Oh, Come-On....Klay IS A STAR. What does a guy have to do...leap over MT EVEREST...He has proven himself to be one of the greatest shooters/players of ALL TIME. Candidate for 1st TEAM ALL-NBA/HOFer every season, in my book. Last season was one his best ever; most TREB/g , to boot. So, he had a bad playoffs after an erratic, experimental, ing season. Reminds of getting on Barnes his last season. Without Klay's second-half performance we wouldn't have even been in the playoffs. Kerr has to coach... Nuff said.
Worst move they could make. Kerr now has a veteran he can play into the ground as soon as the team hits a rough spot. Its back to the bench, Jonathan Kuminga.
I am flumoxxed-so much I can't even spell the word correctly. What is a 1-year contract to compete in training camp? Maybe that's common. But when I saw 1-year contract I didn't think "and he'll get cut at the end of training camp."
At any rate, the risk is real, more real than it was yesterday. If this vet makes the roster, I am confident Kerr will at some point sacrifice JK minutes to run a downside veteran into the ground. Which, to me, is a step in the wrong direction.
Just noticed that Chris Paul is a GTD on the injury list for the first preseason game on 10/7. Anyone heard about an injury? It seems a little early for load management.
I think many fans don't have a realistic impression of how good Denver really is. With Jamal Murray healthy, this is a team that can beat you many ways and they showed it last year. No one could topple them. Are the Warriors really going to give them a run for their money during this season with their main issues of trying to squeeze an aging core, develop some chemistry outside of the starters, and simply develop and integrate their bench into the mix. I like what they've got but going deep into the playoffs is an exhausting endeavor and can anyone of their stars be better than they have been? That is a lot to hope for even for Steph.
Denver is a very good team indeed. They are not unbeatable. Before The Punch last preseason, a lot of pundits and fans thought the Dubs could repeat. We were lucky to make the playoffs. The Clippers have been considered a strong contender for the past few seasons; they can't stay healthy. A number of teams have a good shot at beating Denver because there are so many variables. We won't know until they play the games.
Every team is beatable by every team in the league. However, the formula for winning is not something one could look up and apply. So many factors enter the discussion that discussion becomes endless and tedious. None of our players would bet their net worth on winning the championship this season. My point is that a team like Denver should be favored to repeat if their health holds up, but they get little credit on this board. Even a team like Sacto who remained in the upper echelons of the West all year, never letting down, would have a higher repeat rate than given credit for by fans here. The mentality is if we beat them once, we're going to do it again. We got lucky, but the odds don't really favor us any longer. It will be hard for us to go all the way again. We've also seen a weakening in the coaching. It was glaring last season.
Gotcha. Yes, Denver should be the favorite. It's always hard to go all the way but I think this Dubs team has a solid shot. But the road to the Larry probably goes through Denver.
An NBA season is a grueling affair. If you are healthy and have a high ceiling, you will improve your game. Does Klay have a high ceiling at this point in his career? Improvement areas can be efficiency scoring and shooting. He knows how to shoot. Can he pass and rebound better than his current career marks? This is very doubtful without a sacrifice to his scoring. He's a shooter. He is what he is and change is not in his future. Scoring is his role on the team. 20ppg is his level. Does he really need to improve on this?
I don't even think Klay has to be a great passer. He does need to move the ball and move without the ball. If he does, the ball will find him and he'll score plenty.
I switched to NBA channel to see what was on for the 1st time in months & it happened to be a Warriors-Jazz game from last December. After about 5 minutes the screen has a message that I'm not allowed to watch due to some contractual legality ,,,,, for a game from 9 months ago. WTF
RE: poll. I think I might have selected 'all of the above' if it were an option. The only one I might waver on is C -- but even that seems at least partially true to me. It was too much to hope that Klay might do an Iguodala and come off the bench, both to allow the youngster to develop and to provide some needed firepower in that second unit.
The rest seem self-evident to me. I love Klay and when he's going good, he's elite. But he's always been streaky and now seems more willing to force it (and take bad shots) than I remember in the prime dynasty years. And his contract... well, let's just say that if we didn't love the guy so much, he wouldn't be making that kind of money. Overall, if he can move the ball a little and trust that it will find him again, and if he would catch and shoot and quit trying to get his own shot, the whole system would work much better.
I never said anything skeptical about Kuminga... in fact, I'm quite optimistic... I'm just pointing out that this is what Kerr is supposed to be saying going into the season, and doesn't necessarily mean anything... but it gets me hyped regardless.
