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From Gui Santos:

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Não tem jeito… não importa quantas vezes vc já se despediu da sua família, toda despedida fica aquele sentimento de não querer ir, mas aí vc lembra que seu sonho tbm é o deles 🤷🏻‍♂️❤️

SCW ✌🏼🔵🟡

translation:

There's no way... no matter how many times you've said goodbye to your family, every goodbye is that feeling of not wanting to go, but then you remember that your dream is also theirs 🤷🏻‍♂️❤️

https://twitter.com/guisantos_4/status/1579875794221903883?s=20&t=t1TSVchwX1OHvZXTaqb-yQ

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Oct 11, 2022·edited Oct 11, 2022

I'm kind of getting irritated that all these 19-year old kids are more mature and better able to express themselves than I was at 50.

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😂

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SC should be fun to watch this season

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How Steph Curry BROKE The NBA | BBallBreakdown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFW3jJgjNcY

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Nice to focus on the joy for a few moments.

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Kenny Smith weighs in: "That behavior is uncommon in normal society, without question," two-time NBA champion Kenny Smith told TMZ Sports. "However, that behavior happens a lot in sports because of the physicality, the adrenaline, and all those things."

"I thought it was going to be worse when I saw the video. I was like, 'Oh, they just got into a scuffle,'" Smith continued, adding that he thinks Green will be fined for the punch.

Smith, who now works as an analyst on TNT’s "Inside the NBA," said that he does not think Poole and Green will have any issues playing together after the altercation.

"I won two championships with like five guys who fought," Smith told TMZ.

Link: https://www.foxnews.com/sports/nba-champ-downplays-warriors-draymond-green-punch.amp

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I'll be honest, this was kind of my reaction too. I mean, it looks bad, certainly, but it was a single punch. The sense I get from Kerr is that what he's really mad about is that it got leaked which makes it much harder to repair the damage.

Having played sports (as I know lots of us here have) I know that stuff like this happens. Have I ever come even close to throwing a punch? No. But I've definitely seen it happen, and those guys have continued to play together afterwards, and often have strong bonds. It just makes it so much harder when you have video because it keeps you stuck in that moment over and over.

I do think it's interesting how very few other NBA players have come out and commented on it. I think frankly most of them just don't really care or really think it's that big of a deal at all.

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Given how easy it seems for former players to crap on current players, the fact that it hasn't happened at all (unless I missed something) says something.

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I wonder how many NBA players feel basically like Lillard did:

https://twitter.com/highkin/status/1578843638620037120

Is this the standard view or is this the "Lillard is friends with Draymond" view?

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My completely uninformed opinion is that this is likely the standard view, or close unto it. As I've also said elsewhere, Draymond was raised in Saginaw and Poole was raised in Milwaukee. I seriously doubt this is the first punch Draymond has thrown and with the mouth on Poole is highly unlikely the first punch he's been on the receiving end of.

Does this justify it? Absolutely not. But context and upbringing do matter in understanding the situation.

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Exactly. We can understand while also being disappointed, angry, etc. This is a huge emotional maturity skill.

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> Smith, who now works as an analyst on TNT’s "Inside the NBA," said that he does not think Poole and Green will have any issues playing together after the altercation.

> "I won two championships with like five guys who fought," Smith told TMZ.

I think this was likely pre-video, we are in much murkier waters now though.

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Oct 11, 2022·edited Oct 11, 2022

He literally says he thought it was going to be worse when he saw the video.

I think it's not uncommon for those older guys who say the league isn't tough anymore, who are really talking about fighting. Times have changed.

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Oct 11, 2022·edited Oct 11, 2022

> He literally says he thought it was going to be worse when he saw the video.

Unfortunately for the Warriors, Kenny Smith is not the only opinion that influences this.

EDIT: Oh I see, vague wording by me, sorry. I meant the outcome that Smith described was likely to occur before the video came out and now post-video coming out that outcome might not be as likely. Not that Smith's comments were likely made before the video came out.

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If that video never came out I doubt we'd still be talking about this.

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This needs to be stickied at the top of every Warrior and sports discussion board, and given a million likes.

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deletedOct 11, 2022·edited Oct 11, 2022
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I don't know. In Moody's press conference he said "That is something between him and JP but me personally I'm cool with him (Draymond)". Made me wonder how many Warrior players feel that way. I think part of the "Draymond is going to have to prove it to us" message from the team could just be them sending Poole the message that they support him rather than a loss of trust in Draymond.

