Part 1: Steve Kerr on Steph Curry, Michael Jordan, Phil Jackson and strategically throwing psycho tantrums

Taking and fearing the big shot

Table of Contents

• Fearing the big shot

• Thanking Steph and staying current as the league changes

• On Phil Jackson

• Playing with Michael Jordan

• Strategically throwing a psycho tantrum

• More on taking the last shot

• The Paris Olympics and Steph Curry

Transcripts of selected exchanges

Fearing the big shot

Steve Kerr

It's one of the reasons I love Steph Curry so much is that he never has that problem. You know, he lets it rip every time and never thinks about repercussions. And I spent way too much time doing that.

Shane Battier

Can you teach that? I mean, we we talk about just mindset a lot. Like, is that just something you develop along the way? Can you teach that? Can you instill that into people? Or is that is that just something you're born with or you don't?

Steve Kerr

I think a little of each. I think you're definitely born with it. Steph's born with it. Michael Jordan was born with it. Kevin Durant was born with it. But you're talking about three of the greatest players of all time, too. You know, maybe there's just such a level of confidence with those guys that it just came naturally. But I do think there's things you can do. You know, I read a great book recommended by Phil Jackson called The Inner Game of Tennis. And it was, it became my Bible in the NBA. Like, I would read it every year. And it's a book about the mind-body connection and about how to let yourself go and kind of this topic that we're discussing right now. And I give it to my players now, today, and with the Warriors guys who I think could use it. And it just teaches you techniques that you can use to try to get out of your own way

…

Steve Kerr

Honestly, joy was a value of mine. It's just I had to figure out how to reconcile joy and competitiveness. And I think that's one of the tricks is understanding that all these things can blend together. And I always was a very joyful person. I just, you know, I or at least I recognized how powerful joy was. You know, I always played my best when I was, When I was out there flowing and having a great time and laughing with my teammates. But what made it really click with the Warriors is that there's never been an athlete who embodies joy more than Steph Curry. Our values really aligned right from day one. And I think that helped us kind of set a culture for the whole group.

Thanking Steph and staying current as the league changes

Alex Smith

You've been the Warriors coach now, what, eleven years? Yeah. And I think about, you know, obviously, you've earned this right, but like, what a challenge that is now, right? Like 11 years in. How do I stay fresh? Right. Like, how do I stay current? Steph's been hearing my stuff for 11 years, right? Like, what, how can I be new and different? And certainly, there's obviously new pieces in the puzzle. But how do you view that challenge now? I think it's fascinating. And not many coaches get this opportunity, right? Like to be this far in with one team in one roster and like continuing obviously to evolve.

Steve Kerr

I mean, first of all, I'm well aware that the reason I'm still here is because Steph Curry is still here, you know? I mean, it's, and I'm not being, you know, modest. I'm just telling the truth. Like, you know, Greg Popovich is one of my best friends. Mentors, and every time we sit down to dinner, he holds up his wine glass and he says, Here's to Tim Duncan, and everyone toasts Tim Duncan. And I love it because it's genuine, and he's basically telling us You know, the only reason I'm and we are all here is because, like, the lottery fell our way. We got Tim Duncan, other people didn't. And so that's how I feel about Steph. If I didn't have Steph, I would have been like every other NBA coach and lasted a few years and then gone somewhere else and coached somewhere else. So I'm incredibly lucky to have this partnership with Steph.

And he provides this stability and continuity with the organization that just makes everybody's job easier. But as it relates to keeping up with what's happening out there and evolving, the game is changing constantly. It's just amazing from year to year to see the differences. And I just think it's really important to collaborate with your staff and to encourage the young coaches to really bring a lot of ideas to the table. I really lean on my younger coaches.

One of the ways the league is so different now is that we're now a developmental league. You know, when Shane, when you came into the league, when I was in the league. We were already developed. You played for Coach K for four years. I played for Lute Olson for four years. We were ready.

And the other part that was different was the schedule was different. So, we'd have like three games and four nights. Then you'd have four days off. So, you'd have two great practices. Now, the schedule is basically you play every other day, all year long. We don't practice anymore. So we have to develop these nineteen-year-old kids who are coming into the league without much practice time. That has meant an entirely revamped kind of development program.

And frankly, I'm not great with, like, I'm an older coach. I, you know, I'm a disciple of Phil and Pop. And so I lean on the young guys to really install great development drills, decision-making stuff, things that I never did or knew how to teach. But the key is to figure that out and let the people who can do those things, let them do it and empower them. And I think that's how you progress.

