Dubs have no excuse if they don't mop up against the Heat tomorrow night. Heat led by 17 partway through the 4th and were outscored 24-7 down the stretch. Lots of "Herro" ball - plenty of forced shots
As I understand it OKC engaged purposely in a strategy of collecting picks. Particularly first round picks. In order to do this, they traded away all their best players in a timely and have been used the picks to acquire good players, resulting in the present team. Not sure how they did in the draft. But is this a strategy for the Warriors?
They had only two really bad years of suckage plus one losing season after that, not bad considering what they built.
As for drafting, they still have several of their draft picks, the best of which of course is Holmgren but they also drafted and kept the Williams "brothers" (Jaylin and Jalen), Aaron Wiggins, Dillon Jones, and Ajay Mitchell. Of those, only Chet was a top 10 (#2) pick. They traded Giddy (#6) for Caruso, not a bad deal. They grabbed Derek Lively at #12 and dealt him to Dallas for Davis Bertans and Cason Wallace and kept Wallace, a #10 pick and still just 21 years old and developing. (Bertans was dealt to Charlotte in the Gordon Hayward deal, which didn't work out.) They drafted Sengun at 16 and immediately flipped him to Houston for four first round picks, two of which were conditional and didn't convey. Overall, they did pretty well.
1. Lacob doesn't want to tank. Nor will he trade Steph, I think.
2. The only teams Steph would be attractive to are teams that want to contend right now. Late-career Steph on what would be a crippling contract for most other contenders is not going to bring back the same kind of assets that prime Paul George did.
At $60 million a year, what level of production makes that a plus for some other team? You can argue he's performing to the level of his contract now, but will he be year after next?
3. This is completely my speculation, but I think throwing 3 or 4 number 1 picks into trades is probably going to happen less often now that there is the second apron.
That has increased the value of players on cost-controlled contracts (draft picks).
>>>Lots of talk about Detroit being a 3rd team for Beal. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me as to why they would want him but have to do some more digging. They have cap space but young team on the rise so unless heavily incentivized no real reason. Still need to do more work on that<<<
I mean, Tobias Harris gets them halfway there (but with another $26M next year) and Tim Hardaway is expiring. That makes $40M in salary going out, and I think they have the cap space to absorb the additional $10M. So if Miami is just "done" with Himmy, they could take those two veterans back, and Detroit picks up Beal to complement Cunningham. There's a vision... especially if Detroit receives some draft capital on top of that.
I don't think Phoenix can trade any more FRPs. And if Miami has to trade picks just to get rid of Butler, I think I'd want the Warriors to jump back in.
Apparently, 2nd round picks are the new "protected first round pick"... or whatever. Even taking 3-4 second round picks back would be worth something... with the new CBA, that $$ saved by giving a 2nd round guy a guaranteed contract instead of having to hire a vet min guy is worth something... and the talent pool seems to be getting deeper every year, to the level that 2nd round picks seem to be more likely to stick in the league than they used to.
As for the Warriors, I'm with G&B, I don't think there's a reasonable way for them to jump back in the Jimmy Butler trade situation unless it's something like sending out GP2 & Loon for Hardaway Jr or something minor.
Nah- the Warriors know better than anyone how first round picks are a crapshoot, and you'd still have to get rid of Wiggins and/or Kuminga to make it work.
Next up: the Miami Heat tomorrow on a SEGABABA (they're playing in Sacramento tonight) without Himmy.
We're on our 3rd game in 4 nights, but it's at least it's not the B2B portion. The Sacramento game was a SEGBABA & 3rd game in 4 nights for us... I still hate how we played, but they'd played a lot recently.
Wahoo, I got my yearly tickets to go see the Sea Dubs play. Oooh, and I get a backpack too. The Mexico Capitanes with JTA will be there about a week before I will.
>>>Per @cleantheglass, the Thunder are the #1 defense vs top ten offenses this season. Holding teams to an ORTG of 108.2. 3.6 pts better than second place HOU.
The Cavs are the #1 offense vs top 10 defenses this season. With an ORTG of 121.8. 5 pts better than the second place NYK.<<<
You know, it's only been 8 years since that 2016 playoff run. And they're both back on top again. I'm really impressed that they're both in the running for a 'chipagain so soon. Some teams are just run better than others.
>>>As for Beal the no-trade looms large. He could have went to Milwaukee before he ended up in Phoenix but that was turned down. Have heard he would waive no trade for LA, Miami, Denver but I do believe there are a few others that he could ultimately decide work for him.<<<
With you. It was fun when Steph and Klay were pioneering this 3pt approach but it is real boring to watch now. I actually enjoy watching the Detroit posting play as, at least from the nba highlights I watch on YouTube they seem less reliant of hitting gazillian 3 pointers.
