Has anyone else noticed how healthy and quick and bouncy (at least very much more so than the Tutankhamen of previous games) was Smiley in latest gl game? More help coming our way?
Geez don’t we need it at PF. It would be so good if we get some blow out leads towards the back of the season and rest Dray. A couple of awkward injuries for him recently
We have reason to be skeptical about Smiley but he's the second tallest on the team after Wiseman, and we could use some height—if he's any good. Big if.
Also look at the 48 turnovers to 39 assists in his entire G-League stint.
Now he may well be a better option than Wanamaker (which is saying a lot about how bad Wana has been), but there's lots of question marks when it comes to Jordan Poole.
He wasn't playing point in the G-league. The Gingerbread Mannion and Lin were. He did a lot better at the end of last year in a larger sample size and against NBA, not G-league competition.
Steph Curry asked about seeding: "We just want to not be in the play-in situation, that'd be helpful...Probably best case scenario, with where we are right now, if we could sneak into the fourth seed, that'd be amazing."
Best response from someone from the team yet. Everyone's been saying stuff about how we're not chasing wins or we're just trying to get better. It's not a bad thing to have goals! And as someone who never gives up in our chances to win it all, it would be nice to see the team exude those same feelings as well
I agree with him. 5th seed looks achievable, 4th is quite a stretch. But after this current trial-by-fire stretch, we should have some easy games in the second half of the season, and in a lot of ways the team seems to be figuring things out. As long as the starters are mostly healthy it feels like we could get there.
Here's a "light years" thought: The Warriors are expecting to blow out Portland so hard on the bounce-back that they called up Jordan and Nico to occupy the extended garbage time minutes. ;)
Steve Kerr says Brad Wanamaker's ideal role would be to play alongside another playmaker like he did in Boston (Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown) and it's been a tough season for him.
So, they were either planning for EP or Oubre to be better about driving that bench unit, or they grossly underestimated what they need from backup PG
I think the Warriors prioritize a backup PG who can play with Curry more than one who can't but can create good shots.
But I think the guy who has disappointed in leading the bench unit is Wiggins. He was better earlier in the season and the Warrior second unit was actually looking like a strength of the team. Kerr claims he is fatigued, so perhaps they look better after the All-Star break.
Man I hope Wiggins gets back to what he was doing earlier in the season (after the first two games we never speak of). He was looking so good leading the second unit, and even looked like he had the beginnings of a good drive and kick game.
Yeah, it would make a bigger difference for the bench unit offense than anything else imo. The advantage the Warriors had over every team was that the Wiggins/Paschall frontcourt was too fast and/or strong for their backup frontcourt.
But on the other hand, perhaps Wiggins playing so much at the backup 4 early on is why he's been fatigued at the break? Same thing for Paschall at the 5 with all his knee soreness and the knee brace he wears? And Draymond spraining his ankle and having that locked up knee off of a few weeks of playing center? So maybe it was unsustainable. But that gets into a different conversation about if the Warriors need another center.
I am not inclined to believe that the center position is THAT much rougher, physically, than other positions. Even suppose it is, we have Smiley and Quese on the full roster. Is it really worth having more than 6 centers on a 17-man roster? (I'm counting Draymond and Paschall because that's their best position.)
it may go back to what Beli is saying above about getting guys who play well next to steph rather than without him? I think the core issue I see here is that they're envisioning this role (someone who comes off the bench and leads the bench squad) along the lines of Iguodala, but we just don't have the personnel.
In other words, they don't need a primary ball handler at point so much as they need SOMEONE that can sorta drive the whole thing. EP and Oubre both would have been the "drive and kick" initiators, but it's just not working for whatever reason so I think they're looking for a more targeted solution by subbing out Wanamaker
Ugh, I don't like that line of thinking because with Wiseman and Chriss, it seems kinda obvious that a PnR ballhanding PG is exactly the kind of thing the bench could use, unless they expected Wiggins/Oubre to all of a sudden develop a PnR game.
I don't understand the hesitation people are having with poole taking wannamakers spot, did you not see him run the offense the last month or two last season? He worked his ass off this season and has been balling in g league.
He had a TS of .598% in his limited minutes he had here, I believe the kid is ready and even if he's not he can't be worse then wannamaker
This last month in the GL: 4.5 TOs and 3.6 AST per game. Whatever he was facing or asked to do in the gleague, he will be facing a tougher version in the NBA. He did shoot well, not from three though... he got to the basket and finished... if that aspect of his game translates, I can see him doing well being a wing that can come off the bench and space the corners and get to the basket (very much like Baze).
He's shooting 32.5% from three in the G League. If he's going to be an upgrade over Broken Wanamaker, he has to shoot much better, because his defense is much worse.
So far Poole hasn't shown that he can shoot the three at a high percentage at the NBA or the G League level. He needs to be a good shooter if he's going to make it in the NBA.
