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ESPN Sources: Atlanta is hiring Golden State’s Onsi Saleh as an assistant general manager. Saleh — who had been VP of Basketball Strategy and Team Counsel with the Warriors — has worked closely with Bob Myers and Mike Dunleavy Jr., and previously with Spurs CEO RC Buford.

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1781397702053617923

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Salaries for Wiggs and Dejounte match very closely, just sayin ...

I think Wiggs is the missing piece that puts them over the top <wink>

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I’d rather have Wiggs.

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Wiggs 2023-24 VORP: -0.3

Dejounte 2023--24 VORP: +2.6

It's not a no-brainer your way.

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Do you have a preference between Wiggs and Dej?

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I’d rather have Wiggs.

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Do you have a preference between Wiggs and Dej?

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It would be nice to have some form of consistency next year from our main guys.

Draymond - Inconsistent availability

Wiggins and Klay - Inconsistent mindset (for different reasons)

When EVERYBODY was available they started to build a bit of rhythm. Unfortunately it was too late and the hole was too deep. If everybody is on the same page from day 1 next year I feel like we still have a shot even with less talent. This team in a year where they shot themselves in the foot with the crap that was happening still managed to win 46 games. I don't believe they're done. They just need to get their crap together, adjust to the new NBA and the reality of the big 3. Also getting bigger would help. No more 3 6"4 and under guard lineups.

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Consistency? Well, they'll be a year older. Might not matter for Wiggins, the youngest, but you could arguably call him the most inconsistent of the three for this year. MN traded him for a reason. Klay can still shoot but he really has trouble defending. Draymond is Draymond and keep your fingers crossed. Not too long ago Kerr said we can't win w/o him, defending Draymond against critics who said trade him. Problem is, Warriors can't with with him.

Better to see what the market is for any of them, got some projects in return and build for the future. It's up to Dunleavy at this point to take on Kerr and ownership and build for the future. But that's not gonna happen. I don't know if it's a good thing or not, Curry having the patience of a saint.

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Not talking strictly about their basketball skills. For Klay he was in and out of his "Am I still the guy?" mindset and it made his play totally erratic all yeah. As for Draymond... no explanation needed.

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r/nba

2 hr. ago

Pyromania1983

76ers

[Pompey] Tobias Harris' tenure with the 76ers is expected to end once their postseason run concludes. Several NBA executives believe there’s a chance he’ll land with the Detroit Pistons in free agency.

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Paul George to Philly confirmed.

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But I want Paul George

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Me too.

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Apr 19·edited Apr 19

Yeah Wiggins probably gone. Lol.

Go to nba

r/nba

10 hr. ago

supremeboxlogo12

Steph Curry on Wiggins: “it’s like that parent-child relationship. Not to say he is a child but to only ask him to do what he is capable of doing.”

"That message is for everybody -- it's just a little louder when it's a guy like Wiggs."

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1c7n3sl/steph_curry_on_wiggins_its_like_that_parentchild/

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Some guys you never have to ask to “do what they’re capable of doing”:

Moody, Podz, TJD.

Kuminga … well, you might have to ask him occasionally, but you can feel confident he’s always gonna bring it, effort-wise. And though his passing and 3 pt shooting are still X factors (fwiw I’m bullish on both given how young he is) you know he’s gonna put up around .600 TS on high volume and 6-7 boards per 36.

Wiggs … you just never know. If we hold onto him next season, I feel like we could get anything from .500 TS low-effort Wiggs of early this season, to 2022 all-star Wiggs, to anywhere in between. Hard to plan around that much uncertainty.

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I think he puts in effort proportional to the size of the moment.

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Is this a real comment from Steph? Seems odd to me.

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They cut up the answer he make it more click bait. This is his full answer:

The message is for everybody — it’s just a little louder when it’s a guy like Wiggs who has performed at the highest of levels and helped us tremendously win a championship like he’s fully capable. What he has to do is not easy. I think that is something people miss in terms of he usually has the assignment to guard the best perimeter guy, we want him to be aggressive offensively as well and create shot attempts, create a good offense and be aggressive attacking the rim, take shots he’s suppose to take. What he has to do requires energy, requires a physicality and a consistency but he’s fully capable. It’s like that parent/child relationship where you — not to say he is a child — but you only ask someone to do know you’re capable of doing and that’s our energy towards Wiggs all the time. I think he understands how important he is to us reaching our full potential as a team. We’ve seen that over the last month or so, he answered the bell so that helps.

