The hardest thing is not knowing the 2021 abilities of their current roster. If Looney returns to 2018 form (and improves his shooting, which was hyped before he got hurt last fall), he's a great piece of the puzzle. And we still really don't know how Wiggins will do surrounded by talent - can he improve his performance by learning his role and not having to be the star? If so, the talent is there as well as some serious length.
There's been very little reference to Smiley in this thread. I agree that he's still rough and needs some seasoning, but he has the potential to be that big body in 2-3 years that lots of folks think is missing here. Outside of picking up Robinson in a trade, we really can't expect to pick up an NBA-ready big, particularly if we're looking to do so via the draft.
For my money, I'd be really happy with the Bulls trade (#2 for Sato and #4). We'd get a very capable two-way wing and a pretty decent pick with a slightly lower cap hit.
Why does everyone seem to be forgetting that Chriss was not just an NBA level starter by the end of last season but an actual legitimate force. Far fewer defensive failures seeking blocks, great catch and finish radius: not just a high finishing % but also caught passes that would have been turnovers for other players. Good passing as well. Everything the Warriors need in a big. Anything that reduces his minutes next year will not be advantageous for the win column in my opinion. Right now a healthy Looney would make the Warriors big rotation: Green, Chriss, Looney, & Paschall - That’s a lot of guys who I’d like to see play major minutes! The Warriors guard rotation is Curry, Klay, Poole, Lee - That’s two guys I’d like to see play the last 2 minutes of blowouts only.
The Warriors SF rotation is Wiggins & all the G league players the Warriors tried out last year en route to the top chance at a top 5 pick.
So what would you really prioritize this off season for the Warriors?
I wonder if the focus shouldn't be on any of these players but the pick. I like any of these trades better if we trade our pick for someone's *2021 1st pick*, especially since our #2 pick may not improve anyone next year.
Along those lines, I like the Knicks trade best, it seems they may still suck next year even with Ball/Wiseman. Can we make a deal with Cleveland?
The big exception is Smart. Since he's a quality player, that trade takes on a different dimension.
Marcus Smart + 14th or Mitchell Robinson + 8th are both packages I’d give up the 2nd pick for.
I’m not convinced Boston or NY would be interested. I’m sure Boston wants a big that can help now and Wiseman is not likely that player. I’d bet they want Turner and won’t let Smart go for less.
The Warriors have three needs. A 3&D wing who can play significant minutes against LeBron, a big who can play significant minutes against AD, and a guard who can run the offense and has good peripheral D. If one of these positions is considered a borderline or emerging star, the other two positions can be filled at “aging vet” level.
Despite those (surprising for me) +/- stats, I consider Smart a borderline star and he would be the answer to limiting minutes for both Steph and Klay as he could replace either with a change in our look without a major drop in talent. He could also be on the floor as part of a small ball death lineup against most teams. Heck, he could even rotate onto LeBron as part of a platoon D without being completely run over. He is a mini Iguodala and would fit into the Warriors system hand in glove.
The Robinson package has the advantage of coming with the 8th where some good Ws matches are likely to still be available (Vassell and Haliburton). I haven’t seen him play as much as I’ve watched Smart but it sounds like he would solve the need, long term, for a big that fits with what the Ws need (big, strong rim runner developing a peripheral game) right away.
With or without either of these two, we need a strong wing and one way or another should be angling for Covington or Gordon or Gallinari or A. Gordon or G. Robinson...
All in all, I believe a “big” is the lesser need as the W’s small-ball style can probably manage with Dray, Kevan, and Chriss, especially if they somehow get a strong wing like Gordon from Orlando. Getting Smart into the rotation would support what the Ws do best. Assuming also adding a decent wing, Smart puts us over the top.
Marcus Smart seems like the best return on the pick for me. Smart can play the Iguodala role perhaps even better (great switchable defender, not great on offense but his 3 point % is trending the right way and he's a capable passer and ballhandler and got great BBIQ). I think focusing on defense is pretty good in general when it comes to roster construction; Steph and Klay on the floor pretty much guarantee a good offense, especially when surrounded by solid-good passers who fit well into KerrBall. Sure, teams can help off Dray if they want too, but the Warriors can scheme around that too once we have Steph (have Dray screen for Steph or Klay, for example) and Dray is elite at punishing the 4-on-3s which Steph forces.
I still don't see the Celtics accepting though, even if they don't give up the #14 back. They've tried going in for the draft haul all the time, but they've still not reached the Finals for a decade, so I don't see them dumping a key piece right now, especially given how weak this draft is. If they do put Smart up on the trading block, though, I hope we go all-in for him, since there's been a lot of grumbling from Lacob about the cap, and I have to assume that Smart will be the most expensive option, especially when factoring in his extension.
