Not too worried about Podz and his lack of right hand and that random ending floater so long as he puts his work in at the lab. Pick and roll Perry opened my eyes and could have scored even more had his teammates found him.
Given how we like to decide if draft picks are good or bad based on their summer league performance a couple weeks after being drafted, it made me think of a fun (but totally unrealistic) summer league/draft re-work.
- Summer league is only draft-eligible guys, and occurs BEFORE the draft
- the league will consist of 6 teams, headed by NBA coaches who volunteer/are selecting to participate
- coaches will take turns drafting out their full team from those eligible
- teams will play each other round-robin style (5 games), and and then a championship game between the top 2
- after conclusion of the league, then the regular draft occurs with our infinitely superior knowledge of how guys did in that environment
It ain't happening (most importantly because it doesn't make sense to risk injury right before the draft), but wouldn't that be entertaining?? Better than the in-season tournament for sure. And thn for all of us who don't watch college ball, we could watch a few games and pretend like we gained valuable insight and curse the GM even more when they don't pick who we liked.
Kind of like a souped up version of the scrimmages that happen at the NBA Combine… There are new rules making it required for draftees to go to the Combine to be measured and have medical checkups. But participating in the scrimmages will remain optional, and I assume all projected lottery picks will not participate, since it can only hurt their reputation.
I think we should abolish our picks playing summer league mainly because of risk injury but partly because of confidence issues that may arise from them not playing commensurate to their pre draft assessment carrying over. But yeah just as importantly if a first year player is dropping 30 in SL on high efficiency you bet im paying attention just like im paying attention to how well both Lakers 2 way rookie FA signings are playing right now (shoutout to Beli for being early on Castleton)
I think that misses the point, which is for the teams to take a look at their draft picks in action, along with some G Leaguers and longshots, playing in something approximating the teams' systems, and led by coaches who in many cases will continue working with the players who stay in the system.
Right that is the point of the current summer league. I was just thinking of a fantasy alternative that would be entertaining (at least to me), but may not actually be that valuable to anyone (part of why it will not actually happen).
Edit: you could still have the existing "summer league" if you want afterward with your actual team. This I guess you could call "draft league"
I didn't say teams made decisions based on SL (certainly not on that alone), but I think I did represent the point of the thing accurately. You're pretty much saying there is no point to it. Those "weird tryouts"... well I guess those players think teams are checking them out. I don't think much of SL, although I watch some games to take a look at our young 'uns, knowing it's not a realistic environment.
Yep, completely agree. What happens in summer league stays in summer league. It's fun to get excited when someone can put good games together in that (as you described well) flawed setting, but it's good to remember the gap between SL performance and NBA reality.
Just watched the game. LQ looked like the best player out there for most of the game.
Rough night for Podz. My issue with the pick is not that he looks bad so far, which, he does (the hustle stats and the assists are nice but he just doesn't look NBA-ready athletically) - it's that they picked him as a higher-floor guy. If he's not ready to contribute to the team this year, why take him over Whitmore or Miller, two guys with way higher ceilings?
To be fair and i give full full credit to MDJ, he did state that both draft picks would not be expected to contribute meaningfully this year ie a red shirt year
He's not scoring, but he's doing other things well... Was he picked as a "higher floor" guy? I haven't really heard that... he's not the most athletic or physically imposing guy, but that's not the same as "higher floor". Whitmore fell for health reasons (and secondarily questions about his "love for the game")... he's going to look better than his draft slot until he breaks down. Miller, we'll see. The draft is always a guessing game. Sometimes you bet that you'll be able to figure out a role for that tweener 4 year college "winner", and you get a DPOY/HOFer, and sometimes you bet on the solid modern 3&D prospect and he ends up shuttling between G League & China because the 3 didn't come around and the D didn't translate.
Whitmore had medical and character red flags. Miller, I don't know, he's pretty nice. I had him higher than Podz on my board.
I do know that Summer League is a bit early to give up on players. A lot of trigger-happy people would have been weeping about wasting picks on Steph and Jordan Poole after their mediocre shooting at Summer League.
I think Podz has shown a lot more in Summer League than I was expecting in all areas except... shooting. We all agree if he doesn't get his shot together, he'll be a bust.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not giving up on him, my point was more that the pick seemed to be an overreaction of sorts to the two-timelines "failure", and perhaps I'm projecting, but it seems that they were targeting a high-floor type (also see: Jaime Jaquez) with good BB IQ, etc with the aim that he would contribute while the core is still playing at a high level.
But given that it's not likely that pick #19 will be ready to contribute right away, and Podz looks like it's gonna take time -- why not go for the top-5ish talent and go for Whitmore? I know we are dealing with imperfect information and there are all the rumors about his character and fitness and the vape or whatever, but none of that is verified. Obviously MDJ and the front office know infinitely more about all of that than I do, it's just hard from a fan's perspective to just sit back and trust everything.
Oh, and FYI, I gave up on Poole during his rookie year. I can't think of much more that surprised me that he ended up being a contributor.
I don’t understand the specific argument for Whitmore. It is well reported that multiple teams were: concerned about medical, thought he had horrible interviews, thought he had a serious problem sharing the ball. That doesn’t make the perceptions true, but it does make it true that teams thought that. Any one of those could be enough to put him below Podz in GSW’s rankings.
