After watching the team against the Lakers and San Antonio I think Oubre belongs in the starting lineup.
He's a big disruptor defensively, and the Warriors at their best are a menacing defensive team. Knocking down wide open threes at Iguodala rate is just fine. The reason he takes so many shots is you have to take what the defense gives you.
As for the Jazz game, what really stands out in the box score is zero steals for the starters.
How do Green, Wiggins, Oubre, and Curry (and Wiseman/Looney) all end up with zero steals? That suggests we did little to disrupt the Jazz.
> Same goes with Kelly Oubre. By far the most disastrous new acquisition
I want to read this article, I really do. Stuff like this really turns me off though. It's the kind of hyperbolic click-baity stuff that I subscribe here to be able to avoid. That's not to make some grand statement or anything - I love it here and I love your articles! But this was so melodramatic (>and wrong<) my eyes practically rolled my eyes back into my head.
We all know Oubre can and must play better. But he's the magnet for Warriors fans being disappointed and it's disappointing to see such shallow summation of his contributions to the Warriors repeated authoritatively in this article.
I’m aware of Oubre’s issues so far in the starting lineup as I’ve discussed extensively on video.
Practically speaking, he was an NBA starter all last year, he’s the starter now, he’s in a contract year, and if you carelessly demote him to the bench and give up on him after 16 games, you are bound to piss him off and demoralize him, and depending on the temperature of the locker room, potentially piss off lots of others.
The idea that he has to earn his way off the bench I do not think will fly. I don’t see that as a way to get the best out of him. He is clearly working very hard. He expends a lot of effort on defense. He may not pass well but this looks like inexperience at playmaking not raw selfishness. To bench him quickly.... have I mentioned this is a contract year?
Agree with most of this - it's not all doom and gloom and us not being great is probably better long-term if we manage to get an okay FRP (10-20 range). However, we also need to be careful in managing Curry and to a lesser extent Draymond. This year, I've seen more frustration from Curry than I've seen for most of his career. He's turning 33 in a couple of months - this is the beginning of the post-prime period of his career and he knows it. He'll probably still give superstar level performance as he is that good, but he's not the Curry from 2015-2018.
Obviously, prioritizing learning from Wiseman is required. However, I do not know why we're treating Kelly Oubre as some foundational player. He's just not a very good basketball player. Offensively he's a disaster due to his tunnel vision (though I do think he'll end up shooting 33-34% from 3). Defensively too he makes a lot of errors (off-ball lapses, bad rotations) despite eye-catching highlights sometimes. He has his uses undoubtedly, but he's not some foundational piece where we play through a lot of his warts - he's just not good enough or talented enough to earn that privilege. We need to bench him for a shooter (be it Lee or Mulder or maybe even Bazemore). That is a much better balanced team and should be okay defensively. Plus, we'll be able to use Wiseman and Draymond with far better spacing (think Spurs game dunks with teams either leaving a shooting or letting Wiseman dunk). This is the future role for Wiseman so should start developing him in this role right now. Further, Steph will get more shots - he has an absurdly low usage rate with the starting lineup (22% IIRC) which makes no sense considering our dearth of offensive options.
One other struggle I’m having: There is no fun in a Championship or quit mentality. This team has shown flashes of what they could be. They could definitely compete for and in the playoffs.
We believe was fun! Run TMC was fun! This team could be fun. They aren’t going to be a title favorite but it doesn’t mean they shouldn’t compete. They will have a better chance of winning next year if they play to win this year, the basketball gods have always played that way :).
A good dose of realism goes a long way! Good article. GSW always play the long game (not quite as long as the Spurs - thank goodness for that), so I believe the intent was always to work up Kelly and Jim to get them ready to be part of a contending group. But we are approaching the moment where its time for the next objective, get the motion offense cranked back up and ready for Klays return.
Dray said only a few days ago he wasn't sure of the identity of the team. The identity of the warriors (since explosion of SC30) has always been strength in numbers via motion offense. Its time to make the necessary changes to enable the team to get back to the ideals that made it a success and in doing so reclaim its identity.
I’m not super smart but here’s my thought. If the goal is to help prepare Wiseman to start with Steph, Klay, Wiggins, and Dray; wouldn’t it help him prepare for that eventuality by playing him in a starting lineup now that reasonably replicates that starting five? In other words, start him with another shooter and have Oubre come off the bench?
Not only fans want to win, players do, too. I believe even the coaches want to win. But you can't win if you don't execute in any sport. You can do many things well, but if your game doesn't come together all at once, there will be problems. The only complete player that executes and excels every game is Curry. Wiggins, while having nice stat lines, doesn't seem to work that well with Curry. He often comes alive with his 3 ball with the 2nd unit, but he never pushes past his average. A player like that is not worth the money he is paid. He doesn't seem to know what winning basketball is like and played on a dysfunctional Twolves team where he was the man along with KAT.
