I can believe that they're motivated, but they still have to deal with what's out there. Giving up a bunch of middle of the rotation guys for a 'star' who is constantly hurt, a locker room cancer, or is otherwise unreliable does not seem like a winning move. So unless something falls into their laps (e.g. Durant realizes that he misses the Bay and wants to play with Draymond and Steph again), they may be stuck.
Are we buying or selling? If even Steph has serious doubts that we'll just barely get to the play-in, and Dray is only motivated or pain-free half the time, why not tank? We have some veteran role players that could interest teams close to contention, either to accumulate younger or currently distressed assets for the future or to duck under the tax for a year.
I think you're saying, and I would agree, that a smart strategy is to sell the expiring assets this year, and plan to compete in '26. That would mean collecting assets that might be useful for summer trades?
Makes sense to me if Steph can stomach it. Might be contingent on his belief that the remainder of the season could be spent building comfort with JK, Podz, etc. so that next year there is more of an identity in place from the start. The main barrier I see to this is the unpredictability of what those final free agent or trade pieces might be, and how much of the team's system would potentially shift as a result. There seem to be very few high level guys that can plug in seamlessly to the way Kerr/Steph want to play.
I mean *maybe* some combination of cap space, whatever assets we accumulate this year at the deadline, trade exceptions, and a high first-round pick nets us a budding star next offseason, from some playoff team that needs start managing salary to stay under the second apron.
More realistically, this is just the start of longer rebuild that completes once Steph has ridden off into the sunset. I think his championship window here has closed, and that realization is starting to sink in. How he wants to deal with that is up to him, but he can't magically wave off the CBA and its implications.
I get that the salary cap and the new CBA make things "fairer"... but man, if I have to go another 5 years of having to pay attention to cap gymnastics as a fan, I'm gonna get less interested. I watch to see the beautiful game. All the thinking carefully about roster building, contract structure, and the like are necessary evils... if they become more a factor in rooting for my favorite team, it's not good for my fan experience.
I get that some folks enjoy the GM-ey part of the competition and rooting for their team, and good for them, but I don't really like it. And if the trend to just more guys shooting more and more 3s continues, the beautiful game is going to be less beautiful.
I’m so envious of the two bigs that Cleveland has. Both of them can make their shots: Allen with 25 points and Mobley with 21. Cavs had seven players in double digits, including ex-Warriors Ty Jerome who contributed 15 points from the bench, shooting at 85%.
The pistons are a good team and they play basketball that is not just jacking up humongous number of threes. They are one of the few teams I can actually tolerate the NBA highlights package because otherwise it’s just everyone shooting threes😂
>>>In response to Lakers-Hornets status with wildfires in LA area, NBA spokesman Mike Bass: “We are in communication with the Lakers and Hornets and continue to closely monitor the situation to determine if any scheduling adjustments are necessary related to tomorrow night’s game.”<<<
The mega-frustration and trade dreaming here in DubNation seems to downplay how the same reduced options from the CBA are also screwing with most other teams. The Nuggets wasting Jokic's prime and the whole league feels like it has a two-timeline problem. Might not be much comfort, but I'm sure glad I'm not rooting for the Pacers, Bucks, 76ers, Heat, Clippers, Lakers, Pelicans....
True, but roster construction also has something to do with it. Without anyone over 6’ 9” on the roster puts tremendous pressure on Dray. A McGee-type player might have been all that was really needed.
JaVale was good at a couple of things for less than 10 minutes per game when he was a Warrior. Loved him for what he did. But he was at most the 8th or 9th best player, a useful role player, not a difference maker.
Minnesota and Phoenix might be the most boned by the new CBA honestly. At least we have 4 chips and Denver managed to squeeze 1 out of Jokic before they had to break it up.
Even some of the young, winning teams need only look down the road a bit to see a possible financial crunch coming. OKC has a bunch of picks and young up-and-comers, and right now they have the upper hand, but even they'll need a partial changing of the guard not too far down the line to control salaries.
What about the Rockets? They had Sengun and Jalen Green sign their extension, which will come into effect next season. Sengun is making $5.4 million this season and will make $33.9 million next season, while Green is making $12.5 million this season and will make $33.3 million next season.
Oh, right. FVV's last year of his contract is a team option and not a player option. I wonder what Rockets will try to do to improve their offense next season?
25k acres are on fire in Los Angeles County. Zero containment.
r/nba
•
4 min. ago
PlayaSlayaX
[Haynes] Sources: Los Angeles Clippers star Kawhi Leonard is stepping away from the team to be with family who were forced to evacuate due to the Los Angeles-area wildfires
Yesterday I argued, (including with myself) that the organization would best benefit from trading Steph. But that was in full knowledge that it's extremely unlikely to happen for a variety of reasons including that he is a local icon and that he's very hard to trade as it would require a lot of assets being exchanged. Huge risk for all parties.