Unless the Warriors are the defending champion, generally the national media puts them up on a pedestal and predicts that they've got the best player in the league and they're the favorite to repeat.
Yeah, seems like last year other teams locked in against the Dubs. I'm expecting Denver to get that treatment, at least to start the year, and hopefully everyone will snooze when playing the old washed up former dynasty from the Golden State.
Maybe. I certainly believe that there are still some hard feelings out there from the thrashing teams took at the hands of the Durant-era Ws. That team was so loaded; it was traumatizing to some of these folk.
That said, I think fans and pundits alike see the Ws as a dangerous but aging squad that carries a significant injury risk. Trading JP for CP didn't help with that. But if this team will buy in and stay relatively healthy, no one is going to want to face them in the playoffs.
I think "legendary" would be more appropriate. I can't imagine anyone with the confidence to do that ever again. Not in the 3rd quarter. It's one thing to be up 50-60 but a 22 point lead in today's game is about 5 minutes worth of comeback time lol.
I mean, Dubs were up 15 with 2 minutes left in the 3rd quarter of game 1, and BOS won by 12, so that was a 27 point swing in less time that happened 2 weeks earlier.
On a side note, I find it absolutely fascinating that the greatest bigs in NBA history were almost ubiquitously good to great passers. Kareem/Shaq/Garnett/Wilt/Malone/Hakeem/Russel/Jokic all had serious playmaking chops (the main exceptions were Duncan/Robinso/Norwitzki).
Still, considering that 8/11 GOAT bigs can pass the rock (73%), I’m genuinely confused why passing isn’t considered as fundamental an NBA big skill as rebounding/screening/rim protection.
I believe most of those guys became good passers because of how dominant they were. They were physically overwhelming offensive forces that drew attention, they got the ball a lot and over lots of reps learned to read the floor at a high level. Kareem, Wilt and Russell got a lot of those reps in high school and college when everything was post based. They were pretty good their rookie years in NBA. Hakeem, Shaq and Duncan got a lot better through their NBA careers.
Part of it today, is everything is PNR based vs post based. So most young C's look to catch and finish. It's not until NBA where they think about reading the floor on the short roll and kicking to shooters.
I responded to this in a different comment. Duncan for me slightly misses the mark to get into the "good passer" category while Shaq barely gets across the finish line (so there isn't too much of a difference between them).
"I'd also like to defend Shaq's inclusion on the list of good passers. Peak Shaq In 2000/2001 (imho) had a 19 AST% which is excellent given the lack of distributionary opportunities that constituted the typical norm for 2000's centers. Peak Duncan similarly had a 19 AST%, however he was a PF so that's less impressive. Furthermore, I value Shaq's passing more simply because he was able to have a similar ratio of good to bad passes WHILE playing making decisions a lot faster. If Shaq touches the ball, he's either scoring or assisting or passing the ball out to circulate. He isn't going to waste time holding onto the ball and I appreciate that because it allows for your teammates to punish other players cheating onto you (and this is reflected in Shaq's vastly superior creation numbers compared to Duncan)."
Hmmm... I haven't watched a ton of Shaq and Duncan so I probably shouldn't weigh in, but based purely on the numbers this seems off... Duncan had more assists per 36 on a better AST/TO ratio, they both peaked at 19% AST%, but Shaq only did that for 2 season, while Duncan had 4 seasons over 18%, and ended up with a career 16.4% vs Shaq's 13.9%, and did so with a lower USG%. Also Duncan was a center for the second half of his career, and part of the first half as well... Shaq's AST/TO ratio is less than 1, I don't see how he's a good passer at all...
Makes no sense to pass out of the double team simply to reset the offense in the 24-second shot clock era. It makes sense to pass out of the double team to take advantage of the player left open or to put the opponent in rotation. So, yes, they (the top passing bigs) were passing to feed their teammates.
To begin with, I think we need to re-examine the binary “good to great passer” vs. “exception” categories you’ve set up. To wit, career assists per 36:
3.2 Duncan
2.6 Shaq
1.4 Moses
None of these guys really belong on a list with Jokic (career 7.8 dimes per 36, and 10.5 last season) but Moses and Shaq *definitely* do not.
But as a rule, absolutely, the vast majority of all-time-great NBA players have been good-to-great passers. That applies to bigs as well as smalls and wings.