It's less about the performance than my incredibly amateur eye test worried about his lack of explosiveness and bounce -- obviously if he was shooting better, I'd feel better, but I'm more worried about that fact that he can't seem to beat guys or get his shot off against this level of competition. It's only 5 games, obviously, so any reaction is an overreaction.
Just saw the game. One frustrating thing is that Podziemski is supposed to have touch but he has had some really bad misses. I don't know if he's mad at his teammates after these losses but if he would score the ball a bit they'd probably be like 2-1 at worst.
Nice game from Perry. Might have gotten shortchanged on a few of those foul calls.
I'm not worried about the touch, or his offensive game really at all -- I think he's struggling to adjust to a faster pace, but will learn when he can/can't get off his floater, probably has a bit of the jitters due to getting stuffed more than he's used to, and shooting results fluctuate wildly in super small samples. I think the shot will fall, and his passing has been super impressive, good shooting and good passing should lead to good results on offense.
What frustrated me is that he's supposed to be a hustle guy, but he had some really lazy POA possessions. I know the knock on him is that he's too unathletic to play quality POA D, but to me there were a couple possessions where it didn't look like he even tried and they resulted in straight line drives to the basket.
How can you say? Rookie Wiseman never appeared in a summer league game . . . because the NBA cancelled summer league because of COVID. So the first time we saw Rookie Wiseman was a starting center for the Dubs in a real NBA game. Let's wait and see how Lively looks once he gets to the real NBA. At that point judgments will actually have possibly comparable data.
Could this explain, in part, his absence from Summer League?
anyone concerned about this:
Jackson-Davis told the San Francisco Chronicle that he's happy to be getting settled in San Francisco after a couple of months in hotels, and he's quickly adapting to Golden State’s up-tempo style,
It is a big adjustment, he said.
“The offense that I was in (at Indiana), we kind of played it slow, methodical, and this is upbeat, push the ball, push the pace,” Jackson-Davis said. “Yeah, the speed surprised me … watch it on TV and then you get out there and do it, it’s just something that you’ve got to get used to.”
Yes, we'll see ... I hope that his college experience and supposed basketball IQ will let him adapt... but it will take some time ... might be OK to not try to jump into Summer League games ... but the best way to learn is to play games...
Couldn't rise for this game so watched the highlights on youtube. Too bad Trayce didn't play. Seems like he had a minor hamstring tweak. Those trainers need training if they couldn't get him in game shape after all this time............
Reggie Perry jumped out of the box score. 20pts/17rbs. Is that a SL record for the Dubs? He'll probably be in camp this Fall.
Podz still struggling. Gleague bound. SL is a rude awakening to some. This ain't college.
If the Lakers scouting department was all that great, they might have more than one ring in the last 10 years (and that ring was cause they traded all of their youngsters away for a proven vet).
I don't think we want to get into a comparison of Lakers/Warriors history. Can you count all the rings the two clubs have earned over the years? Every team runs into bad luck for a period of time. A 10 year window is not a valid picture. 17 rings for Lakers and Boston, the two greatest franchises in the league.
I think it's a pretty valid picture, the Warriors current ownership group took over about a decade ago (+ a couple of years). What would be the point of evaluating the drafting of the previous Cohan regime? Why do I care about the rings that Boston or LA won with their previous ownership groups? That's besides the point in the OP.
Edit: Where's the bad luck for LA in getting 3 top 2 picks and a top 7 pick in a very short span of time?
If the Lakers scouting department was all that great, they might have more than one ring in the last 10 years (and that ring was cause they traded all of their youngsters away for a proven vet) and COVID caused a mid-season break which let Street Clothes heal and then they played the whole playoffs with no fans and no travel and thus reduced the wear and tear on their old team, so because of all these adjustments no one outside LA and the NBA office really counts that "title".
They traded away all their youngsters because they hitched all their wagons to an aging star. Something that ive been in the minority in saying that the Warriors should be doing instead of having been subjected to some tortuous Wiseman minutes and now Kuminga and Moody. Im telling you all we are going to do is diminish their trade value this year where they’re going to be nothing but throwaway pieces in a tradr for another aging veteran. At least the Lakers had the pieces to trade for a superstar.
EDIT: i said i was more than ok with them keeping Poole Moody Kuminga PBJ Rollins et al and running it back next year. I rarely balked at Pooles play throughout the season while others were losing their collective crud. Once they traded for 57 year old Chris Paul thats when they should have been trying to unload Moody and Kuminga for more immediate help. I still stand by that because theyre not the “immediate help”. Had to be at peace with Rollins getting traded because i knew it would take him a couple more years and have to sit here listening to some of yall gassing up Lester Q who is a nice player but will be at best a marginal role player with some other ballclub in a couple of yrs
Alex Caruso and Austin Reaves as undrafted players in recent years. Kuzma as the #27 pick. THT in the 40s (whatever you think of him, good value for where he was drafted). Probably more I'm forgetting.
The scouting department gets no credit from me for signing undrafted players who wanted to play for LA because it's a glamor market or because their games are often on TV.
There's a lot of high picks in that list, including three 2nd overall picks in Ball, Ingram, and Russell and Randall at #7. The Warriors have generally had picks much lot lower in the draft order than the Lakers have had over the last decade. I agree that Wagner and Zubac were both examples of great scouting/drafting at 25 and 32.
