Does anyone else think losing Tyus Jones for Marcus Smart is a downgrade? The Grizz were really good with Jones, who’s a better PG than Smart IMO. Smart’s a better defender but the Grizz were already elite defensively with Jones. I know they supposedly got Smart for the leadership/culture but I think they got worse, not better.
actually the upgrade is over dillon brooks, and is a big one. hes gonna start or close with bane and morant ...he and bane are good defenders, can shoot the 3...i like this trade for them
Smart is definitely a big upgrade over Brooks, that's something I hadn't considered. I still think the team is worse than it would have been before Ja gets back, but if Smart can play with Ja enough minutes it could be interesting. Not sure what their backup point situation is now though...
They may pick someone up, but Bane is also a very solid playmaker. Tyus is a very solid PG, but I think the main reason they have never missed Ja too much is that they give Bane a lot more to do and he is up for it.
Basically agreed. I think Smart has lost a step defensively and has low key kinda sucked the last couple years. He’s basically Dray if Dray were 6’-3” and could not guard bigs.
I’m not that high on Jones, either (tbh, I think Ty Jerome is a pretty similar player) but there’s something to be said for continuity.
Pretty much what I was thinking. They seemed to be better all-around with Jones running the team when Ja was out the past 2 years. No highlight reels but a solid player, who is 2 years younger than Smart. I don't see the reason for Memphis to even be involved in this trade. Unless Jones wanted out.
Been less and less of a baseball fan as the years have gone but I hope Ohtani leaves the Angels (just swept by the Dodgers) and is able to sign with the Giants. Ohtani in San Francisco would be like when Bonds signed with San Francisco.
The sweep felt good. We(Dodgers) are the most likely team to sign Ohtani, but the Giants should/will probably enter the fray. Ohtani is a rarer kind of player than Bonds, I feel. That guy can hit them out of the park and pitch at 100mph. Personlly, I think they should spend the money on some positional players. Need a 3B, SS, and CF, plus better relievers.
Giants really turned their season around. Now it's the Dodgers turn to climb back on top(hoping). Urias is coming back.
For the Dodgers or the Angels? I remember the WS with LAD/HOU from a few years back. Don’t see what that has to do with Ohtani?
I don’t understand baseball the way I understand football and basketball but it’s sad to me that a team with two MVP type players hasn’t won a championship by now, especially now that Trout is out of his prime. Says a lot about how important great pitching depth is beyond one ace
I haven't seen mentioned that BOS made a great move from FRP perspective. They upgrade the 35th pick in this year's draft (basically a high 2nd round pick) to MEM's 25th, and also roll the dice that the Dubs will gift them a good pick next year.
Some people felt that Smart had lost a step this year, and if the Celtics had come to the same conclusion, this makes a lot of sense. They'll need a backup PG, and god knows whether KP will have any impact at all, but if they were moving on, this is a great reward.
Kinda feel for Marcus Smart. He flops too much, but he plays hard and got so close to winning it all with that team. Now he's on the Grizzlies, all because of Brogdon's verkakte arm.
Mainly for my own posterity. Here's my 2023 draft board for the Warriors. Really focusing on fit for the team as presently constituted with an eye on future upside.
Bufkin - In the off chance he falls. Great guard prospect. On offense I love the mix of his first step burst, plus the herky jerky game that really
Leonard Miller - Great versatile PF prospect. The defensive versatility, rebounding, ball handling are enough to be a very playoff winning 4 even if he’s never a great shooter. Could be a better version of Aaron Gordon.
Jaime Jacquez - Has a very high floor as a hustling role player forward who can screen, pass, defend and would figure out the Warrior system very quickly. I’m intrigued if he can become a solid 3P shooter and be able to leverage that into attacking closeouts with his high level footwork. Either getting easy post touches or drawing fouls.
Trayce Jackson Davis - Has a lot of what has made Xavier Tillman a solid playoff rotation big man immediately. Perimeter switchability with some rim protection, rebounding and good passing/screening instincts on O. He’s a much bouncier athlete and a scoring threat. The ability to do the dribble hand off game while being a real threat to dribble and dunk. Could see his best case scenario as like 85-90% of Bam Adebayo.
Derek Lively - I like the mix of the defensive upside with a bit of passing ability. I think that lack of scoring instinct really caps the upside. Good, not great prospect IMO.
Dariq Whitehead - I really like that shooting stroke. If the injuries looked OK long term I’d have him higher than Lively for sure, and could see the case to taking a long term shot.
Olivier Maxence Prosper - Great size for a wing. 6’8 220 and 7’ wingspan. Good feet for defense. Good athlete and good feel for cutting, transition and finishing. Not a bad shooter. Could be an elite defense guy who can hit some shots.
