It wasn't the fault of the offensive production of the team, it was the defensive weakness that we showed. They allowed teams to score at will on us. It was a defensive disaster almost to a man, imo.
Also, here's a snippet from somebody's conversation with a friend who works in the league, coming from the Light Years podcast discord:
"Rockets scout told me the front office felt that Podz had the best workout they've seen in the last few years and they were going to take him at 20 before the Warriors took him"
When pressed for specifics:
"1. Demeanor, couldn't be better;
2. Shot the piss out of the ball;
3. John Lucas runs their workouts and intentionally pulls random, strange drills out of thin air to test how the players adapt and tries to make it random and tricky and Podz just adapted to all of them perfectly and killed all of them"
I've now seen indications that the Heat had Podziemski #2 behind Jaquez, the Warriors had Podziemski and Jaquez as their top two (Jaquez probably ahead but who knows), the Rockets had Podziemski #1 of the available players, and the Nets had Podziemski #1 of the available players.
Kuminga's first two seasons have seen him have a TS% of around 60%, uneven but notable flashes of superb defense, and gradual improvements in his feel and processing for the NBA game. TJD might be better at his narrow role - particularly given that his role in the system will fit his strengths in post-passing, pick and roll decision-making, and help defense - than Kuminga has been the past two years, but I am deeply skeptical that TJD will be better than Kuminga this year. And Kuminga is also 2-3 years younger.
So, you are of the view that Kuminga's ceiling is much greater than TJD's. I don't have any special insight into this, just my eye test of how TJD plays the game. He already looks much more natural to me moving around the floor than JK and executing at the basket. I'm going to find it fascinating to see how this all develops.
1. Not comparable players. TJD is a pretty traditional big who does traditional big things: screen, roll, finish, rebound, defend the paint, e.g. JK is a versatile wing who even at age 19-20 has flashed a ton of skills TJD will likely never have: ability to lock down fast guards and wings on the perimeter, ability to create for himself and others off the bounce, ability to hit threes, e.g. It’s like comparing young LeBron to young Dwight Howard, to give archetypal examples of both.
2. Kuminga is almost three years younger than TJD — and was almost five years younger than him when drafted. Those years are huge in terms of a player’s expected development; and even given two players with similar skill sets (which, as noted, JK and TJD do not have) typically give the younger player the higher ceiling.
But agreed: it’s gonna be fun to watch LeBron 2.0 and Dwight 2.0 develop! 😊
Seconded, I like what we've got going with this year's draft picks. Gui and Lester look about right for two-way deals: almost there, but not consistent enough. (Early on, it was Quiñones who looked poised while Santos struggled; vs Houston that was reversed.)
Podz's jumper looked pretty bad and same with his floater... but his court vision was better than expected with excellent placement and timing on most of his passes. There were a few that he was just a little bit too slow on, but between that and the rebounding he's got some star potential if his shot comes online.
TJD, I don't have a lot to go on, but his game looked fairly developed: rim protection, screening, and passing all seemed way more developed than, say, Smailagic's did. He could definitely turn out to be a steal at 57. Feels like he actually is a fantastic fit as a big for the type of offense Kerr likes to run.
TJD looks good! It’s crazy how many good players you can get in the 2nd round or undrafted these days. It still feels like yesterday when POB or Rafael Araujo were lottery picks and Stephane Lasme was the typical 2nd round talent
I don't care much about most of the other guys, but I would like to see Javan Johnson get some more run, for the reasons mentioned in these articles. The description of him is very intriguing.
How many need evaluation? Once you get past Podz, TJD, Gui, and LQ, maybe you want to look at a couple of others but the rest are filler. I'd like to see Podz get at least some playing time on Saturday.
TJD debut highlights for those who missed the game.
His roll game and ability to slither into the open spot stood out. The screens that did land were good for his first game as well. I was curious to see him at the line and his stroke looks good. If he can shoot around 70% that'll be just fine.
