Always had the utmost respect for Bobgod, but hindsight allows me to see some mistakes. Ridiculously impressed with MDJ so far. His moves seem to belong to a more holistic plan, if that makes sense.
The evil genius move may have turned out to be overpaying Poole so as to be able to trade for for an equivalent contract and get CP. now that’s a long con.
Weirdly they actually had to hold on to Poole throughout last year, despite the Draymond blowup, to make that happen. So I could also see that being not just a Dunleavy thing, but something Myers was banking on the whole time.
He was also able to make use of resources drafted by Myers and turn them into more useful pieces, which I think is a credit to both of them: you're not going to get everything right, but when you admit your mistakes and try to fix them you can contend for a long time.
Wiseman for GP2 feels to me like the first of the big (positive) MDJ moves, even if officially the last major move of the Myers regime. Would love to have been a fly on the wall at the meetings where that decision was made to know whose voice(s) held sway.
Bob, as he always did, gathered the team leadership in a prayer circle, asked everyone to close their eyes and hum. Then, he solemnly asked the assembled "What Would Jerry Do" before facing the western sky, closing his own eyes, and channeling the presence of The Great and Wondrous LOGO. The LOGO advised all to trade Wiseman for GP2, and all was well. Ofttimes, BobGod would try to add his own guidance to that of The LOGO, but this time he did not stray from the word of The Great Jerry West.
First impression: Golden State notched high-quality road wins over the Kings and Pelicans to start this season. Last season, the team was atrocious on the road. This season’s Warriors are off to a 3-0 start on the road, and it looks like, while they still have plenty to work out, this will be a top-five team all season.
First overreaction: Steph Curry will be in the top three of the MVP voting. Just look at how dominant he is by merely existing. I’m wondering when that impact goes away or even begins to flicker a bit. The Warriors’ role players are making Curry’s job easier by not hemorrhaging plus/minus when he’s off the floor. Curry meshing well with Chris Paul also helps (plus-11.6 net rating with both on).
>First overreaction: I don’t think anybody in the Western Conference can compete with them. Maybe the Warriors can muster that championship level if everything breaks right, but this team already feels like a repeat champion, barring a massive injury.
I think the Celtics have the inside track but the Bucks can't be ruled out. Give Dame and Giannis some time to work things out, see how Middleton's health holds up, but they could be back in the Finals.
Honestly, I feel like if we beat the Nuggets, the Celtics will seem like a formality. Have I mentioned that I am crazy irrationally optimistic? Drunk with the good vibes.
Ironically, the strength of the bench gives Curry /more/ bandwidth to be spectacular. He's more rested and sharper. And he's got the energy to throw in his showman flourishes.
Health is going to be the issue for Steph, but if he plays 65 and the Ws end up in the top 3 seeds in the West (especially if they come out ahead of Denver), who's going to say no?
It's gonna be hard for his offense to dip. The shot will always be there, conditioning can last well into middle age, and he uses craftiness to score inside rather than speed. The defense is probably what will get hit the hardest with age
> The Golden State Warriors have exercised the team’s fourth-year options on Jonathan Kuminga and Moses Moody, league sources told @hoopshype. Kuminga will earn $7.63 million and Moody will earn $5.8 million for the 2024-25 season.
Wana keep the Two Timelines? Just sign a HOF Point Gawd Vet to come off the bench and run the 2nd unit in the non-Curry minutes. Hey Presto! Lightyears ahead again :)
Looking back at that summary, feels like Dub Nation's overall preferences (esp. DNHQ's) have probably outperformed the blogosphere as a whole and maybe even several front offices.
Something for people to ask themselves when watching how crisply and quickly everything moved last night. Can you envision Cam Whitmore playing that style?
Without could’ve been a Myers’ draft. I think Bob believed the C Dubs’ culture could change athletes and make them better. He was right about JK, but wrong about JWise
I'm not sure we can say they were right about Kuminga yet, at least in terms of how well he fits into the Warrior style. He still seems out of sync with how the rest of the team plays imo, much slower making decisions with the ball than everybody else. He has other talents that have allowed him to get into the regular season rotation anyway, but I think his playoff effectiveness is still an open question that will need to be answered in the spring.
1. He was making much faster, more confident reads in preseason than last year.
2. His handle has improved, and I think that may continue for another season or so.
3. He's learning other skills pretty well. I've seen him execute several really good shot challenges where he's got a hand up ball-side, but not get close enough to risk a foul.
4. Similarly, he's learned to challenge a shot closer to him, but pull his hand back to avoid a foul call.
I assume he's still at a knowledge deficit compared to players who went through AAU/college, so he could get better on the thinking the game front, and his improving toolkit will help him to exploit that.
Feels like he always waits that extra beat because he always kinda thinks he's got enough of a mismatch to attack... but he's getting better about it, and hopefully the longer runs he's getting this year are going to be good learning opportunities to work through these a bit.
"Jackson-Davis was originally credited with a 10th rebound in the closing minutes. The bench erupted, and there was a specific reason for it. The Warriors’ veterans have given Jackson-Davis the nickname “Baby T.” He doesn’t necessarily love it, so they’ve told him he could lose the nickname and go back to Trayce after his first double-double.
That 10th rebound led to a celebration. Draymond Green started yelling, “Baby T who?” in the aftermath. But the official scorer switched one of Jackson-Davis’ rebounds to Jerome Robinson, deeming it a controlled tap after a postgame review, dropping the total to nine. When informed postgame, the locker room was shocked at the turn of events, keeping the nickname alive.
Watching Poole on the Wizards so far, I am feeling like Edmund in "The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe." I was given Turkish delight to eat -- some deep threes, clever drives to the basket -- and I came under a deep spell. All around me for so long there were signs that I was very confused, but I ignored those and dug in my position. Then, the spell was broken and I realized that what I had admired was the very thing that was causing me such anguish. Kerr is Susan, the wise older sister, and Dunleavy is Peter, who, if I recall correctly, breaks the spell.
Susan grows up and doesn't go to Heave- er wherever it is they go at the (wretched) end of that series. Which I liked up to that point. I don't have feelings about this still, why do you say I do?
Susan ends up not being a friend of Narnia by the end of the series, so let's not have Kerr be Susan. And it's Aslan who breaks the spell -- and gives his life in exchange for the traitor.