Jordan Hawkins - Likely to be a very solid 3P shooter. But he could be the rare movement shooter who also could be a very solid defender. Those are typically excellent starters.
Colby Jones - This type of guard can play a long time. Really good D. Solid passer and decision maker. Can hit some shots. Just no burst. Think he’s an average starter at best, and more likely a solid backup.
Brandon Podziemski - The shot is good. The rebounding and steal rate means he plays hard and seemingly has some sneaky athleticism. Could he be a Luke Kennard who at least contributes something on D? Maybe. But I’m also pretty down on him. He’s really small. His standing reach is a little smaller than Stephs. Got blown by a lot on D AND didn’t really take anyone off the dribble. He just seems like a weird combo to me.
Kris Murray - He is likely to be a decent rotation forward, and could help soon, but I’m not sure there’s much there beyond that. Don’t see him being a high level defender or shooter.
Other young guys I like, but don’t think we’ll take:
Nnaji - Huge frame. Great athlete and motor. Will be a basic offensive player, but he could have more versatility on D then your Clint Capela types.
Cissoko - Great size for a wing with some passing ability
Rupert - Great wingspan. Plays really hard on D.
Kukevski - Wouldn’t be shocked if we took him. Great stroke for a stretch big. Like a Kelly Olynyk probably never a starter, but likely a long time valuable rotation guy. He has true C height and length 6’11/7’2.5” which is usually not the case for this type of stretch big.
Really like this analysis. I think I would personally put Hawkins a few places higher if I made my own, but I can't be assed to consume that many scouting reports.
Thank you! I do really like to slip in at my leisure. I've always loved reading draft content. I wouldn't say I'm a good scout, but as noted below have just been really interested in it for a long time and have noted some markers on players and how they've turned out.
I don't do a whole lot more than that, TBH. I do look at some video just to get a feel for guys moves and what they can do, but not crushing tape. Mainly I have been a voracious draft content reader for a long time, and have a pretty good memory for how certain guys were viewed coming out, their statistical profile and how they turned out.
I think that's all melded into something of a point of view, but very loosely held.
I am a big fan of Jackson-Davis and players like him in this draft. Maybe not as high long-term upside - which you rarely get at 19th anyway - but it looks like there are several guys who can bang, defend and bring complementary offensive skills pretty far down the draft this year, and its an opportunity to get one of those 8-12 mil a year will-play-15-years-in-the-league guys that do all the grunt work for good teams (the kind GS was painfully "short" on this season, past Looney). Miller, Nnaji, Prosper the same. I expect this deep availability of similar role-players is why several teams are trying to trade down. I'd really hope GS can figure out a way to grab a 2nd round pick this year and take a flyer on someone like Sonogo or Tshiebwe for the same reasons.
Appreciate your insight! With less than 24 hours from the draft, a name that has disappeared from discussion is Kris Murray. Admittedly I have a very ‘untrained eye’ but was curious, why did DNHQ, as well as many draft experts sour on him a bit? He seemed like good possibility at 19 in May. If you read many of his scouting reports including KOC’s, he sounds like a very good prospect with minimal weakness (strong defender, likes to battle inside, smart, solid outside shot, ready to contribute), yet he’s mocked at 27. Everyone knew he was old back in May, did he have bad workouts? Based on your analysis, he sounds like he’s a just ‘safe’ pick that would be uninspiring as MDJ’s first pick.
I agree he doesn't have a lot of weaknesses, but I am also not sure there are a lot of strengths. OK tools. OK shooter. OK passer. He definitely knows how to play and there's value in that.
I look at making 33.5% from 3 (although on very good volume), 73% from the line and doing that with a slow release and say he's got some work to be an average shooter in the NBA. While he could be a solid defender, is he ever anyone who's logging lots of minutes as a team's best defender against wings?
I just look and think the upside is someone like Grant Williams, but he's not as good a prospect as Williams was coming out.
Well, if the Warriors are terrible next season, I'd rather the Celtics benefit from that than the Grizzlies. So I'd call the Warriors a winner in that deal.
Wonder if the Wizards decline Muscala's team option.
What a day for Brogdon - gone, then back, now the starter?
Did NOT see Marcus Smart leaving the Celtics. He definitely had a down year and looked slow in the playoffs. Bold move by the Celtics, but I am not a KP believer.
40 Mil is a lot to leave on the table there (enough that that declined option made an article in Forbes). I'm assuming they have a deal in the works where he gets 4 or 5 years at a lower number. At his age, he probably wants a final five year deal with them - maybe something in the 130-150 mil range with some guarantees, and Milwaukee needs cap space.
