Finally catching up here at DNHQ. Great Dubs win - missing 2 best players on offense. Great demoralizing Griz loss - fully healthy except for a rusty Bane.
One of many favorite plays was Draymond making sure JJJ picked up his 4th foul early in the 2nd half, so he was riding the bench for most of the 2nd half instead of mucking up the Dubs' offense. Great vet move!!
I thought most of the Ts were BS. I am never a fan of Marc Davis reffing the Dubs. Seems like a nice enough guy when he's not working. But there seems to be a definite agenda by the league when it comes to calling any game the Warriors play.
I yelled softly at my tv several times so as not to wake 3 mostly sleeping kittens. Being surrogate parent to 4-wk-old furrballls is a challenge 9 days in. They are getting more active with every day. I don't get much else done. But I did have ice cream after they had their late meal last night.
DANGIT!! Wasn't thinking of Warriors when I was coming up with names. Smokie, Opie & Bess. Smokie & Opie are part Siamese. Smokie is very lightly gray all over w/darker gray on his ears & tail. Opie has orange on his ears & tail. Bess is a brown & tan tabby.
The thing is... Last year's team won every statement game. Crush Phoenix on Christmas was the sweetest example but every time they were faced with a regular season "test" on national TV, Draymond played great and they won.
Given the parity in both divisions this year but especially in the West, it feels like they can be in the top 4 by the time this home stand ends (and Steph and Wiggins come back). Meanwhile, everyone (but maybe JMG) are earning coach's trust, Poole is balling (from 2 and the ft line) and the puppies are growing up.
What is interesting is watching Kuminga's scoring come down but his impact growing as the season progresses. Sure, I would love to see him put his head down and get to the basket more but he is probably playing better basketball by moving it to the next guy and driving/getting fouled when the clock is running down.
On Kuminga I think a huge part of his changing focus is due to coaching. Coach says - try to play hero ball and run into huge traffic and you will sit.
He doesn't have the skills to make plays like this consistently and they don't have the rope to let the young guys experiment so I think Kerr just wants to drill Kuminga's role into his head.
Kuminga does NOT have the handle yet. Now that teams have film on him, he's not going to surprise people anymore, and defenders are looking for his primary moves (e.g. spin move).
> What is interesting is watching Kuminga's scoring come down but his impact growing as the season progresses.
It's a coincidence that has to do with Curry's absence imo. Kuminga is a finisher on offense who can take advantage of holes in the defense, but with Curry out there are fewer holes. When Curry comes back, it'll benefit a lot of guys and Kuminga will be one of them.
And Tatum just has bad nights against the Warriors… and Ja ridiculously chose to chuck 10 3PA (where he’s less efficient) instead of driving to the basket (where he’s #unstoppablebaby)… so dumb. Or maybe the Warriors game plan has something to do with it all…
I’d postulate that Klay’s inefficiency is bouyed by some sort of Kobe effect in that he’s taking a bunch of tough shots, but the defense is so drawn to him, that it’s still positive overall for the offense.
Hearing Booker left the game after playing only 4m because he reinjured his groin really makes me appreciate how the Warriors are taking care with Wiggins by holding him back…
They apparently hate traveling, so they hired the body doubles to go out and imitate them on the road. But as you say, it's a pretty poor imitation. The guy they threw out of Chase for pretending to be Klay is getting his revenge by playing Klay as a conscienceless chucker.
So I didn't watch the game, but I went over the highlights, then zoomed in on NBA.com and watched a few of Wiseman's plays over the night, including the one Joe posted.
He was phenomenal (for him - I know, it's a low bar) on defense tonight. I went through all his plays for the first quarter. For each and every defensive assignment, he seemed to know where he needed to be. 13 of the plays, he was pretty much exactly where he needed to be, either setting a good screen or correctly executing help defense. I counted 6 plays where he looked a bit lost, 5 of them on offense (he does need more reps with Poole - def a few crossed wires to end the quarter there). The only defensive play I think he messed up was the missed Aldama 3 in transition with 2:44 left. He needed to pick up Aldama in transition, and instead stayed in the paint. Thankfully Jerome ran cross-court to contest Aldama, he missed, and Wise battled Clarke to nab the board. I also watched the linked Joe tweet that highlights Wiseman's amazing defensive positioning during that play. Overall, Wise seemed to have a much better understanding of where he needed to be on help defense. He knew where to rotate, who to pick up (usually), how to drop and still contest, and when to box out.