Firstly, I wasn't talking about Moses Malone, I was talking about Karl Malone. I should have been more clear.
Secondly, they belong in the list if the list constitutes good to great passers. Shaq/Karl belong in the good passers side of the spectrum (with Shaq barely making the cut) while someone like Jokic exists in the great passers side of the spectrum (at the high end).
I'd also like to defend Shaq's inclusion on the list of good passers. Peak Shaq In 2000/2001 (imho) had a 19 AST% which is excellent given the lack of distributionary opportunities that constituted the typical norm for 2000's centers. Peak Duncan similarly had a 19 AST%, however he was a PF so that's slightly less impressive. Furthermore, I value Shaq's passing more simply because he was able to have a similar ratio of good to bad passes WHILE playing making decisions a lot faster. If Shaq touches the ball, he's either scoring or assisting or passing the ball out to circulate. He isn't going to waste time holding onto the ball and I appreciate that because it allows for your teammates to punish other players cheating onto you (and this is reflected in Shaq's vastly superior creation numbers compared to Duncan).
"As a rule, absolutely, the vast majority of all-time-great NBA players have been good-to-great passers. That applies to bigs as well as smalls and wings."
I'm curious, I'm going to look into this to see if its accurate.
Ah, got it, should have asked you to specify. Since most of the other guys on the list are Cs, I assumed Moses. The Mailman dropped 3.4 dimes per 36 over his career, a good sight more than Moses, who IIRC was a fairly legendary ballhog (elite scorer and rebounder, too, but once he had it anywhere near the paint, it wasn’t coming out).
Still, I have a really hard time putting *Karl* Malone or Shaq in a category of passer that excludes The Big Fundamental. To me, they’re all in the “good, not great” category.
It might be that passing is a solid proxy for BBIQ and that is the key trait that many of the all-time greats shared. Duncan wasn't really a passer but certainly was a very smart player.
I don't think so. Wilt was a track star, and Bill Russell was not bulky and he was plenty fast. Besides, passing out of the post doesn't necessarily require foot speed.
Oh, Come-On....Klay IS A STAR. What does a guy have to do...leap over MT EVEREST...He has proven himself to be one of the greatest shooters/players of ALL TIME. Candidate for 1st TEAM ALL-NBA/HOFer every season, in my book. Last season was one his best ever; most TREB/g , to boot. So, he had a bad playoffs after an erratic, experimental, ing season. Reminds of getting on Barnes his last season. Without Klay's second-half performance we wouldn't have even been in the playoffs. Kerr has to coach... Nuff said.
*....experimental ''coaching'' season....
PS...what happened to the edit button....
Warriors sign Rudy Gay to a 1-year deal: https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/nba/golden-state-warriors/rudy-gay-contract/1658023/
Camp invite
Worst move they could make. Kerr now has a veteran he can play into the ground as soon as the team hits a rough spot. Its back to the bench, Jonathan Kuminga.
It's just a camp invitation, not a guaranteed roster spot. If we are considering adding another wing, it doesn't hurt to take a look at him in camp.
I am flumoxxed-so much I can't even spell the word correctly. What is a 1-year contract to compete in training camp? Maybe that's common. But when I saw 1-year contract I didn't think "and he'll get cut at the end of training camp."
At any rate, the risk is real, more real than it was yesterday. If this vet makes the roster, I am confident Kerr will at some point sacrifice JK minutes to run a downside veteran into the ground. Which, to me, is a step in the wrong direction.
Welp, I figured that was going to happen eventually. I think its a good signing, he's friends with just about everyone on the team.
That's just what they need, more same-age friends. Who cares if the young wings around the league run them out of their shoes?
Just noticed that Chris Paul is a GTD on the injury list for the first preseason game on 10/7. Anyone heard about an injury? It seems a little early for load management.
GTD>Geriatric Timeout Dancer?! I guess(?) he can still shimmy for Steph on the Hardwood Classics senior dance team 🤷🏽♂️
I think many fans don't have a realistic impression of how good Denver really is. With Jamal Murray healthy, this is a team that can beat you many ways and they showed it last year. No one could topple them. Are the Warriors really going to give them a run for their money during this season with their main issues of trying to squeeze an aging core, develop some chemistry outside of the starters, and simply develop and integrate their bench into the mix. I like what they've got but going deep into the playoffs is an exhausting endeavor and can anyone of their stars be better than they have been? That is a lot to hope for even for Steph.