Can someone explain to me the Markkanen love? Seems pretty one dimensional to me, a soft 7 footer who can't defend or pass, shooting is plus but not elite... are we banking on an uptick in 3p%? I suppose Bertans for the MLE is a pipe dream, but I'd be way more excited about that.
Lot of these options seem good. I'm not as into the Rob/Ntilikina/8 as I am with keeping the #2 to draft Wiseman at this point. I think the combination of young potential stars and vet rotation players fills our needs for the short and long term.
Hardest part of making these decisions is we have so little to go in how our current guys fit as a healthy team. Is Wiggins + Klay a real thing? No idea! Is Quese + Steph explosive enough on offense to make up for their defensive flaws? Hard to say! Is Looney still maturing, or have we seen his peak already? I hope he's got more.
One thing that's for certain is that there will be a lot fewer minutes for guys at the edges of the roster like JTA, Bowman, Mulder, Poole, Smiley, even Damion Lee. Probably a couple of those guys are back on two-way contracts and/or playing mostly in Santa Cruz, but Kerr is enough of a tinkerer that he'll likely find opportunities for them to show up in real minutes of real games (assuming we even have real games again, ugh...) so that's got to be more appealing than ending up on certain teams and watching, say, Thibs wear out his top guys night in and night out.
Not super sold on picking up Markkanan; feels like too much of a gamble. Satoransky is much preferable IMO, both because he seems more of a sure thing and because Markkanen's positional fit is a bit redundant with some high-upside dudes we already have (including, weirdly, Draymond). This draft has a lot of pretty OK guys so the difference between #4 and #8 overall isn't too big, but #2 is still a much better chance at a franchise cornerstone. So I'm not excited to trade down just so we can try our luck a guy who ends up being, like, a Cauley-Stein.
I would take that Mitchell Robinson + 8th trade in a fucking heartbeat. He averages 15 points and 3 blocks per 36 minutes giving us much-needed rim protection while also allowing us to grab Vassel/Nesmith to give us shooting/defense on the perimeter. It's a best-case scenario for sure in my opinion.
Would you guys do the #2 pick and Wiggins for someone like Brandon Ingram and maybe a future pick swap? I just read an old article suggesting Brandon Ingram was someone the dubs were interested in. I could see the pelicans valuing a draft pick over a young talent since they are rebuilding.
Satoransky would be a good backup PG. Size, passing, and shooting would be an upgrade over what we have. He seems defensive minded and definitely has upside. His salary is $10M. Can the Warriors pay that kind of money and not use the TE or MLE? With the pick, maybe we could throw in Poole to make the #'s work better. We would then have to go for a SG to play next to him. With a guy like Haliburton, they could make an interesting pairing off the bench.
Markkanen has good size but is not really a PF or C. He plays more like an SF. In the games I've seen him play, I wasn't taken with him. He can shoot the 3 but it's hard to see the Warriors going for him. Not athletic enough.
No on Ntilikina.
Robinson is more intriguing to me. A real C with rim protection, cheap. This one + swapping picks, still puts us in a good position to get someone useful like Okongwu or some others like Vassell, Williams, & Okoro.
All this hurts my head to think about. The Warriors have so many options to take. I like trading the pick ++ rather than just keeping it, although Lamelo is really intriguing and could be a future star for us. We'll see.
that Markkanen trade is tempting but I still want to gamble on Wiseman tbh. You don't get guys with his size that can dribble, even in Instagram videos. His lefty jumper looks too nice to pass on imo. Any concerns about his defense are assuaged (imo) by playing under Ron Adams, and next to Draymond Green. He'll learn. But you can't teach hands, and James' hands look soft
I worry that as Satoransky's 3PAs go up, his 3P% goes down.
I also worry if we accumulate too many player, Ntilikina would now be joining Wiggins, who we hope can live up to their potential.
Ryan Anderson/Mark isn't so bad on offense, but his 3P% has also dropped every year. And if Draymond has to spend all his time on defensive tutorials (Wiggins, Paschall, now Markk), he's gonna be real tired.
Wiseman might be close to Robinson from the start.
Smart pretty great as 6th man spelling Steph. Lots better than Ball
With the potential salary cap troubles do you think there will be opportunities to scalp cheap franchises for helpful players and picks? I keep seeing the Sixers trying to save $$ by giving away Horford and picks for an expiring.
Many of these are dreams! I actually like most of these trades for the Warriors and think any of these would be better for a team so severely lacking depth than going for a star.
