454 Comments
author

Frustrating game, but do not be a jerk to other commenters. (And don’t reply to this.)

Expand full comment

Now you guys went and got Eric A mad!

What the heck?!

Can someone enlighten us: What does the avacodo represent in youth culture?

Expand full comment
Jan 17·edited Jan 17

See below. Or…

“ In conclusion, the word “avocado” has a rich and fascinating history. It originated from the Nahuatl word “ahuacatl,” which means testicle. This is a reference to the fruit’s shape and the belief that it had aphrodisiac properties. Over time, the word “avocado” evolved through different languages and cultures, and it took on various meanings and cultural significances.”

Or maybe the guy just likes avocados.

Expand full comment

Sorry if someone already posted tihis Woj comment :

"The Warriors sound like they're measuring the championship capabilities of the roster and, if they decide it cannot compete for one, may ultimately opt to shed salary at the deadline to avoid the second apron, even if it means trading away one of the three dynasty players."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJ5XSv0HnmA

Expand full comment

I really don't think they'll make any big moves of the big 3 mid-season. It's not the way the light-years Warriors or Curry operate. Any big moves in the off-season will be done in a respectful way, so that the core protects the glow of the "drafted HOFers with the 4-rings" for decades of marketing.

Expand full comment

yes, I think so too!

Expand full comment

For those of you who are following the Siakam trade rumors:

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1747429433865068649

Developing: The Raptors and Pacers are in active talks on a trade centered on two-time All-Star Pascal Siakam for package that includes three first-round picks, league sources say.

Expand full comment

3 first round picks?? Wow. If this goes through though, Pacers will be a tough team to beat. Hope we get them paired with Bucks in the playoffs

Expand full comment

Good for them, should be a good fit

Expand full comment

Who will the Pacers trade if they are going after Siakam? I think Bruce Brown, Obi Toppin, Jalen Smith, and/or Isaiah Jackson will be included in the trade.

Expand full comment

Brown and Hield?

Expand full comment

Agreed this seems likely. Not Toppin, I think they want to keep him. Hield has been shopped before.

Expand full comment

Toronto is going to come out of this in pretty good shape.

Expand full comment

Meanwhile Denver-Philly tied at 78-78 at half time - no defense on Either side but elite scoring

Expand full comment

And 35FTA! And 9 different guys making a combined 17/31 from 3… even Steph’s skill isn’t all that unique anymore, everybody can shoot

Expand full comment

#modernnba #legislatingoutdefense

Expand full comment

#changedthegameforbetterorworse

Expand full comment

I didn't realize Draymond got booed in Memphis yesterday. I hope this doesn't happen in every arena.....but of course it will right?

Expand full comment

It will... at least for 4-5 weeks.

Expand full comment

That's not good for him mentally.

Expand full comment

I think it's the opposite. Dray thrives off booing. His insecurities would set in if the opposing fans suddenly acted indifferently to him.

Expand full comment

not really - he was totally driven out of his game in Boston during the finals by the boston fans. He seems to be able to give it more than he can take it!

Expand full comment

There is a difference between booing and hurling racist slurs / threats. I assume he will get both, but a good measure more of the former.

Expand full comment

Just tell him they are saying "BLUUUUUUE!!!

Edit: Or "LOOOOOOOOON"

Expand full comment

Watching this video makes this feel worse - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm9cF2AXGmk

Expand full comment

Don't 😰 because it's over. 😌 because it happened

Expand full comment
Jan 16·edited Jan 16

So, here's a question for our capologists.

Since we're halfway through the season, what is the cap number that is used?

Do cap numbers pro-rate for the number of games left in the season? (I assume not, but who knows?)

It probably doesn't make a difference for matching salaries, but it might for calculating whether a contract can be traded into someone's cap space.

And, Sab, I don't really think Klay's going to be traded ... just curious what the answer is.