They had a former Laker on staff that guided them into adding Klay and Dray to Steph, Jerry West. Good to see some posters backing the Lakers as they deserve some respect instead of the cheap shots at Lebron. Warriors will be lucky to see a future as glorious as the Lakers have been.
I also wonder if the Lakers have a competitive edge with undrafted free agents and two-ways as a 'destination' similar as with free agency. If so, even if all teams have similar talent evaluation skill, they could be getting their pick of undrafted players which could tilt quality in their favor.
haven't put in the effort to review, but this analysis ranked the Raptors and Lakers as one of the top two teams between 2009-2021 in terms of 'draft skill.' The Warriors ranked around the middle in both 'draft skill' and 'draft luck.' Dallas was the penultimate in draft skill but also the third 'luckiest.'
I mean at least 3 articles first page of a google search listing Podz as 6’6
“Podziemski also grew in physical stature. When he reported to Saint John’s Northwestern, he was approximately 6’3” and 160 pounds. As a junior, he reached about 6’4” and 185 pounds. By the time he was a senior, Brandin reached 6’6” and 198 pounds. The growth in his frame and game led to Podziemski receiving a lot of interest among college basketball’s elite schools.”
I think the originating tweet was a bit in jest about Brandin being 6’6 but when his name started popping off i mostly kept hearing he was a legit 6’5. Then of course legit 6’4 In shoes but consistent thread lately seems to be that he looks and plays more like 6’3 but that may be more a product of his style and possibly his short ass arms
Google searched "Podziemski height" and I didn't see 6'6, only person I've seen who said that was this moron you linked. Regardless, there's no point of guessing once the official numbers are in.
Also, height with shoes and height without shoes have been used inconsistently for years, if he's 6'4 without shoes then he's clearly a "legit 6'5 with shoes". That's why Klay used to be listed as 6'7 but is now listed as 6'6.
> consistent thread lately seems to be that he looks and plays more like 6’3 but that may be more a product of his style and possibly his short ass arms
The consistent thread is that he's 6'4 without shoes because that's what he measured as. Also I don't get what this means, the guy averaging 7 rebounds a game so far plays like he's 6'3 in shoes?
There must be alot of morons out there cause i can link you about ten more articles listing his height at 6’6 from end of high school to college to leading up to the combine. Im not disagreeing that the man is 6’3 and change (fuck it 6’4) all im saying is that while the OP used the extreme upper limit of Podz listed height as a slight exaggeration its not without precedence because thats what several different publications had his height listed prior to the combine. In fairness, again, he went from 6’6 to 6’5 to 6’4 as he advanced to the next level but he has been referenced as 6’6 quite a few times before even leading up to the combine
Okay fine, some random sites that no one reads for pre-draft information had him at 6'6 when he was discussing college offers in 2021, while the sites people do read like the Ringer or Vecenie on The Athletic had him listed at 6'4. I can't help it if "@nikotaughtyou" doesn't know how to use the internet though.
if you're gonna dunk on someone you have to have someone to dunk on... I didn't see *anyone* say he was 6'6" and as TwoRingTest mentions below he was measured at the combine, 6'3.75"
People still often use "with shoes" measurements, so some people were saying he was 6'5"... similar to how Steph is often referred to as 6'3" despite his combine measurement of 6'2"
Alot of people were saying he was 6’5 not just some (even if referencing in shoes) but ill take his combine measurements as gospel. He doesn’t look anywhere near 6’5 in shoes though which is where he should be based on official combine measurables but thats just the visuals just like pbj looked nowhere near 6’9 cause he towered over Looney
I dunno, to me he looks about the same height as DiVincenzo (which make sense cause he is); in this game he looks to be in the same ballpark as Quiñones and Jaden Hardy... either way, 6'5" is as far away from 6'4" as it is from 6'6", if twitter dude wants to be pedantic he should at least be accurate.
This wouldn’t really change anything tbh. Undersized at SG, and just fine at PG. Will need to hit the 3 and figure out how to get his shot off to succeed at the NBA level. Also don’t really trust the source being a rando on twitter lol.
I think the originating tweet was in jest stating hes closer to 6’3 than he is to a previous listed height taller than that. The person who quote tweeted simply made the point that the Warriors FO has had more misses than makes during the Steph Curry Prime years and I can’t really disagree with him.
Well, it's odd. If the point the guy doing the quote tweet was trying to make is that the Lakers make better picks, why quote tweet that comment, if it's not relevant to your point?
Regardless, a tempest in a teapot. The Dubs knew his height. There are reasons to be skeptical of the Podz pick or the Warriors drafting ability ... but that's not one of them.
Especially teams consistently drafting in the late 20s because they have a generational talent on the team. Almost a tautology to say that a team that's really good has a lot of misses in the draft... *and* all that said, they still got Looney at 30 and JP at 28.
I think BP has taken generally good shots that he should be able to make. So I’m not worried about him getting shots.
He’s also been able to create off the dribble and made some excellent reads and passes.
So it’s just a matter of settling down, getting used to the new situation and getting some confidence. Kind of like J Poole before he got sent to the G League.
Podz's shot didn't fall and got a bit passive for stretches. Might be his worst game of Summer League. But I like that he upped his intensity in the late game despite knowing things weren't going well. Would be a lot more alarmed if he sulked and gave up.