On Phil Jackson

Alex Smith

You brought up mindfulness as a core of the Warriors. And that's certainly something I think that's gained popularity in kind of current day. But a lot of this I can't help but feel that goes back to what you, you know, Phil Jackson, right? Like he was, I think, one of the first guys. That I can ever remember kind of invoking, you know, meditation and talking about it and breathing. And I mean, these were this in hindsight, I think, at that time, this was kind of crazy, right? Like, here's this guy, this little bit of an Eastern influence and it's the NBA and Michael Jordan in these championships. And you had the coaches talking about some of these things that weren't mainstream at all. I'm just fascinated by this, right? Like that he was just so unique and so himself in an era when that wasn't really in vogue. And I think what you learned from him that you still take with you today.

Steve Kerr

I do, yeah. He was so authentic, so genuinely interested in Native American spirituality. He grew up in South Dakota near an Indian reservation. Our film room, where we would watch film every day, was adorned with Native American art and history. He referred to us as his tribe. So he would come out. There was at the Bulls facility, his office was upstairs. The gym was downstairs. We'd all be shooting around Pre-practice, he'd come out onto the balcony and bang his drum. And that was, yeah, and that was our signal to come up and watch tape. You know, when you're first there, you're like, man, is this guy for real? And it quickly becomes apparent that this is like how he lives his life.

You know, the first time you meditate with the Bulls back then, it's like the new guy always opens his eye, like, what's going on? Everybody else settles in, and the light, you know, light dims down, and the new guys are, you know, like, really? We're doing this? But he was ahead of his time for sure. And, um, But the key to all of it was it was authentic and genuine and powerful. He was so smart and so dialed into what makes a team go.

He's the only guy I've ever run into who built an offense based on a culture. The triangle offense was based on the fact that all five guys touched the ball on every possession. And his feeling was that's what connected the group. The ball moving connected the group, and that's why he wanted to run that offense. And I'd never heard of that before. I never made that connection before. I thought you just ran plays, but he was so advanced and brilliant, just an amazing coach.

Playing with Michael Jordan

Shane Battier

And talk about going to the Bulls… take us through your mindset of going to a championship contending team. You know, the first day of school is kind of the feeling I had when I went to Miami Heat. You know, I thought just like, I hope people like me here, you know, but to take us through that mindset.

Steve Kerr

Well, when I got there, it was right when Michael decided to go play baseball. So I was, I went there expecting to play with him and/or at least be on the team with him. And I was actually trying out with a non-guaranteed contract, just trying to keep my place in the league. Yeah. So it actually was to my benefit in some ways that he went because it opened up a bunch of playing time. It was bad for the rest of the Bulls and their fan base, but it was good for me. No, it was that's kind of where I re-established my career. It was my fifth year, and I was probably on my way out of the league. But, you know, to step in there and learn from Phil and play with Scottie Pippin and Horace Grant. Bill Cartwright, these champions, changed my whole career. And then, of course, Michael came back two years later and we started winning, you know, winning again. So what I learned was it's a lot easier to develop a role on a great team with great players than on an average team, you know, where everybody's just like kind of confused as to, you know, who's the man and all that stuff. The hierarchy in Chicago allowed me, and the offense allowed me to just plug right in.

Ravi Gupta

I grew up in Chicago, as you know, and so you know, I was a fan of yours as a kid. I remember that, you know, you hitting the shot in 97. I remember all this stuff I also remember in the parade, one, you gave this great speech afterwards, which was awesome about Michael not feeling confident in these kind of moments and wanting to call you, which is we should put in the show notes… But one of the things that Jordan said in the interview afterwards was like, tonight was the night Steve Kerr earned his wings or something. And I was just thinking about the standard that he had of like you have to hit the game winning shot in the NBA finals to earn that. Was it always like that with him, of like that level of standard in order to earn the respect? Because I know you'd had the some of the things beforehand, but I would love to hear about the standards on the Bulls.

Steve Kerr

Trust me, I was thinking the same thing when he said that. I'm in my ninth year and I just now earned my stripes. So but that was his way. Like he was not an easy teammate. He drove us so hard and he held everyone to such high standards and he literally drove people off the team.

His theory was: if you couldn't stand the heat and practice from him, then you weren't going to be able to stand the heat of the NBA Finals. So he drove us, and back then, you know, we practiced a lot, we scrimmaged a lot, so we had some battles, and you had to bring it every day because he brought it, and he set an incredible tone. And the beauty of it was, as difficult as it could be to be his teammate and to try to live up to all that, you just knew you were going to win because he was on your team. He was that good, that dominant. And you just had to bring your best self every day. And he set that tone.