Oubre is a guy with a winning intensity and athleticism but without execution. A PF in a SG body. It's not working on the Warrior. No passing, no nuance to his game. Sheer energy.
Draymond, a master tactician, without the fundamental skills of a good basketball player. His game is hanging by a shoestring.
Looney, a defensive presence without hops and an underachieving mentality.
Wiseman, a kid without experience, but with a good future ahead of him.
Paschall, undersized, but an intense player who is improving each season.
The rest of the team has too small a sample size to give future consideration to. However, some may be able to be plugged into the Warriors bench with some more acquisitions and tweaks. I don't want to demean them as they come out with energy and play with heart. Some are better than others.
Kerr is a coach who knows what he is after. This may be a detriment as well as a help as he seems slow to react and adjust these days. None of us can know if he is able to get this team to be consistent. That may lie with the players themselves.
The draft is the one place where the Warriors should be able to build for their future. The next one is VERY important for the team and they can't afford any mistakes. With Klay back, the team will be better but still a work in progress. Their finances will also dictate some of the direction they will take. Remember how bad the Lakers became before they brought in Lebron and AD? The Warriors will not be like that team and should compete for the bottom playoff spots no matter what happens. However, I think few fans and players and coaches find that kind of position, acceptable. They need a kind of re-tooling and that is a very hard place to be in after their championship run and the memories it brings back. Greatness is ephemeral. It is something that is perishable and can never be made static, except maybe in Lebron. lol.
> “Whether he knows it or not, he’s a focal point of our team and organization, and there’s no way to learn what he needs to learn unless he’s put into these situations. Like Steve said, he’s having to get a master’s degree in one year.”
My working theory: If they wanted to, the Warriors could win every game, but are choosing not to so they can finish with the 11th best record and keep their pick.
Fact fact: Wiggins is now at 44% on 3’s if you toss the first two games (41% if you don’t.) I think he should be shooting more.
Oubre also waste stephs minutes and doesn't take advantage of his gravity by missing so many shots, play him with the second unit and have him help rebound
After watching the team against the Lakers and San Antonio I think Oubre belongs in the starting lineup.
He's a big disruptor defensively, and the Warriors at their best are a menacing defensive team. Knocking down wide open threes at Iguodala rate is just fine. The reason he takes so many shots is you have to take what the defense gives you.
As for the Jazz game, what really stands out in the box score is zero steals for the starters.
How do Green, Wiggins, Oubre, and Curry (and Wiseman/Looney) all end up with zero steals? That suggests we did little to disrupt the Jazz.
Regarding Wiseman/Oubre and as much as heat Loon gets, here are NETRTG stats for two units with most minutes played: starters w/ Loon or w/ Wiseman
Player______MP___OFFRTG__DEFRTG____NETRTG
Loon_______26_____133.9_____78.3_____+55.6
Wiseman__161______93.5____113.8_____-20.3
https://go.nba.com/v4c5
I would almost take a chance on smiley right now as covington has way underachieved for the Blazers so far.
> Same goes with Kelly Oubre. By far the most disastrous new acquisition
I want to read this article, I really do. Stuff like this really turns me off though. It's the kind of hyperbolic click-baity stuff that I subscribe here to be able to avoid. That's not to make some grand statement or anything - I love it here and I love your articles! But this was so melodramatic (>and wrong<) my eyes practically rolled my eyes back into my head.
We all know Oubre can and must play better. But he's the magnet for Warriors fans being disappointed and it's disappointing to see such shallow summation of his contributions to the Warriors repeated authoritatively in this article.
Two cents, etc.
I’m aware of Oubre’s issues so far in the starting lineup as I’ve discussed extensively on video.
Practically speaking, he was an NBA starter all last year, he’s the starter now, he’s in a contract year, and if you carelessly demote him to the bench and give up on him after 16 games, you are bound to piss him off and demoralize him, and depending on the temperature of the locker room, potentially piss off lots of others.
The idea that he has to earn his way off the bench I do not think will fly. I don’t see that as a way to get the best out of him. He is clearly working very hard. He expends a lot of effort on defense. He may not pass well but this looks like inexperience at playmaking not raw selfishness. To bench him quickly.... have I mentioned this is a contract year?
Agree with most of this - it's not all doom and gloom and us not being great is probably better long-term if we manage to get an okay FRP (10-20 range). However, we also need to be careful in managing Curry and to a lesser extent Draymond. This year, I've seen more frustration from Curry than I've seen for most of his career. He's turning 33 in a couple of months - this is the beginning of the post-prime period of his career and he knows it. He'll probably still give superstar level performance as he is that good, but he's not the Curry from 2015-2018.