I think I have a theory on his defensive development. I don't think he ever played in a real help-defense scheme until the Dubs his first year. Remember, he only played 3 games in college, so that's not enough time to learn it, and I doubt he needed to do anything but dominate via size and athleticism in high school. However, during his first year, the team threw him into the fire, and I'm sure he was too busy trying not to drown to learn much about how to correctly rotate. So, sure he's had months and months of working with Decky on film and a few weeks on the practice court, but that can only translate so far, and shifting the talk/practice theory to a viable NBA game speed defense meant he spent many minutes looking absolutely clueless on defense as his brain tried to process too much too fast. It looks like the G league stint has finally enabled him to get to the point where all the help positioning he's learned from Decky/Dray/Loon is finally starting to show up as better defensive positioning in game. I don't want to call it instinctive for him until it shows up in a few more games, but at least for this one game, J-Wise was moving and defending the way Kerr needs him to in order to win games.
There's obviously another gear or two on the defensive side. Firstly, it does need to become purely instinctive, and he's not there yet. When he can position more instinctively, then he can start processing more subtle things better, such as who the ballhandler is, his tendencies, how much to step out and challenge, handedness preference, etc. This will change him from an average/below average defender into a plus defender. Secondly, when all of that integrates, there will be a point at which he becomes a truly plus plus defender. When he's doing all of the above more instinctually, then he will be able to start anticipating plays, and with his athleticism, actually get far enough to disrupt them. That will be All-Defense Wiseman, if he ever gets there.
On the offensive side, he seemed to have a few more lapses, as at least twice, he was in a pick and roll or screen action with Poole and the two seemed wildly out of sync. There's obviously more to learn on this end as well. But as a whole, in his performance tonight, the good definitely outweighed the bad.
If he can just play as he did tonight, he's playable as a backup C in Kerr's offense this year. He'll probably be a net negative defender, with some mental lapses from time to time, but he won't be a black hole like he was early season. Single game +/- is noisy as hell, but it's certainly agreeing with this point: Wiseman at +8 in 8 minutes tonight!
I get visions of what Wiseman could be just by watching him run the floor. You just don't see that many 7 foot guys out running everybody. If he (and the rest of the team) ever really figures out what he is supposed to do when he gets there, he will be a force.
It’s also something that the warriors have never had before, so prob don’t look for it or leverage as much… he’s also got to really focus on rebounding to the end of the possession first.
Excellent post, and much appreciated attention to the details of JW’s play. I hope JMG isn’t feeling too bad but his Covid symptoms linger for a few weeks. Wiseman is clearly getting all of his minutes.
No, the whole defend without fouling thing (or set a screen) seems to be the lesson JMG refuses to learn. He has looked good in 3-4 games this season and terrible in the rest.
Every so often, even a great team has a bad game when nobody seems to make the right decision. Tonight's Razzie award goes to the referee team. Bad doesn't even begin to describe it.
Klay getting Kuminga’s foul shots was fun! And the refs talking about it then giving Klay the ball back for the second shot was a nod to screwing up with confidence being their primary directive. That seemed to lead into lots of soft techs.
I think the refs got most of the calls right in a game that was probably harder than average to call due to the nature of the rivalry between these teams. Like always, they missed some calls (one way or the other) and at times it felt unfair. The early fouls on Draymond and DiVincenzo, vs no-calls on Poole getting whacked, felt dumb. They did, critically (and IMO more consistently in the second half) let a lot of incidental or marginal contact go uncalled, which is a relief, *and* they called fouls on off-ball movement, which hugely benefits the Warriors offense in particular since it's so dependent on off-ball movement. The Ja missed dunk was a very interesting no-call since he kind of pushed off (up off of) Lamb to get so high, so the fact that he created/amplified the contact but got nothing of it means by the spirit of the rules it's actually very fair to not call it; but perhaps that's too creative since most people just see a collision and rightly figure it has to be a foul one way or the other, by the letter of the rules.
The refs had a few obvious screwups that the ESPN/ABC broadcasting team was perhaps even too eager to call them out on. That's not a good thing for either side but it would be less of a story if ESPN's crew was more tactful about it. More frustratingly, the refs made the choice to call technicals rather abruptly on players who expressed momentary frustration that did not look dangerous or out of control (to me). The taunting technical on Klay was well deserved (also the taunting was well deserved), but Poole and Kuminga got ripped off.
mDuo you ref apologist! So biased! Clearly it was an evil plot to screw the Dubs!
Just kidding. I think this is a pretty fair point of view on what went wrong with the reffing and what didn’t. The JP and JK techs were absurd to me, for sure.
But otherwise this was a really physical game with lots of contact on both sides that the reds decided early to let pass. Then things just got messy, chippy and chirpy. Badly officiated game.