Expand full comment
author

In short, basically yes. The messy details can be found for the previous CBA by searching http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm for “pro-rate”. This reveals, for instance, that most cap exceptions pro-rate starting Jan 10. Minimum contract amounts, etc, I think pro-rate for the whole season.

Expand full comment
Jan 16·edited Jan 16

Ah, OK. Thanks!

And if I read it right, it sounds like if we trade Klay's salary (into cap space), rather than just let his contract expire, our luxury tax for this year goes down, since the luxury tax number is assessed on the last day of the regular season.

So there is some incentive to trade Klay at the deadline.

Expand full comment

But how do we trade him into cap space? Taking on matching expirings wouldn’t give them any relief.

Expand full comment
Jan 16·edited Jan 16

Yeah, you're right. According to Spotrac, there are only three teams with cap, and none of them have $20 mil +, so that may have been a silly thing to think about.

If we have to take contracts back, the only relief would be if they were non-guaranteed, and we could waive the players. Which would be pretty unlikely for a $40 mil contract.

Or if we take back a salary somewhat less (10% or whatever the matching rules say now), and that's enough to drop us below the second apron, that might be useful. I doubt that is the case, but I'm not sure.

Expand full comment

BUt if we want to shed salary we already have 2 giant expiring contracts in Klay and CP0 ...

Expand full comment

Kings head coach Mike Brown has been fined $50,000 for "aggressively pursuing a game official during live play, and for publicly criticizing the officiating."

https://twitter.com/nbapr/status/1747358130911031718

Expand full comment
Jan 16Liked by punk basketball

When he brought the computer to the press conferenc, he should’ve said, “I’ll take the blame for this loss as I should’ve challenged the following plays…” so it couldn’t have been considered “criticizing the officiating“. 🙂

Expand full comment

Imagine the coach/player replay ballyhoo if Pat Bev played for Mike Brown?!

Expand full comment
Jan 16·edited Jan 16Liked by punk basketball

I'm now in full preparation mode for the possibility that Klay's going to get traded.

11 moments of silence please. 😞

Expand full comment

Maybe he’d be happier, or reenergized. One doesn’t always know how these things turn out. If he put the Bulls over the top for a chip as their big three point gunner he’d probably feel pretty cool about that

Expand full comment

Maybe. But boating on Lake Michigan would be a whole lot colder and rougher than boating on the Bay.

Expand full comment

He could take up ice boating up there.

Expand full comment

One winter of that, and he'll sign with the Lakers in the summer.

Expand full comment

Who has enough cap space that would let them duck anything this year?

Trading expirings to save money seems like a reporter rushing or a blogger who hasn’t done the math comment.

So not having done the math myself:

Getting off of the rest of Dray’s and Wiggins contracts would make a ton more sense in the money saving department.

Expand full comment

Yeah, people keep missing that the way to shed salary (if that’s the objective) with CP3 and Klay is to hold onto them until the off-season.

Expand full comment

Not for this season, which has the highest payroll in history. If you trade Klay to a team under the cap, you can accept less back... If you accept $7M less back and that lets Lacob reduce the lux tax at the 8x level, that saves $63M total. I'm not advocating for it, and I don't think the Warriors are looking to shed salary explicitly, but there are ways...

Expand full comment

looks like that is what Woj also said today:

The Warriors sound like they're measuring the championship capabilities of the roster and, if they decide it cannot compete for one, may ultimately opt to shed salary at the deadline to avoid the second apron, even if it means trading away one of the three dynasty players.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJ5XSv0HnmA

Expand full comment

Am I reading it right that the Warriors have to go from 208 to 182 to get under the second apron? That just doesn’t seem possible in season.

Expand full comment

This. Trading Klay is not about saving money. We let him walk to save money. A trade only makes sense if we get back someone who can help us this season and/or picks. The other team does it because they think they can re-sign Klay at a lower price or want to save money when his deal expires.

We would trade Wiggs or Dray to get assets we want, not to save money, unless we get expiring deals back. We can get expiring deals only if the other team thinks Wiggs or Dray will make a difference for them and that Wiggs just needs a change of scenery and Draymond will stay under control. But getting expiring deals back probably means taking on the other team's rejects and blowing off this season.

