick (in a reputedly crappy draft), they’d have to give up their unprotected pick (in a reputedly strong draft) the next season.
Oh wait, maybe spoke too soon on the Spurs?
Gooooo Spurs!!
Let me go through the grieving period, man! No need to be upset.
Part of what Draymond has to learn is how to play aggressively within the rules. Other players do that. Playing hard does not have to mean playing dirty.
Portland has our first round draft pick.
Top 4 protected - right? Tank like there is no tomorrow
The Dubs are 10-13. The Pistons are 2-22.
Not with Steph on the roster.
I don't think there is any real chance we sink that low unless Steph gets injured. You know they aren't going to sit him. And, we may be OK. If nothing else, Kerr may start experimenting, and the young guys might play.
Well Steph is gonna push himself harder. He is going to be defended even harder. Increased chances of injury.
Nah. Just cos you’re mad about Dray’s misbehavior/suspension and all the losses doesn’t mean you need to start openly fantasizing about Steph getting injured. Knock on wood, but there’s likely no correlation between one thing and the other.
Steph doesn’t need to be catching strays here.
Not fantasizing.
Eh, close enough, given you started along the path to bringing it up by calling for the team to “tank like there’s no tomorrow.” Steph getting injured would certainly fit nicely with that plan.
In any case, it’s a completely pointless and non-reality based topic. There’s zero evidence the presence or absence of Dray affects Steph’s chances of injury.
always possible, but they can't sit him. The league would go nuclear on them.
Steph wouldn't tolerate sitting. He will play. I don't think Draymond being out means other teams defend Steph harder; Dray is not a feared shooter, and Steph already draws double and triple teams. It will be harder to get Steph the ball, and it REALLY hurts us on defense.
That's a big fat meh for me. I still doubt we're bad enough to have a great chance at the number 1 and that pick helped get us a chip.
Man, his history is so bad, coupled with that flagrant 2.... I think they'd better suspend Wiggins indefinitely too to make sure we're properly punished.
> Man, his history is so bad, coupled with that flagrant 2.... I think they'd better suspend Wiggins indefinitely too to make sure we're properly punished.
Given how Wigs is playing, that would be a reward.
Honestly I've seen him palling around with that Klay Thompson, might need to take away another one of his seasons to send a clear message.
So....I cant be the only one wondering.
But does Draymond's forfeited salary he taken out for luxury tax purposes?
50%
Nearly 150k per game if it is less then 10 game and around 220k per game if more - as per the espn article posted below
x 7+ for luxury tax. So, it's probably saving the team about $1 mil a game.
50% of forfeited salary.
Ah, OK, so more like 3.5 times salary.
It will keep Lacob in popcorn for a month.
It does, like the last suspension.
I really, really don't want Draymond on this team anymore. He is a liability. So long and thanks for all the chips.
How I feal about Klay.
If Klay accepts the fact that he’s Kyle Korver now, he can serve a useful purpose off the bench.
I still think there might be levers that can be pulled with Klay. We'll see how he responds to riding the pine at the end of the last game.
Dray suspended indefinitely
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39108236/golden-state-warriors-draymond-green-suspended-indefinitely-nba
Huge Warrior fan for over 50 years, but I'm not sorry about this. He's crossed the line way too many times. He should have been suspended for punching his own teammate -- a smaller, younger guy he was supposedly mentoring. He often justifies his out-of-control behavior, and no one in the organization seems to be willing to hold him accountable -- Kerr, the front office, Steph. That the league has to step in is embarrassing.
I know he's been crucial to the four championships, adding toughness and roughness to a nice guy lineup. But for all his supposed intelligence, he can't/won't stay on the floor, and that should be a deal-breaker.
"That the league has to step in is embarrassing." As I understand it, the league steps in when there's an incident between players on different teams. When it's within a team, they apparently prefer to let the team handle it, as in The Punch.
Plus he's just totally giving away the playbook to other teams- in high stakes games, rile him up. Can't fail!
oof
Starters: Steph-Podz-Moody-Kuminga-Saric
Bench: CP3-Payton-Klay-Wiggins-Looney-TJD-CoJo-Garuba-Santos
Still a pretty nice-looking team (on paper) that should be able to rack up wins without Dray, but I wonder if they look to fill the 15th roster spot now.
Who do you think they might add?
I have a feeling they won't immediately. The 10-day contracts start in about 3 weeks. I would guess they'll wait for that, and hope he's back before then.
I don’t think they’ll add anyone. Unlike last year with Iggy, PBJ and RR, the team doesn’t have any dead roster spots, so they have internal options.
Gui.
Added!