I had to watch the game on tape delay. Just finished. Man, I wish I was here with you guys for this one.
I just felt we were going to take this. Sure it was nice to slap Memphis around but this was more of a game to show the league we are not dead. That celebration after the game was pent up frustration from this season..
What was said so beautifully earlier “Keep Calm and Curry On.” Love it.
These next 7 home games will probably determine whether the Dubs can sneak out of the play-in or have to fight to make sure they get there. The West is starting to stratify, and this is probably the easiest stretch of the season. They also mark 50% of the way through the season. 5-2 should be the minimum benchmark of satisfying.
I know we're hoping for .500 play until Steph comes back but if we see more performances like tonight we might be in for a good surprise especially with Wiggins returning.
Finally catching up here at DNHQ. Great Dubs win - missing 2 best players on offense. Great demoralizing Griz loss - fully healthy except for a rusty Bane.
One of many favorite plays was Draymond making sure JJJ picked up his 4th foul early in the 2nd half, so he was riding the bench for most of the 2nd half instead of mucking up the Dubs' offense. Great vet move!!
I thought most of the Ts were BS. I am never a fan of Marc Davis reffing the Dubs. Seems like a nice enough guy when he's not working. But there seems to be a definite agenda by the league when it comes to calling any game the Warriors play.
I yelled softly at my tv several times so as not to wake 3 mostly sleeping kittens. Being surrogate parent to 4-wk-old furrballls is a challenge 9 days in. They are getting more active with every day. I don't get much else done. But I did have ice cream after they had their late meal last night.
DANGIT!! Wasn't thinking of Warriors when I was coming up with names. Smokie, Opie & Bess. Smokie & Opie are part Siamese. Smokie is very lightly gray all over w/darker gray on his ears & tail. Opie has orange on his ears & tail. Bess is a brown & tan tabby.
Thanks Joshua. California über alles
The thing is... Last year's team won every statement game. Crush Phoenix on Christmas was the sweetest example but every time they were faced with a regular season "test" on national TV, Draymond played great and they won.
Given the parity in both divisions this year but especially in the West, it feels like they can be in the top 4 by the time this home stand ends (and Steph and Wiggins come back). Meanwhile, everyone (but maybe JMG) are earning coach's trust, Poole is balling (from 2 and the ft line) and the puppies are growing up.
What is interesting is watching Kuminga's scoring come down but his impact growing as the season progresses. Sure, I would love to see him put his head down and get to the basket more but he is probably playing better basketball by moving it to the next guy and driving/getting fouled when the clock is running down.
Didn’t we get smacked by like all the teams we played in the playoffs last regular season? Lol
On Kuminga I think a huge part of his changing focus is due to coaching. Coach says - try to play hero ball and run into huge traffic and you will sit.
I think there is something to this. Right after this play he got benched:
https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=616&GameID=0022200496&Season=2022-23&flag=1&title=Kuminga%20Out%20of%20Bounds%20Lost%20Ball%20Turnover%20(P3.T10)
He doesn't have the skills to make plays like this consistently and they don't have the rope to let the young guys experiment so I think Kerr just wants to drill Kuminga's role into his head.
He's definitely on a very short leash. Two? games ago, Kerr yanked him immediately twice after taking some not-very-smart-shots.
Yep. A teaching moment. As in, teacher smacks wrist with ruler.
Kuminga does NOT have the handle yet. Now that teams have film on him, he's not going to surprise people anymore, and defenders are looking for his primary moves (e.g. spin move).
Kuminga in his head is probably like "KOBE! err I mean KerrBall!"
> What is interesting is watching Kuminga's scoring come down but his impact growing as the season progresses.
It's a coincidence that has to do with Curry's absence imo. Kuminga is a finisher on offense who can take advantage of holes in the defense, but with Curry out there are fewer holes. When Curry comes back, it'll benefit a lot of guys and Kuminga will be one of them.
Someone smart said "Curry is the System".
The Grizz didn't really play very well.
Bane definitely showed signs of rust after his injury.
JJJ is just a head-scratching player ... he looks like he should be Giannis, but just couldn't get out of his way last night with stupid fouls.
Still, a very, very good W and much needed.
And Tatum just has bad nights against the Warriors… and Ja ridiculously chose to chuck 10 3PA (where he’s less efficient) instead of driving to the basket (where he’s #unstoppablebaby)… so dumb. Or maybe the Warriors game plan has something to do with it all…
Oh, for sure. But, Bane had a bunch of wide-open looks, and JJJ was just not good last night. Not sure that the Warriors had much to do with it.