The Grizzlies are sending 2023 and 2024 first-round picks to the Celtics, sources tell ESPN. Grizzlies are sending No. 25 on Thursday night and 2024 pick via Golden State for Smart.
Today's the last day to vote on the draft board! https://dnhq.draft-vote.xyz/
Immortalize your vote so we can laugh at you next year!
Does anyone else think losing Tyus Jones for Marcus Smart is a downgrade? The Grizz were really good with Jones, who’s a better PG than Smart IMO. Smart’s a better defender but the Grizz were already elite defensively with Jones. I know they supposedly got Smart for the leadership/culture but I think they got worse, not better.
actually the upgrade is over dillon brooks, and is a big one. hes gonna start or close with bane and morant ...he and bane are good defenders, can shoot the 3...i like this trade for them
Yeah, I think that's the main thing. Solid upgrade on Brooks while doing a lot of what Tyus did as a backup PG.
Smart is definitely a big upgrade over Brooks, that's something I hadn't considered. I still think the team is worse than it would have been before Ja gets back, but if Smart can play with Ja enough minutes it could be interesting. Not sure what their backup point situation is now though...
They may pick someone up, but Bane is also a very solid playmaker. Tyus is a very solid PG, but I think the main reason they have never missed Ja too much is that they give Bane a lot more to do and he is up for it.
Basically agreed. I think Smart has lost a step defensively and has low key kinda sucked the last couple years. He’s basically Dray if Dray were 6’-3” and could not guard bigs.
I’m not that high on Jones, either (tbh, I think Ty Jerome is a pretty similar player) but there’s something to be said for continuity.
yeah..but draymond can't make 2 threes per game..
Pretty much what I was thinking. They seemed to be better all-around with Jones running the team when Ja was out the past 2 years. No highlight reels but a solid player, who is 2 years younger than Smart. I don't see the reason for Memphis to even be involved in this trade. Unless Jones wanted out.
Holy Shit. I'm starting to believe the hype on VW:
https://youtu.be/tavSad_ypXY?t=120
My e-Golf does run great.
Been less and less of a baseball fan as the years have gone but I hope Ohtani leaves the Angels (just swept by the Dodgers) and is able to sign with the Giants. Ohtani in San Francisco would be like when Bonds signed with San Francisco.
The sweep felt good. We(Dodgers) are the most likely team to sign Ohtani, but the Giants should/will probably enter the fray. Ohtani is a rarer kind of player than Bonds, I feel. That guy can hit them out of the park and pitch at 100mph. Personlly, I think they should spend the money on some positional players. Need a 3B, SS, and CF, plus better relievers.
Giants really turned their season around. Now it's the Dodgers turn to climb back on top(hoping). Urias is coming back.
Angels are the MLB version of the Warriors. Just waiting to figure out how to win more than one fluke title
Did you forget the stolen WS by the cheatin' Astros? Dodger fans haven't.
For the Dodgers or the Angels? I remember the WS with LAD/HOU from a few years back. Don’t see what that has to do with Ohtani?
I don’t understand baseball the way I understand football and basketball but it’s sad to me that a team with two MVP type players hasn’t won a championship by now, especially now that Trout is out of his prime. Says a lot about how important great pitching depth is beyond one ace
Dodgers during the WS vs. Houston. They were stealing signs and had a system worked out to relay them back to the batter. Yep.
Nothing to do with Ohtani. The Angels lacked the pitching maybe a support team. I don't really follow the Angels.
Marcus Smart being traded to the Grizzlies means double the opportunity for him to flop into/injure the Dubs. Boo!
that trade was canceled
Source? The earlier Malcom Brogdan trade fell apart, perhaps that is what you are thinking of.
Was it?
I haven't seen mentioned that BOS made a great move from FRP perspective. They upgrade the 35th pick in this year's draft (basically a high 2nd round pick) to MEM's 25th, and also roll the dice that the Dubs will gift them a good pick next year.
Some people felt that Smart had lost a step this year, and if the Celtics had come to the same conclusion, this makes a lot of sense. They'll need a backup PG, and god knows whether KP will have any impact at all, but if they were moving on, this is a great reward.
Maybe we can try to get our pick back from Boston now?
Kinda feel for Marcus Smart. He flops too much, but he plays hard and got so close to winning it all with that team. Now he's on the Grizzlies, all because of Brogdon's verkakte arm.
Celtics roster: Brown, Tatum, Brogdon, White, Porzingis, Horford, Williams III, G. Williams, Pritchard, Hauser.