But I was also arguing for trading Draymond, and that one seems more like a good idea. Three more years at 25 million a year for a guy who is fading, not rising. That doesn't make sense. On the other hand, there are teams out there who are close to the top who could really use a defensive wizard who can be a leader in a playoff run; and might be ready to trade young talent and picks for that.
Draymond has two more seasons after this (not three), at $25.9M and $27.68M, and the second year is a player option. He is signed for the same amount of time as Steph and one year longer than Kerr.
As AJ notes, it's questionable what we could get for Dray, even though he can still play, if only because of his antics. The Dubs tolerate a lot because he's their guy, and he does still provide a lot of value in Kerr's system, especially paired with Steph. If he were part of a larger trade that brought us a real difference maker, I wouldn't object. I would prefer to see him stay here and come off the bench otherwise.
Draymond is still really valuable on this roster as a 5. Him playing at the 4 (when JK is healthy) is the issue. Not opposed to trading him, but I am skeptical about what the return could be.
He’s certainly valuable. I’m not arguing that. I am just saying that if the window is closing, let’s not add one small trade and hope it reopens the window; but instead take that which we have of value that can be made more youthful.
Man i’m old enough to remember when Poole was so gahdang awful in 2022-23 that i was ready to crown Dunleavy executive of the year for getting rid of that newly signed contract and a protected first round pickin exchange for Paul.
Also slightly less old enough to remember watching Poole his first year in Washington and thinking that there was no way anyone would ever trade for that contract at least for the next 2-3 years
Now we are talking about Poole potentially being a difference maker this year if we woulda just held on to him.
I might be in the minority here but I was never a fan of JP as a basketball player even though I acknowledge he played a big role in relief of Steph during his tenure with us. Every time I hear a younger kid learning the game saying they look up to him as a basketball player it makes me cringe a little bit lol
Your former instincts are correct. Poole has never been much more than a guy who shoots a lot. Sometimes they go in but never all that high of efficiency and sometimes awful efficiency. He's also a truly rotten defensive player and not a guy who improves team morale. A ball hog who shoots a lot and Washington looks like it.
He put up a .598 TS% in 21-22. And he's got a .595 TS% this year. It's no surprise those are the years he's actually hitting his 3P's. But when he does, he's actually pretty efficient. The rest of your comment is definitely true.
Let’s remember that in the dubs he was either the beneficiary of Steph’s gravity for more open looks, or was playing against bench guys. In Washington he’s being asked to do more and I just would not trust him to lead a team to anything much
Asking TJD to start at the 5 is just too much honestly. He's an ideal backup that would be great to have in your back pocket for certain matchups but he's just not a full time sort of guy. Doubt he'll ever develop into one... at least not an effective one.
Asking TJD to start at the five simply depends on who else is on the roster. Asking Looney to start at the five is an even worse idea. He's unable to play offense on an NBA roster and we have long pretended that that's just the price of business with centers. It's such a shock to the system when TJD rolls and dunks and I'm like "WHAT?? OUR CENTER IS ALLOWED TO DO THAT?"
Indeed. I doubt MDJ and Kerr thought of him as a long-term starter when they drafted him with the 57th pick. He was the best they could do under the circumstances.
But look at the bright side: Unlike some Dubs draft picks (naming no names), he's getting plenty of reps to help him improve! But that probably wasn't the plan.
Getting the sense the higher ups just went into full panic mode so I wouldn’t be too surprised to see another trade in the next week or two
I can believe that they're motivated, but they still have to deal with what's out there. Giving up a bunch of middle of the rotation guys for a 'star' who is constantly hurt, a locker room cancer, or is otherwise unreliable does not seem like a winning move. So unless something falls into their laps (e.g. Durant realizes that he misses the Bay and wants to play with Draymond and Steph again), they may be stuck.
Good luck finding something that works... now MDJ gets to earn that paycheck, making hard decisions.
Are we buying or selling? If even Steph has serious doubts that we'll just barely get to the play-in, and Dray is only motivated or pain-free half the time, why not tank? We have some veteran role players that could interest teams close to contention, either to accumulate younger or currently distressed assets for the future or to duck under the tax for a year.
I think you're saying, and I would agree, that a smart strategy is to sell the expiring assets this year, and plan to compete in '26. That would mean collecting assets that might be useful for summer trades?
Makes sense to me if Steph can stomach it. Might be contingent on his belief that the remainder of the season could be spent building comfort with JK, Podz, etc. so that next year there is more of an identity in place from the start. The main barrier I see to this is the unpredictability of what those final free agent or trade pieces might be, and how much of the team's system would potentially shift as a result. There seem to be very few high level guys that can plug in seamlessly to the way Kerr/Steph want to play.
