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I was only able to listen to the radio feed for portions of the game, but I really can't grok how the Clippers are so bad. Why isn't Kawhi alone beating the world? (I've had that question for years now)

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1. They don't play together. On offense there is no flow whatsoever. They pass it around the perimeter and hope something develops, then someone goes one on one.

2. If you put James Harden and Russell Westbrook into a basketball game, your defense begins to plummet immediately.

3. It appears that the best years of PG and Kawhi are behind them. Or if not, neither is enough of an alpha to go get the ball and make a play every damn time down the court. They disappear for large stretches relative to their skill.

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Well, just from the game yesterday Kawhi is still a top tier scorer but..... that's about it. He's playing like he doesn't give a shit about the team or maybe their game plan calls for him to do that? It seemed like every time he touched the ball he was going to get his shot up no matter what. My turn your turn kind of deal.

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He looked tired to me. 2nd game of a B2B

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And apparently 5th in 7 nights...

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Dec 1, 2023·edited Dec 1, 2023Liked by Eric Apricot

OT: not sure if already posted but GSW youtube put out "1 HOUR of Iconic Warriors Moments From Klay, Stephen and Draymond" https://youtu.be/bcwFG9r95aY?si=4wVp6z8YOaMImWip

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Dec 1, 2023Liked by Eric Apricot

https://x.com/anthonyvslater/status/1730468178327929018?s=46&t=9UCJt84jp_HefsXGrxmdqA

Steve Kerr called tonight Jonathan Kuminga’s best game of the season: “He didn’t foul. Not one foul. And he’s out there guarding Kawhi and Paul George. Used his athleticism. Had five rebounds in the first half.”

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His best game of the season and he had 23 minutes? If I was Kuminga, that comment would have me incensed.

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https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/plus-minus/202311300GSW.html

JK entered the game for the first time after ~8 minutes had passed, he ended up playing 23/40 minutes after that. He played 9.5 minutes in the first half, and 13.5 minutes in the second half (entering the game a little earlier in the 3rd than in the 1st, and staying a little longer in the 4th than in the 2nd).

Note also that after Kerr lauded Moody for his play, he gave Moody a start and played him 27 minutes (which itself is only 4 minutes more than JK's 23, and JK even played 8 more seconds in the 2nd half).

I'd argue that JK played very well, but he wasn't dominating or anything to where you "can't take him off the floor". He's also still not treated as a shooter, so I think Kerr doesn't want to play him with Dray or Loon too much, which will limit his minutes, even if he's playing well. Of course, if he is going to keep hitting 3/5 from beyond the arc, that may change over the course of the season.

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If this isn't "dominating to where you can't take him off the floor" than I have no idea what is.

Kerr wanted him to be a good defender who doesn't foul and rebounds and scores efficiently? Kuminga scored 17 pts splashing three shots from deep (60%) on an incredible 87 TS%. He also grabbed 6 rebounds and dished 3 assists for an EXCELLENT 21 AST%. Defensively, he was excellent with a sterling 36 DFG% while guarding the best players on the floor (Leonard/George).

He did everything asked of him in SPADES this game and it didn't warrant him extra minutes. I'm not talking about Kuminga's minutes in general throughout the season (I think that 20 mpg is just about right given his skillset/roster construction), I'm talking about this game where he was playing out of his mind and Wiggins is out.

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If we had lost the game, or if other players were stinking it up and should have been benched, you'd have a better argument there.

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Dec 1, 2023·edited Dec 1, 2023

Bro, results oriented thinking is a big no no.

Imagine if I magically played on the GS Warriors yesterday and all I did was take a shit on the floor while Curry goes Super Saiyan allowing for us to win. Would the fact that we hadn't lost the game in any way stop you from criticizing Kerr for keeping me in the game while I ripped a big one?

Also, whether or not other players were stinking it up is irrelevant IMHO because player selection is relative. Even if Moody was playing like a prime Klay Thompson, if Podziemski is playing like a prime Steph Curry than I want Podz on the floor and Moody can sit his ass on the bench.