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Unified front while he makes big contract decisions

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Yeah that is the other factor in this situation, the Poole contract extension talks. I believe they all probably support Poole regardless, but even if they did not it is in their best interest to project that they do.

Who knows how that has affected things. Pre-video dropping, Myers, Kerr, Curry, and Iguodala all went up to the podium (or Twitter in Iguodala's case) and refuted the Haynes report publicly. I expect all of them felt tha way but are they that forceful publicly in their support of Poole if extension talks weren't heating up?

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Who said they lost trust in Dray?

If no one wants to work with him I would think a trade would be imminent.

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author

Pretty much every player quoted says Dray has to rebuild team trust, most recently Looney.

https://twitter.com/anthonyVslater/status/1579321593574363136?s=20&t=4E_oag7tJ9DSFWpKcEK0VA

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I absolutely believe that this is true, but I also absolutely believe that each and every player has had a good talking to about what they should and should not say about it publicly. It would be a really bad look if they were just like "eh, a punch? no big deal." Well, I suppose that's what they said before the video came out, but it's harder to do so when everyone can see it.

I'm sure Draymond does need to rebuild trust, but at the end of the day each and every one of the coaching staff and players understand that the team is better with Draymond than without him. I'm curious if deep down they are more upset that he threw a punch or that he brought all thus unwanted drama to the team when they're trying to kick of their title defense.

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Oct 11, 2022·edited Oct 11, 2022

Guess who's back?

@KeithSmithNBA

The Philadelphia 76ers have signed Patrick McCaw to a training camp contract, a league source tells @spotrac

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The real slim shady?

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The McCaw + McClung backcourt is ready to wreak havoc on the league!

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McKinnie and McAdoo are next.

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Oct 11, 2022·edited Oct 11, 2022

Oh look, a game tonight. I’m sick (non-Covid cold that is currently kicking my ass) so don’t know if I will stay up to watch this one, but will be nice to have more actual basketball to talk about.

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Be well. Dubs gotta win it for ya now.

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You and the Mrs both. This last front must have carried her germs from Columbia down the I 70 and got you infected

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It’s definitely getting around. My son brought it back from school. He’s fine now and my wife and I are takin it on the chin.

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Latest Dubs Talk with a pre-incident Myers interview.

https://overcast.fm/+nwdzcQ9Lg

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What level decibel of booing do we think Dray will receive on ring night? And what will JPs reaction be? Will JP quiet the crowd or look away and shrug…hmm

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JP ought to speak to Draymond and to the press. Frankly, JP has the power to make this issue go away for Draymond and for the team. That he hasn't yet (as far as we know) may be a reflection of the (IMO, bad) advice he's getting, a measure of the anger he feels about the punch or the (IMO, false) belief that Draymond needs to suffer to truly change/repent.

To me, holding onto the anger keeps oneself in the position of victim, while reaching out shows one's power. Allowing Draymond to "save face" by JP accepting his own role in the psychodrama (and I don't mean "psycho" drama) moves everything forward in a more positive direction.

Just a note on "psychodrama" from my own life. When my kids (now in their 30s) were little, they would play "damsel in distress" and "black knight" and I would play the "white knight" swooping in to restore peace and order. Only after a little assistance from my wife and time, did I realize that the "damsel in distress" was initiating warfare out of my sight and the "black knight" was not in need of correction, and the damsel not in need of saving. BTW, they are best friends now.

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JP ought to do what JP wants. I'd guess that the most important thing he can do right now is focus on his life changing 9 figure contract extension which can only be signed in the next 6 days. He doesn't have to sign for what the Warriors are offering, that's up to him, but he ought to be focused on making the right call for himself on that important decision far more than any of this other distraction.

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I'm sympathetic to the notion that adults should speak for and stand for themselves. Since I don't know Jordan, and I doubt that he is reading deep in the comments to DubNation for clues on what to do, my "ought" is really a more general statement about what I believe would lead to an optimal solution of "The Draymond Situation" from the perspective of JP, Draymond and the team as a whole.

As for your comment that JP's "most important thing" right now is focus on a potential deal, I don't agree. His agent is no doubt doing most of the focusing. JP knows what the market is and perspectives on his value. I can't imagine that he is running hundreds of possible scenarios through his mind, or talking extensively with the brain trust of players that he knows. I take a very "John Donne" view of a person's identity ("no man is an island"). If JP demonstrated leadership and helped resolve the "Draymond Situation", it's highly unlikely that Warriors' management would think less of him and offer him less money [not that they are considering that at all in JP's deal].