I mean *maybe* some combination of cap space, whatever assets we accumulate this year at the deadline, trade exceptions, and a high first-round pick nets us a budding star next offseason, from some playoff team that needs start managing salary to stay under the second apron.
More realistically, this is just the start of longer rebuild that completes once Steph has ridden off into the sunset. I think his championship window here has closed, and that realization is starting to sink in. How he wants to deal with that is up to him, but he can't magically wave off the CBA and its implications.
I get that the salary cap and the new CBA make things "fairer"... but man, if I have to go another 5 years of having to pay attention to cap gymnastics as a fan, I'm gonna get less interested. I watch to see the beautiful game. All the thinking carefully about roster building, contract structure, and the like are necessary evils... if they become more a factor in rooting for my favorite team, it's not good for my fan experience.
I get that some folks enjoy the GM-ey part of the competition and rooting for their team, and good for them, but I don't really like it. And if the trend to just more guys shooting more and more 3s continues, the beautiful game is going to be less beautiful.
Safe to say with Lacob as owner we won’t be sellers with a healthy Steph. Now if Steph demands a trade then everything changes
Or perhaps more accurately, with a semi-healthy Steph (if his knee tendonitis is chronic).
Nuggets beat the Clippers 126-103
If Clippers lose tonight, that would be four teams in the Pacific Division that lost to a bad team or a shorthanded team.
I’m so envious of the two bigs that Cleveland has. Both of them can make their shots: Allen with 25 points and Mobley with 21. Cavs had seven players in double digits, including ex-Warriors Ty Jerome who contributed 15 points from the bench, shooting at 85%.
Cavs beat the Thunder 129-122
This cavs team may very well break 73-9 especially in a weak east
What would you put the odds at that tonight's Cleveland OKC game is in fact the finals matchup? That vs. all other outcomes, what is the likelihood?
I'm going with one in four.
Something like that. .5 x .5.
Pistons are 7-1 in their last 8 games; 8-1 if they win tonight. And Pacers are 5-1 in their last 6 games.
Pistons won tonight and are now 8-2 in their last ten games. They are likely going to kick our butts tomorrow on the second night B2B for them 😩
The pistons are a good team and they play basketball that is not just jacking up humongous number of threes. They are one of the few teams I can actually tolerate the NBA highlights package because otherwise it’s just everyone shooting threes😂
For the losing Nets-
Reece Beekman: 24 minutes, 1-5 shooting, 1 rebound, 5 assists, 2 steals, 1 block
It’s a showdown between OKC and CLE in what is being billed as a preview of the finals. Close game.
>>>In response to Lakers-Hornets status with wildfires in LA area, NBA spokesman Mike Bass: “We are in communication with the Lakers and Hornets and continue to closely monitor the situation to determine if any scheduling adjustments are necessary related to tomorrow night’s game.”<<<
https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1877124640067195288
Lakers have a five-game homestand coming up.
1/9- vs. Hornets
1/11, 1/13- vs. Spurs
1/15- vs. Heat
1/17- vs. Nets
LA Kings game @Crypto was cancelled for tonight.
The mega-frustration and trade dreaming here in DubNation seems to downplay how the same reduced options from the CBA are also screwing with most other teams. The Nuggets wasting Jokic's prime and the whole league feels like it has a two-timeline problem. Might not be much comfort, but I'm sure glad I'm not rooting for the Pacers, Bucks, 76ers, Heat, Clippers, Lakers, Pelicans....
True, but roster construction also has something to do with it. Without anyone over 6’ 9” on the roster puts tremendous pressure on Dray. A McGee-type player might have been all that was really needed.
The Celtics got Queta for nothing…
JaVale was good at a couple of things for less than 10 minutes per game when he was a Warrior. Loved him for what he did. But he was at most the 8th or 9th best player, a useful role player, not a difference maker.
Minnesota and Phoenix might be the most boned by the new CBA honestly. At least we have 4 chips and Denver managed to squeeze 1 out of Jokic before they had to break it up.
Even some of the young, winning teams need only look down the road a bit to see a possible financial crunch coming. OKC has a bunch of picks and young up-and-comers, and right now they have the upper hand, but even they'll need a partial changing of the guard not too far down the line to control salaries.
What about the Rockets? They had Sengun and Jalen Green sign their extension, which will come into effect next season. Sengun is making $5.4 million this season and will make $33.9 million next season, while Green is making $12.5 million this season and will make $33.3 million next season.
33M doesn't seem that bad? FVV's 44M can come off the books after this season (team option), so I feel they might be OK?
Oh, right. FVV's last year of his contract is a team option and not a player option. I wonder what Rockets will try to do to improve their offense next season?