Expand full comment

Exactly.

I think this is a "any one or all of Wiggs, CP3, and Dray" could be moved statement.

Expand full comment

For what? There is no reason for this team to throw away draft picks to get rid of Klay 1/2 season early. No one is going to want him tight now for something valuable to the Warriors so he's not getting traded (unless MDJ is an idiot or some other GM is an idiot and is willing to give something of value for Klay).

Expand full comment

Who knows... Klay & Wiggins for LaVine & DeRozan works salary wise... reduces Chicago's salary burden next year...

Expand full comment

Yeah, but makes our salary burden worse AND probably doesn't make us better. If we're gonna panic, let's let Klay and CP0 walk and use that money on a player that helps us next season.

Expand full comment

Without CP3 & Klay, we're at $144M committed next year. I think we'd have the $13M NTPMLE available... but bird rights on Klay. Are we really going to be able to do better than re-signing Klay?

(https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/GSW.html)

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/07/values-of-2023-24-mid-level-bi-annual-exceptions.html

Expand full comment
Jan 17·edited Jan 17

Maybe not. I'm not arguing against re-signing Klay at a reasonable rate. I am arguing against trading Klay for a longer contract the size of Klays that we'd be stuck with for longer. (e.g. Lavine).

Edit: (re-read your earlier post) oh I see what you meant. yeah someone would take Klay if the deal was good for them, but then it won't be good for us so we wouldn't do it. I don't see an everybody's happy trade involving Klay right now, ergo, Sab does not need to stress.

Expand full comment

Dunleavy also has to ask himself "What would Threesus do?"

Expand full comment

Dennis Schroeder, Donte DiVincenzo, Gabe Vincent, Georges Niang are the 4 players signed before this season using all or part of the full MLE > TPMLE.

Is one of these types of guys is going to put us over the hump and MORE THAN compensate for the loss of both Klay and CP3?

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/07/how-teams-are-using-2023-24-mid-level-exceptions.html

Expand full comment

Bulls do essentially have the same record as us without Steph and Draymond, sooo maybe itd be better than us now

Expand full comment

No way they trade for LaVine's contract if they want to get off of salary. That contract is a boat anchor.

I'm sure part of what they will do is try to make room for Moody's and Kuminga's second contracts. LaVine's contract would make that very difficult ($50 mil three years from now).

Expand full comment

Klay/Wiggs for Lavine/DeRozan is an interesting one... It's more salary owed in the future, but only $20M more... but it's also probably a significant upgrade on this year's team (ducks)... I have no faith in LaVine defensively... but compared to what Klay & Wiggins are giving us, is it even a drop off? Sigh...

Expand full comment
Jan 16·edited Jan 16

They only want to get off salary if we aren’t going to win

I did not realize Lavines contract is so crazy though

Expand full comment
Jan 16·edited Jan 16

Along with what Attila says, if you are over the second apron for a while, your picks move to the back of the round.

The second apron is less about monetary penalties and more about making the competitive penalties so steep a team won't choose to go over it.

Expand full comment
Jan 16·edited Jan 16

The Dubs need to get below the 2nd tax apron or it will not only get super expensive, we will not be able to do things like sign buy-out players and use taxpayer exceptions. That's apparently one reason for the JP-for-CP3 deal; letting CP3 walk helps get us there.

Expand full comment

I have this same worry...

Expand full comment

I read these comments with a heavy heart. It's tough to face father time, but I would rather be wrong and hold on to this group too long than to blow it up and regret it later.

