“ In conclusion, the word “avocado” has a rich and fascinating history. It originated from the Nahuatl word “ahuacatl,” which means testicle. This is a reference to the fruit’s shape and the belief that it had aphrodisiac properties. Over time, the word “avocado” evolved through different languages and cultures, and it took on various meanings and cultural significances.”
Sorry if someone already posted tihis Woj comment :
"The Warriors sound like they're measuring the championship capabilities of the roster and, if they decide it cannot compete for one, may ultimately opt to shed salary at the deadline to avoid the second apron, even if it means trading away one of the three dynasty players."
I really don't think they'll make any big moves of the big 3 mid-season. It's not the way the light-years Warriors or Curry operate. Any big moves in the off-season will be done in a respectful way, so that the core protects the glow of the "drafted HOFers with the 4-rings" for decades of marketing.
Developing: The Raptors and Pacers are in active talks on a trade centered on two-time All-Star Pascal Siakam for package that includes three first-round picks, league sources say.
Who will the Pacers trade if they are going after Siakam? I think Bruce Brown, Obi Toppin, Jalen Smith, and/or Isaiah Jackson will be included in the trade.
In short, basically yes. The messy details can be found for the previous CBA by searching http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm for “pro-rate”. This reveals, for instance, that most cap exceptions pro-rate starting Jan 10. Minimum contract amounts, etc, I think pro-rate for the whole season.
And if I read it right, it sounds like if we trade Klay's salary (into cap space), rather than just let his contract expire, our luxury tax for this year goes down, since the luxury tax number is assessed on the last day of the regular season.
So there is some incentive to trade Klay at the deadline.
Yeah, you're right. According to Spotrac, there are only three teams with cap, and none of them have $20 mil +, so that may have been a silly thing to think about.
If we have to take contracts back, the only relief would be if they were non-guaranteed, and we could waive the players. Which would be pretty unlikely for a $40 mil contract.
Or if we take back a salary somewhat less (10% or whatever the matching rules say now), and that's enough to drop us below the second apron, that might be useful. I doubt that is the case, but I'm not sure.
Kings head coach Mike Brown has been fined $50,000 for "aggressively pursuing a game official during live play, and for publicly criticizing the officiating."
When he brought the computer to the press conferenc, he should’ve said, “I’ll take the blame for this loss as I should’ve challenged the following plays…” so it couldn’t have been considered “criticizing the officiating“. 🙂
I read these comments with a heavy heart. It's tough to face father time, but I would rather be wrong and hold on to this group too long than to blow it up and regret it later.
Keep the Core and we don't = No Regrets as no one's gonna get fired for keeping the core if they are healthy and able. We owe them that****
Lose the Core and we succeed = ✅
Lose the Core and we don't = Regrets
Only one of those options has regrets*****
*I know I'm dumbing it way down
**#30
*** Remain competitive in the Playoffs
**** There will aways be Rebuilds. There will not be another Steph Curry.
***** There will be the, "What if Steph got traded and won a chip with another team?". Well, if Mr Curry wants that, Mr Curry will get that so it's not an option for us to debate.
I have the Warriors only solution at saving the season and making it exciting and hopefully successful.
They have no identity. Their best quality is they are very deep. They are undersized.
Kerr needs to do this…..
12 man rotation.
Everyone knows they are playing and their role.
No more worshiping the trio of Steph,Klay,DG.
Pick up full court.
All out transition game shooting open 3’s and attacking the rim relentlessly.
Curry 30 minutes
DG 20 to 24
JK 20 to 24
Klay 20 to 24
Wigs 20 to 24
Podz 20 to 24
Paul 20 to 24
Payton 20 to 24
TJD 16 to 20
Saric 16 to 20
Moody 16 to 20
Looney 8 to 16
Minutes can vary if someone is having a hot night or stinking it up.
Everyone plays with high intensity and they become a team of more equal partners.
Nobody has any right to complain about minutes, period.
If Klay doesn’t like it he can sulk on the bench and make nothing in his free agency.
They have no other option because their only strength this year has been their depth which has been totally screwed up by trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
Egos left at the door.