One thing I noticed from watching the games was that over half of both Poole and Nico's threes are being taken several feet beyond the 3 point line, and NONE of them are corner threes. I think it's because they have a lot of guys who just spot up on the perimeter in the offense, and Nico and Poole's job has been more to handle the ball and kick it to open shooters... so they don't get many kickouts themselves.
Also, Poole was actually drawing some double teams and getting every defense going over screens against him once he started to lead the league in scoring. But yeah, it's disappointing that his driving game has looked better than his shooting game, because the latter seems more likely to translate to the NBA.
Yeah but his 3 pointer hasn't worked in the NBA either. I'd be very curious to know his three point percentage if you removed garbage time from this season, I feel like 33% might be overselling how impactful he's been at the NBA level.
The FT% is encouraging and watching a guy like Malik Monk rediscover his shot and explode onto the scene in his fourth season is encouraging, then again Monk was a better shooter in college.
Yeah I'm not saying it looks promising for Poole's shot. I'm just saying... watch the games... he's not taking a lot of open 3s. There are actually G League stats sortable by distance that I think heavily confirm my eye test here: https://stats.gleague.nba.com/players/shooting/?sort=25-29%20ft.%20FGA&dir=1
JP was getting 5.5 shots per game from 25-29 feet, and only 1.4 shots from 20-25 feet. He's shooting 28.3% from the long range 3s, but shooting 46.7% on the short range 3s.
Neither of them will be seeing very many corner threes in the NBA either... your primary ball-handler is not going to end up in the corners very often. Using Wanamaker as an example: out of 54 3PA, only 4 were in the corners. So they're going to have to hit non-corners.
Yep, good point. My hope is we won't have to watch Poole shoot from Curry range, and they'll figure out things he can do better in the offense that involve him occasionally getting an open 3 anywhere on the perimeter.
Was just about to say the same thing. Which, actually, maybe brings us to an interesting possibility: not putting Poole in instead of Wanamaker but *alongside him* might provide some better quality shots for each!
I've watched all the G League games this season, and Poole and Nico are doing great. But I do think there's a chance they're both worse than Wannamaker on an NBA court right now when you factor in defense with the offense. I don't think this is a clear, easy win move. It's more like a move to try something, give one (or maybe two?) young guys a chance, and then make the real decisions later on when you have more data.
Poole's at a point where he can be a star player in the G League... but can he translate any of that to the NBA? I'll bet there's a certain point a player gets to where no one can predict how their game will translate until they give them a chance on the court. So the Warriors are giving him a chance, knowing he might not pull it off. Maybe they think it's an outside shot, who knows.
If Poole does figure it out though, it will be pretty epic. He plays with a lot of swagger and could add a lot of energy to the bench, which already has a lot of young guys. It would also be a crazy turnaround from one of the worst rookie starts of all time.
I think JP's at a crossroads right now. He could pull off a Looney (someone with a questionable start who slowly adapted to become a cog in the rotation) or a Jacob Evans/Jordan Bell failure. We'll start getting a good look soon.
It's great for the team because we are guaranteed to get more of Juan, but actually maybe not great for Juan himself because now the team doesn't have to give him a proper NBA salary?
With the way he played, he had pretty much cemented his place with the team, but they had to give him a full league contract to get him more rotation minutes and a playoff spot. Now they don't. I don't know actually know the difference in finances but I believe two-way G-league contracts to be less $$$ than full NBA contracts.
I think this year you can have 15 players to suit up which means getting paid NBA min per game if on a two-way contract. With Klay out and injuries being there now and then, either Nico or OurGuyJuan or both should suit up and get full NBA min per day.
Still having guaranteed contract would be best but at the least I hope he gets to suit up and paid NBA min for every remaining 34 games.
Yikes. I forgot about Quese. He is out too. So if I am right about 15 to suit up and this change happens, OurGuyJuan will get payed equivalent to NBA min for rest of the season.
The only remaining question would be somebody like Lin, but the team has seemed pretty consistent in saying that they're content with the roster they have right now, so it would have to be a pretty clear upgrade.
I don't think they're just going to toss Wanamaker off the deep end of the bench though, my guess is the team is just eager to tinker a little more
While I'm glad the Dubs are making this move, and while I think/hope Nico and Poole will be offensive upgrades over Brad, I have reservations that those two young guns are the solution for *this* season, and wonder what other options Meyers is looking at. But I certainly hope they outperform expectations and I am absolutely stoked to see them blossom, especially Nico. I wonder if Kerr will play them together? Could be fun, and effective.
I also want to see them two together. I think they could develop into a pretty good backup backcourt. Nico really impressed me in his limited time with his playmaking
Hmm, I think with Wiseman out there you really need a PnR ball handler out there. You ain't stopping much with a Wiseman-Paschall front, so go all in on offense.
