Went to the Earthquakes game tonight. I do not watch their games in general, but seem like a frustrating team to be a fan for. Sounds not to dissimilar from the dubs SL squad, only they are not coming off a chip. I should mention though the atmosphere is fun and the stadium formerly known as Avaya is really cool.
Glad to see Quinones knocked down some shots in the box score. My lean-to is holding up strong, and I have found a supply of clean water less than a mile from my camp. So I can hang here on Isla de los Quinones for the rest of the summer no problem.
The Quakes are far better at generating and converting chances than they have been this past decade, but you can usually count on defensive brain farts to unravel the hard work.
Moody technically led Summer League in PPG. Pretty unfair to Cam Thomas though who lost out by mere percentage points while playing in three more games but fuck it, propaganda is propaganda.
In judging talent, most people make the mistake of looking at a player's skills in a vacuum, as if basketball was a one-on-one game. Wiseman can still bring immense value to the Warriors even if his game is limited, even if he doesn't meet everyone's expectations based on him being drafted 2nd. Wiggins has been with us for 2 1/2 years and he didn't really seal the deal (fans are ALL IN) until these playoffs, and he has been in the league for years,
I thought the value that Wiseman could bring now was pretty obvious. A young athletic big who can eat minutes against the plethora of bigs in this league. He doesn't have to be Dikembe Mutumbo. But every minute Wiseman has a body on Gobert, Jokic, Embiid, JJJ, etc, is a minute that Green or Looney isn't guarding them. Who thinks going another full season with Green (back issues) and Looney (already played 104 games last year) playing major minutes every night banging. Wiseman will have a negative plus/minus next year. Get over it. But maybe, if the guy gives us 20-24 a night, we get into next post-season and Green and Looney won't be trashed. The league is getting bigger and faster. The Warriors aren't going to keep winning Chips without closing the athletic gap. And having Wiseman is the best insurance we can have on the health of Green & Loon.
And remember when we had a vertical spacer? McGee? Remember how many easy freaking dunks he got. If Wiseman converts 80% of what McGee used to its a win. And when you combine East-West spacing with our shooters with a vertical spacer, and you got Draymond driving the lane, it's a whole new world.
Yeah he is going to suck sometimes and make boneheaded plays. But every player has value beyond their obvious skills or lack thereof. Its not Wiseman vs Ball or Ant Man. Or Wiseman vs. another versatile wing. Its about all the different roles he can play on our team and how they impact the team as a whole. I believe the FO has a real good idea about that value and that they are fully in on him.
Although it doesn't show up in the box score, it looked like Wiseman's presence in the middle did result in a lot of altered shots in the paint by the Dubs' opponents. He's got a lot of things he needs to work on, but, as my HS coach always used to say, "you can't teach height."
And I believe I alluded to this in an earlier thread, but I do expect Wiseman to look at lot better on the offensive side of the ball when surrounded by guys who can get him good looks and space the floor. Not much of that in SL. I laughed when the announcers were talking about the great chemistry between Wiseman and McClung - until McClung fed him a couple of times tonight, there was NO chemistry between the two. I think we'll see some real chemistry when pairing Wiseman with Steph, Dray, and Poole.
Yet, I get the feeling he was just a body to fill the roster. I don't think the Warriors want him. But, who knows. All eyes should be on Santos and Rolling this preseason, and of course on Baldwin.
Lol...spot-on....Lil Mac reminds me a bit of GPII on offense; plays a lot bigger than he is. I think his distribution skills in dumping the ball -off his awesome penetration skills- in the interior, or kicking out, will grow on a team of extraordinary shooters and WISEMAN finishes. I think a 2-way, or, 15 spot would add a fireplug energize PG...who knows what Kerr is thinking.
Maybe we go the other way with a Gui nickname and make it longer, not shorter; and treat his name as an acronym. If we did so, we could call him Graphical User Interface. This idea is so good that I may copyright it. It has no flaws. It rolls off the tongue perfectly for announcers. Tell everyone you were here when I thought of it.
I got you all beat. My 21 year old son is named Graphic User Interface. And I've got the birth certificate to prove it. However, he is broke and willing to sell rights for a $20.
I just saw the last summer league game, and for 3 quarters, I thought where have these guys been all summer. then Q4 happened, and it felt like Dubs' summer league again.
It's just so much that wiseman has to work on to just become average that I dont know if it will ever happen or if it's even worth the investment from us, think about it we already missed a playoffs due to the wiseman experiment.
What do you think Wiseman's trade value would be right now?