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Apr 19·edited Apr 19

It's not really odd when you think about the fact that Steph is a very involved Dad if 3+1. So I have to assume it's a real comment. 😅

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Personally love Wiggs but he’s got to go. He’s been a big dead weight on the team pretty consistently since the ‘22 chip.

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In this line.

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Oh, boy… that’s not a very respectful comparison… or a great message. Sounds like he’s gone, indeed

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Apr 19·edited Apr 19

Do people think we're making the playoffs next season?

This is the first offseason since 2012 where I don't think we'll be making the playoffs next season. I was wrong in 2012. Steph and Bogut recovered from injuries and the team went from 23 wins to 47 wins.

I was wrong again in 2019, I thought we'd make it with: Curry/Dlo/Green/Looney/WCS/Burks/Chriss/Paschall

...but Curry broke his hand 5 games in and that season was over.

I was wrong again in 2020, I thought we'd make it with: Curry/Oubre/Wiggins/Green/Looney/Wiseman/Poole/JTA

...but Wiseman, Oubre, and Poole underperformed, we never got Klay back, still finished 8th, but lost 2 play-in games to become the first 8th seed to not make the playoffs.

I hope I'm wrong this offseason 2024.

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Depends on how they approach this offseason. If they are focused on trying to improve, then I think they will easily make the playoffs. If they are focused on cost-cutting, then this whole thing is probably over. Seems like they've been signaling that it's going to be the latter, but we'll have to see what they actually do.

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Apr 19·edited Apr 19

Right now, I'd say it depends on whether their talk about changes is legit or just talk. If we basically just "run it back" minus CP3 and plus the 52nd pick, then yeah, it's probably going to be the same as this year. Right now, I don't see it happening next season because I fear this team has grown too risk-averse, but I tend to be pessimistic, so take what for what little it is worth.

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Apr 19Liked by Eric Apricot

When Kerr talks about Moody not playing more because of some specific detail that Kerr thinks he doesn't do well enough, this is what I think of. I wanted Henry Abbott's TrueHoop article "Steph Curry Does Winning Things" because it talks about this situation in more detail but it is paywalled, however he points out that Zach Lowe briefly wrote about it so this is what I have. From like 2011, guess where Valanciunas is now and Aaron Gray is now:

> Valanciunas, of course, has been the chief focus of Toronto’s player development staff this season, and that has been another source of tension between the analytics team and the coaching staff. Valanciunas, like most rookies, misses rotations, overhelps, and commits other sins of positioning on defense. Coaches hate that stuff, and they’ve often nailed Valanciunas to the bench in crunch time in favor of Aaron Gray — a fundamentally sound player who lacks NBA athleticism.

> The numbers in large part disagree with that tactic, at least as it relates to Valanciunas’s defense. The Raptors’ defense has been better with Valanciunas on the floor. More importantly, the visualization data shows that Valanciunas is active and athletic enough to make up for all his defensive mistakes, Rucker and his team say.

> “With Jonas — yeah, he’s making mistakes,” Boyarsky says. “But who cares?”

> Casey said he hasn’t had deep discussions with the analytics team about Valanciunas, but Sterner has, and he agreed it’s sometimes a thorny issue of valuing culture over results. “You want your defense to be sound,” Sterner says. “Even though the production might be better, you still want [Valanciunas] doing the right thing.

https://www.espn.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/58751/gregg-popovich-builds-young-players

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But Kerr is honestly letting politics/pressure influence him regarding Kuminga. I don’t think many would say Kuminga is a super sound defensive player yet (quite to the contrary, he was definitely our weakest link on the wing). He also holds the ball and takes a long time to get into his 3 point shot. I mean, he did that twice in the last game. So why is Moody, who’s the same age, being held to such a higher standard? Just sounds political to me but what do I know

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Crafted DPM (combines DARKO/LEBRON/DRIP/BPM/LAERAPM into one metric) showcases Kuminga as in the 58th percentile as a defender while Moody is in the 50th percentile.