While a PnR ball handler would be great to have in combination with Wiseman, I think at this point, the Dubs would be better off not forcing so many PnR passes into Wiseman. We've seen a few highlight reel dunks for Wiseman, but a lot more TOs due to bad hands and miscommunication about how to get him the ball. They'd be better off with Wiseman as a pick 'n pop option - this would give us a chance to see if his three-ball is legit or if his current percentage is a small sample size anomaly.
Well I think we all know there's no clear answer at this point. Someone will have to somehow start playing better if we really want to fix the bench issues for good
It's been a weird roster all year, and we're still finding out bits and pieces we're missing.
We suspected that nobody besides the Splash Bros had an above-average 3-point shot, which has mostly seemed true. Oubre and Wiggins appear to have regressed to their career means (for better and for worse, respectively), but not Wanamaker yet. We don't have enough data to say if Wiseman's 3pt shot is decent, elite, or just a fluke. And there are similar sustainability questions about Draymond's, Paschall's, Juan's, and even Mychal's.
The team's ability to play defense has gradually clawed its way into the top of the standings. That much was more or less expected, given how the team is constructed (long arms club). Chriss being out threw the center rotation for a loop. Paschall being best at center has been weird too.
The second unit being a weakness is the latest thing to pop up, which is weird because just a month or so ago the starting unit was struggling and it was the second unit that was putting us in games. I think a lot of that had to do with Paschall and teams being unprepared for him. They're ready now, and the unit's second options have been bad. Lee is missing a lot of his shots; Wiggins, too. The first unit figured out how to cut and get easy baskets that way; the second unit's cuts look performative. They're not stressing the defense. Some guys have been able to drive and kick, but not against really good defenses, which force turnovers on those situations. That means it's down to iso or nothing.
It would be really nice to have someone we could depend on to make plays when Curry is out. You'd think we could beat a team like Charlotte even without him; we almost did. But we don't have a backup we can depend on. Even after calling these guys up, I think we don't; they're both too raw. But we may as well shake things up and see if something cool falls into place.
To my eyes, it's his defense. He seems to have this almost Monta-like ability where you see somebody get a wide open dunk and then have to rewind it to see whose man it was.
But the defensive metrics are real tricky because it's just so much harder to isolate one person's impact, and if they don't play a lot of minutes...
But also, handles and assists. One of Oubre's biggest breakthroughs imo has been him seeing the plays more. Being the primary ball handler is about more than just shimmy power. Also, Kerr seems willing/eager to find non-PG guys that can guide the bench units, Mulder is a play finisher like Klay
Dubs were spoiled for years with 3 defensively switchable distributors -- Dray, Iggy & sdot. That explains the failure to develop a single point guard in the decade since Curry was drafted, relying instead on league minimum guys like Cook etc to hold down that 3d PG spot.
I think they really thought that secondary ball handling duties could be handled by offense initiators like Oubre, Wiggins, or Paschall. I feel like finding a good backup point guard is becoming as hard as starting center used to be for the Warriors
I think Chriss was actually going to be a major hub for the 2nd unit. Counting on him to be the screen, roll and pass threat with a variety of those ballhandlers.
I wouldn't call it a failure so much as rotten luck. Don't forget that the timing of Klay's injury -- before FA -- severely limited who Meyers could sign. None of the players he had targeted when the Dubs were still considered contenders were interested after Klay's injury. Thus we ended up with Brad and didn't even land a center.
Yeah - it wasn’t easy. I understand the constraints. I’m just saying Wanamaker playing x amount of minutes has more to do with roster building vs Kerrs decision making.
That's the point: Wanamaker obviously wasn't helping the team win -- this season or next. While some have been preaching patience, Wanamaker was heavily contributing to the team's loses. Also, Kerr is overly-diplomatic and PC, almost to a fault. He would never say anything negative about a player in public. But you can be sure that he and Meyers have been looking into ways to upgrade the backup PG position from the start. It would be negligence on their part if they weren't.
Oubre is the cautionary tale here, but I lean towards agreeing. On the other hand, if Wanamaker ever regressed to his career mean for shooting it would be an epic run that would definitely make his contribution a whole lot more positive
Even if Wanamaker found his 3pt shot again, he seems like another player that really needs to play with Curry/Green to be a positive contributor on offense, which isn't what we supposedly signed him for.
It's weird too, because his per36 assist numbers look good, but I just don't see him making many "point" plays. Like, his PnR and dribble drive abilities don't look threatening at all, and he's unable to make 3s even at the low volume he takes them.
I guess he reminds me of shorter version of the old, worn out Iguodala from 2018-2019. Iguodala was a great secondary playermaker/passer, but trying to use Iguodala to initiate as a PnR ballhandler was not setting up for success.
Though, even worn out Iguodala wasn't quite the negative on offense that Wanamaker has been though.
