Does anyone remember how quickly Marks had the Nets back in contention despite not having any draft picks? Yes the Celtics got their core out of that trade, but after 3 years the Nets were in the playoffs and such a desirable team that Kyrie and Durant went there to burn it down. Not having high draft picks to develop allowed them put hungry vets trying to solidify their spot in the league on the court together around a failed number 2 pick that they got in a a trade and that’s a playoff team. Put that around the Warriors core and that’s a ‘22 champion. We are basically back to the Kwame Brown years of drafting where the bad teams (Rockets) will stay bad forever as they try to develop one teenager after another in the kiddie league while teams like the Heat are putting men out there and making playoff runs most years.
Just wana say @Eric, your efforts not taking the off season off and staying in the gym getting up shots while the other Mods live it up in DNHCanQn is really impressing the FO and coaching staff. Big minutes and a Poole-sized contract extension are in the works. Don't be surprised to get a call up to Dunleavy's office.
Alright my timeline has me almost all in on Trayce Jackson Davis. If Lively still there at 19 you take him. If they trade back then yeah im ok with taking TJD but i hope they dont trade up and give up assets for Lively because theres a couple of players i like in top half of draft before Lively
TJD looks like he'd slot into their backup center role really quickly. Only reservation with him is that it's going to be tough for him to be a starter in the NBA, but I think he has the clearest route in terms of making an immediate impact. Brandon Clarke-esque.
I think Jaquez has a better chance to be a starter in the league but he also might be less immediately playable so I can't really tell who I prefer.
Still like him. I just have tiers and players i like to draft at the top pf those tiers. If we trade up then i like Ausar in that 4-17 range, if we stay put, i like Lively. If we trade back, the top of my end of 1st, beginning of 2nd tier is Jackson Jr from Connecticut (hell i may even like him as early as 23 if Sacramento wants our pick) but in that same tier I do like Jaquez with TJD coming on strong
The only realistic target id like for them to trade up for is Ausar Thompson thats it. I have everyone (Amen included but obviously not Top 3) in a similar enough range that if they were to stay put, im sure one of them were to fall to them. However if they do end up moving up out of their own volition I hope its not strictly for Lively because while I like Lively alot, giving up Poole and Kuminga to go get him would be giving up too much but again if they do end up moving up (but not all the way to 6 or eveb 8) i do like a couple of prospects ahead of Lively
I spent this afternoon going over the lottery picks a little more carefully. IMO, this is a deep draft with several players exhibiting NBA skills and athleticism. The Thompson Twins are definitely in the top 10, but there are others that the Warriors could target and trade up. If the Dubs decide that packaging Kuminga plus our pick is the way to go, there are some players I wouldn't mind on our team with some looking more ready than JFK. Looking at Spinella's mock draft from #2 through #11, Gradea Dick(Sorry, couldn't help myself), there could be a case made for every player slotting into the Warriors system. An impressive group, with Lively my least favorite, but a player of need. I wouldn't be unhappy with any of these guys.
What’s interesting is that i was looking at Sam Vecenies draft guide this morning and he has players rated into tiers. And his first big tier like mine cut off at pick 17. He has Lively as the 10th best player but Nick Smith all the way back to 23rd best player so obviously my list doesn’t match his (he also has Clowney way too high at 21 IMO)
the interesting thing is that his next tier goes all the way back to 34 which is what I have been saying that unless someone is in that tier after the top 3 , the Warriors need to actively be looking about trading back
A much more fluid athlete. He is a bonafide SF in this league. Ability to be a solid team defender from Day one. Doesn’t have thr elite
Court vision his brother has but what he does is a workable jump shot that can be more immediately tweaked. Again positional versatility if ur looking to trade up. I think Ausur will eventually be strong enough to cover 4s in this league yet fluid enough to guard guards
This is the kind of answer I was looking for. Unless something crazy behind the scenes is happening, kuminga, moody, and Poole should have much improved seasons.
I'm also excited to see what we have in PBJ. His shot is so clean.
One way or another, this is gonna be an interesting season and I'm here for it
PBJ has no complete game that I can see. The 3 ball is the only thing I've seen a glimmer of hope for. Maybe I'll be surprised but most players usually demonstrate a range of skills that might be improved on. No paint or playmaking skills. Seems to avoid contact.