We'll see what happens once they run into a top smallball team.
Who would that be?
Warriors with everyone healthy/available.
Everyone knows the Nuggets are awesome.
Referencing my post earlier?
Denver definitely deserves to be the favorite but repeating is also incredibly hard to do.
I don't think anyone here takes them lightly. But what would be the fun in posting about how it's hopeless (it's not)?
Denver is a very good team indeed. They are not unbeatable. Before The Punch last preseason, a lot of pundits and fans thought the Dubs could repeat. We were lucky to make the playoffs. The Clippers have been considered a strong contender for the past few seasons; they can't stay healthy. A number of teams have a good shot at beating Denver because there are so many variables. We won't know until they play the games.
Every team is beatable by every team in the league. However, the formula for winning is not something one could look up and apply. So many factors enter the discussion that discussion becomes endless and tedious. None of our players would bet their net worth on winning the championship this season. My point is that a team like Denver should be favored to repeat if their health holds up, but they get little credit on this board. Even a team like Sacto who remained in the upper echelons of the West all year, never letting down, would have a higher repeat rate than given credit for by fans here. The mentality is if we beat them once, we're going to do it again. We got lucky, but the odds don't really favor us any longer. It will be hard for us to go all the way again. We've also seen a weakening in the coaching. It was glaring last season.
Gotcha. Yes, Denver should be the favorite. It's always hard to go all the way but I think this Dubs team has a solid shot. But the road to the Larry probably goes through Denver.
An NBA season is a grueling affair. If you are healthy and have a high ceiling, you will improve your game. Does Klay have a high ceiling at this point in his career? Improvement areas can be efficiency scoring and shooting. He knows how to shoot. Can he pass and rebound better than his current career marks? This is very doubtful without a sacrifice to his scoring. He's a shooter. He is what he is and change is not in his future. Scoring is his role on the team. 20ppg is his level. Does he really need to improve on this?
I don't even think Klay has to be a great passer. He does need to move the ball and move without the ball. If he does, the ball will find him and he'll score plenty.
Warriors family may be growing? I haven't gotten too into the WNBA yet, but this could be just what I need to spur the fandom: https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/38501062/warriors-deal-bring-wnba-expansion-team-bay-area-sources-say
Yeessss.
Now Steph just needs to talk Caitlin into taking that extra covid year...
Excellent, I will enjoy watching our WNBA team dominate. Next step, invest alongside the Niners in Leeds United.
EXCELLENT
I think Marcus Thompson got the scoop: https://theathletic.com/4902855/2023/09/26/warriors-wnba-bay-area/
I switched to NBA channel to see what was on for the 1st time in months & it happened to be a Warriors-Jazz game from last December. After about 5 minutes the screen has a message that I'm not allowed to watch due to some contractual legality ,,,,, for a game from 9 months ago. WTF
Lol. The NBA - it’s FANtastic!
RE: poll. I think I might have selected 'all of the above' if it were an option. The only one I might waver on is C -- but even that seems at least partially true to me. It was too much to hope that Klay might do an Iguodala and come off the bench, both to allow the youngster to develop and to provide some needed firepower in that second unit.
The rest seem self-evident to me. I love Klay and when he's going good, he's elite. But he's always been streaky and now seems more willing to force it (and take bad shots) than I remember in the prime dynasty years. And his contract... well, let's just say that if we didn't love the guy so much, he wouldn't be making that kind of money. Overall, if he can move the ball a little and trust that it will find him again, and if he would catch and shoot and quit trying to get his own shot, the whole system would work much better.
I voted both B and D
https://warriorswire.usatoday.com/2023/09/26/steve-kerr-reveals-excitement-for-jonathan-kuminga/
Is it what he's supposed to say? Yeah. But main line that @#$@# straight into my veins.
I never said anything skeptical about Kuminga... in fact, I'm quite optimistic... I'm just pointing out that this is what Kerr is supposed to be saying going into the season, and doesn't necessarily mean anything... but it gets me hyped regardless.
Steph completing* sidequests
https://x.com/thewarriorstalk/status/1706717456784671173?s=46&t=axFNM8-E0eUBlHUbIgeXJQ
Edit: *more. Hole-in-one, walk off putt to win Golf Champion, Apple tv Documentary... What other sidequests has he unlocked this off-season?!
Makes sense. Dude must have pretty much completed the main quest at this point in his career.