His three ball has really fallen off this year, but a bigger concern is his inability to finish near the rim. Anyone have Wanamaker's shooting percentage in the paint?
None of his plays ever stick out. There's nothing flashy to it (which is probably why his TOs are low), he just makes the correct simple plays. He's not blowing by defenders and making the defense collapse. A lot of times it's just making a move to get the defense to react and then making the quick read to get it to the guy whose defender is slightly sagging off.
Not saying this is enough. We certainly need him to be a threat to score but that's where his assists are coming from. I think we've all been spoiled by Iguodala and SDot these years and kind of take these skills for granted but we really don't have a lot of options on this roster...
Right, but in Oubre's case it was *mostly* a matter of when, not if. There's a reason Boston didn't pick up Brad's option. Brad's deficiencies span not just shooting, but also playmaking. He seems to have forgotten how to be a PG. But yeah, totally, I'm still rooting for him to return to his baseline. It's what's best for him and especially the team. On the other hand, I'm stoked to see Nico dish out dimes galore (along with plenty of TOs lol).
Actually I'm guessing Kerr has a mandate to win NEXT season. This year is his to learn, tinker, adjust and train for next year's success when the team will have more ammo.
the defense is a real thing, and I'm guessing that's where the Warriors main concern is. Kerr's been REAL vocal about this being a defensively-minded squad first and foremost.
Also, it's a crowded position: the semi-primary ball handler on the bench. Iguodala and Liv and David West sort of person that can steer everything. Oddly, I've been thinking lately that it might be Looney, the glue guy, next season with Wiseman as the starter.
Personally, I think this unit with Quinn Cook at PG would work well (perhaps swapping Bazemore and Lee). Cook's defense sucks but the other guys are strong defenders which limits the damage, and offensively I think it would actually be a well-spaced lineup given JTA's surprising ability to hit catch and shoot threes.
But I've always been a Cook fan, whereas I know many Warrior fans are jaded by the 2019 Finals.
Looney doesn't quite have the hands for it. Not talking about his weak dribbling skills (and his court vision is decent), but too many balls get flubbed/juggled by him. Even when he doesn't lose the ball, he still doesn't catch & pass it very cleanly. I like his game a lot, but I think the "point-forward" spot is a big reach for him.
Anyone tracking any movement for us in the DPE/trade space?
Has anyone else noticed how healthy and quick and bouncy (at least very much more so than the Tutankhamen of previous games) was Smiley in latest gl game? More help coming our way?
Geez don’t we need it at PF. It would be so good if we get some blow out leads towards the back of the season and rest Dray. A couple of awkward injuries for him recently
We have reason to be skeptical about Smiley but he's the second tallest on the team after Wiseman, and we could use some height—if he's any good. Big if.
https://www.reddit.com/r/warriors/comments/lwgs14/pooles_playmaking_passing_highlights_from_last/
Poole should have been playing over Wanamaker. Looks at these passes
Also look at the 48 turnovers to 39 assists in his entire G-League stint.
Now he may well be a better option than Wanamaker (which is saying a lot about how bad Wana has been), but there's lots of question marks when it comes to Jordan Poole.
He wasn't playing point in the G-league. The Gingerbread Mannion and Lin were. He did a lot better at the end of last year in a larger sample size and against NBA, not G-league competition.
Yeah, not sure what to make of the turnovers.
He has 53 assists to 61 tov in 14 G-league games across two seasons. (4.0 ast to 4.7 tov per 36)
But at the NBA level he has 147 ast to 82 tov in 72 games across his two seasons. (3.7 ast to 2.0 tov per36)
Yeah I'm not saying he's perfect cause if he was he'd already be playing for us, but it's worth a look.
Bummer, apparently I can't embed that video in the preview.
I tried though, nice find!
@ShamsCharania
NBA All-Star 3-point contestants: Stephen Curry, Donovan Mitchell, Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Devin Booker, Zach LaVine
That's compassion. He's trying to give the other guys a fair chance.
step on the gas, fellas!!
> @anthonyVslater
Steph Curry asked about seeding: "We just want to not be in the play-in situation, that'd be helpful...Probably best case scenario, with where we are right now, if we could sneak into the fourth seed, that'd be amazing."
Best response from someone from the team yet. Everyone's been saying stuff about how we're not chasing wins or we're just trying to get better. It's not a bad thing to have goals! And as someone who never gives up in our chances to win it all, it would be nice to see the team exude those same feelings as well
Lock in!
I agree with him. 5th seed looks achievable, 4th is quite a stretch. But after this current trial-by-fire stretch, we should have some easy games in the second half of the season, and in a lot of ways the team seems to be figuring things out. As long as the starters are mostly healthy it feels like we could get there.