Strategically throwing a psycho tantrum

Shane Battier

I have an apocryphal story about you. I need to confirm or deny. So we are connected by one of the greatest basketball minds of our time, Chip Engelland, who's a dear friend of both of ours. So Chip Engelland is a world-renowned shooting coach. He's now working with the Oklahoma City Thunder, and he's known as the guru if your shot is broken. And he fixed my shot twice. And he's the guy most responsible for me for having a 13-year NBA career from an individual skills standpoint. But more importantly, he helped me develop an NBA mindset.

And one of the stories he told me as a young NBA player was about you. And he said the squeaky wheel gets the oil in an NBA locker room. That's true. And so you cannot be the punching bag, and you have to let people know that you matter. And so he used you as an example on the great Bulls teams. Big egos, all right, up and down the line, all right. Sometimes they took you for granted. And so, in a very calculated way, once a year, all right, you'd be practicing and there'd be a foul and it wouldn't be called, and you would just go ballistic. And you would start kicking ball racks and throwing the Gatorade cooler around and swearing. And everyone's like, holy crap, this guy is psycho. You can't mess with him. And then you'd be cool, and then you'd be fine.

But like after that, after that episode, people just kind of treated you with kid gloves. They didn't want to set you, you know, you're the crazy white guy, all right? And that was Chip's story to me: that, like, you know, if you feel you're being taken granted for granted, all right, it's okay to throw a tantrum and get the oil and be the squeaky wheel 'cause that's how the NBA operates. So, I just want to know was that a Chip Engelland invention, or did that really happen?

Steve Kerr

It's true. It's true. My wife has an expression that she uses for me: beware the fury of a patient man. And she read it in a book. We're lying in bed one night, she's reading, and she goes, Oh my god, this is so you. And I said, What? She goes, Beware the fury of a patient man. And it was, and I think the book was about Arthur Ashe. So I think Arthur Ashe's wife read it and said it to Arthur Ashe.

And so I've always been pretty stoic on the court and pretty patient, but I do have a tipping point. And I can just lose my shit. I mean, you've seen me on the sidelines once or twice a year, break a clipboard or whatever. So, no. Yeah. So, true story, true story. But I don't even think I realized. Like that, I was gaining something from it. Like Chip told me later, he's like, you know, that's good that you do that. You got to let them know that you're there. And I was like, oh, okay. I was just snapping for the hell of it.

Shane Battier

Oh, well, I used it and it helped me. So thank you.

More on taking the last shot

Alex Smith

You mentioned the last shot, Ravi, and like taking the last shot. And I like I I'm really fascinated by this concept in sports. And in basketball, it's probably the most iconic, right? Like the buzzer beater. You know, in baseball, it's the bottom of the ninth, two outs, you know, bases loaded kind of thing. In football, the perspective is like as a quarterback, certainly the two minute drill, game on the line. Like, this is where you become kind of a legend.

And the idea of how do you operate in these moments, right? Like, this is a maxed out anxiety, maxed pressure. And you've been the guy taking these shots. You played with two of the, I mean, Michael Jordan is literally like the most iconic here, but Steph Curry, obviously, right there. Like, I and I was lucky enough, like, I've been with Patrick, and so much. I know both Steph and Patrick, and like they remind me so much of each other. And again, we go back to like your the joy of the moment, right? Those guys relished that moment.

Whereas I can remember being the guy on the bench. And when it was the end of the game, I'd be like, come on, defense, you know, bail me out. Come on, defense. You know, like, I don't want to go out there. I don't want to be out there. And so. And having been that guy, you know, here you've played and coached with two of the greatest ever. But like those guys, like there's a joy and gratefulness for the situation And also, I think they're just so comfortable with, like, this is me, and if I miss it, I miss it. Right. Like, I they're more comfortable with the miss than I was, right?

Like, I was terrified of it. And so I don't know if you could speak on that a little bit. I just think it's so interesting. And again, we love it watching it as a spectator, but being that guy is hard.

Steve Kerr

I never ever really felt comfortable in that spot. What I finally learned to do was to write FI on my shoe and just say fuck it and let it fly without, you know, but the whole key is like you just can't think about the Repercussion of the result. But it's easier said than done. And that's where mindfulness comes in: you know, putting yourself in the moment. Not allowing any distraction. And I think just the overall feeling of like going out there and just saying, I'm going for it. I'm going for it. But like you said, Steph and Michael, like they couldn't wait for that. They couldn't wait for that moment. Whereas, you know, you and I were, oh shit, here we go. And we had to find a way to allow our talent to flourish because we could both do it, obviously. I mean, you played forever, you had a great career. Number one pick. I mean, you knew how to throw the ball, and I could shoot, and you know, like we could do it, but I think it's a really common thing in the NBA. Like there's just a handful of players who really feel comfortable, and most of us do not.