There is no possible trade that can fix this team. Any trade will require giving up their good young guys, the trade will not produce anything close to a title and their future is damaged,
The older guys will play better and harder going fewer minutes.
A lot of their best play of the season has been when Curry and or Klay have been on the bench.
Kerr will of course never do this because it is too radical for his old school mentality.
He should remember how much trouble Houston gave his greatest Warrior teams with a radical philosophy.
They simply have zero chance playing traditional NBA basketball.Zero.Absolute zero.
Not saying anything you wrote was a “bad idea,” necessarily — just noting that the lack of humility implicit in “I have the only solution” made me unenthused about reading it. But I’m just one dude. Other readers may enjoy that tone more.
Fwiw, I offer up my share here, but “final solutions” are above my paygrade. 😊
The DNHQ commentariat has a general culture of using evidence and respectfully understanding different perspectives. To me, this elevates it above the general Internet jackassary of people being loud and wrong and confidently pulling stuff out of their butt.
At least when people pull stuff out of their butt here, they’ll admit that’s what’s happening.
That’s kind of hilarious that the Wizards just traded for an even worse defensive player than Poole. Are they trying to do something historic this year?
Statmuse says that Warriors turned the ball over 15.9 times/game with Draymond in the lineup this season and 12.7 times/game without Draymond this season.
Steph-Dray pairing has a 1.57 assist/turnover ratio. Also:
Green-TJD: 4.00 assist/turnover; Green-Podz: 2.64; Curry-Podz: 2.15; Curry-CP3: 2.14; Curry-Looney: 2:06; Curry-Klay: 1.95; CP3-Green: 1.82. Not sure if this is what you are looking for, though.
Potentially blashphemous: maybe Steph isn't the only way for the franchise to succeed. I don't have a trade scenario, I am not actually making a suggestion. I am asking the numbers smarties to tell me if it is true this year that having Steph seems to make us win, any more than any top 30-40 player.
Depends on how you define success, maybe? Here's the list of NBA champions from the last 40 years whose rosters didn't feature at least one MVP:
2019 Raptors
2004 Pistons
1989–90 Pistons
Admittedly, there are other examples of championship teams whose MVPs were post-prime, or who had moved into more complimentary roles. But then it's also worth pointing out that Kawhi (Raptors) and Isiah Thomas (first Pistons group) are inner-inner circle HOFers whose lack of MVP hardware is as much an oddity as anything else.
None of which is to say that championships are the only way to measure success. At this point I'd settle for five straight enjoyable games, tbh. But insofar as the team's goal is to win the big one, history is on the side of keeping Steph at the center.
Steph is not playing consistently like a top 5 or even top 10 player in todays league and given he is still our best player, that immediately puts the team in the level of poor to mediocre. On top of that, we have a coach staff who cannot remove cultural/systemic tendencies related to TOs and fouling because he only seems to know one style of playing and does to appear to be evolving to catch up with most of the league . Major cultural and player changes over the summer are needed
This is pretty much how I (as an ecologist) see it. The Warriors prevailed because ~10 yrs ago the coaching staff initiated a new system.
1. The skill sets of the players matched the system!
2. Because the system was new, competing teams were at a disadvantage.
3. there was unlimited funding to buy anything the Warriors wanted for Kerrball,
4. mainly more experienced players were added to the Warriors system. (No 2 timelines).
Now nine or so years later,
1. the skill sets of these same players no longer match this system. The OG’s are slower, less aware, less flexible, and more emotional about their situation.
2. The young, drafted (2 timeline ) players could not rapidly assume the roles of the old guys in the Kerrball system.
3. Some of the younger guys are pre-adapted to the new NBA environment, but are being asked to play Kerrball.
4. the NBA has controlled spending.
Meanwhile, background has changed:
1. teams have evolved systems based on the skill sets of their players. Many teams have younger, longer, more athletic, smart players, who can shoot the 3. There are more generalist, switchable players in positionless bball.
2. defib pointed out a while back that several teams have evolved their own schemes which have become competitive.
3. New rules favor offense.
So the league has become more diverse, with new types of players, new schemes, and an emphasis on generalists. The specialist warriors old guys may not be able to compete.