Here's a "light years" thought: The Warriors are expecting to blow out Portland so hard on the bounce-back that they called up Jordan and Nico to occupy the extended garbage time minutes. ;)
If the Portland game goes into extended garbage time, I don't think that bodes well for the Dubs!
this is kinda interesting
> @wcgoldberg
Steve Kerr says Brad Wanamaker's ideal role would be to play alongside another playmaker like he did in Boston (Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown) and it's been a tough season for him.
So, they were either planning for EP or Oubre to be better about driving that bench unit, or they grossly underestimated what they need from backup PG
Oubre? Or you mean Wiggins?
nah, remember they started with Oubre in that bench role?
Honestly, I wouldn't mind giving him another shot at that now that his game is mostly back to normal
I feel like a lot of changes may be made after the all star break.
I think the Warriors prioritize a backup PG who can play with Curry more than one who can't but can create good shots.
But I think the guy who has disappointed in leading the bench unit is Wiggins. He was better earlier in the season and the Warrior second unit was actually looking like a strength of the team. Kerr claims he is fatigued, so perhaps they look better after the All-Star break.
Man I hope Wiggins gets back to what he was doing earlier in the season (after the first two games we never speak of). He was looking so good leading the second unit, and even looked like he had the beginnings of a good drive and kick game.
Wiggins has also stopped doing his post hook which he was getting an easy two baskets a game with earlier in the season, idk why
Yeah, it would make a bigger difference for the bench unit offense than anything else imo. The advantage the Warriors had over every team was that the Wiggins/Paschall frontcourt was too fast and/or strong for their backup frontcourt.
But on the other hand, perhaps Wiggins playing so much at the backup 4 early on is why he's been fatigued at the break? Same thing for Paschall at the 5 with all his knee soreness and the knee brace he wears? And Draymond spraining his ankle and having that locked up knee off of a few weeks of playing center? So maybe it was unsustainable. But that gets into a different conversation about if the Warriors need another center.
I am not inclined to believe that the center position is THAT much rougher, physically, than other positions. Even suppose it is, we have Smiley and Quese on the full roster. Is it really worth having more than 6 centers on a 17-man roster? (I'm counting Draymond and Paschall because that's their best position.)
I am not sure follow regarding ".. for EP or Oubre ..." part. May be that playmaker is Poole or Nico. I don't see either EP or Oubre as playmakers.
Poole/Nico+Wannamaker/DLee+Wiggs+EP+Wiseman would make sense to me assuming EP can figure out how to be as effective at 4 as small ball center.
it may go back to what Beli is saying above about getting guys who play well next to steph rather than without him? I think the core issue I see here is that they're envisioning this role (someone who comes off the bench and leads the bench squad) along the lines of Iguodala, but we just don't have the personnel.
In other words, they don't need a primary ball handler at point so much as they need SOMEONE that can sorta drive the whole thing. EP and Oubre both would have been the "drive and kick" initiators, but it's just not working for whatever reason so I think they're looking for a more targeted solution by subbing out Wanamaker
I see. I just don't see Oubre and EP being that - atleast not yet. They have shown flashes but largely go 1-on-N with N being 1 or 2 or 3
Ugh, I don't like that line of thinking because with Wiseman and Chriss, it seems kinda obvious that a PnR ballhanding PG is exactly the kind of thing the bench could use, unless they expected Wiggins/Oubre to all of a sudden develop a PnR game.
*as he does as a small ball center
Whew, Draymond seems to be ok!!!
> @BradyKlopferNBA
Draymond Green practiced fully today and will play tomorrow, Steve Kerr says.
I was worried, not gonna lie. With all these players getting called back early and the All Star break looming...
So happy to read Commish’s report that Festus Ezeli was picked up by the Knicks’ affiliate. Anyone know how he’s doing these days?
three straight years of rehab is what Festus mentioned in his announcement. Wishing the best for that guy!
It's a steep climb back into the NBA
Punk Basketball, where is our good friend D-cube?
wow!
I don't understand the hesitation people are having with poole taking wannamakers spot, did you not see him run the offense the last month or two last season? He worked his ass off this season and has been balling in g league.
He had a TS of .598% in his limited minutes he had here, I believe the kid is ready and even if he's not he can't be worse then wannamaker
Would you rather have poole playing like he did last two months of last season or wannamaker right now?
This last month in the GL: 4.5 TOs and 3.6 AST per game. Whatever he was facing or asked to do in the gleague, he will be facing a tougher version in the NBA. He did shoot well, not from three though... he got to the basket and finished... if that aspect of his game translates, I can see him doing well being a wing that can come off the bench and space the corners and get to the basket (very much like Baze).
He's shooting 32.5% from three in the G League. If he's going to be an upgrade over Broken Wanamaker, he has to shoot much better, because his defense is much worse.
So far Poole hasn't shown that he can shoot the three at a high percentage at the NBA or the G League level. He needs to be a good shooter if he's going to make it in the NBA.