I'm told free throw % is a better indicator of long term 3 point potential, and he was 'only'
77%...so maybe we shouldn't be surprised. Interesting that Jaime Jacquez, who I think they really wanted, was also 77% from the line...though his 3 point % was just 31.7. (Podz was 43.8)
77% is still very solid, and there are some elite 3pt shooters with only decent FT%s (Joe Ingles and Joe Harris come to mind). Podz could definitely go either way with his small college sample size, but the ridiculous 43.8% and solid FT% give me hope, along with Adam Spinella draft analysis: "terrific C&S threat," "Has deep range when he has space," "Automatic when left wide open," "King of the swish. So many clean makes."
I think he'll be a solid to plus shooter personally.
My main takeaway is that NCAA 3p% and ft% both have about the same correlation to NBA 3p%.
It makes sense that a good shooter can make both shots well, so I'd expect to see collinearity, where if you're good at FTs you'd be likely decent at the 3pers and vice versa.
That said, I think the reason ft% is often used is because you typically have more ft shots than 3p shots. That would mean your ft% is a less noisy indicator of your shooting ability. Otoh, didn't Podz make more 3pers than FTs last season?
I wonder what the predictability is if you distinguish catch-and-shoot threes from threes off the dribble. My hypothesis is that college free throw percentage correlates with NBA catch-and-shoot threes more than it does with NBA threes off the dribble. Any way to assess that (i.e., where can I get the data)?
Didn't watch this game, bur from what I've seen of the earlier ones he seems to be pressing to do a bit (or a lot) of everything... and his shot has suffered .
He's a 20 year old with one year as a starter on a mid major team. Gui and LQ are far more experienced (a year in the G league is far more intense than a college season). MDJ said he probably wouldn't play this year. Let's give the 19th pick a g league season before calling him a bust. MOST 19th picks don't make it.
#StillSummerLeague but starting to be a bit worried about Podz ability to get his shots off at the next level. Thinking he'll spend a lot of time with the Sea Dubs this year
I think I've revised my best guess at his ceiling down to 'solid backup PG', but even that could be wrong.
It will be much more interesting to see how he looks a couple of weeks into preseason, once he's had some time to absorb the system , and he's playing with guys who know (more or less) where to be. Then his passing will look better, and getting a few screens should help his shooting.
How about a 3 minute OT and if the score is still tied, next point wins it -- either a FG or FT. That would put a lot of pressure on defenders not to foul and would be fun to watch.
Not too worried about Podz and his lack of right hand and that random ending floater so long as he puts his work in at the lab. Pick and roll Perry opened my eyes and could have scored even more had his teammates found him.
Given how we like to decide if draft picks are good or bad based on their summer league performance a couple weeks after being drafted, it made me think of a fun (but totally unrealistic) summer league/draft re-work.
- Summer league is only draft-eligible guys, and occurs BEFORE the draft
- the league will consist of 6 teams, headed by NBA coaches who volunteer/are selecting to participate
- coaches will take turns drafting out their full team from those eligible
- teams will play each other round-robin style (5 games), and and then a championship game between the top 2
- after conclusion of the league, then the regular draft occurs with our infinitely superior knowledge of how guys did in that environment
It ain't happening (most importantly because it doesn't make sense to risk injury right before the draft), but wouldn't that be entertaining?? Better than the in-season tournament for sure. And thn for all of us who don't watch college ball, we could watch a few games and pretend like we gained valuable insight and curse the GM even more when they don't pick who we liked.
Kind of like a souped up version of the scrimmages that happen at the NBA Combine… There are new rules making it required for draftees to go to the Combine to be measured and have medical checkups. But participating in the scrimmages will remain optional, and I assume all projected lottery picks will not participate, since it can only hurt their reputation.
…or their bodies
I think we should abolish our picks playing summer league mainly because of risk injury but partly because of confidence issues that may arise from them not playing commensurate to their pre draft assessment carrying over. But yeah just as importantly if a first year player is dropping 30 in SL on high efficiency you bet im paying attention just like im paying attention to how well both Lakers 2 way rookie FA signings are playing right now (shoutout to Beli for being early on Castleton)
I think that misses the point, which is for the teams to take a look at their draft picks in action, along with some G Leaguers and longshots, playing in something approximating the teams' systems, and led by coaches who in many cases will continue working with the players who stay in the system.
Right that is the point of the current summer league. I was just thinking of a fantasy alternative that would be entertaining (at least to me), but may not actually be that valuable to anyone (part of why it will not actually happen).
Edit: you could still have the existing "summer league" if you want afterward with your actual team. This I guess you could call "draft league"
I didn't say teams made decisions based on SL (certainly not on that alone), but I think I did represent the point of the thing accurately. You're pretty much saying there is no point to it. Those "weird tryouts"... well I guess those players think teams are checking them out. I don't think much of SL, although I watch some games to take a look at our young 'uns, knowing it's not a realistic environment.
Yep, completely agree. What happens in summer league stays in summer league. It's fun to get excited when someone can put good games together in that (as you described well) flawed setting, but it's good to remember the gap between SL performance and NBA reality.
Just watched the game. LQ looked like the best player out there for most of the game.
Rough night for Podz. My issue with the pick is not that he looks bad so far, which, he does (the hustle stats and the assists are nice but he just doesn't look NBA-ready athletically) - it's that they picked him as a higher-floor guy. If he's not ready to contribute to the team this year, why take him over Whitmore or Miller, two guys with way higher ceilings?