Apparently, she became enamored of a certain idea of what it meant to be grown up, and she had no more room/use for Narnia.
In a letter to a young reader, Lewis later indicated that it was not so much that Susan was doomed as that her story would have been a longer and more grown up book than he wanted to write. So for fans of Susan, there is hope that her spiritual path ended up being redemptive, even if it wasn't resolved in the Chronicles series.
I'm sorry they're lousy to you. I love those books. Yeah, they're overly simple; they're children's books. But for all of his racism and sexism, I find so much insight there. YMMV.
They’re not just simple, they’re also poorly constructed. Just when you get into a good narrative, he skips ten years on you. Or there’s some magic Asian solution so no one really has to earn their way. There is a ton of imaginative stuff but those tendencies get on my nerves.
Not sure if I know what you mean about the 10-year thing. In the Chronicles, each book is its own story, though connected to the larger narrative world of Narnia. Within that world, the stories happen at very different times -- not unlike the Star Trek series -- but within each book, I don't remember any jumps. But the series is not intended to be a continuous narrative like the LOTR.
As for magic Aslan solutions and no one having to earn their way, I think it comes down to what /can/ be earned and what can't. Peter and Edmund have to earn their stripes as warriors and kings. But they did not and could not earn /becoming/ kings; that was gifted to them. Likewise, Edmund's arc is redemptive -- like Eustace's -- but they do not and cannot redeem themselves. It doesn't mean they can't do anything, and much ends up being required of them. It just doesn't /earn/ redemption.
Anyhow, thanks for the diversion into Narnia. I obviously love that stuff. But I'll get back to Warrior talk now before we all get suspended...
As I recall, in the first book the four toward the end become kings and queens and live long lives as such and then they see the lamp post which they only barely remember which is hella sad. A whole lifetime has passed which for a child reader is a big deal. But then whoosh they are back in the wardrobe and are their old selves. I found that super jarring and weird. And if I recall correctly some later book maybe Caspian maybe someone else spends long years in battle and so on and there’s an old lady who is dying and I remember the phrase “she was his old nurse!” — the only one who had been kind to him in childhood or something like that. But now she’s dying. It’s so abrupt. As an adult reader I find it skimpy and doesn’t earn my emotions. A cheap thrill of sorts. The same is true for Aslan’s redemption on the Table. Obviously this is Christ no one misses that one; but the whole “I secretly had to die so that we all could live” gimmick isn’t fair to Lucy and Susan. They are heartbroken at his death and he’s like “chill,” but can’t tell them the reason. Toys with their emotions and therefore the reader’s
Different beasts, IMO. The LOTR was huge (over 1200 pages in the edition we have) and amazingly detailed. It took Tolkien 40 years to write it; he created languages and an entire history of and mythology for Middle Earth. These are books that were meant for adult readers, though some children have enjoyed them too.
The Chronicles of Narnia, though beloved of many adults, were written for children. The little girl who asked Lewis to write more stories about Narnia was only four years old.
That's because it's pretty heavy-handed with its' Christian allegory, something that doesn't stand out as much to younger readers but pretty painfully apparent when you're an adult. For all of the inspiration he drew from myth, Tolkien hated allegory and his books remain fresher for it.
Breaking news: Having played a crucial role in acquiring James Harden, Clipper Executive Board member Jerry "The Logo" West has decided to retire.
Sources say that the Clippers will be replacing him with Daryl Morey, who no longer felt needed in Philadelphia and is looking forward to a reunion with close associate Harden.
I like Cpt Nemo did not see that there was a game thread last night so was on an old thread. I posted this last night but thought I’d share it here as well:
Attended the Wizards-Celtics game tn. Don’t get me wrong the Celtics look good, but damn the Wizards are bad. Jordan Poole looked like their best defender most of the time he was on the floor (until garbage time when Rollins started racking up deflections). It’s wild that Rollins isn’t in their 10-man rotation right now, he’s better than Wright and Davis. The Wizards also played with 0 centers tn (they had Avdija on Porzingis), and I think the only center they have rostered is Gafford. Its a bit silly but I think it’d make sense for them to pick up Wiseman. They’re not trying to win and need some size, worst case they just continue the tank. Best case Wise blossoms and they have two solid rotation bigs.
The Celtics top 6 looks monstrous, not many across the history of the NBA that look better tbh. But their reserves look WEAK. I think they’ll lose more games than people expect because of their bench coughing up leads, not to mention potential injuries. Wouldn’t be surprised if they end up looking gassed in the 2nd round of the playoffs.
The Peak Warriors Top 6 is *way* better imo (Hamptons Five plus any one of Shaun, Matty Barnes, DWest, or Zaza, take your pick). But yeah, the Cs group is beastly.
From all accounts, Jordan is getting a harsh dose of reality. No more Steph and Klay to draw defensive attention. No more Dray and Loon to set picks. No more Steve Kerr drawing up plays or beautiful Dub fans winking at him from the crowd. You're on your own now, JP. Are you him?
he's gonna atleast like we all wanted him to do while with us - create more counters like steph has and likely will need to bulk up like steph. speed only gets you so far - like a fast wide receiver but doesnt know how to run routes well enough to trick defenders
i actually feel sorry for JP - now that he is all alone on a island of basketball nobodies - boy its going to be rough for him from being on team of champions to a team of we-never-gonna-be-championship
It'll be a good test of his character. I already see the pronouncements that he's going to be a selfish, get-his guy on a team going nowhere for the rest of his career. But he's got a decision to make. Will he become the kind of player and leader who makes his teammates better? Can he inspire rather than just wow? He wanted to have his own team. Now he's got it. What's he going to do with it?
OK, let's try for an impartial analysis of the Clippers. They acquired James Harden. They gave up some useful depth in trading Marcus Morris, Robert Covington, Nic Batum, KJ Martin. Their probable starting lineup is something like guards: Harden and Paul George, forwards: Kawhi, Terence Mann, center, Ivica Zubac. Their rotation players are Westbrook, Norman Powell, PJ Tucker, Amir Coffey, Mason Plumlee.