2. Surround him with guys with decent size who can shoot
3. Find a rim protector that can provide help defense at the rim
That describes pretty much every contender today... run P&R/dribble handoff action until you get an advantage either via mismatch or a defender getting caught out of position by a screen, then drive/kick/drive/kick/drive/kick until you get a decent shot, and have enough shooters on the floor that there's an open 3 available somewhere.
I think two things have changed:
1. "3&D guys" are no longer hard to find, they're everywhere. I believe their scarcity 10 years ago led young players to lean into those skills
2. Analytics suggests that reducing TOs is hugely beneficial to winning (increases scoring opportunities, decreases opponents' transition scoring opportunities, huge, huge wins). An open 3 from a 33% shooter is much better than risking a risky move to get a better look. Just take the shot, even if you miss there's an opportunity for a rebound and getting back on defense.
Homogeneous… kind of contradicts what you wrote one or two weeks ago about the different schemes that different teams were using. Perhaps it is a matter of variations on a theme. I rue the fact that I can’t discuss this using bball vocabulary.
There's different ways of "scoring well in isolation", which is where some diversity kicks in. But it's all basically the same offense... maybe I'm being reductive, but I do think having a glut of capable shooting really does emphasize a heliocentric offense way more than it used to. And you just have to look back at the Rockets, who singularly built their entire roster solely to try to beat the Warriors. How did they do that? By getting an isolation scorer, and surrounding him with as many 3&D guys as they could possibly find... and a good enough roll man/rim protector. But it was hard to gather all those guys back then, much easier now.
If we’re winning, I don’t mind. Our motion offense isn’t even pretty right now. That first half against the kings when dray came back though was peak basketball
If the NBA devolves into a formulaic thing, it will cease to draw my interest. I like the Giants... and the new rules to speed up the game are great, but the broad trend to "homers & strikeouts" is... boring.
With a supermax it’s hard to assemble a good team so the carrying must be done. But Steph has shown he has it until a recent inseason stretch. To say he’s now incapable is a bit of a stretch.
Ah well, in that case there are always unlimited paths to take into a future that is constantly evolving with each choice made. There is a potential future with Steph on another nba team, but it’s one with a bit less magic and hope that the good guys will eventually find a way to that eternal happy ending.
Scenario #1 warriors no longer have the assets to make the warriors a contender but loyal steph rides off into the sunset a warrior. Mind you, the squads are play-in at best.
Scenario #2 steph is no longer a warrior but wins a chip or two more.
I think I lean more towards seeing steph win chips and watching him at his best in the playoffs than retire a warrior for loyalty's sake.
The front office has through the summer to show me they can put a competent roster around steph.
Dunleavy did his best to build a strong bench. But the starters massively underperformed. And now, we're dealing with injuries, forcing Kerr to tinker with his lineups and getting mixed to negative results out of them. The losses are starting to pile up, and that is dropping the team's morale.
Why are there only two plausible scenarios? How about Steph stays, the team makes the playoffs every year but can't get past the second round, maybe not past the first round? But not a play-in team. That happens if the young 'uns keep developing and becoming more consistent, the defense starts coming together more, and we trade Wiggs for assets that help us (or he comes around). MDJ gets a couple more good FAs at the vet min to keep the bench strong (because we probably lose Saric).
Then Steph retires a Warrior. That's my first choice (aside from winning more titles).
If Steph leaves, I wish him all the luck, and if he gets more rings, great for him. I will be happy for him. Depending on what team he goes to, I might even root for him. But I care a lot more about the Dubs playing good basketball I want to watch than what any ex-Dub does elsewhere, even Steph.
Warrior first more rings second. But the answer is clearly both.
The Nets showed you can recover from trading unprotected firsts just as fast as you can recover by using them through tanking. Either way it takes a few years. So just trade those suckers.
100% If the Warriors really bottom out in a year or two and don't have draft picks, that will suck. But I'd prefer that to not seeing Steph in a Warriors jersey
... even if he's looking discouraged and disengaged, playing without joy, with his OG buddies gone for budget reasons and the only playoff hope being a play-in upset followed by a first-round clobbering? Personally, I don't know if I'd watch that 70+ times a year.