Expand full comment

This is exactly where I'm at. The 4 pathways*:

Keep the Core** and we succeed*** = ✅

Keep the Core and we don't = No Regrets as no one's gonna get fired for keeping the core if they are healthy and able. We owe them that****

Lose the Core and we succeed = ✅

Lose the Core and we don't = Regrets

Only one of those options has regrets*****

*I know I'm dumbing it way down

**#30

*** Remain competitive in the Playoffs

**** There will aways be Rebuilds. There will not be another Steph Curry.

***** There will be the, "What if Steph got traded and won a chip with another team?". Well, if Mr Curry wants that, Mr Curry will get that so it's not an option for us to debate.

Expand full comment

Inflammatory WOJ report imminent....

Expand full comment
Jan 16Liked by Eric Apricot

For now here's someone's interpretation of the report...

https://www.reddit.com/r/warriors/comments/198cop5/wojnarowski_the_warriors_sound_like_theyre/

Expand full comment
author

I was braced for some flames, but I find that report quite mild. The front office BETTER be weighing the trade value of everyone on the roster, except Steph.

(Trading Steph would be commercial suicide as well as probably performance suicide.)

I don’t think you can decide from first principles whether to trade the young guys, the old guys, everybody or nobody. All arguments in these different directions have merit.

I think it’s going to come down to the precise trades they are offered, and we’ll never know the details of that. And that is very volatile, given you only need one GM to overvalue or undervalue a player to cause chaos.

Expand full comment

This reasoning seems flawed, because getting under the apron for this year would require trading some massive contracts into another team's cap space, and I don't think there's a team in the league with enough. Whereas getting under the apron for next year doesn't require a trade at all, because Klay and CP3 are expiring...

Expand full comment

With the way the Warriors have been playing and where they are right now (12th in the West!!!!!!!), they might as well punt the season away. Way too many things have gone wrong this season, so they might as well go under the second apron to see how things will look like in the next season.

Expand full comment

I have the Warriors only solution at saving the season and making it exciting and hopefully successful.

They have no identity. Their best quality is they are very deep. They are undersized.

Kerr needs to do this…..

12 man rotation.

Everyone knows they are playing and their role.

No more worshiping the trio of Steph,Klay,DG.

Pick up full court.

All out transition game shooting open 3’s and attacking the rim relentlessly.

Curry 30 minutes

DG 20 to 24

JK 20 to 24

Klay 20 to 24

Wigs 20 to 24

Podz 20 to 24

Paul 20 to 24

Payton 20 to 24

TJD 16 to 20

Saric 16 to 20

Moody 16 to 20

Looney 8 to 16

Minutes can vary if someone is having a hot night or stinking it up.

Everyone plays with high intensity and they become a team of more equal partners.

Nobody has any right to complain about minutes, period.

If Klay doesn’t like it he can sulk on the bench and make nothing in his free agency.

They have no other option because their only strength this year has been their depth which has been totally screwed up by trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

Egos left at the door.

There is no possible trade that can fix this team. Any trade will require giving up their good young guys, the trade will not produce anything close to a title and their future is damaged,

The older guys will play better and harder going fewer minutes.

A lot of their best play of the season has been when Curry and or Klay have been on the bench.

Kerr will of course never do this because it is too radical for his old school mentality.

He should remember how much trouble Houston gave his greatest Warrior teams with a radical philosophy.

They simply have zero chance playing traditional NBA basketball.Zero.Absolute zero.

Expand full comment

This seemed like an asher hyperbole and sarcasm comment 😂

Expand full comment

I would enjoy watching that team!

Expand full comment

This doesn't work. Kerr has said that Steph, Klay, Wiggs and others are rhythm players. They can't sit on the bench for extended period.

So unless you want play Klay one half and then Wiggs another half, this doesn't work.

Expand full comment

How about Klay one half quarter, Wigs one half quarter, and then 3 quarters go to players who are playing team basketball?

Expand full comment

Just trade them.

Expand full comment
Jan 16·edited Jan 16

> I have the Warriors only solution at saving the season…

“I alone can fix this”?

Expand full comment

I was being a little dramatic for effect but I guess some people see the world a certain way. Have a nice day.

Expand full comment

I like the idea and I liked the tone.