Poole has proven to be a better pick n roll player n drive n kick player then wannamaker, that's what the second unit needs
One thing I noticed from watching the games was that over half of both Poole and Nico's threes are being taken several feet beyond the 3 point line, and NONE of them are corner threes. I think it's because they have a lot of guys who just spot up on the perimeter in the offense, and Nico and Poole's job has been more to handle the ball and kick it to open shooters... so they don't get many kickouts themselves.
Also, Poole was actually drawing some double teams and getting every defense going over screens against him once he started to lead the league in scoring. But yeah, it's disappointing that his driving game has looked better than his shooting game, because the latter seems more likely to translate to the NBA.
Yeah but his 3 pointer hasn't worked in the NBA either. I'd be very curious to know his three point percentage if you removed garbage time from this season, I feel like 33% might be overselling how impactful he's been at the NBA level.
The FT% is encouraging and watching a guy like Malik Monk rediscover his shot and explode onto the scene in his fourth season is encouraging, then again Monk was a better shooter in college.
Yeah I'm not saying it looks promising for Poole's shot. I'm just saying... watch the games... he's not taking a lot of open 3s. There are actually G League stats sortable by distance that I think heavily confirm my eye test here: https://stats.gleague.nba.com/players/shooting/?sort=25-29%20ft.%20FGA&dir=1
JP was getting 5.5 shots per game from 25-29 feet, and only 1.4 shots from 20-25 feet. He's shooting 28.3% from the long range 3s, but shooting 46.7% on the short range 3s.
Neither of them will be seeing very many corner threes in the NBA either... your primary ball-handler is not going to end up in the corners very often. Using Wanamaker as an example: out of 54 3PA, only 4 were in the corners. So they're going to have to hit non-corners.
Yep, good point. My hope is we won't have to watch Poole shoot from Curry range, and they'll figure out things he can do better in the offense that involve him occasionally getting an open 3 anywhere on the perimeter.
Was just about to say the same thing. Which, actually, maybe brings us to an interesting possibility: not putting Poole in instead of Wanamaker but *alongside him* might provide some better quality shots for each!
Yep, especially given that DDD quote from Kerr on Wanamaker
I've watched all the G League games this season, and Poole and Nico are doing great. But I do think there's a chance they're both worse than Wannamaker on an NBA court right now when you factor in defense with the offense. I don't think this is a clear, easy win move. It's more like a move to try something, give one (or maybe two?) young guys a chance, and then make the real decisions later on when you have more data.
Poole's at a point where he can be a star player in the G League... but can he translate any of that to the NBA? I'll bet there's a certain point a player gets to where no one can predict how their game will translate until they give them a chance on the court. So the Warriors are giving him a chance, knowing he might not pull it off. Maybe they think it's an outside shot, who knows.
If Poole does figure it out though, it will be pretty epic. He plays with a lot of swagger and could add a lot of energy to the bench, which already has a lot of young guys. It would also be a crazy turnaround from one of the worst rookie starts of all time.
I think JP's at a crossroads right now. He could pull off a Looney (someone with a questionable start who slowly adapted to become a cog in the rotation) or a Jacob Evans/Jordan Bell failure. We'll start getting a good look soon.
Athletic reports NBA to lift 50-game limit and playoff restrictions for 2-way players
Great for Juan.
Saves Wanamaker?
It's great for the team because we are guaranteed to get more of Juan, but actually maybe not great for Juan himself because now the team doesn't have to give him a proper NBA salary?
With the way he played, he had pretty much cemented his place with the team, but they had to give him a full league contract to get him more rotation minutes and a playoff spot. Now they don't. I don't know actually know the difference in finances but I believe two-way G-league contracts to be less $$$ than full NBA contracts.
DonJuan would pay to play with Dubs. But fairness is an issue though
I thought he gets league minimum after the 50th game.
No. He gets league min in those 50 max games
Bueno - thanks
I think this year you can have 15 players to suit up which means getting paid NBA min per game if on a two-way contract. With Klay out and injuries being there now and then, either Nico or OurGuyJuan or both should suit up and get full NBA min per day.
Still having guaranteed contract would be best but at the least I hope he gets to suit up and paid NBA min for every remaining 34 games.
Yikes. I forgot about Quese. He is out too. So if I am right about 15 to suit up and this change happens, OurGuyJuan will get payed equivalent to NBA min for rest of the season.
Plus playoff shares!
The only remaining question would be somebody like Lin, but the team has seemed pretty consistent in saying that they're content with the roster they have right now, so it would have to be a pretty clear upgrade.
I don't think they're just going to toss Wanamaker off the deep end of the bench though, my guess is the team is just eager to tinker a little more
While I'm glad the Dubs are making this move, and while I think/hope Nico and Poole will be offensive upgrades over Brad, I have reservations that those two young guns are the solution for *this* season, and wonder what other options Meyers is looking at. But I certainly hope they outperform expectations and I am absolutely stoked to see them blossom, especially Nico. I wonder if Kerr will play them together? Could be fun, and effective.