It's just so much that wiseman has to work on to just become average that I dont know if it will ever happen or if it's even worth the investment from us, think about it we already missed a playoffs due to the wiseman experiment.
Of course no one *knows* if it will ever happen. That’s why we give young players time to develop. You can post-rationalize the situations with Poole, Klay, et al. but those guys sucked as bad or worse at Wiseman’s age, even if not for identical reasons. What we’ve witnessed in four summer league games is not determinative.
Also, it’s “*there is* so much Wiseman has to work on,” not “it is so much he has to work on.”
Poole was called the worst player in the NBA. Somehow, he got that turned around. I know it's not a guarantee that Wiseman will do the same. But JW does have prodigious athletic gifts. If he does somehow make it, he has the tools to be special -- and that's what the Ws are hoping for.
As for whether it's worth the investment, an ownership group, front office, and coaching staff which have brought 4 championships and 6 finals appearances in 8 years deserves the benefit of the doubt. If they think it's worth it, I'm with them.
It's not a comparison because wiseman is bad at fundamental basics that bigs learn in high school and college, poole always had a bag, the game was just fast and his jumper didnt fall.
Wiseman still has to learn basic fundamentals like catching the ball before he can even move on to basic nba center requirements
That's not why Poole was bad. Wiseman, with three college games and no summer league or camp was flat out better as a rookie. Poole stunk as a rookie BUT he did the most important thing, which is work his ass off to get better, go to the G League without complaint, do what it took. I think we'll see Wiseman do the same but time will tell.
You literally are docking points from Wiseman’s potential by saying he should know stuff from college when he didn’t have college. I’m using your terms.
So now he has to learn basic fundamentals, then learn to play at the nba speed, then learn our offensive system, all while making his hands better and adjusting from being soft in the paint, shooting 3 foot fades to going up strong.
It's just a lot, we just won a ring without a 7 footer, would it be a better investment to find a better fit?
If the knicks would accept, would you trade wiseman for cam reddish?
And Poole is the sole reason why I’m willing to take a wait and see approach on Wiseman. Wisemans worst game looked ages better than what Poole looked like throughout his rookie year.
I think until he proves himself in the NBA on court for let's say three straight months, few GMs would trade much for him. Just as a random example I would not right now trade Kyle Anderson for him because Anderson will at least play and that's not a given with Wiseman. Obviously their ceilings are extremely different but ya gotta stay healthy.
It’s just a counterproductive example. Find someone that was a highly touted question mark who got injured and took a really long time to get going that was traded. That would bolster your point.
It’s just a counterproductive example. Find someone that was a highly touted question mark who got injured and took a really long time to get going that was traded. That would bolster your point.
I commented on your other very similar observation down below but two things have happened since Wiseman was drafted: Looney has emerged as a bonafide starting Center and the Dubs won the chip with three power forwards playing a good chunk of minutes at the 5. Our view 3 years ago was that we desperately needed a starting center and we expected Wiseman to do the things Zaza and Javale did while developing the rest of his game. It didn’t happen.
I know a lot of your fellow cohorts on here like to pretend they knew Wiseman was going to be a long term project all along but that wasn’t the case. They thought he would have a ready made game and he doesn’t. His Per 36s obviously points to the potential but not there yet. But point is we can afford to wait on Wiseman now as our team and the league is currently constructed. Only drawback may be financials
With all due respect, I strongly disagree with this take. I think /most/ of us knew that Wiseman would be a long-term project -- at least in the sense of becoming anything special. I think some people thought he might fill the JaVale role sometime late in that first season, and that turned out to be way too optimistic. (I actually think people underestimate JaVale and what it takes to be as good as he is). But I don't think anyone was expecting him to have a ready-made game and to star in the NBA with effectively no college career a la LeBron.
That said, I also thought LaMelo Ball would be more of a project than he's been. He's still developing, but he is further along than I ever would have guessed given his experience.
I always down for wiseman as a project and I've been one of the biggest voices in how a vertical spacer will help our offense when curry is out but it's timeto be realistic man hes not even close, I dont remember ever seeing someone bobble uncontested defensive rebounds before
I’d say this to be true IF this was yeae 3 and he looked like this in any given setting after having played the last two years. The reality is he’s missed a year and a half. The positive reality is we are in a much better position to absorb that lack of in game development
"During the early stages of Wiseman’s NBA career, he could fill the rim-running/protecting role that JaVale McGee played for years, but he’d hopefully evolve into much more once his shot-creation and floor awareness improve."
So the expectation has always been that he’d be at least McGee light his first few years in the league. Who knows again I’m not here to argue If he’s a bust or not and he may fulfill that role as early as this year but now the argument hs always been that we need to expertise patience with this kid and that’s furthest from the truth of what we were being fed.