To be fair and i give full full credit to MDJ, he did state that both draft picks would not be expected to contribute meaningfully this year ie a red shirt year
He's not scoring, but he's doing other things well... Was he picked as a "higher floor" guy? I haven't really heard that... he's not the most athletic or physically imposing guy, but that's not the same as "higher floor". Whitmore fell for health reasons (and secondarily questions about his "love for the game")... he's going to look better than his draft slot until he breaks down. Miller, we'll see. The draft is always a guessing game. Sometimes you bet that you'll be able to figure out a role for that tweener 4 year college "winner", and you get a DPOY/HOFer, and sometimes you bet on the solid modern 3&D prospect and he ends up shuttling between G League & China because the 3 didn't come around and the D didn't translate.
Whitmore had medical and character red flags. Miller, I don't know, he's pretty nice. I had him higher than Podz on my board.
I do know that Summer League is a bit early to give up on players. A lot of trigger-happy people would have been weeping about wasting picks on Steph and Jordan Poole after their mediocre shooting at Summer League.
I think Podz has shown a lot more in Summer League than I was expecting in all areas except... shooting. We all agree if he doesn't get his shot together, he'll be a bust.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not giving up on him, my point was more that the pick seemed to be an overreaction of sorts to the two-timelines "failure", and perhaps I'm projecting, but it seems that they were targeting a high-floor type (also see: Jaime Jaquez) with good BB IQ, etc with the aim that he would contribute while the core is still playing at a high level.
But given that it's not likely that pick #19 will be ready to contribute right away, and Podz looks like it's gonna take time -- why not go for the top-5ish talent and go for Whitmore? I know we are dealing with imperfect information and there are all the rumors about his character and fitness and the vape or whatever, but none of that is verified. Obviously MDJ and the front office know infinitely more about all of that than I do, it's just hard from a fan's perspective to just sit back and trust everything.
Oh, and FYI, I gave up on Poole during his rookie year. I can't think of much more that surprised me that he ended up being a contributor.
I don’t understand the specific argument for Whitmore. It is well reported that multiple teams were: concerned about medical, thought he had horrible interviews, thought he had a serious problem sharing the ball. That doesn’t make the perceptions true, but it does make it true that teams thought that. Any one of those could be enough to put him below Podz in GSW’s rankings.
Seeing Miller shoot the 3 like that adds salt to the wound.
> 2021 Rookie Summer League PER
> Chris Duarte 27.8
> Jalen Green 26.8
> JT Thor 26.5
> Cam Thomas 26.1
> Herb Jones 12.9
> Franz Wagner 11.5
> Evan Mobley 9.2
https://twitter.com/deanondraft/status/1678918084328054784
It's less about the performance than my incredibly amateur eye test worried about his lack of explosiveness and bounce -- obviously if he was shooting better, I'd feel better, but I'm more worried about that fact that he can't seem to beat guys or get his shot off against this level of competition. It's only 5 games, obviously, so any reaction is an overreaction.
Just saw the game. One frustrating thing is that Podziemski is supposed to have touch but he has had some really bad misses. I don't know if he's mad at his teammates after these losses but if he would score the ball a bit they'd probably be like 2-1 at worst.
Nice game from Perry. Might have gotten shortchanged on a few of those foul calls.
I'm not worried about the touch, or his offensive game really at all -- I think he's struggling to adjust to a faster pace, but will learn when he can/can't get off his floater, probably has a bit of the jitters due to getting stuffed more than he's used to, and shooting results fluctuate wildly in super small samples. I think the shot will fall, and his passing has been super impressive, good shooting and good passing should lead to good results on offense.
What frustrated me is that he's supposed to be a hustle guy, but he had some really lazy POA possessions. I know the knock on him is that he's too unathletic to play quality POA D, but to me there were a couple possessions where it didn't look like he even tried and they resulted in straight line drives to the basket.
There was one straight up blow by past his lazy defense that reeeealllly stood out in real time for me.
Also rookie Lively is way better than rookie Wiseman was.
How can you say? Rookie Wiseman never appeared in a summer league game . . . because the NBA cancelled summer league because of COVID. So the first time we saw Rookie Wiseman was a starting center for the Dubs in a real NBA game. Let's wait and see how Lively looks once he gets to the real NBA. At that point judgments will actually have possibly comparable data.
Yeah that's fair. I'm sure Lively will take his share of lumps when the regular season starts.
I do think current Lively looks better than current Wiseman does in this Summer League though.
Could this explain, in part, his absence from Summer League?
anyone concerned about this:
Jackson-Davis told the San Francisco Chronicle that he's happy to be getting settled in San Francisco after a couple of months in hotels, and he's quickly adapting to Golden State’s up-tempo style,
It is a big adjustment, he said.
“The offense that I was in (at Indiana), we kind of played it slow, methodical, and this is upbeat, push the ball, push the pace,” Jackson-Davis said. “Yeah, the speed surprised me … watch it on TV and then you get out there and do it, it’s just something that you’ve got to get used to.”
Will it be easier for him to play with CP3?
I think he's just Babyl-ing-on.
No… he’s just been injured
Yes, we'll see ... I hope that his college experience and supposed basketball IQ will let him adapt... but it will take some time ... might be OK to not try to jump into Summer League games ... but the best way to learn is to play games...