They have a lot of talent on both offense and defense, and a lot of problems. One is chemistry, or lack thereof. Even before the trade this is not a team known for cohesion and a clear plan on offense. They tend to trade possessions. Another problem is that there's only one ball, and Harden wants it. To be fair he gets assists, but out of his role as an attacker with the ball. Kawhi and PG are not catch and shoot guys, they tend to need the ball to create a play. On defense, Harden doesn't play it and Terence Mann and Westbrook are pretty suss on that end too. Kawhi and PG do, but that brings up health. What are the odds of PG, Kawhi, Westbrook and Harden making it to through a playoff run healthy?
Thoughts? Remember, we're being scientific adults here.
They have a bunch of guys who are more individual stars, I'll grant you that, but I've seen (and heard) nothing that indicates there is a team problem. Seems like they have mostly been done in by poor health, and a couple of poor (but not that bad) outings.
If anything I'd say PGIII and Kawhi have been more OK than I would expect over their lack of success.
They prob just doing similar to what we did - assessed their situation and see they had to do something cause George and Kawhi not getting any younger, their window is closing and they cant just "hope" they stay healthy. This i guess atleast gives them a "star" that could do something if one or both are injured
Our situation was different - we couldnt go with so many raw/low bbiq guys but we still had a situation
My analysis is not quite so scientific, but I wouldn't touch this team with a ten-foot pole. Tons of talent, insatiable egos, moody and temperamental... To quote underrated basketball analyst Bruce Banner, "I mean, what are we, a team? No, no, no. We're a chemical mixture that makes chaos. We're a time bomb."
You're quite right. If they had a really good strong solid coach, that could help. But I've always seen Ty Lue as the opposite. He either wants to be a player's friend, which doesn't work, or he wants to be a stern tough guy, which is too much of a pendulum. Seems highly overrated as an actual coach, to me.
So many people closely associated with the game, including some of the players on our team, LOVE Ty Lue. I just don't get it. I think he must be a great guy to play for. Beyond that, he just doesn't show much of anything to set himself aside from a bunch of other coaches. He seems solid but not spectacular to me, and definitely far short of the lavish praise he often gets.
Completely agree. There are these guys that everyone likes. I think they are probably cool dudes to be on a team with. But they get coaching reputations they don't deserve. I think of Doc Rivers that way. Meanwhile Popovich is not a guy to go to the club with...
I think this trade doesn't make them worse (until Harden gets disgruntled, which probably won't be this year?) but it doesn't immediately make them top contenders.
If one of Kawhi/PG are injured, Harden can manage the game well enough to beat lesser teams anyway, which I'm not convinced is the case with the previous rotation guys in his place. I do think their defense has gotten more suspect—not only because of how Har_en plays most of the time (he *can* defend decently well, but he often doesn't)—but because the guys who moved up in the depth chart as a result are not as good on that end as the guys who were traded away.
And we already know that Westbrook+Harden doesn't work as a combo. So I think the trade raises their ceiling and drops their floor, but I'm undecided if their median outcome got better.
With Harden on the Clips, I envision things similar to the Harden/CP3 and Harden/Westbrook duos - let Harden and the other (CP3 or Westbrook) take turns pounding the air out of the ball while the other player stands around on the weak side 40 feet from the bucket. But now you'll also have Kawhi and PG13 to deal with.
Can't see this going well. According to my eyes, anyway, I think Harden's skills have declined a lot in the past five years and the new league rules are catching up to him as well.
Hopefully, we'll get a lot of drama in LA culminating in a Lakers/Clippers play-in battle for the #8 slot.
Yeah the Harden Disgruntlement Clock has already been posted at Staples Center or whatever they're calling it these days, and it's beginning to run down the minutes.
It's a confusing situation. I can see the Clippers losing a game to an average opponent by a lot and then winning the next one by a lot.
I think the best bet is to have Harden and Russ in a Steph/CP3 kind of role respectively.
(Pause. Throwing up noises. Pause. More throwing up noises).
Okay, with that over, Harden and Russ can share the court some of the time but probably not as much as Steph+CP3 will. Having them both on the court at the same time just doesn't make that much sense. When not sharing the court, it does give them some advantages in change of pace and styles. But how will Russ take being back seat... again? How will Harden feel when Ty Lue wants to sub him out to get Russ some burn but he doesn't want to come out? I don't hold out a lot of hope for any meaningful long-term fit between these two guys.
Now, Russ has carved himself a pretty good spot on the Clippers. Bringing Harden in is going to change that and maybe not for the better. You talk about Harden working with the starters... I think he can do that based on his time in Philly and even a little bit in Brooklyn. But Harden and Russ on the court together makes less and less sense the more and more I think about it.
All I know is it will be fascinating to see what happens next. I give it a low probability of anything good, even assuming these guys can all stay healthy. But who knows? That's the magic of basketball and competitive sports in general...
That gave Curry 24 second-half points and 42 total in the Warriors’ 130-102 domination. After it — a win that clinched a 3-0 road trip through Sacramento, Houston and New Orleans — Gary Payton II made an interesting observation. There was a particular reason he felt Curry was fresh and ready to slam the fourth-quarter door on both the Rockets and Pelicans.
“With Chris (Paul) here, that cuts half of what he’s gotta do,” Payton said. “Bringing up the ball, going to get it, getting us into offense. We got Chris (to do some of that), so by the time the fourth quarter comes late, he’s got energy. He’s still got energy to do what he does. That’s another strength for us — have CP come in and control, handle the ball and get guys where they need to be and let 30 just run around.”
So Curry only got 18 in the first half. He's still ramping up, I guess.
I wouldn't be surprised if Podz and CoJo are able to keep some of that pressure off of Curry as well. I'm loving the construction of this roster so far. We'll see how we all feel when we go up against some of the giants in the league...
Agree. It may be premature but Kerr needs to gradually play him less minutes (maybe only 20?) but it seems like we are more and more dependent on him to lead the second unit.
Since Draymond came back the last two games, he’s averaged ~26 minutes per game. I have faith Kerr will be cognizant of not running Paul into the ground.
I’d bet it was part of the conversation with him regarding coming off the bench. “We want to preserve you for the playoffs instead of wearing you down in the regular season like previous teams have done.”