Perhaps Kuminga isn't so much held to a higher standard as, despite his flaws, he's been a better defender?

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I have no idea how to evaluate all of those metrics being combined. I do know from a stocks + eyes + Darko perspective, Moody is a far superior defender at practically everything. We gave JK all this credit for being a good on ball defender, but I've never seen him lock down people the way Moody could this year.

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JK was a bulldog, but this year, it seems like he focused on not gambling… hope it works out for him, and he’s able to balance the aggressiveness going forward. But, Moody’s length will always help him in this regard.

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Lol klay is by far a worse defender then kuminga

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Slower, for sure.

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Political reasons can still be sound reasons. Moody was competing for minutes with Klay and Wiggs, and it would have been better for the org if one or both those guys had rediscovered their mojo. Chances are now that at least one those guys won't be back, maybe both. I expect big things from Moses next year, unless he's fed up and asks out.

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Well Kerr also thought it went without saying that Moody should have been behind GP2 in the rotation (a position I didn't think made much sense), which doesn't really speak to politics as much as Kerr not thinking Moody was very good.

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Super duper small sample size but sure didn’t look that way to me against Sacto

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Production Matters More Than Intention. If you're often in the wrong spot, running the wrong play, setting the wrong screen, but the team does better with you on the floor then what's the problem. Sounds like they're too caught up in the details to see the bigger picture.

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I think coaches can be biased toward players who follow their instructions to a tee (also why it took TJD so long to overtake Looney despite the center spot having minimal depth all season), if Moody gets a steal simply because his arms are super long and not because he positioned himself perfectly then I guess that is not as appealing for Kerr, but at some point the actual production has to matter as well and it seemed like it never did. That's the theory I've settled on for why Kerr has buried Moody for three seasons despite a chart like this:

https://snipboard.io/MRUTkq.jpg

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I think this applied to Kuminga as well as Moody and TJD. They were all way more effective than they “deserved” to be just because of length/athleticism, but it didn't get the appriopriate weight from Steve compared to Podz or CP3’s “intelligence” because of his natural biases.

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Wanamaker over Poole was an example of it too.

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Season 1, Moody did look athletically mismatched. Always falling down, not super explosive, and inexperienced. They benched him practically all of the first half last year, but I recall him coming into a few games soaring for ridiculous offensive boards, diving on the floor for steals, and making some insane defensive plays. By that point, it was getting absurd he wasn't playing more but I guess he hadn't been consistent.

This year, he was fantastic until he strained his calf and was getting no PT. The yo-yo-ing probably made him play worse too.

On top of this, the guy was our 2nd best player in an elimination game and still couldn't get more than 13 non garbage time minutes (even with GP2 missing the game). That is bad coaching straight up, I don't know what else to say.

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Apr 19Liked by Eric Apricot

OK- I’m gonna write it:

Congratulations to the Golden State Warriors on their 2023/24 season!

I am sad with the disappointing ending… but want to recognize the improvement over last season’s W/L record , and +10 wins above .500.

The Kings played better in the play-in game. The Warriors somehow did not have the physical or mental skills necessary to beat them that night. The Ws looked their age (older, slower) and the Ks looked more energetic, more aggressive, taller, and shot better. Klay’s shooting, Steph’s turnovers, lack of perimeter defense to stop 3 point shooters, and general inconsistent play from most of the others made it a resounding defeat. They were in it at half and had chances early in the 3rd, but could not put it all together and ended up crashing out. I had hoped for a much better showing. It was not so fun to watch, but as a long time fan, I did until the end.

For me looking at this season it seemed the team never really had a clear focus or cohesion of roles and how best for everyone to play within the whole team.

At the start of the season, adding Chris Paul was an unknown dimension, Klay T. and Andrew W. started slowly offensively, Jon Kuminga was still unsure and trying to find his place, the rookies were playable but inexperienced. It looked like everyone was feeling their ways, including the coaches. Steph started out scoring well, and Draymond was Draymond and the team did well in the first several games, but then with a few losses, especially the close ones, it seemed like the uncertainty of roles and usage started to show. Draymond’s actions changed the dynamics, and his missing games necessitated lineup shuffles. Wiggins’s absences also furthered the inconsistent rotations. I thought Steve Kerr had a tough job to coordinate all of this and did well with Klay, Kevon, and Wiggins rotation adjustments and making minutes available for the rookies to develop their games.