Obviously, prioritizing learning from Wiseman is required. However, I do not know why we're treating Kelly Oubre as some foundational player. He's just not a very good basketball player. Offensively he's a disaster due to his tunnel vision (though I do think he'll end up shooting 33-34% from 3). Defensively too he makes a lot of errors (off-ball lapses, bad rotations) despite eye-catching highlights sometimes. He has his uses undoubtedly, but he's not some foundational piece where we play through a lot of his warts - he's just not good enough or talented enough to earn that privilege. We need to bench him for a shooter (be it Lee or Mulder or maybe even Bazemore). That is a much better balanced team and should be okay defensively. Plus, we'll be able to use Wiseman and Draymond with far better spacing (think Spurs game dunks with teams either leaving a shooting or letting Wiseman dunk). This is the future role for Wiseman so should start developing him in this role right now. Further, Steph will get more shots - he has an absurdly low usage rate with the starting lineup (22% IIRC) which makes no sense considering our dearth of offensive options.
One other struggle I’m having: There is no fun in a Championship or quit mentality. This team has shown flashes of what they could be. They could definitely compete for and in the playoffs.
We believe was fun! Run TMC was fun! This team could be fun. They aren’t going to be a title favorite but it doesn’t mean they shouldn’t compete. They will have a better chance of winning next year if they play to win this year, the basketball gods have always played that way :).
A good dose of realism goes a long way! Good article. GSW always play the long game (not quite as long as the Spurs - thank goodness for that), so I believe the intent was always to work up Kelly and Jim to get them ready to be part of a contending group. But we are approaching the moment where its time for the next objective, get the motion offense cranked back up and ready for Klays return.
Dray said only a few days ago he wasn't sure of the identity of the team. The identity of the warriors (since explosion of SC30) has always been strength in numbers via motion offense. Its time to make the necessary changes to enable the team to get back to the ideals that made it a success and in doing so reclaim its identity.
Looking at GSOM and here, it's hard for me to believe how many Warriors fans are going negative right now.
I’m not super smart but here’s my thought. If the goal is to help prepare Wiseman to start with Steph, Klay, Wiggins, and Dray; wouldn’t it help him prepare for that eventuality by playing him in a starting lineup now that reasonably replicates that starting five? In other words, start him with another shooter and have Oubre come off the bench?
Not only fans want to win, players do, too. I believe even the coaches want to win. But you can't win if you don't execute in any sport. You can do many things well, but if your game doesn't come together all at once, there will be problems. The only complete player that executes and excels every game is Curry. Wiggins, while having nice stat lines, doesn't seem to work that well with Curry. He often comes alive with his 3 ball with the 2nd unit, but he never pushes past his average. A player like that is not worth the money he is paid. He doesn't seem to know what winning basketball is like and played on a dysfunctional Twolves team where he was the man along with KAT.
Oubre is a guy with a winning intensity and athleticism but without execution. A PF in a SG body. It's not working on the Warrior. No passing, no nuance to his game. Sheer energy.
Draymond, a master tactician, without the fundamental skills of a good basketball player. His game is hanging by a shoestring.
Looney, a defensive presence without hops and an underachieving mentality.
Wiseman, a kid without experience, but with a good future ahead of him.
Paschall, undersized, but an intense player who is improving each season.
The rest of the team has too small a sample size to give future consideration to. However, some may be able to be plugged into the Warriors bench with some more acquisitions and tweaks. I don't want to demean them as they come out with energy and play with heart. Some are better than others.
Kerr is a coach who knows what he is after. This may be a detriment as well as a help as he seems slow to react and adjust these days. None of us can know if he is able to get this team to be consistent. That may lie with the players themselves.
The draft is the one place where the Warriors should be able to build for their future. The next one is VERY important for the team and they can't afford any mistakes. With Klay back, the team will be better but still a work in progress. Their finances will also dictate some of the direction they will take. Remember how bad the Lakers became before they brought in Lebron and AD? The Warriors will not be like that team and should compete for the bottom playoff spots no matter what happens. However, I think few fans and players and coaches find that kind of position, acceptable. They need a kind of re-tooling and that is a very hard place to be in after their championship run and the memories it brings back. Greatness is ephemeral. It is something that is perishable and can never be made static, except maybe in Lebron. lol.
SOLUTION: Get Lebron!
https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/ostler/article/James-Wiseman-caught-eye-of-Warriors-assistant-15894599.php
> “Whether he knows it or not, he’s a focal point of our team and organization, and there’s no way to learn what he needs to learn unless he’s put into these situations. Like Steve said, he’s having to get a master’s degree in one year.”
OT Just ran across this a few minutes ago. Might be a way to get a limited # of fans back in their seats. https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30770833/heat-use-coronavirus-sniffing-dogs-screen-fans
My working theory: If they wanted to, the Warriors could win every game, but are choosing not to so they can finish with the 11th best record and keep their pick.
Fact fact: Wiggins is now at 44% on 3’s if you toss the first two games (41% if you don’t.) I think he should be shooting more.
Dub, you're seriously overreacting, and you need to calm down.
Oubre also waste stephs minutes and doesn't take advantage of his gravity by missing so many shots, play him with the second unit and have him help rebound