He's a great fit for the Warriors in theory. Think he'll have an outside chance at making an All-Rookie Team, although I could also see him getting squeezed for minutes because it seems like they probably had to guarantee Kuminga a 20+ minute role to get rid of his trade request and I think that might end up affecting TJD the most. Politically, it's easiest to just bench the rookie rather than Kuminga/Saric/Looney/Draymond.
EDIT: Also I could see TJD becoming CP3's favorite pick and roll partner.
> The Warriors and Kuminga’s representatives are expected to discuss his future this offseason, league sources say. Golden State will need to decide whether Kuminga will receive a full-time role moving forward, and, if not, league sources say the No. 7 pick in the 2021 NBA Draft will want to be somewhere he can play more.
From Slater and Shams right after the season ended. A conditional trade request, so if Kuminga is on the team next season it means he's getting a full-time role.
I guess the TO CULTURE permeates down to our Summer League Squad.....22 turnovers for us, 10 for them, 12 TO differential....35 pts for them off our TOs, 9 pts for us of their TOs, 26 pts differential...worthy Warriors....lol
I only saw the first three quarters so maybe the fourth was different but I really liked Podziemski's game in the first three quarters. TJD definitely had some rust/conditioning to deal with but think he showed some good stuff, looking for more in the last game if his minutes restriction is eased. Kinda a non-test against the Rockets who didn't have much inside though. Perry is the only non-already in the system player making a case for a two-way.
Hudgins looks like he'd be an NBA player if he was a bit taller. I thought Whitmore looked like a shoot first, second, and third and maybe pass fourth if all options are taken away type of player, but a talented individual scorer (don't really care at all that the Warriors passed on him tbh, Leonard Miller though maybe lol). Does Houston have Days on a two-way already or can the Warriors get him?
It often felt like Wiseman was clogging up the offense or just in the way somehow (especially for all the post ups which he was still doing in Summer League), whereas TJD looks like he knows how to position himself on the court.
Also that pass he had out of the post across the court to the open three point shooter was a breath of fresh air. Pass could have been slightly more on target but the vision was great.
Seemed a step slow on a few plays but for now I'll chalk it up to conditioning.
I didn't see most of the game, but according to the box score I noticed TJD only had 1 foul credited to him. Which seemed promising given summer league guys propensity to foul a ridiculous amount.
GSW pulled together a bunch of decent players, asked them to learn a little bit of motion offense, they mostly didn't learn it, ran a bunch of simple pick and roll, tried to work LQ and BP offball where they might play with the big league team. Tried to get touches for all the players, big and small. So, all about development and seeing how players fit in Kerrball. No chasing wins here. In fact, maybe punched some wins in the face.
It feels like HOU's summer league team is playing a simple 5-out offense with simple handoffs and a green light to fire away from three, and has recruited a team to run that system, and everyone racks up numbers. On defense, HOU overplayed the passing lanes and counted on GSW not being organized enough to punish them. The perfect summer league team.
But is Udoka planning on HOU shooting 49 shots from three every game? Not with the mediocre three-point shooters they currently have. Are these guys going to hoist pull up threes with the big club? I kind of doubt it.
So it feels a little like HOU is kind of punting on Summer League as any kind of development for the pros. And maybe that's practical. But it feels disappointing to me, kind of like having grade school basketball teams play a zone. Yeah, it's good for winning but Summer League isn't about winning.
You can call me salty, but I haven't been salty about any of the other losses...
The motion offense is probably more turnover prone especially when you don't have top passers like Curry and Green running the offense (people mistake their turnovers for them being turnover prone when it's more the systemic demands imo), but insofar as Summer League is to get young guys acquainted with your system, it's well worth it.
Seems to make for a shitty SL team though considering how they've barely won any games in the past three seasons lol. Also perhaps a reason why the Warriors don't seem to have many interesting non-already in the Warrior organization guys (except maybe Perry)?
I would’ve taken Cam personally, but it is WAY too early to say who the right pick was. And summer league is far from being a solid indicator, as has been well established.