So what's the Celtics new starting lineup now that they have Porzingis and lost Smart? Is it gonna be Brogdon, Brown, White, Tatum, and Porzingis?
White - JB - JT - Porzingis - Time Lord
Brogdon's arm must really be cooked for the Clippers to nix that trade.
Even when your hair bleeds green ,,, there are no guarantees in Boston.
This sounds like a great sports manga storyline :D
There's a reason Memphis is a blues town.
Mainly for my own posterity. Here's my 2023 draft board for the Warriors. Really focusing on fit for the team as presently constituted with an eye on future upside.
Bufkin - In the off chance he falls. Great guard prospect. On offense I love the mix of his first step burst, plus the herky jerky game that really
Leonard Miller - Great versatile PF prospect. The defensive versatility, rebounding, ball handling are enough to be a very playoff winning 4 even if he’s never a great shooter. Could be a better version of Aaron Gordon.
Jaime Jacquez - Has a very high floor as a hustling role player forward who can screen, pass, defend and would figure out the Warrior system very quickly. I’m intrigued if he can become a solid 3P shooter and be able to leverage that into attacking closeouts with his high level footwork. Either getting easy post touches or drawing fouls.
Trayce Jackson Davis - Has a lot of what has made Xavier Tillman a solid playoff rotation big man immediately. Perimeter switchability with some rim protection, rebounding and good passing/screening instincts on O. He’s a much bouncier athlete and a scoring threat. The ability to do the dribble hand off game while being a real threat to dribble and dunk. Could see his best case scenario as like 85-90% of Bam Adebayo.
Derek Lively - I like the mix of the defensive upside with a bit of passing ability. I think that lack of scoring instinct really caps the upside. Good, not great prospect IMO.
Dariq Whitehead - I really like that shooting stroke. If the injuries looked OK long term I’d have him higher than Lively for sure, and could see the case to taking a long term shot.
Olivier Maxence Prosper - Great size for a wing. 6’8 220 and 7’ wingspan. Good feet for defense. Good athlete and good feel for cutting, transition and finishing. Not a bad shooter. Could be an elite defense guy who can hit some shots.
Jordan Hawkins - Likely to be a very solid 3P shooter. But he could be the rare movement shooter who also could be a very solid defender. Those are typically excellent starters.
Colby Jones - This type of guard can play a long time. Really good D. Solid passer and decision maker. Can hit some shots. Just no burst. Think he’s an average starter at best, and more likely a solid backup.
Brandon Podziemski - The shot is good. The rebounding and steal rate means he plays hard and seemingly has some sneaky athleticism. Could he be a Luke Kennard who at least contributes something on D? Maybe. But I’m also pretty down on him. He’s really small. His standing reach is a little smaller than Stephs. Got blown by a lot on D AND didn’t really take anyone off the dribble. He just seems like a weird combo to me.
Kris Murray - He is likely to be a decent rotation forward, and could help soon, but I’m not sure there’s much there beyond that. Don’t see him being a high level defender or shooter.
Other young guys I like, but don’t think we’ll take:
Nnaji - Huge frame. Great athlete and motor. Will be a basic offensive player, but he could have more versatility on D then your Clint Capela types.
Cissoko - Great size for a wing with some passing ability
Rupert - Great wingspan. Plays really hard on D.
Kukevski - Wouldn’t be shocked if we took him. Great stroke for a stretch big. Like a Kelly Olynyk probably never a starter, but likely a long time valuable rotation guy. He has true C height and length 6’11/7’2.5” which is usually not the case for this type of stretch big.
Really like this analysis. I think I would personally put Hawkins a few places higher if I made my own, but I can't be assed to consume that many scouting reports.
Hammy (I can call you by your first name, right?), you should be writing draft content articles for DNHQ.
Your posts are excellent. I learn more from you and Beli than I would have thought possible.
Thank you! I do really like to slip in at my leisure. I've always loved reading draft content. I wouldn't say I'm a good scout, but as noted below have just been really interested in it for a long time and have noted some markers on players and how they've turned out.
I'm not saying this to be humble. I'm not even close to hammystyle on draft stuff, I mostly just regurgitate information that I read elsewhere.
I don't do a whole lot more than that, TBH. I do look at some video just to get a feel for guys moves and what they can do, but not crushing tape. Mainly I have been a voracious draft content reader for a long time, and have a pretty good memory for how certain guys were viewed coming out, their statistical profile and how they turned out.
I think that's all melded into something of a point of view, but very loosely held.
Perhaps, but I don't ever bother to go look at other stuff. So, I learn anyway.
I very much enjoy both of your posts, whatever the source.