This isn't a very good scenario imo. How likely is it that the FO holds onto Curry if he's disgruntled? Even with that stated, how far off of your doomsday scenario is this season? Should I want the warriors to trade Curry at the deadline? In the offseason?
If he forces himself off the team I wouldn't hold it against him, but no I'm not hoping the team does "right" by him by trading him and rebuilding. I'd prefer they retool around him and he trust their ability like he's consistently done for his entire career.
Whatever happened to the sense that teMs could figure things out in a season or flip a switch?
I remember the Shaq and Kobe lakers narrative and the Warriors have never seemed to have gotten that level of respect. I’m not talking about one hit wonders finding lost glory here. Talking about guys that did it repeatedly for a decade plus the energy of youth having enough in the tank to turn it on.
The inevitability argument in the sports sphere is wrong most of the time, yet it keeps popping up constantly.
This team stinks right now. They need a fire lit under them, and yeah some folks might get burned. But in no way should anyone be allowed to settle into the just not good enough mindset.
And that includes whomever is coaching the D this year.
You don’t hustle after loose balls, especially if you’re a backup, you don’t play. You stop moving your feet and just reach? You don’t play. You don’t teach people where they need to be and demand they get there? You don’t coach.
Oh man it failed already just because I emphasized a group, now the starters think they can slack off? But then if they don’t hustle then they don’t play and then they become the backup and then they get directly referenced too. So there you go it works out in the end.
Frustrating game, but do not be a jerk to other commenters. (And don’t reply to this.)
Now you guys went and got Eric A mad!
What the heck?!
Can someone enlighten us: What does the avacodo represent in youth culture?
See below. Or…
“ In conclusion, the word “avocado” has a rich and fascinating history. It originated from the Nahuatl word “ahuacatl,” which means testicle. This is a reference to the fruit’s shape and the belief that it had aphrodisiac properties. Over time, the word “avocado” evolved through different languages and cultures, and it took on various meanings and cultural significances.”
Or maybe the guy just likes avocados.
Sorry if someone already posted tihis Woj comment :
"The Warriors sound like they're measuring the championship capabilities of the roster and, if they decide it cannot compete for one, may ultimately opt to shed salary at the deadline to avoid the second apron, even if it means trading away one of the three dynasty players."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJ5XSv0HnmA
I really don't think they'll make any big moves of the big 3 mid-season. It's not the way the light-years Warriors or Curry operate. Any big moves in the off-season will be done in a respectful way, so that the core protects the glow of the "drafted HOFers with the 4-rings" for decades of marketing.
yes, I think so too!
For those of you who are following the Siakam trade rumors:
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1747429433865068649
Developing: The Raptors and Pacers are in active talks on a trade centered on two-time All-Star Pascal Siakam for package that includes three first-round picks, league sources say.
3 first round picks?? Wow. If this goes through though, Pacers will be a tough team to beat. Hope we get them paired with Bucks in the playoffs
Good for them, should be a good fit
Who will the Pacers trade if they are going after Siakam? I think Bruce Brown, Obi Toppin, Jalen Smith, and/or Isaiah Jackson will be included in the trade.
Brown and Hield?
Agreed this seems likely. Not Toppin, I think they want to keep him. Hield has been shopped before.
Toronto is going to come out of this in pretty good shape.
Meanwhile Denver-Philly tied at 78-78 at half time - no defense on Either side but elite scoring
And 35FTA! And 9 different guys making a combined 17/31 from 3… even Steph’s skill isn’t all that unique anymore, everybody can shoot
#modernnba #legislatingoutdefense
#changedthegameforbetterorworse
Watching this video makes this feel worse - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm9cF2AXGmk
Don't 😰 because it's over. 😌 because it happened
So, here's a question for our capologists.
Since we're halfway through the season, what is the cap number that is used?
Do cap numbers pro-rate for the number of games left in the season? (I assume not, but who knows?)
It probably doesn't make a difference for matching salaries, but it might for calculating whether a contract can be traded into someone's cap space.
And, Sab, I don't really think Klay's going to be traded ... just curious what the answer is.