Cam's floor is way higher than Podz. That alone warranted the pick, not to mention his ceiling. Plus, the positional advantage it would give us having a player like him. Of course, if you only like guard play, that's what we've got already.
Like I said I would’ve taken Cam too. But there’s a reason that he dropped from being projected as the #5 pick all the way down to #20. The health questions and/or personal problems need to be heavy to make something like that happen.
Ha ha. There are no medical reports about a degenerative condition. Rockets did the homework and said rumors were unfounded. The only knock that persisted was his attitude. Ask Draymond if his attitude prevented him from playing in the NBA?
What exactly should I not be believing? His basketball skill alone led to him being projected at #5 in the draft, and something led to him dropping to #20. Is there something other than health and personal issues that could warrant something like that?
Perception fickle. Rumors are speculation. Look at the way this guy plays. Maybe he had an injury in the past. So did Curry. So have many top NBA players. You fix them. If it is unfixable, that's a different story.
It wasn't the fault of the offensive production of the team, it was the defensive weakness that we showed. They allowed teams to score at will on us. It was a defensive disaster almost to a man, imo.
Our 3 point D is still looking Shakey. Were really going to have to work on that.
Also, here's a snippet from somebody's conversation with a friend who works in the league, coming from the Light Years podcast discord:
"Rockets scout told me the front office felt that Podz had the best workout they've seen in the last few years and they were going to take him at 20 before the Warriors took him"
When pressed for specifics:
"1. Demeanor, couldn't be better;
2. Shot the piss out of the ball;
3. John Lucas runs their workouts and intentionally pulls random, strange drills out of thin air to test how the players adapt and tries to make it random and tricky and Podz just adapted to all of them perfectly and killed all of them"
Sam confirmed hearing similar from other people.
I've now seen indications that the Heat had Podziemski #2 behind Jaquez, the Warriors had Podziemski and Jaquez as their top two (Jaquez probably ahead but who knows), the Rockets had Podziemski #1 of the available players, and the Nets had Podziemski #1 of the available players.
Seems like that was his range.
/s 19 comes before 20 😁
?
The rockets could have called the dubs to trade amen Thompson for Pods. Dubs would have accepted 😂
Totally thought you were being sarcastic
Is TJD better than Kuminga¿
I think he's a better center than Kuminga for sure. Kuminga has more potential at the 4 though.
Kuminga's first two seasons have seen him have a TS% of around 60%, uneven but notable flashes of superb defense, and gradual improvements in his feel and processing for the NBA game. TJD might be better at his narrow role - particularly given that his role in the system will fit his strengths in post-passing, pick and roll decision-making, and help defense - than Kuminga has been the past two years, but I am deeply skeptical that TJD will be better than Kuminga this year. And Kuminga is also 2-3 years younger.
So, you are of the view that Kuminga's ceiling is much greater than TJD's. I don't have any special insight into this, just my eye test of how TJD plays the game. He already looks much more natural to me moving around the floor than JK and executing at the basket. I'm going to find it fascinating to see how this all develops.
1. Not comparable players. TJD is a pretty traditional big who does traditional big things: screen, roll, finish, rebound, defend the paint, e.g. JK is a versatile wing who even at age 19-20 has flashed a ton of skills TJD will likely never have: ability to lock down fast guards and wings on the perimeter, ability to create for himself and others off the bounce, ability to hit threes, e.g. It’s like comparing young LeBron to young Dwight Howard, to give archetypal examples of both.
2. Kuminga is almost three years younger than TJD — and was almost five years younger than him when drafted. Those years are huge in terms of a player’s expected development; and even given two players with similar skill sets (which, as noted, JK and TJD do not have) typically give the younger player the higher ceiling.
But agreed: it’s gonna be fun to watch LeBron 2.0 and Dwight 2.0 develop! 😊
Seconded, I like what we've got going with this year's draft picks. Gui and Lester look about right for two-way deals: almost there, but not consistent enough. (Early on, it was Quiñones who looked poised while Santos struggled; vs Houston that was reversed.)