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Mild, mid to none? There will be some spattering for sure but unless there's a mob mentality I don't expect it to me excessive.

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I'd rather focus on the ring ceremony. That was a long year. I can cheer for the team and still be pissed at Draymond. I just dont need to take away from the celebration.

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I really hope we stop this BS by then… let them actually handle it themselves, like adults.

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That's assuming Draymond is back on ring night of course.

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Oct 11, 2022Liked by punk basketball, Daniel Hardee

I begin by apologizing in advance to those who may feel offended by my stance. I have been following the Warriors almost since 2010, so I am not a lifetime Warrior fan like most of you are. My fascination with Warriors started with Steph and got really cemented with the Splash brothers. Like you, I have watched this team blossom into an all-time great unit with pride, love, and belonging. I have never been seen the team play physically, and I have never been to California, and to the US only a couple of times. Yet, I can perhaps rattle NBA trivia with the best of you, and can share the most memorable moments over the course of the last decade as I have watched almost all the games available- despite time zone differences, despite work hours, despite other things.

Why do I add this before my small observation? Because I may not understand the cultural nuances enough to make a meaningful or relevant point.

Like all of you, I was shocked and heartbroken to see the punching incident. It filled me with grief and trepidation about this team and the two protagonists in this story. I can understand the anger at Draymond and the concern for Poole. I can even understand how most of you have zero tolerance for violence of any kind. Don’t get me wrong, what Draymond did was completely wrong, whatever the provocation, if any! He deserves whatever punsihment that he may have to face within the parameters set by the team. He must seek out apologies from Jordan and the team for having let them down. Only then can he join the team again.

Having said that I am shocked at the reaction of the Warriors fans. I do not know which world you live in, but out here where I live altercations and even intimidating ones are part of everyday lives. People, grown-up people, can fight. There are personal reasons, medical rationales, hormonal challenges, stress-induced ones, etc. The reasons don’t make the physical alterations right. But they do make them happen. What will make it wrong is if the aggressor is not punished for THAT action. What will make it wrong is if the aggressor does not apologize sincerely and change his/ her ways. But we cannot pretend that such fights do not happen.

And if they happen, we can take umbrage with the aggressor and punish him. But we cannot question all that he has done prior to that event. No one is all good. No one can be. Draymond has done much for the Warriors. He has often been foolish, but we have loved him more than we have been mad at him. And yet I see largely everyone willing to kick Draymond under the bus, reviling his character completely and forgeting his past contributions. I am no Draymond fan but I know what he has brought to this team. He is flawed and deserves punishment, but not sanctimonious hate.

To end my rambling, I quote my favorite leader. Mahatma Gandhi, whom a few of you may have heard of, said, “ The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.”

Love. Apologies again for this long acrimonious take.

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Great comment. Thanks for sharing a different perspective than some other folks here may have.

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I think there are definitely some deeper US cultural aspects at play here, especially with the general crowd that tends to hang out on this forum.

****Broad generalizations incoming that don't necessarily apply to each person individually****

For a very long time the US very much had a permissive culture when it came to bad behavior by public figures. We turned a blind eye to sexual harassment/assault, drug abuse, violence, etc. Sometimes we'd complain that "celebrities can get away with anything" and then continue to buy their jerseys, watch their movies, vote for them, etc.

With social media, and especially in a post-#metoo world, we have essentially moved from a permissive culture to a condemnation culture. We want to publicly hold every person accountable for all of their bad actions. Any past or current comment, action, inaction, or accusation which is seen as racist, bigoted, intolerant, sexist, violent, etc. we come down hard against them, often deeming that the only appropriate response is to toss them out from the public eye completely. The judgments of the masses are often harsh and swift. Rather than previously when we were essentially completely permissive, we've swung completely to the other end of the spectrum where we often seem to demand perfection. Some types of flaws are okay, certainly, but for others there is essentially zero tolerance.

I hope that our next step is moving to an accountability culture, where people are allowed to take responsibility for and learn from their mistakes, and the masses are able to forgive those individuals and embrace and celebrate growth. One of the problems right now is that we collectively are suspicious of people who "say all the right things" because we are wary that they are simply being coached on what to say by a good PR team and are quick to label reparative behavior as performative. We need to find a way to allow people to acknowledge and grow from their mistakes without being jettisoned completely.