In short, basically yes. The messy details can be found for the previous CBA by searching http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm for “pro-rate”. This reveals, for instance, that most cap exceptions pro-rate starting Jan 10. Minimum contract amounts, etc, I think pro-rate for the whole season.
Ah, OK. Thanks!
And if I read it right, it sounds like if we trade Klay's salary (into cap space), rather than just let his contract expire, our luxury tax for this year goes down, since the luxury tax number is assessed on the last day of the regular season.
So there is some incentive to trade Klay at the deadline.
But how do we trade him into cap space? Taking on matching expirings wouldn’t give them any relief.
Yeah, you're right. According to Spotrac, there are only three teams with cap, and none of them have $20 mil +, so that may have been a silly thing to think about.
If we have to take contracts back, the only relief would be if they were non-guaranteed, and we could waive the players. Which would be pretty unlikely for a $40 mil contract.
Or if we take back a salary somewhat less (10% or whatever the matching rules say now), and that's enough to drop us below the second apron, that might be useful. I doubt that is the case, but I'm not sure.
BUt if we want to shed salary we already have 2 giant expiring contracts in Klay and CP0 ...
Kings head coach Mike Brown has been fined $50,000 for "aggressively pursuing a game official during live play, and for publicly criticizing the officiating."
https://twitter.com/nbapr/status/1747358130911031718
When he brought the computer to the press conferenc, he should’ve said, “I’ll take the blame for this loss as I should’ve challenged the following plays…” so it couldn’t have been considered “criticizing the officiating“. 🙂
Imagine the coach/player replay ballyhoo if Pat Bev played for Mike Brown?!
I read these comments with a heavy heart. It's tough to face father time, but I would rather be wrong and hold on to this group too long than to blow it up and regret it later.
This is exactly where I'm at. The 4 pathways*:
Keep the Core** and we succeed*** = ✅
Keep the Core and we don't = No Regrets as no one's gonna get fired for keeping the core if they are healthy and able. We owe them that****
Lose the Core and we succeed = ✅
Lose the Core and we don't = Regrets
Only one of those options has regrets*****
*I know I'm dumbing it way down
**#30
*** Remain competitive in the Playoffs
**** There will aways be Rebuilds. There will not be another Steph Curry.
***** There will be the, "What if Steph got traded and won a chip with another team?". Well, if Mr Curry wants that, Mr Curry will get that so it's not an option for us to debate.
I have the Warriors only solution at saving the season and making it exciting and hopefully successful.
They have no identity. Their best quality is they are very deep. They are undersized.
Kerr needs to do this…..
12 man rotation.
Everyone knows they are playing and their role.
No more worshiping the trio of Steph,Klay,DG.
Pick up full court.
All out transition game shooting open 3’s and attacking the rim relentlessly.
Curry 30 minutes
DG 20 to 24
JK 20 to 24
Klay 20 to 24
Wigs 20 to 24
Podz 20 to 24
Paul 20 to 24
Payton 20 to 24
TJD 16 to 20
Saric 16 to 20
Moody 16 to 20
Looney 8 to 16
Minutes can vary if someone is having a hot night or stinking it up.
Everyone plays with high intensity and they become a team of more equal partners.
Nobody has any right to complain about minutes, period.
If Klay doesn’t like it he can sulk on the bench and make nothing in his free agency.
They have no other option because their only strength this year has been their depth which has been totally screwed up by trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
Egos left at the door.
There is no possible trade that can fix this team. Any trade will require giving up their good young guys, the trade will not produce anything close to a title and their future is damaged,
The older guys will play better and harder going fewer minutes.
A lot of their best play of the season has been when Curry and or Klay have been on the bench.
Kerr will of course never do this because it is too radical for his old school mentality.
He should remember how much trouble Houston gave his greatest Warrior teams with a radical philosophy.
They simply have zero chance playing traditional NBA basketball.Zero.Absolute zero.
This seemed like an asher hyperbole and sarcasm comment 😂
I would enjoy watching that team!
This doesn't work. Kerr has said that Steph, Klay, Wiggs and others are rhythm players. They can't sit on the bench for extended period.
So unless you want play Klay one half and then Wiggs another half, this doesn't work.
Just trade them.
> I have the Warriors only solution at saving the season…
“I alone can fix this”?