Still has to collect at least one more ring to beat LeBig Boss
And complete his legendary armor set.
Going back to collect the extra hidden loot he skipped…
Steph, talking to Ayesha that evening:
I don't like sand...
https://youtu.be/2tLf1JO5bvE?si=mW3KU9wJsL0NTfXf
Listening to podcast, I'm enjoying all the Denver hype. Why? Cause I think the league is forgetting just how good the warriors are when locked in.
Pretty much everything that could go wrong last year went wrong yet they still were competitive in the 2nd round.
Unless the Warriors are the defending champion, generally the national media puts them up on a pedestal and predicts that they've got the best player in the league and they're the favorite to repeat.
Then let's just say it's fun to be rooting a team that's the "underdog" again.
There are levels to this and obviously the dubs are a contender but not the ones with the target on their back.
I always like for us to be the underdog. it gets Steph’s juices going.
https://media.giphy.com/media/ZnAARh6IBOjV0rjevJ/giphy.gif
Yeah, seems like last year other teams locked in against the Dubs. I'm expecting Denver to get that treatment, at least to start the year, and hopefully everyone will snooze when playing the old washed up former dynasty from the Golden State.
Klaymatic37 when dubs are under dogs: that's right, sleep on the dubs. We got this!
Klaymatic37 when dubs are defending champs: bring it on, we got this!
Maybe. I certainly believe that there are still some hard feelings out there from the thrashing teams took at the hands of the Durant-era Ws. That team was so loaded; it was traumatizing to some of these folk.
That said, I think fans and pundits alike see the Ws as a dangerous but aging squad that carries a significant injury risk. Trading JP for CP didn't help with that. But if this team will buy in and stay relatively healthy, no one is going to want to face them in the playoffs.
In Celebrini We Trust
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig8QvVDvESU
Can't wait to watch the 2024 version of this documentary with CP3 narrating about how he finally won his first championship.
The "ring me" celebration only up 22 in the middle of the 3rd freaking quarter of Game 6 is still insane to me.
You misspelled "epic"
I think "legendary" would be more appropriate. I can't imagine anyone with the confidence to do that ever again. Not in the 3rd quarter. It's one thing to be up 50-60 but a 22 point lead in today's game is about 5 minutes worth of comeback time lol.
I mean, Dubs were up 15 with 2 minutes left in the 3rd quarter of game 1, and BOS won by 12, so that was a 27 point swing in less time that happened 2 weeks earlier.
"We figured you out and there ain't a damn thing you can do about it"
BWAHAHAHAHAHA
sure that works
Mike Dunleavy Jr. Speaks to Media Ahead of 2023-2024 Season | Golden State Warriors: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF40_NB24eg
Coach Steve Kerr Speaks to Media Ahead of the 2023-24 Season | Golden State Warriors: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA7mm5bpl9I
(This is what the quotes yesterday came from)
On a side note, I find it absolutely fascinating that the greatest bigs in NBA history were almost ubiquitously good to great passers. Kareem/Shaq/Garnett/Wilt/Malone/Hakeem/Russel/Jokic all had serious playmaking chops (the main exceptions were Duncan/Robinso/Norwitzki).
Still, considering that 8/11 GOAT bigs can pass the rock (73%), I’m genuinely confused why passing isn’t considered as fundamental an NBA big skill as rebounding/screening/rim protection.
I believe most of those guys became good passers because of how dominant they were. They were physically overwhelming offensive forces that drew attention, they got the ball a lot and over lots of reps learned to read the floor at a high level. Kareem, Wilt and Russell got a lot of those reps in high school and college when everything was post based. They were pretty good their rookie years in NBA. Hakeem, Shaq and Duncan got a lot better through their NBA careers.
Part of it today, is everything is PNR based vs post based. So most young C's look to catch and finish. It's not until NBA where they think about reading the floor on the short roll and kicking to shooters.
To be fair, being a good to great passer is generally true among the all timers for every position
Why is Shaq a good passer but Duncan isn't?
I responded to this in a different comment. Duncan for me slightly misses the mark to get into the "good passer" category while Shaq barely gets across the finish line (so there isn't too much of a difference between them).