For Draymond, I don't know how to judge him, but frankly I don't think it's my job to. I have empathy for all parties involved, and hope that everyone gets the help that they need in this situation, whatever it may be. If the coaching staff and team decide that bringing Draymond back into the fold and forgiving him is the correct path, I accept and support that. If they feel that irreparable damage is done and he needs to be off the team, that will make me sad but I'll trust their judgment.

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S/o to dip and Trogdor for the two most nuanced takes I’ve seen about this incident and our culture at large. Well done.

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> And yet I see largely everyone willing to kick Draymond under the bus, reviling his character completely

I agree. It feels like revisionist history to act like the LeBron thing was part of some pattern of behavior that led to this, for instance. People are clearing Poole of any part of the scuffle because they think Draymond provoked him to shove him off...but LeBron provoking Draymond to shove him off is also on Draymond? Are we trying to be consistent or are people just shitting on Draymond from all angles knowing it is difficult to defend someone who everyone is against?

The only incident I see that is directly relevant to this one is the bar fight, where Draymond escalated it to physical violence. What is shocking about this ordeal is just how different it is from almost everything else we've ever seen from Draymond besides that bar fight, framing it as part of a pattern of behavior from him and grouping this with yelling at KD is just not something I agree with.

Feel like there should be more "this was a mistake" from the fanbase rather than "this is what Draymond is at his core". Doesn't mean those people can't want Draymond off the team for it, but it feels like they are throwing him under the bus like you said, to me anyway.

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Seems like a lot of "I don't like the guy" to "Ah-HA! See, see I was right all along.

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Oct 11, 2022·edited Oct 11, 2022

I don't hate Draymond, and I doubt that many on this board do.

But, I would say I am sick of the continual transgressions ... we're nearing double-digits, and that doesn't even count the referee abuse (which up till recently was essentially every play he was involved in). If it was an isolated incident, then I'm sure everyone would be much more forgiving.

Most of us would rather not have angry people in our life. Draymond isn't really 'in our life', but in a lesser sense he is. It's tiresome.

And, when he crosses the line to where he could hurt someone (Lebron, Adams, now Poole) and shows that he's really dangerous, and perhaps can't change, then it's time to consider whether he belongs on the team.

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Fights are common everywhere. That’s not IMHO why fans are upset. Rather it’s because we feel betrayed. Most of us took Draymond’s side after he swiped at Bron’s nuts, after he kicked Stephen Adams and after the Jalen Brown incident last finals.

I recall one fan even made a video of Draymond kicking out his leg when he shoots to show that the Adams kick was not intentional.

We as fans have been invested in sticking up for Draymond even when most of the planet probably feels more like Celtics fans who chanted f you Draymond. So when Draymond sucker punched Poole, he broke the code and let us down. As Stephen Jackson said, “big homie never punches little homie.”

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I don't have too much to add to this conversation... I have loved watching Draymond play, but he plays so close to the edge, and here, in one sudden impulse, he stepped way over the line. In one way we are all lucky that this punch didn't have a Kermit Washington , Rudy Tomjanovich effect.

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Fights are common everywhere in the world. I am a Zulu man so I grew up fighting. Fighting is in my DNA. My forefathers went toe to toe with the British in the Anglo-Zulu war in 1879, winning the first battle of Isandlwana with nothing but spears. I am of the great Kings such as Shaka Zulu kaSenzangakhona, King Cetshwayo kaMpande who led the Zulu forces and was eventually captured and taken to England. He met Queen Victoria and she immediately knew she was in the company of a King and a Warrior. Stick fighting is a source of pride where I'm from. I've also witnessed gruesome violence and oppression sponsored by a government.

That being said, I hate violence. Especially when it's unwarranted. That was unwarranted. Steph said as much. It made me sad and angry. I won't pretend to know these guys but JP looks like a good guy. I love how he hyped up Wiggs in the Finals. There is also something to be said about why we love a certain team. For me the character of these guys has been a thing to marvel at. In the NBA you get to see more of a player than you do in say, football (The one you play with your feet). I feel for my favourite Warrior in Looney, who has a kid who's looked up to him for years get punched by someone he is very close to. Every time Draymond spoke of Looney you'd just hear how close they are. So I don't think people are now suddenly forgetting what he's done but we feel differently about things. I was pissed off when he did that interview with KD, who happens to be my favourite player. I couldn't understand how you could do such a thing to your team with a guy that left. He had such a good start to the season and that gaffe was quickly forgotten.