The hardest thing is not knowing the 2021 abilities of their current roster. If Looney returns to 2018 form (and improves his shooting, which was hyped before he got hurt last fall), he's a great piece of the puzzle. And we still really don't know how Wiggins will do surrounded by talent - can he improve his performance by learning his role and not having to be the star? If so, the talent is there as well as some serious length.
There's been very little reference to Smiley in this thread. I agree that he's still rough and needs some seasoning, but he has the potential to be that big body in 2-3 years that lots of folks think is missing here. Outside of picking up Robinson in a trade, we really can't expect to pick up an NBA-ready big, particularly if we're looking to do so via the draft.
For my money, I'd be really happy with the Bulls trade (#2 for Sato and #4). We'd get a very capable two-way wing and a pretty decent pick with a slightly lower cap hit.
Okay I wanna play: Paschall + #2 for Mikal Bridges + #10
Why does everyone seem to be forgetting that Chriss was not just an NBA level starter by the end of last season but an actual legitimate force. Far fewer defensive failures seeking blocks, great catch and finish radius: not just a high finishing % but also caught passes that would have been turnovers for other players. Good passing as well. Everything the Warriors need in a big. Anything that reduces his minutes next year will not be advantageous for the win column in my opinion. Right now a healthy Looney would make the Warriors big rotation: Green, Chriss, Looney, & Paschall - That’s a lot of guys who I’d like to see play major minutes! The Warriors guard rotation is Curry, Klay, Poole, Lee - That’s two guys I’d like to see play the last 2 minutes of blowouts only.
The Warriors SF rotation is Wiggins & all the G league players the Warriors tried out last year en route to the top chance at a top 5 pick.
So what would you really prioritize this off season for the Warriors?
I wonder if the focus shouldn't be on any of these players but the pick. I like any of these trades better if we trade our pick for someone's *2021 1st pick*, especially since our #2 pick may not improve anyone next year.
Along those lines, I like the Knicks trade best, it seems they may still suck next year even with Ball/Wiseman. Can we make a deal with Cleveland?
The big exception is Smart. Since he's a quality player, that trade takes on a different dimension.
Marcus Smart + 14th or Mitchell Robinson + 8th are both packages I’d give up the 2nd pick for.
I’m not convinced Boston or NY would be interested. I’m sure Boston wants a big that can help now and Wiseman is not likely that player. I’d bet they want Turner and won’t let Smart go for less.
The Warriors have three needs. A 3&D wing who can play significant minutes against LeBron, a big who can play significant minutes against AD, and a guard who can run the offense and has good peripheral D. If one of these positions is considered a borderline or emerging star, the other two positions can be filled at “aging vet” level.
Despite those (surprising for me) +/- stats, I consider Smart a borderline star and he would be the answer to limiting minutes for both Steph and Klay as he could replace either with a change in our look without a major drop in talent. He could also be on the floor as part of a small ball death lineup against most teams. Heck, he could even rotate onto LeBron as part of a platoon D without being completely run over. He is a mini Iguodala and would fit into the Warriors system hand in glove.
The Robinson package has the advantage of coming with the 8th where some good Ws matches are likely to still be available (Vassell and Haliburton). I haven’t seen him play as much as I’ve watched Smart but it sounds like he would solve the need, long term, for a big that fits with what the Ws need (big, strong rim runner developing a peripheral game) right away.
With or without either of these two, we need a strong wing and one way or another should be angling for Covington or Gordon or Gallinari or A. Gordon or G. Robinson...
All in all, I believe a “big” is the lesser need as the W’s small-ball style can probably manage with Dray, Kevan, and Chriss, especially if they somehow get a strong wing like Gordon from Orlando. Getting Smart into the rotation would support what the Ws do best. Assuming also adding a decent wing, Smart puts us over the top.
Marcus Smart seems like the best return on the pick for me. Smart can play the Iguodala role perhaps even better (great switchable defender, not great on offense but his 3 point % is trending the right way and he's a capable passer and ballhandler and got great BBIQ). I think focusing on defense is pretty good in general when it comes to roster construction; Steph and Klay on the floor pretty much guarantee a good offense, especially when surrounded by solid-good passers who fit well into KerrBall. Sure, teams can help off Dray if they want too, but the Warriors can scheme around that too once we have Steph (have Dray screen for Steph or Klay, for example) and Dray is elite at punishing the 4-on-3s which Steph forces.
I still don't see the Celtics accepting though, even if they don't give up the #14 back. They've tried going in for the draft haul all the time, but they've still not reached the Finals for a decade, so I don't see them dumping a key piece right now, especially given how weak this draft is. If they do put Smart up on the trading block, though, I hope we go all-in for him, since there's been a lot of grumbling from Lacob about the cap, and I have to assume that Smart will be the most expensive option, especially when factoring in his extension.