Eye test, I feel like PBJ has potential to be a better passer with better feel for the game than MPJ (if the not quite the same lights out shooter and scorer). MPJ always strikes me as a little bit of a spazz when he isn’t shooting the ball. PBJ seems smoother to me with the ball, if a bit slow and unathletic.
There's no way you trade even Moody for a prospect. Guys who have shown they can at least be somewhat productive in the NBA are worth way more than draft prospects who may turn out to be busts. At least Moody, Poole and Kuminga show up to work, haven't started any stupid scandals, try to help the team, etc. Even if a prospect appears to have better skills, which itself is in question, I'll always take a proven player. I mean I wouldn't trade away a guy like Cameron Payne for them even though he's obviously no Michael Jordan. He's just a real basketball player and that counts.
I keep coming back to Kerr who is the roadblock for these players. Even when Moody and Kuminga are on the floor, they are at best option #3 offensively. They are not going to be developed until we get past this WIN NOW period. Poole is the only one who could break into the starting lineup if Kerr can dig deep in himself to innovate more. Otherwise, we will see more of the same as last season unless they acquire some other talent somehow. Those 3 guys have been model bench guys that stay ready to play. But, Kuminga + #19 and take Ausar Thompson, I'm in. That's a trade up in my book.
I do not think Steve Kerr is a roadblock for Poole, Kuminga, or Moody.
If the team wants to take advantage of Steph Curry's "prime", which seems reasonable, and desirable from many fans, then the coach needs to make decisions that may not give younger players the developmental opportunities that otherwise would happen. Unfortunately that did not work out so well this past season. I'm not sure giving up on Kuminga and #19 to trade up will really change that dynamic.
It's all on Kerr which is what I'm saying. I'm not thinking that he doesn't want them developed or thinks they cannot develop. For ex: He said Kuminga's path lies in his ability to rebound the ball effectively. But if he doesn't get the playing time to actuate it, it's because of Kerr and his focus. There has to be a window opened up more than a crack to get a good breeze flowing. Mistakes have to be made and Kerr needs the courage to do it. Could also be the newbies get frozen out. That's a thing, you know.
OTOH, Kuminga is the only post player with the ability too score down low. If he misses some opportunities, he must play through those, not sit on the bench stewing. I don't believe Kerr shows him enough confidence. He is the only player on the team that doesn't just slot into a position. Is he a 4 or a 3? He should be both depending on the matchups.
The problem is that a lot of people think "Win During Curry's Window" = "Don't Play The Young Guns." This position ignores that the core is aging and the payroll prohibits acquisition of top veteran talent. With those constraints, the only viable path to a title is to develop the young guns early in the season so by the All-Star break you have a cheap, capable bench. That was the plan last year and Kerr panicked 10 games in and pulled the plug. And so, here we are: the FO uncertain about what they have in JK (and Moody, playoff high notwithstanding); the looming CBA is making low-cost, high quality vet acquisition not just hard but in some cases impossible; and Curry, Klay, and Dray are a nominal year older (which, in your thirties, is more than a year in terms of health/reliability/consistency).
Have to side w Chadara here. I think Kerr slowed the development of the young guys in the playoffs, but definitely accelerated it as best he could in the regular season.
But I would not trade Kuminga for Anyone Thompson for reasons stated above.
If I have Devin Booker, why would I be looking for Bradley Beal? Isn't that a low-rent duplicate? You'd think they'd want some depth at wing, and some defense. Guys I think they should be targeting would be maybe a guy like Mikal Bridges, maybe Cameron Johnson for depth, that type of guy.
With 30m CP3 and no draft picks, you can't expect to get what you actually want. Their shopping list is "what are the overpaid negative assets on the market that a team is willing to give up for nothing, but has some chance to help us". Beal I think fits the bill, as he should make them a bit better than 39 y/o Paul. To get that perhaps slight upgrade they gave up 4 years of cap hell, but if their primary goal was to improve this year's chance of success at all costs, I can believe it being their best attainable option.