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Your points are well noted and well articulated. I would say though that perhaps you overexaggerate the reaction of Warrior fans, at least the ones on this site. I personally do not see outright vilification of Dray here, just very disappointed fans expressing their frustrations on a fan site, perhaps a bit vehemently at times. That's about it. I don't think anyone is taking anything away from what Draymond Green has accomplished as a Warrior, I'm quite sure. When his story is written, he will go down as among the greatest Golden State Warrior, of that I doubt there is any disagreement.

All that being said, I also think that quoting Gandhi and espousing forgiveness while talking about the "sanctimonious hate" of others is perhaps a tad, um, sanctimonious?

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Absolutely, i may have come off as more than a tad sanctimonious. No question. But I still believe that draymond deserves punishment and post that ( and seeking forgiveness) like everyone who serves out their due punishment needs to be accepted back. He deserves our vitriol, but he has also done enough good for the team for us to say, once the punishments are over, ... Come back... Change yourself for the better... You deserve that chance. The reason I make this point is once so many of us take him apart there are also many who want him traded to other teams! I feel that we must go one step at a time. That's all.

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I was responding more to the perceived homogeneity of opinion around Draymond Green, and then the flashing of some "minority" cred to rebut that apparent majority opinion. I speak here as an outsider myself if that needs to be said.

I think there are a variety of reactions and opinions around this issue, much as there is a variety of opinions on generally most things on this site. In fact, as I'm slowly learning, the posters on this site seem to be quite diverse as well from all sorts of background and origins. Some here want him traded, others believe he is essential for another championship run, others believe the focus should be on JP, etc. Having an opinion does not equate to not forgiving.

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I have read multiple comments on here saying that Draymond needs to be off the Warriors team. And this is the only place where I read any comments.

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People fight even here in Italy, and I've been involved in several altercations in my life on a playground. But:

1) this is NBA,not a playground in the hood

2) it was a sucker punch, not a real altercations.

So the reactions of fans are justified, from my point of view

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Cool take. I believe JP can forgive this, because he is essentially doing that for himself. But forgiveness does not necessarily equal regained trust or no consequences. And that’s where Dray may find himself challenged over the coming season or two.

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Oct 11, 2022·edited Oct 11, 2022

Nah, friend. People fight here too, but that was a pretty sudden escalation and almost a sucker punch. I have long defended Draymond - his finals ejection was all LeBron being an ass, and Durant was all bitching about not getting the ball in the last second of a game. But this wasn’t an opponent in the heat of battle, or contextual fight that should have stayed private. This was being a bad teammate and a mean guy. It also popped our championship bubble of one big happy family.

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Oct 11, 2022·edited Oct 11, 2022

I /am/ a Draymond fan, and I'm appalled by what he did and by the team's initial response. I have not seen fans denying that he's been huge for the Ws; most of us are grateful for his part in the dynasty. But that doesn't justify this behavior. The fact that some are advocating suspension or even cutting ties with him just goes to show how far over the line he was on this one. I don't think that's throwing him under the bus. But what the team has done with regard to his past blow ups has enabled his out-of-control behavior, and here we are. They need to impose some real consequences.

Also, not sure what world you live in where people have physical fights, apparently on a regular basis. No, that does NOT happen in my world. I'm in my 60s and don't remember ever being in a workplace where something like this happened. I know that tragically, it's out there for some.

But even if one is accepting of the fact that people sometimes fight, this was NOT a fight -- not when Dray was the clear aggressor all the way and was the only one who threw a punch. That's called an attack. Poole wanted no part of a fight with Green, who is not only grown man strong but some 40 pounds heavier and 2-3 inches taller than him. That Green hit him with a very aggressive, violent strike in the head, with Poole's hands down around his waist? Can't be called a fight when one guy doesn't know that they're having a fight and clearly isn't prepared to defend himself.

I hope Poole will forgive. But that is not the same as being able to play on the same team as Green. I think they /will/ play together. I'm just saying that forgiveness doesn't mean staying with an abusive person who has harmed you, even if they apologize.

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Just being an athlete in college we had to deal with multiple dust ups after practice (in a non-contact sport). The nature of sport is to push people to expand their mental and physical boundaries. That means there is constantly an edge of discomfort as you push yourself, and sometimes people crack. Since the sports world is primarily physical those cracks often express themselves in a physical way.

Teams will always have to deal with physical conflicts at some level as long as they continue to push athletes to progress, and they are generally adept at doing so.