Podz's jumper looked pretty bad and same with his floater... but his court vision was better than expected with excellent placement and timing on most of his passes. There were a few that he was just a little bit too slow on, but between that and the rebounding he's got some star potential if his shot comes online.
TJD, I don't have a lot to go on, but his game looked fairly developed: rim protection, screening, and passing all seemed way more developed than, say, Smailagic's did. He could definitely turn out to be a steal at 57. Feels like he actually is a fantastic fit as a big for the type of offense Kerr likes to run.
TJD looks good! It’s crazy how many good players you can get in the 2nd round or undrafted these days. It still feels like yesterday when POB or Rafael Araujo were lottery picks and Stephane Lasme was the typical 2nd round talent
I'm guessing Podziemski is done for Summer League? They need to let some of these other guys play too to evaluate them.
I don't care much about most of the other guys, but I would like to see Javan Johnson get some more run, for the reasons mentioned in these articles. The description of him is very intriguing.
How many need evaluation? Once you get past Podz, TJD, Gui, and LQ, maybe you want to look at a couple of others but the rest are filler. I'd like to see Podz get at least some playing time on Saturday.
Probably yeah. That's how past years have gone as far as I can remember.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTpOe4q-beM
TJD debut highlights for those who missed the game.
His roll game and ability to slither into the open spot stood out. The screens that did land were good for his first game as well. I was curious to see him at the line and his stroke looks good. If he can shoot around 70% that'll be just fine.
Yea def a player who knows how to play the right way
He's a great fit for the Warriors in theory. Think he'll have an outside chance at making an All-Rookie Team, although I could also see him getting squeezed for minutes because it seems like they probably had to guarantee Kuminga a 20+ minute role to get rid of his trade request and I think that might end up affecting TJD the most. Politically, it's easiest to just bench the rookie rather than Kuminga/Saric/Looney/Draymond.
EDIT: Also I could see TJD becoming CP3's favorite pick and roll partner.
Let's hope so. He looked very comfortable on the court
Has any legitimate source, particularly someone like Slater, given any reason to believe that a trade request was made by Kuminga's camp?
> The Warriors and Kuminga’s representatives are expected to discuss his future this offseason, league sources say. Golden State will need to decide whether Kuminga will receive a full-time role moving forward, and, if not, league sources say the No. 7 pick in the 2021 NBA Draft will want to be somewhere he can play more.
https://theathletic.com/4515361/2023/05/13/warriors-offseason-free-agency-trades-draymond-green-bob-myers/
From Slater and Shams right after the season ended. A conditional trade request, so if Kuminga is on the team next season it means he's getting a full-time role.
I guess the TO CULTURE permeates down to our Summer League Squad.....22 turnovers for us, 10 for them, 12 TO differential....35 pts for them off our TOs, 9 pts for us of their TOs, 26 pts differential...worthy Warriors....lol
Warrior culture.
I only saw the first three quarters so maybe the fourth was different but I really liked Podziemski's game in the first three quarters. TJD definitely had some rust/conditioning to deal with but think he showed some good stuff, looking for more in the last game if his minutes restriction is eased. Kinda a non-test against the Rockets who didn't have much inside though. Perry is the only non-already in the system player making a case for a two-way.
Hudgins looks like he'd be an NBA player if he was a bit taller. I thought Whitmore looked like a shoot first, second, and third and maybe pass fourth if all options are taken away type of player, but a talented individual scorer (don't really care at all that the Warriors passed on him tbh, Leonard Miller though maybe lol). Does Houston have Days on a two-way already or can the Warriors get him?
Couldn’t watch. How was TJDs screen setting and defense? If those are passable, I feel like he’ll get some decent run this year
I saw one TJD screen on a highlight and was like finally somebody who can screen
Good. Night & day from another certain young center from recent memory
It often felt like Wiseman was clogging up the offense or just in the way somehow (especially for all the post ups which he was still doing in Summer League), whereas TJD looks like he knows how to position himself on the court.
Also that pass he had out of the post across the court to the open three point shooter was a breath of fresh air. Pass could have been slightly more on target but the vision was great.