Hats of to Coach Kerr - he certainly learned from last season, He is trying to get all the youngsters to play early in this season - that is a great sign. Maybe get Podz to slowly take over a few minutes from CP3 so he is playing less minutes to increase his likelyhood to be available in the post season.
I am not sure they will be able to keep TJD off the court. He doesn't do that much that is spectacular (well, a couple of nice dunks) but he seems to have that Kevon Looney trait of always being in the right place to make a play, boxes out, gets the rebounds, etc.
He also doesn't look as strong/athletic as he appears to be; he has a quick jump, quick feet and got 3 blocks in pretty limited minutes.
He still needs to anticipate receiving incredible passes when he's in the paint - he muffed a couple of them last night and just didn't seem aware that the passing gods (Steph, Dray, CP3) could find him in traffic like they do.
It helps that the team is actually playing connected and they're not trying to currently put out any fires that we're aware of. I also bet their practice culture is less toxic this year, which probably benefits the youth?
It also helps that these young guys can actually play. That /may/ have been true of Moody and Kuminga last year, but Wise, PBJ, and Rollins were empty roster spots.
In addition to those three empty roster spots, we had an assistant coach filling another roster spot last year (Dre). Hence our dependence on our two-way players.
i think that it helps Podz/TJD are a lot more solid in the basic things we need from them vs where Moody/JK were which is understandable since they're older/more experienced coming in.
Podz can handle decently enough and shows strong defense even if undersized. TJD can rebound/play near the basket. Moody and JK excel at things we werent really deficient in as much but have been growing esp Moody's shot
First batch were also drafted with a different mindset - going for more upside and possibility of them taking over for the vets in the future. The vets not declining as fast or at all in Curry's case, and the fact that the rooks didnt develop as fast cause of our situation(not losing & aging)/playing time made for a funky combo until we re-decided to go all in w the vets and add contributors instead of eventual replacements. The fact that we had high picks in this competing window i'm sure also made things more muddled
Rather than arbitrary minutes limits, it will be important for the Warriors to be extremely cautious of how to manage Paul through any of the inevitable soreness, strains, nicks, bumps etc that NBA players all have throughout a season. We don't see any of that most of the time so we will not have insight into why Paul plays minutes how he does. He could play one minute and hurt himself or 30 minutes and not. I think the Warriors performance staff has as good a chance as anyone in the NBA managing Paul so that he is ready to go in the postseason. Here's hoping...
True. But I was happy with what the distribution of minutes vs the Pelicans could mean. Steph (30:02), CP (25:13) and Loon (24:34) played the most, then 7 players spread between 19:50 and 22:48, followed by the 3 "3rd unit" guys at 4:39. All this with JK and Klay sitting with the most cheerful benchers (and smiling coaches!) I've seen in a while. I can dream that this a proof of concept that our starters can rotate more, even when we have DNPs, and the lines between the starters and the 2nd unit continue to blur.
Against challenging teams matchups will dictate that we lean on certain players, but we might one day see 13 guys play 20 minutes. Just theoretical numbers, but it could promote longevity, and even raise the intensity of play for those during the 20-25 minutes they are assigned.
WAIT, we won last night!?! https://open.substack.com/pub/dubnation/p/currys-42-leads-warriors-over-pelicans?r=3lpzv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web new thread
Hey Eric, is it intentional that the E1P videos now get posted on YT well before the DNHQ article that links to it?
Yes, you've mentioned it a time or two...
Your irrationality resonates with me, because I also WANT to believe.
To answer your valid question:
YES.
You have indeed mentioned that you have an irrationally good feeling about TJD.
Should we officially upgrade that to “We have a good feeling about TJD?”
That’s what I said on the video comments; nothing irrational about good TJD feelings.
Always had the utmost respect for Bobgod, but hindsight allows me to see some mistakes. Ridiculously impressed with MDJ so far. His moves seem to belong to a more holistic plan, if that makes sense.
The evil genius move may have turned out to be overpaying Poole so as to be able to trade for for an equivalent contract and get CP. now that’s a long con.
Weirdly they actually had to hold on to Poole throughout last year, despite the Draymond blowup, to make that happen. So I could also see that being not just a Dunleavy thing, but something Myers was banking on the whole time.
He was also able to make use of resources drafted by Myers and turn them into more useful pieces, which I think is a credit to both of them: you're not going to get everything right, but when you admit your mistakes and try to fix them you can contend for a long time.
Wiseman for GP2 feels to me like the first of the big (positive) MDJ moves, even if officially the last major move of the Myers regime. Would love to have been a fly on the wall at the meetings where that decision was made to know whose voice(s) held sway.
Bob, as he always did, gathered the team leadership in a prayer circle, asked everyone to close their eyes and hum. Then, he solemnly asked the assembled "What Would Jerry Do" before facing the western sky, closing his own eyes, and channeling the presence of The Great and Wondrous LOGO. The LOGO advised all to trade Wiseman for GP2, and all was well. Ofttimes, BobGod would try to add his own guidance to that of The LOGO, but this time he did not stray from the word of The Great Jerry West.
😂
But of course! Silly me.
Zach Harper has the Dubs 4th in his latest power rankings, just steer the Nuggets,Celtics,Bucks.
https://theathletic.com/4975320/2023/10/31/nba-power-rankings-week-2-mavericks-thunder/?source=user_shared_article
First impression: Golden State notched high-quality road wins over the Kings and Pelicans to start this season. Last season, the team was atrocious on the road. This season’s Warriors are off to a 3-0 start on the road, and it looks like, while they still have plenty to work out, this will be a top-five team all season.
First overreaction: Steph Curry will be in the top three of the MVP voting. Just look at how dominant he is by merely existing. I’m wondering when that impact goes away or even begins to flicker a bit. The Warriors’ role players are making Curry’s job easier by not hemorrhaging plus/minus when he’s off the floor. Curry meshing well with Chris Paul also helps (plus-11.6 net rating with both on).
I like that his top 8 consists of:
Denver
2 East-coast monsters
The entire Pacific Division
Same tho
Also, this nugget, under the Denver section:
>First overreaction: I don’t think anybody in the Western Conference can compete with them. Maybe the Warriors can muster that championship level if everything breaks right, but this team already feels like a repeat champion, barring a massive injury.
God I hope both teams get to the playoffs healthy and face each other.