I myself said to sit him the first year except garbage time and people were jumping down my throat especially after that first game after Milwaukee where he looked like rookie of the year. If the Warriors themselves knew he was going to look so raw a) they don’t start him and b) they don’t overhaul their coaching staff to focus more on his development
Many people did Glue. With all due respect for you to say that is rather disingenuous. Tyler Conways Bleacher Report
Wiseman has been seen as the likeliest candidate for Golden State for much of the draft process given the team's need for an interior force. The Memphis product is an instant-impact 7-footer who could be a double-double threat who blocks shots at the rim. Golden State could use Wiseman in a role similar to the one player by JaVale McGee and Festus Ezeli in previous years, except at a much higher level.
Find the quotes, if G&B is being “disingenuous.” And not just one or two — “a lot” of posts, by different posters, since that’s your premise.
Or even better: maybe stop taking shots at other posters here and/or distorting things they wrote in order to make yourself feel better about your own posts? Just make your points and don’t suck, to paraphrase Jim Rome. :-)
As G&B says, very few people here thought Wiseman was ready-made from day one. Some might have hoped, but that’s different. And some dude at B-R is not the same as “a lot” of people at DNHQ.
Personally, I always thought the “he can be JaVale McGee at minimum from day one” idea (that we have occasionally seen in generic outlets like B-R, not so much among savvy Warriors cognoscenti in places like this) was somewhat disrespectful of how good McGee was In 2016-2018 (when, notably, he was in his late 20s).
First off Sleepy I haven’t taken shots at any poster. I let the OP know that I respectfully disagreed that no one here had those views and that I felt his comments were rather disingenuous. I’m not attacking anyone for having any type of take here but you yourself had replied to one of my own comments right before the 2020 draft that you felt long term Anthony Edwards was going to be the better player but short term that You felt James Wiseman was going to have the more instant impact. That’s your views I’m not attacking you or anyone else for having them but that always seemed to be the clear consensus across the board. You weren’t the outlier.
Furthermore I just went back to listen to the Lowe Post podcast with Jonathan Giovonni talking about Wiseman and Lamelo. They all agreed (and were the only ones I could remember nationally saying it) that they felt Lamelo Ball was the clear 1. However in regards to Giovanni’s take on it he said that Wiseman would be a better version of Javale from Day 1 which he states would be appealing to the Warriors. Also the local media leading up and post draft would say the same things and bandied the same names usually McGee
Those quotes I posted were all from a Google search “James wiseman post draft” and all gathered from page 1 results. So no i respectfully disagree with him and i respectfully disagree with you because based on what I read both on here and heard read nationally everything was “Hey he can be Javale from day one but it’s gonna take awhile to unlock his whole skill set “. We went from that to “Hey we’ve always said he was gonna be a long term project “ which coincidentally is something I’ve been saying from Day One.
I'm just wondering since we did just win a title without a footer, would it be best to send wiseman out for someone who's a better fit in our system? We can always find veteran bigs like we've been doing.
Like say wiseman magically fixes his hands, his balance and defensive timing, is he going to have the awareness to play in our offense?
Fairly low I'd think. Mid first if some GM fancies him (I've heard rumors that Troy Weaver likes him, but with Duren there that seems very unlikely)? He's already halfway through his rookie contract (and it's a pretty expensive contract as far as rookie contracts go because he was the 2nd pick), so it is tricky.
They're not trading him though. Lacob seems to love him for whatever reason.
Obviously you can quibble with exact prospects (Maybe you think of Jaylin Williams as a mid-first level guy), but I think a reasonable expectation for Wiseman's value would be a late first.
He’d have to be part of a big package of players going out. He does have some value but the value looks much better with something akin to Kuminga and Poole going out (backcourt, wing, front court)
Last summer the NBA replayed all the finals from 2015 to the present. Very satisfying. Hope they do it again. I will skip a couple of later years, though lol
Love to see those again. Well, maybe not the last part of 2016... or 2019. Even with this year's triumph, the trauma is still healing from those past finals...
If you prefer to follow the winning teams, then you would watch the aces, sky, and storm. If, on the other hand, you want to watch a point guard schooled by Kobe Bryant and Steph Curry, on a team that is not winning but is learning how to play with a lot of assists and faster pace, and which has the only 6’10” player in the WNBA, then you would follow the liberty, with me. Defense in the WNBA is rather a mystery to me. I realize most people do not like to watch teams that are not winning😀 And of course the Warriors are totally unique.