Edit: not to ignore your good underlying point -- it is a good question whether Booker, Beal, Bridges, Cam Johnson, Ayton, Shamet, +all their future draft assets in tact is preferable to their current situation with KD (Booker, Beal, KD, Ayton +no one and no future tradable assets). I can't lie, the former sounds better to me if I were a Suns fan. But, the KD trade has been done, which means they need to go all out winning while he can still play, so their hands are pretty tied.
[Gambadoro] Other teams that I have spoken too are just floored that the Suns got Beal for salary dump - one said it was Insane what the Wizards just did. They can't understand why Washington did not do what Brooklyn did with KD and just wait it out for a better deal.
He was/is under contract, though. They could have tried to improve the team more, and if it didn't work, maybe tank and see if Beal would waive the NTC or maybe at least widen his potential landing spots.
[edit: they couldn't get a decent return this year, but why not wait? Are they really that close to contention? Worst thing that happens, they're stuck in mediocrity for another year, but they could have still made the playoffs with a move or two, and with or wthout Beal, they're not making the 2nd round anyway.]
The buzz is that WAS loves Anthony Black and wants to draft him and rebuild around him. I don't exactly see why this means trading Beal early but the whole thing perplexes me.
That's a good feeling. I'm laughed when I heard the trade. Sure, they will win their fair share of regular season games, but this has bust written all over it. HOWEVER, if they can flip Ayton for the right pieces ... they'll be a pain.
Beal vs Paul? Really any difference? Both miss time, Paul more so in the PS, but at least understands D. Does Beal? I see why they want to move on from Paul but Beal?
This could be VERY annoying for our battle for good minimum players, the way the damned Lakers and Nets sucked up all the top free agents in 2021-22. Obviously we made it work :D
[Hayes] The Washington Wizards are likely to reroute Chris Paul in a trade and the Los Angeles Clippers are expected to pursue a reunion with the future Hall of Famer, league sources tell @NBAonTNT, @BleacherReport.
He’s been blogging / reporting for years now. But I’ve not known him as a news breaker with lots of inside sources. So I’m guessing he has indeed heard this from people around the league, but they might not be primary sources (as in GMs or high staff that have directly heard offers from the Warriors).
Does anyone remember how quickly Marks had the Nets back in contention despite not having any draft picks? Yes the Celtics got their core out of that trade, but after 3 years the Nets were in the playoffs and such a desirable team that Kyrie and Durant went there to burn it down. Not having high draft picks to develop allowed them put hungry vets trying to solidify their spot in the league on the court together around a failed number 2 pick that they got in a a trade and that’s a playoff team. Put that around the Warriors core and that’s a ‘22 champion. We are basically back to the Kwame Brown years of drafting where the bad teams (Rockets) will stay bad forever as they try to develop one teenager after another in the kiddie league while teams like the Heat are putting men out there and making playoff runs most years.
Just wana say @Eric, your efforts not taking the off season off and staying in the gym getting up shots while the other Mods live it up in DNHCanQn is really impressing the FO and coaching staff. Big minutes and a Poole-sized contract extension are in the works. Don't be surprised to get a call up to Dunleavy's office.
I’m seeing if I can go strong through Summer League and free agency and then maybe take some time off to recharge before preseason.
So much talking.
Warriors win 2024 title, 'cause reasons. Everything everbody is talking about works out.
Sincerely, Tealstradamus
Why do I get the feeling DDV will decline his P.O. as expected but he’ll end up going to PHO on the same deal.
How do they sign him? With the Beal trade, they are over the second apron. No more MLE for them.
He's a gold digger?
They can’t afford him at this point
EDIT: They = The Suns
Wouldn’t work for the Suns
Oof yeah they'd want him for sure.
Alright my timeline has me almost all in on Trayce Jackson Davis. If Lively still there at 19 you take him. If they trade back then yeah im ok with taking TJD but i hope they dont trade up and give up assets for Lively because theres a couple of players i like in top half of draft before Lively
TJD looks like he'd slot into their backup center role really quickly. Only reservation with him is that it's going to be tough for him to be a starter in the NBA, but I think he has the clearest route in terms of making an immediate impact. Brandon Clarke-esque.
I think Jaquez has a better chance to be a starter in the league but he also might be less immediately playable so I can't really tell who I prefer.
What happened to Jaquez?