It will be one of those "Finals before the Finals" situations
I think the Finals will be during the Finals and will be Warriors/Celtics
I trust the warriors, not so much the celtics - they still have some guys who cant dribble
I think the Celtics have the inside track but the Bucks can't be ruled out. Give Dame and Giannis some time to work things out, see how Middleton's health holds up, but they could be back in the Finals.
Honestly, I feel like if we beat the Nuggets, the Celtics will seem like a formality. Have I mentioned that I am crazy irrationally optimistic? Drunk with the good vibes.
Ironically, the strength of the bench gives Curry /more/ bandwidth to be spectacular. He's more rested and sharper. And he's got the energy to throw in his showman flourishes.
Health is going to be the issue for Steph, but if he plays 65 and the Ws end up in the top 3 seeds in the West (especially if they come out ahead of Denver), who's going to say no?
It's gonna be hard for his offense to dip. The shot will always be there, conditioning can last well into middle age, and he uses craftiness to score inside rather than speed. The defense is probably what will get hit the hardest with age
> The Golden State Warriors have exercised the team’s fourth-year options on Jonathan Kuminga and Moses Moody, league sources told @hoopshype. Kuminga will earn $7.63 million and Moody will earn $5.8 million for the 2024-25 season.
https://twitter.com/MikeAScotto/status/1719393356789248086
Shocker.
Wana keep the Two Timelines? Just sign a HOF Point Gawd Vet to come off the bench and run the 2nd unit in the non-Curry minutes. Hey Presto! Lightyears ahead again :)
Love me some Moody! Already a really solid player. And I think he can even improve from here.
I mean yeah. Keeping both guys at those prices now seems a total obvi move
Also, the Moody>Bouknight fan draft analyst contingency is feeling like a million bucks right now:
> The Charlotte Hornets are declining the fourth-year option ($6.1 million) on 2021 No. 11 pick James Bouknight, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium.
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1719408392458903594
God I never understood the hype for Bouknight.
To be fair, most of DNHQ commenters broke hard for Moody (twitter felt Bouknight and Moody was closer). 81%-19% head to head.
https://dubnationhq.com/p/the-2021-dub-nation-hq-draft-tournament?s=w
Looking back at that summary, feels like Dub Nation's overall preferences (esp. DNHQ's) have probably outperformed the blogosphere as a whole and maybe even several front offices.
Yeah I think DNHQ was pretty unified about Moody. I'm more remembering guys like Sam Esfandiari who were on the side of Bouknight.
Something for people to ask themselves when watching how crisply and quickly everything moved last night. Can you envision Cam Whitmore playing that style?
I can't imagine Whitmore playing in any style because he's been glued to the bench in Houston so far.
I can't claim any prescient drafting thoughts but I did think it was pretty silly for some folks to be thinking we "missed out" on Whitmore.
Without could’ve been a Myers’ draft. I think Bob believed the C Dubs’ culture could change athletes and make them better. He was right about JK, but wrong about JWise
I'm not sure we can say they were right about Kuminga yet, at least in terms of how well he fits into the Warrior style. He still seems out of sync with how the rest of the team plays imo, much slower making decisions with the ball than everybody else. He has other talents that have allowed him to get into the regular season rotation anyway, but I think his playoff effectiveness is still an open question that will need to be answered in the spring.
There are some good reason to hope:
1. He was making much faster, more confident reads in preseason than last year.
2. His handle has improved, and I think that may continue for another season or so.
3. He's learning other skills pretty well. I've seen him execute several really good shot challenges where he's got a hand up ball-side, but not get close enough to risk a foul.
4. Similarly, he's learned to challenge a shot closer to him, but pull his hand back to avoid a foul call.
I assume he's still at a knowledge deficit compared to players who went through AAU/college, so he could get better on the thinking the game front, and his improving toolkit will help him to exploit that.
Feels like he always waits that extra beat because he always kinda thinks he's got enough of a mismatch to attack... but he's getting better about it, and hopefully the longer runs he's getting this year are going to be good learning opportunities to work through these a bit.
From Slaters article in the Athletic: https://theathletic.com/5015376/2023/10/31/stephen-curry-warriors-chris-paul-second-unit/
Looks like a fun locker room
"Jackson-Davis was originally credited with a 10th rebound in the closing minutes. The bench erupted, and there was a specific reason for it. The Warriors’ veterans have given Jackson-Davis the nickname “Baby T.” He doesn’t necessarily love it, so they’ve told him he could lose the nickname and go back to Trayce after his first double-double.
That 10th rebound led to a celebration. Draymond Green started yelling, “Baby T who?” in the aftermath. But the official scorer switched one of Jackson-Davis’ rebounds to Jerome Robinson, deeming it a controlled tap after a postgame review, dropping the total to nine. When informed postgame, the locker room was shocked at the turn of events, keeping the nickname alive.
“Yes!!,” Thompson said. “Baby T!!” "
controlled taps don't count as rebounds? so GP2 gets ~5 rebounds taken away each game?
Poor Trayce - the rookie hazing continues
Watching Poole on the Wizards so far, I am feeling like Edmund in "The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe." I was given Turkish delight to eat -- some deep threes, clever drives to the basket -- and I came under a deep spell. All around me for so long there were signs that I was very confused, but I ignored those and dug in my position. Then, the spell was broken and I realized that what I had admired was the very thing that was causing me such anguish. Kerr is Susan, the wise older sister, and Dunleavy is Peter, who, if I recall correctly, breaks the spell.
Steph is Aslan.
Susan grows up and doesn't go to Heave- er wherever it is they go at the (wretched) end of that series. Which I liked up to that point. I don't have feelings about this still, why do you say I do?
So, in this allegory ... Susan is PGIII, Aslan is Kawhi?
Who is the Cowardly Lion?
I find the Chronicles of Hardenia to be very confusing.
Even in the Chronicles of Hardenia, none of the Clippers gets to be Aslan. None.
Susan ends up not being a friend of Narnia by the end of the series, so let's not have Kerr be Susan. And it's Aslan who breaks the spell -- and gives his life in exchange for the traitor.
Hahaha. I didn't read this before I wrote mine - I swear. Funny we both went there immediately.
Yeah I thought that was true about Aslan but I didn't know Susan went away. Why? She was such a good one.