We'll have a chance to see him in September together with Utah's Fontecchio (I can't blame you for faulty pronounciation, it sounds weird even in Italian) at the Europe national teams league. I'll try to sneak some reels in.
Excellent idea!!!! If I'm needed, you should know that I can post up .... by which I mean that I can stand like a post. So really what I'm saying is that if the defender wants to come stand right next to me, I'm an excellent screener. I just can't run, so I think it's reasonable to ask younger players to run toward me. This is gonna be fire.
Went to the Earthquakes game tonight. I do not watch their games in general, but seem like a frustrating team to be a fan for. Sounds not to dissimilar from the dubs SL squad, only they are not coming off a chip. I should mention though the atmosphere is fun and the stadium formerly known as Avaya is really cool.
Glad to see Quinones knocked down some shots in the box score. My lean-to is holding up strong, and I have found a supply of clean water less than a mile from my camp. So I can hang here on Isla de los Quinones for the rest of the summer no problem.
I was at that game too.
The Quakes are far better at generating and converting chances than they have been this past decade, but you can usually count on defensive brain farts to unravel the hard work.
Would you trade wiseman right now for cam reddish?
no.
Watch more basketball
No, but I'd trade him for any of the top 3 picks in the recent draft.
would you trade him for Ant or LaMelo?
In a heartbeat.
same
Neither of those dudes are 6’9” or taller, so….
(Yes I know you didn’t ask me. :-] )
Oh no, it's an open question! All answers welcome.
Doncic is only 6'7" would you trade Wiseman for him? (pretend the salaries worked out).
I’d trade him for Giannis or Jokic, too.
I like Wiseman's potential, but I'd have to pull the trigger on both of those.
Reddish sucks without the excuse of not having played basketball in 3 years
Not in a million years. Even if I was drunk off my @$$.
2 beer cans, bro
Are they full, because it makes a difference
Empty. So they’re ready for recycling
Moody technically led Summer League in PPG. Pretty unfair to Cam Thomas though who lost out by mere percentage points while playing in three more games but fuck it, propaganda is propaganda.
Enough about this basketball stuff. Who wants to talk pickleball?!
(Too soon?)
If it will distract from the Wiseman Cold War, let’s do it!
Do you think playing pickleball would make Wiseman a better basketball player?
Do you think playing pickleball would make DNHQ a better basketball community?
Nice! Did they add a way to adjust the nets to pickleball specifications as well? Still looking for courts around here...
Wow, Hot Stove Wiseman chatter. I'm in.
In judging talent, most people make the mistake of looking at a player's skills in a vacuum, as if basketball was a one-on-one game. Wiseman can still bring immense value to the Warriors even if his game is limited, even if he doesn't meet everyone's expectations based on him being drafted 2nd. Wiggins has been with us for 2 1/2 years and he didn't really seal the deal (fans are ALL IN) until these playoffs, and he has been in the league for years,
I thought the value that Wiseman could bring now was pretty obvious. A young athletic big who can eat minutes against the plethora of bigs in this league. He doesn't have to be Dikembe Mutumbo. But every minute Wiseman has a body on Gobert, Jokic, Embiid, JJJ, etc, is a minute that Green or Looney isn't guarding them. Who thinks going another full season with Green (back issues) and Looney (already played 104 games last year) playing major minutes every night banging. Wiseman will have a negative plus/minus next year. Get over it. But maybe, if the guy gives us 20-24 a night, we get into next post-season and Green and Looney won't be trashed. The league is getting bigger and faster. The Warriors aren't going to keep winning Chips without closing the athletic gap. And having Wiseman is the best insurance we can have on the health of Green & Loon.
And remember when we had a vertical spacer? McGee? Remember how many easy freaking dunks he got. If Wiseman converts 80% of what McGee used to its a win. And when you combine East-West spacing with our shooters with a vertical spacer, and you got Draymond driving the lane, it's a whole new world.
Yeah he is going to suck sometimes and make boneheaded plays. But every player has value beyond their obvious skills or lack thereof. Its not Wiseman vs Ball or Ant Man. Or Wiseman vs. another versatile wing. Its about all the different roles he can play on our team and how they impact the team as a whole. I believe the FO has a real good idea about that value and that they are fully in on him.
Although it doesn't show up in the box score, it looked like Wiseman's presence in the middle did result in a lot of altered shots in the paint by the Dubs' opponents. He's got a lot of things he needs to work on, but, as my HS coach always used to say, "you can't teach height."