Still like him. I just have tiers and players i like to draft at the top pf those tiers. If we trade up then i like Ausar in that 4-17 range, if we stay put, i like Lively. If we trade back, the top of my end of 1st, beginning of 2nd tier is Jackson Jr from Connecticut (hell i may even like him as early as 23 if Sacramento wants our pick) but in that same tier I do like Jaquez with TJD coming on strong
Jaquez can do more things than Lively. Me, I'd take the BPA.
What if they trade up for someone you like more? Down with that or not down to trade kuminga for those prospects?
The only realistic target id like for them to trade up for is Ausar Thompson thats it. I have everyone (Amen included but obviously not Top 3) in a similar enough range that if they were to stay put, im sure one of them were to fall to them. However if they do end up moving up out of their own volition I hope its not strictly for Lively because while I like Lively alot, giving up Poole and Kuminga to go get him would be giving up too much but again if they do end up moving up (but not all the way to 6 or eveb 8) i do like a couple of prospects ahead of Lively
I spent this afternoon going over the lottery picks a little more carefully. IMO, this is a deep draft with several players exhibiting NBA skills and athleticism. The Thompson Twins are definitely in the top 10, but there are others that the Warriors could target and trade up. If the Dubs decide that packaging Kuminga plus our pick is the way to go, there are some players I wouldn't mind on our team with some looking more ready than JFK. Looking at Spinella's mock draft from #2 through #11, Gradea Dick(Sorry, couldn't help myself), there could be a case made for every player slotting into the Warriors system. An impressive group, with Lively my least favorite, but a player of need. I wouldn't be unhappy with any of these guys.
What’s interesting is that i was looking at Sam Vecenies draft guide this morning and he has players rated into tiers. And his first big tier like mine cut off at pick 17. He has Lively as the 10th best player but Nick Smith all the way back to 23rd best player so obviously my list doesn’t match his (he also has Clowney way too high at 21 IMO)
the interesting thing is that his next tier goes all the way back to 34 which is what I have been saying that unless someone is in that tier after the top 3 , the Warriors need to actively be looking about trading back
I don't get it. I watched some Ausur Thompson clips. His ceiling looks like Kuminga.
Way more versatile, polished, with better BBIQ. That is Kuminga if developed as an SF.
A much more fluid athlete. He is a bonafide SF in this league. Ability to be a solid team defender from Day one. Doesn’t have thr elite
Court vision his brother has but what he does is a workable jump shot that can be more immediately tweaked. Again positional versatility if ur looking to trade up. I think Ausur will eventually be strong enough to cover 4s in this league yet fluid enough to guard guards
This is the kind of answer I was looking for. Unless something crazy behind the scenes is happening, kuminga, moody, and Poole should have much improved seasons.
I'm also excited to see what we have in PBJ. His shot is so clean.
One way or another, this is gonna be an interesting season and I'm here for it
PBJ has no complete game that I can see. The 3 ball is the only thing I've seen a glimmer of hope for. Maybe I'll be surprised but most players usually demonstrate a range of skills that might be improved on. No paint or playmaking skills. Seems to avoid contact.
He’s smooth at moving on time on both offense and defense. He’s a good decision maker when choosing to shoot pass or attack. Just good game feel.
I see your point but see no evidence, yet.
Eye test, I feel like PBJ has potential to be a better passer with better feel for the game than MPJ (if the not quite the same lights out shooter and scorer). MPJ always strikes me as a little bit of a spazz when he isn’t shooting the ball. PBJ seems smoother to me with the ball, if a bit slow and unathletic.
There's no way you trade even Moody for a prospect. Guys who have shown they can at least be somewhat productive in the NBA are worth way more than draft prospects who may turn out to be busts. At least Moody, Poole and Kuminga show up to work, haven't started any stupid scandals, try to help the team, etc. Even if a prospect appears to have better skills, which itself is in question, I'll always take a proven player. I mean I wouldn't trade away a guy like Cameron Payne for them even though he's obviously no Michael Jordan. He's just a real basketball player and that counts.
I keep coming back to Kerr who is the roadblock for these players. Even when Moody and Kuminga are on the floor, they are at best option #3 offensively. They are not going to be developed until we get past this WIN NOW period. Poole is the only one who could break into the starting lineup if Kerr can dig deep in himself to innovate more. Otherwise, we will see more of the same as last season unless they acquire some other talent somehow. Those 3 guys have been model bench guys that stay ready to play. But, Kuminga + #19 and take Ausar Thompson, I'm in. That's a trade up in my book.