Could be worse, still could be 22ft. but if all they did this time was move the arc back some 4 inches or so it would not eliminate the the corner 3s but would make them easier to press when you have others further away from the basket. Just a thought.
I'd rather see them change the officiating to stop allowing offensive players to shove defenders around and get cheap whistles. I think this would actually reduce the 3-pt barrage because we'd see more 1:1 defense.
It opened up the court but it also inspired run-and-gun teams that would rather heave 3s than take advantage of that space with cuts and interior play. At least the dynasty Dubs didn't just shoot 3s, although we had the best two shooters; we also had guys like Igoudala, Livingston, JaVale, et. al, getting to the rim or sinking midrange shots while the defense was trying to slow down Steph and Klay.
I remember someone suggesting that (I think Patrick Chapin on a MTG pod, of all things). The main problem is the stadiums are already built, so widening the court means fewer floor seats, which means WAY less money for owners. So no chance
Not that I am advocating for this but if they eliminate the corner 3, the court does not have to be wider. The arc would be flatter and end at the sidelines higher up, and the whole line would, per Hoops2518's suggestion, be moved back.
I think that's what H2518 is suggesting, yes. No widening, the corner 3 goes away. It could be interesting to try it in some G League exhibition games or some such thing just to see what happens.
>>>Dallas Mavericks star Kyrie Irving has a bulging disc in his back and is expected to miss at least 1 to 2 weeks. There is optimism that treatment over the coming days will provide a return to play target date.<<<
When you connect the dots, everything starts to make more sense. Johnson and Looney fill two key needs for the Pacers. Nesmith is a player the Warriors are monitoring, and Sharpe could replace Looney in Golden State's rotation. The Nets can continue to stockpile draft assets and bring in versatile players like Toppin, Payton, and others.
The Warriors are currently evaluating all of their options on the trade market for cost-effective moves that won't tie up the organization's long-term financial situation, sources said. Flexibility remains a priority for Golden State, and they continue to search for ways to better their outlook during the 2024-25 season.
Nesmith is a player the Warriors hold interest in should he be on the trade block or involved in conversations between the Pacers and Nets for Johnson
Wouldn’t mind Nesmith, 25 with a 60TS% in his 3 years in Indy.Not the best passer but I’m not sure why the Pacers would want to trade him. Under a cheap contract for two more years.
I really hope we're not actually interested in Nesmith. He seems like an okay player but just a mehhhhhhhhhhh move for this current team especially if we're giving up Loon. Maybe if GP2 was involved that'd be better
I'm okay with it if we can get both Nesmith and Vucevic with what we have left to trade. Get a cheap 3 n d player that's more consistent than Moody/Lindy/Buddy and also a stretch 5.
So I just had a random thought. First, a disclaimer in that relative to contribution Steph earned his contract. Period.
However, I was remembering a conversation I saw somewhere (maybe here?) in which one side was saying that they'd like to see Steph pull a Duncan and take less to make the team better and the other side saying it wouldn't make a difference because, unless it was a huge discount, we still wouldn't have enough to get a difference maker. But isn't the second argument wrong? For example, a guy people are talking about is Cam Johnson of the Nets. And we can't really get him in a reasonable trade because he has those weird bonuses in his contract that make the money not quite work, but wouldn't a few mil off Steph's contract fix that problem (regardless of if Johnson fixes our problems :D)? Seems like his salary is probably going to hamstring us for the rest of his career (even assuming he is able to maintain his level of play over that time span. And, yes, I am aware the cap is rumored to be going up , but so will the expected salaries of the players we are interested in ...
Not only has Steph earned his max perhaps more than any other player in terms of titles, years, revenue and fan interest, he also took that cheap deal when his ankles were a question mark.
He took a fair deal when his ankles were questionable. No one was predicting this kinda upside if it worked out.
Also, the league has a cap, so even if he's earned it, that doesn't take away from the fact it limits the teams ability to build around him.
I was hoping he would take less for the sake of team building, 😭 he's a billionaire. I just can't comprehend being that rich and taking a few million more over team construction.
So every thing you wrote is correct (and I really feel that I've already conceded all those points). I was writing purely for the sake of discussion, but I wonder, in a world where it was possible, how much salary Steph would give up to win another championship. Some players would not give up a penny and I already referenced Duncan who was the opposite (my fuzzy memory feels like maybe Dirk also did that). I'm not judging, I don't know which decision I would make were I (swimming) in his shoes.