And I believe I alluded to this in an earlier thread, but I do expect Wiseman to look at lot better on the offensive side of the ball when surrounded by guys who can get him good looks and space the floor. Not much of that in SL. I laughed when the announcers were talking about the great chemistry between Wiseman and McClung - until McClung fed him a couple of times tonight, there was NO chemistry between the two. I think we'll see some real chemistry when pairing Wiseman with Steph, Dray, and Poole.
A big who buys minutes can be had each offseason for a vet min (or at most a TPMLE), not for a #2 pick who is earning ~10 million a year.
Dalton Johnson
@DaltonJ_Johnson
Jama Mahlalela thought tonight was James Wiseman's best game of summer league
"It just bodes well for the rest of his summer. He can now do development work and not do rehab work."
7:10 PM · Jul 17, 2022
That's great if true.
I'm glad they are trying to keep his confident high, he looked pretty bad to me
I wouldn't say bad, but I wouldn't say good. Uh..........
My take is that Jama’s a good coach who’s an integral part of a championship coaching team and that he means what he says.
It’s “you’re”. Read more.
I kept the tv on espn2 and they’re showing TEQ ball and it’s pretty exciting. I’d never even heard of it.
It seems pretty contrived to me. Better than Steph's mini-golf show, but not that much :)
Lil Mac was Big Mac tonight...3 out of 5 games he has played well...Definitely a baller and energizer....
Yet, I get the feeling he was just a body to fill the roster. I don't think the Warriors want him. But, who knows. All eyes should be on Santos and Rolling this preseason, and of course on Baldwin.
Lil Mac's gonna go the way of Jimmer Fredette. He'll put up some good numbers in some lower league but will never last in the NBA.
We owe Fredette an ocean of gratitude, since he was picked right before Klay. Let's be forever thankful to the guy.
Lol...spot-on....Lil Mac reminds me a bit of GPII on offense; plays a lot bigger than he is. I think his distribution skills in dumping the ball -off his awesome penetration skills- in the interior, or kicking out, will grow on a team of extraordinary shooters and WISEMAN finishes. I think a 2-way, or, 15 spot would add a fireplug energize PG...who knows what Kerr is thinking.
Lil’Mac looks a little like Nikos Galis, doesn’t he?
...and, he is only gonna get better around the Dubs/system...scary thought...lol
Yep, both play/played bigger than they are/were....Lil'Mac has better handles; almost curryesque....lol
Funny how Lil'Mac + Moody resemble Galis + Yannakis. Ah, giovinezza! (youth)
Still I'm in doubt between him and Q. The latter seems to translate better into NBA.
Q
I think he only played four games, no?
Sorry, Goofus, just saw this. He played in all 5...
For those already yearning for the NBA greatness we now are deprived of for too long a time, I present something to keep your toes warm, heart glad, and rear end on the edge of your seat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6rfboXFoY8&ab_channel=GoldenStateWarriors
He really had some nice chemistry with JTA.
The MacClung of his day.
I thought it was going to be Anthony Randolph highlights
If only.
Maybe we go the other way with a Gui nickname and make it longer, not shorter; and treat his name as an acronym. If we did so, we could call him Graphical User Interface. This idea is so good that I may copyright it. It has no flaws. It rolls off the tongue perfectly for announcers. Tell everyone you were here when I thought of it.
I guess that would make him the Brazilian love child of Elon Musk.
Terrible idea; but I rec'd it. I really have no clue, do I?
Generosity is never in the wrong.
I will fight your copyright ... I made the same joke a week and a half ago. :)
Pics or didn't happen as they say in IP law
I got you all beat. My 21 year old son is named Graphic User Interface. And I've got the birth certificate to prove it. However, he is broke and willing to sell rights for a $20.
The scary part is that I actually went and found it
Apparently I am exactly that dumb. :)
You can search for 'Gnome' to find it.
https://dubnationhq.com/p/2022-nba-draft-warriors-select-toledos/comments
inline
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TwoRingTest
Jun 24
I realize Gui Santos is never going to make it here, but that hasn't stopped me from making up nicknames (that only someone in software would get).
Gnome
CLI
stopnpop
Jun 24
There's a CentOS GUI joke related to KD(E) somewhere in there...
GhostRidingTheInjuryCart
Jun 24
As long as you don't call him WIMP.
Holds up in court. It's all yours!
I just saw the last summer league game, and for 3 quarters, I thought where have these guys been all summer. then Q4 happened, and it felt like Dubs' summer league again.
Since this is probably McClung's last game as a Warrior, here's a summer league highlight reel:
https://youtu.be/SXeVjXg9BFU?t=47
ha ha
Good. Finally McClung played like a true leader (especially when the team was trailing). Let's decide at the camp if the 13th spot is for him or Q.