Apparently, she became enamored of a certain idea of what it meant to be grown up, and she had no more room/use for Narnia.
In a letter to a young reader, Lewis later indicated that it was not so much that Susan was doomed as that her story would have been a longer and more grown up book than he wanted to write. So for fans of Susan, there is hope that her spiritual path ended up being redemptive, even if it wasn't resolved in the Chronicles series.
Lewis did Susan dirty. It came off really poorly in the book.
Now I need to go back and read the books!
Truth is they're kind of lousy. Also I just mega spoiled it for you. Sorry about that.
actually have read them and kind of licked them - though there are other good ones.
Currently I am rereading the "Rangers apprentice" series for the third time
I have had such a hard time reading lately, maybe I should lick a few and see if that helps.
I had no idea this was the proper way to consume books. No wonder I’ve had such a hard time recently.
by read I mean "5-10 minutes to fall of to sleep". A typical paperback takes me weeks to finish!
I'm sorry they're lousy to you. I love those books. Yeah, they're overly simple; they're children's books. But for all of his racism and sexism, I find so much insight there. YMMV.
They’re not just simple, they’re also poorly constructed. Just when you get into a good narrative, he skips ten years on you. Or there’s some magic Asian solution so no one really has to earn their way. There is a ton of imaginative stuff but those tendencies get on my nerves.
Not sure if I know what you mean about the 10-year thing. In the Chronicles, each book is its own story, though connected to the larger narrative world of Narnia. Within that world, the stories happen at very different times -- not unlike the Star Trek series -- but within each book, I don't remember any jumps. But the series is not intended to be a continuous narrative like the LOTR.
As for magic Aslan solutions and no one having to earn their way, I think it comes down to what /can/ be earned and what can't. Peter and Edmund have to earn their stripes as warriors and kings. But they did not and could not earn /becoming/ kings; that was gifted to them. Likewise, Edmund's arc is redemptive -- like Eustace's -- but they do not and cannot redeem themselves. It doesn't mean they can't do anything, and much ends up being required of them. It just doesn't /earn/ redemption.
Anyhow, thanks for the diversion into Narnia. I obviously love that stuff. But I'll get back to Warrior talk now before we all get suspended...
As I recall, in the first book the four toward the end become kings and queens and live long lives as such and then they see the lamp post which they only barely remember which is hella sad. A whole lifetime has passed which for a child reader is a big deal. But then whoosh they are back in the wardrobe and are their old selves. I found that super jarring and weird. And if I recall correctly some later book maybe Caspian maybe someone else spends long years in battle and so on and there’s an old lady who is dying and I remember the phrase “she was his old nurse!” — the only one who had been kind to him in childhood or something like that. But now she’s dying. It’s so abrupt. As an adult reader I find it skimpy and doesn’t earn my emotions. A cheap thrill of sorts. The same is true for Aslan’s redemption on the Table. Obviously this is Christ no one misses that one; but the whole “I secretly had to die so that we all could live” gimmick isn’t fair to Lucy and Susan. They are heartbroken at his death and he’s like “chill,” but can’t tell them the reason. Toys with their emotions and therefore the reader’s
Some magic Asian solution?! Damn, I gotta go back an re-read them now...
Hah I know, right? I definitely double-taked on that one.
As an adult reader LOTR and even the Hobbit hold up, but Narnia just doesn’t for me.
Different beasts, IMO. The LOTR was huge (over 1200 pages in the edition we have) and amazingly detailed. It took Tolkien 40 years to write it; he created languages and an entire history of and mythology for Middle Earth. These are books that were meant for adult readers, though some children have enjoyed them too.
The Chronicles of Narnia, though beloved of many adults, were written for children. The little girl who asked Lewis to write more stories about Narnia was only four years old.
That's because it's pretty heavy-handed with its' Christian allegory, something that doesn't stand out as much to younger readers but pretty painfully apparent when you're an adult. For all of the inspiration he drew from myth, Tolkien hated allegory and his books remain fresher for it.
Breaking news: Having played a crucial role in acquiring James Harden, Clipper Executive Board member Jerry "The Logo" West has decided to retire.
Sources say that the Clippers will be replacing him with Daryl Morey, who no longer felt needed in Philadelphia and is looking forward to a reunion with close associate Harden.
OK maybe not but admit you'd love to see it.
You had me going after that first sentence. And yes, that would be hilarious -- and couldn't happen to a nicer guy than Harden.
Danny Green got waived at like 3AM LOL
He would work really well for the Warriors. Set him up as a permanent exhibit in a dunk tank outside Chase and raise lots of money for charity.
Danny Green sucks?
I like Cpt Nemo did not see that there was a game thread last night so was on an old thread. I posted this last night but thought I’d share it here as well:
Attended the Wizards-Celtics game tn. Don’t get me wrong the Celtics look good, but damn the Wizards are bad. Jordan Poole looked like their best defender most of the time he was on the floor (until garbage time when Rollins started racking up deflections). It’s wild that Rollins isn’t in their 10-man rotation right now, he’s better than Wright and Davis. The Wizards also played with 0 centers tn (they had Avdija on Porzingis), and I think the only center they have rostered is Gafford. Its a bit silly but I think it’d make sense for them to pick up Wiseman. They’re not trying to win and need some size, worst case they just continue the tank. Best case Wise blossoms and they have two solid rotation bigs.
The Celtics top 6 looks monstrous, not many across the history of the NBA that look better tbh. But their reserves look WEAK. I think they’ll lose more games than people expect because of their bench coughing up leads, not to mention potential injuries. Wouldn’t be surprised if they end up looking gassed in the 2nd round of the playoffs.
The Peak Warriors Top 6 is *way* better imo (Hamptons Five plus any one of Shaun, Matty Barnes, DWest, or Zaza, take your pick). But yeah, the Cs group is beastly.
the best 5 man lineup had mcgee in place of andre in the hamptons 5.
curry/klay/durant/green/mcgee with andre as 6th man.
coulda used him the last 6 seasons :/
Steph >> Tatum
KD >> Brown
Klay (2015-2019 version) >> Jrue
Dray >>>>>Zinger
Zaza < Horford
Andre > White
This is not that hard... this team hasn't won a single championship, and they keep getting (unfairly) compared to pantheon teams...