I'm sorry, you just can't convince me that 1) Wiggins isn't playing and his 30 MPG is up for grabs, 2) Kuminga/Wiggins already play a similar role, 3) Kuminga has the best game of his season isn't a recipe for for more Kuminga minutes. The fact that he didn't get more minutes is a travesty.

Kerr is a great coach (amazing man manager, very good X's and O's, and one of the best coaches when it comes to strategic adjustments I've ever seen) but his in-game tactical management continues to be lackluster.

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Who should he have closed over though?

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Dec 1, 2023·edited Dec 1, 2023

Who said anything about closing?

With that being said, if we limit ourselves to the closing lineup than take Moody or Podziemski's minutes (Preferably Moody, since he should have had far more minutes earlier in the game instead of Cory Joseph).

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I just think it's tough to find more minutes for him in that game if he's not closing.

There was a case for starting him though, I thought they were going to start him and Saric but I'm thinking Kerr probably felt like he crossed a line with his handling of Moody the previous game and so he rewarded him with a start.

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I'm actually more infuriated by the lack of Moody minutes this game tbh.

Off the top of my head, there was like 4 minutes of Podz/Curry/Joseph/Kuminga/Saric minutes with Joseph in the game that SHOULD have gone to Moody.

There was also a bunch of Podz/Joseph/Klay/Kuminga/Saric minutes as well that were up for the taking (this one is debatable because Kerr likely prefers two decision makers but I think Podz/Saric are good enough).

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Joseph didn't play poorly at all. More importantly, Moody is NOT A POINT GUARD. We play "positionless" basketball but Kerr wants at least one of the point guards on the floor at all times. In a pinch, Draymond can be our point guard but he is much more effective in the break or playing at the post or below versus on the perimeter.

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Disagree, I think Joseph played poorly playing for 22 minutes and getting 1 pt (missing both his shots and one free throw) and getting 2 assists.

Its not like he doing a great job organizing the offense and was carried by Podz/Saric/Kuminga in those minutes. Not to mention, his defense was terrible with the second worst DFG% in the team.

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I disagree, I thought CoJo was pretty awful.

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Also needed Wiggins and GP2 to be out for those minutes. It's a difficult path for both him and Moody to get around 25 minutes with everyone healthy.

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Dec 1, 2023·edited Dec 1, 2023

Kuminga has been getting 20 MPG consistently throughout the season even with Wiggins/GP2 in. Him getting 23 minutes was the per the norm.

Thats the problem for me, if Kuminga was playing the best game of his season why didn't he get an increase in playing time for this particular game?

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Dec 1, 2023·edited Dec 1, 2023

Perhaps he earned the 3 minutes more, and his average game wouldn't merit 20 MPG normally except for his trade threat? I don't know if I believe that, but it's not a given that his minutes should skyrocket during his best game of the season.

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Hope everyone LOVES watching the Clippers, because we're going to see them again twice within the next ten days. And then... Valentine's day.

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I need a break from watching the Kings, so I’m cool with this… but SO Deaaron Fox, his Kaiser commercial is so cute

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As long as we stack a few wins up and get healthy, I don't care if we play Fenerbahce.

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For a team that a rolls out a Rogues Gallery of Warrior villains from the dynastic era … man, they’re pretty dull, aren’t they?

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Dec 1, 2023·edited Dec 1, 2023

They need a Draymond, s***-stirrer type.

They have a bunch of very quiet players. I wonder who is the guy on the team willing to lay into the other players when they're underperforming? It ain't Kawhi.

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Harden? Westbrook!

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Westbrook, maybe. Or PJ Tucker. I always wonder how much that works if it isn't coming from one of your main players, though.

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Unrelated to tonight's game which I unfortunately took off to restore some of my sanity from last game and not to beat a dead horse too much but had to share this from warriors reddit taygads. Insane that jt orr ref

We were called for 17 shooting fouls last night. SEVENTEEN. Our average so far for the season (which is already padded thanks to the Suns game as well as one of the Minny and Cavs games) is 10.94 per game. We were also called for 4 offensive fouls; our season average is 1.71 per game.