Couldn't rise for this game so watched the highlights on youtube. Too bad Trayce didn't play. Seems like he had a minor hamstring tweak. Those trainers need training if they couldn't get him in game shape after all this time............
Reggie Perry jumped out of the box score. 20pts/17rbs. Is that a SL record for the Dubs? He'll probably be in camp this Fall.
Podz still struggling. Gleague bound. SL is a rude awakening to some. This ain't college.
TJD will play tomorrow… you always want to be careful with hamstrings, so he wasn’t going to play the B2B, so might as well sit him for the front end
link to the highlights?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfA2BACSauk
thanks for the actual link 😉
Heartbreak in OT.
Youtube
😂😭😭
@JoshEberley
If the Warriors had the Lakers scouting department, Steph would have another ring
Quote Tweet
Niko
@nikotaughtyou
They was saying Podz was a 6’6 PG coming into the draft man he is all of 6’3 and that changes everything LMAOOOO
If the Lakers scouting department was all that great, they might have more than one ring in the last 10 years (and that ring was cause they traded all of their youngsters away for a proven vet).
I don't think we want to get into a comparison of Lakers/Warriors history. Can you count all the rings the two clubs have earned over the years? Every team runs into bad luck for a period of time. A 10 year window is not a valid picture. 17 rings for Lakers and Boston, the two greatest franchises in the league.
I think it's a pretty valid picture, the Warriors current ownership group took over about a decade ago (+ a couple of years). What would be the point of evaluating the drafting of the previous Cohan regime? Why do I care about the rings that Boston or LA won with their previous ownership groups? That's besides the point in the OP.
Edit: Where's the bad luck for LA in getting 3 top 2 picks and a top 7 pick in a very short span of time?
If the Lakers scouting department was all that great, they might have more than one ring in the last 10 years (and that ring was cause they traded all of their youngsters away for a proven vet) and COVID caused a mid-season break which let Street Clothes heal and then they played the whole playoffs with no fans and no travel and thus reduced the wear and tear on their old team, so because of all these adjustments no one outside LA and the NBA office really counts that "title".
FTFY
I've come around to grudgingly calling it a "title" without even applying an asterisk, but I always make sure to put "bubble" in front...
> Hard to talk trash on the Lakers
You may be right. I mean, after all, the Lakers have more Bubble-COVID titles than any other team in the league. ;-)
They traded away all their youngsters because they hitched all their wagons to an aging star. Something that ive been in the minority in saying that the Warriors should be doing instead of having been subjected to some tortuous Wiseman minutes and now Kuminga and Moody. Im telling you all we are going to do is diminish their trade value this year where they’re going to be nothing but throwaway pieces in a tradr for another aging veteran. At least the Lakers had the pieces to trade for a superstar.
EDIT: i said i was more than ok with them keeping Poole Moody Kuminga PBJ Rollins et al and running it back next year. I rarely balked at Pooles play throughout the season while others were losing their collective crud. Once they traded for 57 year old Chris Paul thats when they should have been trying to unload Moody and Kuminga for more immediate help. I still stand by that because theyre not the “immediate help”. Had to be at peace with Rollins getting traded because i knew it would take him a couple more years and have to sit here listening to some of yall gassing up Lester Q who is a nice player but will be at best a marginal role player with some other ballclub in a couple of yrs
Lakers scouting department is pretty elite although I think they picked a dud this season with Hood-Schifino.
Alex Caruso and Austin Reaves as undrafted players in recent years. Kuzma as the #27 pick. THT in the 40s (whatever you think of him, good value for where he was drafted). Probably more I'm forgetting.
EDIT: Larry Nance at #27 too.
The scouting department gets no credit from me for signing undrafted players who wanted to play for LA because it's a glamor market or because their games are often on TV.
There's a lot of high picks in that list, including three 2nd overall picks in Ball, Ingram, and Russell and Randall at #7. The Warriors have generally had picks much lot lower in the draft order than the Lakers have had over the last decade. I agree that Wagner and Zubac were both examples of great scouting/drafting at 25 and 32.
They had a former Laker on staff that guided them into adding Klay and Dray to Steph, Jerry West. Good to see some posters backing the Lakers as they deserve some respect instead of the cheap shots at Lebron. Warriors will be lucky to see a future as glorious as the Lakers have been.
I also wonder if the Lakers have a competitive edge with undrafted free agents and two-ways as a 'destination' similar as with free agency. If so, even if all teams have similar talent evaluation skill, they could be getting their pick of undrafted players which could tilt quality in their favor.
haven't put in the effort to review, but this analysis ranked the Raptors and Lakers as one of the top two teams between 2009-2021 in terms of 'draft skill.' The Warriors ranked around the middle in both 'draft skill' and 'draft luck.' Dallas was the penultimate in draft skill but also the third 'luckiest.'
https://towardsdatascience.com/which-nba-teams-are-best-at-drafting-20070ccd1702
https://braydengerrard.shinyapps.io/Draft_Scores/
Genuinely don't think I've ever seen anyone refer to Podziemski as a 6'6 PG, the fuck? He's 6'4, I don't know why people can't just read this website:
https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-anthro?SeasonYear=2023-24&dir=D&sort=HEIGHT_WO_SHOES
I mean at least 3 articles first page of a google search listing Podz as 6’6
“Podziemski also grew in physical stature. When he reported to Saint John’s Northwestern, he was approximately 6’3” and 160 pounds. As a junior, he reached about 6’4” and 185 pounds. By the time he was a senior, Brandin reached 6’6” and 198 pounds. The growth in his frame and game led to Podziemski receiving a lot of interest among college basketball’s elite schools.”
https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/brandin-podziemski-a-path-to-greatness
I think the originating tweet was a bit in jest about Brandin being 6’6 but when his name started popping off i mostly kept hearing he was a legit 6’5. Then of course legit 6’4 In shoes but consistent thread lately seems to be that he looks and plays more like 6’3 but that may be more a product of his style and possibly his short ass arms
Google searched "Podziemski height" and I didn't see 6'6, only person I've seen who said that was this moron you linked. Regardless, there's no point of guessing once the official numbers are in.