For sure, I’m not saying they’re like top 10 all time or anything, but like across the lineups across all nba seasons they look in top 10% to me.
Yeah let's not start throwing out "in the history of the NBA" for this Celtics Six quite yet.
Via Reddit r/NBA: JP tries to go at Jrue. https://streamable.com/9cro5x
Could NOT stifle a giggle.
I’m not a hater, but it’s going to be interesting to see how being the focus of attention by opponents’ top defenders affects his game.
From all accounts, Jordan is getting a harsh dose of reality. No more Steph and Klay to draw defensive attention. No more Dray and Loon to set picks. No more Steve Kerr drawing up plays or beautiful Dub fans winking at him from the crowd. You're on your own now, JP. Are you him?
he's gonna atleast like we all wanted him to do while with us - create more counters like steph has and likely will need to bulk up like steph. speed only gets you so far - like a fast wide receiver but doesnt know how to run routes well enough to trick defenders
Jrue Holliday is a badass.
i actually feel sorry for JP - now that he is all alone on a island of basketball nobodies - boy its going to be rough for him from being on team of champions to a team of we-never-gonna-be-championship
I can think of 120+ million reasons not to feel too sorry for him
It'll be a good test of his character. I already see the pronouncements that he's going to be a selfish, get-his guy on a team going nowhere for the rest of his career. But he's got a decision to make. Will he become the kind of player and leader who makes his teammates better? Can he inspire rather than just wow? He wanted to have his own team. Now he's got it. What's he going to do with it?
OK, let's try for an impartial analysis of the Clippers. They acquired James Harden. They gave up some useful depth in trading Marcus Morris, Robert Covington, Nic Batum, KJ Martin. Their probable starting lineup is something like guards: Harden and Paul George, forwards: Kawhi, Terence Mann, center, Ivica Zubac. Their rotation players are Westbrook, Norman Powell, PJ Tucker, Amir Coffey, Mason Plumlee.
They have a lot of talent on both offense and defense, and a lot of problems. One is chemistry, or lack thereof. Even before the trade this is not a team known for cohesion and a clear plan on offense. They tend to trade possessions. Another problem is that there's only one ball, and Harden wants it. To be fair he gets assists, but out of his role as an attacker with the ball. Kawhi and PG are not catch and shoot guys, they tend to need the ball to create a play. On defense, Harden doesn't play it and Terence Mann and Westbrook are pretty suss on that end too. Kawhi and PG do, but that brings up health. What are the odds of PG, Kawhi, Westbrook and Harden making it to through a playoff run healthy?
Thoughts? Remember, we're being scientific adults here.
Where is the lack of chemistry thing coming from?
Was something reported?
They have a bunch of guys who are more individual stars, I'll grant you that, but I've seen (and heard) nothing that indicates there is a team problem. Seems like they have mostly been done in by poor health, and a couple of poor (but not that bad) outings.
If anything I'd say PGIII and Kawhi have been more OK than I would expect over their lack of success.
They prob just doing similar to what we did - assessed their situation and see they had to do something cause George and Kawhi not getting any younger, their window is closing and they cant just "hope" they stay healthy. This i guess atleast gives them a "star" that could do something if one or both are injured
Our situation was different - we couldnt go with so many raw/low bbiq guys but we still had a situation
The Clippers got the best two players in the trade with Tucker and Harden (probably in that order at this point.)
Ty Lue is going to have to earn all the coaching praise he’s gotten and more this year.
My analysis is not quite so scientific, but I wouldn't touch this team with a ten-foot pole. Tons of talent, insatiable egos, moody and temperamental... To quote underrated basketball analyst Bruce Banner, "I mean, what are we, a team? No, no, no. We're a chemical mixture that makes chaos. We're a time bomb."
Oh, shit. You're saying they're the Avengers?
You're quite right. If they had a really good strong solid coach, that could help. But I've always seen Ty Lue as the opposite. He either wants to be a player's friend, which doesn't work, or he wants to be a stern tough guy, which is too much of a pendulum. Seems highly overrated as an actual coach, to me.
So many people closely associated with the game, including some of the players on our team, LOVE Ty Lue. I just don't get it. I think he must be a great guy to play for. Beyond that, he just doesn't show much of anything to set himself aside from a bunch of other coaches. He seems solid but not spectacular to me, and definitely far short of the lavish praise he often gets.
Completely agree. There are these guys that everyone likes. I think they are probably cool dudes to be on a team with. But they get coaching reputations they don't deserve. I think of Doc Rivers that way. Meanwhile Popovich is not a guy to go to the club with...
Depends on the club, I'm sure there are a few eating clubs Pop likes ;)
Wine cellar type places is what I hear. He's an oen -- he's an oenipho -- OK I can't spell it.
I think this trade doesn't make them worse (until Harden gets disgruntled, which probably won't be this year?) but it doesn't immediately make them top contenders.
If one of Kawhi/PG are injured, Harden can manage the game well enough to beat lesser teams anyway, which I'm not convinced is the case with the previous rotation guys in his place. I do think their defense has gotten more suspect—not only because of how Har_en plays most of the time (he *can* defend decently well, but he often doesn't)—but because the guys who moved up in the depth chart as a result are not as good on that end as the guys who were traded away.
And we already know that Westbrook+Harden doesn't work as a combo. So I think the trade raises their ceiling and drops their floor, but I'm undecided if their median outcome got better.
With Harden on the Clips, I envision things similar to the Harden/CP3 and Harden/Westbrook duos - let Harden and the other (CP3 or Westbrook) take turns pounding the air out of the ball while the other player stands around on the weak side 40 feet from the bucket. But now you'll also have Kawhi and PG13 to deal with.
Can't see this going well. According to my eyes, anyway, I think Harden's skills have declined a lot in the past five years and the new league rules are catching up to him as well.
Hopefully, we'll get a lot of drama in LA culminating in a Lakers/Clippers play-in battle for the #8 slot.
“… Harden can manage the game well enough to beat lesser teams…”
Problem is there aren’t many lesser teams right now, especially in the Wild West.
Oh come on, there are like... two and a half in Texas alone.
Yeah the Harden Disgruntlement Clock has already been posted at Staples Center or whatever they're calling it these days, and it's beginning to run down the minutes.