I was being a little dramatic for effect but I guess some people see the world a certain way. Have a nice day.
👍
Omniscience! Kinda wasted here.
When it comes to basketball, I'm more like non-iscient.
Well why don’t you explain why it is such a bad idea instead of offering up nothing?
Same with Sleepy.
Just poking some fun atcha. I sure don't have the only solution. But I do want some stock tips.
Not saying anything you wrote was a “bad idea,” necessarily — just noting that the lack of humility implicit in “I have the only solution” made me unenthused about reading it. But I’m just one dude. Other readers may enjoy that tone more.
Fwiw, I offer up my share here, but “final solutions” are above my paygrade. 😊
Ok Sleepy.
It doesn’t matter but it had nothing to do with humility.
Onward.
I mean its a fan board not a Presidential debate
The DNHQ commentariat has a general culture of using evidence and respectfully understanding different perspectives. To me, this elevates it above the general Internet jackassary of people being loud and wrong and confidently pulling stuff out of their butt.
At least when people pull stuff out of their butt here, they’ll admit that’s what’s happening.
It is way too civil around here to be a presidential debate.
Agreed!
Nm. (Deleted by self for hewing a bit close to “being a jerk to other commenters”).
Poorest Defensive Impact per EPM (min 400 min):
https://twitter.com/NBA_University/status/1747283885736481217
1. Malaki Branham (Spurs)
2. Austin Reaves (Lakers)
3. Anfernee Simons (Blazers)
4. Pat Connaughton (Bucks)
5. James Wiseman (Pistons)
6. Cam Thomas (Nets)
7. Jordan Hawkins (Pelicans)
8. Marvin Bagley III (Wizards; formerly with the Pistons)
9. Bojan Bogdanovic (Pistons)
10. Benedict Mathurin (Pacers)
11. Tim Hardaway Jr. (Mavericks)
12. Coby White (Bulls)
13. Corey Kispert (Wizards)
14. Scoot Henderson (Blazers)
15. Keyonte George (Jazz)
16. Jordan Poole (Wizards)
17. Doug McDermott (Spurs)
18. Cameron Payne (Bucks)
19. Andrew Wiggins (Warriors)
20. Josh Richardson (Heat)
And pundits were clamoring for us to make a trade for Reaves lol.
That’s kind of hilarious that the Wizards just traded for an even worse defensive player than Poole. Are they trying to do something historic this year?
Statmuse says that Warriors turned the ball over 15.9 times/game with Draymond in the lineup this season and 12.7 times/game without Draymond this season.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/warriors-turnovers-per-game-with-draymond-green-in-lineup-this-season
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/warriors-turnovers-per-game-without-draymond-green-in-lineup-this-season
Statmuse doesn't have anything to say about it, so I checked nba.com's 2-player lineups.
https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced?GroupQuantity=2&TeamID=1610612744&dir=D&slug=advanced&sort=AST_TO
Steph-Dray pairing has a 1.57 assist/turnover ratio. Also:
Green-TJD: 4.00 assist/turnover; Green-Podz: 2.64; Curry-Podz: 2.15; Curry-CP3: 2.14; Curry-Looney: 2:06; Curry-Klay: 1.95; CP3-Green: 1.82. Not sure if this is what you are looking for, though.
Does this mean that TJ D should play more now that Green is back? Good because he needs more experience.
To/Assist, or Assist/TO ?
Oops. My bad. It's AST/TO.
Potentially blashphemous: maybe Steph isn't the only way for the franchise to succeed. I don't have a trade scenario, I am not actually making a suggestion. I am asking the numbers smarties to tell me if it is true this year that having Steph seems to make us win, any more than any top 30-40 player.
Depends on how you define success, maybe? Here's the list of NBA champions from the last 40 years whose rosters didn't feature at least one MVP:
2019 Raptors
2004 Pistons
1989–90 Pistons
Admittedly, there are other examples of championship teams whose MVPs were post-prime, or who had moved into more complimentary roles. But then it's also worth pointing out that Kawhi (Raptors) and Isiah Thomas (first Pistons group) are inner-inner circle HOFers whose lack of MVP hardware is as much an oddity as anything else.