DPE is still available I guess.
When is the trade deadline this year?
March 25
Ultimately, my best guess currently for a bench unit is Lee / Baze / JTA / Paschall / Wiseman (with Wiggins or Poole coming in early as needed)
You saying Lee will be the PG? Interesting. I'd still like to see some Nico and Poole together in garbage time.
I also want to see them two together. I think they could develop into a pretty good backup backcourt. Nico really impressed me in his limited time with his playmaking
Right? They can both score and facilitate. Could be a dynamic duo. Their defense would be a problem, tho.
Nico's a pest on defense I thought. Poole definitely needs to get some semblance of defense if he wants to be a good player though
Kerr's going to bleed out of his eyeballs watching that tandem on defense
Jarron Collins is going to have his work cut out for him. ;)
Haha
I'm saying Lee and Baze with EP can manage to pass the ball around enough to where we don't need a real PG
Hmm, I think with Wiseman out there you really need a PnR ball handler out there. You ain't stopping much with a Wiseman-Paschall front, so go all in on offense.
While a PnR ball handler would be great to have in combination with Wiseman, I think at this point, the Dubs would be better off not forcing so many PnR passes into Wiseman. We've seen a few highlight reel dunks for Wiseman, but a lot more TOs due to bad hands and miscommunication about how to get him the ball. They'd be better off with Wiseman as a pick 'n pop option - this would give us a chance to see if his three-ball is legit or if his current percentage is a small sample size anomaly.
That's also interesting. But if that's what Kerr is thinking, there would be little need to bring Nico and Poole up early...
Well I think we all know there's no clear answer at this point. Someone will have to somehow start playing better if we really want to fix the bench issues for good
Amen.
It's been a weird roster all year, and we're still finding out bits and pieces we're missing.
We suspected that nobody besides the Splash Bros had an above-average 3-point shot, which has mostly seemed true. Oubre and Wiggins appear to have regressed to their career means (for better and for worse, respectively), but not Wanamaker yet. We don't have enough data to say if Wiseman's 3pt shot is decent, elite, or just a fluke. And there are similar sustainability questions about Draymond's, Paschall's, Juan's, and even Mychal's.
The team's ability to play defense has gradually clawed its way into the top of the standings. That much was more or less expected, given how the team is constructed (long arms club). Chriss being out threw the center rotation for a loop. Paschall being best at center has been weird too.
The second unit being a weakness is the latest thing to pop up, which is weird because just a month or so ago the starting unit was struggling and it was the second unit that was putting us in games. I think a lot of that had to do with Paschall and teams being unprepared for him. They're ready now, and the unit's second options have been bad. Lee is missing a lot of his shots; Wiggins, too. The first unit figured out how to cut and get easy baskets that way; the second unit's cuts look performative. They're not stressing the defense. Some guys have been able to drive and kick, but not against really good defenses, which force turnovers on those situations. That means it's down to iso or nothing.
It would be really nice to have someone we could depend on to make plays when Curry is out. You'd think we could beat a team like Charlotte even without him; we almost did. But we don't have a backup we can depend on. Even after calling these guys up, I think we don't; they're both too raw. But we may as well shake things up and see if something cool falls into place.
Is Mulder too slow to handle PG duties? Doesn't have the defense? The handles?
Pretty much nothing out of Mulder's game suggest he can initiate offense.
And I think the reason he doesn't play much even with his 41% 3pt% right now is because his defense is soft as warm butter.
To my eyes, it's his defense. He seems to have this almost Monta-like ability where you see somebody get a wide open dunk and then have to rewind it to see whose man it was.
But the defensive metrics are real tricky because it's just so much harder to isolate one person's impact, and if they don't play a lot of minutes...
But also, handles and assists. One of Oubre's biggest breakthroughs imo has been him seeing the plays more. Being the primary ball handler is about more than just shimmy power. Also, Kerr seems willing/eager to find non-PG guys that can guide the bench units, Mulder is a play finisher like Klay
Handles, I think
That's just plain insanity
That wannamaker leading the league in fourth quarter minutes stats is completely unacceptable and a failure on kerr
Dubs were spoiled for years with 3 defensively switchable distributors -- Dray, Iggy & sdot. That explains the failure to develop a single point guard in the decade since Curry was drafted, relying instead on league minimum guys like Cook etc to hold down that 3d PG spot.
More of a front office failure, IMO. There's no other qualified ball handlers on the roster. Wanamaker was their entire plan at backup PG.
Sure, we're going to give Poole and/or Mannion a shot based on how bad Wanamaker has been, but there's more desperation to this than real planning.