Also, height with shoes and height without shoes have been used inconsistently for years, if he's 6'4 without shoes then he's clearly a "legit 6'5 with shoes". That's why Klay used to be listed as 6'7 but is now listed as 6'6.
> consistent thread lately seems to be that he looks and plays more like 6’3 but that may be more a product of his style and possibly his short ass arms
The consistent thread is that he's 6'4 without shoes because that's what he measured as. Also I don't get what this means, the guy averaging 7 rebounds a game so far plays like he's 6'3 in shoes?
https://prephoops.com/player/brandin-podziemski/
https://arizonastate.rivals.com/news/brandin-podziemski-talks-asu-offer
https://lastwordonsports.com/basketball/2023/06/21/brandin-podziemski-draft-profile/?amp=1
https://www.yardbarker.com/college_basketball/articles/amp/brandin_podziemski_2023_nba_draft_profile/s1_17201_38942232
There must be alot of morons out there cause i can link you about ten more articles listing his height at 6’6 from end of high school to college to leading up to the combine. Im not disagreeing that the man is 6’3 and change (fuck it 6’4) all im saying is that while the OP used the extreme upper limit of Podz listed height as a slight exaggeration its not without precedence because thats what several different publications had his height listed prior to the combine. In fairness, again, he went from 6’6 to 6’5 to 6’4 as he advanced to the next level but he has been referenced as 6’6 quite a few times before even leading up to the combine
Okay fine, some random sites that no one reads for pre-draft information had him at 6'6 when he was discussing college offers in 2021, while the sites people do read like the Ringer or Vecenie on The Athletic had him listed at 6'4. I can't help it if "@nikotaughtyou" doesn't know how to use the internet though.
> There must be alot of morons out there
Tons, in fact. Shout out Bobbita.
Harsh, bro...
Kuminga and moody might something to say about that these next couple of seasons and I welcome it!
...?
if you're gonna dunk on someone you have to have someone to dunk on... I didn't see *anyone* say he was 6'6" and as TwoRingTest mentions below he was measured at the combine, 6'3.75"
People still often use "with shoes" measurements, so some people were saying he was 6'5"... similar to how Steph is often referred to as 6'3" despite his combine measurement of 6'2"
Alot of people were saying he was 6’5 not just some (even if referencing in shoes) but ill take his combine measurements as gospel. He doesn’t look anywhere near 6’5 in shoes though which is where he should be based on official combine measurables but thats just the visuals just like pbj looked nowhere near 6’9 cause he towered over Looney
re: PBJ/Looney, this actually makes sense cause PBJ is 6'9.25" barefoot while Looney is 6'9.25" in shoes.
I dunno, to me he looks about the same height as DiVincenzo (which make sense cause he is); in this game he looks to be in the same ballpark as Quiñones and Jaden Hardy... either way, 6'5" is as far away from 6'4" as it is from 6'6", if twitter dude wants to be pedantic he should at least be accurate.
Lots of players use their "in shoes" height... this is neither novel, nor remarkable...
some other instances: Klay, Iguodala, and Kawhi are all 6'6" not 6'7", Scottie Barnes is 6'7" not 6'8", and Looney is 6'8" not 6'9"
This wouldn’t really change anything tbh. Undersized at SG, and just fine at PG. Will need to hit the 3 and figure out how to get his shot off to succeed at the NBA level. Also don’t really trust the source being a rando on twitter lol.
I mean, he was measured at the combine. No chance the Warriors wouldn't have that information. This tweet just seems inaccurate.
I think the originating tweet was in jest stating hes closer to 6’3 than he is to a previous listed height taller than that. The person who quote tweeted simply made the point that the Warriors FO has had more misses than makes during the Steph Curry Prime years and I can’t really disagree with him.
Well, it's odd. If the point the guy doing the quote tweet was trying to make is that the Lakers make better picks, why quote tweet that comment, if it's not relevant to your point?
Regardless, a tempest in a teapot. The Dubs knew his height. There are reasons to be skeptical of the Podz pick or the Warriors drafting ability ... but that's not one of them.
Every team has more misses than makes. That's how it works. EA wrote a long series about this.
Especially teams consistently drafting in the late 20s because they have a generational talent on the team. Almost a tautology to say that a team that's really good has a lot of misses in the draft... *and* all that said, they still got Looney at 30 and JP at 28.
But the Lakers crack scouting dept knew to read the combine measurements! #lightyears
I think BP has taken generally good shots that he should be able to make. So I’m not worried about him getting shots.
He’s also been able to create off the dribble and made some excellent reads and passes.