Wiseman has an athletic issue, far from surprising. He must spend the next three months in the pool, on the tapis roulant and the fixed bike.
Chachacha deserves a camp invitation and an opportunity with the Tridents.
Quinones is getting confident and consistent. Good.
This SL has been fun. Don't make me think about how long it takes for the camp... too late.
Guess I'll have to head down to the Y and start video-taping pick-up games again.
Would you really describe this SL as fun though? I’ve spent the last four games just holding my breath everytime Wiseman would bite on a pump fake
Gui was fun to me at least.
But he's exactly the type of player I like though (even if he's probably never going to be good enough to be rotation level NBA guy).
It's just so much that wiseman has to work on to just become average that I dont know if it will ever happen or if it's even worth the investment from us, think about it we already missed a playoffs due to the wiseman experiment.
What do you think Wiseman's trade value would be right now?
So, we’re writing off the guy who’s played 140 sub-NBA minutes in the last 15 months and is still working on his conditioning because… why?
It's just so much that wiseman has to work on to just become average that I dont know if it will ever happen or if it's even worth the investment from us, think about it we already missed a playoffs due to the wiseman experiment.
Of course no one *knows* if it will ever happen. That’s why we give young players time to develop. You can post-rationalize the situations with Poole, Klay, et al. but those guys sucked as bad or worse at Wiseman’s age, even if not for identical reasons. What we’ve witnessed in four summer league games is not determinative.
Also, it’s “*there is* so much Wiseman has to work on,” not “it is so much he has to work on.”
Poole was called the worst player in the NBA. Somehow, he got that turned around. I know it's not a guarantee that Wiseman will do the same. But JW does have prodigious athletic gifts. If he does somehow make it, he has the tools to be special -- and that's what the Ws are hoping for.
As for whether it's worth the investment, an ownership group, front office, and coaching staff which have brought 4 championships and 6 finals appearances in 8 years deserves the benefit of the doubt. If they think it's worth it, I'm with them.
Damn… guess we prob have to add a first rounder just to dump the salary. Sigh…
People said all the same things about Poole at Wiseman’s age.
It's not a comparison because wiseman is bad at fundamental basics that bigs learn in high school and college, poole always had a bag, the game was just fast and his jumper didnt fall.
Wiseman still has to learn basic fundamentals like catching the ball before he can even move on to basic nba center requirements
Actually it's not a comparison because Wiseman as a rookie was way, way better than Poole as a rookie.
He also played next to green and curry. Poole was on the worst team in the league
That's not why Poole was bad. Wiseman, with three college games and no summer league or camp was flat out better as a rookie. Poole stunk as a rookie BUT he did the most important thing, which is work his ass off to get better, go to the G League without complaint, do what it took. I think we'll see Wiseman do the same but time will tell.
Ah yes, the fundamentals Wiseman learned at all that college he attended.
That's the point
You literally are docking points from Wiseman’s potential by saying he should know stuff from college when he didn’t have college. I’m using your terms.
So now he has to learn basic fundamentals, then learn to play at the nba speed, then learn our offensive system, all while making his hands better and adjusting from being soft in the paint, shooting 3 foot fades to going up strong.
It's just a lot, we just won a ring without a 7 footer, would it be a better investment to find a better fit?
If the knicks would accept, would you trade wiseman for cam reddish?
And Poole is the sole reason why I’m willing to take a wait and see approach on Wiseman. Wisemans worst game looked ages better than what Poole looked like throughout his rookie year.
I think until he proves himself in the NBA on court for let's say three straight months, few GMs would trade much for him. Just as a random example I would not right now trade Kyle Anderson for him because Anderson will at least play and that's not a given with Wiseman. Obviously their ceilings are extremely different but ya gotta stay healthy.
I feel what your saying but these are the same GMs that gave beal 50 million, I think someone would want the wiseman project
There is zero comparison there. They overpay for proven talent. Exact opposite of J-Dub.
It's not a comparison sir its saying nba gms are dumb
It’s just a counterproductive example. Find someone that was a highly touted question mark who got injured and took a really long time to get going that was traded. That would bolster your point.
Marvin bagley
nba gms do dumb things like give beal 50 million dollar lol
It’s just a counterproductive example. Find someone that was a highly touted question mark who got injured and took a really long time to get going that was traded. That would bolster your point.
Fultz?
True. I have way too much faith in the intelligence of NBA GMs.
I commented on your other very similar observation down below but two things have happened since Wiseman was drafted: Looney has emerged as a bonafide starting Center and the Dubs won the chip with three power forwards playing a good chunk of minutes at the 5. Our view 3 years ago was that we desperately needed a starting center and we expected Wiseman to do the things Zaza and Javale did while developing the rest of his game. It didn’t happen.