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Well, in that case you are privileged and lucky. Physical aggression is a part of our world. Fights are quite common. People actually hurt others in far worse ways that that. That does not make it right. But makes it a fact that we must live with. To pretend otherwise is foolish and absolutely a lie. In ANY sports fights between team-mates are not uncommon. However, as you rightly pointed out... this was not really a fight. More of intimidation and bullying. Hence this talk of punishment (if both had fought we would have discussed it otherwise). But all the great philosophies and religions and institutions talk of forgiveness. And also some perspective, this was a bullying tactic. We punish and try to correct bullies (unless they have done something unspeakable). This was bad, saddening... but not unspeakable. So yeah, you are right from where you stand. I have my own, third-world views.

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I don't think anyone is denying that fights happen in this world. Like you say, very foolish on a macro level. A lot of things happen in the world and each culture decides which actions are socially acceptable and which are not. At this level (team sport), we (the organizations, league, fans) get to respond to what happens and exercise the influence we have on what is acceptable behavior within our culture. Relatively speaking, violence between teammates is pretty uncommon (qualitative, no data to back it up). Why? Probably because it doesn't benefit anyone in that culture. Does it help the team perform better? Is it something the fans enjoy? Does it make the organization and league more money? IMO, the answer to all those questions is more or less 'no'.

Focusing just on this Dray-Poole incident, I would say most parties are reacting normally. The organization is wavering a little. They're dealing with a lot in a time sensitive situation. The smart decision they've made is to separate the problem from the team. In the meantime, they're probably evaluating all their options and will have to decide what is best for the team long term. I think there are a wide range of options on the table given the context of the situation. They may determine that it won't affect the team's performance that much, all parties will be sincerely forgiven, and move on after a short suspension. Or, they may determine that the chemistry is beyond acceptable repair and a trade is available that is a better for the team in the long run. We shall see.

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What you haven’t heard of cancel culture? It’s a core tenet of the religion of online atheism. If a person has done one bad thing according to your current values, it invalidates every part of their lives and you can’t support or appreciate any of their other works.

Followed to its conclusion, this line of thinking means that there are actually no people on the planet worthy of appreciation, because nobody is perfect, so all we have left is hate.

Twitter is considered the highest art of this culture currently, but we here in California try our best to live up to its ideals.

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Not to turn this into a needlessly political debate, but I would argue that cancel culture, especially in the US, goes back a lot farther than today's Twitter age. The only thing that has changed is who is getting canceled and what they are getting canceled for. When actors and artists and academics were getting blacklisted for purportedly communist sympathies, no one called it cancel culture but it was the same thing in essence. Ditto for civil rights leaders and activists. The frequency and visibility of the cancellations may have increased with the advent of modern technology but trying to erase people from public discourse because of their views and their actions is a long-standing pillar of American history. Not disagreeing that this type of thinking is corrosive but it's hardly new.

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Are you saying that McCarthyism has essentially taken over our country under a new guise despite his name and actions being widely despised in almost every history book? Sounds like we have an education issue.

Or is it just that politics has a trendy cycle like music, and the political movements and popular thinking of the 1930’s-50’s have become popular again?

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All I'm saying is that what is being called a recent trend is in fact a part of the fabric of our culture and history in this country. It's not new for people in America to be shut out of public discourse because of unpopular views and I expect that phenomena to continue even as the content of what is acceptable to mainstream society shifts over time. I expect that people will be getting "canceled" 30 years in the future for stances on issues that seem pretty foreign to us right now. The only thing that has changed over time is the reason for cancellation. Not making a comment either way on whether it's good or bad for our society but it's not a new concept either way.

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> we here in California

*some* key parts ;)

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https://twitter.com/KerithBurke/status/1579246713717420032

Didn't see this posted. JP and JTA catching up before the game.

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I'm glad that JTA will receive his ring alongside his former teammates next week.

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It was only a preseason game, but JTA made it look like the Ws will miss him.

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I watched the highlights. Poole was superb, but I'm still feeling sad about things.

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Like climate change and rise pf fascism sad or just a millionaire punching a more likable millionaire sad?

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I understand that. Warriors have been my therapy for the past decade. Don’t want anything to taint that.

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Oct 11, 2022·edited Oct 11, 2022

Like used-to-watch-the-Warriors-as-a-refuge-from-the-worries-of-the-real-world-but-that-is-no-longer-quite-the-case-since-a-certain-someone-went-and-threw-a-punch sad.