Can't renegotiate the contract at this point, it's all guaranteed. Even if we're talking about Steph taking this kind of discount in the summer before signing the extension, it wouldn't affect his salary this year or next.
His salary WILL hamstring us for the rest of his career. So we better hope he keeps playing at an elite level deserving of the highest salary in the league. He's probably underperforming that right now, tbh, but not by all that much.
I'm not sure what you are saying ... the amount Steph gets paid for this year and the following two are already set (contracts can't get renegotiated in the NBA). The only thing that's in play is contracts for the 2027-2028 season and beyond. Chances are, Steph won't be making $50 mil in his next contract, regardless. If I can do math, that would be his age 39 season.
And that assumes Steph will play beyond his current contract. If his knees continue to be problematic, two more years (or even one more, worst case) might be all he wants. He can go play golf or whatever else his heart desires.
The fact that the Warriors are THIS atrocious on FTs and layups this season is very disturbing to me.
https://xcancel.com/automaticnba/status/1876403941350740116
Goes to show how much a lack of big man is effecting us now especially since the curry and draymond two man game is less effective
Analysis:
-Keegan Murray looks good again.
-Sabonis is still very good.
-DeRozan is clutch in OT.
-Monk was off tonight.
-Ellis is a great 3-and-D player.
Kings beat the Heat 123-118 in double OT
Kings-Heat going to overtime
And now 2OT lol
Jaquez bricks two FT that could have iced it for MIA, Ellis bricks one that could have won it for SAC.
All Heat starters have played 41+ minutes, and four with at least 45
Dubs have no excuse if they don't mop up against the Heat tomorrow night. Heat led by 17 partway through the 4th and were outscored 24-7 down the stretch. Lots of "Herro" ball - plenty of forced shots
Without JK I predict a random 3-pt shooting game again for the dubs - so who the heck knows what might happen?
Yep without jk none of our guys drive the ball, Steph used to do it but not anymore at his age.
Spider-Man meme tomorrow, then?
Wolves beat the Clippers 108-106.
As I understand it OKC engaged purposely in a strategy of collecting picks. Particularly first round picks. In order to do this, they traded away all their best players in a timely and have been used the picks to acquire good players, resulting in the present team. Not sure how they did in the draft. But is this a strategy for the Warriors?
They had only two really bad years of suckage plus one losing season after that, not bad considering what they built.
As for drafting, they still have several of their draft picks, the best of which of course is Holmgren but they also drafted and kept the Williams "brothers" (Jaylin and Jalen), Aaron Wiggins, Dillon Jones, and Ajay Mitchell. Of those, only Chet was a top 10 (#2) pick. They traded Giddy (#6) for Caruso, not a bad deal. They grabbed Derek Lively at #12 and dealt him to Dallas for Davis Bertans and Cason Wallace and kept Wallace, a #10 pick and still just 21 years old and developing. (Bertans was dealt to Charlotte in the Gordon Hayward deal, which didn't work out.) They drafted Sengun at 16 and immediately flipped him to Houston for four first round picks, two of which were conditional and didn't convey. Overall, they did pretty well.
Is the possible strategy for the Warriors?
I'd say no.
1. Lacob doesn't want to tank. Nor will he trade Steph, I think.
2. The only teams Steph would be attractive to are teams that want to contend right now. Late-career Steph on what would be a crippling contract for most other contenders is not going to bring back the same kind of assets that prime Paul George did.
At $60 million a year, what level of production makes that a plus for some other team? You can argue he's performing to the level of his contract now, but will he be year after next?
3. This is completely my speculation, but I think throwing 3 or 4 number 1 picks into trades is probably going to happen less often now that there is the second apron.
That has increased the value of players on cost-controlled contracts (draft picks).
>>>Lots of talk about Detroit being a 3rd team for Beal. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me as to why they would want him but have to do some more digging. They have cap space but young team on the rise so unless heavily incentivized no real reason. Still need to do more work on that<<<
https://x.com/gambo987/status/1876368543836762268
I mean, Tobias Harris gets them halfway there (but with another $26M next year) and Tim Hardaway is expiring. That makes $40M in salary going out, and I think they have the cap space to absorb the additional $10M. So if Miami is just "done" with Himmy, they could take those two veterans back, and Detroit picks up Beal to complement Cunningham. There's a vision... especially if Detroit receives some draft capital on top of that.
I don't think Phoenix can trade any more FRPs. And if Miami has to trade picks just to get rid of Butler, I think I'd want the Warriors to jump back in.