The Kings were called for 11. Their season average so far is 10.27. Kings were called for 1 offensive foul; their season average is 1.33.

Edit to add: also fun fact, JT Orr has officiated 2 games of ours so far, last night and our game against the Cavs on 11/11 during which the Cavs attempted 43 FTAs and we were called for 29 fouls. When you add last night, we average 30 fouls, including 16.5 shooting fouls, and our opponents attempt on average 42.5 FTAs in games he’s reffed in. Our opponents averaged 23.5 fouls in those games and we average 30 FTAs, that’s a 12.5 FTA differential. Even more telling is that in all of his games reffed so far this season, both teams have averaged a **combined** 40.2 fouls and 46.4 FTAs. Yet in our 2 games that he’s reffed, our opponents alone are attempting 42.5 FTAs. That’s insanity

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Is Orr calling a lot of those fouls? He's not the only official on the court.

Besides, even accounting for refs giving opponents breaks we don't get, we foul way too much. That and turnovers have been major Dubs problems for years.

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The bias from past issues seems to leak into current day. Podz did not touch Kawhi at all and was called for a foul. Fortunately the challenge was successful to overturn it.

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Dec 1, 2023·edited Dec 1, 2023

I think there is some truth that teams that get a reputation for fouls get called for more bad fouls.

But, we play small, unathletic lineups that have a hard time staying in front of people. It's not a huge surprise that we commit a lot of fouls (and we do).

In general, I didn't notice that the Sac game had egregious refereeing. I just thought the pace of the game was frenetic, and we fouled way too much because we weren't in position, and we had a lot of turnovers (we nearly doubled Sac up on TOs).

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Dec 1, 2023·edited Dec 1, 2023

The problem is there are some refs/crews that swallow the whistle off-ball, where teams mug the hell out of us, and cause touch fouls on the ball particularly on drives to the basket. That massively favors Sacramento compared to us based on our play styles. Steph was literally getting fouled on every trip down the floor, but because it's off ball and Sacramento established it early on, almost none of it was called.

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Dec 1, 2023·edited Dec 1, 2023

That's the opposite problem ... not getting calls we should get.

Steph is like a center ... he gets fouled every play, but they can't call it. I agree that Sac pushes the limits more than most teams, but that's the way it goes. I don't think it's evidence of bias, which was the premise of the original post.

It is evidence that the league should try to corral those chippy fouls, but I don't really expect them to.

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Dec 1, 2023·edited Dec 1, 2023

Here's the problem I have with that theory: being an elite defense with defenders (presumably) in position seems to be completely unrelated to how you are officiated. It almost seems random

2015 - 1st DRtg, 14th PFs

2016 - 6th DRtg, 23rd PFs

2017 - 2nd DRtg, 13th PFs

2018 - 11th DRtg, 15th PFs

2019 - 11th DRtg, 23rd PFs

2020 - 26th DRtg, 10th PFs

2021 - 5th DRtg, 29th PFs

2022 - 2nd DRtg, 28th PFs

There really doesnt seem to be any coorelation between good defense = less fouls called

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I got stuck listening to the Clipper's commentators whilst watching the replay and they must have been saving this one up because the whole time they kept bringing up Podz looking like Jeremy Allen White's Carmy from The Bear TV series and all things restuarant related. They did do their unsubtle best to jinx Curry on his free throws which was quite funny.

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Did you have the Bally feed? What's up with the percentages constantly hovering above the ball handler? Who ever thought that was a good idea??

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Didn't see that but I do have an idea on what future graphics might look like. Will share on a current thread...

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I know fans won’t miss Draymond’s antics when he retires but we’re going to miss his brilliance on the court when he’s locked in. This guy allowed Steve to play a lot of lineups throughout the years because he’s so good at cleaning up mistakes and making things happen. We likely won’t get someone impactful as him on that end for a very long time if ever again. Appreciate the greatness from Steph and Dray while they’re still here. Klay too. One of the greatest trios if not the greatest to ever play the game.