None of which is to say that championships are the only way to measure success. At this point I'd settle for five straight enjoyable games, tbh. But insofar as the team's goal is to win the big one, history is on the side of keeping Steph at the center.
Steph is not playing consistently like a top 5 or even top 10 player in todays league and given he is still our best player, that immediately puts the team in the level of poor to mediocre. On top of that, we have a coach staff who cannot remove cultural/systemic tendencies related to TOs and fouling because he only seems to know one style of playing and does to appear to be evolving to catch up with most of the league . Major cultural and player changes over the summer are needed
This is pretty much how I (as an ecologist) see it. The Warriors prevailed because ~10 yrs ago the coaching staff initiated a new system.
1. The skill sets of the players matched the system!
2. Because the system was new, competing teams were at a disadvantage.
3. there was unlimited funding to buy anything the Warriors wanted for Kerrball,
4. mainly more experienced players were added to the Warriors system. (No 2 timelines).
Now nine or so years later,
1. the skill sets of these same players no longer match this system. The OG’s are slower, less aware, less flexible, and more emotional about their situation.
2. The young, drafted (2 timeline ) players could not rapidly assume the roles of the old guys in the Kerrball system.
3. Some of the younger guys are pre-adapted to the new NBA environment, but are being asked to play Kerrball.
4. the NBA has controlled spending.
Meanwhile, background has changed:
1. teams have evolved systems based on the skill sets of their players. Many teams have younger, longer, more athletic, smart players, who can shoot the 3. There are more generalist, switchable players in positionless bball.
2. defib pointed out a while back that several teams have evolved their own schemes which have become competitive.
3. New rules favor offense.
So the league has become more diverse, with new types of players, new schemes, and an emphasis on generalists. The specialist warriors old guys may not be able to compete.
I'd argue the league is more homogenous:
1. Find a guy who can score well in isolation
2. Surround him with guys with decent size who can shoot
3. Find a rim protector that can provide help defense at the rim
That describes pretty much every contender today... run P&R/dribble handoff action until you get an advantage either via mismatch or a defender getting caught out of position by a screen, then drive/kick/drive/kick/drive/kick until you get a decent shot, and have enough shooters on the floor that there's an open 3 available somewhere.
I think two things have changed:
1. "3&D guys" are no longer hard to find, they're everywhere. I believe their scarcity 10 years ago led young players to lean into those skills
2. Analytics suggests that reducing TOs is hugely beneficial to winning (increases scoring opportunities, decreases opponents' transition scoring opportunities, huge, huge wins). An open 3 from a 33% shooter is much better than risking a risky move to get a better look. Just take the shot, even if you miss there's an opportunity for a rebound and getting back on defense.
Homogeneous… kind of contradicts what you wrote one or two weeks ago about the different schemes that different teams were using. Perhaps it is a matter of variations on a theme. I rue the fact that I can’t discuss this using bball vocabulary.
But you used the word “rue”, so kudos
There's different ways of "scoring well in isolation", which is where some diversity kicks in. But it's all basically the same offense... maybe I'm being reductive, but I do think having a glut of capable shooting really does emphasize a heliocentric offense way more than it used to. And you just have to look back at the Rockets, who singularly built their entire roster solely to try to beat the Warriors. How did they do that? By getting an isolation scorer, and surrounding him with as many 3&D guys as they could possibly find... and a good enough roll man/rim protector. But it was hard to gather all those guys back then, much easier now.
It's gonna be a sad day if/when the Warriors adopt the standard Iso/Mismatch/Drive&Kick offense...
If we’re winning, I don’t mind. Our motion offense isn’t even pretty right now. That first half against the kings when dray came back though was peak basketball
If the NBA devolves into a formulaic thing, it will cease to draw my interest. I like the Giants... and the new rules to speed up the game are great, but the broad trend to "homers & strikeouts" is... boring.
With a supermax it’s hard to assemble a good team so the carrying must be done. But Steph has shown he has it until a recent inseason stretch. To say he’s now incapable is a bit of a stretch.
I didn't say he's incapable. I'm asking if there is another way forward.