I do not think Steve Kerr is a roadblock for Poole, Kuminga, or Moody.
If the team wants to take advantage of Steph Curry's "prime", which seems reasonable, and desirable from many fans, then the coach needs to make decisions that may not give younger players the developmental opportunities that otherwise would happen. Unfortunately that did not work out so well this past season. I'm not sure giving up on Kuminga and #19 to trade up will really change that dynamic.
It's all on Kerr which is what I'm saying. I'm not thinking that he doesn't want them developed or thinks they cannot develop. For ex: He said Kuminga's path lies in his ability to rebound the ball effectively. But if he doesn't get the playing time to actuate it, it's because of Kerr and his focus. There has to be a window opened up more than a crack to get a good breeze flowing. Mistakes have to be made and Kerr needs the courage to do it. Could also be the newbies get frozen out. That's a thing, you know.
OTOH, Kuminga is the only post player with the ability too score down low. If he misses some opportunities, he must play through those, not sit on the bench stewing. I don't believe Kerr shows him enough confidence. He is the only player on the team that doesn't just slot into a position. Is he a 4 or a 3? He should be both depending on the matchups.
The problem is that a lot of people think "Win During Curry's Window" = "Don't Play The Young Guns." This position ignores that the core is aging and the payroll prohibits acquisition of top veteran talent. With those constraints, the only viable path to a title is to develop the young guns early in the season so by the All-Star break you have a cheap, capable bench. That was the plan last year and Kerr panicked 10 games in and pulled the plug. And so, here we are: the FO uncertain about what they have in JK (and Moody, playoff high notwithstanding); the looming CBA is making low-cost, high quality vet acquisition not just hard but in some cases impossible; and Curry, Klay, and Dray are a nominal year older (which, in your thirties, is more than a year in terms of health/reliability/consistency).
Have to side w Chadara here. I think Kerr slowed the development of the young guys in the playoffs, but definitely accelerated it as best he could in the regular season.
But I would not trade Kuminga for Anyone Thompson for reasons stated above.
Even if he doesn't fit into Kerr's. system?
If I have Devin Booker, why would I be looking for Bradley Beal? Isn't that a low-rent duplicate? You'd think they'd want some depth at wing, and some defense. Guys I think they should be targeting would be maybe a guy like Mikal Bridges, maybe Cameron Johnson for depth, that type of guy.
With 30m CP3 and no draft picks, you can't expect to get what you actually want. Their shopping list is "what are the overpaid negative assets on the market that a team is willing to give up for nothing, but has some chance to help us". Beal I think fits the bill, as he should make them a bit better than 39 y/o Paul. To get that perhaps slight upgrade they gave up 4 years of cap hell, but if their primary goal was to improve this year's chance of success at all costs, I can believe it being their best attainable option.
Edit: not to ignore your good underlying point -- it is a good question whether Booker, Beal, Bridges, Cam Johnson, Ayton, Shamet, +all their future draft assets in tact is preferable to their current situation with KD (Booker, Beal, KD, Ayton +no one and no future tradable assets). I can't lie, the former sounds better to me if I were a Suns fan. But, the KD trade has been done, which means they need to go all out winning while he can still play, so their hands are pretty tied.
I see what you did there. And: totally agreed.
Agreed.
4 hours since the last big trade . . .
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/373/328/b16.jpg
"Good news everyone, the Washington Wizards may be a playoff team in 3001." - the Professor.
Can we raid the Wizards in their moment of weakness?
> their moment of weakness
You mean 1977-present?
Just present tense. I'm not sharp enough to think back to that period of time.
[Robbins] Guard Jordan Goodwin has been told he’s likely being included in the Wizards-Suns trade, a league source told @TheAthleticNBA
Maybe a sign that CP3-to-somewhere-else is progressing?
The more I hear of this trade, the more it feels like an epic heist
(Disregarding the potential roster fit)
Suns become a 2nd apron team. The kiss of death in the NBA.
Tell me about it. They are getting Jordan Goodwin for free?!?