Expand full comment

👍

Expand full comment

Omniscience! Kinda wasted here.

Expand full comment

When it comes to basketball, I'm more like non-iscient.

Expand full comment

Well why don’t you explain why it is such a bad idea instead of offering up nothing?

Same with Sleepy.

Expand full comment

Just poking some fun atcha. I sure don't have the only solution. But I do want some stock tips.

Expand full comment
Jan 16·edited Jan 16

Not saying anything you wrote was a “bad idea,” necessarily — just noting that the lack of humility implicit in “I have the only solution” made me unenthused about reading it. But I’m just one dude. Other readers may enjoy that tone more.

Fwiw, I offer up my share here, but “final solutions” are above my paygrade. 😊

Expand full comment

Ok Sleepy.

It doesn’t matter but it had nothing to do with humility.

Onward.

Expand full comment

I mean its a fan board not a Presidential debate

Expand full comment
author

The DNHQ commentariat has a general culture of using evidence and respectfully understanding different perspectives. To me, this elevates it above the general Internet jackassary of people being loud and wrong and confidently pulling stuff out of their butt.

At least when people pull stuff out of their butt here, they’ll admit that’s what’s happening.

Expand full comment
Jan 16·edited Jan 16

It is way too civil around here to be a presidential debate.

Expand full comment
Jan 16·edited Jan 16

Agreed!

Expand full comment
Jan 16·edited Jan 16

Nm. (Deleted by self for hewing a bit close to “being a jerk to other commenters”).

Expand full comment

Poorest Defensive Impact per EPM (min 400 min):

https://twitter.com/NBA_University/status/1747283885736481217

1. Malaki Branham (Spurs)

2. Austin Reaves (Lakers)

3. Anfernee Simons (Blazers)

4. Pat Connaughton (Bucks)

5. James Wiseman (Pistons)

6. Cam Thomas (Nets)

7. Jordan Hawkins (Pelicans)

8. Marvin Bagley III (Wizards; formerly with the Pistons)

9. Bojan Bogdanovic (Pistons)

10. Benedict Mathurin (Pacers)

11. Tim Hardaway Jr. (Mavericks)

12. Coby White (Bulls)

13. Corey Kispert (Wizards)

14. Scoot Henderson (Blazers)

15. Keyonte George (Jazz)

16. Jordan Poole (Wizards)

17. Doug McDermott (Spurs)

18. Cameron Payne (Bucks)

19. Andrew Wiggins (Warriors)

20. Josh Richardson (Heat)

Expand full comment

And pundits were clamoring for us to make a trade for Reaves lol.

Expand full comment

That’s kind of hilarious that the Wizards just traded for an even worse defensive player than Poole. Are they trying to do something historic this year?

Expand full comment

Statmuse says that Warriors turned the ball over 15.9 times/game with Draymond in the lineup this season and 12.7 times/game without Draymond this season.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/warriors-turnovers-per-game-with-draymond-green-in-lineup-this-season

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/warriors-turnovers-per-game-without-draymond-green-in-lineup-this-season

Expand full comment

Does Steph turn the ball more with Draymond in the lineup?

Expand full comment
Jan 16·edited Jan 16

Statmuse doesn't have anything to say about it, so I checked nba.com's 2-player lineups.

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced?GroupQuantity=2&TeamID=1610612744&dir=D&slug=advanced&sort=AST_TO

Steph-Dray pairing has a 1.57 assist/turnover ratio. Also:

Green-TJD: 4.00 assist/turnover; Green-Podz: 2.64; Curry-Podz: 2.15; Curry-CP3: 2.14; Curry-Looney: 2:06; Curry-Klay: 1.95; CP3-Green: 1.82. Not sure if this is what you are looking for, though.

Expand full comment

Does this mean that TJ D should play more now that Green is back? Good because he needs more experience.

Expand full comment

To/Assist, or Assist/TO ?

Expand full comment

Oops. My bad. It's AST/TO.

Expand full comment

Thank you!

Expand full comment