"I'd also like to defend Shaq's inclusion on the list of good passers. Peak Shaq In 2000/2001 (imho) had a 19 AST% which is excellent given the lack of distributionary opportunities that constituted the typical norm for 2000's centers. Peak Duncan similarly had a 19 AST%, however he was a PF so that's less impressive. Furthermore, I value Shaq's passing more simply because he was able to have a similar ratio of good to bad passes WHILE playing making decisions a lot faster. If Shaq touches the ball, he's either scoring or assisting or passing the ball out to circulate. He isn't going to waste time holding onto the ball and I appreciate that because it allows for your teammates to punish other players cheating onto you (and this is reflected in Shaq's vastly superior creation numbers compared to Duncan)."
Hmmm... I haven't watched a ton of Shaq and Duncan so I probably shouldn't weigh in, but based purely on the numbers this seems off... Duncan had more assists per 36 on a better AST/TO ratio, they both peaked at 19% AST%, but Shaq only did that for 2 season, while Duncan had 4 seasons over 18%, and ended up with a career 16.4% vs Shaq's 13.9%, and did so with a lower USG%. Also Duncan was a center for the second half of his career, and part of the first half as well... Shaq's AST/TO ratio is less than 1, I don't see how he's a good passer at all...
Most bigs weren't passing to feed their teammates. They were passing to avoid double teams in the post.
Makes no sense to pass out of the double team simply to reset the offense in the 24-second shot clock era. It makes sense to pass out of the double team to take advantage of the player left open or to put the opponent in rotation. So, yes, they (the top passing bigs) were passing to feed their teammates.
And the best might have been Bill Walton. Oh what might have been...
Absolutely, Bill Walton was fantastic and imho seriously underrated.
He was still very, very good, even with the injury limitations.
To begin with, I think we need to re-examine the binary “good to great passer” vs. “exception” categories you’ve set up. To wit, career assists per 36:
3.2 Duncan
2.6 Shaq
1.4 Moses
None of these guys really belong on a list with Jokic (career 7.8 dimes per 36, and 10.5 last season) but Moses and Shaq *definitely* do not.
But as a rule, absolutely, the vast majority of all-time-great NBA players have been good-to-great passers. That applies to bigs as well as smalls and wings.
Firstly, I wasn't talking about Moses Malone, I was talking about Karl Malone. I should have been more clear.
Secondly, they belong in the list if the list constitutes good to great passers. Shaq/Karl belong in the good passers side of the spectrum (with Shaq barely making the cut) while someone like Jokic exists in the great passers side of the spectrum (at the high end).
I'd also like to defend Shaq's inclusion on the list of good passers. Peak Shaq In 2000/2001 (imho) had a 19 AST% which is excellent given the lack of distributionary opportunities that constituted the typical norm for 2000's centers. Peak Duncan similarly had a 19 AST%, however he was a PF so that's slightly less impressive. Furthermore, I value Shaq's passing more simply because he was able to have a similar ratio of good to bad passes WHILE playing making decisions a lot faster. If Shaq touches the ball, he's either scoring or assisting or passing the ball out to circulate. He isn't going to waste time holding onto the ball and I appreciate that because it allows for your teammates to punish other players cheating onto you (and this is reflected in Shaq's vastly superior creation numbers compared to Duncan).
"As a rule, absolutely, the vast majority of all-time-great NBA players have been good-to-great passers. That applies to bigs as well as smalls and wings."
I'm curious, I'm going to look into this to see if its accurate.
I thought you meant Jeff Malone... ;-)
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/malonje01.html
Ah, got it, should have asked you to specify. Since most of the other guys on the list are Cs, I assumed Moses. The Mailman dropped 3.4 dimes per 36 over his career, a good sight more than Moses, who IIRC was a fairly legendary ballhog (elite scorer and rebounder, too, but once he had it anywhere near the paint, it wasn’t coming out).
Still, I have a really hard time putting *Karl* Malone or Shaq in a category of passer that excludes The Big Fundamental. To me, they’re all in the “good, not great” category.
Damn... I hadn't even bothered to look up those guys' assist stats. Makes much more sense to me seeing Duncan having a higher assist rate than Shaq.
It might be that passing is a solid proxy for BBIQ and that is the key trait that many of the all-time greats shared. Duncan wasn't really a passer but certainly was a very smart player.
And I tend to think Duncan's assist numbers feel a little low for his passing ability...
I don't think so. Wilt was a track star, and Bill Russell was not bulky and he was plenty fast. Besides, passing out of the post doesn't necessarily require foot speed.
I agree, there is ample opportunity for playmaking out the post and playmaking off the pick and roll.