25k acres are on fire in Los Angeles County. Zero containment.
r/nba
•
4 min. ago
PlayaSlayaX
[Haynes] Sources: Los Angeles Clippers star Kawhi Leonard is stepping away from the team to be with family who were forced to evacuate due to the Los Angeles-area wildfires
I wonder if more athletes will be affected
I'd be shocked if they aren't
Yesterday I argued, (including with myself) that the organization would best benefit from trading Steph. But that was in full knowledge that it's extremely unlikely to happen for a variety of reasons including that he is a local icon and that he's very hard to trade as it would require a lot of assets being exchanged. Huge risk for all parties.
But I was also arguing for trading Draymond, and that one seems more like a good idea. Three more years at 25 million a year for a guy who is fading, not rising. That doesn't make sense. On the other hand, there are teams out there who are close to the top who could really use a defensive wizard who can be a leader in a playoff run; and might be ready to trade young talent and picks for that.
Draymond has two more seasons after this (not three), at $25.9M and $27.68M, and the second year is a player option. He is signed for the same amount of time as Steph and one year longer than Kerr.
As AJ notes, it's questionable what we could get for Dray, even though he can still play, if only because of his antics. The Dubs tolerate a lot because he's their guy, and he does still provide a lot of value in Kerr's system, especially paired with Steph. If he were part of a larger trade that brought us a real difference maker, I wouldn't object. I would prefer to see him stay here and come off the bench otherwise.
Draymond is still really valuable on this roster as a 5. Him playing at the 4 (when JK is healthy) is the issue. Not opposed to trading him, but I am skeptical about what the return could be.
Sure, he has value, but not as a 30mpg player who handles that ball a ton.
But I don't think that's gonna change as long as Curry and Kerr are here.
He’s certainly valuable. I’m not arguing that. I am just saying that if the window is closing, let’s not add one small trade and hope it reopens the window; but instead take that which we have of value that can be made more youthful.
I thought you won that argument handily.
I typically lose those
https://x.com/LakersDailyCom/status/1876834129695674554
I've seen enough. Trade for AD IMMEDIATELY.
He caught the Warriors Miss Layup virus
Cuz he'd fit right in?
Man i’m old enough to remember when Poole was so gahdang awful in 2022-23 that i was ready to crown Dunleavy executive of the year for getting rid of that newly signed contract and a protected first round pickin exchange for Paul.
Also slightly less old enough to remember watching Poole his first year in Washington and thinking that there was no way anyone would ever trade for that contract at least for the next 2-3 years
Now we are talking about Poole potentially being a difference maker this year if we woulda just held on to him.
The year that Kerr let him do whatever with no accountability because of the draymond punch shouldn’t count
>Now we are talking about Poole potentially being a difference maker this year if we woulda just held on to him.
That, however, says a lot more about how awful our supposed second options are.
I might be in the minority here but I was never a fan of JP as a basketball player even though I acknowledge he played a big role in relief of Steph during his tenure with us. Every time I hear a younger kid learning the game saying they look up to him as a basketball player it makes me cringe a little bit lol
Your former instincts are correct. Poole has never been much more than a guy who shoots a lot. Sometimes they go in but never all that high of efficiency and sometimes awful efficiency. He's also a truly rotten defensive player and not a guy who improves team morale. A ball hog who shoots a lot and Washington looks like it.
He put up a .598 TS% in 21-22. And he's got a .595 TS% this year. It's no surprise those are the years he's actually hitting his 3P's. But when he does, he's actually pretty efficient. The rest of your comment is definitely true.
Let’s remember that in the dubs he was either the beneficiary of Steph’s gravity for more open looks, or was playing against bench guys. In Washington he’s being asked to do more and I just would not trust him to lead a team to anything much
Right but look at the other years and ask if you trust a player like that
I'm not saying I trust JP to lead a team as the #1 option, just that to say he never has high efficiency is a wrong statement.
Asking TJD to start at the 5 is just too much honestly. He's an ideal backup that would be great to have in your back pocket for certain matchups but he's just not a full time sort of guy. Doubt he'll ever develop into one... at least not an effective one.
Asking TJD to start at the five simply depends on who else is on the roster. Asking Looney to start at the five is an even worse idea. He's unable to play offense on an NBA roster and we have long pretended that that's just the price of business with centers. It's such a shock to the system when TJD rolls and dunks and I'm like "WHAT?? OUR CENTER IS ALLOWED TO DO THAT?"
Wait until we see a center that can attempt this shot called a jump hook
We have seen that just recently. Unfortunately, the center was on the other team.
A what??? Now you’re just inventing moves to sound cool. No one taller than 6’4” can both jump and hook. Stop making stuff up
Indeed. I doubt MDJ and Kerr thought of him as a long-term starter when they drafted him with the 57th pick. He was the best they could do under the circumstances.
But look at the bright side: Unlike some Dubs draft picks (naming no names), he's getting plenty of reps to help him improve! But that probably wasn't the plan.