It's a confusing situation. I can see the Clippers losing a game to an average opponent by a lot and then winning the next one by a lot.
I think the best bet is to have Harden and Russ in a Steph/CP3 kind of role respectively.
(Pause. Throwing up noises. Pause. More throwing up noises).
Okay, with that over, Harden and Russ can share the court some of the time but probably not as much as Steph+CP3 will. Having them both on the court at the same time just doesn't make that much sense. When not sharing the court, it does give them some advantages in change of pace and styles. But how will Russ take being back seat... again? How will Harden feel when Ty Lue wants to sub him out to get Russ some burn but he doesn't want to come out? I don't hold out a lot of hope for any meaningful long-term fit between these two guys.
Now, Russ has carved himself a pretty good spot on the Clippers. Bringing Harden in is going to change that and maybe not for the better. You talk about Harden working with the starters... I think he can do that based on his time in Philly and even a little bit in Brooklyn. But Harden and Russ on the court together makes less and less sense the more and more I think about it.
All I know is it will be fascinating to see what happens next. I give it a low probability of anything good, even assuming these guys can all stay healthy. But who knows? That's the magic of basketball and competitive sports in general...
Slater/The Athletic:
That gave Curry 24 second-half points and 42 total in the Warriors’ 130-102 domination. After it — a win that clinched a 3-0 road trip through Sacramento, Houston and New Orleans — Gary Payton II made an interesting observation. There was a particular reason he felt Curry was fresh and ready to slam the fourth-quarter door on both the Rockets and Pelicans.
“With Chris (Paul) here, that cuts half of what he’s gotta do,” Payton said. “Bringing up the ball, going to get it, getting us into offense. We got Chris (to do some of that), so by the time the fourth quarter comes late, he’s got energy. He’s still got energy to do what he does. That’s another strength for us — have CP come in and control, handle the ball and get guys where they need to be and let 30 just run around.”
Link ($): https://theathletic.com/5015376/2023/10/31/stephen-curry-warriors-chris-paul-second-unit/
So Curry only got 18 in the first half. He's still ramping up, I guess.
I wouldn't be surprised if Podz and CoJo are able to keep some of that pressure off of Curry as well. I'm loving the construction of this roster so far. We'll see how we all feel when we go up against some of the giants in the league...
In Celebrini we Trust
Agreed, though I think that’s where the playability of Podz and CoJo comes in.
Agree. It may be premature but Kerr needs to gradually play him less minutes (maybe only 20?) but it seems like we are more and more dependent on him to lead the second unit.
Since Draymond came back the last two games, he’s averaged ~26 minutes per game. I have faith Kerr will be cognizant of not running Paul into the ground.
I’d bet it was part of the conversation with him regarding coming off the bench. “We want to preserve you for the playoffs instead of wearing you down in the regular season like previous teams have done.”
Hats of to Coach Kerr - he certainly learned from last season, He is trying to get all the youngsters to play early in this season - that is a great sign. Maybe get Podz to slowly take over a few minutes from CP3 so he is playing less minutes to increase his likelyhood to be available in the post season.
I am not sure they will be able to keep TJD off the court. He doesn't do that much that is spectacular (well, a couple of nice dunks) but he seems to have that Kevon Looney trait of always being in the right place to make a play, boxes out, gets the rebounds, etc.
He also doesn't look as strong/athletic as he appears to be; he has a quick jump, quick feet and got 3 blocks in pretty limited minutes.
He still needs to anticipate receiving incredible passes when he's in the paint - he muffed a couple of them last night and just didn't seem aware that the passing gods (Steph, Dray, CP3) could find him in traffic like they do.
Getting hit on the shoulder 3 feet from the basket by a 3/4 court pass by Curry was kind of embarrassing.
Yes, he definitely turned a few assists into turnovers but he is a rookie...
It helps that the young guys are playable this season.
Edit: Like g8 said below.
It helps that the team is actually playing connected and they're not trying to currently put out any fires that we're aware of. I also bet their practice culture is less toxic this year, which probably benefits the youth?
It also helps that these young guys can actually play. That /may/ have been true of Moody and Kuminga last year, but Wise, PBJ, and Rollins were empty roster spots.
In addition to those three empty roster spots, we had an assistant coach filling another roster spot last year (Dre). Hence our dependence on our two-way players.
i think that it helps Podz/TJD are a lot more solid in the basic things we need from them vs where Moody/JK were which is understandable since they're older/more experienced coming in.
Podz can handle decently enough and shows strong defense even if undersized. TJD can rebound/play near the basket. Moody and JK excel at things we werent really deficient in as much but have been growing esp Moody's shot
First batch were also drafted with a different mindset - going for more upside and possibility of them taking over for the vets in the future. The vets not declining as fast or at all in Curry's case, and the fact that the rooks didnt develop as fast cause of our situation(not losing & aging)/playing time made for a funky combo until we re-decided to go all in w the vets and add contributors instead of eventual replacements. The fact that we had high picks in this competing window i'm sure also made things more muddled
Rather than arbitrary minutes limits, it will be important for the Warriors to be extremely cautious of how to manage Paul through any of the inevitable soreness, strains, nicks, bumps etc that NBA players all have throughout a season. We don't see any of that most of the time so we will not have insight into why Paul plays minutes how he does. He could play one minute and hurt himself or 30 minutes and not. I think the Warriors performance staff has as good a chance as anyone in the NBA managing Paul so that he is ready to go in the postseason. Here's hoping...
True. But I was happy with what the distribution of minutes vs the Pelicans could mean. Steph (30:02), CP (25:13) and Loon (24:34) played the most, then 7 players spread between 19:50 and 22:48, followed by the 3 "3rd unit" guys at 4:39. All this with JK and Klay sitting with the most cheerful benchers (and smiling coaches!) I've seen in a while. I can dream that this a proof of concept that our starters can rotate more, even when we have DNPs, and the lines between the starters and the 2nd unit continue to blur.
Against challenging teams matchups will dictate that we lean on certain players, but we might one day see 13 guys play 20 minutes. Just theoretical numbers, but it could promote longevity, and even raise the intensity of play for those during the 20-25 minutes they are assigned.
In Celebrini we trust.