Man if the 3rd pick is in play for Porzingis to Portland, id do that deal over anything the Warriors realistically have to offer 10 out of 10 times
That's insane, maybe it was part of a Beal trade proposal.
[Gambadoro] Other teams that I have spoken too are just floored that the Suns got Beal for salary dump - one said it was Insane what the Wizards just did. They can't understand why Washington did not do what Brooklyn did with KD and just wait it out for a better deal.
... because Beale ha a no-trade clause and could veto every other 'better' deal?
This. I don't know why people are thinking the Wizards could do better.
Beal held all the cards. All they could do is not trade him, and Beal's made clear he likes DC.
He was/is under contract, though. They could have tried to improve the team more, and if it didn't work, maybe tank and see if Beal would waive the NTC or maybe at least widen his potential landing spots.
[edit: they couldn't get a decent return this year, but why not wait? Are they really that close to contention? Worst thing that happens, they're stuck in mediocrity for another year, but they could have still made the playoffs with a move or two, and with or wthout Beal, they're not making the 2nd round anyway.]
The buzz is that WAS loves Anthony Black and wants to draft him and rebuild around him. I don't exactly see why this means trading Beal early but the whole thing perplexes me.
They have a new president and new GM. My guess is that Leonsis wants to see something happen now. But, it's a fair question.
Good point, owner pressure could be a huge factor. The new GM is in a big hole with the fanbase already though haha.
Why do I get the feeling the Suns are never going to actually have any rings to show for this lol
That's a good feeling. I'm laughed when I heard the trade. Sure, they will win their fair share of regular season games, but this has bust written all over it. HOWEVER, if they can flip Ayton for the right pieces ... they'll be a pain.
Beal vs Paul? Really any difference? Both miss time, Paul more so in the PS, but at least understands D. Does Beal? I see why they want to move on from Paul but Beal?
How long before KD requests out of there?
This could be VERY annoying for our battle for good minimum players, the way the damned Lakers and Nets sucked up all the top free agents in 2021-22. Obviously we made it work :D
But still…
**
Suns under contract after this trade:
Deandre Ayton
Kevin Durant
Devin Booker
Bradley Beal
Cameron Payne
That's it. Those five players
https://twitter.com/keithsmithnba/status/1670532928797802496?s=61&t=P_FoYb59qpl6sz-fj5Z51g
They’re payroll at ~160 next season right now, just under the tax line.
Will be interesting to see how they round things out. For reference, if Draymond opts in, we’ll be at a hair over 200.
The CBA is finally going to work against another team, so progress, I guess? On a serious note, I hope they cut Biyombo.
[Hayes] The Washington Wizards are likely to reroute Chris Paul in a trade and the Los Angeles Clippers are expected to pursue a reunion with the future Hall of Famer, league sources tell @NBAonTNT, @BleacherReport.
hmm, Morris, maybe Batum or Gordon?
This is all going to end up with Russell Westbrook in a Warrior uniform, isn't it.
That move would make a ton of sense for the Clippers though, they've lacked a "floor general" type PG.
Westbrook on a vet min, I'm in.
Westbrook probably couldn't PAY the Dubs enough for them to let him on the team.
I know you're joking, but please never say that ever again. TY.
If it's on a min, Suns, back to Clippers, maybe even Heat before GSW maybe. Would be great for 2nd-unit regular-season offense, though.
https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/nba/golden-state-warriors/warriors-news/report-warriors-interested-in-trading-up-to-draft-lively/1634551/
This is a monkey's paw situation. Like, "we will grant you Lively as you wished...but it will cost you Kuminga"
Forget Lively. Warriors will never go for another big guy in the draft, ever again. Never.
What's up with announcing who you are targeting? I miss Nellie blowing smoke before the draft.
Agreed...unless this is them blowing smoke
Sigh… the good ol days of late May… when Lively was mocked to be available for just one pick at 19 by almost all ‘experts’.
Does Matt Moore have a history of having reliable intel? I've never heard of him.
He’s been blogging / reporting for years now. But I’ve not known him as a news breaker with lots of inside sources. So I’m guessing he has indeed heard this from people around the league, but they might not be primary sources (as in GMs or high staff that have directly heard offers from the Warriors).