All of this was then combined with Dejan Milosevic’s sudden shocking death at a team function where several player were present. Must have been horrific to experience individually and as a team. Then the subsequent schedule adjustments created additional challenges for coaches and especially players who rely on a certain rhythm and routine to push themselves physically and mentally to perform at peak levels with intense scrutiny and pressure.

To have put together a season that actually was better than last, when they had the 6th seed in the West playoffs, and finish with the best 10th place finish for any team in NBA history, I feel is a credit to everyone associated with the 2023/24 GS Warriors.

Lots to consider as fans, management, and players, go into the off season.

A lot of ‘what ifs’ and ‘if justs’ and ‘why nots’ and could haves/should haves etc. being thrown around as to be expected in these circumstances.

It will be interesting to see how things play out… but unfortunately not as much fun as watching Warriors basketball games . Make ’em look! It’s (still) a Great Time Out!

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👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 love this

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That game was really shocking no matter how I look at it for so many reasons.

On top of that their horrible record vs good teams the need for a major change is very evident to most. Due to all the reasons discussed frequently here, that change will be very challenging to pull off to produce a legitimate contender. Duh.

If they choose to stay with the trio and Klay signs I believe it will require the following.

Klay becomes the permanent 6th man with minutes based on how he is shooting each night.

Draymond is the 4 and his minutes are used wisely to save his body. He needs to build upon his 3 point shooting improvement this year, knock off this nonsense that he cannot be a legit, consistent 3 point threat and scorer. He needs to become a legit high volume 38 to 40 pct 3 point threat that has to be guarded.

Curry needs to have close to the freedom he had when they had KD. Teams cannot be allowed to do what Sac did without getting hurt by it.

Wiggins has to go. JK has to be one wing option to go with the Wiggins replacement.

Can they add an athletic point guard with some size and an athletic wing that is a 3/4 dependable scorer?

Looney as a backup 5. I believe he has the ability to score and shoot the ball if he focuses on it.

I believe he was a point guard in HS and he played outside at UCLA. Become a reliable mid range shooter and driver. He went to the hoops a bunch of times this year and showed he has the ability.

If Green and Looney can remake themselves then it makes a huge difference financially and on the court opening up more options to bring guys in. It is a big ask but feasible and greatly needed.

Or they somehow find an athletic 5 that can score and play defense. Either way Green has to remake his game and be a legit consistent scorer.

That’s my take and it will probably take some good fortune like they had with Otto Porter.

Just all my opinion and I might be nuts but their options are so slim their best hope might be some guys being able to remake themselves. If Brooke Lopez and similar players can do it…….

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Doh, Johni Broome is not going into the Draft and is returning the Auburn. I was tracking that guy as the next Trayce Jackson-Davis. Tremendously productive college player that people think is the wrong shape for a pro. He was projected to drop to Warriors draft territory, but I guess that projection was enough to send him back to school.

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He's not coming out early? So can I call him "Johni come lately "?

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There's a new kid in town

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https://www.sfgate.com/warriors/article/klay-thompson-accused-brick-vandalism-spree-ai-19407952.php

From Grok, Twitter's News AI Bot:

Klay Thompson Accused in Bizarre Brick-Vandalism Spree

In a bizarre turn of events, NBA star Klay Thompson has been accused of vandalizing multiple houses with bricks in Sacramento. Authorities are investigating the claims after several individuals reported their houses being damaged, with windows shattered by bricks. Klay Thompson has not yet issued a statement regarding the accusations. The incidents have left the community shaken, but no injuries were reported. The motive behind the alleged vandalism remains unclear.

https://twitter.com/i/trending/1780463179388117057

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You'd think an AI bot would help the Klaybot out.

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Lol, that's hilarious. I hope it makes my klay laugh.... Dunno how I would react if I were him 🤷

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Sue the richest cringe dork in the world, who owns Grok, for defamation, I hope.