Seemed a step slow on a few plays but for now I'll chalk it up to conditioning.
I thought he was trying to set, or at least be available for screens, and was happy to see that.
On defense he seemed aware and moved his feet, fouled some, but it was encouraging to me.
I didn't see most of the game, but according to the box score I noticed TJD only had 1 foul credited to him. Which seemed promising given summer league guys propensity to foul a ridiculous amount.
OK, I guess I saw his one foul. Thanks for clarifying for us all!
With 9:38 left in the 3rd, Blazers up 47-19 on the Magic… in the 3rd
yowza
GSW pulled together a bunch of decent players, asked them to learn a little bit of motion offense, they mostly didn't learn it, ran a bunch of simple pick and roll, tried to work LQ and BP offball where they might play with the big league team. Tried to get touches for all the players, big and small. So, all about development and seeing how players fit in Kerrball. No chasing wins here. In fact, maybe punched some wins in the face.
It feels like HOU's summer league team is playing a simple 5-out offense with simple handoffs and a green light to fire away from three, and has recruited a team to run that system, and everyone racks up numbers. On defense, HOU overplayed the passing lanes and counted on GSW not being organized enough to punish them. The perfect summer league team.
But is Udoka planning on HOU shooting 49 shots from three every game? Not with the mediocre three-point shooters they currently have. Are these guys going to hoist pull up threes with the big club? I kind of doubt it.
So it feels a little like HOU is kind of punting on Summer League as any kind of development for the pros. And maybe that's practical. But it feels disappointing to me, kind of like having grade school basketball teams play a zone. Yeah, it's good for winning but Summer League isn't about winning.
You can call me salty, but I haven't been salty about any of the other losses...
Maybe you regret not picking Cam?
Haha, never! Though it hurts to have him rain threes on us
> maybe punched some wins in the face
😆
The motion offense is probably more turnover prone especially when you don't have top passers like Curry and Green running the offense (people mistake their turnovers for them being turnover prone when it's more the systemic demands imo), but insofar as Summer League is to get young guys acquainted with your system, it's well worth it.
Seems to make for a shitty SL team though considering how they've barely won any games in the past three seasons lol. Also perhaps a reason why the Warriors don't seem to have many interesting non-already in the Warrior organization guys (except maybe Perry)?
I like your read on it. Perhaps cunning by Udoka, as be tries to make a good first impression and rebuild his rep.
Raptors, Hornets, and Warriors are 0-4 after tonight.
So being on the road for all but the last few minutes of the game was the best choice.
Dubs should have taken Cam, not Podz. A missed opportunity. What a weak showing for them in SL.
I would’ve taken Cam personally, but it is WAY too early to say who the right pick was. And summer league is far from being a solid indicator, as has been well established.
Cam's floor is way higher than Podz. That alone warranted the pick, not to mention his ceiling. Plus, the positional advantage it would give us having a player like him. Of course, if you only like guard play, that's what we've got already.
Like I said I would’ve taken Cam too. But there’s a reason that he dropped from being projected as the #5 pick all the way down to #20. The health questions and/or personal problems need to be heavy to make something like that happen.
Don't believe everything you read.
Great advise, I don’t believe you.
In Northern Michigan right now near Traverse City. Been in low 70s all week. Im dreading going back to Missouri tomorrow
Ha ha. There are no medical reports about a degenerative condition. Rockets did the homework and said rumors were unfounded. The only knock that persisted was his attitude. Ask Draymond if his attitude prevented him from playing in the NBA?
What exactly should I not be believing? His basketball skill alone led to him being projected at #5 in the draft, and something led to him dropping to #20. Is there something other than health and personal issues that could warrant something like that?
Perception fickle. Rumors are speculation. Look at the way this guy plays. Maybe he had an injury in the past. So did Curry. So have many top NBA players. You fix them. If it is unfixable, that's a different story.
It looked like it based on this game.
Not only this game.
Fuck off Rockets. No record for you!!