Their defense on Ja, absolutely, though. That was a scheme win.
Bane was fighting hard for those shots. JJJ gets himself in foul trouble a lot, it’s his schtick.
I’d postulate that Klay’s inefficiency is bouyed by some sort of Kobe effect in that he’s taking a bunch of tough shots, but the defense is so drawn to him, that it’s still positive overall for the offense.
Hearing Booker left the game after playing only 4m because he reinjured his groin really makes me appreciate how the Warriors are taking care with Wiggins by holding him back…
Where the heck is THIS Dubs team while their evil doppelgangers are out stankifying road games?!
They apparently hate traveling, so they hired the body doubles to go out and imitate them on the road. But as you say, it's a pretty poor imitation. The guy they threw out of Chase for pretending to be Klay is getting his revenge by playing Klay as a conscienceless chucker.
We play to the level of opponent and grandeur of moment sometimes. That's my theory on Boston game and this one.
They usually don't get three days off before a road game
Yeah ... I was wondering how much the 3 days off to prep helped. We'll find out next game!
I think you got it reverse.. Its the evil 'mwahaha' team that's clowning top teams
So I didn't watch the game, but I went over the highlights, then zoomed in on NBA.com and watched a few of Wiseman's plays over the night, including the one Joe posted.
He was phenomenal (for him - I know, it's a low bar) on defense tonight. I went through all his plays for the first quarter. For each and every defensive assignment, he seemed to know where he needed to be. 13 of the plays, he was pretty much exactly where he needed to be, either setting a good screen or correctly executing help defense. I counted 6 plays where he looked a bit lost, 5 of them on offense (he does need more reps with Poole - def a few crossed wires to end the quarter there). The only defensive play I think he messed up was the missed Aldama 3 in transition with 2:44 left. He needed to pick up Aldama in transition, and instead stayed in the paint. Thankfully Jerome ran cross-court to contest Aldama, he missed, and Wise battled Clarke to nab the board. I also watched the linked Joe tweet that highlights Wiseman's amazing defensive positioning during that play. Overall, Wise seemed to have a much better understanding of where he needed to be on help defense. He knew where to rotate, who to pick up (usually), how to drop and still contest, and when to box out.
I think I have a theory on his defensive development. I don't think he ever played in a real help-defense scheme until the Dubs his first year. Remember, he only played 3 games in college, so that's not enough time to learn it, and I doubt he needed to do anything but dominate via size and athleticism in high school. However, during his first year, the team threw him into the fire, and I'm sure he was too busy trying not to drown to learn much about how to correctly rotate. So, sure he's had months and months of working with Decky on film and a few weeks on the practice court, but that can only translate so far, and shifting the talk/practice theory to a viable NBA game speed defense meant he spent many minutes looking absolutely clueless on defense as his brain tried to process too much too fast. It looks like the G league stint has finally enabled him to get to the point where all the help positioning he's learned from Decky/Dray/Loon is finally starting to show up as better defensive positioning in game. I don't want to call it instinctive for him until it shows up in a few more games, but at least for this one game, J-Wise was moving and defending the way Kerr needs him to in order to win games.
There's obviously another gear or two on the defensive side. Firstly, it does need to become purely instinctive, and he's not there yet. When he can position more instinctively, then he can start processing more subtle things better, such as who the ballhandler is, his tendencies, how much to step out and challenge, handedness preference, etc. This will change him from an average/below average defender into a plus defender. Secondly, when all of that integrates, there will be a point at which he becomes a truly plus plus defender. When he's doing all of the above more instinctually, then he will be able to start anticipating plays, and with his athleticism, actually get far enough to disrupt them. That will be All-Defense Wiseman, if he ever gets there.
On the offensive side, he seemed to have a few more lapses, as at least twice, he was in a pick and roll or screen action with Poole and the two seemed wildly out of sync. There's obviously more to learn on this end as well. But as a whole, in his performance tonight, the good definitely outweighed the bad.
If he can just play as he did tonight, he's playable as a backup C in Kerr's offense this year. He'll probably be a net negative defender, with some mental lapses from time to time, but he won't be a black hole like he was early season. Single game +/- is noisy as hell, but it's certainly agreeing with this point: Wiseman at +8 in 8 minutes tonight!
Thanks for this detailed comment. Good stuff.
I get visions of what Wiseman could be just by watching him run the floor. You just don't see that many 7 foot guys out running everybody. If he (and the rest of the team) ever really figures out what he is supposed to do when he gets there, he will be a force.
I love watching his rim gravity warp the floor in favor of our shooters. If he can learn to play with Steph, wow.