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If they are presenting it as actual news, f** yes, sue them for libel.

This whole trend of using AI-written stories is just insane. Maybe in 15 years, there will be some way for bots to separate some level of 'truth' from mere correlation, but they clearly can't now.

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Apr 20·edited Apr 20

WAIT A SECOND. You mean to tell me ERIC AND SLEEPY are not advanced AI BOTS? ERIC 'S play breakdowns analyses/their closing hilarious sense of humor, and SLEEPY's inimitable use of selective stats for infinite analyses/possibilities, are human creations? How about some of the flawed/errant jealous bot models that have migrated to this site? They are humans, also, even though they have no idea of the GALAXIAL SPACING RESULTING FROM ITS GRAVITY that the risk-taking genius ''LACOB LIGHTYEARS, INC'' programmed into the HOMEGROWN HOF CORE TRIO+ of STEPH/KLAY/GREEN + ANDRE? THAT, IS UNCANNY!

I had to pinch myself...IT HURT! I always thought I was an older AI FAN BOT of the early production years of ''LACOB LIGHTYEARS, INC''; its flawed early creations, programed from back in the days when MJAX WAS A DUBS ALL-TIME HISTORIC HERO....On a second thought, I am glad I am a flawed human...and not a flawed AI BOT...even if it hurts, sometimes...

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The whole concept of 'truth' is not even represented in those current models. It's entirely besides the point of LLMs. I'm literally munching popcorn watching C-Suite frat bros falling all over themselves destroying their careers by not understanding what LLMs are and what they can and cannot do. The next few years are going to be train wreck after train wreck, I'm probably putting my retirement savings in Icelandic T-Bonds soon.

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Check out the podcast better offline. It has two solid episodes on all this stuff. You might like it.

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I am aware of it. While I don't really listen to podcasts, I read Ed Zitron's (the host) newsletter fairly frequently. I appreciate the pointer, though.

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I understand that ... AI (at least as far as I understand it) is just a huge inference engine to tease out correlations that a human being wouldn't see.

However, I'm guessing there will be a way to build a concept of 'truth' in eventually. I was thinking a little bit about it last night ... there must be some way to compare the result with the product against a known truthful dataset. Or a way to manipulate datasets in such a way that you have not only correlation, but also causation. Or a way to weight causational relationships higher than mere correlation, and have humans essentially tag causational relationships for the AI.

Interesting stuff, AI. I'm awfully glad I'm retired. :)

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They need to do this for the concept of humans. No more 20 figured weirdos please.

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They are probabilistic models and they have scraped everything in existence for data.

It would be funny if we are already at the high point for general AI.

Hallucinating is kinda baked into their DNA.

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Certainly the near-peak of current LLMs, who will become more useless and unpredictable as they ingest more crap generated by other models as training input - see 'AI Doom Loop'. I'm sure someone is already working on better architectures, but those will have to look entirely different.

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Apr 19·edited Apr 19

Hmm is it more likely all the clean datasets just get privatized and the money shifts to selling that? I don't know enough about different ml models to know if there's a way to create a sense of truthfulness/ probity in these (or if that would be profitable to begin with), but it would make sense to me that there isn't a "solution" when the problem is people using an inference machine to try and produce accurate unsupervised connections of non-objective data

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I just looked up DeRozan's contract and found that he's going to be a free agent in the upcoming offseason. Who's going to take him?

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He's probably going to an LA team.

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Apr 19Liked by Eric Apricot

MT’s tribute to the end of the dynasty in The Athletic:

https://theathletic.com/5423748/2024/04/17/warriors-dynasty-run-end-nba-game-changing/?source=thebounce_newsletter&campaign=9567249&userId=2283944

The whole article is a good read. Here are some highlights.

If this is the end, let it be known, they were the epitome of impressive.

If this is the end, let it be remembered their peak was seismic enough to reframe history and reconfigure landscapes. They were quality for any era, capable heroes and worthy villains. During their reign, the NBA salary cap doubled and team valuations tripled.