I am a big fan of Jackson-Davis and players like him in this draft. Maybe not as high long-term upside - which you rarely get at 19th anyway - but it looks like there are several guys who can bang, defend and bring complementary offensive skills pretty far down the draft this year, and its an opportunity to get one of those 8-12 mil a year will-play-15-years-in-the-league guys that do all the grunt work for good teams (the kind GS was painfully "short" on this season, past Looney). Miller, Nnaji, Prosper the same. I expect this deep availability of similar role-players is why several teams are trying to trade down. I'd really hope GS can figure out a way to grab a 2nd round pick this year and take a flyer on someone like Sonogo or Tshiebwe for the same reasons.
I will be amazed if Lively falls to us.
I tried looking up Kukevski and got nothing lol. Is this Tristan Vukcevic?
LOL, yes. I think my mind did a quick mix with his name and Posevskii
Appreciate your insight! With less than 24 hours from the draft, a name that has disappeared from discussion is Kris Murray. Admittedly I have a very ‘untrained eye’ but was curious, why did DNHQ, as well as many draft experts sour on him a bit? He seemed like good possibility at 19 in May. If you read many of his scouting reports including KOC’s, he sounds like a very good prospect with minimal weakness (strong defender, likes to battle inside, smart, solid outside shot, ready to contribute), yet he’s mocked at 27. Everyone knew he was old back in May, did he have bad workouts? Based on your analysis, he sounds like he’s a just ‘safe’ pick that would be uninspiring as MDJ’s first pick.
I agree he doesn't have a lot of weaknesses, but I am also not sure there are a lot of strengths. OK tools. OK shooter. OK passer. He definitely knows how to play and there's value in that.
I look at making 33.5% from 3 (although on very good volume), 73% from the line and doing that with a slow release and say he's got some work to be an average shooter in the NBA. While he could be a solid defender, is he ever anyone who's logging lots of minutes as a team's best defender against wings?
I just look and think the upside is someone like Grant Williams, but he's not as good a prospect as Williams was coming out.
He is on most Mock draft lists at high teens to low 20's. He will definitely be a possibility if he's available at 19 if he is the BPA.
Announce Mike Muscala to the Warriors already!!
No. He's going to the Wizards in the Celtics, Wizards, Grizzlies three-team trade.
My mistake Yoshi. Got my pasty looking dudes confused. I thought it was Luke Kennard. wizards can keep Muscala
Well, if the Warriors are terrible next season, I'd rather the Celtics benefit from that than the Grizzlies. So I'd call the Warriors a winner in that deal.
Wonder if the Wizards decline Muscala's team option.
What a day for Brogdon - gone, then back, now the starter?
Did NOT see Marcus Smart leaving the Celtics. He definitely had a down year and looked slow in the playoffs. Bold move by the Celtics, but I am not a KP believer.
Yah, KP feels like a penny-stock at this point.
Three-time All-Star forward Khris Middleton has declined his $40 million player option with the Milwaukee Bucks to become a free agent
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1671730267227148289
40 Mil is a lot to leave on the table there (enough that that declined option made an article in Forbes). I'm assuming they have a deal in the works where he gets 4 or 5 years at a lower number. At his age, he probably wants a final five year deal with them - maybe something in the 130-150 mil range with some guarantees, and Milwaukee needs cap space.
Washington is completing a three-way deal with Boston and Memphis that will send guard Tyus Jones to the Wizards, sources tell ESPN.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1671728593515212800
The Wizards are acquiring Danilo Gallinari and Mike Muscala in the deal too, sources said.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1671736199910760448
The Celtics are sending the 35th pick on Thursday to Wizards in the deal
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1671733112324214785
This is wacky…
Celts get: Zinger, 2 late FRP (give Smart, early SRP)
Wash gets: Jones, 1x early SRP (give Zinger)
Mem gets: Smart (give Jones, 2 late FRP)
Good move for the Celtics, necessary move for the Grizz, WTF move for the Wizards, which appears to be their MO.
Yeah, Washington has so far traded their best two players for… basically nothing. I’d argue both those guys were better than Gobert…
I could do that, and I'd work for less than what they're paying their GM!
The Grizzlies are sending 2023 and 2024 first-round picks to the Celtics, sources tell ESPN. Grizzlies are sending No. 25 on Thursday night and 2024 pick via Golden State for Smart.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1671730676037562369
The Celtics are trading Marcus Smart to the Grizzlies as part of deal, sources tell ESPN.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1671729621526630400
Whoa x2
Whoa
Marcos Inteligente going to Memphis. Could have probably had him a couple years back for Wiseman
Smart for Wiseman is a pretty balanced trade, at least by last name synergy.
I remember that rumor...sigh.