Wiseman. Whether or not Wiseman already knows or will ever learn to play, he has already learned how to have a 7'5" wingspan and a 34" vert. That alone enables him to contribute quickly and winning now in Curry's window is my priority.
For me, Wiseman represents high risk, high reward. He has more upside from what I've seen of video, can run the floor, has a nice touch around the basket, very athletic, and could give the Warriors an unusual look and presence in the paint. This is a big if, though, as it relies on him learning to play within their system and mastering certain strategies and tactics that the Warriors want to see from a big man. He can certainly add on weight and muscle. Reminds me of McGee's athleticism. I don't see how they can pass up this gamble. OTOH, the Warriors are infamous for picking up big men either in FA or by trade. Toppin will be a serviceable big, but doesn't have W written on his forehead.
Wiseman is my choice, in as far as who I would prefer to see as a Warrior. Ultimately, I think they should try and trade the pick + asset(s) to get what they really want, if that is possible. Otherwise, Wiseman will be an asset for future trades.
Great comments, folks. Finally, some controversy! Unfortunately, between two candidates no one really wants. For a change, LGW votes are exactly in line with Twitter, with Wiseman holding a 55%-45% lead. There’s been enough voting that it’s unlikely Toppin will catch up.
I myself lean Toppin because of the sheer lack of track record on Wiseman. And it feels like there are Damian Joneses out there (athletic tall and still learning the game) for not so much $. Toppin is looking like at least an ok big on offense, possibly excellent, and the Q becomes how bad will the defense stay?
Assuming his D stays poor, I checked out the ESPN RPM for Centers and PFs with + ORPM and - DRPM:
Boban
Kyle O’Quinn
Thomas Bryant
Jaxson Hayes
KAT (!!!)
Blake Griffin
Kyle Kuzma
Kelly Olynyk
Kevin Love
James Johnson
Jaren Jackson
Michael Porter Jr
So, these are mostly significant contributors, though possibly challenging to build a top flight contender around.
I'd go with Wiseman. At worst, he seems like a serviceable center. Toppin is a complete pylon on defense. Can you imagine Toppin and Steph trying to guard the P-N-R? If Toppin is only a 4 and can't play the 3 or 5, his positional value is very low. Draymond would run him out of the gym.
On a second note. . . . you guys gotta check out Precious Achiuwa. He's 6'9 225 with a 7'2 wingspan, is supremely athletic, and perhaps the most versatile defender in the draft. Not only is he a good rim protector . . . I've seen him routinely shut down guards on the perimeter. His main weakness is that he is an inconsistent shooter and inexperienced as he hasn't played basketball that much compared to the other prospects. Just, check him out, I think he is a really good player.
I'd probably take Wiseman. Offensively, his baseline skills as a rim runner/screener should be good enough to be a productive player with Curry/Thompson in our lineup allowing time for him to develop. Defensively, his physical skillset (athleticism allowing him to guard the perimeter + 7'6 wingspan to block shots) gives distinct hope that he should be a productive player on that end. In comparison, Obi should be a productive offensive player in the NBA from Day 1 but defensively I'm. not sure if he will ever be a good player given how bad he is in the perimeter . . . he'll be a tremendous negative in the playoffs.
I was high on Toppin for some time, but watching his defense over and over again makes one rethink his position drastically. He's a big that can shoot which is great, but we need someone who can also play D. I don't like the fact that Wiseman only played 3 games, but if you look at his ft% and Toppin's ft% plus the fact that Wiseman has a smooth looking stroke, there's good chance that Wiseman can match Toppin's production in that regard. Wiseman's the better rebounder and defender both assets we need on the team right now. I keep thinking Toppin as a guard, and if he was, he wouldn't even be considered. So I find myself surprised that I'm going with Wiseman this round.
I lean Toppin here for two reasons: 1) he's a little older and more experienced thus more likely to step in and contribute on day one, and 2) I think there's a very good chance he'll be a contributor on at least one side of the ball. Wiseman is just such an unknown at 19 years old w/ just 3 games in college, he has huge boom potential and huge bust potential. With the team where it's at we can't really afford to whiff on this pick, we need contributors on the cheap, and we need them to produce on day one not 3 years down the road.