If this is the end, let it be recorded how their contributions extended beyond their own glories. They altered the geometry of basketball and adjusted the formula for success. They brought the best out of LeBron James, Kyrie Irving, Kevin Durant and James Harden. They forced a league to adjust, raise its level, and even had a hand in pushing the defending champion Denver Nuggets, and possibly the Boston Celtics, to new heights. They shifted the focus from size to skill, and forced size to be skilled, paving the way for the engineering of a new generation of stars. Do an ancestry test on Nikola Jokić and Luka Dončić and you’ll find traces of the Warriors dynasty in their DNA.

If this is the end, this is a much more respectable demise than what seemed imminent. Though impotent on this night in Golden 1 Center, their valiance was present. They didn’t implode. They weren’t eroded from within by drama. They weren’t carted off the court with an injury. They got beat, like they’ve beaten so many others, and took it on the chin.

If this is the end, basketball as a community shouldn’t be content with just dancing on the Warriors’ grave. Sure, fun must be had at Golden State’s expense. They’ve earned that, too. But, at some point, a nation of dancing pallbearers would be more appropriate. They should be honored by lovers of the game, respected for what they’ve accomplished.

If this is the end, it was indeed an epic run.

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Apr 20·edited Apr 20

BINGO. Well-said. LACOB is too smart to let another billion or two in added value for his enterprise go, due to a an unfortunate CONVERGENCE of injuries/untoward occurrences, that stole half a season from this team's chemistry-development process. They will be back because they almost pulled it off after playing only 17 games or so, TOGETHER, at the END of the season. Plenty more where that came from....you may see the DRAY suspension(s)/injury recovery as glass half-empty, but, I see a half-full scenario that easily translates to another 10 WINS, AND, YOU KNOW WHERE THAT PUTS US IN THE STANDINGS OF THE ''highly-competitve'' WEST! Would be stupid not to ride THE HOF TRIO PLAYING TOGETHER LEGENDARY GRAVITY/GALAXIAL SPACING -THAT REVOLUTIONIZED THE NBA GAME- at least another year, and JOE is a very astute businessman.....BESIDES, THE NBA FANS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD LOVE IT -STEPH IS STILL THE BEST-SELLING SHIRT/KLAY TURNAROUND A GAME IN MINUTES- AND WOULD BE THRILLED TO SEE IF THE DUBS CAN PULL IT OFF, ONE MORE TIME DURING THE SAN FRANCISCO ALL STAR SHOWCASE YEAR! S0, PAUL moves on, and PODZ runs the 2nd unit/he will do it well, pick up another BIG who wants a last shot at a SHIP...won't take much RISK, JOE knows ALL about RISK-taking. LIGHTYEARS, as proven, with mathematical PRECISION.

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Not bad if he is still playing at his top level. Perfect match to go out with the trio.

Their options are slim.

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Please try to use the reply button so we know what your comment relates to. Thank you.

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Apr 19Liked by Eric Apricot

https://old.reddit.com/r/warriors/comments/1c7fwow/steve_kerr_suggested_there_may_be_some/

Steve Kerr suggested there may be some significant changes coming with the offensive scheme: "We had a style mainly based on the offball movement of Steph...I have to take it on myself to help the players be put in better positions to make better decisions...I need to create a simpler format."

-States how most of the time the offense schemes were mainly based off the off-ball movement of Steph & Klay + Dray as the Point-Center

-Some of the offense is planned, some of it isn't. Turnovers usually happen as a result of the free-lance parts

-Current roster construction past couple years isn't built to withstand the mistakes while also not built to support the freelance stuff (which leads to the turnovers)

-Kerr acknowledges he has to put the players in "better positions to make better decisions"

-Used his time as in the Triangle Offense in the Bulls to explain - "What Phil used to tell us, 'We don't run the triangle for Michael & Scottie. We run it for the rest of you guys. To help you make decisions, to help simplify the game.' I'm not gonna run the Triangle"

-Gonna create a simpler format of offense

-Still gonna maintain some aspects of the motion offense moving forward, but acknowledges he needs to teach it better, simplify it better, and come up with better templates/schemes to help the players make better decisions

-States the better offense => better defense cause of how it's connected

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This is super interesting. The genius of original Kerrball was simplifying the ideas of the Triangle in a package that players could absorb more quickly. I am quite interested in what he comes up with now.

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