I know a lot of your fellow cohorts on here like to pretend they knew Wiseman was going to be a long term project all along but that wasn’t the case. They thought he would have a ready made game and he doesn’t. His Per 36s obviously points to the potential but not there yet. But point is we can afford to wait on Wiseman now as our team and the league is currently constructed. Only drawback may be financials
With all due respect, I strongly disagree with this take. I think /most/ of us knew that Wiseman would be a long-term project -- at least in the sense of becoming anything special. I think some people thought he might fill the JaVale role sometime late in that first season, and that turned out to be way too optimistic. (I actually think people underestimate JaVale and what it takes to be as good as he is). But I don't think anyone was expecting him to have a ready-made game and to star in the NBA with effectively no college career a la LeBron.
That said, I also thought LaMelo Ball would be more of a project than he's been. He's still developing, but he is further along than I ever would have guessed given his experience.
I always down for wiseman as a project and I've been one of the biggest voices in how a vertical spacer will help our offense when curry is out but it's timeto be realistic man hes not even close, I dont remember ever seeing someone bobble uncontested defensive rebounds before
I’d say this to be true IF this was yeae 3 and he looked like this in any given setting after having played the last two years. The reality is he’s missed a year and a half. The positive reality is we are in a much better position to absorb that lack of in game development
NO ONE thought he would have a ready-made game.
Let me continue.
Kevin O Connor
"During the early stages of Wiseman’s NBA career, he could fill the rim-running/protecting role that JaVale McGee played for years, but he’d hopefully evolve into much more once his shot-creation and floor awareness improve."
So the expectation has always been that he’d be at least McGee light his first few years in the league. Who knows again I’m not here to argue If he’s a bust or not and he may fulfill that role as early as this year but now the argument hs always been that we need to expertise patience with this kid and that’s furthest from the truth of what we were being fed.
I myself said to sit him the first year except garbage time and people were jumping down my throat especially after that first game after Milwaukee where he looked like rookie of the year. If the Warriors themselves knew he was going to look so raw a) they don’t start him and b) they don’t overhaul their coaching staff to focus more on his development
Many people did Glue. With all due respect for you to say that is rather disingenuous. Tyler Conways Bleacher Report
Wiseman has been seen as the likeliest candidate for Golden State for much of the draft process given the team's need for an interior force. The Memphis product is an instant-impact 7-footer who could be a double-double threat who blocks shots at the rim. Golden State could use Wiseman in a role similar to the one player by JaVale McGee and Festus Ezeli in previous years, except at a much higher level.
Find the quotes, if G&B is being “disingenuous.” And not just one or two — “a lot” of posts, by different posters, since that’s your premise.
Or even better: maybe stop taking shots at other posters here and/or distorting things they wrote in order to make yourself feel better about your own posts? Just make your points and don’t suck, to paraphrase Jim Rome. :-)
As G&B says, very few people here thought Wiseman was ready-made from day one. Some might have hoped, but that’s different. And some dude at B-R is not the same as “a lot” of people at DNHQ.
Personally, I always thought the “he can be JaVale McGee at minimum from day one” idea (that we have occasionally seen in generic outlets like B-R, not so much among savvy Warriors cognoscenti in places like this) was somewhat disrespectful of how good McGee was In 2016-2018 (when, notably, he was in his late 20s).
First off Sleepy I haven’t taken shots at any poster. I let the OP know that I respectfully disagreed that no one here had those views and that I felt his comments were rather disingenuous. I’m not attacking anyone for having any type of take here but you yourself had replied to one of my own comments right before the 2020 draft that you felt long term Anthony Edwards was going to be the better player but short term that You felt James Wiseman was going to have the more instant impact. That’s your views I’m not attacking you or anyone else for having them but that always seemed to be the clear consensus across the board. You weren’t the outlier.
Furthermore I just went back to listen to the Lowe Post podcast with Jonathan Giovonni talking about Wiseman and Lamelo. They all agreed (and were the only ones I could remember nationally saying it) that they felt Lamelo Ball was the clear 1. However in regards to Giovanni’s take on it he said that Wiseman would be a better version of Javale from Day 1 which he states would be appealing to the Warriors. Also the local media leading up and post draft would say the same things and bandied the same names usually McGee
Those quotes I posted were all from a Google search “James wiseman post draft” and all gathered from page 1 results. So no i respectfully disagree with him and i respectfully disagree with you because based on what I read both on here and heard read nationally everything was “Hey he can be Javale from day one but it’s gonna take awhile to unlock his whole skill set “. We went from that to “Hey we’ve always said he was gonna be a long term project “ which coincidentally is something I’ve been saying from Day One.