Alex Smith

What do you do? I think about this too, as a coach. What do you think you can do and as a leader? Like when you're coaching guys that are in these positions, like I think about the head coach in football, right? Your kicker's getting ready to run out to try to make this big field goal, what do you say to him? What are the words? Do you tell a joke? Do you, you know, like you're drawing up the play? You know, for this big moment, whether it's Steph or any, or maybe another guy, right, that hasn't done it. Maybe it's a role player and Steph's decoying. Like, what? Is there anything you can do to try to help them get into that kind of a mindset?

Steve Kerr

Not so much in the moment. I think during the season. You know, when you're not in that moment, it's a better time to just convey: like, hey, I don't care who it is who gets the ball in this situation. We are letting it rip. You know, you let the players feel that during the regular season where it's like and you remind them that the greatest players on earth, you know, they basically make those shots less than 50% of the time, you know. And so you just have to remind them. That any time that moment comes, we're letting it rip.

The Paris Olympics and Steph Curry

Shane Battier

Well, you know, that brings up the the Paris Olympics. All right. For my money, the last two games against Serbia and France, those were the two greatest games I've ever witnessed. And I mean, just with everything that was on the line for USA basketball, for the everything on the line. For Steph and LeBron, and everybody who was on that team, and the drama, you couldn't script that any better.

And, you know, I had to laugh because. I was very proud that I was always the inbounds passer at the end of games. And you sort of know who really, really wants the ball by how they break towards the ball to get open. And you know the guys that, you know, kind of get hooked, you know, and say, Oh, I couldn't get open, I couldn't get open, you know.

And there was one dude who was running to the ball, and his name was Stephen The Man Curry at that game. And that's what struck me about those games. That he was he was running to the ball in the most stressful situation that I had seen in basketball that I could really ever remember. He was just on a different plane. And you might get numb to it because you see it every single day, you know, but I don't think you get numb to it. But you just have to pinch yourself when you watch a performance like that on that stage, knowing the stakes at hand, knowing everything that went into this. I mean, just talk about those two games and those moments for you and for the team.

Steve Kerr

First of all, I refer to him as Stephen motherfucking Curry. Because that's you know, that's the first thing that comes to mind when when you see him do this stuff. It's like, holy shit. I mean, nobody has that mindset. Nobody. You know, including, like you said, on a team of some of the all-time greats, they were all deferring to him, you know? And he was chasing the ball. But it's the most amazing mindset that I've ever seen.

Michael had a similar mindset, but Michael's mindset appeared to be more out of a desire to kill the opponent, to you know, to just stick the knife in and twist it. And Steph's is more the joy of the act of shooting a ball. And that's what makes it so beautiful to watch Steph. It's like he's an artist out there and he loves what he does so much. And there's this flow and this grace and beauty. Combined with this incredible competitive desire and confidence to just take every shot and not worry about the repercussions. So the two games… the Serbia game was the greatest basketball game I've ever been involved with. We were lucky to win, but we had to make every play and our guys did it down the stretch. It was incredible. And the France game was about Steph and finishing the game with those four threes in the last couple minutes. And just iconic and incredible to be part of that and have that memory.

Ravi Gupta

Everyone will remember exactly where they were when he hit the night and night, when he hit those shots. I mean, it's crazy. The other thing in Court of Gold, I think they had the mic on when you hugged him. And I think you said, You're the finest human being I've ever had the pleasure to be around or something, right? And I mean, like, what an incredible compliment. You think about what those words mean. Think about the people you've been around in your life. Like, and it's so incredible to hear that. And then I was at Iggy's retirement or Iggy's Jersey retirement. And the speech that Steph gave, it was one of the best speeches I've ever heard in any setting of my life.

Like, truly. And it was the amount of preparation around a personalization It was, you could kind of see, like the rest of us see him. He's a basketball player. He's an amazing person, but you see him on the court, right? That was one of the times I got to see him celebrate a friend. And somehow he knew the right words to say that were the most meaningful things to say to someone. And the gift he gave Andre that day was something that I think was it was genuinely beautiful. And so I got like a tiny hint of some of the things that you see every day in this guy.

Steve Kerr

Yeah, it's just his emotional intelligence, his genuine love for people, his compassion. His awareness of his power as a person without trying to gain from it, you know, but by trying to give and to make people happy and comfortable, knowing full well that how much he impacts people. He's an amazing human being. I did have to qualify it with my family when I got home. You know, I meant he's the best human being after you guys and my mom.