The Mason Plumlee model. Be big, run hard in transition, rebound.
He's had a 12! year career with very limited tools, just by outworking guys on the break.
I don't think that's fair to Plumlee. He's a really good passer. He has some sweet handles too (in limited usage), just watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4922jWkEbsM
I bow to your superior Plumlee-ism.
He's always been a sneaky fave of mine, just cause he works (like many fans, I like the lunch pail guys).
Except that Wiseman can actually shoot a little bit as well.
It seems rather simple… get deep post position on a guard and force the defense to scramble for extended transition opportunities. Right?
You would think.
It’s also something that the warriors have never had before, so prob don’t look for it or leverage as much… he’s also got to really focus on rebounding to the end of the possession first.
Excellent post, and much appreciated attention to the details of JW’s play. I hope JMG isn’t feeling too bad but his Covid symptoms linger for a few weeks. Wiseman is clearly getting all of his minutes.
It won’t matter… if Wiseman is able to figure things out, he’s going to take the minutes anyways… unless JMG keeps his 3pt trending toward 40%…
We can only hope. Either situation isn’t terrible (though I’d rather see more of JW).
No, the whole defend without fouling thing (or set a screen) seems to be the lesson JMG refuses to learn. He has looked good in 3-4 games this season and terrible in the rest.
Well said and closely matches my mental notes and observations of Wiseman in this game and on the season.
Every so often, even a great team has a bad game when nobody seems to make the right decision. Tonight's Razzie award goes to the referee team. Bad doesn't even begin to describe it.
Klay getting Kuminga’s foul shots was fun! And the refs talking about it then giving Klay the ball back for the second shot was a nod to screwing up with confidence being their primary directive. That seemed to lead into lots of soft techs.
It was Wiseman’s free throws that Klay bogarted
I think the refs got most of the calls right in a game that was probably harder than average to call due to the nature of the rivalry between these teams. Like always, they missed some calls (one way or the other) and at times it felt unfair. The early fouls on Draymond and DiVincenzo, vs no-calls on Poole getting whacked, felt dumb. They did, critically (and IMO more consistently in the second half) let a lot of incidental or marginal contact go uncalled, which is a relief, *and* they called fouls on off-ball movement, which hugely benefits the Warriors offense in particular since it's so dependent on off-ball movement. The Ja missed dunk was a very interesting no-call since he kind of pushed off (up off of) Lamb to get so high, so the fact that he created/amplified the contact but got nothing of it means by the spirit of the rules it's actually very fair to not call it; but perhaps that's too creative since most people just see a collision and rightly figure it has to be a foul one way or the other, by the letter of the rules.
The refs had a few obvious screwups that the ESPN/ABC broadcasting team was perhaps even too eager to call them out on. That's not a good thing for either side but it would be less of a story if ESPN's crew was more tactful about it. More frustratingly, the refs made the choice to call technicals rather abruptly on players who expressed momentary frustration that did not look dangerous or out of control (to me). The taunting technical on Klay was well deserved (also the taunting was well deserved), but Poole and Kuminga got ripped off.
mDuo you ref apologist! So biased! Clearly it was an evil plot to screw the Dubs!
Just kidding. I think this is a pretty fair point of view on what went wrong with the reffing and what didn’t. The JP and JK techs were absurd to me, for sure.
But otherwise this was a really physical game with lots of contact on both sides that the reds decided early to let pass. Then things just got messy, chippy and chirpy. Badly officiated game.
Man, I love Christmas.
It is the most wonderful time of the year...quite literally! Happy merry!
The refs had Klay take FTs instead of Wiseman for some gawdawful reason, lol…
I had to watch the game on tape delay. Just finished. Man, I wish I was here with you guys for this one.
I just felt we were going to take this. Sure it was nice to slap Memphis around but this was more of a game to show the league we are not dead. That celebration after the game was pent up frustration from this season..
What was said so beautifully earlier “Keep Calm and Curry On.” Love it.
https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1607220100842815490?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Oh damn!
These next 7 home games will probably determine whether the Dubs can sneak out of the play-in or have to fight to make sure they get there. The West is starting to stratify, and this is probably the easiest stretch of the season. They also mark 50% of the way through the season. 5-2 should be the minimum benchmark of satisfying.
I know we're hoping for .500 play until Steph comes back but if we see more performances like tonight we might be in for a good surprise especially with Wiggins returning.
Nuggets beat the Suns 128-125 in overtime. Nuggets remain #1 in the West.
Hell of a game to cap things off.
Cant believe I watched 14 hrs of basketball. I don't regret a single minute.