Instant-impact “at a much higher level” than McGee? Tyler, you fool.
Disingenuous, really? It’s safe to say that here at DNHQ, even the optimists (myself included) have realized from early on he was a project.
💜
Yep, agree...
I'm just wondering since we did just win a title without a footer, would it be best to send wiseman out for someone who's a better fit in our system? We can always find veteran bigs like we've been doing.
Like say wiseman magically fixes his hands, his balance and defensive timing, is he going to have the awareness to play in our offense?
Hands looked alright in SL. He bobbled a few but I’m not sure it’s his hands so much as positioning and speed which seem learnable.
The Warriors also won title without the guy you want to trade the “footer” for.
Selling low is typically bad strategy, and is not the Warriors’ MO.
Fairly low I'd think. Mid first if some GM fancies him (I've heard rumors that Troy Weaver likes him, but with Duren there that seems very unlikely)? He's already halfway through his rookie contract (and it's a pretty expensive contract as far as rookie contracts go because he was the 2nd pick), so it is tricky.
They're not trading him though. Lacob seems to love him for whatever reason.
Shoot even a mid first, I think I would rather have 36th pick jaylin William's on the thunder then wiseman rn
Obviously you can quibble with exact prospects (Maybe you think of Jaylin Williams as a mid-first level guy), but I think a reasonable expectation for Wiseman's value would be a late first.
He’d have to be part of a big package of players going out. He does have some value but the value looks much better with something akin to Kuminga and Poole going out (backcourt, wing, front court)
The Anthony Bennett lol? Don't think Wiseman has fallen that far quite yet.
The only real conclusion I take from this game is that DubPHan's Quinones Island mangrove swamp now has enough dry land to put up a pup tent.
What am I supposed to do until the preseason now lol?
Last summer the NBA replayed all the finals from 2015 to the present. Very satisfying. Hope they do it again. I will skip a couple of later years, though lol
Love to see those again. Well, maybe not the last part of 2016... or 2019. Even with this year's triumph, the trauma is still healing from those past finals...
I am going to write a cyberpunk novel.
Maybe two.
At least one of the characters needs to be named "Q".
A smart policeman that finds his way into a nasty intrigue?
Maybe two.
Do like the Thompson family ... the second one can be named "Cue".
And Queue.
I'd start with one. Or is that not punk enough?
I am an unruly writer. If I had an editor, he'd sue me.
Choose a WNBA team. And adjust your expectations accordingly. Mine is the Liberty.
Not a bad idea. Which team is the Warriors of the WNBA?
If you prefer to follow the winning teams, then you would watch the aces, sky, and storm. If, on the other hand, you want to watch a point guard schooled by Kobe Bryant and Steph Curry, on a team that is not winning but is learning how to play with a lot of assists and faster pace, and which has the only 6’10” player in the WNBA, then you would follow the liberty, with me. Defense in the WNBA is rather a mystery to me. I realize most people do not like to watch teams that are not winning😀 And of course the Warriors are totally unique.
Acknowledge, along with me, how hollow our lives are without bball
Then what
Kittens. You need at least 3. Highly entertaining at 5-6 wks.
... perhaps a drug or alcohol addiction? Brainstorming here
It's good to have a fallback certainly
Don't just go diving; have a plan. That's my view.
Chris Chiozza Warriors highlights videos.
really pushing him towards the drug and alcohol addiction huh?
wow this thread really pays off
Loool.
After watching McClung, I have very fond memories of Chiozza now.
srsly. Chiozza was an All-NBA pg in comparison to McClung.
Watch full game highlights of our magical summer league performances on a tape loop?
I'd rather watch the 4th quarter of the 2016 Finals G7 on a loop.
Nico Mannion in Italy's training camp, maybe he'll make the roster lol.
We'll have a chance to see him in September together with Utah's Fontecchio (I can't blame you for faulty pronounciation, it sounds weird even in Italian) at the Europe national teams league. I'll try to sneak some reels in.
honestly would love a DNHQ pickup game
I criticize the shot form of players way too much for me to allow anyone to see what mine looks like lol
hey, I'm not exactly Klay Thompson out there myself
Excellent idea!!!! If I'm needed, you should know that I can post up .... by which I mean that I can stand like a post. So really what I'm saying is that if the defender wants to come stand right next to me, I'm an excellent screener. I just can't run, so I think it's reasonable to ask younger players to run toward me. This is gonna be fire.