Apparently, 2nd round picks are the new "protected first round pick"... or whatever. Even taking 3-4 second round picks back would be worth something... with the new CBA, that $$ saved by giving a 2nd round guy a guaranteed contract instead of having to hire a vet min guy is worth something... and the talent pool seems to be getting deeper every year, to the level that 2nd round picks seem to be more likely to stick in the league than they used to.
As for the Warriors, I'm with G&B, I don't think there's a reasonable way for them to jump back in the Jimmy Butler trade situation unless it's something like sending out GP2 & Loon for Hardaway Jr or something minor.
Nah- the Warriors know better than anyone how first round picks are a crapshoot, and you'd still have to get rid of Wiggins and/or Kuminga to make it work.
If only we still had CP3's salary.
Next up: the Miami Heat tomorrow on a SEGABABA (they're playing in Sacramento tonight) without Himmy.
We're on our 3rd game in 4 nights, but it's at least it's not the B2B portion. The Sacramento game was a SEGBABA & 3rd game in 4 nights for us... I still hate how we played, but they'd played a lot recently.
Gotta give SGA his flowers, he's been pretty damn special this year.
With his team killing it in the West, he should be a top MVP candidate. OKC has won 15 straight.
I thought losing Chet would be much bigger blow than it’s been.
Wahoo, I got my yearly tickets to go see the Sea Dubs play. Oooh, and I get a backpack too. The Mexico Capitanes with JTA will be there about a week before I will.
We will expect periodic Sea Dubs progress reports.
>>>Per @cleantheglass, the Thunder are the #1 defense vs top ten offenses this season. Holding teams to an ORTG of 108.2. 3.6 pts better than second place HOU.
The Cavs are the #1 offense vs top 10 defenses this season. With an ORTG of 121.8. 5 pts better than the second place NYK.<<<
https://x.com/cavsanada/status/1876350820251578584
The 2016 Finals matchup that never was. 😊
You know, it's only been 8 years since that 2016 playoff run. And they're both back on top again. I'm really impressed that they're both in the running for a 'chipagain so soon. Some teams are just run better than others.
The Cavs also were in the Finals in '17 and '18, and even managed to win one of the nine games played :)
>>>As for Beal the no-trade looms large. He could have went to Milwaukee before he ended up in Phoenix but that was turned down. Have heard he would waive no trade for LA, Miami, Denver but I do believe there are a few others that he could ultimately decide work for him.<<<
https://x.com/gambo987/status/1876366810897150088
Is it time for the NBA to make another big change?
Eliminate the corner 3 and move the line back about 2 feet.
Growing tired of almost everyone in the league except TJD and Looney firing away.
I swear after watching a game it feels like 60 pct of the shots are 3’s even when I know that is not the case. It feels like it.
With you. It was fun when Steph and Klay were pioneering this 3pt approach but it is real boring to watch now. I actually enjoy watching the Detroit posting play as, at least from the nba highlights I watch on YouTube they seem less reliant of hitting gazillian 3 pointers.
Could be worse, still could be 22ft. but if all they did this time was move the arc back some 4 inches or so it would not eliminate the the corner 3s but would make them easier to press when you have others further away from the basket. Just a thought.
I'd rather see them change the officiating to stop allowing offensive players to shove defenders around and get cheap whistles. I think this would actually reduce the 3-pt barrage because we'd see more 1:1 defense.
Why not both?
Remember, Pop said the three was ruining the game!
I like that it opened up the court but I hate that it seems to have created a bunch of modern day players that are like clones.
It opened up the court but it also inspired run-and-gun teams that would rather heave 3s than take advantage of that space with cuts and interior play. At least the dynasty Dubs didn't just shoot 3s, although we had the best two shooters; we also had guys like Igoudala, Livingston, JaVale, et. al, getting to the rim or sinking midrange shots while the defense was trying to slow down Steph and Klay.
We also had a guy with a pretty good mid range game….what was his name……..KB, no KD. He helped a little 😊
I remember someone suggesting that (I think Patrick Chapin on a MTG pod, of all things). The main problem is the stadiums are already built, so widening the court means fewer floor seats, which means WAY less money for owners. So no chance
Not that I am advocating for this but if they eliminate the corner 3, the court does not have to be wider. The arc would be flatter and end at the sidelines higher up, and the whole line would, per Hoops2518's suggestion, be moved back.
Oh, would this involve moving the entire 3pt line back instead of just widening the court?