Toppin likely will be below average on defense, but with an offensive ceiling of Blake Griffin + shooting he can make up for a lot on the other end, and at least be a solid trade chip for a team that cares less about defense.
Wiseman - I started with Toppin and then rethought it. It's hard for me to see Toppin as a top 5 pick. If stuck with a top five, I would prefer boom or bust on Wiseman, just because you want at least a chance of a franchise player out of such a rare pick. and Wiseman is the athletic class of this draft. As an example, if I were picking in 2007, there's little question I would have said pick Greg Oden over, say, Joakim Noah (there's no Kevin Durant in this draft, for sure), which is a bit of how I see this choice. Noah was pretty sure to be a productive player, and I think Toppin is pretty sure to be too (although I also have disturbing cautionary visions of Ed O'Bannon and Marcus Fizer when I think of Toppin). But particularly for top picks, I think you have to at least be willing to roll the dice on ceiling. And if you get past the top five picks and Wiseman is still on the board, he begins to look like a bargain for the same reasons.
I choose Wiseman. He’s seen as a bit risky due to shortened college season, I don’t think there’s that much downside. He should be a really good rim running dunker, rebounder, shot blocking C. Those aren’t as valuable as they used to be, but defensively they still have a big impact over 82 games. He’s also a good free throw shooter and it’s possible he develops as a 3P shooter. That’d make him very unique, and one of the most valuable bigs in the NBA.
Toppin I have a hard time imagining him adding much defensive value. He’s also a bad rebounder. So it’s all offensive value, and he’s not someone who creates his own shot. He’s just an absolute stud as a finisher and that would create some great options in the Warriors offense. He shot 3’s well this year, though not with much volume.
I just don’t think that adds up to much in the NBA. John Collins minus the rebounding?
Wiseman. Whether or not Wiseman already knows or will ever learn to play, he has already learned how to have a 7'5" wingspan and a 34" vert. That alone enables him to contribute quickly and winning now in Curry's window is my priority.
For me, Wiseman represents high risk, high reward. He has more upside from what I've seen of video, can run the floor, has a nice touch around the basket, very athletic, and could give the Warriors an unusual look and presence in the paint. This is a big if, though, as it relies on him learning to play within their system and mastering certain strategies and tactics that the Warriors want to see from a big man. He can certainly add on weight and muscle. Reminds me of McGee's athleticism. I don't see how they can pass up this gamble. OTOH, the Warriors are infamous for picking up big men either in FA or by trade. Toppin will be a serviceable big, but doesn't have W written on his forehead.
Wiseman is my choice, in as far as who I would prefer to see as a Warrior. Ultimately, I think they should try and trade the pick + asset(s) to get what they really want, if that is possible. Otherwise, Wiseman will be an asset for future trades.
Great comments, folks. Finally, some controversy! Unfortunately, between two candidates no one really wants. For a change, LGW votes are exactly in line with Twitter, with Wiseman holding a 55%-45% lead. There’s been enough voting that it’s unlikely Toppin will catch up.
I myself lean Toppin because of the sheer lack of track record on Wiseman. And it feels like there are Damian Joneses out there (athletic tall and still learning the game) for not so much $. Toppin is looking like at least an ok big on offense, possibly excellent, and the Q becomes how bad will the defense stay?
Assuming his D stays poor, I checked out the ESPN RPM for Centers and PFs with + ORPM and - DRPM:
Boban
Kyle O’Quinn
Thomas Bryant
Jaxson Hayes
KAT (!!!)
Blake Griffin
Kyle Kuzma
Kelly Olynyk
Kevin Love
James Johnson
Jaren Jackson
Michael Porter Jr
So, these are mostly significant contributors, though possibly challenging to build a top flight contender around.
I'd go with Wiseman. At worst, he seems like a serviceable center. Toppin is a complete pylon on defense. Can you imagine Toppin and Steph trying to guard the P-N-R? If Toppin is only a 4 and can't play the 3 or 5, his positional value is very low. Draymond would run him out of the gym.