Can someone explain to me the Markkanen love? Seems pretty one dimensional to me, a soft 7 footer who can't defend or pass, shooting is plus but not elite... are we banking on an uptick in 3p%? I suppose Bertans for the MLE is a pipe dream, but I'd be way more excited about that.
Lot of these options seem good. I'm not as into the Rob/Ntilikina/8 as I am with keeping the #2 to draft Wiseman at this point. I think the combination of young potential stars and vet rotation players fills our needs for the short and long term.
Hardest part of making these decisions is we have so little to go in how our current guys fit as a healthy team. Is Wiggins + Klay a real thing? No idea! Is Quese + Steph explosive enough on offense to make up for their defensive flaws? Hard to say! Is Looney still maturing, or have we seen his peak already? I hope he's got more.
One thing that's for certain is that there will be a lot fewer minutes for guys at the edges of the roster like JTA, Bowman, Mulder, Poole, Smiley, even Damion Lee. Probably a couple of those guys are back on two-way contracts and/or playing mostly in Santa Cruz, but Kerr is enough of a tinkerer that he'll likely find opportunities for them to show up in real minutes of real games (assuming we even have real games again, ugh...) so that's got to be more appealing than ending up on certain teams and watching, say, Thibs wear out his top guys night in and night out.
Not super sold on picking up Markkanan; feels like too much of a gamble. Satoransky is much preferable IMO, both because he seems more of a sure thing and because Markkanen's positional fit is a bit redundant with some high-upside dudes we already have (including, weirdly, Draymond). This draft has a lot of pretty OK guys so the difference between #4 and #8 overall isn't too big, but #2 is still a much better chance at a franchise cornerstone. So I'm not excited to trade down just so we can try our luck a guy who ends up being, like, a Cauley-Stein.
I would take that Mitchell Robinson + 8th trade in a fucking heartbeat. He averages 15 points and 3 blocks per 36 minutes giving us much-needed rim protection while also allowing us to grab Vassel/Nesmith to give us shooting/defense on the perimeter. It's a best-case scenario for sure in my opinion.
How come out of all the teams the Knicks have cough up the most for the #2 pick?
Would you guys do the #2 pick and Wiggins for someone like Brandon Ingram and maybe a future pick swap? I just read an old article suggesting Brandon Ingram was someone the dubs were interested in. I could see the pelicans valuing a draft pick over a young talent since they are rebuilding.
Satoransky would be a good backup PG. Size, passing, and shooting would be an upgrade over what we have. He seems defensive minded and definitely has upside. His salary is $10M. Can the Warriors pay that kind of money and not use the TE or MLE? With the pick, maybe we could throw in Poole to make the #'s work better. We would then have to go for a SG to play next to him. With a guy like Haliburton, they could make an interesting pairing off the bench.
Markkanen has good size but is not really a PF or C. He plays more like an SF. In the games I've seen him play, I wasn't taken with him. He can shoot the 3 but it's hard to see the Warriors going for him. Not athletic enough.
No on Ntilikina.
Robinson is more intriguing to me. A real C with rim protection, cheap. This one + swapping picks, still puts us in a good position to get someone useful like Okongwu or some others like Vassell, Williams, & Okoro.
All this hurts my head to think about. The Warriors have so many options to take. I like trading the pick ++ rather than just keeping it, although Lamelo is really intriguing and could be a future star for us. We'll see.
that Markkanen trade is tempting but I still want to gamble on Wiseman tbh. You don't get guys with his size that can dribble, even in Instagram videos. His lefty jumper looks too nice to pass on imo. Any concerns about his defense are assuaged (imo) by playing under Ron Adams, and next to Draymond Green. He'll learn. But you can't teach hands, and James' hands look soft
I worry that as Satoransky's 3PAs go up, his 3P% goes down.
I also worry if we accumulate too many player, Ntilikina would now be joining Wiggins, who we hope can live up to their potential.
Ryan Anderson/Mark isn't so bad on offense, but his 3P% has also dropped every year. And if Draymond has to spend all his time on defensive tutorials (Wiggins, Paschall, now Markk), he's gonna be real tired.
Wiseman might be close to Robinson from the start.
Smart pretty great as 6th man spelling Steph. Lots better than Ball
With the potential salary cap troubles do you think there will be opportunities to scalp cheap franchises for helpful players and picks? I keep seeing the Sixers trying to save $$ by giving away Horford and picks for an expiring.
Many of these are dreams! I actually like most of these trades for the Warriors and think any of these would be better for a team so severely lacking depth than going for a star.