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Indeed, Dray can be amazing. Its so frustrating that he loses his cool the way he does - it’s a huge loss for himself and the team.

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The lineup that had Steph, Podz, and Joseph in it would have been obliterated without Draymond. And even then, is probably only possible against the Clippers due to their lack of ball movement.

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Of course, his hand was forced by the 3 injuries but I was glad to see Kerr made big adjustments after the SAC disaster. Loved seeing the Steph/Dray/Moody/Kuminga/Podz lineup - like a glimpse of a possible future.

As much as I love Kevon, he's the odd man out in most matchups. He and Dray just can't play together - the lineup almost coughed up the lead in the 3rd and as soon as he subbed out the tide turned.

It's a given that 11-30-23 are closing games, regardless of what people might want with Klay. I think the other two should be Good Wiggs and Moody. Kuminga in place of bad Wiggs. GP2 when healthy in certain matchups. Podz could make a run too. Maybe even Saric in certain matchups.

But Looney I just don't see too many matchups where he makes sense with Draymond. And CP3 really only should be in on offense only facing a press.

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As much as I loved the Steph/Dray/Moody/Podz/Kuminga lineup, it’s awfully small. Don’t you think teams with a lot of height like Minn, Houston, Cleveland would make that group impossible to put on the floor?

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I mean, is it any worse than Steph/Klay/CP3/GP2/Dray that Kerr was using?

I think in certain matchups, Saric or even Loon might be necessary, but not many.

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You're not wrong. That lineup with Klay/CP3/GP2 is even smaller!

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Oh, whuu ... waht?? Huh?

Sorry, I just ... I just woke up.

I fainted when the refs called Draymond's flagrant a common foul.

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Great team win. No one had a bad game. The kids got a good run and the OG rewarded Kerr for sticking with them.

Of course, what else are you going to do? Yes, the second team probably needs to develop more for the dubs to win it all, but it is imperative that the big three play their best. If they don’t, there is no chance of a championship. There are plenty of really good Warriors BB players backing up Steph, Klay and Dray - but there are also plenty of really good BB players all over the league. Many drip with potential. But no one should think for a minute some combination of second team dubs players is going to beat all others. NO team has a more winning starting five than the Warriors have now. Kerr is absolutely spot on to do everything he can to make sure his OG find their rhythm before spending a minute worrying about anyone else’s development.

The kids will get plenty of play, but only after their elders remember how to do their thing - that thing that wins championships. It looks like they’re getting closer.

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"No more buffoonery" -- Ron Adams (Referring presumably to fouling, turnovers, techs, etc.)

#NMB

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Klay pensively thinking about the question while making a paper airplane:

"At times, I can be pressing"

Umm... ya think? haha

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Good things happen when Podz and Moody play. They're playing like they actually have to earn their minutes, so they're locked in, fighting for rebounds, engaged on defense, making the right passes, getting back in transition, and hustling to create transition opportunities. Sure they might make mistakes from time to time, but that's not due to a lack of effort.

Frustrating thing has been when the vets aren't locked in, jack up bad / early / contested shots, throw the ball away, go through the motions of predictable plays, aren't paying attention on defense, get baited into complaining against the refs. If the young players did this, they wouldn't get any time on the floor.

If only vets to played with more of a hungry attitude. Yeah I get it, it's a long season and they don't get up for every game. So then give that time to the younger players who have something to prove.

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Posdnous leading rebounder with 8?!?!

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He's Moses Malone with a jump shot

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So... Dray's hitting over 40% of his 3s doesn't seem to be slowing down. He's made 2 in 6/11 games... that's crazy.

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He seems to be much better at them in the 1st quarter than later in the game and is taking more corner 3s, a shot he has always been capable of hitting.

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And 17 straight FTs.

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Also am I crazy or are they always in the first quarter to get us going?

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Yeah I think it's to put seeds in the opponents minds that he isn't just going to be passive but he hasn't pushed that long enough in most games so far. I think he and the team also recognize collectively they're a bit of an offensive slump so hes trying to pitch in. Thankfully they slowly seem to be getting out of shooting the horrible sub 40s

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