On a second note. . . . you guys gotta check out Precious Achiuwa. He's 6'9 225 with a 7'2 wingspan, is supremely athletic, and perhaps the most versatile defender in the draft. Not only is he a good rim protector . . . I've seen him routinely shut down guards on the perimeter. His main weakness is that he is an inconsistent shooter and inexperienced as he hasn't played basketball that much compared to the other prospects. Just, check him out, I think he is a really good player.
I'd probably take Wiseman. Offensively, his baseline skills as a rim runner/screener should be good enough to be a productive player with Curry/Thompson in our lineup allowing time for him to develop. Defensively, his physical skillset (athleticism allowing him to guard the perimeter + 7'6 wingspan to block shots) gives distinct hope that he should be a productive player on that end. In comparison, Obi should be a productive offensive player in the NBA from Day 1 but defensively I'm. not sure if he will ever be a good player given how bad he is in the perimeter . . . he'll be a tremendous negative in the playoffs.
I’ve leaned from Toppin to Wiseman, just think the upside is better . Wiseman
Wiseman. Defense defense defense. Can play spot minutes year 1, 20 minutes years 2-3, then start. Or bust. Obi doesn’t have same defensive potential.
I was high on Toppin for some time, but watching his defense over and over again makes one rethink his position drastically. He's a big that can shoot which is great, but we need someone who can also play D. I don't like the fact that Wiseman only played 3 games, but if you look at his ft% and Toppin's ft% plus the fact that Wiseman has a smooth looking stroke, there's good chance that Wiseman can match Toppin's production in that regard. Wiseman's the better rebounder and defender both assets we need on the team right now. I keep thinking Toppin as a guard, and if he was, he wouldn't even be considered. So I find myself surprised that I'm going with Wiseman this round.
I lean Toppin here for two reasons: 1) he's a little older and more experienced thus more likely to step in and contribute on day one, and 2) I think there's a very good chance he'll be a contributor on at least one side of the ball. Wiseman is just such an unknown at 19 years old w/ just 3 games in college, he has huge boom potential and huge bust potential. With the team where it's at we can't really afford to whiff on this pick, we need contributors on the cheap, and we need them to produce on day one not 3 years down the road.
Toppin likely will be below average on defense, but with an offensive ceiling of Blake Griffin + shooting he can make up for a lot on the other end, and at least be a solid trade chip for a team that cares less about defense.
I'm really not crazy about either one - but I'll go with Toppin.
toppin
Toppin easily
Wiseman - I started with Toppin and then rethought it. It's hard for me to see Toppin as a top 5 pick. If stuck with a top five, I would prefer boom or bust on Wiseman, just because you want at least a chance of a franchise player out of such a rare pick. and Wiseman is the athletic class of this draft. As an example, if I were picking in 2007, there's little question I would have said pick Greg Oden over, say, Joakim Noah (there's no Kevin Durant in this draft, for sure), which is a bit of how I see this choice. Noah was pretty sure to be a productive player, and I think Toppin is pretty sure to be too (although I also have disturbing cautionary visions of Ed O'Bannon and Marcus Fizer when I think of Toppin). But particularly for top picks, I think you have to at least be willing to roll the dice on ceiling. And if you get past the top five picks and Wiseman is still on the board, he begins to look like a bargain for the same reasons.
I choose Wiseman. He’s seen as a bit risky due to shortened college season, I don’t think there’s that much downside. He should be a really good rim running dunker, rebounder, shot blocking C. Those aren’t as valuable as they used to be, but defensively they still have a big impact over 82 games. He’s also a good free throw shooter and it’s possible he develops as a 3P shooter. That’d make him very unique, and one of the most valuable bigs in the NBA.
Toppin I have a hard time imagining him adding much defensive value. He’s also a bad rebounder. So it’s all offensive value, and he’s not someone who creates his own shot. He’s just an absolute stud as a finisher and that would create some great options in the Warriors offense. He shot 3’s well this year, though not with much volume.
I just don’t think that adds up to much in the NBA. John Collins minus the rebounding?
Obi...