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I wondered where all the dashes went.

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L-O-L

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Oct 10, 2022Liked by Daniel Hardee

Regarding this summer:

After this last week, I think the Loon re-signing should pretty much get Myers an A+ for the summer.

Looney has earned his entire salary this year by what he's doing to keep the Draymond crap from spiraling out of control. And the season hasn't even started yet.

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If PBJ fulfills the promise he's showing, and DDV is solid, that's A+ for sure. An extension for JP before camp ends would seal the deal.

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I enjoyed a Poole to Looney to relocating Wiggins open three. I don’t remember much Wiggins relocating in past years. Could there be another level to the Wiggins Warriors adaptation coming this year?

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I was thinking that Wiggins looks like he's picking up right where he left off. He looks like he's playing loose and with confidence that he didn't have at the beginning of last season.

I think an aggressive, confident, Wiggins with that glow that smile and championship glow is going to take the league by storm this year.

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I got frustrated every time the youngsters had the ball, stopped the action, and looked for a reset pass out to the top. They've got to learn what to do and be more aggressive. It's preseason and it's ok that they're still learning, but if they are still doing that frequently after game 40 or so, I doubt they'll be playoff ready.

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You can see JK working on it. There are sometimes he'll almost immediately pass off when he receives the ball, and other times he'll hold and then will drive, or end up stalling. Even his passes need some work, though. I remember there was one possession where it went ball handler (JP) --> Loon --> JK in the low post near the basket, where he immediately dumped it back to Poole on the perimeter. I would've liked to see him take it and go strong to the basket, but the immediate pass off to a semi-open Poole was a good 2nd option. In the past, he would've held, collecting himself, allowing the defense to rotate towards him, then tried to drive to the basket just to meet a wall of defenders and T/O or pray for a foul.

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Yeah… he’s opening up new levels in his mind. Needs reps.

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Kerr's offense takes a while to fit into for players who aren't intuitively set up for it (i.e. DDV). As long as they are worked in gradually and put in the work, I can see all the youngsters but PBJ and RR being ready for playoff minutes. Caveat: I didn't see this game.

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Actually I think DDV will be pretty well set up based on his time in Milwaukee and Villanova. Wouldn’t be surprised if he has it pretty figured out 10-15 games in

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I wrote those words poorly. I agree completely, and meant that DDV *is* intuitively set up for it.

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Yeah, DDV is a vet. He'll get it quick.

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I think DDV, it a great fit, but he’s pretty much the same age and years in the league as Oubre when he arrived. Getting it quick shouldn’t be assumed.

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He's at a completely different point in his career tho...

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I think he has really arrived. It's starting to look stephortless for him. Last year was his coming out party but I think he takes the step to stardom this year. It's going to be hard to keep this guy coming off the bench after this season.

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The simple answer is don’t bring him off the bench. Put Draymond on the bench.

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That would hurt a lot on the defensive side.

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Draymond initiating the offense and quarterbacking the D with the second unit could be interesting and might help their D improve faster. The first unit doesn’t need him as much since they can communicate effectively already.

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Oct 11, 2022·edited Oct 11, 2022

A fair argument. In return, I'd offer that without Draymond this past year, our first-unit defense did NOT look nearly as effective. It wasn't until he came back, and especially in the playoffs, that the first unit really locked in defensively. Of course, Klay was still finding his way back too so there's that. Wiggs, Steph, and Loon were very good on the defensive side. But Draymond was the key.

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Yep.

Kerr marries Steph & Dray minutes for a number of reasons.

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Part of the magic of Poole is that he can fill in for either Klay or Steph as a starter. If you assume that Steph and Klay both play 65 games this year and that their rest is staggered, that means Poole would start 34 games. He could very well play more minutes than either of them if he plays 30 minutes a night.

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The other nice part about Poole is that he is highly effective playing with Steph.

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Yeah, I can’t see the FO paying a guy $30M/year (assuming that happens) to come off the bench

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Arrived is a relative term. PatBev didn't play last night. We know that JP can do damage against poor perimeter defenders and bigs which he did a lot last night. But one of his big issues in the playoffs was when defenders started bumping him on the perimeter and getting physical. I remember DEN or MEM switching a larger wing onto him to guard him more physically during the playoffs which took his offense out of the game. PatBev is a great perimeter defender who does that kind of thing and would've been a great test for him. Alas, he didn't play, so I'd still like to see JP perform against that kind of D.