I think they really thought that secondary ball handling duties could be handled by offense initiators like Oubre, Wiggins, or Paschall. I feel like finding a good backup point guard is becoming as hard as starting center used to be for the Warriors
I think Chriss was actually going to be a major hub for the 2nd unit. Counting on him to be the screen, roll and pass threat with a variety of those ballhandlers.
If Shaun's still worried about his knees, I hear there's a Brazillian guy in SF who can play
I wouldn't call it a failure so much as rotten luck. Don't forget that the timing of Klay's injury -- before FA -- severely limited who Meyers could sign. None of the players he had targeted when the Dubs were still considered contenders were interested after Klay's injury. Thus we ended up with Brad and didn't even land a center.
Yeah - it wasn’t easy. I understand the constraints. I’m just saying Wanamaker playing x amount of minutes has more to do with roster building vs Kerrs decision making.
Pretty sure Kerr's goal is to win the season, not win the first half of the season. It takes time to figure out rotations/lineups/etc. Patience.
That's the point: Wanamaker obviously wasn't helping the team win -- this season or next. While some have been preaching patience, Wanamaker was heavily contributing to the team's loses. Also, Kerr is overly-diplomatic and PC, almost to a fault. He would never say anything negative about a player in public. But you can be sure that he and Meyers have been looking into ways to upgrade the backup PG position from the start. It would be negligence on their part if they weren't.
Oubre is the cautionary tale here, but I lean towards agreeing. On the other hand, if Wanamaker ever regressed to his career mean for shooting it would be an epic run that would definitely make his contribution a whole lot more positive
Even if Wanamaker found his 3pt shot again, he seems like another player that really needs to play with Curry/Green to be a positive contributor on offense, which isn't what we supposedly signed him for.
It's weird too, because his per36 assist numbers look good, but I just don't see him making many "point" plays. Like, his PnR and dribble drive abilities don't look threatening at all, and he's unable to make 3s even at the low volume he takes them.
I guess he reminds me of shorter version of the old, worn out Iguodala from 2018-2019. Iguodala was a great secondary playermaker/passer, but trying to use Iguodala to initiate as a PnR ballhandler was not setting up for success.
Though, even worn out Iguodala wasn't quite the negative on offense that Wanamaker has been though.
Wanamaker can at least hit FTs though, I guess?
His three ball has really fallen off this year, but a bigger concern is his inability to finish near the rim. Anyone have Wanamaker's shooting percentage in the paint?
> I just don't see him making many "point" plays
None of his plays ever stick out. There's nothing flashy to it (which is probably why his TOs are low), he just makes the correct simple plays. He's not blowing by defenders and making the defense collapse. A lot of times it's just making a move to get the defense to react and then making the quick read to get it to the guy whose defender is slightly sagging off.
Not saying this is enough. We certainly need him to be a threat to score but that's where his assists are coming from. I think we've all been spoiled by Iguodala and SDot these years and kind of take these skills for granted but we really don't have a lot of options on this roster...
Right, but in Oubre's case it was *mostly* a matter of when, not if. There's a reason Boston didn't pick up Brad's option. Brad's deficiencies span not just shooting, but also playmaking. He seems to have forgotten how to be a PG. But yeah, totally, I'm still rooting for him to return to his baseline. It's what's best for him and especially the team. On the other hand, I'm stoked to see Nico dish out dimes galore (along with plenty of TOs lol).
Actually I'm guessing Kerr has a mandate to win NEXT season. This year is his to learn, tinker, adjust and train for next year's success when the team will have more ammo.
Then why take so long to play poole over wannamaker?
Neither of those players is going to do much for you and it takes time to see what you have in a player on a new team.
The track record of both players would suggest strongly that Wanamaker is the better option at this point.
the defense is a real thing, and I'm guessing that's where the Warriors main concern is. Kerr's been REAL vocal about this being a defensively-minded squad first and foremost.
Also, it's a crowded position: the semi-primary ball handler on the bench. Iguodala and Liv and David West sort of person that can steer everything. Oddly, I've been thinking lately that it might be Looney, the glue guy, next season with Wiseman as the starter.
Might that not be a combination of Looney & JTA...
If tomorrow was a must win game, I'd just play Bazemore/Lee/Oubre/Wiggins/JTA, and try to win the second unit minutes with defense and transition.
Personally, I think this unit with Quinn Cook at PG would work well (perhaps swapping Bazemore and Lee). Cook's defense sucks but the other guys are strong defenders which limits the damage, and offensively I think it would actually be a well-spaced lineup given JTA's surprising ability to hit catch and shoot threes.
But I've always been a Cook fan, whereas I know many Warrior fans are jaded by the 2019 Finals.
Looney doesn't quite have the hands for it. Not talking about his weak dribbling skills (and his court vision is decent), but too many balls get flubbed/juggled by him. Even when he doesn't lose the ball, he still doesn't catch & pass it very cleanly. I like his game a lot, but I think the "point-forward" spot is a big reach for him.