So it’s just a matter of settling down, getting used to the new situation and getting some confidence. Kind of like J Poole before he got sent to the G League.
Poole's rookie Summer League numbers:
40%/27%/79% (FG%/3P%/FT%)
2.8 RPG
1.8 APG
2.3 SPG
0.3 BPG
3.5 TOV
Terrible.
MDJ and TDJ/TJD are becoming confusing. How about Dun and Dav?
Forgot DunDun.
https://www.nba.com/news/atlanta-hawks-trae-young-too-quick-judge-young-prospect
Podz's shot didn't fall and got a bit passive for stretches. Might be his worst game of Summer League. But I like that he upped his intensity in the late game despite knowing things weren't going well. Would be a lot more alarmed if he sulked and gave up.
Thanks for the soothing balm of that link.
Summer League in Las Vegas with temperatures approaching all time highs...
Maybe he needs that soothing balm and/or two cool Heinekens...
Isn't he only 20?
Podz can rebound and pass, but he's having a really hard time scoring. Is the game too fast for him? I hope he's not a bust.
As one of the best 3-point shooters in college last year, that /should/ translate.
I'm told free throw % is a better indicator of long term 3 point potential, and he was 'only'
77%...so maybe we shouldn't be surprised. Interesting that Jaime Jacquez, who I think they really wanted, was also 77% from the line...though his 3 point % was just 31.7. (Podz was 43.8)
77% is still very solid, and there are some elite 3pt shooters with only decent FT%s (Joe Ingles and Joe Harris come to mind). Podz could definitely go either way with his small college sample size, but the ridiculous 43.8% and solid FT% give me hope, along with Adam Spinella draft analysis: "terrific C&S threat," "Has deep range when he has space," "Automatic when left wide open," "King of the swish. So many clean makes."
I think he'll be a solid to plus shooter personally.
Here's a recent analysis:
https://hoopsandhoos.substack.com/p/nba-draft-prediction-of-nba-three
My main takeaway is that NCAA 3p% and ft% both have about the same correlation to NBA 3p%.
It makes sense that a good shooter can make both shots well, so I'd expect to see collinearity, where if you're good at FTs you'd be likely decent at the 3pers and vice versa.
That said, I think the reason ft% is often used is because you typically have more ft shots than 3p shots. That would mean your ft% is a less noisy indicator of your shooting ability. Otoh, didn't Podz make more 3pers than FTs last season?
+1 for collinearity
hahaha, I should of just refreshed to see you already had the resource in hand, thanks!
I wonder what the predictability is if you distinguish catch-and-shoot threes from threes off the dribble. My hypothesis is that college free throw percentage correlates with NBA catch-and-shoot threes more than it does with NBA threes off the dribble. Any way to assess that (i.e., where can I get the data)?
Would definitely be worth looking at that if anyone finds themselves with the time, that's an interesting idea.
I'm curious if anyone has examined college FT% > 3P% as a better predictor of NBA shooting in the context of when FTA < 3PA.
We'll be lucky if he's ever as good as another alligator-armed, short, slow, first round pick by the name of Ty Jerome.
alligator-armed, lol
Didn't watch this game, bur from what I've seen of the earlier ones he seems to be pressing to do a bit (or a lot) of everything... and his shot has suffered .
He's a 20 year old with one year as a starter on a mid major team. Gui and LQ are far more experienced (a year in the G league is far more intense than a college season). MDJ said he probably wouldn't play this year. Let's give the 19th pick a g league season before calling him a bust. MOST 19th picks don't make it.
If SL is too fast for him, that's worrisome. Santa Clara, eh?
early days, I'd say.
Let's see how he does in training camp. Having a summer to practice with bigger, quicker guys may help.
He doesn't do a ton of stuff really wrong ... it's just not working for him because these guys are quick enough to get to his flip shots and passes.
And, he's usually in position on defense.
Hope really hard.
#StillSummerLeague but starting to be a bit worried about Podz ability to get his shots off at the next level. Thinking he'll spend a lot of time with the Sea Dubs this year
Trade him for a second round pick while you can.
grrrreat....
Lol. Well...
I didn't mind that Elam ending. Pretty random though.
That last Pods shot attempt was godawful
he was 1 of 10 in this game. i thought this guy could score.
And the 1 was on a goal tend.
Yeah, that was a gift
ALL of his shots were gawdawful. No chance he scores unless there's a goal tend.
It's really disappointing. Nothing he does well matters if he can't shoot.
I didn't see him do anything well today.
He did have 7 assists and 5 boards, and some of his passes were nice. I know it's SL, his first pro games, but so far I'm disappointed.
I saw him make some good passes
I guess I missed anything good he did today. Total bust to my eyes.
Early days, Dilly.
I think I've revised my best guess at his ceiling down to 'solid backup PG', but even that could be wrong.
It will be much more interesting to see how he looks a couple of weeks into preseason, once he's had some time to absorb the system , and he's playing with guys who know (more or less) where to be. Then his passing will look better, and getting a few screens should help his shooting.
Rather than have an Elam ending, I propose that if the score is tied at the end of regulation, each team's next game is cut by 2 minutes.
We've had like one bucket and 15 million foul shots in overtime? That's fun basketball.
How about a 3 minute OT and if the score is still tied, next point wins it -- either a FG or FT. That would put a lot of pressure on defenders not to foul and would be fun to watch.