I think that's what H2518 is suggesting, yes. No widening, the corner 3 goes away. It could be interesting to try it in some G League exhibition games or some such thing just to see what happens.
>>>Dallas Mavericks star Kyrie Irving has a bulging disc in his back and is expected to miss at least 1 to 2 weeks. There is optimism that treatment over the coming days will provide a return to play target date.<<<
https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1876357736637833227
https://clutchpoints.com/sources-pacers-reason-warriors-watching-cam-johnson-trade-talks
When you connect the dots, everything starts to make more sense. Johnson and Looney fill two key needs for the Pacers. Nesmith is a player the Warriors are monitoring, and Sharpe could replace Looney in Golden State's rotation. The Nets can continue to stockpile draft assets and bring in versatile players like Toppin, Payton, and others.
The Warriors are currently evaluating all of their options on the trade market for cost-effective moves that won't tie up the organization's long-term financial situation, sources said. Flexibility remains a priority for Golden State, and they continue to search for ways to better their outlook during the 2024-25 season.
Nesmith is a player the Warriors hold interest in should he be on the trade block or involved in conversations between the Pacers and Nets for Johnson
-------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, if I'm trading Loon it's for a clear upgrade not for another player who has the same limited skillset as him but isn't as good lol.
Wouldn’t mind Nesmith, 25 with a 60TS% in his 3 years in Indy.Not the best passer but I’m not sure why the Pacers would want to trade him. Under a cheap contract for two more years.
This is more like Charlie from Always Sunny with the crime board, than anything else... haha
I really hope we're not actually interested in Nesmith. He seems like an okay player but just a mehhhhhhhhhhh move for this current team especially if we're giving up Loon. Maybe if GP2 was involved that'd be better
I'm okay with it if we can get both Nesmith and Vucevic with what we have left to trade. Get a cheap 3 n d player that's more consistent than Moody/Lindy/Buddy and also a stretch 5.
So I just had a random thought. First, a disclaimer in that relative to contribution Steph earned his contract. Period.
However, I was remembering a conversation I saw somewhere (maybe here?) in which one side was saying that they'd like to see Steph pull a Duncan and take less to make the team better and the other side saying it wouldn't make a difference because, unless it was a huge discount, we still wouldn't have enough to get a difference maker. But isn't the second argument wrong? For example, a guy people are talking about is Cam Johnson of the Nets. And we can't really get him in a reasonable trade because he has those weird bonuses in his contract that make the money not quite work, but wouldn't a few mil off Steph's contract fix that problem (regardless of if Johnson fixes our problems :D)? Seems like his salary is probably going to hamstring us for the rest of his career (even assuming he is able to maintain his level of play over that time span. And, yes, I am aware the cap is rumored to be going up , but so will the expected salaries of the players we are interested in ...
Not only has Steph earned his max perhaps more than any other player in terms of titles, years, revenue and fan interest, he also took that cheap deal when his ankles were a question mark.
I don’t expect he’ll ever take a discount.
He took a fair deal when his ankles were questionable. No one was predicting this kinda upside if it worked out.
Also, the league has a cap, so even if he's earned it, that doesn't take away from the fact it limits the teams ability to build around him.
I was hoping he would take less for the sake of team building, 😭 he's a billionaire. I just can't comprehend being that rich and taking a few million more over team construction.
So every thing you wrote is correct (and I really feel that I've already conceded all those points). I was writing purely for the sake of discussion, but I wonder, in a world where it was possible, how much salary Steph would give up to win another championship. Some players would not give up a penny and I already referenced Duncan who was the opposite (my fuzzy memory feels like maybe Dirk also did that). I'm not judging, I don't know which decision I would make were I (swimming) in his shoes.
bron and KD also took sliiim haircuts
Can't renegotiate the contract at this point, it's all guaranteed. Even if we're talking about Steph taking this kind of discount in the summer before signing the extension, it wouldn't affect his salary this year or next.
His salary WILL hamstring us for the rest of his career. So we better hope he keeps playing at an elite level deserving of the highest salary in the league. He's probably underperforming that right now, tbh, but not by all that much.
Yes. Was just in retrospect/for the sake of argument ...
I'm not sure what you are saying ... the amount Steph gets paid for this year and the following two are already set (contracts can't get renegotiated in the NBA). The only thing that's in play is contracts for the 2027-2028 season and beyond. Chances are, Steph won't be making $50 mil in his next contract, regardless. If I can do math, that would be his age 39 season.
And that assumes Steph will play beyond his current contract. If his knees continue to be problematic, two more years (or even one more, worst case) might be all he wants. He can go play golf or whatever else his heart desires.