Ah well, in that case there are always unlimited paths to take into a future that is constantly evolving with each choice made. There is a potential future with Steph on another nba team, but it’s one with a bit less magic and hope that the good guys will eventually find a way to that eternal happy ending.
Is that more thematically appropriate?
Scenario #1 warriors no longer have the assets to make the warriors a contender but loyal steph rides off into the sunset a warrior. Mind you, the squads are play-in at best.
Scenario #2 steph is no longer a warrior but wins a chip or two more.
I think I lean more towards seeing steph win chips and watching him at his best in the playoffs than retire a warrior for loyalty's sake.
The front office has through the summer to show me they can put a competent roster around steph.
For Frodell!!
Dunleavy did his best to build a strong bench. But the starters massively underperformed. And now, we're dealing with injuries, forcing Kerr to tinker with his lineups and getting mixed to negative results out of them. The losses are starting to pile up, and that is dropping the team's morale.
A veteran team of champions shouldn’t be so mentally soft. That’s the most concerning part.
Lineup shuffling without clear roles has seemed to be major issue from what I see..
What I'm trying to see is if people value steph retiring a warrior or him getting rings more. Pick a scenario please.
Also, at a ccertian point it does not matter how you got to where you got. Just what paths forward remain.
MDJ has done a very good job given his stating point.
Why are there only two plausible scenarios? How about Steph stays, the team makes the playoffs every year but can't get past the second round, maybe not past the first round? But not a play-in team. That happens if the young 'uns keep developing and becoming more consistent, the defense starts coming together more, and we trade Wiggs for assets that help us (or he comes around). MDJ gets a couple more good FAs at the vet min to keep the bench strong (because we probably lose Saric).
Then Steph retires a Warrior. That's my first choice (aside from winning more titles).
If Steph leaves, I wish him all the luck, and if he gets more rings, great for him. I will be happy for him. Depending on what team he goes to, I might even root for him. But I care a lot more about the Dubs playing good basketball I want to watch than what any ex-Dub does elsewhere, even Steph.
I waver between being a steph fan and a warrior fan. He’s just so one in a million!
It's a poll, you have to choose #1 or #2.
Given those two scenarios I'm curious which one people would choose.
I choose #2 given those two scenarios. But will see what happens in the real world.
Warrior first more rings second. But the answer is clearly both.
The Nets showed you can recover from trading unprotected firsts just as fast as you can recover by using them through tanking. Either way it takes a few years. So just trade those suckers.
100% If the Warriors really bottom out in a year or two and don't have draft picks, that will suck. But I'd prefer that to not seeing Steph in a Warriors jersey
... even if he's looking discouraged and disengaged, playing without joy, with his OG buddies gone for budget reasons and the only playoff hope being a play-in upset followed by a first-round clobbering? Personally, I don't know if I'd watch that 70+ times a year.
This isn't a very good scenario imo. How likely is it that the FO holds onto Curry if he's disgruntled? Even with that stated, how far off of your doomsday scenario is this season? Should I want the warriors to trade Curry at the deadline? In the offseason?
If he forces himself off the team I wouldn't hold it against him, but no I'm not hoping the team does "right" by him by trading him and rebuilding. I'd prefer they retool around him and he trust their ability like he's consistently done for his entire career.
Whatever happened to the sense that teMs could figure things out in a season or flip a switch?
I remember the Shaq and Kobe lakers narrative and the Warriors have never seemed to have gotten that level of respect. I’m not talking about one hit wonders finding lost glory here. Talking about guys that did it repeatedly for a decade plus the energy of youth having enough in the tank to turn it on.
The inevitability argument in the sports sphere is wrong most of the time, yet it keeps popping up constantly.
This team stinks right now. They need a fire lit under them, and yeah some folks might get burned. But in no way should anyone be allowed to settle into the just not good enough mindset.
And that includes whomever is coaching the D this year.
You don’t hustle after loose balls, especially if you’re a backup, you don’t play. You stop moving your feet and just reach? You don’t play. You don’t teach people where they need to be and demand they get there? You don’t coach.
Oh man it failed already just because I emphasized a group, now the starters think they can slack off? But then if they don’t hustle then they don’t play and then they become the backup and then they get directly referenced too. So there you go it works out in the end.