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It's very much a relative term, and actually doesn't make much sense as far as JP3 is concerned. Has he "arrived" as a legitimate NBA starter? Absolutely. He'd be an upgrade at the 1 or 2 for at least 20 NBA teams. Has he arrived as an all-star? Not yet, but in the right environment that isn't out of the question. The obvious thing with JP3 is that he's got a ton of innate, natural talent and he's going to keep getting better because he works his a** off. JP3 (and maybe Moody and Wiggins) is the only Dub who is obviously going to keep getting better. Could easily see him being a 25 ppg, high efficiency guy by the time he's 25, 26. Those guys are hard to find, and you don't let them go if you have them.

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Oct 10, 2022·edited Oct 10, 2022

Ditto. When JP did his little curly cue, both guys under the basket were just looking at him.

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Jordan just has so much creativity. The passes to Looney & Steph, the imagination for the behind the back floater (with recognition that he's got another step to balance himself in the lane)... he's here.

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I’m really starting to consider the idea of an offense first attack lineup: Steph, Poole, Klay, Wiggins, Looney.

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Especially if Klay can get back to defending like he used to. Then the D would be solid except for JP.

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Net rating of 48.8 in 44 minutes last year; while Klay was struggling because they refused to play him more in that lineup and kept putting him in lineups as the creator. I was at the game where they finally busted out that lineup and it was glorious spacing to behold plus much stronger D than expected. They actually started out with Moody in place of Wiggins and he was a sieve on D. Once they replaced Moody with Wiggins it was glorious.

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That was a bad a$$ lineup last regular season and Wiggins might be moving better off ball and rebounding better this year so YES please. Can I call that the cow bell lineup because we need more of it!

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I'd be concerned with stamina with this group. That's a group that constantly has to defend players larger and bigger than themselves, and would wear down over the course of a game.

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Plus lineups where Stephen Curry is the third-best defender do not promise a great DRTG.

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I dunno, if Klay is your second-worst defender you're probably doing OK on that end. And offensively, you've probably got the other team outclassed completely.

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That's what I'm thinking. I also think now is the time for at least imagining a Draymond-free lineup.

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You got that plus part right. The plus minus of that lineup last year was massive.

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It projects to be a deadly regular season lineup

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Did you miss The Playoffs of Steph Defense(tm)?

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Kuminga should attack the basket with jumpstops/off two feet.

Wiseman drop coverage is not conducive to Warriors wins.

PBJ looks great.

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PBJ looks great *on offense* I watched him ball watch on defense a few times and died a little bit inside each time

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Yep. The speed of an NBA game is hard to adjust to on defense, and even a coach's son will get caught flatfooted trying to figure out what to do in their rookie year. We should expect to see a lot more of this. Hopefully the coaches will drill into him the correct defensive rotations and as he learns them, he'll probably go down to the G-league to learn them in a slower paced environment. Then, we'll see if he can make the leap ala JP back to the bigs.

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People were saying the same things about Poole in his second year (and Poole got to play a lot more than JK in his rookie year so he had more NBA minutes going into his second year. In the middle of Pooles second year he got sent down to the G league to work on stuff. Sent down. Now people are talking about Poole being more valuable to the team than Draymond Green (and they were doing it before the recent incident between them).

Look I see the same struggles for Kuminga. I even get that many a seemingly talented player just doesn't "get it" (Oubre comes to mind) and will never be a great player. However there is a level of patience required to find out and we have come nowhere near the end of the required development period for a 20 yr old to be writing JK off, now or the end of the season (lets at least see what he looks like at the end of the season). Just on the Warriors we have a couple guys who we needed to be patient for and it was worth it. Poole. Wiggins needed patience. Even Loon to some extent, look how good he is now at 26 compared to 22.

I don't know how the Warriors are going to navigate the cap or the transition from the old guard to the young guns (as far as winning championships now, I am in the camp that the old guard is the key) but I do know that if you put all that aside, it will be a while, maybe even up to 3 or 4 seasons, until we know what guys like JK, JW, PBJ, even Moody will really be able to contribute.

tldr:

https://imgflip.com/i/2ckikr

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Yeah we heard about Poole’s hard work in the off-season goomg into year two but it really didn’t show up until the G-League stint (or one game before it) and then its been obvious ever since.

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I only got to see the highlights from the Lakers game but in the second Japan game, I was impressed as hell with Kuminga's on-ball D. He was a serious problem at times.

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